1 00:00:03,990 --> 00:00:06,510 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:06,510 --> 00:00:09,990 Sean Aylmer: One of the keys to succeeding in business is building 3 00:00:09,990 --> 00:00:13,590 Sean Aylmer: and maintaining a strong network, but not every business owner 4 00:00:13,679 --> 00:00:17,430 Sean Aylmer: or entrepreneur is comfortable putting themselves out there. Others struggle 5 00:00:17,430 --> 00:00:19,889 Sean Aylmer: to find the time or the right people to connect 6 00:00:19,890 --> 00:00:23,520 Sean Aylmer: with. Mark Bouris is one of Australia's most successful businessman. 7 00:00:23,730 --> 00:00:26,939 Sean Aylmer: The executive chair of Yellow Brick Road, Mark is perhaps 8 00:00:26,940 --> 00:00:29,580 Sean Aylmer: best known for founding, building and selling Wizard Home Loans. 9 00:00:29,820 --> 00:00:33,630 Sean Aylmer: He's an author, TV presenter, podcaster and the founder of 10 00:00:33,690 --> 00:00:36,839 Sean Aylmer: Mentored. Now he can add launching a social media platform 11 00:00:36,930 --> 00:00:40,650 Sean Aylmer: to that list. Mark is the lead investor in Boa, B- O- 12 00:00:41,370 --> 00:00:45,240 Sean Aylmer: A, a platform designed for business owners and entrepreneurs. Mark Bouris, 13 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:46,260 Sean Aylmer: welcome to Fear and Greed. 14 00:00:46,679 --> 00:00:47,400 Mark Bouris: Good day, Sean. 15 00:00:48,030 --> 00:00:50,670 Sean Aylmer: How did you get into the social media business, Mark? 16 00:00:50,909 --> 00:00:51,840 Sean Aylmer: Tell me about Boa. 17 00:00:52,260 --> 00:00:55,230 Mark Bouris: Right. Well, I am an investor in a business called 18 00:00:55,230 --> 00:00:59,460 Mark Bouris: CUB, which stands for Club of United Businesses and Pre- 19 00:00:59,460 --> 00:01:02,700 Mark Bouris: COVID, this is a business that's been going for eight years, we actually 20 00:01:02,730 --> 00:01:07,799 Mark Bouris: have membership for that particular business, and we only omit 21 00:01:07,799 --> 00:01:11,250 Mark Bouris: members who have a certain level of turnover, only because 22 00:01:11,699 --> 00:01:14,250 Mark Bouris: we have to charge a certain fee in order to 23 00:01:14,250 --> 00:01:17,160 Mark Bouris: justify the content, et cetera, that we provide these guys. 24 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,920 Mark Bouris: And during COVID, we couldn't do what we used to 25 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,049 Mark Bouris: do, and that is we used to hold meetings and 26 00:01:22,050 --> 00:01:25,440 Mark Bouris: see people and build networks and build communities and help 27 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,709 Mark Bouris: people introduce each other to other business owners, that they 28 00:01:28,709 --> 00:01:31,440 Mark Bouris: wanted to meet. And during COVID, we found that we 29 00:01:31,470 --> 00:01:34,350 Mark Bouris: had to turn all that into a digital business. And 30 00:01:34,350 --> 00:01:36,450 Mark Bouris: one of the things coming out of COVID is we decided 31 00:01:36,450 --> 00:01:38,880 Mark Bouris: that there are a lot of Australian business owners, small 32 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,849 Mark Bouris: business owners in particular, who could never have qualified to 33 00:01:41,849 --> 00:01:44,520 Mark Bouris: join the CUB Network. So we thought, why don't we 34 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:46,770 Mark Bouris: establish this thing we've called it Boa, but why don't 35 00:01:46,770 --> 00:01:51,930 Mark Bouris: we establish this digitally- based networking opportunity just for business 36 00:01:51,930 --> 00:01:53,910 Mark Bouris: owners. So it's not for anybody else. You've got to 37 00:01:53,910 --> 00:01:56,160 Mark Bouris: be a business owner or a proprietor or a shareholder 38 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,469 Mark Bouris: in a particular business to join Boa. 39 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,530 Sean Aylmer: It's kind of like a small business community then, is it? 40 00:02:02,219 --> 00:02:05,730 Mark Bouris: It's a business community, a small business owners community. 41 00:02:06,150 --> 00:02:06,511 Sean Aylmer: Yes, right. 42 00:02:06,511 --> 00:02:09,960 Mark Bouris: It's not for aspiring business owners. Maybe one day we'll 43 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,720 Mark Bouris: expand into that, but at this stage we're just trying 44 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,750 Mark Bouris: to stay in our lane. We've got around a thousand 45 00:02:16,139 --> 00:02:20,008 Mark Bouris: founding users right now. We launched a soft launch a 46 00:02:20,008 --> 00:02:24,600 Mark Bouris: little while ago. We've just launched the formal, hard launch, 47 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,989 Mark Bouris: which we did on Wednesday night, and we had 3000 48 00:02:27,990 --> 00:02:32,190 Mark Bouris: applications to join us originally, in the founding group, but 49 00:02:32,190 --> 00:02:34,590 Mark Bouris: we only took a thousand. And it's been really good, people 50 00:02:34,590 --> 00:02:37,260 Mark Bouris: are interacting. We are starting to see what people like to do. 51 00:02:37,860 --> 00:02:40,829 Mark Bouris: It's a very nice application, very nice app. It's an 52 00:02:40,829 --> 00:02:44,190 Mark Bouris: app. It's to go on your mobile phone. We spend around 53 00:02:44,730 --> 00:02:45,990 Mark Bouris: a year and a half, and quite a bit of 54 00:02:45,990 --> 00:02:49,980 Mark Bouris: money developing this thing. And we think that business owners 55 00:02:49,980 --> 00:02:52,620 Mark Bouris: need a platform, business owners need a platform to ask 56 00:02:52,620 --> 00:02:56,280 Mark Bouris: questions, business owners need a platform to perhaps interact and get 57 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,520 Mark Bouris: answers. And the questions range from; who knows a good 58 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,370 Mark Bouris: accountant, I'm a builder and I need a plumber and 59 00:03:02,370 --> 00:03:05,010 Mark Bouris: I really need someone to do my bass, and I'm 60 00:03:05,010 --> 00:03:08,190 Mark Bouris: operating in Sydney. And people love to tell them the 61 00:03:08,190 --> 00:03:09,989 Mark Bouris: answer and refer their mates on. 62 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,230 Sean Aylmer: So Mark, you've been interested in small business, you have 63 00:03:13,230 --> 00:03:16,440 Sean Aylmer: grown a small business to a very large business, but 64 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:21,000 Sean Aylmer: you've always really maintained a focus on small business. Is 65 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,869 Sean Aylmer: this about building that part of the economy? 66 00:03:26,309 --> 00:03:30,660 Mark Bouris: For me and for Daniel Hakim, who's my partner, we 67 00:03:30,660 --> 00:03:34,920 Mark Bouris: take the view that the health of the Australian small business 68 00:03:34,980 --> 00:03:38,490 Mark Bouris: marketplace and anyone who can improve the health of it, 69 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,330 Mark Bouris: is to some extent participating in what I've considered to 70 00:03:42,330 --> 00:03:46,080 Mark Bouris: be nation building. This nation has been built off the 71 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:51,120 Mark Bouris: back of small business owners, you being one. And all 72 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:55,650 Mark Bouris: of us employ people, we employ contractors, we pay rent, 73 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:01,560 Mark Bouris: we use systems, we have aspirations. We buy houses with 74 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,309 Mark Bouris: the revenues we earn. We look after our families. We 75 00:04:05,309 --> 00:04:09,120 Mark Bouris: don't get any handouts. We don't expect anything from anybody. 76 00:04:09,750 --> 00:04:13,350 Mark Bouris: So I think something like Boa, it's an opportunity for 77 00:04:13,350 --> 00:04:19,020 Mark Bouris: us to, again, pay forward with our investment, the sorts 78 00:04:19,020 --> 00:04:22,678 Mark Bouris: of things that we didn't have available to us when 79 00:04:22,678 --> 00:04:25,289 Mark Bouris: we were setting up our small businesses. So pay forward 80 00:04:25,290 --> 00:04:29,549 Mark Bouris: opportunity, pay forward opportunities to build networks, pay forward an 81 00:04:29,549 --> 00:04:34,080 Mark Bouris: opportunity to talk to someone. It's a very isolating, lonely 82 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,050 Mark Bouris: place, being in business for yourself, particularly in tough markets. 83 00:04:37,620 --> 00:04:39,479 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Mark. We'll be back in a minute. 84 00:04:45,719 --> 00:04:48,930 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is businessman and entrepreneur, Mark Bouris, 85 00:04:48,930 --> 00:04:53,700 Sean Aylmer: lead investor in new social media platform, Boa. Mark, networking, 86 00:04:53,700 --> 00:04:56,969 Sean Aylmer: you have always been a great networker. Now, part of 87 00:04:56,970 --> 00:04:59,490 Sean Aylmer: your skill, I've always thought, is that if I meet 88 00:04:59,490 --> 00:05:00,839 Sean Aylmer: you and I have known you for a long time, 89 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:02,909 Sean Aylmer: and if I meet you, you'll remember something about me, 90 00:05:02,910 --> 00:05:05,070 Sean Aylmer: even before the show here, you asked me how one 91 00:05:05,070 --> 00:05:08,490 Sean Aylmer: of my kids was. It's this great skill to just 92 00:05:08,490 --> 00:05:13,230 Sean Aylmer: remember something about someone, but you also are genuinely interested. 93 00:05:13,589 --> 00:05:16,080 Sean Aylmer: So how do you be a good networker? You are 94 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:17,700 Sean Aylmer: an expert at it, and I've watched you over many 95 00:05:17,700 --> 00:05:21,448 Sean Aylmer: years, but you do remember something you know about people. And maybe 96 00:05:21,450 --> 00:05:22,950 Sean Aylmer: it's just being interested in people. 97 00:05:23,339 --> 00:05:27,630 Mark Bouris: I think that's right. I am genuinely interested in people, I 98 00:05:27,630 --> 00:05:31,799 Mark Bouris: know. I'm genuinely interested in what they do, how well 99 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,368 Mark Bouris: they're going, how their family is and I actually like 100 00:05:35,370 --> 00:05:37,529 Mark Bouris: to learn from everybody. I like to know what makes 101 00:05:37,529 --> 00:05:40,979 Mark Bouris: them tick, what are they experiencing, how they solved a 102 00:05:40,980 --> 00:05:44,130 Mark Bouris: problem, what problems are existing in the world, their world 103 00:05:44,130 --> 00:05:46,890 Mark Bouris: today, which is why I do The Mentor podcast, because 104 00:05:46,890 --> 00:05:50,760 Mark Bouris: I've done nearly 500 episodes and everybody comes on the 105 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,099 Mark Bouris: show, I learn at least one thing from every single 106 00:05:53,099 --> 00:05:56,610 Mark Bouris: person about industry or what they're confronted with and how 107 00:05:56,610 --> 00:05:58,738 Mark Bouris: they solve those issues. And some of those things are 108 00:05:58,740 --> 00:06:01,740 Mark Bouris: helpful to me, some aren't, but I just like to 109 00:06:01,740 --> 00:06:03,300 Mark Bouris: learn about people. And I think if you want to 110 00:06:03,300 --> 00:06:05,849 Mark Bouris: be a good networker, if you use the Boa app 111 00:06:05,850 --> 00:06:08,368 Mark Bouris: to network with people, just don't go in there and 112 00:06:08,370 --> 00:06:10,349 Mark Bouris: shake hands with people. I don't mean literally, but just 113 00:06:10,349 --> 00:06:12,719 Mark Bouris: shake hands with them in a digital sense. You've got 114 00:06:12,719 --> 00:06:15,719 Mark Bouris: to start to ask questions about people and try to 115 00:06:15,719 --> 00:06:19,890 Mark Bouris: be genuinely interested to learn. And I always say this 116 00:06:19,890 --> 00:06:24,570 Mark Bouris: to everybody, the most important characteristic of anyone who wants 117 00:06:24,570 --> 00:06:26,789 Mark Bouris: to have a successful life is to be curious. 118 00:06:27,150 --> 00:06:29,460 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. It sounds like Ted Lasso, I don't know if you've 119 00:06:29,460 --> 00:06:30,330 Sean Aylmer: seen Ted Lasso, but he- 120 00:06:30,330 --> 00:06:30,839 Mark Bouris: Yeah, I have. 121 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:35,160 Sean Aylmer: It's like you've got to be curious. Where do you 122 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:40,109 Sean Aylmer: think Australia sits in the small business (inaudible) , are 123 00:06:40,110 --> 00:06:40,830 Sean Aylmer: we good at it? 124 00:06:41,610 --> 00:06:44,909 Mark Bouris: If you mean as a government, I don't think so. 125 00:06:45,630 --> 00:06:49,230 Mark Bouris: I think governments know that the small businesses are important 126 00:06:49,230 --> 00:06:51,750 Mark Bouris: in terms of vote getting, but I don't think they 127 00:06:51,750 --> 00:06:54,689 Mark Bouris: know enough about how to relate to the small business 128 00:06:54,690 --> 00:06:59,490 Mark Bouris: owners. And also small businesses are spread out. So there's 129 00:06:59,550 --> 00:07:03,870 Mark Bouris: not a small businesses, millions of small businesses, all doing 130 00:07:03,870 --> 00:07:07,409 Mark Bouris: something different. And they range in all different sizes, involved 131 00:07:07,410 --> 00:07:11,069 Mark Bouris: in all different industries. So it's very hard to put 132 00:07:11,070 --> 00:07:14,280 Mark Bouris: into one category. The governments can't build one voice for 133 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,001 Mark Bouris: small business owners, and every now and then they throw them a bone, they say, (inaudible) 134 00:07:17,001 --> 00:07:19,949 Mark Bouris: and write off $150, 000 if you buy a Hilux, because you're 135 00:07:19,949 --> 00:07:22,350 Mark Bouris: a plumber. By the way, that's just been taken away 136 00:07:22,380 --> 00:07:25,559 Mark Bouris: in the last budget. Or you can say; look, we 137 00:07:25,559 --> 00:07:28,709 Mark Bouris: want to help you advance your digital experience and make 138 00:07:28,709 --> 00:07:33,060 Mark Bouris: you better at marketing, et cetera. But generally speaking, governments 139 00:07:33,060 --> 00:07:36,120 Mark Bouris: find it very difficult to look after the small business 140 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,220 Mark Bouris: community. But at the same time, the small business community 141 00:07:38,220 --> 00:07:41,250 Mark Bouris: is the biggest employer in this nation. So I think 142 00:07:41,550 --> 00:07:45,960 Mark Bouris: anything that helps small business connect and do better and 143 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,620 Mark Bouris: lead a better life and have a more interesting life 144 00:07:49,890 --> 00:07:52,920 Mark Bouris: and feel a bit more secure than they currently do, 145 00:07:53,220 --> 00:07:58,140 Mark Bouris: anything like Boa, anything that does that, helps to build 146 00:07:58,290 --> 00:08:01,440 Mark Bouris: this nation of ours. We rely heavily on these people. 147 00:08:02,639 --> 00:08:05,760 Sean Aylmer: So small business owners listening to this, if they want 148 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:07,530 Sean Aylmer: to get involved in Boa, what do they do? 149 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,230 Mark Bouris: That's a very simple thing. It takes about 30 seconds, 150 00:08:10,950 --> 00:08:14,610 Mark Bouris: and now you just go into the Boa Spp, just type 151 00:08:14,610 --> 00:08:17,340 Mark Bouris: it into search engine, B- O- A, Boa App, and 152 00:08:17,639 --> 00:08:19,860 Mark Bouris: you'll see it there. You go into it and you 153 00:08:20,099 --> 00:08:22,529 Mark Bouris: join up and it's free. You don't have to pay, it's 154 00:08:22,529 --> 00:08:25,350 Mark Bouris: free, and you can choose which community you want to 155 00:08:25,350 --> 00:08:27,660 Mark Bouris: belong to. You can build your own communities, you can 156 00:08:27,690 --> 00:08:30,990 Mark Bouris: join other people. You can just ask questions. It's interesting, 157 00:08:30,990 --> 00:08:35,429 Mark Bouris: Sean, of the thousand users that we had up in during 158 00:08:35,429 --> 00:08:39,750 Mark Bouris: our beta testing, at any one stage, 37% of those 159 00:08:39,750 --> 00:08:45,059 Mark Bouris: thousand users were using this app or going onto the 160 00:08:45,059 --> 00:08:46,530 Mark Bouris: app at least once a day. 161 00:08:47,100 --> 00:08:47,460 Sean Aylmer: Wow. 162 00:08:47,490 --> 00:08:50,730 Mark Bouris: 75% of them were using at least once a week. 163 00:08:50,970 --> 00:08:54,450 Mark Bouris: And the most predominant usage or functionality that they were 164 00:08:54,450 --> 00:08:59,458 Mark Bouris: using was asking people in the community, asking questions about; 165 00:08:59,458 --> 00:09:01,980 Mark Bouris: have you been... I'm in construction, I'm in the construction 166 00:09:01,980 --> 00:09:06,179 Mark Bouris: industry and I'm experiencing tough time at the moment, and 167 00:09:06,179 --> 00:09:08,940 Mark Bouris: I don't seem to be able to get enough staff 168 00:09:08,940 --> 00:09:12,750 Mark Bouris: to allow me to complete my construction jobs. Is anyone 169 00:09:12,750 --> 00:09:16,350 Mark Bouris: else experiencing the same outcome? And then people just poured 170 00:09:16,350 --> 00:09:18,718 Mark Bouris: all over it and said; yeah, I'm in the construction 171 00:09:18,719 --> 00:09:21,900 Mark Bouris: industry too. I'm having exactly the same problem. So it's 172 00:09:21,900 --> 00:09:24,720 Mark Bouris: about not feeling like you're the only person out there 173 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,300 Mark Bouris: doing tough, for whatever the reason. And it's about honesty 174 00:09:27,300 --> 00:09:30,870 Mark Bouris: too. This is not a shiny, promo app where you 175 00:09:30,870 --> 00:09:33,150 Mark Bouris: go and promote your business. You say; oh, no wonderful 176 00:09:33,150 --> 00:09:35,339 Mark Bouris: or like Instagram. By the way, there's a place for 177 00:09:35,340 --> 00:09:37,230 Mark Bouris: all those things, but it's not like Instagram where you 178 00:09:37,230 --> 00:09:40,170 Mark Bouris: look like everything's sound perfect. This is about honesty, which is 179 00:09:40,170 --> 00:09:44,130 Mark Bouris: why we've restricted to just business owners. Tell us what 180 00:09:44,130 --> 00:09:46,650 Mark Bouris: you want to really know, and I'm sure there's going 181 00:09:46,650 --> 00:09:48,150 Mark Bouris: to be someone out there who wants to share their 182 00:09:48,150 --> 00:09:49,050 Mark Bouris: experience with you. 183 00:09:49,710 --> 00:09:53,039 Sean Aylmer: Now, Mark, given today, Thursday is the launch day, it's 184 00:09:53,039 --> 00:09:56,280 Sean Aylmer: an auspicious day, because it's actually Fear and Greed's third 185 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,090 Sean Aylmer: birthday today. We start on the 18th of May 2023, 186 00:10:00,450 --> 00:10:02,160 Sean Aylmer: and we're all business owners as part of it. So 187 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,740 Sean Aylmer: I'm going to go and chase up Boa after this chat. 188 00:10:04,980 --> 00:10:05,160 Mark Bouris: Perfect. 189 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,110 Sean Aylmer: To have a look at it, because I think after 190 00:10:07,110 --> 00:10:09,540 Sean Aylmer: three years, all those things that you are talking about, 191 00:10:09,900 --> 00:10:14,850 Sean Aylmer: be it fixing the printer, finding an accountant, understanding social 192 00:10:14,850 --> 00:10:17,670 Sean Aylmer: media better, all that sort of stuff, I presume that's 193 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:18,660 Sean Aylmer: what Boa's about. 194 00:10:18,990 --> 00:10:21,689 Mark Bouris: It is. That's what it's about, and that's what it's about at the moment. So 195 00:10:22,410 --> 00:10:25,710 Mark Bouris: we'll evolve it over time and it'll grow into all 196 00:10:25,710 --> 00:10:27,719 Mark Bouris: sorts of things, but we're not the sort of people 197 00:10:27,719 --> 00:10:30,389 Mark Bouris: who sit down and say; we think this what's business 198 00:10:30,389 --> 00:10:34,080 Mark Bouris: owners need. We're saying; here's a platform, we would like 199 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,770 Mark Bouris: to learn what business owners need, and over time we're 200 00:10:37,770 --> 00:10:41,400 Mark Bouris: going to provide it. So this platform is about learning 201 00:10:41,460 --> 00:10:44,670 Mark Bouris: what business owners need. You can't help people unless you 202 00:10:44,670 --> 00:10:47,490 Mark Bouris: know what it is they need. And we're not so 203 00:10:48,359 --> 00:10:50,520 Mark Bouris: bold as to say we know all the answers, because 204 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,280 Mark Bouris: we don't. But our game is to learn, just like 205 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:53,880 Mark Bouris: I've always done. 206 00:10:54,450 --> 00:10:56,250 Sean Aylmer: Mark, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 207 00:10:56,639 --> 00:10:59,460 Mark Bouris: Good on you, Sean. Sean, I want to say congratulations. 208 00:10:59,460 --> 00:11:02,309 Mark Bouris: I remember, mate, when you first kicked it off three 209 00:11:02,309 --> 00:11:02,790 Mark Bouris: years ago. 210 00:11:02,849 --> 00:11:03,750 Sean Aylmer: You were very helpful 211 00:11:05,910 --> 00:11:09,120 Mark Bouris: And it was a bold move, and I'm so happy, because I know you've done really well. 212 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:10,290 Sean Aylmer: Thank you, Mark. 213 00:11:10,290 --> 00:11:11,130 Mark Bouris: I'm so happy for you, mate. 214 00:11:11,490 --> 00:11:15,270 Sean Aylmer: I appreciate it. That was businessman Mark Bouris, lead investor 215 00:11:15,270 --> 00:11:18,090 Sean Aylmer: in Boa, B- O- A. This is the Fear and 216 00:11:18,090 --> 00:11:20,338 Sean Aylmer: Greed daily interview. Join us every morning for the full 217 00:11:20,340 --> 00:11:23,819 Sean Aylmer: episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. 218 00:11:23,879 --> 00:11:25,708 Sean Aylmer: I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.