Speaker 1: Live on Sky News. This is Shari.
Speaker 2: Good evening and welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: I'm Danikiti, Giorgio filling in this week for Shari.
Speaker 2: Marks and coming up tonight. All China had to do.
Speaker 3: Was put on a banquet and do a musical sing along,
Speaker 3: and it's wood our Prime Minister. What has Anthony Alberanesi
Speaker 3: actually achieved during his trip so far? Big Australia keeps
Speaker 3: getting bigger. A record number of arrivals entered the country
Speaker 3: last month. A British girl is sent home from her
Speaker 3: school's diversity day.
Speaker 2: For wearing a union jack dress.
Speaker 3: We'll go live to London for the latest on this
Speaker 3: identity madness. And young adults are refusing to have kids
Speaker 3: because they have climate anxiety.
Speaker 2: You heard that correct. More on this climate zelatory shortly,
Speaker 2: but first tonight.
Speaker 3: What has actually changed in our relationship with China during
Speaker 3: Anthony Alberanesi's trip, Because it seems this is the same
Speaker 3: old China making all of the rules and the Prime
Speaker 3: Minister bends over backwards to a peace. In fact, all
Speaker 3: it takes, apparently is a big banquet and a musical
Speaker 3: sing along and Albow is charmed by the Red Communist lights.
Speaker 1: I've got to.
Speaker 4: Say that the band there in the Great Hall played
Speaker 4: a different version of Paul Kelly's to Her Door of Midnight,
Speaker 4: Earl's Power and the Passion of a range of songs
Speaker 4: as well. That obviously took them a long period of time,
Speaker 4: and those gestures matter, respect matters between countries, and I
Speaker 4: think I took that as being a very warm gesture indeed,
Speaker 4: and they did it very well, I must say as
Speaker 4: well powder Finger as well, they did the full kitten kervertle,
Speaker 4: and so it was a splendid occasion.
Speaker 3: Wow, dining room diplomacy in the Great Hall, throwing a
Speaker 3: bit of Peter Garrett, Paul Kelly and some flattery and boom,
Speaker 3: you can apparently sell anything to this Prime Minister. I mean,
Speaker 3: never mind, China is our greatest strategic threat, but a
Speaker 3: couple of chords of power and the passion and the
Speaker 3: power is all yours, Shijingping. I mean, if China wasn't
Speaker 3: so dangerous, you'd laugh and make no mistake, Beijing is
Speaker 3: absolutely reveling in the pleasantries, the pomp and ceremony and
Speaker 3: how it looks to the world, especially at a time
Speaker 3: when Australia is under pressure from its number one ally
Speaker 3: the United States, to increased defense spending and declare what
Speaker 3: it would do should China go to war with Taiwan. So,
Speaker 3: of course, the front page of China's mouthpiece, the China
Speaker 3: Daily is today hailing the visit a triumph, saying the
Speaker 3: turnaround in China Australia ties benefits both and that President
Speaker 3: She told the PM that the turnaround of China Australia
Speaker 3: relations has proved adhering to the principles of treating each
Speaker 3: other as equals. Seeking common ground while shelving differences is
Speaker 3: in line with the fundamental interests of both China and
Speaker 3: Australia as well as their peoples. In other words, look out,
Speaker 3: Donald Trump, if you want China on side, be a
Speaker 3: lapdog like Anthony Albinizi. But the hypocrisy of it, China
Speaker 3: has not treated us as it's equal. Remember the live
Speaker 3: fire drills off our coasts, the spiceships sent our way,
Speaker 3: the military near misses, the punitive tariffs and Australian goods,
Speaker 3: and of course a lack of investigation into the origins
Speaker 3: of coronavirus. This is of course, all about how Albo's
Speaker 3: visit looks for Beijing. To the world, and the handsome
Speaker 3: boy from Australia is all too willing to oblige, as
Speaker 3: he stood at the Great Wall of China today with
Speaker 3: his Rabbito's hat at top his head.
Speaker 4: Here today, of course, I have the sense of history
Speaker 4: following in the footsteps of the Labor Prime Minister GoF Whitlam,
Speaker 4: who was the first Prime minister to visit here in
Speaker 4: nineteen seventy three. It followed the correct decision that he
Speaker 4: made as leader of the Labor Party in nineteen seventy one,
Speaker 4: and that was of course at the time when that
Speaker 4: was a controversial decision to recognize the People's Republic of China.
Speaker 3: Well, it was a very different China when GoF Whitlam
Speaker 3: visited in the seventies. I mean, first and foremost, China
Speaker 3: wasn't conducting light fire drills off our coast and secondly,
Speaker 3: it wasn't undermining our sovereignty in the process. But the
Speaker 3: PM can't bring himself to push back, and that is
Speaker 3: the issue.
Speaker 4: I say the same thing in Beijing as I say
Speaker 4: in Bankstown, which is that the Australian government supports free
Speaker 4: and fair trade. It's in the interests of the world
Speaker 4: to have free and fair trade and will continue to
Speaker 4: engage that way. I've seen that will cooperate where we can,
Speaker 4: disagree where we must, but engage in our national interest.
Speaker 3: Well, what does the PM actually disagree with China on
Speaker 3: and what has actually changed to benefit Australia.
Speaker 2: Who really is cooperating.
Speaker 3: Where they can and disagreeing where we must, Because it
Speaker 3: seems there's a lot of what China wants but not
Speaker 3: what we want. In fact, Beijing has played elbow like
Speaker 3: a puppet. China's state media issued this morning today to
Speaker 3: the PM in an editorial in The Global Times, saying
Speaker 3: at present there are specific issues between China and Australia
Speaker 3: that need to be discussed, such as the lease of
Speaker 3: daw And Port and the expansion of the China Australia
Speaker 3: Free Trade Agreement. But the PM today said he didn't
Speaker 3: even raise the issue during a meeting with Chinese premiere
Speaker 3: last night.
Speaker 1: Did that issue come up in your two hour discussion
Speaker 1: with Premier lead?
Speaker 2: And secondly, are.
Speaker 5: You are you prepared for Australia to be put back
Speaker 5: into the deep trees over that issue?
Speaker 4: Well, the answer is no, and the answer as well
Speaker 4: that shouldn't come as any surprise. I've had the same
Speaker 4: position as when I was the Shadow Infrastructure Minister when
Speaker 4: the decision was made to provide a federal incentive by
Speaker 4: the Liberal Party to flog off the Port of Darwin.
Speaker 4: My position hasn't changed over a long period of time,
Speaker 4: not to the first.
Speaker 3: And yesterday the PM insisted the Port of Darwin did
Speaker 3: not need to be raised with President Chijing Ping, despite
Speaker 3: promising to take it back from China.
Speaker 4: I don't need to sorry to jump in none. It
Speaker 4: wasn't raised. I can't be clear.
Speaker 1: As any were any issues raised by him.
Speaker 4: I can't be clearer than to say the question I
Speaker 4: was asked was not raised.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's so clear the Prime Minister is terrified
Speaker 3: of offending and this latest warning from China tells you
Speaker 3: that when Alia does something that anoys Beijing, we go
Speaker 3: back to square one again in the deep freeze. The
Speaker 3: Global Times went on to say there are also practical obstacles,
Speaker 3: especially the tendencies toward Pan politization and Pan securization, as
Speaker 3: well as interference from third parties. Now clearly this is
Speaker 3: a veiled reference to the Trump administration. China is publicly
Speaker 3: throwing its support behind Anthony Albanesi while trying to drive
Speaker 3: a wedge between Australia and the United States when China
Speaker 3: sees the US and ANSAs as a military threat to
Speaker 3: its own ambitions. Premierly also repeatedly pressured Anthony Abanesi to
Speaker 3: treat Chinese companies in a fair, open and non discriminatory manner.
Speaker 3: During a speech to Australian and Chinese business leaders, he said,
Speaker 3: we hope that the Australian side will treat Chinese enterprises
Speaker 3: visiting Australia fairly and properly solve the problems encountered by
Speaker 3: enterprises in market access, investment review and other aspects. I
Speaker 3: fancy China dictating to us what fair market access actually
Speaker 3: looks like. Remember China's tariffs on balley, beef, wine, cotton, lobsters,
Speaker 3: the issues that created and all because of Australia's push
Speaker 3: for an independent investigation into the origins of COVID nineteen.
Speaker 3: But Albo seems to think this is all in the
Speaker 3: spirit of diplomacy.
Speaker 4: And one of the things that my government does is
Speaker 4: engage in diplomacy. We don't shout with megaphones. We engage
Speaker 4: in diplomacy. That is in Australia's interest.
Speaker 2: So really nothing has changed.
Speaker 3: It's the same old China making all of the rules
Speaker 3: and it's all for show for the world, and Albo
Speaker 3: is enabling it by being so weak on the world
Speaker 3: stage and not standing up for our values.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know. Maybe it'll take a.
Speaker 3: Musical sing along for the Prime Minister to understand what's
Speaker 3: at stake. After all, all it takes to wu Albo
Speaker 3: is a bit of Midnight Oil's power and passion. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and Peter Garrett saying there, sometimes you've got to take
Speaker 3: the hardest line.
Speaker 2: What a shame the Handsome boy didn't get that memo.
Speaker 3: Joining us now is former Victorian Liberal Party president Michael
Speaker 3: Kroger and former Labor Senator Graham Richardson.
Speaker 2: Hi to both of you.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining me on the show.
Speaker 3: Let's start with Anthony Abernezi's meetings in China and dealings
Speaker 3: with China. In fact, in the last hour the Prime
Speaker 3: Minister has been meeting with Chinese diplomats for a bit
Speaker 3: of panda diplomacy.
Speaker 2: Have a look at this.
Speaker 4: When I hosted Premier League in Australia last year for
Speaker 4: our annual Leader's dialogue. Premier League graciously agreed to the
Speaker 4: request that we had made to have two of your
Speaker 4: ambassadors known as pandas visit Adelaide and to replace the
Speaker 4: pandas who have been such an important positive feature of
Speaker 4: building the relations between Australia and this province in particular.
Speaker 4: And I thank these province for the arrival of our
Speaker 4: two newest guests in Adelaide, who have been so well received.
Speaker 3: It's all very sweet, all very kind, is it. And
Speaker 3: let me just give you both a reminder. This is
Speaker 3: all it takes to woo Anthony Albanezi.
Speaker 1: I've got to.
Speaker 4: Say that the band there in the Great Hall played
Speaker 4: a different version of Paul Kelly's to Her Door of Midnight,
Speaker 4: Earl's Power and the Passion powder Finger as well they
Speaker 4: did the full kitten Kerbrtle and so it was a
Speaker 4: splendid occasion.
Speaker 3: Michael, nothing like a musical sing along from our greatest
Speaker 3: strategic threat to get the PM on side. I mean,
Speaker 3: you've got to actually wonder what Australia is getting out
Speaker 3: of this. I mean, perhaps if we put it to music,
Speaker 3: it might help the PM understand that it's China making
Speaker 3: the rules.
Speaker 6: Well, we're eaving a big dose of international humiliation and embarrassment.
Speaker 6: I mean, seriously, this bloke is so diminished after this visit.
Speaker 6: You'd think a leader of a strong, powerful, proud middle
Speaker 6: power like Australia. You think the leader, in the hours
Speaker 6: of discussions he's had with the Chinese leadership would raise
Speaker 6: would raise net zero. Why doesn't he ask the Chinese
Speaker 6: about not committing to zero, about them building dozens and
Speaker 6: dozens of coal fire power plants, if that's a great
Speaker 6: concern to Alban easy, Why doesn't he ask the Chinese
Speaker 6: about their intentions towards Taiwan. Why doesn't he ask them
Speaker 6: about their relationship with Russia and the fact that they
Speaker 6: are supplying the weapons that are killing Ukrainians. And on
Speaker 6: the trade issue, why wouldn't he ask them to stop
Speaker 6: producing the world's greatest number of fake goods, I mean
Speaker 6: fake handbags, fake wallets, any leather goods, fake watches, all
Speaker 6: these fakes ripping off Western brands come out of China.
Speaker 6: You would have thought he might have said, on behalf
Speaker 6: of the world, can you stop producing these fakes? But
Speaker 6: all we get is sort of pandas and high tea
Speaker 6: and midnight oil. Alban easy is motivated by one thing,
Speaker 6: not offending voters in Benelong Deacon and Mensies threes and
Speaker 6: any other seat Chisholm, which has got a large proportion
Speaker 6: of Chinese voters. That's basically what this blake's doing about
Speaker 6: doing over there. Otherwise, this whole trip has been a
Speaker 6: total humiliation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels like a junket to be honest, I
Speaker 3: just don't understand what's.
Speaker 2: Been achieved here.
Speaker 3: And Graham, the Primesis has said today he wanted to
Speaker 3: be like GoF Whitlam when he visited China back in
Speaker 3: the seventies.
Speaker 2: I'm fair to say that.
Speaker 3: This is a very different China that we are dealing
Speaker 3: with right now compared to them. I mean, we're talking
Speaker 3: live fire drills off our coast, military near missus, punitive
Speaker 3: tariffs on Australian goods, and all because we dared to
Speaker 3: even say we need a thorough and independent investigation into
Speaker 3: the origins of COVID nineteen.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the Chinese reacted very badly to Australia seeking the truth.
Speaker 5: And yet you know, seeking the truths has got to
Speaker 5: be our job, not just now but forever. We're not
Speaker 5: in the business of nonsense, which is unfortunately still there
Speaker 5: with the Chinese. They're protestations over what happened in the
Speaker 5: lab and what didn't. I think it's fairly pathetic.
Speaker 3: And Graham, what do you say about the Prime Minister's
Speaker 3: visits so far?
Speaker 2: Realistically? What has he achieved?
Speaker 5: Not a great deal. I don't think he was ever
Speaker 5: going to. I think what these things do is you
Speaker 5: try and start to build a relationship after one has
Speaker 5: been carved up. I think obviously with Morris and there
Speaker 5: was no relationship at the end, so you're starting from scratch.
Speaker 5: You've got to rebuild.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean this is I think there's day three
Speaker 3: of the extended six day tour, so more embarrassment to come.
Speaker 3: Now let's move on, because former Labor Minister Ed Hugh
Speaker 3: Sick has told the government not to be heavy handed
Speaker 3: when responding to Envoy Gillian Siegel's recommendations to combat rising
Speaker 3: anti Semitism.
Speaker 2: The backbench MP.
Speaker 3: Has raised concerns about the reports, assertions that young people
Speaker 3: were more at risk of becoming anti Semites and that
Speaker 3: its singled out the ABC for spreading this information.
Speaker 2: Have a listened to.
Speaker 7: This, so we're going through it right, I'd get careful
Speaker 7: about it this early stage. Us taking positions straight away
Speaker 7: on this, Let's take the time to think it through.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of thoughts be put into it.
Speaker 2: Michael, he's saying, I need time to think it through.
Speaker 3: Has he seen what's been happening in Australia for almost
Speaker 3: two years?
Speaker 6: Well, obviously not, I mean quite Frankly, I haven't seen
Speaker 6: any mosques burning down. I haven't seen there are reports,
Speaker 6: but I haven't seen many reports of Muslims being abused,
Speaker 6: having to hide there, hide their clothing. I haven't seen,
Speaker 6: you know, all of the demonstrations we've seen against the
Speaker 6: Jewish community in Israel, I haven't seen those against Iran.
Speaker 6: I haven't seen a single demonstration against Iran. I haven't
Speaker 6: seen a single demonstration against Tamas. I haven't heard Humas
Speaker 6: condemned at many of these Palestinian allegedly Palestinian rallies, et cetera,
Speaker 6: et cetera, et cetera. I mean, Ed's got to get
Speaker 6: his head out of the sand, and you know, stop
Speaker 6: stop this whole gas lighting. Ever, everyone everyone knows Australia
Speaker 6: is in you know, in the sinbin worldwide because of
Speaker 6: the massive outbreak of antisemitism and Jewish hatred that has
Speaker 6: been on the streets of Melbourne and Sydney and other places,
Speaker 6: at university campuses, at synagogues around this country. Is this
Speaker 6: completely blind? You know? But this, this is what you
Speaker 6: get from from people who just ignore reality. And Jillian
Speaker 6: Siegel produced an outstanding report. Yes, after a lot of thought,
Speaker 6: and let's just hope the albanis the government accepts all
Speaker 6: of her recommendations.
Speaker 2: No, look, I absolutely agree.
Speaker 3: And you know, meanwhile, the Education Minister Jason Clare said
Speaker 3: today that the government will receive a report from its
Speaker 3: Special Envoy to combat Islamophobia next month.
Speaker 2: Graham, this is the problem with labor.
Speaker 3: At every turn, they've conflated anti Semitism with Islamophobia, as
Speaker 3: if they're both equal in this country right now.
Speaker 5: Well, I'm not sure if they're equal, but I know that,
Speaker 5: you know, the and islam stuff is growing. You know,
Speaker 5: there's always been people who don't like Jews' that's you know,
Speaker 5: that's as old as time. You can't get around that.
Speaker 5: And those people can't be you know, talking to a
Speaker 5: better point of view, a more a much kinder point
Speaker 5: of view. They just can't be talked into that they're
Speaker 5: going to remain and he said, mites, and you've just
Speaker 5: got to accept the fact that you're going to have
Speaker 5: to deal with them.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, and I mean that's why I guess that
Speaker 3: there's this report sitting on the Prime Minister's desk waiting
Speaker 3: for review and waiting for some recommendations to be implemented
Speaker 3: as soon as possible. Let's move on now, Melbourne rate
Speaker 3: payers are being built one hundred and thirty thousand dollars
Speaker 3: so that Melbourne Lord Man Nick Reese and three Melbourne
Speaker 3: counselors can go to China, Japan and Hong Kong on
Speaker 3: a junket flying business class. Nick Reese says the trip
Speaker 3: is a reflection of our incredible multicultural city. The city
Speaker 3: of Melbourne is aggressively hunting international headquarters and we are
Speaker 3: putting our best foot forward.
Speaker 2: With this strong delegation.
Speaker 3: Michael Sureley, you'd think someone in the Council would go, gee,
Speaker 3: the optics of this one are not great.
Speaker 5: Not great, and bloody all.
Speaker 6: I think every time a councilor a councilor goes overseas,
Speaker 6: it's a line for the newspapers and this is no
Speaker 6: different to that. Look, I think Nick Greece is a
Speaker 6: serious lord mayor. He's got three councilors going with him.
Speaker 6: We've got Chinese backgrounds of one description or another. I
Speaker 6: know two of those councilors pretty well. He's going to
Speaker 6: three cities in China and one city in Japan. I
Speaker 6: hope something comes good out of it. I wish him well.
Speaker 6: I don't think Nick greecee is the type of blake
Speaker 6: who needs a free holiday. So he's got lots of
Speaker 6: challenges here and anything you can do to increase the
Speaker 6: profile of Melbourne and Victoria good on him. So yet, look,
Speaker 6: the cost is a lot. They should go economy of
Speaker 6: course and stay in three star hotels like normal people.
Speaker 6: But I don't mind him going and on this type
Speaker 6: of issue, I trust Nick Greece's judgment quite frankly.
Speaker 2: Great, we're almost out of time, But what do you think.
Speaker 5: I think I'd substantially agree with what Michael said. I
Speaker 5: do trust Reese's judgment. I think he's a sound sort
Speaker 5: of person, not given the shooting from the hip. You know,
Speaker 5: he considers these positions before he announces them, so I
Speaker 5: think you've just got to trust him.
Speaker 3: All right, Look, fair enough, Graham, Richards and Michael Kraig,
Speaker 3: are good to see you both. Thanks very much for
Speaker 3: coming on the show this evening.
Speaker 2: Appreciate it.
Speaker 3: We're joining me now to unpack the Prime Minister's trip
Speaker 3: to China is shadow Foreign Affairs Minister Michaylia Cash. Senator,
Speaker 3: it's great to see you. Thank you so much for
Speaker 3: joining me. I asked earlier what has actually changed in
Speaker 3: our relationship with China during Anthony Albanese's trip, because it
Speaker 3: seems that this is the same old China making the
Speaker 3: rules and the Prime Minister bends over backwards to appease.
Speaker 3: China's Premier League has urged the PM to ensure Chinese
Speaker 3: companies are treated in a fair, open and non discriminatory way,
Speaker 3: while China's state media says the port of Darwin is
Speaker 3: still an issue that needs to be discussed. Senator, the
Speaker 3: PM didn't raise Darwin during his meetings.
Speaker 2: But if China has already.
Speaker 3: Handed us this list of demands, well what happens if
Speaker 3: we don't comply?
Speaker 2: Is it deja vu deep freeze all over again.
Speaker 8: Well, let's be clear, Danika that the coalition government wants
Speaker 8: Australia and China to have a good relationship. They are
Speaker 8: an important trading partner. The relationship needs to be a
Speaker 8: respectful one and that respect needs to go both ways.
Speaker 8: Mister Albanesi needs to be very clear. A decision has
Speaker 8: been made to return the port of Darwin to Australian control.
Speaker 8: Mister ALBERNIZI needs to be clear in relation to the
Speaker 8: decision and in a respect for relationship, that decision needs
Speaker 8: to be respected. I mean the Australian government, like any government,
Speaker 8: makes decisions in relation to foreign investment on a risk based,
Speaker 8: case by case basis to ensure that the investment is
Speaker 8: not contrary to our national interest. I mean the Coalition
Speaker 8: has been very clear the return of the Port of
Speaker 8: Darwin to Australian control is in Australia's best interest. Now,
Speaker 8: mister Alberinezi says his government is committed to the return.
Speaker 2: But the issue has arisen.
Speaker 8: Mister Albersi has not taken any action Danika to facilitate
Speaker 8: the return and his inaction is now creating instability. So
Speaker 8: mister Albersi needs to reaffirm the decision in relation to
Speaker 8: the port of Dara and returning to Australian control. But
Speaker 8: he also needs to be very very clear what actions
Speaker 8: is his government taking to facilitate return.
Speaker 2: What is the process, what is the framework? What is
Speaker 2: the timeline?
Speaker 8: Mister Alberzi has created himself by his inaction uncertainty. He
Speaker 8: needs to rectify urgently this situation.
Speaker 3: Oh look absolutely, I just think he's just so petrified
Speaker 3: of offending right now. The PM has downplayed a report
Speaker 3: in The China Daily which claimed he told President she
Speaker 3: he did not want to support Taiwan's independence. Have a
Speaker 3: listen to what he said.
Speaker 4: You're trying to quote Chinese readout that I haven't seen
Speaker 4: what we what we do. What we do has continue
Speaker 4: to support a one China policy. We support the status
Speaker 4: quo by definition, we don't support any unilateral action on Taiwan.
Speaker 4: That's been in our position for a long period of time.
Speaker 3: Senator, I mean, sure, okay, he's standing by that position.
Speaker 3: But the issue is.
Speaker 2: Is Anthony Alberanese's failure to stand up towards China.
Speaker 3: You know, when it comes to military intimidation, the punity
Speaker 3: of tariffs, he's not standing up for our values.
Speaker 8: Well, I think it is very concerned in Daneka that
Speaker 8: mister Albanese he did have a meeting, face to face
Speaker 8: meeting with presidents Jujuiping and got no assurances in relation
Speaker 8: to concerns he raised on regional strategic issues.
Speaker 2: I think what is even worse though.
Speaker 8: Is that mister Albanese says he raised these issues, but
Speaker 8: from all the reporting, mister Alberanese's concerns have been dismissed.
Speaker 8: Mister Alberanesi needs to ensure that in a respectful relationship,
Speaker 8: because as I said, the Coalition wants a relationship with China.
Speaker 8: They are our largest trading partner. We want the relationship
Speaker 8: to work. But in a respectful relationship, you listen and
Speaker 8: then you provide the assurance. The way in which the
Speaker 8: circumnavigation occurred of Australia was not conducted in a respectful manner.
Speaker 8: The Coalition called it out at the time and we
Speaker 8: will call it out again. But let us also be
Speaker 8: very very clear, mister Albanesi, when it comes to concerns
Speaker 8: about stability within the region, should have been clear that
Speaker 8: the United that Australia supports the United States presence in
Speaker 8: the Indo Pacific and the stability that the United States
Speaker 8: brings to the region absolutely.
Speaker 3: I mean it's also very clear that China is trying
Speaker 3: to drive a wedge right now between Australia and the
Speaker 3: United States. At a time where the US is pressuring
Speaker 3: us to lift our defense spending to give us to
Speaker 3: get a position on Taiwan, it's very clear what China
Speaker 3: is doing. Senator, I want to ask you on another matter.
Speaker 3: Big Australia keeps getting bigger. A record thirty three thousand
Speaker 3: net permanent and long term arrivals came into the country
Speaker 3: in May, Senator, Labor keeps breaking records time and time
Speaker 3: again when it comes to migration. At the same time,
Speaker 3: we saw that leak Treasury advice the other day saying
Speaker 3: that Labor won't meet its housing targets.
Speaker 2: Where are we going to put all these people? We
Speaker 2: can't even get ossies into houses.
Speaker 8: Well today, that's now the obvious question, and the problem
Speaker 8: is this, there is no answer to that question.
Speaker 2: The government doesn't have a clue when.
Speaker 8: It comes to housing for Australians and more generally housing
Speaker 8: for people who come here. But what's worse now, Daniker,
Speaker 8: is based on the figures that we have just seen,
Speaker 8: I don't think the government actually cares. I mean, Janika,
Speaker 8: you and I understand why people want to come to Australia,
Speaker 8: it is a great country. However, governments need to ensure
Speaker 8: that migration.
Speaker 2: Is managed sustainably.
Speaker 8: In other words, if you're bringing people into the country,
Speaker 8: you need to ensure that there is the appropriate infrastructure,
Speaker 8: and you need to ensure that not only are their
Speaker 8: houses for Australians, there are houses for the people you
Speaker 8: are bringing in. Labor is a failure when it comes
Speaker 8: to the management of Australia's migration program, but more than that,
Speaker 8: in failing to ensure the necessary infrastructure and the necessary
Speaker 8: housing infrastructure, labor are failing Australians. So I'm sorry there
Speaker 8: is no answer to your question because I don't think
Speaker 8: labor actually care and that's reflected in the latest numbers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, completely agree, and big Australia's care. He's getting bigger
Speaker 3: and bigger. Sanata mckayleay Cash, good to see you. Thank
Speaker 3: you very much for joining me on the show this evening.
Speaker 3: Appreciate it. Look coming up after the break, the real
Speaker 3: cost of net zero will tell you just how much
Speaker 3: the renewables only fantasy is costing this country.
Speaker 2: Brace yourselves.
Speaker 3: Plus Donald Trump asks Ukraine whether it could strike Moscow.
Speaker 3: Strategic Analysis Australia Director Michael Schubridge will have the latest
Speaker 3: that's next.
Speaker 2: Welcome back well.
Speaker 3: Donald Trump reportedly asked Vladimir Zelenski whether Ukraine could strike
Speaker 3: Moscow during a call on July fourth, as the president
Speaker 3: grows increasingly frustrated with Russia.
Speaker 2: But Trump appeared to brush away the idea today.
Speaker 9: Should Zelenski target Moscow or deeper into Russia?
Speaker 1: He shouldn't target Moscow? Are you on your plane's side?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 1: I know I'm on nobody's side.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna know what I want to you know the
Speaker 2: side I'm on humanity side.
Speaker 4: I want to stop the killing of thousands of people
Speaker 4: a week. I want to stop the killing.
Speaker 3: To discuss this and more is Strategic Analysis Australia Director
Speaker 3: Michael Schubridge.
Speaker 2: Michael, thanks for joining me.
Speaker 3: What do you make of this report that Donald Trump
Speaker 3: asked Ukraine if it could strike Moscow?
Speaker 2: What is he preparing for?
Speaker 9: Well, Deniker, I think it was all about Trump's frustration
Speaker 9: with Putin boiling over, and some good has come from
Speaker 9: that because he's opened up the supply of critical defensive
Speaker 9: weapons like Patriot counter missile interceptors for Ukraine. But his
Speaker 9: core position is he doesn't want the war continuing, and
Speaker 9: he thinks Ukraine striking Moscow is only going to prolong
Speaker 9: the war. I'm not sure that's right, but that seems
Speaker 9: to be what Trump is thinking.
Speaker 3: Well, what does it say more broadly about Trump's growing
Speaker 3: frustration with China. We know that the US has already
Speaker 3: resumed arms with Ukraine.
Speaker 2: How do you see this playing out?
Speaker 3: Because I know that a lot of Russian state media
Speaker 3: is laughing this off, that they're not taking Dot Trump's
Speaker 3: threats seriously.
Speaker 9: Well, they're probably right too, because he's made threats before,
Speaker 9: like he's going to put a whole lot of new
Speaker 9: sanctions on Russia and on countries buying Russian oil, but
Speaker 9: he hasn't ever followed through. He's said he's given Putin
Speaker 9: fifty days to agree to a ceasefire or he'll put
Speaker 9: one hundred percent sanctions on Russia. But I think he's
Speaker 9: still got a credibility problem there, and the reaction in
Speaker 9: Ukraine is fifty days. Well, if he was serious, he'd
Speaker 9: be doing it now. So the problem is he's flip
Speaker 9: flopped so much around Ukraine and given Putin so many
Speaker 9: free passes. Russia isn't taking him seriously.
Speaker 3: No, they're clearly not so very curious to see how
Speaker 3: this one plays out. Let's turn to Israel now Prime
Speaker 3: Minister Benjamin Nenya, who's governing coalition is fracturing after an
Speaker 3: ultra Orthodox party united to Judaism quit. What could this
Speaker 3: mean for the war in ga and a potential ceasefire.
Speaker 9: Well, this, by itself, if nothing else happens, leaves Netnahu
Speaker 9: with a one seat majority in the parliament in Israel.
Speaker 9: So if he loses another coalition partner and there are
Speaker 9: more ultra Orthodox parties in his governing coalition, then he
Speaker 9: would be in minority government. That could happen. And this
Speaker 9: is all about the ultra Orthodox not wanting to have
Speaker 9: to do military service, which they haven't had to for decades.
Speaker 9: But the rest of the Israeli society is saying, why
Speaker 9: are we sending our sons and daughters into the war
Speaker 9: and the ultra Orthodox are immune?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I just wonder how this would go
Speaker 3: and what it would mean for the war. More broadly,
Speaker 3: I want to ask you about and well, the problem, yes, sorry.
Speaker 9: The problem for the war more broadly is the far
Speaker 9: right part of his governing coalition don't want him to
Speaker 9: agree terms with Hamas. So he can't end the war
Speaker 9: and keep his coalition together now that he's lost these numbers.
Speaker 9: So it makes any kind of deal to end the
Speaker 9: war harder.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounds like it's very, very difficult. Let's talk
Speaker 3: about Anthony Abenese's trip to China. Chinese President, she has
Speaker 3: not given the PM any guarantee that we will be
Speaker 3: given more noses before any future military exercise in the region. Michael, Look,
Speaker 3: they've been, you know, schmoozing Anthony Aberenese for days now.
Speaker 3: He said that he raised the military issue with them,
Speaker 3: but clearly to no avail.
Speaker 9: Well, Denika, even in mister Albanese's brave talk about how
Speaker 9: he raised the issue when he was talking to Australian
Speaker 9: journalists after the meeting, the way he raised it sounds
Speaker 9: like he more or less congratulated Shi Jingping for sending
Speaker 9: the warships down to Australia and doing live firing. He
Speaker 9: mentioned again, now it was all extremely lawful, and the
Speaker 9: only thing that bothered him was next time, he'd like
Speaker 9: more notice live firing. The Chinese gave no notice to
Speaker 9: the Australian government about the live firing. Civilian airliners had
Speaker 9: to divert for their passenger's safety. And it was an aggressive,
Speaker 9: intimidating exercise by China. But you wouldn't know that from
Speaker 9: the way the Prime Minister describes it. So it's no surprise.
Speaker 9: Shi Jinping must have thought he was being congratulated and
Speaker 9: maybe he should send more ships soon.
Speaker 3: Oh so it was a welcome call basically, Michael, you know,
Speaker 3: I mean it was literally being an apologist for China.
Speaker 3: Albo was making excuses for China. That press conference yesterday
Speaker 3: was very, very telling that he gave. I'm going to
Speaker 3: ask you how much of this is about China driving
Speaker 3: a wedge between Australia and the US, because they're clearly
Speaker 3: reveling in all this pomp and ceremony, all the symbolism.
Speaker 9: What is it all about, Well, it is about the
Speaker 9: bigger picture. Is not about Australia China relations at all.
Speaker 9: It's about the leader of a Western democracy embracing the
Speaker 9: Chinese government and going all in on.
Speaker 1: The China dream.
Speaker 9: Shijing Ping and his Communist Party propagandoram cannot believe their
Speaker 9: luck with mister Albanesi and this visit is like a
Speaker 9: gift to them to play right into this China is
Speaker 9: the new force in town, and a country like Australia
Speaker 9: is delighted with the direction of things under China. And
Speaker 9: at the same time we're distancing from America. That's the
Speaker 9: way China is presenting this to the world. So mister
Speaker 9: Albinizi is a post a child for signing up to
Speaker 9: the to Shijingping's China dream. That's the view from Beijing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm looking embarrassing on the world stage. At the
Speaker 3: same time, Michael Schubridge, thank you very much as always
Speaker 3: for joining us. Really appreciate it well when you had already,
Speaker 3: But now we have the figure labour's renewables.
Speaker 2: Only fantasy is making us poorer.
Speaker 3: That's according to the latest data from the Energy Institute.
Speaker 2: It's cost this.
Speaker 3: Country twenty nine billion dollars in the last decade. And
Speaker 3: in that same time period China has increased their emissions
Speaker 3: by eighty seven times the amount we reduced ours by
Speaker 3: Johnny Now is The Australian's Environment editor Graham.
Speaker 2: Lloyd Graham.
Speaker 3: I mean we're literally going broken backwards under this fantasy
Speaker 3: pipe dream.
Speaker 10: Yes, well, good evening to Technika. And the sobering thing
Speaker 10: is large as that number is that is only a
Speaker 10: tiny fraction of what is going to be required to
Speaker 10: deliver on what is being promised. If there's a criticism
Speaker 10: that can be made of the whole approach, regardless of
Speaker 10: what one's view may be of tackling climate change or
Speaker 10: anything else, it's the lack of a real plan at
Speaker 10: the outset, and at the lack of any cost benefit
Speaker 10: analysis that went with it. So what we're seeing now
Speaker 10: the billions of dollars are racking up, and the returns
Speaker 10: they're still difficult to find.
Speaker 3: And as I said there, China's increased their emissions by
Speaker 3: eighty seven times the amount we reduced ours by. What
Speaker 3: is the point of global climate targets?
Speaker 10: Well, this is the other thing I mean. I've traveled
Speaker 10: to a lot of the so called cop meetings where
Speaker 10: the issues are thrashed out, and at the very core
Speaker 10: of those meetings is this ethic that there must be
Speaker 10: different treatment for developing and developed countries. China is still
Speaker 10: regarded as a developing countries, and therefore it has no
Speaker 10: obligation to cut its carbon dioxide emissions. It's saying they
Speaker 10: will peak sometime in the future, but the size of
Speaker 10: their economy and emissions profile is so great that anything
Speaker 10: that's done in Australia is immediately swallowed up. It's always
Speaker 10: been the case, and it's really underpinned the argument that
Speaker 10: whatever actions Australia takes is going to be next to
Speaker 10: meaningless in the global scale of emissions. It's really a
Speaker 10: sort of demonstration of good faith to the rest of
Speaker 10: the global community. But in terms of solving the problem,
Speaker 10: we're a bystander.
Speaker 2: Yeah, clearly.
Speaker 3: And meanwhile we're still peddling this net zero fantasy and
Speaker 3: keeping on with the Paris climate targets is just ridiculous. Now, look,
Speaker 3: I want to ask you about mining and metals company
Speaker 3: Rio Tinto. It's backed a Gillard style price on carbon,
Speaker 3: arguing it's the most effective way to coax the private
Speaker 3: sector into driving down emissions.
Speaker 2: G Graham, you know that.
Speaker 3: The Gillard price on carbon was just so popular last time.
Speaker 3: Not But what's Rio's Tinto's goal here, do you think?
Speaker 10: Well, Rio Tinto is playing the corporate game. It's setting
Speaker 10: targets and saying, look, it wants to reduce emissions and
Speaker 10: be good corporate citizen. But the best way to do that,
Speaker 10: they say, is for the government to collect money off
Speaker 10: everybody and redistribute to companies including Rio, so they can
Speaker 10: work with technology and other things to reduce their emissions.
Speaker 10: So they're really talking out of a position of great
Speaker 10: self interest, both in terms of the presentation they make
Speaker 10: to the world but also their financial pocket.
Speaker 2: Now I've got to ask you about this green project.
Speaker 3: Another one's been axed after offshore wind developer Blue Flow
Speaker 3: abandoned its plans for one of Victoria's most advanced offshore
Speaker 3: wind projects.
Speaker 2: It's failed to secure a buyer.
Speaker 3: Graham, I don't know about you, but I have lost
Speaker 3: count at the amount of projects that have been delayed
Speaker 3: or canceled in recent months.
Speaker 10: Yeah, well, certainly, we're trying to keep count, but it's
Speaker 10: across the board. Now it's snowy two point zero. It's
Speaker 10: onshore wind projects and particularly offshore projects that are finding
Speaker 10: it difficult to get off the ground. And probably the
Speaker 10: most telling fact in the story of this one in
Speaker 10: Victoria is they put up for sale and they got
Speaker 10: no bids. That gives a pretty good indication as to
Speaker 10: how difficult the offshore wind industry is going to be
Speaker 10: and the experience that they're having elsewhere. This is an
Speaker 10: international company and thought it would come in and expand
Speaker 10: into Australia. It's now pulling out of Australia and it's
Speaker 10: reducing its operations overseas. And that's pretty much the story
Speaker 10: of offshore wind. So going back to the original point,
Speaker 10: what's the plan, how much is it going to cost
Speaker 10: and what are we going to get?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and meanwhile, still no plans to keep the lights
Speaker 3: on in this country as we keep trying to phase
Speaker 3: out cole so quickly, Graham Lloyd, good to catch up.
Speaker 3: Thanks very much for joining me on the show this evening.
Speaker 3: We're coming up after a break. After the break is
Speaker 3: shopping data leak that led to twenty four thousand Afghans
Speaker 3: being eligible for UK resettlement and Labor tried to keep
Speaker 3: it under wraps.
Speaker 2: We'll go live to London. Plus climate anxiety.
Speaker 3: Would you believe it's apparently a thing and it's stopping
Speaker 3: young adults from having children?
Speaker 2: Ridiculous. Psychologist Claire Row joins me after the break.
Speaker 3: Welcome back to the latest in climate xelatry and insanity.
Speaker 3: Now there's some more climate fear bongering out and about
Speaker 3: this week an article claims that climate anxiety is leading
Speaker 3: some young adults to opt out of having kids. The
Speaker 3: WEF says, while the term climate anxiety might sound clinical,
Speaker 3: it doesn't.
Speaker 2: Experts assure it's not a mental.
Speaker 3: Illness, but rather a natural response to the global threat
Speaker 3: of climate change. I mean, seriously, don't have kids if
Speaker 3: this is what you believe, because the kids are going
Speaker 3: to grow up brainwashed and absolutely petrified at everything. Psychologist
Speaker 3: and adjunct fellow at the Institute of Public Affairs.
Speaker 2: Claire Row joins me.
Speaker 3: Now, Claire, I mean seriously, is this actually a thing,
Speaker 3: climate anxiety?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, Sanikaw.
Speaker 11: Look, as a psychologist, particularly seeing young people in my clinic,
Speaker 11: this isn't just a passing thing. It's absolutely a real,
Speaker 11: growing mental health phenomenon is rapidly becoming I think one
Speaker 11: of the biggest hidden pressures on our children. But I
Speaker 11: think part of the problem is the way that we're
Speaker 11: responding to this fear. I mean, it's all wrong, and
Speaker 11: instead of applying the best known treatments for anxiety, you know,
Speaker 11: things like teaching young people to challenge their thoughts and
Speaker 11: self regulate to get some perspective, we're actually like kind
Speaker 11: of leaning into it and applauding them and patting them
Speaker 11: on the back. And I think that you know, around
Speaker 11: classrooms and certainly popular culture, we're validating their worst fears
Speaker 11: and immersing children in these kind of worst case scenarios. So,
Speaker 11: you know, I absolutely see children in my clinic who
Speaker 11: don't think that they're going to live to adulthood. And
Speaker 11: the young adults now that are saying they're not going
Speaker 11: to have children. I mean, these are the ones that
Speaker 11: have come through our education system and have been fed
Speaker 11: this stuffs and say, we're five years old. So if
Speaker 11: they really think that the world is doomed, why would
Speaker 11: you have kids? And so my latest research through the
Speaker 11: IPA is showing that, yeah, this is not just a
Speaker 11: passing phase. It does start with our education system, but
Speaker 11: I also think it starts with also mental health professionals,
Speaker 11: my fellow psychologists calling this out in how we're responding
Speaker 11: to young people that are so anxious about this.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I agree, don't have children if your
Speaker 3: biggest concern is climate anxiety, not being responsible for an
Speaker 3: adult here for a human for another life, don't have
Speaker 3: kids that the world will be better off. Seriously, Now, look,
Speaker 3: young people are sending life insurers broke as claims for
Speaker 3: being unable to return to the workforce skyrocket due to stress,
Speaker 3: burnout and bullying in the workplace. Co chair of the
Speaker 3: Council of Australian Life Insurers, Kent Griffin said he was
Speaker 3: especially concerned about the rising young people making claims for
Speaker 3: mental health reasons. Claire, you know what is going on
Speaker 3: with young people today?
Speaker 11: Yeah, this is unbelievable when I saw this, almost half
Speaker 11: of insurance payouts for complete incapacitation of ever working in
Speaker 11: the future and now due to mental health. And it's
Speaker 11: not the elderly, it's people in their thirties and forties,
Speaker 11: like their prime of their life, their working age, and
Speaker 11: making permanent disability claims at an exponential rate. And I
Speaker 11: don't say this lightly. I'm a psychologist. I know the
Speaker 11: realities of mental illness. But what we're seeing is a
Speaker 11: system that is I think, completely out of touch with
Speaker 11: clinical reality. Because of course, the treatment for you moderate
Speaker 11: to severe depression and anxiety is not a lumpsump payout,
Speaker 11: it's not permanent retirement. There are treatments for these things
Speaker 11: and they involved reintegration back into our community and work,
Speaker 11: and these things are very treatable, and so this is
Speaker 11: not about denying I think legitimate mental illness, but it
Speaker 11: is recognizing that the system now is going to collapse.
Speaker 11: We've seen this with the NDIS, which is in the
Speaker 11: imminent stage of collapsing. And so too will insurance companies
Speaker 11: if they're going to pay out on things for a
Speaker 11: lifelong disability that are treatable conditions. And so we need
Speaker 11: to be very careful because I think the mental health
Speaker 11: narrative in this country is very high on empathy but
Speaker 11: very low on science.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean, you know, is this going the
Speaker 3: way of the NDIS now where you know you're stressed
Speaker 3: out in the workplace, you've got a bit on your plate.
Speaker 3: Suddenly you've got to make a claim, you know. I
Speaker 3: just when you start opening this door, it doesn't end.
Speaker 3: It's unreal. Clairo, thank you very much for joining me
Speaker 3: on the show this evening. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Well. Still to come.
Speaker 3: A twelve year old British girl is sent home from
Speaker 3: school for wearing a union jack dress to a diversity
Speaker 3: day event. Would you believe that's next? Welcome back, Let's
Speaker 3: go live now to London. Joining me is Spiked Online
Speaker 3: editor Tom Slater.
Speaker 2: Tom, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining me.
Speaker 3: Let's start with a data lea which shows Keir Starmer's
Speaker 3: government secretly offered asylum to nearly twenty four thousand Afghans
Speaker 3: and it's costing British taxpayers seven billion pounds. That's a
Speaker 3: little over fourteen billion Ossie dollars. War on Earth is
Speaker 3: going on here, tom, So.
Speaker 1: I have to know where to start with this.
Speaker 12: I mean, first and foremost, you've got twenty five thousand,
Speaker 12: predominantly Afghan soldiers and their families who were the subjects
Speaker 12: of this data breach. A Royal marine and in the
Speaker 12: Defense Department just accidentally said this spreadsheet around with all
Speaker 12: of their information on it, effectively handing the Taliban a
Speaker 12: hit list.
Speaker 1: But you then the problem gets deeper.
Speaker 12: You have the government trying to cover it up by
Speaker 12: this superinjunction unprecedented in political history. And then also you
Speaker 12: have this secretive move to offer all of these people asylum,
Speaker 12: which we may well ohe these people are death of gratitude,
Speaker 12: but surely that's something that the public needs to be
Speaker 12: consulted on. So surely that's something that we need to
Speaker 12: know about. So from the screw up, through to the secrecy,
Speaker 12: through to the kind of anti democracy of it. It's
Speaker 12: a damning indictment of the British state. I think, from
Speaker 12: top to.
Speaker 2: Bottom it's unbelievable.
Speaker 3: I mean the cover up is absolutely breathtaking by labor,
Speaker 3: but come to expect nothing less from Keir Starmer's government.
Speaker 2: Now this has made newspaper headlines across the world.
Speaker 3: A year seven student has been thrown out of her
Speaker 3: own school's diversity.
Speaker 2: Day for turning up in a union jack dress.
Speaker 3: Twelve year old Courtney was stopped by teachers on arrival
Speaker 3: and given the option to put on a secondhand uniform instead.
Speaker 2: Here she was talking about what happened.
Speaker 13: The first teacher I saw, she straight away just took
Speaker 13: me to go get changed. She didn't want to hear
Speaker 13: about my dress or see it. Another teacher try to
Speaker 13: stop me and said you can't mean that. It's your
Speaker 13: nationality and not your culture. They asked me to come
Speaker 13: with them and to change into second hand school uniform.
Speaker 13: They said that I didn't sign a form. When the
Speaker 13: haad a bear did bring my mom, she said she
Speaker 13: did sign it, yet they still didn't want me to
Speaker 13: wear it.
Speaker 2: So Tom explain this to us.
Speaker 3: British girl is sent home from school for being too British,
Speaker 3: but kids were allowed to wear burkers.
Speaker 2: Is that diversity for you?
Speaker 1: Absolutely?
Speaker 12: I don't think I can explain it other than to
Speaker 12: say that this is the mess that we've landed ourselves
Speaker 12: in in which you've got school children constantly being encouraged
Speaker 12: to celebrate cultural difference, and yet when someone shows up
Speaker 12: wanting to represent their country, actually the flag that surely
Speaker 12: should unite the children of that class of all backgrounds,
Speaker 12: then that's treated as if she walked in we're in
Speaker 12: an SS uniform or something.
Speaker 1: I mean, this response that you get from.
Speaker 12: The education system, from the great and good these days,
Speaker 12: as if to be even mildly patriotic, as something kind
Speaker 12: of weird and strange. That's the kind of national sickness
Speaker 12: that I think we need to free ourselves from.
Speaker 3: What does it say more broadly as well, about the
Speaker 3: education system how it's been completely hijacked by these left
Speaker 3: wing activists.
Speaker 12: No, exactly, it was the fact that these teachers just
Speaker 12: did this without even thinking. I mean, it's the sort
Speaker 12: of water that the people in the education system swimming now,
Speaker 12: which is just allergic to paytism, which is nervous around
Speaker 12: anything to do with national identity. They have apologized now,
Speaker 12: but the fact that that was their response in the
Speaker 12: first place speaks volumes.
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, it does. I feel like there. I mean,
Speaker 3: and this isn't just happening in the UK. It's happening
Speaker 3: here in Australia. There's this real identity crisis where you'd
Speaker 3: be proud for your country, you be proud of who
Speaker 3: you are, but you know you're called a racist or
Speaker 3: a bigot just for loving your values. I just think
Speaker 3: it's absolutely, very very strange. Now, this is interesting. More
Speaker 3: than one million migrants are claiming benefits in the UK
Speaker 3: every month. Tom, I can't help, but just wonder you
Speaker 3: may as well be a migrant now in Britain because
Speaker 3: you're getting better benefits than the Brits themselves.
Speaker 12: I know this number is really striking. So it's now
Speaker 12: around one point three million foreign nationals who are claiming
Speaker 12: Universal Credit, our main benefit here in the United Kingdom.
Speaker 12: And this is something which I think people are really
Speaker 12: bristling against because of the there is a kind of
Speaker 12: social contract in place, the idea that if you are
Speaker 12: going to access the benefits system, you should have been
Speaker 12: here for quite a long time, you should be a
Speaker 12: British citizen, and I don't think that's an outrageous.
Speaker 1: Position to hold.
Speaker 12: And if you're going to have a benefit system as
Speaker 12: dysfunctional as asked is, as I'm sure you've talked about
Speaker 12: on this channel many times, you have to have that
Speaker 12: level of public buying. You have to have people feeling
Speaker 12: that the system is fair, that people can't show up
Speaker 12: five minutes ago and access it.
Speaker 1: These aren't outrageous positions.
Speaker 12: But the government has got into such a mess with immigration,
Speaker 12: It's got into such a mess with a benefit system
Speaker 12: that it's actually just breaking down faith in what should
Speaker 12: be a kind of thing that people pay into, they're
Speaker 12: happy to pay into knowing that they could get something
Speaker 12: out of it if they need it. All of that
Speaker 12: trust is sort of dissolving underneath all of this dysfunction.
Speaker 1: I think, well, is.
Speaker 3: That why tom reform is doing quite well now in
Speaker 3: the UK?
Speaker 2: Because this really.
Speaker 3: Is Nigel Farage's bread and bad as so onto the
Speaker 3: migrant matter all the time, and you guys have got
Speaker 3: boats coming in left, right and center. But stories like
Speaker 3: this am I riding saying that the Brits going well,
Speaker 3: how we need a reform? This is why we need
Speaker 3: a reform right now.
Speaker 12: No, absolutely, And I think the other reason that it's
Speaker 12: driving people towards reform is the fact that the Tories
Speaker 12: have their fingerprints all over these problems. We could talk
Speaker 12: about the Afghan scandal, we could talk about the benefits system,
Speaker 12: we could talk about the unprecedented wave of immigration that
Speaker 12: began under Boris Johnson, whilst Labor kind of had to
Speaker 12: carry the can for it now because the full effects
Speaker 12: of it are being felt during their government. Obviously the
Speaker 12: Tory government were responsible for setting a lot of this
Speaker 12: in train. So it's no wonder that people are turning
Speaker 12: towards essentially a third party.
Speaker 1: For the first time one hundred years in this country.
Speaker 12: It's because of the utter dysfunction, the utter disconnect with
Speaker 12: what ordinary people care about one it's become a recruiting
Speaker 12: sergement for reform and exactly the way that you.
Speaker 3: Say no, exactly, That's why I always seeing reform doing
Speaker 3: so well across the board. There, Tom Slader, always good
Speaker 3: to catch up. Thanks very much for joining me on
Speaker 3: the show this evening, and thanks for your company. That's
Speaker 3: all we've got time for. Are we back tomorrow night,
Speaker 3: But stay with us. Here is James Morrow, filling in
Speaker 3: for Paul Murray and the man Cave