WEBVTT - Episode 7: Did Judy See Bronwyn’s Body? 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.680 Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bromwin contains course 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:08.840 language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:43.000 you by me Headley Thomas and The Australian. This is 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:47.200 the most important episode in the Bromwan podcast series so far. 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:51.800 It is going to disclose a major new development in 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:56.680 this investigation into Bromwin's disappearance. It is so serious it 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:00.680 should prompt Senior Detective Nigel Warren or an another member 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:04.040 of the Unsolved Homicide unit in Sydney to beat a 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:06.360 path to the door of a woman from whom you'll 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:11.240 hear shortly. Her name is Judy Singh. She is sixty 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:14.480 nine years old, a Korean nurse who retired a few 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.880 years ago and she now lives with her daughter's family 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:22.720 in northern New South Wales. Our first conversation was a 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:27.280 recorded interview over the telephone on Tuesday, June eleven. Here 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:29.280 is some of what Jude told me then. 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:32.959 And this night I was sitting up and I saw 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:35.080 the car pool out at the end of the street 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:38.479 when the light was on in the car. There's very 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:43.119 squeaky brakes on that car, and he drove very slowly 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:46.959 along the street, but he had left the car light 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:51.240 on and I could see directly into the car, and 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:55.280 I had a small lantern on the balcony rail and 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:58.320 he kind of looked up this night and I saw 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:01.920 this what looked to be like a mummy in the 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:06.800 back of the car, and I thought, gott it be 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:10.760 going late at night with you know, something that looked 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:13.600 like I just called it a mummy. And I've said 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:17.560 this to my son so many times about this, and 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:20.960 I thought, well, even if he was taking out belongings, 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.840 you wouldn't make it look like a body, do you 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:25.359 know what I mean? 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:31.320 So when you say a mummy, it was wrapped in something. 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:37.920 Yes, it was either very pale green or cream, not white, 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:40.959 but maybe like a bed sheet or something like that. 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:44.840 And I wanted the police to know that because I 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:48.720 thought the pressure of that, the weight of that on 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:51.920 the door might have been what was keeping the light on. 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:54.680 I don't know if that happens in an old falcon. 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:57.639 It was a square falcon, and I remember it well. 0:02:57.639 --> 0:02:59.360 It always had squeaky brakes. 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.120 Are you clear on the date that you saw what 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:03.639 you believe? 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:06.440 There's a couple of weeks after my birthday. 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:12.400 Jude's birthday is May one. Bromwin disappeared two weeks and 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:14.880 one day later, May sixteen. 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.760 I know that he had something in that car that 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:26.240 resembled a body, just a body shape in the back seat. Oh, 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:29.320 it was late. It was late at night. The kids 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:33.640 were in bed, two older children, and this being in 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:36.040 my head kept saying it looked like a mummy, and 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:40.960 I thought, oh shit, that when I heard that, you know, 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:46.040 she had been reported missing, that that might have ben 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:50.160 there mummy. You know, That's what sticks in my mind 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:52.040 about the shape of what I saw. 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:57.760 God, I mean, I know what I visualize when I 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:01.400 think of a mummy, but I don't want to put 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:03.880 words in your mouth. Can you describe it? 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:10.680 Well? Aroundish around his head with this light green or 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:16.800 beige covering on it. It was long. Wasn't a surfboard 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.360 because the surfboard would have sharp edges. I've been through 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:24.080 that in my head as well. It had to be 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:30.320 something round, like a head or a ball. But then 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:36.440 it was long and you know covered. That's what I remember. 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:41.920 Where was the head of the mummy riding the corner 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:45.640 on the back behind the passinger seat in the back. 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.600 The head of the mummy was in the corner, pressing 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.760 up against the door. She was quite. 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:57.440 Upright, almost like in a seated fashion. In the back. 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.440 Yes, she probably would have had a bend in it somehow. 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:06.839 The roundness of the head was very visible. This was 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:11.719 a light green or or sort of creamy colored sheet. 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:15.520 I don't know what color sheets John had, but it 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.560 was like a shroud, you know, like a body. I've 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:20.600 dealt with a lot of dead bodies in my life 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:25.880 as an earth I can't be mistaken because the light 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:27.119 was on in the car. 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:31.960 Was it possible for you to actually identify him as 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:33.719 John Winfield when you looked in? 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:35.280 Oh? 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:35.839 Yeah it was. 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:42.360 It definitely him, without a doubt in my mind. It 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:48.719 was hidden. That's it. That's the story. God, dude, you 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:52.200 wonder why the police wouldn't be interested in that. Even now, 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:56.240 I start getting quite turned up inside when I'm thinking 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.240 about it. You know, it's just one of those things 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:03.480 and I've had to with and my son Bo and 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.160 I talk about it a lot. I said to him 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.600 the other day, I said, you know, this is podcast 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:14.200 came on, you know, the Australian newspaper. And I said 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:17.960 to my son, oh, there's this podcast about about brom 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:21.640 and I haven't actually seen it. I said, oh, crikey, 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:24.840 what what should I do? You know? And he said, 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:28.359 oh it's crazy, Mom, You've been thinking about that forever. 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:32.280 And I said, oh, I ready, and he said, oh, great, 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:37.360 great good. I need get off your conscience. He said, Mum, 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:42.039 you've always, you know, angst over this. What ain't you 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:44.599 in here? So that's what I did. 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.440 After we had been talking for about an hour and 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:52.440 fifteen minutes, in which time Jude had disclosed so much more, 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:55.839 including her two visits to police stations in Balana in 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:59.320 nineteen ninety three and a decade or so later in 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:04.200 Byron to tell officers what she saw that night. I asked, 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.520 did you feel better for having disclosed these things? Now? 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:13.840 Nell? He died, recently, Well, I'm taking this to the 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:22.320 great Always some relief when you can get something out, 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:26.400 you know, and what the sake of those girls? 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:30.760 You were going to hear more from Jude later in 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:34.400 this episode. You were also going to hear from others 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.920 about what she witnessed in mid May nineteen ninety three, 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:41.480 when she lived in Granite Street, just a few doors 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:46.680 away from John and Bromwin's house in Sandstone Crescent I 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:50.320 first heard about Jude in early January twenty twenty three 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.840 about and a woman called Kerry McLain sent me a 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:58.200 brief email. Then There were no explanatory notes, just the 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:03.400 words Bromwin, Winfield, Lennox Head and a date May sixteenth, 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:08.760 nineteen ninety three. I replied to Kerry, I wrote, it's 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:13.400 an intriguing case. Do you know anything about it? Kerry 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:18.320 emailed back with some very specific information. She told me 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:21.600 that Cristel lived with Carrie in Kerrie's home in Ballina 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.440 as a border when Cristel was finishing her last year 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:28.040 of high school there. Her stepfather John was leaving to 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:32.000 go to Sydney for a building project. But Carrie added 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:35.320 something else. She wrote that she had a friend who 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.840 lived in the same street as the Winfields, and Kerry 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:42.040 had been told by her friend that she had seen something. 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.080 Carrie added that she urged her friend to pass the 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:49.959 information onto police, but she said that her friend had 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:52.880 a sick baby at the time and carry wasn't sure 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:57.000 how her friend had handled the information to get it 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:00.360 off her own chest. Carrie passed the information onto a 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:05.120 detective some years later. Kerry didn't mention the name of 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:08.400 her friend in her email to me, and I didn't 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:12.120 want to press things at that stage. Early January twenty 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:16.679 twenty three, I had started writing my book The Teacher's Pet, 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:19.599 which took up much of that year, and there was 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:24.199 still unfinished business with the newly convicted wife killer Chris Dawson. 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:28.960 His trial for unlawful sex with an underage schoolgirl became 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:31.960 a series called The Teacher's Accuser, and I worked on 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:35.440 this each week with my journalist colleagues and friends David Murray, 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:39.880 Claire Harvey, Matthew Condon, and Kristin Amiot. It would be 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:43.120 another year before I could properly commit to a thorough 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:48.600 investigation and podcast series revolving around Broman's disappearance, but it 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:52.240 is important to keep every email contact and tip off. 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:57.720 The Bromin Winfield folder on my laptop grew. After thanking 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:01.280 Kerry McLain in January twenty twenty, I assured her that 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:03.520 I would be back in touch when there was time 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:08.000 to revive Broman's case, and so in February twenty twenty four, 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:11.840 about three months before the release of the first episode 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:15.880 in this podcast series, I recorded an interview with Kerry 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:20.240 in the nineteen nineties. Her surname was Ensby, and she 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:24.199 started telling me about her connection to Bromwin's daughter Crystal. 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:30.200 How she came here was there must have been a 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:35.760 little ad in the paper board wanted for a student. 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:40.360 So I just rang that number and she moved in. 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:43.240 She must have been about sixteen. 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:49.400 It's pretty unusual a girl in a family situation at 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:51.360 that stage of a high school needing to move in 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:53.200 with a stranger. What's going on there? 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:57.240 Well, he was going to Sydney to work. The house 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:01.360 is very welcoming. I'm very welcoming. She was safe, while 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:05.680 she was dear. She settled in quite good, went off 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:12.520 to school. She was quiet, she wasn't over talkative, very 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:17.640 tall girl. All teenage girls need their mum. She was 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:22.160 really keen on doing school. I mean she was a 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:24.760 nice girl, not wild or anything like a lot of 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:26.160 the kids that I've had here. 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:31.079 Did she tell you then that her mother had disappeared? 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:31.800 Or Oh? 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:35.360 Yes, he talked a little bit about it, No doubt 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:37.240 it was on her mind all the time. 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:39.880 Do you know what happened to Lauren while you were 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:40.600 looking after her? 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:45.440 She went with her dad to Sydney, So. 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:50.600 I reckon she was living with you when she made 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:55.520 a police statement in Balinat in July nineteen ninety nine. 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:58.800 Oh, I think I can remember. 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:00.000 Yeah. 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:04.680 In fact, she definitely was, yeah, because she says in 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:09.400 paragraph three, I'm presently residing at and I won't say 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.959 you address with three ensby and three young children. 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.000 That's right. Yeah, my name was Zensby. 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:21.720 Yep. Maddie Walsh, Bromwin's twenty one year old second cousin, 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.560 who has been doing her own homework for me in 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:28.439 this podcast series and being an enormous help, asked her 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.160 teenager sister Tianna to read Crystal's police statement. 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.800 I have attended the Balliner police station today again of 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:40.280 my own free will. I've been very concerned about what 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:42.400 has happened to my mother and I would like the 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.600 police to conduct a thorough investigation to try and find 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:46.760 out what has happened to her. 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:51.520 Tiana is sixteen, the same age Crystal was when she 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.319 was living with Kerry McLain and went with a school 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:57.600 teacher to make her statement to police in Ballina in 0:12:57.720 --> 0:12:58.840 nineteen ninety nine. 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.720 I had been requested by a detective Sergeant Taylor to 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:05.880 make a statement concerning my knowledge of my mother's disappearance. 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:09.440 I am prepared to do that, and I understand that 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.160 the statement may be given to the coroner to assist 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:16.959 in any further inquiry. I had been asked what recollection 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:19.960 I have back in May nineteen ninety three, when my 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.560 father arrived at the family home in Sanson Crescent, this 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:27.800 apparently being the day my mother disappeared. I remember being 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.320 at home in the early evening when I received a 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.760 telephone call, and from my recollection, it was from my father. 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:36.920 I don't remember what it was that I spoke about, 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:39.480 but it was not long after this that my father 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:43.240 arrived at the house. I remember my mother saying something like, 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:46.560 what are you doing here? My father says something about 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:50.320 having caught a plane back to Ballina. When I first 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:52.920 saw my father, another lady was with him at the 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:57.040 front door, but she virtually left straight away. I remember 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:01.000 Dad coming into the kitchen and I was sitting watching telephone. 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:03.800 My dad and Mom started talking, but I don't know 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:07.240 what was being said. I think at one stage they 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.520 went into the bedroom and they were talking in there. 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.840 I remember Mom and Dad were talking about on paid bills, 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.840 and Mum saying something along the lines about not talking 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:20.200 about it in front of Lauren and myself. The next 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.040 thing that I remember was Mum telling myself and my 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:25.400 sister Lauren to clean our teeth and go to bed. 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:28.880 I think we normally went to bed about eight thirty 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:32.480 pm each night. After I went to bed, I heard 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:35.720 Mum and Dad arguing in the kitchen. I could hear 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:39.120 Mom crying at the same time. I don't recall what 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:41.720 was being said between Mum and Dad, but I could 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:45.080 tell that they were arguing. I could hear them arguing 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:49.000 until I must have fell asleeph My next recollection that 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:53.000 night was being woken by my father. Dad told me 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.000 that he was taking Lauren and I to Sydney. I 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:58.240 recall that we packed a small bag of clothes and 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:02.240 got into Pekar. My dog, whose name was Mopsie, was 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:05.440 also put into the car with us. At that time, 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:09.240 we had an old white Falcon. After we got in 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.200 the car and Dad started driving, Lauren asked Dad where 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:16.160 Mum was. I remember Dad saying something about Mum going 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:18.840 away on a holiday and he was taking us to Sydney. 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:22.160 Dad says something about that he had a job to 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:24.040 do and that we would have to go with him 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:27.680 to Sydney. I recalled that we stopped at a petro 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.600 station somewhere, but I don't remember where it was. I 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.080 don't remember much about the rest of the trip to Sydney. 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.440 I remember we stayed in Sydney for a couple of 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:42.080 weeks before returning to Lennox Head. Dad never mentioned anything 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:45.400 to me about Mum while I was in Sydney. I 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.240 recalled that Lauren was asking Dad all the time about 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:50.720 Mum and he just said that she'd be back soon. 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.560 I became aware after a couple of weeks that Mum 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.360 had been reported missing to the police, but Dad never 0:15:57.360 --> 0:15:58.360 spoke to me about it. 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:00.520 A month. 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:04.560 I just presume that Mom just wasn't coming back. I 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:06.600 was only ten years of age at that time, so 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.680 I just thought she had left. I have not had 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:12.760 any contact with my mother since her disappearance in nineteen 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:16.880 ninety three. Over the years, I have often thought about 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:17.360 what has. 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:17.800 Happened to her. 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:22.800 Dad has never brought up my mother in conversation. Basically, 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:25.560 over the years, my mother has gradually been built out 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:29.320 of our lives. My Dad never talks about Mum or 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:33.040 his past relationship with her. I have never tried to 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.400 bring up mom in conversation with my father. I am 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:38.440 aware that he does not like to talk about her. 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.160 I am very concerned about what has happened to my mother, 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.280 and that is why I've attended the police station today 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:48.160 to speak to the police. I have been asked by 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:51.200 Detective Sergeant Taylor if I have any knowledge of any 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:55.280 domestic disputes between my mother and father. I remember that 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:59.160 Mom and Dad used to argue on occasions. Dad sometimes 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.960 has a bad temper and equal goose control. I've seen 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:06.960 my father hit my mother on rare occasions. I remember 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.399 that he was smack Lauren on myself, and on one 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:12.080 occasion he picked me up and threw me against the wall. 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.200 Dad always liked the house to be kept spotlessly clean, 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:18.520 and he would get upset if we made any mess 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:19.040 in the house. 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.399 You are going to hear more from Crystal's nineteen ninety 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:28.359 nine statement later in this episode. Here's Kerry McLain again, 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:32.679 And just a reminder, this conversation I'm having with Kerry 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:37.040 occurred on February twenty two of this year, twenty twenty four, 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:41.119 about three and a half months before I had any 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:47.919 contact with Jude. You contacted me a year ago yeah, 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:50.679 was that part of your frustration that nothing had happened. 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:56.240 I was listening to podcasts and you said, if there's 0:17:56.280 --> 0:18:00.679 anything that you should be investigating or any ideas, email me, 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.320 and I thought, right, that's all I need. So I've 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:07.240 got online found your email address because it's always bothered 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.679 me that nothing's happening. And something did happen there. And 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:14.480 then there was news reports they were opening the case, 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:16.560 they were going to be looking at it, and I 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:21.280 made phone calls and told the detectives what I knew 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.679 about the friend living in the street, and I thought 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:26.520 that they should speak to her. 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:28.480 So what did you know? 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:35.280 Well, my friend lived in that street down the road, 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:39.520 a little bit double story place up high I visited 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:44.040 her there quite a few times. My friend Judy was 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:47.040 her name. She had a little baby with all these 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:51.119 health issues, and she was standing out on the balcony 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:55.280 early one morning and she saw I don't even know 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.960 his name, is it John? He drove past, and she 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:02.680 could see down into the car and she said there 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:07.840 was something whitish in the back seat. I said to 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:11.399 her that you should report that, but she had her 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:13.679 own issues at the time, and I don't think she 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:17.720 ever did. But years later, when I spoke to the detective, 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:22.320 I give him her name and said you need to 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:23.200 speak to her. 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:24.520 And did he. 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:27.000 I've got no idea. 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:31.080 Have you stayed in touch with her? 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:38.640 No? No, she moved away. No, I don't know where 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:40.879 she is. She had her own health problems. 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.280 And as best you can carry because it could be 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:49.960 pretty important, I haven't heard this before. Can you relate 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:56.240 precisely or as closely as you can? Remember what she 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:57.040 told you? 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:01.239 What I just said to you, that she saw him 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:05.040 driving down the street and she could see down into 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:07.720 the car and it looked like he had something on 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:11.679 the back seat. She said, it looked like a white sheet, 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:16.960 something wrapped in a white sheet, which I thought was jeez. 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.840 And you're certain that she described in those terms something 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:22.920 wrapped in a white sheet. 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.200 Yes, yes, So. 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:31.960 Those are two big coincidences, Kerry. One that Crystal is 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:38.960 staying with you while police are investigating her mother's suspected yep. 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:43.359 And two that your friend who lives in the street 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:44.320 witnesses someddenly. 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:45.720 Yeah, I know. 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:48.320 It's been on my mind forever. 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.680 And what I'm wondering is, well, Crystal was calling your 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:56.119 place home. You have known what your friend knew. 0:20:57.119 --> 0:20:58.439 Oh, so I would have. 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:02.639 Are you if I try to find Judy? 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:10.000 Yeah, she was divorced and then she married, so she 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:13.399 went by Judy Singh for a long time. 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:19.520 When your friend told you about this, did you believe 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:22.520 that she could be relied upon that she. 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:23.480 Was a Yeah? 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:24.560 I did, I did. 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:26.200 Yeah. 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:31.840 She wasn't one for telling tall stories. I think at 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:35.800 the time we both sort of made the comment, Well, 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:40.520 if that was her, she'd be in the dune somewhere. 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:45.639 Can you describe to me, then, how from her house 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:47.800 she would see into a car. 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:53.320 It's a p hie. It's double story, double garage at 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:58.400 the bottom, and up the top there's a glass sliding 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:02.160 door with a little falcony, not a very big one. 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:06.439 We used to stand out on that balcony and have 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:10.359 a cup of tea and you could see right down 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:14.720 into the cars as they drove past. And if you 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:18.360 see the house, you'll understand how that's possible. 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:23.200 Kerry's memory of what Jude disclosed was that she had 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:26.920 made the sighting in the early hours of the morning. However, 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:31.159 Jude has told me it was closer to midnight. What 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:34.919 sort of relevance do you know or think that she 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:36.040 attached to it. 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:41.600 Well, I think she thought that Bronwin was deceased in 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:44.040 the back seat, wrapped in a sheet, and he was 0:22:44.119 --> 0:22:47.520 going to dispose of her in the sand dunes. 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:51.040 Why the sand dunes, Well, because he's. 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:53.960 A surfer, he'd know all the isolated places. 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:58.400 When do you think you first raised with police what 0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:00.280 your friend Judy told you. 0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:04.760 When they opened it up again and they were investigating. 0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:08.520 Was that about two thousand and nine, so around fifteen 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:09.280 years ago. 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:14.120 Possibly, yeah, if that was when it was two thousand 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:16.040 and nine, yeah. 0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:19.160 In two thousand and nine there was a brief burst 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:22.800 of publicity and the Northern Star newspaper reported that the 0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:27.000 Senior Detective George Radmore of the New South Wales Unsolved 0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:30.440 Homicide Squad was reinvestigating Roman's disappearance. 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:34.479 I was living with this information and I don't know 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:39.280 whether Judy ever spoke to them, and I just wanted 0:23:39.359 --> 0:23:42.520 to let them know that they need to speak to 0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:43.200 this lady. 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:47.399 Right, So you were covering off, you were making sure. 0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:51.160 I guess, like with these things, you sit back and 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:54.199 you think I'll someone will say something, and I just 0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:56.919 wasn't sure because I knew what her life was like. 0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:00.880 She had a lot going on and her own health battles. 0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:04.840 Did they take a statement from you, Well, I. 0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:07.880 Didn't sign anything. It was just over the phone. 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:09.680 Did anybody follow you up? 0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:15.080 No, I've almost thought about this. Mothers just don't disappear. 0:24:15.160 --> 0:24:16.680 They just don't leave their children. 0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:19.240 And you've been a foster mum. 0:24:19.720 --> 0:24:25.639 Yes, and I have seen mothers their addictions have taken 0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:28.640 over them so much that they can't care for their 0:24:28.680 --> 0:24:29.400 own children. 0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:33.879 Of those one hundred and fifty children for whom you've cared, 0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:38.680 how many mothers have abandoned those children, and to your knowledge, 0:24:39.320 --> 0:24:44.800 have never wanted to connect with their kids. Kerry could 0:24:44.800 --> 0:24:47.000 recall only one such case. 0:24:48.040 --> 0:24:52.760 I just can't see it ever happening without extreme circumstances. 0:24:53.640 --> 0:24:56.640 I've seen it all, But I believe in my heart 0:24:56.720 --> 0:25:02.240 that mothers do not walk out on their children. I 0:25:02.320 --> 0:25:04.359