Speaker 1: It wasn't that there were no suspects. The problem for
Speaker 1: the police was this, there were too many suspects. There
Speaker 1: were far too many potential suspects. They obviously couldn't all
Speaker 1: be guilty, but there were too many men who could
Speaker 1: conceivably have done this crime. And he went to the
Speaker 1: people next door and said, if you've seen Shawna and
Speaker 1: they said no, no, And he said, oh no, And
Speaker 1: he rushed back to the house and went to Shawna's
Speaker 1: room and there was Shawna getting her ben. I'm Andrew Rule.
Speaker 1: This is Life and Crimes today. We are going to
Speaker 1: revisit a case that was I think the first podcast
Speaker 1: that we recorded. It wasn't the first one we put out,
Speaker 1: but it was the first one we recorded back in
Speaker 1: a dim, dark, distant past of either twenty seventeen or
Speaker 1: twenty and eighteen. It's a long time ago, about four
Speaker 1: hundred episodes ago. That was the double murder of Margaret
Speaker 1: Tap and her young daughter, Shauna Tap at their house
Speaker 1: in Kelvin Drive, fern Try Galley in August nineteen eighty.
Speaker 2: Four, which is exactly forty years ago.
Speaker 1: It was in fact, during the Los Angeles Olympics, which
Speaker 1: dates it pretty well. The neighbors can recall listening to
Speaker 1: the Olympics that night before they went to bed. They
Speaker 1: can recall that before one neighbor went to bed at midnight,
Speaker 1: they noticed that their own.
Speaker 2: Dog growled at their back door.
Speaker 1: Which was unusual for their dog. It was fairly quiet,
Speaker 1: and they wondered later whether someone was hanging around or
Speaker 1: some intruder was around. Another set of neighbors on the
Speaker 1: other side of the road heard Shawna Taps little Cocker Spaniel,
Speaker 1: a very meek, quiet little dog who never really barked
Speaker 1: or howled or anything much. Those neighbors know that just
Speaker 1: after midnight on this particular Tuesday night Wednesday morning, that
Speaker 1: Shauna's little dog had barked and howled in a way
Speaker 1: they'd never heard before. And so it was that next morning, Wednesday,
Speaker 1: the eighth of August nineteen eighty four, when the neighbors
Speaker 1: girl Karen Karen Bomford her name was, when she came
Speaker 1: out to see if Shawna next door wanted to walk
Speaker 1: to school, she noticed that there was no sign.
Speaker 2: Of life at the Taps house.
Speaker 1: At number thirteen. She noticed that Margaret Taps green Corolla
Speaker 1: sedan was still in the driveway. She noticed that the
Speaker 1: newspaper that was delivered each day was still in the driveway.
Speaker 1: She noticed that the blinds were still down. There was
Speaker 1: no sign of life. It looked as if the taps
Speaker 1: had not got up. Now this wasn't so shocking to
Speaker 1: the child because sometimes people sleep in, and she walked
Speaker 1: off to school by herself, just thinking, oh, well, Shanna
Speaker 1: and a mum have slept in. But later other people
Speaker 1: turned up at the tap house. Margaret taps sister's boyfriend.
Speaker 1: Would you believe So this is sort of Margaret taps
Speaker 1: putative brother in law. He turns up. His name is
Speaker 1: Tony Blackwell. Not sure why he turned up, but anyway,
Speaker 1: he did it. You know, people drop in for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: and he's dropped in. He as he told police later exhaustively,
Speaker 1: I imagine, he picked up the newspaper, took it up
Speaker 1: to the front step, put it on the step, knocked
Speaker 1: on the front door. There was no answer, no sign
Speaker 1: of life. He tapped on a window, no answer, no
Speaker 1: sign of life.
Speaker 2: So he left.
Speaker 1: This is what he told the police, and there's no
Speaker 1: reason not.
Speaker 2: To believe him.
Speaker 1: Okay, the day proceeds, The car doesn't move. Nobody picks
Speaker 1: up the newspaper. There's no sign of life at the
Speaker 1: house at thirteen Calvin Drive, fern Tree Gully. That evening
Speaker 1: a former neighbor of Margaret Taps turns up. Now his
Speaker 1: name is Jim Rowlands. Jim Rolins was a forty four
Speaker 1: year old carpenter at that stage, which means if he's
Speaker 1: still with us, Jim is eighty four. So if he's
Speaker 1: still he's an old man out there somewhere. Jim was
Speaker 1: regarded as a very nice man. He had lived next
Speaker 1: door to Margaret previously when Margaret had lived in a
Speaker 1: different suburb, and Jim's wife had contracted cancer and had
Speaker 1: died of cancer. And it was typical of Margaret Tap,
Speaker 1: who was a nurse by profession, that she was so generous.
Speaker 1: She was kind, and she was generous. She did have
Speaker 1: her faults, but she'd liked to help people, and she
Speaker 1: had helped nurse Jim Roland's wife when she was dying
Speaker 1: of cancer. And Jim Rowlands and Margaret had a sort
Speaker 1: of a platonic friendship. And the night before the Tuesday night,
Speaker 1: the night before Margaret had called Jim and said, look,
Speaker 1: I've got opera tickets. Do you want to go to
Speaker 1: the opera with me? Come around tomorrow night. Margaret had
Speaker 1: then arranged for a babysitter to come around and look
Speaker 1: after Shauna while at the opera. And so Jim turns
Speaker 1: up as invited on a Wednesday evening, just after dinner,
Speaker 1: six point thirty whatever it was, and he knocks on
Speaker 1: the door, no answer, So he goes around to the
Speaker 1: back door, which he knew. He knew the house quite well.
Speaker 1: The back door locke didn't work properly. It had been
Speaker 1: broken by one of the kids playing and it didn't
Speaker 1: really lock well. And Jim let himself in, which was fine,
Speaker 1: and he walked into the house called out, no sign
Speaker 1: of life. He goes into Margaret's bedroom and sees Margaret
Speaker 1: and Margaret's body in bed, and he went close enough
Speaker 1: to realize that she was dead.
Speaker 2: I think he saw the.
Speaker 1: Strangulation marks on her neck. And he bolted outside worried
Speaker 1: about Shauna. And he went to the bomft's next door
Speaker 1: the people next door and said, have you seen Shawna?
Speaker 1: Have you seen Shauna? Is she staying with you? And
Speaker 1: they said no, no, and he said, oh no, and
Speaker 1: he went rushed back to the house and went to
Speaker 1: Shawna's room and there was Shawna dead in her bed.
Speaker 1: She also had been strangled. And so it was Jim
Speaker 1: Rowland's former neighbor, old friend who contacted the police. Well,
Speaker 1: he and the neighbors contacted the police, and then the
Speaker 1: local police come and they call the homicide squad. First
Speaker 1: two homicide squad detectives on the scene were an old
Speaker 1: senior sergeant or relatively old, a middle aged senior sergeant,
Speaker 1: and a very young and bright detective.
Speaker 2: The older guy was called.
Speaker 1: Jack and the young woman was called Rod, and they
Speaker 1: lived out in that direction, and so they came there
Speaker 1: sort of basically diverted there on their way home from
Speaker 1: the city from Russell Street.
Speaker 2: They go to the scene.
Speaker 1: Jack goes into the bedroom and it goes into Shawna's bedroom.
Speaker 1: He sees Shorna dead on the bed and it really
Speaker 1: affects him because he had a little girl the same age,
Speaker 1: and tears sprang to his eyes and he was very
Speaker 1: sad about it. The sort of stuff that upsets detectives
Speaker 1: is seeing murdered children, of course, and that was the
Speaker 1: start of a long, patchy and protracted investigation that actually
Speaker 1: has got nowhere in forty years. The police had the
Speaker 1: same problem at the Tap scene, at the Tap case
Speaker 1: as they had a decade before at Easy Street in
Speaker 1: Collingwood when the two suits were murdered. Susan Bartlett and
Speaker 1: Susan Armstrong had been murdered in Collingwood at Easy Street.
Speaker 1: Easy Street was a big, notorious case, which we've discussed
Speaker 1: here before, very famous thing, but the Tap case is
Speaker 1: equally awful. Mother and daughter killed, terrible thing. They shared
Speaker 1: one thing in both cases. It wasn't that there were
Speaker 1: no suspects. The problem for the police was this, there
Speaker 1: were too many suspects. There were far too many potential suspects.
Speaker 1: They obviously couldn't all be guilty, but there were too
Speaker 1: many men who could conceivably have done this crime, who
Speaker 1: were known to Margaret or the family, or the neighbors
Speaker 1: or whatever it might be. And the police soon discovered that.
Speaker 1: When it turned out that it wasn't Jim Rowlands who
Speaker 1: discovered the bodies, of course he got a nice old
Speaker 1: grilling for the first twenty four hours until they decided
Speaker 1: that he was totally innocent, which he was, and then
Speaker 1: they will have grilled. You would think Margaret's sister's boyfriend,
Speaker 1: Tony Blackwell, you'd imagine that he had a few questions
Speaker 1: to answer, alibis and all the rest of it. Then
Speaker 1: they would look very hard, maybe or maybe not. They
Speaker 1: looked at a policeman or recently he retired policeman called
Speaker 1: Ian Cook. We mentioned his name now because he's died
Speaker 1: in recent years, so we can mention his name. I
Speaker 1: think he died in about twenty sixteen. Ian Cook was
Speaker 1: a policeman who had retired at around that time in
Speaker 1: the eighties. He was probably in his fifties. Then. He
Speaker 1: had not been a detective or in the crime squads,
Speaker 1: but he was a very good friend of a serving
Speaker 1: homicide detective called Jimmy Frye real name Albert Frye, but
Speaker 1: known as Jimmy and Jimmy Frye was a pretty average detective,
Speaker 1: but very well known and well liked by some people,
Speaker 1: not by me. And he apparently was a friend of
Speaker 1: this Ian Cook for reasons that are not obvious. And
Speaker 1: it turned out that Ian Cook came to the murder
Speaker 1: house in the.
Speaker 2: First day or so and he said to the police.
Speaker 1: They were looking after the murder house, and I had
Speaker 1: it sealed off with tape and everything. He said, Look,
Speaker 1: I'm an cook and I used to be in the job,
Speaker 1: and you know he's here's Marl freddie yead he had,
Speaker 1: and I'm made of Jimmy Fryes, whatever it might be.
Speaker 1: I need to get in here. I'm an old friend
Speaker 1: of the family. I know Margaret's father, which he did.
Speaker 1: I think they were members of the same Masonic lodge,
Speaker 1: which was a very powerful connection back in those days
Speaker 1: with some people, particularly with homicide squad members. It was
Speaker 1: a big thing, the Masonic Lodge in that era, and
Speaker 1: it would stay a big thing for a fair while.
Speaker 1: Strangely enough, whatever the reason, Anne Cook was allowed into
Speaker 1: the murder scene, he was allowed into the house and
Speaker 1: he told the police there, I have to get some
Speaker 1: letters or a book that I lent Margaret. I want
Speaker 1: to take it out, and I don't want to be
Speaker 1: mixed up in all the inquests and all that. No
Speaker 1: need to drag me into it. I just want to
Speaker 1: take that stuff and not have anything to do with this.
Speaker 1: And so they let him in and he took his.
Speaker 2: Papers or his letters or his book or whatever it was.
Speaker 1: Now that was an interesting decision. It breaks all sorts
Speaker 1: of rules that probably these days wouldn't never be broken
Speaker 1: because you've allowed a crime scene to be permeated and
Speaker 1: to be potentially contaminated. And what it did rightly or wrongly,
Speaker 1: I mean, there might have been absolutely nothing in this
Speaker 1: except he'd maybe written letters to Margaret that he shouldn't
Speaker 1: have and he wanted to retrieve them.
Speaker 2: But what it effectively did was it allowed.
Speaker 1: Him into a crime scene where he could then put
Speaker 1: his fingerprints on things by handling them, and it automatically
Speaker 1: covered him off. If later his fingerprints were found there,
Speaker 1: he could say, well, yeah they were because I went
Speaker 1: in to pick up this book and while I was
Speaker 1: put my hand on the kitchen table and I picked
Speaker 1: up a cup and whatever, and so it was an
Speaker 1: intriguing thing. Now, Ian Cook retired early from the force,
Speaker 1: as I said, under what they used to call boarded out.
Speaker 1: That meant you retired for health reasons. And it was
Speaker 1: a way in the police force that they got rid
Speaker 1: of people. If they wanted to get rid of them
Speaker 1: without sacking them, they could be boarded out under a
Speaker 1: medical excuse.
Speaker 2: They'd say, oh, he's stressed, or he's.
Speaker 1: Having a nervous breakdown or whatever he's got asthma, whatever
Speaker 1: it might be, and they would board them out and
Speaker 1: they would go out on their pension money or whatever
Speaker 1: it was. And what it meant was nothing to see here.
Speaker 1: What it meant was that a lot of people were
Speaker 1: removed quietly from the police force by being boarded out
Speaker 1: with a body medical excuse because the police force no
Speaker 1: longer wanted them there. It's interesting to speculate whether Ian
Speaker 1: Cook fitted that description. It seems to me that probably
Speaker 1: he did. For whatever reason, Ian Cook was well known
Speaker 1: to the Taps. Tap being Margaret's married name. She had
Speaker 1: been married to a man called Don Tap. They'd have
Speaker 1: an amicable divorce, and of course the police had to
Speaker 1: drag him in Parol. Don Tap had to be brought
Speaker 1: in and questioned, and he had the perfect alibi. He
Speaker 1: was with his new wife that night and wasn't a
Speaker 1: problem alibi like crazy. Margaret also had a fourteen year
Speaker 1: old son, interestingly called Justin, and Justin was not living
Speaker 1: there at the time. He was staying with his grandparents,
Speaker 1: with Margaret's parents, Mister and Missus Nelson. The Nelsons were
Speaker 1: a family that had always lived out in that direction,
Speaker 1: out east of Melbourne, and the far eastern suburbs, and
Speaker 1: I think dated back to the old days post war
Speaker 1: when that area was all orchards and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So the Nelsons were a respected old local family. Mister Nelson,
Speaker 1: I think member of the Masonic lodge. The mother, Margaret's
Speaker 1: mother was a teacher and very religious, and they were
Speaker 1: people that were highly respectable and hated the wiff of
Speaker 1: scandal that hung over this murder because clearly it would be,
Speaker 1: you know, clearly apparent to them that the fact that
Speaker 1: Margaret knew a lot of blokes and tended to entertain
Speaker 1: blogs at her home made it difficult for the police
Speaker 1: to navigate the case because there was so many potential suspects,
Speaker 1: and that whiff of scandal meant that the Nelsons, rightly
Speaker 1: or wrongly, did not want to encourage any extra coverage
Speaker 1: of the case. Now, often when there's an unsolved murder
Speaker 1: over the years, we see this, the police will bring
Speaker 1: out the relatives, friends, family, and they put them on
Speaker 1: a stage and the cameras on them, and the family say,
Speaker 1: you know, I really.
Speaker 2: Miss X, or why if they're out there, please.
Speaker 1: Come home, or if you know anything about the murder
Speaker 1: of my beloved daughter, son, sister, wife, please come in
Speaker 1: and tell the police, ring crime stoppers, etc.
Speaker 2: Etc. Etc.
Speaker 1: In this case that didn't happen. One of the reasons was,
Speaker 1: of course Margaret and Shawnan were dead. They hadn't disappeared.
Speaker 1: They were dead, so nothing that the family could do
Speaker 1: would bring them back. The other thing was that, without doubt,
Speaker 1: the family did not want scandalous publicity. And I'm sure
Speaker 1: that they feared scandalous publicity. And I suspect that there
Speaker 1: was a bit of complicit behavior with certain high ranking police,
Speaker 1: probably mister Nelson, Margaret's father, was able to pull the
Speaker 1: odd string and this story, this shocking double murder, which
Speaker 1: in many respects was as serious as the Easy Street
Speaker 1: murders or any of the other big cases, it went
Speaker 1: through to the keeper. Now, I was a young police
Speaker 1: reporter at this time. I was a chief police reporter
Speaker 1: for a Melbourne Daily newspaper, and I can only just
Speaker 1: remember this case happening. And when I look back through
Speaker 1: the files, I see why I don't remember much about it.
Speaker 1: There were only five stories written about it in Toto.
Speaker 1: There was in our files at the newspaper office, there's
Speaker 1: one page with five relatively small stories stuck to it
Speaker 1: because there was just nowhere for this story to go.
Speaker 1: The family weren't making themselves available, the family weren't making
Speaker 1: available photographs, and it just faded from view so very quickly,
Speaker 1: and so many years later, in the year two thousand
Speaker 1: and one, I was in Perth on another story. A
Speaker 1: policeman over there, ex policeman had been blown sky high
Speaker 1: by a bomb sept by the bikies, and very good story.
Speaker 1: And I was over there covering that. And while I
Speaker 1: was there, I looked up a former Melbourne crime reporter
Speaker 1: called rex how rex Haw, good bloke used to work
Speaker 1: at three out Double in the good old days, and
Speaker 1: he knew a lot of police. And when I was
Speaker 1: in Birth I had a chat to him. He is
Speaker 1: Melbourne guy originally and he was married to a woman
Speaker 1: who was related to a Melbourne policeman. And he said,
Speaker 1: while you're here, is something I want to ask him.
Speaker 1: Do you remember the tap case? And I said, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: bit he said, well you should look into it and
Speaker 1: I said why. He said, well, my relative, my brother
Speaker 1: in law or whatever. The policeman you know, Joe Bloggs
Speaker 1: he named him. I know who the guy is. He said,
Speaker 1: he's a very honest copper and a very good one,
Speaker 1: and he has big concerns.
Speaker 2: About that case. And I said why.
Speaker 1: He said, well, he's told me that this old copper
Speaker 1: and Cook, ex copper Ian Cook, was let into the
Speaker 1: crime scene, into the murder house, and he's been some
Speaker 1: sort of cover up. And he said, I don't know
Speaker 1: what it means, if it means anything at all, but
Speaker 1: I reckon it's worth a look now. That alerted me
Speaker 1: to this story, and a couple of years later, on
Speaker 1: the twentieth anniversary of the Tap case, I actually did
Speaker 1: what was really the first serious long form piece of
Speaker 1: journalism about the whole case, and I did I think
Speaker 1: five thousand words that was published in a national magazine
Speaker 1: about the Tap case, and it was an exhaustive study
Speaker 1: of the whole thing, with as many facts as I
Speaker 1: could bring to bear on it now. At that time, obviously,
Speaker 1: I was very keen on the idea that this old
Speaker 1: ex copper and Cook, who I couldn't name at that stage,
Speaker 1: was a person of great interest, and I think he
Speaker 1: legitimately was a person of interest. In fact, he told
Speaker 1: a former homicide squad detective years later up in Painsville
Speaker 1: he retired that you know, the case had sort of
Speaker 1: really upsetting, really wrecked his life because there was so
Speaker 1: much pressure put on him over it and so on
Speaker 1: and so forth, and you know, fair enough. The funny
Speaker 1: thing was, Rexhare said to me that he and his
Speaker 1: wife had visited gipps Land at one time and they
Speaker 1: were friendly with this old homicide copper Jimmy Fry. The
Speaker 1: when I mentioned earlier, and Jimmy Fry said, oh, you
Speaker 1: better come up to Ian Cook's place.
Speaker 2: Cookie's place up at Swiss Creek.
Speaker 1: Swiss Creek is a tiny little town up in the mountains,
Speaker 1: and it's a big district full of farms. And Ian
Speaker 1: Cook he'd done it right for a middling policeman. He
Speaker 1: had a house at Painsful and he had this farm
Speaker 1: up at Swiss Creek. And he said, rex said, we
Speaker 1: went up there. My wife and I drove up and
Speaker 1: we had a barbecue lunch with mister and missus Cook
Speaker 1: and Jimmy Fry and his wife and had a couple
Speaker 1: of beers and lots of steak and all that. And
Speaker 1: he said, My wife, who's a very good judge of character,
Speaker 1: said to me later, I really don't like that Ian Cook.
Speaker 1: He's a very spooky man, really creepy, and that of
Speaker 1: course amounts to nothing. You know, who cares if someone's creepy.
Speaker 1: But it was an interesting observation from a neutral source,
Speaker 1: from a woman who found that he wasn't very nice.
Speaker 1: And that's one of the reasons that Rexhaw encouraged me
Speaker 1: to look into Cook and write the story, which I
Speaker 1: did on the twentieth anniversary. Now, essentially that story came
Speaker 1: and went, but I never really let it go. Every
Speaker 1: time there was a chance to look into it again,
Speaker 1: I would try and add a little bit to the
Speaker 1: whole thing, and I would gradually pull together more material. Well,
Speaker 1: so much for Ian Cook, former policeman, someone who early
Speaker 1: doors was an interesting candidate for the tap murders. Next episode,
Speaker 1: we're going to look at a lot of other people
Speaker 1: won As a PostScript to this story, the police didn't
Speaker 1: find many useful clues at the murder house at the scene.
Speaker 1: In fact, I don't know that they searched the place
Speaker 1: that well. Because when Margaret's son, justin four the end
Speaker 1: at the time, when he got to the house, rushed
Speaker 1: in to check things very anguished. He pulled out his
Speaker 1: mother's mattress, tipped it up and put his hand on
Speaker 1: her jewelry, just to make sure it hadn't been stolen.
Speaker 1: You know, he was very upset, and that's the first
Speaker 1: thing he did. But that showed that the police had
Speaker 1: not tipped the mattress over and had not found the jewelry,
Speaker 1: So you would wonder how tharah a job they'd done.
Speaker 1: One thing they did find that probably is the only
Speaker 1: strong clue to the killer's identity were some footprints, some
Speaker 1: unidentified footprints left by a dunlop volley sanchu. In all
Speaker 1: these cases, it's not just those who are murdered, it's
Speaker 1: those who are left behind. Margaret Tap left behind a
Speaker 1: grievously wounded boy of fourteen years old. He had moved
Speaker 1: out of his mother's house to live with his grandparents.
Speaker 1: He undoubtedly blamed himself for the rest of his life
Speaker 1: because he hadn't been there, and he would have tortured himself.
Speaker 1: He told friends, if I'd been home, it wouldn't have happened.
Speaker 1: If I'd been there, it wouldn't have happened. And you
Speaker 1: know what, that's probably true. If there'd been a fourteen
Speaker 1: year old boy in the house that night. There's every
Speaker 1: chance it would not have happened. It would have changed things.
Speaker 1: And so this boy, Justin blamed himself. He could never
Speaker 1: get away from it. He was a keen amate, a cricketer.
Speaker 1: He used to play cricket in social and suburban teams.
Speaker 1: He had an English passport. I think he was a
Speaker 1: dual passport holder because I think perhaps his father, Don
Speaker 1: Tap was English. And later on, as a young adult,
Speaker 1: he went to England. He left Australia to sort of
Speaker 1: get away from all this, and he lived at high
Speaker 1: Wickham in Buckinghamshire. I think it is, I've been there.
Speaker 1: I think it's buckingham Share. It's a good hour out
Speaker 1: of London by train. It's a fair fair distance. And
Speaker 1: I went there hoping to talk to Justin. But by
Speaker 1: the time I got to England and took the train
Speaker 1: to high Wickham, Justin was no longer with us.
Speaker 2: He was dead.
Speaker 1: And I met instead his long term partner. He had
Speaker 1: a female partner, a lovely lady called Wendy, Wendy O'Donovan
Speaker 1: I think her name was. And she met me at
Speaker 1: the station and she took me home to her place,
Speaker 1: and I met a daughter and we talked, and she
Speaker 1: explained to me that Justin was a lovely guy and
Speaker 1: that she really loved him, but in the end his
Speaker 1: demons didn't allow him to live with them. He used
Speaker 1: to drink heavily to blot out the dreams. He had
Speaker 1: bad dreams and he'd scream or whatever, and he drank
Speaker 1: heavily to try and blot it out. And in the
Speaker 1: end he had removed himself from her place and gone
Speaker 1: and lived in a rented flat somewhere, and they'd split
Speaker 1: up amicably. But they'd split up, and she realized, she
Speaker 1: said that she hadn't seen him for a while, and
Speaker 1: she went around. It was summertime in England, and she
Speaker 1: drove around to where he lived and she went to
Speaker 1: the door and she noticed that all these flies and everything,
Speaker 1: and I think she got some good letter in or
Speaker 1: broke the window or whatever. They got into the place
Speaker 1: and there was his body, and he'd been dead so
Speaker 1: long that it was actually impossible for the authorities to
Speaker 1: tell what it actually killed him. But she believed that
Speaker 1: he drank and drank and drank until he died. Tragic
Speaker 1: and to that part of the Margaret tap story. So
Speaker 1: the killer, the killer, we don't know who it is
Speaker 1: killed Margaret Tap thirty five, killed a nine year old daughter, Shauna,
Speaker 1: and eventually you know, thirty odd years later killed Margaret's
Speaker 1: son justin a complete tragedy.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: Life and Crimes is a Sunday Herald's Sun production for
Speaker 1: true crime Australia. Our producer is Johnty Burton. For my columns,
Speaker 1: features and more, go to Haroldson dot com dot au,
Speaker 1: forward slash andrew rule one word.
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