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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives

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Speaker 1: detective sy aside of life. The average person has never

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Speaker 1: exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world. Today,

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Speaker 1: I had a conversation with Carine Hoffstrand talking about some

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Speaker 1: of the things she's done in her wild life. It's

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Speaker 1: an interesting chat that we had. She talks about how,

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Speaker 1: as a nineteen year old girl on the way to

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Speaker 1: New York to study at a prestigious acting school, she

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Speaker 1: got distracted by a young surfer in Hawaii, She fell

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Speaker 1: in love, and she never became an actor. We also

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Speaker 1: talked about how she started working in bars in Hawaii

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Speaker 1: dressed in a bunny suit, which then led to her stripping,

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Speaker 1: dealing drugs, and how she spent time in prison in

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Speaker 1: Australia following a huge drug bust. That's just part of

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Speaker 1: a story. She also studied to become a nurse and

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Speaker 1: worked in ICU units. She continued dealing party drugs and

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Speaker 1: hung out with characters in that world. We also talked

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Speaker 1: about her time managing brothels and massage parlors, and I

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Speaker 1: got an education in what it involves working in the

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Speaker 1: BDSM club. We had a bit of fun. There were

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Speaker 1: lots of laughs, but also had some serious discussions about

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Speaker 1: drugs and the sex industry and a lot of things

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Speaker 1: I didn't expect to be talking about on I Catch Killers.

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Speaker 1: Krin Hofstrand, welcome to I Catch Killers. Thank you well

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Speaker 1: I found out about you because they'll produce it here

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Speaker 1: on I Catch Killers. Said hey, you got to check

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Speaker 1: this lady out on TikTok and post that you were

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Speaker 1: doing on social media, and we had a bit of

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Speaker 1: a deep dive and said, hey, we're going to get

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Speaker 1: you in on I Catch Killers. So I'm very excited

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Speaker 1: about sitting down and having a chat with you. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure where the conversation is going to take us,

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Speaker 1: but it will be fun and interesting, I suggest.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, I hope. So let's see, let's see what happens.

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Speaker 1: Well, you've had well reading your life and for the

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Speaker 1: research that we've done in your life. You've lived a full,

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Speaker 1: full life I have.

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Speaker 2: I always say. The only thing I haven't done that

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Speaker 2: I really want is I want to win an Academy

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Speaker 2: Award for Best Original Screenplay. That's what I want to do.

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Speaker 2: But first of all, I've got to write a screenplay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's probably just the thing that's holding you back

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Well, yeah, I can't talk on screenplays,

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Speaker 1: but books. You've definitely got a book in your stories.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you get a book, you get a screenplay.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, we'll start writing when we'll be finished shortly

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Speaker 1: and you can start putting pend the paper and get

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Speaker 1: the story highs and layers. You've been lived over in Hawaii.

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Speaker 1: You have worked as a waitress, ended up as a stripper.

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Speaker 1: Then you've got into drugs. Drugs has taken hold of you.

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Speaker 1: You started dealing drugs. You've done time in prison. You

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Speaker 1: manage brothels and all sorts of places, massage parlors, very

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Speaker 1: different type of life living outside what and let's call

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Speaker 1: them the probably too offensive saying the straight e one eighties,

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Speaker 1: but the normal life. What steered you into that type

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Speaker 1: of lifestyle was.

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Speaker 2: Probably because I never really lived a straight life. I mean,

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Speaker 2: my father was in the acting community, and he had

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Speaker 2: I had a million uncles, Like when in the fifties

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Speaker 2: and sixties and seventies, when it wasn't cool to be gay,

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Speaker 2: there was a lot of uncles in the acting industry,

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Speaker 2: and so I've kind of never really lived a straight life.

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Speaker 2: It's always been a little left to center. Even though

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Speaker 2: my mother and father never did anything wrong, I've never

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Speaker 2: lived like if my mother was a pharmacist. My father

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Speaker 2: was an actor and also owned in the old days,

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Speaker 2: owned a truck company and then did real estate, So

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Speaker 2: that's as bout as straight as we got, you know.

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Speaker 2: And he was having an affair with his secretary, so

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Speaker 2: that's kind of really which I knew about. So that's

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Speaker 2: as about as straight as my life got. So other

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Speaker 2: than nursing, I don't think my life's ever been that straight.

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Speaker 2: And nursing was overtaken by my intoverted commas addiction to cocaine.

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Speaker 2: So that's why I got at nursing and went on

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Speaker 2: ships where cocaine was more prevalent, so I could do

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Speaker 2: it more often.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and I suppose, and we're going to dive deep

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Speaker 1: into that, into the world of drugs. But also it

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Speaker 1: was during that time it was experimental. People were trying

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Speaker 1: that in the world that you were mixing.

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Speaker 2: It was the norm in Hawaii, Yeah, because that's where

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Speaker 2: I got into. Like when I was twelve and a half,

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Speaker 2: I did a hit an acid here in Australia, but

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Speaker 2: my drug days didn't start until Hawaii when I was nineteen.

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Speaker 1: How did you get into acid at twelve and a.

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Speaker 2: Half, Well, just because I went to a private school

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Speaker 2: and people did that. Who knows, I don't know. It's

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Speaker 2: just the thing we did, you know. I know I

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Speaker 2: did acid before I had a joint.

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Speaker 1: It was just very strange.

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Speaker 2: Fifteen we were going at fifteen, I was going to

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Speaker 2: a place called Joseph's Coat, which was down in Piermont,

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Speaker 2: and we were all doing acid down there. Nobody was

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Speaker 2: smoking joints in my group. We were all doing.

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Speaker 1: Acid, okay bypass thee.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well we did that on the side, but that

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Speaker 2: was not the big thing. The thin big thing was acid.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why anyway, but my main drug thing

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Speaker 2: came in where cocaine was real cocaine, where it came

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Speaker 2: straight from South America. Like I had a deal of

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Speaker 2: friend who got on a plane literally with a bag

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Speaker 2: full of money, like a suitcase full of money, went

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Speaker 2: to lax, dropped the bag over to the guy who

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Speaker 2: picked up his suitcase and came back. So I was

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Speaker 2: pink off the rock. South American cocaine hadn't been cut down,

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Speaker 2: hadn't been cut down nothing. So that's the kind of

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Speaker 2: cocaine we were doing here in Australia.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: I when I was living in Hawaii, I used to

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Speaker 2: come home every two years. And when I came home

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Speaker 2: for the first time after the two years, my best

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Speaker 2: friend was on heroin. But you know, we won't go there.

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Speaker 2: I would find some coke somewhere and it was like

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Speaker 2: I did, I'm like, really, what is this? You know?

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Speaker 2: So the next time I came over, I bought some

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Speaker 2: with me right, so that they could see what real

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Speaker 2: stuff was like.

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Speaker 1: Okay, in the in the all the different stages of

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Speaker 1: your life, whether it was in Hawaii. When it was

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Speaker 1: living here in Australia, What was the high of your

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Speaker 1: life was? What do you look back and think that

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Speaker 1: was a great period of life.

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Speaker 2: Probably moving to Hawaii. I think that really because I've

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Speaker 2: never been an Australian fan per se. You know, because

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Speaker 2: going back to my father, I have a father who

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Speaker 2: is who was an Australiana freak. If it wasn't for

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Speaker 2: my father, I'd probably be an American citizen now. But

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Speaker 2: he said if disown me if I became an American

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Speaker 2: citizen when I married an American. But moving to Hawaii

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Speaker 2: was probably, to be honest, probably the highlight of my

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Speaker 2: life because while living in Hawaii, I got my degrees,

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Speaker 2: I worked on cruise liners, like the best job in

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Speaker 2: the world. That would be the highlight of highlights, and

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Speaker 2: had a great life, you know. So that because my

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Speaker 2: in inverted commas again addiction to cocaine, which I never

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Speaker 2: saw as an addiction up until right until the end

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Speaker 2: when it got really bad. But the rest of the

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Speaker 2: time it was like, oh, we're going out, let's do

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Speaker 2: So it was your.

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Speaker 1: Party drunk exactly exactly okay, And you mentioned your father

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Speaker 1: and just to put the listeners in so they understand

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Speaker 1: he played Bob Hatfield in the country practice, that's right,

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Speaker 1: and that's pre paid TV and everything else. That was

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Speaker 1: a huge show in Australia and I think thirty countries

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Speaker 1: across the world, and he was one of the main characters.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. But the thing is that that was

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Speaker 2: his part. That's what he was remembered for. But he

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Speaker 2: also the first thing I ever saw my father do

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Speaker 2: was when I was about six or seven years old,

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Speaker 2: and it was a swing soft drink and it's the

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Speaker 2: swing soft drink man. Nothing that you do it with

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Speaker 2: the seft drink service. You've been eaten for swing self drinks.

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Speaker 2: That's what my father was to me, okay, And then

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Speaker 2: all my life he did community theater, he did ads,

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Speaker 2: he did stuff on ABC TV. He did with Leonard

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Speaker 2: Teal who was also a really bit of actor who we

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Speaker 2: called Uncle Len. He did what were the first like videos,

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Speaker 2: so they were what were called fill ins on ABC.

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Speaker 2: So between six twenty five and six point thirty when

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Speaker 2: Belbert started, they used to do a music video. Dad

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Speaker 2: would do the filming and Leonard Uncle Lenn would do

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Speaker 2: the music. The you know, there'd be a poem or

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Speaker 2: something to it. They'd do some sort of story to

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Speaker 2: it with Uncle Len's voice.

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Speaker 1: Leonard Teele he was a big actor in these times too,

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Speaker 1: wasn't he Homicide?

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Speaker 2: I think homicide was his big one. He's really big one.

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Speaker 2: So Dad was in homicide, rip, tied water, rats, all

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Speaker 2: of them. Everything. But what happened was after mum died,

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Speaker 2: when my mother died very early. My mother died when

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Speaker 2: she was forty four of cancer of the bladder, so Dad,

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Speaker 2: So that was in nineteen eighty one, and Dad in

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty when she said no more, I'm not doing

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Speaker 2: any more treatments or any I'm just going able to go.

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Speaker 2: So he stopped working in nineteen eighty and started writing

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Speaker 2: a book on Ben Hall, who he's one of Australia's

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Speaker 2: authorities on Now all this time, I'm in Hawaii, right,

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Speaker 2: I'm not here in Australia. And then in nineteen eighty

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Speaker 2: one I came over to look after my mother for

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Speaker 2: the last three months of her life because I was

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Speaker 2: an ICU nurse. And when I went back, I went

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Speaker 2: back into July. I stayed until after their wedding anniversary.

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Speaker 2: I went back into the July he called me in

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Speaker 2: the October. I remember it so well, so all my

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Speaker 2: life he's been an actor, right, But he calls me

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Speaker 2: in the October and I'm in bed and I'm watching

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Speaker 2: Johnny Carson ten o'clock at night, and he goes, oh,

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Speaker 2: my nickname he never knew my real name. My nickname's Bugs.

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Speaker 2: He goes, oh, hi, Bugs, just letting you know. I've

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Speaker 2: got a part in a new show. And I said, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: what is it? Here in my thinking, he goes, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's about a country doctor. I'm like, okay, here we go.

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Speaker 2: It's all creatures great and small. It's on Channel two

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Speaker 2: and you know, way to go dad, And he goes,

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Speaker 2: it's called a country practice. I said, okay, We're good

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Speaker 2: on you. You know. That's how it is. So two

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Speaker 2: years later, because I come back every two years, I

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Speaker 2: came back to my father at the airport with about

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Speaker 2: thirty people around him trying to get his autograph and

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Speaker 2: me standing over here, going dad die. And so then

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Speaker 2: I kind of realized that he had the part that

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Speaker 2: my mother had been praying for all her life.

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Speaker 1: You know, well, that's it was a different time. Wasn't

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Speaker 1: like you had your movie stars, but the TV stars

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Speaker 1: were big, especially in this country, and the Shaw like

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Speaker 1: that am for years and one of the one of

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Speaker 1: the main characters. I've asked the best time in your life,

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Speaker 1: your years in Hawaii, worst time in your life.

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Speaker 2: Worst time, worst day was the first day in jail.

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Speaker 2: I retract that worst time, worst day was the first

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Speaker 2: time in the SPC.

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Speaker 1: Cells US and the jails.

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent worse, one thousand percent worse because I

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Speaker 2: was busted on a long weekend Queen's birthday. What was

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Speaker 2: the Queen's birthday? Long weekend on the eighth of June

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Speaker 2: ninety ninety one, So I was in those cells.

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Speaker 1: You've got the pleasure of staying down there.

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Speaker 2: Saturday, Sunday and Monday. Didn't get out to Malawa until

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Speaker 2: the Tuesday because I had a bail hearing. I think

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Speaker 2: I had a hearing either on the Sunday or the Monday.

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Speaker 2: It must have been on the Sunday because then't have

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Speaker 2: to do it within a certain amount of time. I'm

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Speaker 2: pretty sure it was a ridiculous thing. Anyway, they weren't

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Speaker 2: going to.

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Speaker 1: Go You're not the first person to sit in that

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Speaker 1: chair and complain about the cells at the SPC. It's

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Speaker 1: a pressive, no light, sad, a bunker.

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Speaker 2: Doing things they shouldn't be doing. And then the shower

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Speaker 2: from memory was I don't know what it's like now,

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Speaker 2: but the shower from memory was out in the open

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Speaker 2: like there was nothing. There was no privacy whatsoever. So

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Speaker 2: I would say, yes, that would be the worst, and

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Speaker 2: at the same time realizing what was happening, you know,

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Speaker 2: like because I wasn't drunk or high or anything, because

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Speaker 2: I was just out of bed when they came in,

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Speaker 2: and so it was after I'd been interviewed for interrogated

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Speaker 2: for ten hours or eight hours, then I go down

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Speaker 2: into these cells, into this hell hole, and then the

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Speaker 2: realization and never being in jail before and never being

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Speaker 2: around these kind of people before, because the people I

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Speaker 2: dealt with were you know, Oxford Street gay, so I mean,

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Speaker 2: they weren't these people. And I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: this is what it's going to be like. This is what,

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Speaker 2: however long is going to be like. And so that

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Speaker 2: was probably the worst day.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, well it's highs and lows in life. You

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Speaker 1: haven't lived a flat line life, No, That's definitely had

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Speaker 1: it's ups and downs. Now we'll put a disclaimer out

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Speaker 1: here because I know in the conversation I've had with

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Speaker 1: you and sitting down with you now, you're very forthright

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Speaker 1: in your opinions and you're moments and the life that

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Speaker 1: you've lived. And if there's people people shocked by what

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Speaker 1: we talk about all discussions, my thought is that we

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Speaker 1: want to take people in a true crime podcast into

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Speaker 1: the world of world of crime, and that involves in

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Speaker 1: drugs and the sex industry and jail and all that.

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Speaker 1: So people might be shocked, But I just want people

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Speaker 1: to understand that you've come in here very kindly and

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Speaker 1: you're going to tell us about your life. I find fascinating.

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Speaker 2: In a life. I mean, you know, people say to me, like,

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Speaker 2: you've led a life, and I'm like, yeah, And I

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Speaker 2: went to I was born and raised in Bankstown, So

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Speaker 2: I went to Bankstown West Public School and then I

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Speaker 2: went to marrit And Ladies' College. We never know had

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Speaker 2: a really stable, what people would think of as stable

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Speaker 2: Bankstown family life.

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Speaker 1: Well, I suppose that it exposes you to other things

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Speaker 1: in life that a lot of people don't get exposed

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Speaker 1: to their whole life.

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Speaker 2: Well that's exactly what happened, you know, on my eighteenth

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Speaker 2: birthday of my father and mother and me standing at

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Speaker 2: the back of our Bankstown house, next to the barbecue

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Speaker 2: smoking a joint. You know, that's just how it was.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, did you enjoy your childhood?

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Speaker 2: I had a great childhood. I really had a great childhood.

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Speaker 2: I really until dad started the affair. It was great,

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Speaker 2: It was fantastic. And that killed my mother. That didn't

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Speaker 2: kill me, that didn't kill my brother. That just she

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Speaker 2: idolized my father. My grandmother who I idolized, who I

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Speaker 2: cry over every day. She hated my father for what

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Speaker 2: he did to her. I mean, but you know it

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Speaker 2: was their marriage, wasn't mine?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but that took a lot too.

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Speaker 1: It's life. There's paying with the joy, isn't he on that? Now?

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Speaker 1: At nineteen, I think you got an inheritance from an

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Speaker 1: uncle or from my auntie, from your auntie, So at nineteen,

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Speaker 1: I think it was nineteen when you went to Hawaii.

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Speaker 1: You were going over there to an acting school. Was

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Speaker 1: that now?

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Speaker 2: I was going I had a letter of introduction in

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Speaker 2: New York to the Stella Adler studio. Stella Adler was

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Speaker 2: an actor from my father, but a girlfriend of mine

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Speaker 2: Sandra was going to Hawaii. She'd already been there. She'd

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Speaker 2: met this guy named Mark. She was in love with him,

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Speaker 2: and I said, oh, well, i'll stop off in Hawaii

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Speaker 2: with you. Now. In those days, so I've already got

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Speaker 2: the inheritance. And in those days, one dollar Australian was

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Speaker 2: worth two dollars American. Okay, very unlike today.

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Speaker 1: So you were rich.

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Speaker 2: I was, you know, I had some money behind me.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, I was on my way to New York.

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Speaker 2: I'll stop off in Hawaii with you. He lived in

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Speaker 2: a penhouse which was in an old what's called the

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Speaker 2: Hippy Hilton on Seaside Avenue, which was like a four

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Speaker 2: story nineteen thirties building with this huge leni which is

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Speaker 2: a Patiell and huge beautiful appartment for those days, right,

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Speaker 2: and so Andrew was going over because she was in

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Speaker 2: love with him, and she sold up all the stuff

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Speaker 2: and she was on her way to see Mark. Well

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Speaker 2: went home to.

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Speaker 1: Mark nd up your husband? Yeah, okay, okay.

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Speaker 2: So Sandra went home after a month, I didn't end

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Speaker 2: up in Stella Adlas Studios, and I ended up marrying

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Speaker 2: Mark back here two years later.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So what attracted you to Mark.

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Speaker 2: Oh, probably his looks and the fact he lives in Hawaii. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: oh yeah. He was a semi pro serfer and a chef,

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Speaker 2: not a chef, but not a not a certified chef,

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Speaker 2: but a chef, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: So he would have bearn a big thing in Hawaii.

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Speaker 2: He was a big thing. He had long blonde hair,

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Speaker 2: really good looking from New York. He looked like one

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Speaker 2: of the guys from Big Weddnesday, Jan Michael Vincent. So

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Speaker 2: he was the exact replica of Jen Michael Vincent for

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Speaker 2: anybody who knows who he.

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Speaker 1: Is, one of my favorite movies Big Wednesday.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, he I have photos from when they were making it,

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Speaker 2: actually because I used to have a really good camera

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Speaker 2: and I was out there on the North Shore and

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Speaker 2: I actually took photos of Reno Abilera, who was in

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Speaker 2: Big Wednesday as one of the surfers, right, and I

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Speaker 2: actually my photos were on the wall of his seurch shop.

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Speaker 1: Oh cool, Okay, I made it into post. Well, I

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Speaker 1: can see that you were nineteen at the time, So

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Speaker 1: a nine year old girl traveling from Australia on the

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Speaker 1: way to New York got sidetracked and you ended up

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Speaker 1: in a relationship with him and that's when you started.

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Speaker 1: Did you start using drugs at that stage?

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Speaker 2: Or we were just smoking, just smoking coke, just smoking pot.

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Speaker 2: I mean, really, anybody in Hawaii from the age of

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Speaker 2: five to one hundred and five smoked marijuana. It was

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Speaker 2: the thing. Everybody did it. Coke was again the thing

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Speaker 2: you did on the weekend if you really wanted to.

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Speaker 2: You didn't really need to because there was a drug

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Speaker 2: around it that time called kuludes, and kaludes were really big,

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Speaker 2: and so you got the kuludes from a doctor and

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Speaker 2: they were prescription description no no from description, and they

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Speaker 2: were I don't know what they were really used for.

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Speaker 2: I think they were used as a sleeping tablet. You know,

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Speaker 2: they had to be a sleeping tablet because you took

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Speaker 2: a half and you were like nodding off kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: But that was the big drug. So you did your

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Speaker 2: pot during the week and then you went out and

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Speaker 2: you dance on them and stuff like that. It was

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Speaker 2: something that is not around anymore. I can't I can't

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Speaker 2: describe a drug that would be around. I've never taken

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Speaker 2: a row hypnol, so I don't know what that effect,

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Speaker 2: but the effect that I hear about with row hypnol

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Speaker 2: is you black out with kuludes. You didn't black out.

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Speaker 2: You knew exactly what you were doing. You were just

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Speaker 2: a bit loose on your feet. You know, you did

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Speaker 2: have a few drinks with row hypno, with rohypno, with

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Speaker 2: kualudes versus with X to see right, But they were

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Speaker 2: the drugs. So coke just was another on the sideline

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Speaker 2: kind of thing. It wasn't until much later in life,

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Speaker 2: like I'm talking, until I got just while I was

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Speaker 2: nursing and until I got on the ships that my

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Speaker 2: coke use actually.

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Speaker 1: Is at the point in time when you realize that,

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Speaker 1: oh that this is detrimental. It's not enhancing my life,

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Speaker 1: it's what coke.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well I didn't even realize it. My Yeah, people

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Speaker 2: around me and the guy who I actually ended up

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Speaker 2: marrying after Mark actually pushed me onto the plane to

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Speaker 2: get me back here to straighten me out from it,

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Speaker 2: because literally I was like I was on the plane

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Speaker 2: and they were I must have looked terrible. I really

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Speaker 2: must have looked terrible. And I had a black dress on.

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Speaker 2: I remember having a black dress on, and I had

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Speaker 2: sweat marks like this, and so I was stopped by

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Speaker 2: customs in my suitcase. So my father was in a

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Speaker 2: country patress by this time. In my suitcase was a

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Speaker 2: picture of Dad. So anyway, he's going through the suitcase,

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Speaker 2: he comes across the photo of my father. He said,

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Speaker 2: who's this? I said, my father, And he put the

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Speaker 2: photo of my father back down in close suitcase and said,

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Speaker 2: go on through.

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Speaker 1: It was handy, very handy.

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Speaker 2: Then I got home and found a Graham in my wallet.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, you could have been here in Australian prison.

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Speaker 1: I think it might be a little bit better than

403
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Speaker 1: America than prison, but I'm not sure. Talk about that further.

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Speaker 1: So you lived a lot of time in Hawaii and

405
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Speaker 1: you're working as a cocktail waitress dressed in a bunny suit. Yep. Literally.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So first, the first job I had in Hawaii,

407
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Speaker 2: this is before I was legally allowed to work. This

408
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Speaker 2: is prior to Mirk and I being married, when that

409
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Speaker 2: first visit was going on, And then I went back

410
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Speaker 2: every three months after my visa ran out. I went

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Speaker 2: back four times before we got married. I was doing trucking,

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Speaker 2: you know, delivering furniture. That was the illegal job in

413
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Speaker 2: the meta commas. Then when I got my residency. I

414
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Speaker 2: was working in a cocktail in a strip joint called

415
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Speaker 2: El Morocco on Colorkawa. I lived on seaside and off

416
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Speaker 2: seaside is Colorkawa. Caloricara is the main street of Wakaki.

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Speaker 2: So unlike the strip joints here, very much unlike the

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Speaker 2: strip joints here, people had to sit down, they had

419
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Speaker 2: to have a drink. There was cocktail waitresses walking around

420
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Speaker 2: getting the drinks. They couldn't stand up, they couldn't get

421
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Speaker 2: near the stage, all that kind of stuff. The strippers

422
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 2: did one song dressed in their little teddies or whatever

423
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Speaker 2: they had on, two songs topless, one song bottomless. Ye,

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Speaker 2: So I was walking around getting the drinks. And also

425
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 2: it was a hustle. Now in the Korean War pre

426
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Speaker 2: my time, I'm old, but not that old, they had

427
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Speaker 2: big girl bars. And what big girl bars were bars

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Speaker 2: where girls would come up and sit down with you

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Speaker 2: and go hi, how are you?

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Speaker 1: You know?

431
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 2: Rugby leg and do all that? Would you like to

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Speaker 2: buy me a drink? And then what we the cocktail

433
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 2: waitresses were on the alert for was a sign of

434
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 2: some description that he wants to buy her a drink,

435
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 2: and the drink started at two dollars and ended up

436
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:21,719
Speaker 2: to whatever they have in their wallet.

437
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: So the poor dumb blokes of the city there thinking,

438
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: oh this, this lady is interested in me, and she's

439
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 1: giving them a sign to the waitress that's right, we've

440
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 1: got one.

441
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 2: And then if they spend enough, then oh, darling, why

442
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 2: don't we go in the booths. So the booth was

443
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 2: literally a booth like a banquette, and there was four

444
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 2: or five of them, right, and you got the big

445
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 2: spenders or what you hope would be a big spender

446
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 2: in there, and in there went a little bit further,

447
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 2: like they touched their boob or something like that. Nothing big,

448
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 2: nothing like, because it was not allowed.

449
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: Was these are legal clubs, absolutely legal.

450
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 2: This is on the main strip of wak This is

451
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 2: absolutely legal. But there was security guards walking around all

452
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 2: the time. So none of the girls could do any

453
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 2: action that you might find in a private situation, right,

454
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 2: but they could have their breast touched and stuff like that.

455
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 2: But if they were within the bra and the security

456
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 2: guard came by, you'd see the cahan go away. But

457
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 2: that cost darling to go back there. It's one hundred dollars.

458
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 2: So then they'd get the one hundred bucks and then me,

459
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 2: as a cocktail waitress, would bring so say it was

460
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 2: an eighty dollar drink, right, so me, a's a cocktail waitress,

461
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 2: would bring the twenty dollars change back in a ten

462
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 2: and two five and have a five underneath stuck onto

463
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 2: the cocktail tray with my finger on it, so only

464
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 2: fifteen dollars would come off side your five dollars.

465
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 1: Run run that past me again.

466
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 2: Okay, So you get twenty dollars change, you fan it

467
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 2: out five ten and two fives, and then the cocktail

468
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 2: tray is always wet, always because of drink, and so

469
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 2: you put your finger on the five dollar bill. You

470
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 2: put your hand like that on top, and you go,

471
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,400
Speaker 2: here you go, he's changed. Hold the five dollar bill

472
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 2: and push the.

473
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: Fifteen and the drive. They're distracted. They're so distracted.

474
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 2: By the boob and by the girl. And then the

475
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 2: next step after that was you know, there's an upstairs,

476
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 2: but that's going to cost two hundred dollars, Like you

477
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 2: could tell the many price. I'm just coming out with

478
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 2: these prices. So there's an upstairs, you know, but you've

479
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 2: got to pay for it now. So the two hundred dollars.

480
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 2: Drink could come out. Now. The girls could drink water, sprite,

481
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 2: half and half, which is half champagne, half water, half

482
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 2: champagne and half sprite or champagne. But the girls who

483
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 2: drank full champagne were on The bartenders were on alert

484
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 2: to them all the time to how good or bad

485
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 2: they were, you know, because there was laws, you know,

486
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 2: And so there was no upstairs. Upstairs was Marge's office.

487
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 2: Marge was the owner, so there was no upstairs. Oh, darling,

488
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 2: the last the guy is just taking forever, you know,

489
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 2: we just can't go up right now. And then by

490
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 2: the time you.

491
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: Hustled him, they're plastered.

492
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 2: They're plastered, and the money's gone. I'm here tomorrow night.

493
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: Come back tomorrow night and we'll get up there for sure,

494
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 2: and hopefully they come back the next night and do

495
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 2: the same thing.

496
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 1: Or he's got com home and.

497
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 2: Thought, oh they've got no money.

498
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Well that's an interesting world. You you start

499
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: off there, but you ended up stripping because the money

500
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: was money was better. Talk through the process there.

501
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 2: So Mark, my husband, I will always be very thankful

502
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 2: to him in a way, if that's the word. So

503
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 2: there was a girl that I used to work with

504
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 2: right and at the time, I was going to school

505
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 2: for nursing as well, and I was making good money.

506
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 2: I was making like two and now we're talking the seventies,

507
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: so I was making like two hundred dollars a night

508
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 2: and tips, which as a waitress, which would be like,

509
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 2: I don't know, a thousand dollars nowah, equivalent to and

510
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 2: the strippers were making a thousand dollars a night for

511
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: not doing anything.

512
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: I'm on the piece of that, yes and so.

513
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 2: And I was a tall, leggy, good looking person. I

514
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 2: was six on a five to eleven frame. I mean,

515
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, you know, anyway.

516
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:23,719
Speaker 1: You pass the audition.

517
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I passed the audition. And so I went home

518
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 2: to Mark and I said, I think I'm going to

519
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 2: start stripping, and he said, okay, right, well, because we

520
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 2: had an open relationship, so it wasn't like we were

521
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 2: like this husband and wife, you know. So I started stripping.

522
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 2: Did the audition, which I already knew me so, you know,

523
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 2: you do an audition as to whether or not you

524
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 2: can actually dance and whether or not you can actually strip.

525
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 2: Did the audition and started working.

526
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: And did that and how long did you do that for.

527
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 2: I waitress for two years, and I waitress for two years,

528
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 2: and I probably stripped for about four four going into

529
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 2: five because I did my two degrees while I was

530
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 2: doing it. But you have to understand that while I

531
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 2: was there was a time in that four that last

532
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: four years that I was actually nursing as well. So

533
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: it's one of those jobs you can go back to. Okay,

534
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 2: So I went back to it, you know what I mean.

535
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 1: Back to the stripping, back.

536
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 2: Back to stripping. I no know when into nursing. Oh,

537
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 2: I don't have to do this anymore.

538
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 1: And then then and then step step away from.

539
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 2: It, step away from it, and you do a couple

540
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 2: of nights here and there.

541
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: How did you fall on stripping? Was it exciting for you?

542
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 2: It wasn't exciting. I just wanted to because during the

543
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 2: night you probably there was literally fifteen girls on work,

544
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 2: So there's only so many times a night you have

545
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 2: to strip, like twice, you know, on one of the

546
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 2: If you're on a day shift, then that's where you

547
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: get to strip more because there's only four or five

548
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 2: of you on a day shift. But then again, the

549
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 2: money can be so much better because there's less people

550
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: and there's those guys that are just walking along because

551
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: their wives are shopping. They've got nothing to do for

552
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,719
Speaker 2: three hours, but come in and see me. So I

553
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 2: used to like days better, right, and so on the

554
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 2: weekend days was good.

555
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 1: It was a time.

556
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: That was the time. But because I'm such a talker,

557
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 2: it came easy to me to do the big girl hustle.

558
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 2: And I had some of the best trainers. I had

559
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 2: this girl who was from Vietnam, so I'm like early twenties.

560
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 2: She was old, and she was like nearly forty, you

561
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 2: know what I mean. And she taught me everything she knew,

562
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,719
Speaker 2: and she was amazing because she was in Korea in

563
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 2: the B Girl Times and in Vietnam in the B

564
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: Girl Times.

565
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: There apparently.

566
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 2: She taught me everything. And then we had private clients

567
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: that we had. We got like twenty thirty thousand dollars

568
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 2: out of in one day. One was an Australian travel agent.

569
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 2: I remember that was a bad one.

570
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: Well, you know, look at that, and we talk about

571
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: the men and the women doing that. It's almost like

572
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: some people might say it's exploiting women, others might say

573
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: it's exploiting men. I'm interested to get your take on it,

574
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: because that's how I quite look at it. Well, the

575
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: women are the ones that are in control, exactly one.

576
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 2: It's still to this day that way. Everybody has this

577
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 2: opinion or this idea that everybody who's in the sex industry,

578
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 2: no matter what part of the sex industry, is there

579
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: under duress. You're talking about a minor one percent who

580
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 2: you will find in certain areas that's.

581
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: Where that happens, where they're forced.

582
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 2: They're not forced in it in a lot of other

583
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 2: places there are you know, if you like, if you

584
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 2: go into these places, you can tell one hundred percent

585
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 2: of the time whether those girls are there happily or

586
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 2: not happily. If they're not happy, you know that something's

587
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 2: being taken from it.

588
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,719
Speaker 1: Does a sisterhood look after the ones that are not

589
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: happy in that environment? Like if you one that you think, well,

590
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: you're just not cut out for this.

591
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 2: Well, it's not the one, it's the place. It's the

592
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 2: place itself. You know, there are places where there are

593
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 2: government run and non government run institutions that go to

594
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 2: these places and also go to the girls and try

595
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 2: to give them as much information as possible about.

596
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: Things where it might take it to the next level

597
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: where they're virtually obliged to have sex if it came

598
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: down to that.

599
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 2: But that's in that certain area.

600
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: Okay, take us into the stripper locker room or change rooms,

601
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: dressing room. When you're sitting there, you said, there's fifteen

602
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: girls and there's only one on stage at the time.

603
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 2: What's a conversation like the conversations like I wonder if

604
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 2: there's going to be a big, big whale in today.

605
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: Did you make friendships in that environment, like the girls

606
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: you're working with and all that you share the common bomb.

607
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. I actually have a photo of all of us together.

608
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 2: I can't somebody was leaving. I can't remember who was

609
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 2: leaving and we were out for lunch. I should have

610
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 2: bought it. It's a really good photo. But yeah, we

611
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 2: were all friends. I mean once we're out of the club.

612
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 2: It's not like we socialized that much. All the cocktail

613
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 2: waitresses were female, but so I sort of hung out

614
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 2: with cocktail waitresses because they were more like afterwards, because

615
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: they were more on my type. Because you know, we

616
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: went surfing and everything, just doing other things.

617
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: Was there a stigma for you in that being a stripper,

618
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: you weren't.

619
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 2: Nobody knew you walked in dress and you walked out dress.

620
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 2: Nobody knew my grandmother when my grandmother came over. My

621
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 2: grandmother was a light of my life. And my grandmother

622
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,959
Speaker 2: came over with my aunt who's still alive. And I

623
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 2: was at that time stripping and myke we knew it

624
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,239
Speaker 2: was happening, right, and they wanted to see where I

625
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 2: was working.

626
00:32:58,720 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: That's a little bit.

627
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 2: Mark said, okay, well, we'll go down at eight o'clock

628
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 2: or whatever. So I went up to Marge and I said, Marge,

629
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 2: my grandmother and my aunt are coming in at eight

630
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 2: o'clock and I'd like to be costail waitressing because I

631
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 2: still have my outfit. And she said, yeah, no problem.

632
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 2: So Nana and Jan came in and I was hotail

633
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 2: waitressing with Mark. They watched a couple of strippers do

634
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 2: the stripping, saw that it was all nice and you know,

635
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 2: neat and tidy and above board and on color Kawa,

636
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 2: and then left and then I got changed when.

637
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: Again, okay, well, it's a different experience, the working as

638
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: a stripper of cocktail waitress and also studying studying to

639
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: be a nurse. It's two different types of work. What

640
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: did you always want to be a nurse and stripping

641
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: was that to subsidize The study was that it was

642
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: money money driven.

643
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 2: It wasn't money driven. It was coren get a job

644
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 2: that you kind of don't really have to think about

645
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 2: because you're thinking about nursing.

646
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, switch off you.

647
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 2: I'm not really, I'm not really. I don't want to

648
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 2: be I don't even want to be a waitress in

649
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 2: a restaurant because that's too much like hard work, you know,

650
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 2: in the middle of Kolakawa. I mean, mike your key

651
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 2: and just no, no, no no. I can do this

652
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 2: and sit down when it's not busy and relax and

653
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 2: if I don't feel like working, if for some reason

654
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 2: I'm having an off day and I don't feel like working,

655
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,280
Speaker 2: all I have to do is turn up for the shift,

656
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 2: not make any money, and they give you fifty dollars anyway,

657
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 2: because you were turned up for work, right so and

658
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 2: for your time stripping. So it was just it was

659
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 2: a way to be more relaxed of a night because

660
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 2: I went to.

661
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 1: Apply yourself a study with making that thousand dollars a day,

662
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: what had some big days, some small days that just

663
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: depend once. Did you call them the whale? Yeah? That

664
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,399
Speaker 1: cashed up my biggest day.

665
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 2: I remember, my biggest day in those days was three thousand,

666
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 2: six hundred dollars.

667
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: Would would be funny huge now.

668
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 2: And he was a guy who was over in Hawaii.

669
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 2: He was young, he was like in his early thirties,

670
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 2: and he was over in Hawaii trying to get his

671
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 2: marriage back together. But he'd he'd come over to Hawaii

672
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 2: his wife had left him. He was from Seattle, Washington,

673
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 2: and his why it's funny how things you remember, and

674
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 2: his wife had left him in Seattle, Washington months before.

675
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 2: This was around Christmas time. It was around my birthday,

676
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: so November. And anyway, he came to Hawaii and she

677
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 2: left him with the baby. They had like one year.

678
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: When you say left, not just gone home later.

679
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 2: Left him with the baby. So he bought tickets for

680
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 2: Hawaii for himself and they and her. She never turned up.

681
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 2: So he'd been in Hawaii for a week by himself

682
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 2: with the child, and he gave the child to a

683
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 2: babysitter for the day. I was working day shift this

684
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 2: Saturday day shift, the ones that were the good ones,

685
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 2: and he came in and he said to me, I

686
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 2: know exactly what goes on in here. You don't have

687
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 2: to tell me. Let's just go for it. Let's just

688
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 2: go into the banquette. Let's not even worry about the front.

689
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 2: And I was like, And he turned out to be

690
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 2: one of the loveliest guys I've ever met my life.

691
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 2: Spent all his money on me that he had that

692
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 2: he was going to spend on his wife, that he

693
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 2: didn't spend.

694
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 1: That revenge, I think so.

695
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 2: I think so. He gave me a hopey Indian bracelet

696
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,479
Speaker 2: for my birthday that he had on He just gave

697
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: it to me, and then after he left, with no regrets,

698
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 2: he just said, that's enough. Let's just leave it at this.

699
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 2: He came back and there's a security other walkway and

700
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 2: security guards standing at the top. And I said to

701
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 2: the security guard whatever his name was, he's going to

702
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 2: bring his baby back, one year old back, just to

703
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 2: show me. And so he came in, I met the baby,

704
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 2: and he left. I never saw him again, okay, and

705
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 2: made three thy six hundred dollars.

706
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: Well, if it's a transaction where everyone feels good about it,

707
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 1: he might that might have been his revenge. And that, yeah,

708
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 1: tell if I spent it at a strip joint. I

709
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: spent all the money at the strip joint. What about

710
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: you've discussed a good person there. There would be some

711
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 1: pigs there as well.

712
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, there was nasty girls, but there wasn't any

713
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 2: bad girls, not really, because we had security guards. So

714
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 2: the security guards if anybody started playing up. And this

715
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:50,280
Speaker 2: is remember that Hawaii is the military base in the Pacific.

716
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 2: So the grunts as we call them, on the fifteenth

717
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: and thirtieth of each month get paid and they all

718
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 2: come out. Any of them player and they're the ones

719
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 2: that will play any of them play up. And our

720
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 2: security guards were big Samoans.

721
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:06,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're not small dudes.

722
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 2: You don't play around with them. So all in all,

723
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 2: there's no time I can remember working there that I

724
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 2: had any problems. I worked Marge and I had a

725
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 2: falling out over something I can't even remember what, and

726
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 2: I went to the competition which didn't have the same reputation,

727
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: and all of the bad boys went there.

728
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 1: Because there there was a gangster element in Hawaiians.

729
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there was like the Samoan gangs, and there

730
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 2: was the White American games, you know, I mean.

731
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: It was a cocktail too, and as you said, like

732
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: a military base and then the hard ass Hawaiian surfers. Yeah,

733
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: potentially heavy place. So four years you got through your

734
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 1: nursing and you started working in intensive care units.

735
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I started working after two years in only in Hawaii.

736
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 2: In America, you can do an associate degree or you

737
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 2: do your bachelor's. Here is only well, I don't know

738
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 2: how long it is. It's years, it's other three or

739
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 2: four years, don't know. But over there it's two years

740
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 2: or four years. Associate degree. You can have all your

741
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 2: life not even worry about doing a bachelor's and you're

742
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 2: still a registered nurse. So I did the associate degree

743
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 2: and I started working at the same time as doing

744
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 2: part time doing a bachelor's right, still working, quit then

745
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 2: quit stripping, went to do nursing with an associate degree,

746
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 2: still doing college, but only like two days a week

747
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 2: because I wasn't going to burn myself out, and started

748
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,399
Speaker 2: working in intensive care. You did, Like I started working

749
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 2: nursing and then thought, I just really want to do

750
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 2: intensive care, So you do. I think it was like

751
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 2: a three month course within the hospital that you work in,

752
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 2: and we were like a class of girls, you know

753
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 2: what I mean there's classes that went through together and

754
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 2: started working in intensive care.

755
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: How do you find that? Because people often say, like,

756
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: I was a homicide detective for a long time, and

757
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: how did you handle what you saw and did as

758
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: a homicide detective? But intensive care unit, that's to me,

759
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: that's more confronting than homicide.

760
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved it. I loved it. I couldn't I

761
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 2: could other than emergency. I couldn't imagine doing any other

762
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 2: kind of nursing because the boring stuff you don't do boring.

763
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 2: I don't, I can't. You know, like I nursed Bet

764
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 2: Middler's father, which was a really big deal so in

765
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 2: and when it got boring, I didn't nurse him anymore.

766
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: He went downstairs. But he was actually quite boring. It

767
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,320
Speaker 2: was actually quite boring when he was with us as well,

768
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 2: because what happens is when you're on days off. I

769
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 2: don't know what they do here, but when you're on

770
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 2: days off, when you come back from days off, you

771
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 2: sit at the monitors. So in every intensive care unit

772
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 2: you'll see a desk of makeence right. You sit there

773
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 2: because you're being getting back into work, right, don't slam

774
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 2: you with a triple A bypass, right, So they just

775
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 2: get you to sit at the monitors anyway, you say,

776
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 2: you take the phone calls, you do the ekg's and

777
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:14,959
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff, or ec Jesus, you say.

778
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,359
Speaker 2: And I'm sitting there, it's like nine o'clock at night,

779
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 2: and they're all separate rooms, all glass stuff rooms. And

780
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 2: I see this name on the monitors, Middler. I'm thinking, oh, yeah,

781
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,439
Speaker 2: right whatever, And about nine o'clock at night, this phone

782
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 2: call comes through and there's this voice and I was

783
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 2: a bit middle of fan, like I'm talking fan, and

784
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 2: I said, Kayser, I see you. Howm I help you?

785
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 2: And they and she said, Hi, it's bed here. Yeah,

786
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 2: and she said, my father, I can't remember his first name,

787
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 2: Midler is in there with a heart attack, and I

788
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 2: just want to know how he's doing. And I like

789
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 2: lost it and I said, miss Midler, he's doing as

790
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: well as can be inspected under the circumstances, which is

791
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 2: the line, right, But he's doing fine. She said, okay,

792
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 2: could you let him know I'll be there tomorrow. And

793
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 2: I was like okay, And I got up from the

794
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 2: desk and I went, oh my god, I was just

795
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 2: talking to middle and so When my head nurse came

796
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 2: in the next morning, like I was on like I

797
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 2: think I was on the two till ten or whatever.

798
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 2: I came in and I said to her, Okay, Grace,

799
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 2: I want to look after Middler. I don't want to

800
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 2: look after even though it's only She goes, he's only

801
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 2: a heart attack. I said, then give me three heart attacks. Fine, yeah,

802
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 2: And so she came in. Bet Middler came in. I

803
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 2: got to look after him. And with heart attack victims,

804
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 2: you have to treat them like there's nothing wrong with them,

805
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 2: because every heart attack victim feels like it's the end.

806
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 2: It's like, oh my god, heart attack. It's just it's

807
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 2: the worst. And there's a person over here who's had

808
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 2: a trip, a bypass or a double lung transplant. You

809
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 2: know what I mean, You're okay. So you've got to

810
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 2: get him up. You've got to joke around with them,

811
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 2: You've got to get the moving. You got to them

812
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 2: talking something about anything other than their heart. So that's

813
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 2: what I was doing. But Middle came in with her

814
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 2: then new husband who she's still married to, and I

815
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 2: was joking around with a father, and I'm going get

816
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 2: their up. You know, you got to do this. You

817
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 2: got to do that, niece. She's going. She said to me, Korean,

818
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 2: that's my father you're speaking to And I said, yeah, bet,

819
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 2: I'm not you.

820
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: I got it.

821
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 2: I got to get enough. Anyway, she stayed for a

822
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 2: couple of hours and then she turned around to me

823
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 2: and she goes, I just wanted to tell you Korean

824
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 2: class I act. I said, thanks, Bed, I learned it

825
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 2: all from you. It was. That was probably the highlight

826
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 2: of my life was that. And then I was the

827
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 2: person who didn't get the autograph. I didn't get an order.

828
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:54,800
Speaker 1: You're too cool? Yeah, too cool. But that was around

829
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 1: the time she had that movie out, The Rose, which

830
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: was huge.

831
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 2: I probably would be around there.

832
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was a bigger thing in those days. Okay,

833
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: so you've cocaine got hold of you, got hold of

834
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: you in that you couldn't function without it, Like what

835
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: was your.

836
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 2: Got hold of me? Like I thought I couldn't function

837
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 2: without it, and so I thought I couldn't survive without it.

838
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 2: And then I was working with a nurse who I

839
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 2: wasn't into it. She was. And in nursing you have

840
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 2: to have two people sign off on morphine or any

841
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 2: of the big drafts right, So she was into speedballing.

842
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 2: So it was her and I would sign out the

843
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 2: morphine and then once you'd use the morphine once she

844
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 2: had to throw the rest away, and her and I

845
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 2: signed out that she'd thrown it away into her pocket.

846
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 1: Yep.

847
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 2: So for her to do that, she had to have cocaine.

848
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 2: I had the deal I had the dealer.

849
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 1: So you get to that point where you realize that

850
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 1: or you thought, and you're saying, it's psychological. So you've

851
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,080
Speaker 1: had the highs, you're coming down and you think I

852
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: need to hit a cacaine. That just I never got

853
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 1: to it.

854
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 2: I never, No, No, I didn't. Don't think I ever

855
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 2: got to that point. I can't say that I did,

856
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 2: because I wouldn't find myself going out while I was

857
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 2: taking it. Yes, and when I kind of felt like

858
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 2: that was when I was working on it. And I

859
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 2: remember one time one of the head nurses, because I

860
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 2: sounded all blocked up all the time. One of the

861
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 2: head nurses, I had got a phone call from the

862
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 2: dealer and he she said, this girl said to me, karein,

863
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 2: there's a guy on the phone with the same cold

864
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 2: that you've got.

865
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 1: Okay, So they wake up to it.

866
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they knew and that was kind of my

867
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 2: wake up call for a couple of months. Yea, And

868
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 2: I straightened up for a couple of months, but I

869
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 2: always went back to it and I started hitting it.

870
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 1: You know.

871
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 2: There was like a couple of years that I was

872
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,399
Speaker 2: hitting it, which was like you didn't have to worry

873
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,879
Speaker 2: about doing this all the time, you know, And because

874
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 2: I was a nurse, I knew what I was doing

875
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 2: and stuff like that.

876
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: Did that give you confidence? Like playing with the dry

877
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 1: until not playing using the drugs? At your medical background?

878
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: You felt that I know my limits, I know how to.

879
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 2: Well you don't. You kind of think you know your limits? Yeah,

880
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,919
Speaker 2: you don't know your limits. But I felt confident in

881
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 2: putting a syringe in my arm because I knew what

882
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 2: I was doing, you know, And a lot of people

883
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 2: came to me to put a syringe in their you know,

884
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 2: because it was just an easy way to.

885
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: Do it when you were nursing too. That's when AIDS

886
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 1: started to come in. Was that over? What was what

887
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: was that?

888
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 2: Like?

889
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: Did people understand what was going on?

890
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,280
Speaker 2: I was working, I was so as well as working

891
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 2: in ICU. I used to it because of my cocaine

892
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 2: addiction because they needed the extra money because I didn't

893
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,959
Speaker 2: want to go back to stripping at this time, right,

894
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 2: and I'm still in college, so I'm juggling a lot

895
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 2: of balls in the air. I worked at another hospital

896
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:54,359
Speaker 2: just as a relief nurse, right, and this hospital had

897
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 2: the first case of there was no name to it,

898
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 2: of this viruses came in and he was a nineteen

899
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 2: year old kid. He'd been on holiday in Maui and

900
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 2: he got really bad kidney pains. So there'd been whispers

901
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 2: in New York and San Francisco of this virus that

902
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 2: was going around still with no name because Reagan didn't

903
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 2: want to name it. Nobody wanted to know about it.

904
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 2: And we got this guy, this kid in. He died

905
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,280
Speaker 2: within I think two days, because they had no clue

906
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,720
Speaker 2: that virus had gone through his body and he'd only

907
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 2: had two sexual encounters and he'd got it through whatever.

908
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 2: Because the main guy who got it, who started it,

909
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 2: was an airline steward in New York. He used to

910
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 2: go to the bath houses in San Francisco, and the

911
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 2: airline stewards in San Francisco used to come to Hawaiian

912
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 2: and go to the bath houses. It was a straight

913
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 2: through thing and I remember when it first started. We

914
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:55,879
Speaker 2: used to close the doors on them. They all had

915
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 2: private rooms, and we used to have to mask up

916
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 2: like has met. We used to have to mark and

917
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,720
Speaker 2: the guys who or the people who delivered the food

918
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 2: would stand at the door and push the tray towards

919
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 2: them because it was worse than if you could put

920
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 2: COVID on steroids. That's what it was like, because no

921
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 2: COVID had a name. Ages didn't even have a name,

922
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 2: you know, And there was no such thing as being

923
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:29,320
Speaker 2: HIV positive versus AIDS. You had AIDS, you had deficiency.

924
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 1: Don't touch the glasses, don't do.

925
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 2: Anything, don't go anywhere, don't breathe the same air. Ryan

926
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 2: White was the poster child for a kid who was

927
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 2: kicked out of every school that was known in one

928
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 2: of the states. Yeah, it was terrible, terrible. It was

929
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 2: a terrible time, but it's sort of for people who

930
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 2: were around. Like my best friend died last year and

931
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 2: he was a thirty eight year survivor of HIV and

932
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 2: he didn't die of eates. He didn't die of anything really.

933
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:03,879
Speaker 2: He died of cancer undiagnosed don't even there anyway. He

934
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 2: we just we were brought up just to know what

935
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 2: to do in cases. So when COVID came along, Jason

936
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 2: and I were pretty comfortable because it was kind of

937
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 2: like we were going back to when AIDS started and

938
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 2: what we used to do then, you know, and it

939
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 2: was like masks, gloves, you know.

940
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 1: That was that was the thing.

941
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 2: And people who didn't wear masks and COVID I have

942
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 2: the wrath of care.

943
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: In on you. You went, after all, you're a big

944
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 1: mask believer.

945
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 2: Oh and vaccine, don't even go there without vaccines?

946
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, And that that was from your experience.

947
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 2: And I lost forty friends as forty friends and so

948
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,439
Speaker 2: therefore I didn't lose that many with COVID because people

949
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 2: were getting vaccinated, because people were wearing masks, and because

950
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 2: COVID had a name, people understand, you know, people understand.

951
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: Not as much of a stigma either, I would suggest,

952
00:49:58,000 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: because with.

953
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:03,919
Speaker 2: COVID had the stigma had a terrible sticker. I mean,

954
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 2: you couldn't go you couldn't go into a nightclub like

955
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,760
Speaker 2: I used to hang around the gay nightclubs right with Mark.

956
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 2: And one of the big ones in Hawaii was rulers.

957
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:18,399
Speaker 2: And I remember one time this guy who worked there,

958
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 2: Mark went up to him and goes, oh my god,

959
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 2: you've lost some weight. He goes, no, I haven't. I

960
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 2: haven't lost a pound. Have I've been working out? I

961
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 2: haven't lost a pound. Because it was like, oh, he's.

962
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 1: Got strange horrible time, but strange time as well. You

963
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,760
Speaker 1: left nursing and then you start working on a cruise

964
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: cruise liner. That don't sound like a happy time for it.

965
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 2: It was the best time. What was your role with

966
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 2: I was a waitress, cocktail waitress, and then so I

967
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 2: was a cocktail waitress, and then I worked as a waiter.

968
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 2: So you know, you do the dinners, the breakfast, lunch dinners,

969
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,839
Speaker 2: and midnight buffets. You can't get a better job than

970
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 2: doing seven day cruises around the Hawaiian Islands. You're telling it.

971
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: Out, Okay, it sounds sounds ideally amazing. You were supplementing

972
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: your income. But at that point in time, you were dealing.

973
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 1: That That's how I got on is that was the

974
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 1: progression into using dealing? Was that the natural progression? Because

975
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: I hear a lot of times and people don't even

976
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,399
Speaker 1: realize they're dealing. They're just giving drugs to their friends.

977
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 2: And so my deal was Victor and Victor and I

978
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,840
Speaker 2: knew this guy I was nursing. I was dealing for Victor.

979
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 2: And Victor said, there's wants to buy from us because

980
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 2: he was dealing. He was buying from us enough to

981
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 2: deal on the ships, right, So he said, why didn't

982
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 2: you get on the ships and you can be dealing too,

983
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 2: And that's what.

984
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:43,839
Speaker 1: Happened, okay, And the dealing on the well drugs back

985
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,919
Speaker 1: then it was like there's a lot of protections now

986
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:49,800
Speaker 1: of stopping that type of stuff, but it was pretty

987
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,839
Speaker 1: easy back then. Do you mean to get like law

988
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: enforcement like getting through people weren't aware of it. So

989
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:57,319
Speaker 1: it was very well.

990
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 2: The thing was everybody from the captain down on the

991
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 2: ship was doing coke. This is the eighties. This was like,

992
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 2: this is like greed is good. This is like you

993
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 2: know those movies with Martin Sheen that you know, glorified

994
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 2: money and glorified coke and.

995
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: You know whatever, everything everyone's happy, everybody's nobody cares, wasn'tma

996
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 1: and nobody.

997
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 2: There was no security guard checking your bag said that

998
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 2: when you went back on the ship.

999
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: Well cocaine like it's Studio fifty four, that type of

1000
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 1: that type of stuff. It was just what that's what

1001
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 1: the trendy people did.

1002
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:37,399
Speaker 2: You just walked in, that's all, you know. I mean,

1003
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 2: it'd be weird not to find somebody without coke. That

1004
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 2: was the thing, you know, Like when I was in

1005
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 2: New York, I went to was we were visiting, and

1006
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 2: I went to Studio fifty four, which was kind of

1007
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 2: like you know, they they kind of make it into

1008
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 2: this thing that it really wasn't. It was like a

1009
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 2: lot of people went there. Yes, it was hard to

1010
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 2: get in. We just happened to know a hair addresser

1011
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 2: to the stars, and so we got in and it

1012
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 2: was cool or it was okay, But I mean I

1013
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 2: had a good life back in Hawaii, so it didn't

1014
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 2: really matter. But we also went to this party that

1015
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 2: was in a place called Bonds International Casino and it

1016
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 2: was just new and it was a massive warehouse and

1017
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 2: they had so this is going right back. So first

1018
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:24,879
Speaker 2: of all, Mike and I were really good dances right

1019
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 2: as a couple. We were really good dances myself, but

1020
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,359
Speaker 2: so everybody was watching his dance and everybody's just doing

1021
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 2: bumps of coke while you're watching, and they had the

1022
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 2: stairs that made a tune. Now, this is before that

1023
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 2: movie with Tom Hanks came out where they do the

1024
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 2: thing in Fao Schwartz, where is it? Where this was

1025
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 2: before that and was on the stairs were a piano

1026
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 2: and they had zeppelins flying around and Grace Jones was

1027
00:53:54,120 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 2: the entertainment that compared to Studio fifty four. It was

1028
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 2: a party that was amazing, you know.

1029
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 1: Okay, well, you were definitely living the good life. We

1030
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: might take a break here. Okay, when we get back,

1031
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 1: we're going to have to bring you down a notch

1032
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 1: because you've got to do some time in prison. You've

1033
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: got you've got to pay for your sins. We're also

1034
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:21,320
Speaker 1: going to talk about your your career. Your later career

1035
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 1: is managing brothels and different things. So fascinating story. I

1036
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: love the way you tell it. There's a thousand things

1037
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 1: I want to ask you. You're talking through it, but

1038
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: you're taking us into a world that a lot of

1039
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: people don't get to see.

1040
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 2: So well. Yeah, and it's a shame because when I

1041
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 2: talk to people, they're always like, oh my god, and

1042
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 2: I'm like.

1043
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 1: Go and live. That's just live living life. Yeah, Okay, well,

1044
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,839
Speaker 1: we'll be back shortly, but i'll just prepare you that

1045
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: you've got to do some time. Yeah, all right, cheers,