1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,040 Speaker 1: Gooday, thanks for joining us on the body and soul 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: podcast called Healthy Ish. I'm your host of Felicity Harley. 3 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: How did you sleep last night? Were you really hot? 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: Perhaps you are hungover? Perhaps he had a late night. Well, 5 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,159 Speaker 1: my guest today is going to help you manage all 6 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,319 Speaker 1: of the above. I'm joined by Nicole Moyan. She's the 7 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: director of science and clinical Research at eight Sleep and 8 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 1: holds her PhD in physiology from Stanford University. She's also 9 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: worked at various health tech companies like Fitbit and Whoop, 10 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: so she knows a lot about sleep and she's going 11 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: to help us manage our sleep quality and our quantity 12 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: during the festive season. And also she gives some great 13 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: tips on how to set up your room for the 14 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: hot summer nights. Make sure you're listening to our sister podcast, 15 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: Extra healthy Ish, where we talk more about circadian rhythms 16 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: and the key factors affecting sleep. You can grab that 17 00:00:51,560 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: one wherevergy podcasts. Nicole, Nice to have you joining us 18 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: from the US. How are you? 19 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. I'm doing well. How are you? 20 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: Yeah? I'm good well, actually, thankfully I had a good 21 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: night sleep last night. How about you did you, yes, 22 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: I did. Actually, as a sleep researcher, do you feel, 23 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: you know, pressure to have a good night sleep or 24 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: how's your how do you feel about approaching your night sleep? 25 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 2: I feel since working out of sleep Company, I feel 26 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,639 Speaker 2: much more aware of my sleep, and I think also 27 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 2: we're constantly looking at our own data as well and 28 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: talking about it, so then you're you're it's the first 29 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 2: thing that you look at in the morning and the 30 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 2: first thing you reflect on and think about. So it's 31 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 2: definitely changed my perspective. But I don't know if I 32 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 2: feel pressure to have a good night sleep. I just 33 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 2: know that it's essential to performing well the next day. 34 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: Do you have any non negotiable habits when it comes 35 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: to sleep that perhaps you didn't have four and now 36 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: you actually you know in your job you're more focused on. 37 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's like what I've really noticed in tracking my 38 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 2: data is that if I'm more of like an early bedtime, 39 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 2: early riser person, and I would try to stay up 40 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 2: with other people but then still be up early, and 41 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 2: it just I finally realized from looking at my data 42 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,399 Speaker 2: that if I don't go to sleep like between nine 43 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 2: and ten, I usually miss my a good chunk of 44 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: deep sleep, and I don't seem to recover that later 45 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,239 Speaker 2: in the night. Even if I sleep later in the morning, 46 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 2: I just miss it, and so I have like I 47 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 2: just it's a bad night of sleep for me. So 48 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 2: now I've been a lot stricter about like, Okay, I 49 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 2: need to go to sleep at nine pm, even though 50 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: it feels really early a. 51 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: Lot of times, what time do you get out of bit. 52 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 2: Between five and six? 53 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: So it's absolutely yeah. 54 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's been my like my newer non negotiable. 55 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, talk to us about managing slight during this particular 56 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: time of year, because li's light not I mean, you 57 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: do want to hang out with friends, you might have 58 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: a few drinks, then you're sleeping. What do you how 59 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: do we do? How do we manage? 60 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think it's tricky and it depends on the 61 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 2: person and what their holiday festivities look like. I don't 62 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 2: know if you're familiar with the term social jet lag 63 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 2: that's come Yeah, you've heard of it. Okay, it's come 64 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 2: about in the last couple of years where if you 65 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 2: know your body is really needs this specific rhythm. We're like, 66 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 2: we pretend like we're not like little kids, but we 67 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 2: really do better on a schedule, just like little kids do. 68 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 2: And if we keep that schedule, our body becomes very 69 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: attuned to it, and all the functions within your body 70 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 2: work really well, your circuitian rhythm. And the second we 71 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 2: try to deviate from that, all these things in your 72 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 2: body change, right and trying to adapt to it. And 73 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 2: so that's true for sleep. So if you stay up 74 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 2: one to two hours later, it's almost like you traveled 75 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 2: time zones to a new place, which is why they 76 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: call it social jet lag, because now you're trying to 77 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 2: stay up later, but then you're still your body is 78 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 2: still on a different time zone. So that's one thing 79 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 2: that can if you can try to instead of staying 80 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 2: up late, if you're not a late night person, meet 81 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 2: people for coffee or a run or something during the 82 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 2: day so you can kind of keep your routine. That's helpful. 83 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: Easier said than done. Alcohol You've probably heard most of them, 84 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 2: but try to mix a drink of water with a 85 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 2: drink of a glass of wine or a beer, and 86 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 2: then having electrolytes can really help you. So drinking electrolytes 87 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 2: before you go to sleep and then potentially when you 88 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 2: wake up as well, because alcohol dehydrates you. That can 89 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 2: really help. And then eating before you drink too can 90 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 2: be helpful to help absorb that alcohol. 91 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: Can we just go back to the first one. I 92 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: want to ask you a question about that that's really interesting. 93 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: So our body basically can get used to a certain 94 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: time frame as to how we sleep or routine and schedule. Yeah, 95 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: and how quickly does it fall apart? Is it after? 96 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: You know, if you have one light night on a 97 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 1: Thursday and one late night on a Friday, is that 98 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 1: is the weekend gone basically? Or And how long does 99 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: it take to recover? 100 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's there's some research showing that even just 101 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 2: one hour of sleep debt. So if you're off by 102 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 2: one hour, let's say you stay up an hour later 103 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: and you wake up at your normal time, so you 104 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: lose an hour of sleep that night, it can take 105 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 2: up to four days to recover that one hour of 106 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: sleep debt, So it can it can add up pretty quickly. 107 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 2: So yeah, to answer your question, it just depends on 108 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 2: the person and whether you can recover that leak with 109 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 2: a nab or something else. But generally it compounds pretty fast. 110 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 1: What about sleep ins? Are they useful? Can they be 111 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: more detrimental. You know, if you do have a late 112 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: night and you want to sleep, you better just you know, 113 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: you automatically wake up at say six thirty, if that's 114 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: what time you would, and you know often you're well myself, 115 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: well like okay, just try and go back to sleep, 116 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 1: and then I do, and then I wake up at 117 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: eight thirty? Is can that be more detrimental? You better 118 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: get am I better getting up at six thirty and 119 00:05:57,760 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: just getting on with my day even though I might 120 00:05:59,160 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: feel like crap. 121 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think no, if you're going to feel like crap, 122 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 2: I think sleep in and getting that extra sleep is good, right, 123 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 2: But in general, trying to keep your body on that 124 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 2: same rhythm, it is going to be really helpful. 125 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. Rhythm is based now down here in Australia, not 126 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: where you are in Chicago. It's pretty damn hot right now, 127 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: and I think that can be well, that can break 128 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: heavic on you sleep at night. Talk to us about 129 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: optimal sleeping temperatures and how we can things we can 130 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:29,679 Speaker 1: do to sleep better in the heat. 131 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. So this is a great question, and there's a 132 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 2: lot of research showing that sleeping in the heat is 133 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 2: actually much worse for you than sleeping in the cold. 134 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 2: And I think a lot of that is because after 135 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 2: a certain point, you can't like remove more clothing or bedding, 136 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 2: you're kind of stuck, Whereas when it's cold you can 137 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 2: keep adding more layers or more blankets. And so generally 138 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: that there's a wide range of comfortable temperatures from seventeen 139 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 2: C all the way to twenty eight C. Twenty eight 140 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 2: C is like if you have no clothing and bedding, 141 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 2: that is deemed to be the comfortable temperature if you're 142 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 2: sleeping naked, and there's studies doing that there. So fourteen 143 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 2: to nineteen C is pretty comfortable if you are where 144 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 2: like normal bedding clothing, having light layers is going to 145 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 2: be helpful for you to regulate temperature throughout the night. 146 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 2: And there's actually research since you're in Sydney, coming out 147 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 2: of University of Sydney from Olliej's lab. I don't know 148 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 2: if you're familiar with him, but he's really working on 149 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 2: climate change and heat related topics, and he's shown that 150 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 2: having a pedestal or ceiling fan in the room can actually, 151 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 2: like on medium setting, can really help you stay cool 152 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 2: and you can keep you from using the AC until 153 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: you reach about twenty six twenty seven C. So instead 154 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 2: of using the AC earlier in the night, you can 155 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 2: turn on a fan that will help you stay cool 156 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 2: as well. And then of course there's how heat camass 157 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 2: capacity mattresses or like what we have a temperature regulating 158 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 2: mattress which can also help you stay cool throughout the night. 159 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: Is sleepy and I say bad? Is it? Can it 160 00:07:58,520 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: affect your sleep? 161 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 2: No, it's fine. I haven't seen anything. I mean, I 162 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 2: haven't seen anything that would impact your sleep negatively unless 163 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 2: it's really really cold. But even then, sleeping in the 164 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 2: cold hasn't hasn't been shown to be detrimental, unless it's 165 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 2: like causing you to wake up more often because it's 166 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:15,679 Speaker 2: too cold. 167 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: Now you've got a pretty exciting job. I mean, you're 168 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: in the research. You're in the forefront of, well, the 169 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: development of slate research a part of it. Actually, that's 170 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: really great, great study out of Sydney UNI. What else 171 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: is out there? What is there anything exciting you research 172 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: into slate that you're specifically across or reading about. 173 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:39,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we are. I mean we've been pioneering modifying 174 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 2: the temperature of your bed based on the sleep stage 175 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 2: that you're in. And this came initially out of some 176 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 2: labs at Northwestern that showed that having cooler temperatures earlier 177 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 2: in the night can improve your deep sleep. So they 178 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 2: boost your deep sleep, and naturally, your core body temperature 179 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 2: is going down in the beginning of the night and 180 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:57,959 Speaker 2: then it starts to get warmer before you wake up, 181 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: and as it drops down, that's when you get most 182 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 2: of your deep sleep. So we've essentially modified now we 183 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 2: did talked to what temperature you are, what sleep stage 184 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 2: you're in real time, and then modify the temperature of 185 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 2: your bed to help promote more time in each sleep stage. 186 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 2: So that's really what we've been working on pioneering at 187 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 2: the forefront of sleep. 188 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: Nice. It was lovely having you on Healthyah Nicole, Thank 189 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 1: you for joining us. 190 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. 191 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: Well friends. Looks like it takes a few days to 192 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: catch up on that late night sleep or that hangover. 193 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:40,319 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it takes me a few days hangover front. Anyway, 194 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: if you did enjoy this chat, you can rate and 195 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: review this episode, subscribe to this podcast anything else, hit 196 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: Body and Soul dot com dot follows on socials. You 197 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: can DM me at Felicity Halle check in our print edition, 198 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: which is out in your local Sunday paper, and until tomorrow, 199 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: stay healthy.