1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,759 Speaker 1: I'll get a team. Welcome to another installment you project. 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: It's bloody aarps in the thriving metropolis of Melbourne. It's raining, 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: it's raining like the middle of winter here. It's cloudy, 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: it's dark, it's it's kind of cold, and we're about 5 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: three minutes away from bloody summer. What's it like in Karatha, 6 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: doctor Sam? 7 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really starting to heat up over here? 8 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: Is it's the what's the I should know this? But 9 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: is it is Caratha very humid or is it just hot? 10 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 2: It's very humid? Yeah? 11 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 3: Right? 12 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: And so what's what's your favorite what's the most comfortable 13 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: or maybe that depends that's person in person. What's your 14 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: favorite time of the year? What is it winter? Is 15 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: it autumn, spring, summer? 16 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 4: That's a good one, not that it feels like we 17 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 4: go through all the seasons, but I definitely think that 18 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 4: September is a really good time. And April, so yeah, 19 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 4: that's I see the best. 20 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: How long does it take to drive from person to 21 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:01,639 Speaker 1: Kartha if you were going. 22 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 2: To drive about eighteen hours? 23 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah god. So that's like that's like Melbourne 24 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 1: to Sydney and beyond. Like, yeah, Melbourne and Sydney's. That's 25 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: like double more than double. 26 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 2: Maybe you need to do it in like two days 27 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 2: at least. 28 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you wouldn't have you ever driven it. You 29 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: wouldn't bother it, would you. 30 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, because you can kind of make it like a 31 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 4: road trip. You know, you could stop off at a 32 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 4: few places, and yeah, I have driven it, but I 33 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 4: definitely don't do it often because you know, to shaves 34 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:32,199 Speaker 4: off time of your trips. 35 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 5: So so when people when people come to Karafa, do 36 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 5: they are they overwhelmed with the heat and the humidity 37 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 5: and you're like, what do you mean it's just Tuesday, 38 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 5: because you're fully acclimated. 39 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's exactly what happens. I think people kind of 40 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 4: get shot and they're like, Wow, this is so hot, 41 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 4: and you know, coming into the summer month, I'm like, 42 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 4: oh this, there's nothing yet. 43 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 2: You know, this is our cooler month. So you're right. 44 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 4: My body definitely has like a climatized to it. Even 45 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 4: though I grew up from pair, I definitely feel like 46 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 4: I'm a country girl now. 47 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: Des A Gal Well, thank you for getting up at 48 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: stupid o'clock. As we record this, it's just after five 49 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: point forty five in the morning, So clearly your a 50 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: morning person. Does your brain work better in the am 51 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: than the PM or neither. 52 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 4: I've had to make myself an early person because I 53 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 4: found that's the only way I can get any exercise done, 54 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 4: and it really sets me out for the day. But 55 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 4: I definitely feel like I'm a natural night ours or 56 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 4: it's definitely a bit of a tug of war between 57 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 4: my mind working probably better at night, but my body 58 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 4: working better in the morning. 59 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: So back in the old days, when you were a 60 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: kid two years ago and you're you're doing your PhD 61 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: and you're up to your eyeballs in fucking research and 62 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: bullshit and long nights and stress and anxiety and submissions 63 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: and all of that, when did you do your best work, 64 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: like your best study, your best research, your best focus. 65 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 2: Nine pm to twelve am. 66 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 4: So when I yeah, when ID the first when I 67 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 4: went back to my PhD. So I first started, and 68 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 4: I got pregnant at the same time, you know, as 69 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 4: you do. And so then I took actually I took 70 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 4: a few months off and I went back and I 71 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 4: was doing it part time, very part time. And when 72 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 4: I went back, I had three hours like a chunk 73 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 4: off the day where I wasn't feeding my daughter, felt 74 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 4: like I got a three hour chunk. Usually should be feeding, 75 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 4: you know, over two hours, but there was this one 76 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:28,959 Speaker 4: little moment where it was between nine pm and twelve am, 77 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 4: and that's where I would do my best way. Yeah, 78 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 4: so I definitely became the night out because of that. 79 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 4: And it was amazing, though, how little sleep I got 80 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 4: and how energized I felt during that period of my life. 81 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 4: And I think it was because I just love the research, 82 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 4: and it was, yeah, it was you know, compared to 83 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 4: maybe you know, mums that would maybe spend that time 84 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 4: cleaning or you know, kind of numbing out right from 85 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 4: the day because you're exhausted. I felt like I was 86 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 4: really recharging when I got to, you know, spend that 87 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 4: time doing research. 88 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 2: So I just woke up feeling great. 89 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: Isn't it funny when you're doing something and it feels 90 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: like your purpose or your reason or your mission more 91 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: than just a requirement or a job or a thing 92 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: you've got to do to create an outcome. How much 93 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:18,119 Speaker 1: more energy and excitement and enjoyment you have in that process. 94 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 2: It feels so different. 95 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 4: And I know when I was doing a lot of 96 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 4: therapy with mums and they're like, I just can't fit 97 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 4: this in my day. I'm so exhausted, you know, looking 98 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 4: at what they were sitting their energy and time. It 99 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 4: it is sometimes hard to explain. You know, it's not 100 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 4: necessarily swapping out something for something, you know, it's actually 101 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 4: like the energizing stuff, right, how much energy depleting stuff 102 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 4: that we have on our plates as mums and then yeah, 103 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 4: really being able to add in some of our passions 104 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 4: and things that we actually love back and how that 105 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 4: actually gives us more what feels like more times? 106 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 1: Can I ask you free kid to post kid, did 107 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: your body change in any way, like as in you 108 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: just seem to do better on less sleep or you 109 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: need more sleep? Or of course your body changed, but 110 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about that, but in terms of the reset, 111 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: like the default setting, or do you think it's more 112 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: that you're thinking in your mind and your attitudes and 113 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: just your priorities changed or something else. 114 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 4: Oh it's a good one because I got diagnosed with 115 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 4: an audioary disease after I had my son, so I 116 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 4: guess I potentially could have had that before though, so 117 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 4: I wouldn't really know. 118 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 2: But that changed. 119 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 4: I think I became because I'm a mom, right, you 120 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 4: know you've got limited time. I think I became a 121 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 4: bit more of a doer than I was before because 122 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 4: it had such limited time. 123 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 2: And I think I actually became probably be more driven, because. 124 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 4: Before, I guess I didn't feel like I was like, oh, 125 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 4: you know, you've got time for that. You know eventually 126 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 4: I'll get to that. But when you're a mom, you're like, 127 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 4: oh my gosh, like I need to get these things done, 128 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 4: and I want I want to do all these things. 129 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 4: So I think, yeah, I became a bit more driven, 130 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 4: if anything, and probably more intentional. 131 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 6: I think with my time and my any, I feel 132 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 6: like sometimes when we don't have to do something right, 133 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 6: we know that we can put it off and it's 134 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 6: probably not going. 135 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: To be catastrophic. Right we go, I'll do it Monday, 136 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: or i'll do it next week, or i'll do it soon, 137 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: or I'll do and then sometimes that you know, tomorrow 138 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 1: or next week or soon on January one, or whatever 139 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: the date or the number is in your head, will 140 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: Now we're seven years down the track, and now I'm 141 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: still not doing the thing that I've been talking about doing. 142 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: And for seven years I've been explaining to myself and 143 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 1: rationalizing with myself why I don't need to do it now, 144 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 1: and then sometimes reality, which could be you know, health, 145 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: or it could be something else, but kind of punches 146 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: you in the face and goes, well, now you don't 147 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 1: have a choice. Now you've got to deal with it. 148 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: Now you've backed yourself into a metaphoric corner where you 149 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: can't put this off now. 150 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so true. 151 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 4: And I think sometimes motherhood can act so create the 152 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 4: perfect conditions for avoidance because a lot of people will say, 153 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 4: now it's not the time, I've got young kids. I'll 154 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 4: wait till they're older. And it actually can become harder 155 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 4: when they're older, because it doesn't stop. You know, you 156 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 4: become a parent to a school age childe. You've got 157 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 4: you know those after school sports and things like that. 158 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 4: You've got you know, teenagers, you're dropping them off places 159 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 4: or you're helping them out with certain things. And then 160 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 4: you've got adults and your grandparent life. So it actually 161 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 4: doesn't stop. And when we look at these external conditions. 162 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 2: And we realize it's it's really not about that. 163 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 4: It's actually about how we're approaching it and how we're 164 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 4: seeing it, and we can neither use it as fuel 165 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 4: to get stuff done, or we can use that as 166 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 4: almost like a barrier. 167 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: Now, I don't know if this is appropriate or inappropriate, 168 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: So if it's inappropriate, we'll take it out. 169 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: Doc, Yeah, worried? 170 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: So how long how old is your son? Firstly, he 171 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: can and for how long have you been a single 172 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: mom or a single parent? 173 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 2: So three years? So when he was seven? 174 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: Right? 175 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 2: Is eight? 176 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: So does right? So you've got and a ten year old? 177 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 6: Yeah? 178 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,119 Speaker 1: Are they with you most of the time, all the time, 179 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: half the time the time? Okay? Okay, okay? And so 180 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: when you like and this is really common obviously, it's 181 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: not not like you're a unicorners where you and your 182 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: husband aren't together anymore and stuff happens and whatever. You know, 183 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: people move on, people change direction in their life. Right, So, 184 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: how have you had to teach the kids and talk 185 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: to the kids and kind of navigate this stuff with 186 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:38,239 Speaker 1: them emotionally? And being as you're essentially a childhood specialist 187 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: or a kid specialist and a psychologist, do you put 188 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: on the psychology hat or do you just leave on 189 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: the mum hat for that? 190 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really interesting because you kind of can fight 191 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 4: with your brain with that because you can see things, right, yes, 192 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 4: but yeah, you know your mum, so I think. And 193 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:58,719 Speaker 4: we've all got our own stories around that too, right, 194 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 4: So my parents are gray when I was younger, Sae, 195 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 4: then you've got that kind of lens that I come 196 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 4: with too. 197 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 2: So I think it's difficult. 198 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 4: Because, especially being someone you know who works in the industry, 199 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 4: there is so much that we can know, but it's 200 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 4: also so much that's outify control, and so what do 201 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 4: we do in those situations? Right, Well, we can see 202 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 4: the situation, we can see things, and then it's like, well, 203 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 4: this is what I can see, this massive bit, but 204 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 4: I have like a slice of control here and I 205 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 4: kind of have to have somewhat acceptance of other things. 206 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 4: And so that's been a really good lesson for me, 207 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 4: and that as well in really focusing again on my 208 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 4: own growth and also knowing that their story is going 209 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 4: to be different from my story and supporting them through that. 210 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 4: Sometimes I think we think it's a separation or the 211 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 4: divorce that actually harms kids, but what we know it's 212 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 4: really the conflict and that can be in a marriage 213 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 4: or out of the marriage, right, So it's really trying 214 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 4: to minimize children's exposure to that, but then also knowing 215 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 4: a lot of the pain comes from people dismissing it, 216 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 4: right like you know, you're okay, you'll leave what two 217 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 4: of everything or look at the bright side, just straight 218 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 4: into kind of problem solving mode, rather than sitting with 219 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 4: the pain and knowing that for a lot of kids, right, 220 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 4: like the whole world's kind of fall apart, them having 221 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,119 Speaker 4: to rebuild, and so allowing for I think that transition 222 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 4: was probably probably one of the most tricky bits for 223 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 4: me and for them, right because we've got again, well 224 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 4: we're going through different things at the time. But I 225 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 4: think it is such a good lesson on, I would say, 226 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 4: being able to really sit with transitions, right because this 227 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 4: is one part a divorce, those separation, but kids will 228 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 4: lose people in their life. That's another sense of grief 229 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 4: and loss, and so I think these days we are 230 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 4: trying to kind of protect kids a bit too much 231 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 4: from that, rather than letting them go through these transitions 232 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 4: and allowing them to sit in that pain or sit 233 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 4: in that yeah, that that face of their life and 234 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 4: then being. 235 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 2: Able to find the joy within that. 236 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 4: So I think, yeah, it's been definitely a learning experience 237 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 4: on a lot of levels. 238 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: For me, that's such an interesting and to me anyway 239 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: refreshing perspective is that sometimes we've got to let the 240 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: kids just sit in the pain and feel that because 241 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: we're going to lose people and grief is part of life. 242 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: In a time when it seems like we're trying to 243 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:16,599 Speaker 1: protect children from every possible thing all the time, any discomfort, 244 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: any conflict, like so that you know, we're going to 245 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: nerse their world until they're eighteen. We don't want them 246 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 1: to have to deal with anything hard because you know, 247 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: the motives are good. Of course that's a good motive. 248 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: I don't want my kid to feel any pain or 249 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: discomfort or but a kid that grows up never having 250 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: to deal with pain or discomfort or uncertainty, you know, 251 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: or any of those things, and people will go, you're 252 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: not a fucking parent, I agree. But from the outside 253 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: looking in, it seems like kids having to deal with 254 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: hard things sometimes, you know, as long as there's a 255 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: caring parent, probably not too far away. But being able 256 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: to deal with hardshit is not the worst preparation for 257 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: becoming an adult, for building resilience, for building understanding, for 258 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 1: building awareness, for being able to solve problems, for being 259 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: able to deal with complexity and difficulty, which is just 260 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: the fucking human experience. 261 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think you're so right on this. I 262 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 4: see this a lot, and I even experienced this a lot, 263 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 4: and I can see this. Oh, you know, we're torn, 264 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 4: right because on one hand, I know that I I mean, 265 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 4: you know, seeing a child at pain is horrible, right 266 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 4: because you know, this is like it feels like this 267 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:29,839 Speaker 4: natural instinct to protect them and you don't want them 268 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 4: to go through any of the hardships. But also I've 269 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 4: noticed parents have this story attached, so it's not just 270 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 4: like my child has failed I don't know school, it's 271 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 4: like my child is fail school and. 272 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 2: That means I'm a bad parent and I haven't done enough. 273 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 4: And so they've got this other story attached, so they 274 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 4: see a child's failure as a reflection of them. Then 275 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 4: on the other hand, what's really difficult for me looking 276 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 4: in is I know I've actually learned most of my 277 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 4: things through failures. I've learned the things that look so 278 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 4: messy probably from the outside, right, well, the times where 279 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 4: I felt like really not down by life, I've actually 280 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 4: learned the most and that's character building, I think, And 281 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 4: so I very much like this version of me. But 282 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 4: then to get this version of me, I had to 283 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 4: go through these hard things and challenges. So yeah, how 284 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 4: do we allow children to be able to go through 285 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 4: those things without trying to save them, without trying to 286 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 4: make it better, all without trying to fix it just 287 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 4: because that makes us feel good. 288 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 2: That will be the struggle I think for all parents. 289 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: Do you think that sometimes our intended or our intention 290 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: to protect them could be unintentionally harming them? 291 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, definitely, And that's the problem. 292 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 4: People think, well, I've got a good intention about this, 293 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,439 Speaker 4: But I think when we focus on that too much. 294 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,119 Speaker 2: It's almost like we lose perspective. 295 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,199 Speaker 4: So, for example, I think if I was my daughter 296 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 4: when I started my PhD, and I think if I 297 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 4: didn't go through that process, right, the messiness of sitting 298 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 4: in front of a flaking paper and not knowing what 299 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 4: to write, and probably having my own little versions of 300 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 4: adult tantrums, I don't think I would have been able 301 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 4: to sit with, say when they're trying to figure out 302 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 4: a you know, their own school work for example, their 303 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 4: own struggles. And so I think, what we need to 304 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 4: do and be able to get those perspectives. If, for example, 305 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 4: wild about resilience is do hard things as a parent, 306 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 4: start to work on your own goals, start to challenge 307 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 4: yourself with things that you think you can't do, and 308 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 4: so you'll see this other version of yourself come out, 309 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 4: which is one that is like. 310 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 2: Okay, this is difficult, this is tough. 311 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 4: And so then we're able to, I guess, create more 312 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 4: space for children to be able to have those challenges 313 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 4: as well. 314 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 2: And it's not even a time issue. 315 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 4: Like if you really were to sit with yourself as 316 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 4: a parent and say, ten minutes a day, I'm going 317 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 4: to focus on my passion, ten minutes a day, I'm 318 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 4: going to focus on content or you know, studying or whatever, you'll. 319 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 2: Still see how hard that is. 320 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 4: Like everyone can find ten minutes, but it is hard 321 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 4: to do hard things. But I think we definitely lose 322 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 4: perspective when we are focusing our whole lives on our 323 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 4: children and like I need to give them all the 324 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 4: opportunities so that they can have the best life. We 325 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 4: don't build the resilience and do we because we're trying 326 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 4: to orchestrate it all for them. 327 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: We're trying to micromanage every minutes and mitigate every potential 328 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: danger and solve every problem before the problem arises. And 329 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: then the kid doesn't know how you know, to be 330 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: able to deal with the hard stuff because they've never 331 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: had to. Maybe that's the outcome, or maybe is more inherent. 332 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: But I feel like, you know, like with grown ups, 333 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: I deal with grown ups way more. But you know, 334 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: when I want to help someone with a problem or 335 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: a challenge of grown up, I know that even if 336 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: five people have got the same problem, I need to 337 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: approach it five different ways because I've got five different 338 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: humans with five different backgrounds and mindsets and levels of 339 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: understanding and resilience. And so even trying to solve or 340 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: at least address the same issue, generally one have the 341 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: exact same antidote or solution. 342 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 4: Yes, that's a good point, and I think sometimes different 343 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 4: skills are needed for different times. So perfect example of this, 344 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 4: right is of course, play therapy. So we think about 345 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 4: the kids, right like, sometimes we're in situations where they 346 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 4: are faced with a problem, We're like, okay, what can. 347 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: We do, Let's try this? How about this? 348 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 4: But then there's times, and especially in play, where we 349 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 4: have the space to do this right, we're not trying 350 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 4: to rush out the door or at eight am to 351 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 4: get to school. Well, we have time to sit with 352 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 4: it and allow them to find their own problem solving. 353 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 4: So a perfect example of this right is a child 354 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 4: wanting to create, say a car out of the cardboard box. 355 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 4: Now what we learn as in a teaching kind of perspective, right, 356 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 4: We'll say they'll say, you know, I want to build 357 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 4: this car, and you'll be like, oh, I have the 358 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 4: best thing for this. I've got red paint here, I've 359 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 4: got a you know, paper plate. We could use a 360 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 4: steering wheel. How about we you know, do these wheels. 361 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 4: And every time they come up with something, we're going 362 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 4: to try and make it better. Okay, we're kind of 363 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 4: filling the gaps with that, but with the child's centered 364 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 4: play therapy, those kind of skills. When we're sitting with 365 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 4: the child, the child will say I want to build 366 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 4: a red car. And so we're sitting there and we're like, okay, 367 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 4: sounds like you've got a plan, and they're like, but 368 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 4: I don't know what to do with the wheels. You 369 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 4: might say, hmm, you seem a bit stuck. 370 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 2: I'm not sure what to do next. 371 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 4: Do you see how I'm not fixing out, I'm reflecting back. 372 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 4: So I'm reflecting back the content of what they're doing. 373 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,679 Speaker 4: I'm reflecting back the feeling. I might even reflect back 374 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 4: the effort. Right, you know, you're trying really hard to 375 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 4: figure this next bit out and then I'm pausing. And 376 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,880 Speaker 4: so what that allows them is space to think about 377 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 4: this their own internal voice. 378 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 2: Now they may come up with a solution that we. 379 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 4: Think, oh my god, that's not going to work, or 380 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 4: you know, we could have used something else better, But hey, 381 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 4: we're sitting with that and we're letting that play out. 382 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 4: And that is so hard for us adults because we 383 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 4: lead the problem solving bit and we can see this vision. 384 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 4: What we're not allowing them to do is to go 385 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 4: through their own what would you call it experimenting right 386 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 4: with things like let them experience it not working out, 387 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,919 Speaker 4: or let them experience a substandard version of what you 388 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 4: thought that car was, because guess what the next bit 389 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,719 Speaker 4: is actually them playing a character with that car, and 390 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 4: that is what they're trying to get to. It's probably 391 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 4: a lot of the time not so much about the car, 392 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 4: but actually what that car was intended to do in 393 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 4: the place. So I think that's a really good example 394 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 4: of again giving spaces where we have the time and 395 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 4: the space to actually allow their own internal kind of concepts. 396 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 2: To come out. 397 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: I love that so much. I feel like, you know, 398 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: as the parent or the adult, or the teacher, even 399 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: even adults. Working with adults is like to create a 400 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 1: context or an environment or a situation where they have 401 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,360 Speaker 1: to solve the problem. So you're kind of giving them 402 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: an opportunity to lean into critical thinking. And so we're 403 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: trying to teach kids how to think, not to tell 404 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: them what to think right, how to think for themselves, 405 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: not become a version of us the teacher. 406 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, and the critical thinking is huge we think about 407 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 4: in this day and age with school, they don't focus 408 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 4: as much on critical thinking because you know, it's like 409 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 4: the spelling and the grammar. And because I've gone through 410 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 4: this process, I'm focusing on my critical thinking. 411 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 2: I can see that. 412 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 4: So, you know, when my daughter's showing me a story 413 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 4: right that she's getting out for school, I can easily 414 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 4: ignore the spelling and grammar. I mean, she's probably a 415 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 4: lot better at that than me anyway. But I'm looking 416 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 4: at the critical thinking. So I think when we foster 417 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 4: that within ourselves, we understand what, you know, the goal 418 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 4: should be, and then we're able to kind of mute 419 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 4: out the rest. 420 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: I think part of the issue is that we are 421 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: inundated with stuff, with information, with ideas, with content, you know, 422 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: by creators. And that's not a bad thing, that's just 423 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: the situation we're in. And so I think a lot 424 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: of times we just accept stuff. You know, we go, oh, 425 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: like when someone says to me, which I get a 426 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: fair bit, I've done my research and blah blah blah. 427 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: I go, okay, what was that research? And what they're 428 00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: telling me is I watched a YouTube video. Yeah, I 429 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,239 Speaker 1: mean that's their research. I'm like, all right, so, and 430 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,199 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be condescending or ready you just 431 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 1: go cool, So you watched a YouTube video by a 432 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: bloke or a lady who got in front of camera 433 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: and said stuff. So you just heard someone else say stuff. 434 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 1: That isn't research. That's just you watching something that may 435 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: or may not be true. That's not you thinking critically, 436 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: that's you adopting someone else's thinking. That you memorize something 437 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: and then redistributing that to your social kind of sphere. 438 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: As data or you know, it's like, no, that's the 439 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: opposite of critical thinking. That makes you almost like an 440 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: unconscious passenger in their court thought cult, you know, where 441 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: you like, now, what they're saying could be true, but 442 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 1: fucking lean into it. I read this. I read this. 443 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: Somebody sent me this research and it said they were 444 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: talking about they talked, oh, that's right. They were talking 445 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 1: about the benefits of hanging right, so you know, just 446 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 1: hanging from a chin bar, which, by the way, hanging 447 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: from a chin bar can be quite good. And they 448 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: were talking about how amazing it is for like spinal 449 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: issues and decompression of the spine and you know, like 450 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: lumbar bulges and all these disc problems and all this shit, right, 451 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: And obviously I'm an XI scientist, so I'm like, yeah, 452 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: maybe maybe, And then it quotes this research from the 453 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: Mayo Clinic in twenty nineteen. I'm like, well, this is 454 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: at least there's you know, it's like and one of 455 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: the things was surgeons now spinal surgeons are now telling 456 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: people not to have surgery and to do this. I'm like, well, fuck, 457 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 1: they're not doing that, that's bullshit, right. So then I 458 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: went so I read this thing that someone sent me 459 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: and they went, you'll like this and it's research based datata. 460 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: Then I went to find the research. The research doesn't exist. 461 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: It was all AI generated bullshit. So even something that 462 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: someone said me sent me that had these references alleged references, 463 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 1: when I did a deep dive, it was like, oh, 464 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: this research done at the Mayo Clinic in twenty nineteen, 465 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: and I spent twenty minutes trying to it doesn't exist. 466 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: That research doesn't exist. 467 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 4: So and yeah, and so this is what's really hard 468 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 4: that with research, as you know, we could see research 469 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 4: that supports the other side, and so then we actually 470 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 4: have to use critical thinking to make it, you know, 471 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 4: make a decision. And so a lot of parents, I think, 472 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 4: get really stuck with this because they're like, what does 473 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 4: the research say? And then they're getting pulled from every 474 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 4: direction and they're just not allowing enough time for critical 475 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 4: thinking and going actually, what with all these things there? 476 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 2: What's it right with you? 477 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 4: With challenging like your bias and your assumptions and the 478 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 4: stories that we tell ourselves, like it's sometimes we'll only 479 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 4: find research is for what we want to see. 480 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, confirmation bias, the old their coach chamber, you know. 481 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: And the thing is too, It's like you might go, oh, well, 482 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: what we know is that, you know, most elite basketballers 483 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: are taller than six for six, and you go, oh, well, 484 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: I'm six' one, okay, fin's you know. And then you go, oh, 485 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: but also, well that is true, but also there are 486 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: basketballers that are under six foot that are fucking amazing 487 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: and playing the NBA and the NBL and a world 488 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: class and have representing their country at the Olympics. And 489 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 1: oh so it's not you know, exclusively this or that. 490 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: You know. So I think that realizing that a lot 491 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: of a lot of data and a lot of these 492 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: kind of numbers that get thrown around or this information 493 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,719 Speaker 1: is often more indicative than it is conclusive, if not 494 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: complete bullshit at times. 495 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I feel like the more that we can 496 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 4: just focus on the extent or right, we forget our 497 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 4: own data that we may be gathering about ourselves or 498 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 4: own patterns and being able to actually reflect on those, 499 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,360 Speaker 4: because I think that they're actually a lot more helpful 500 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 4: sometimes in the way that we then go, what's our 501 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 4: next step? Okay, well, let's look at what we been doing. 502 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 4: Is that really waking for us, Okay, what do we 503 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 4: need to tweak and change rather than trying to find 504 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 4: this extental like give me the answer and then it's 505 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 4: not still sitting right. 506 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: What's the difference for you as a teacher and as 507 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: a psychologist, or as an educator and a psychologist. What 508 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: is the difference between learning and memorizing information? 509 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 2: Because learning I feel. 510 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: Like, yeah, sorry, shut up, no, you go go. 511 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 4: I don't think we're learning. I thought that's a critical 512 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 4: thinking that we were talking about. The memorizing, which often 513 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 4: schools really focus on piece of stuff where you're just 514 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 4: trying to regurgitate information but you don't quite understand it. 515 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, or even if you do understand it, it's like, 516 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: and I'm not saying there should be no none of that. 517 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: I'm just saying, yeah, it's like all of these things 518 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 1: I think are worth putting under the spotlight. And sometimes 519 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: people push back and it's like, why are you anti educational? 520 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: I'm definitely not, like I'm literally in the education system literally, 521 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: but I think it's worth just questioning. It's like, I'm 522 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: sure with your daughter who's eight and your son who's ten, 523 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: if you you wanted to teach them both something. Depending 524 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: on the something and the situation, you might teach them 525 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: differently because you know they don't think the same or 526 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,160 Speaker 1: respond the same or learn the same. 527 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 4: Oh, definitely the way that they learns different. And their 528 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 4: interests in the curiosity. And I think for me, when 529 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 4: I look at like they learning or teaching, it's I like, 530 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 4: the curiosity tell me, show me something that a child 531 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 4: will focus on that little bit longer than others, right, 532 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 4: that they're interested in They've got a question about something, 533 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 4: they notice something, and then you follow that lead. 534 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 2: I think that that's just such a. 535 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 4: More forganic way rather than going now we're learning this, 536 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 4: or you should learn this. It's like, wow, you're actually 537 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 4: interested in that, let's like follow that through. I think 538 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 4: that's where the critical thinking can come in. That's where 539 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 4: the passions, right, you're really fostered during that within them. 540 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 1: We kind of touched on before the fact that we 541 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: want kids to be able to deal with life all 542 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: the practical messy, good and bad peaks and trust fair 543 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 1: and unfair because that's life. Life's fair, Life's unfair. You know, 544 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 1: bad things happen to good people. We get all of that. 545 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: So how do we keep our kids safe in inverted 546 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: commas while creating an environment or a context or a 547 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: situation where they can build resilience, like where they can 548 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: fall down but not kill themselves. 549 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I guess it's so tricky because there are 550 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 4: obviously so like safety conscious these days, and for very 551 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 4: good reason. I think it's if you could imagine and 552 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 4: we can talk about you know, I don't know, the 553 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 4: school environment or educcasionally or whatever, right, I think the 554 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 4: focus becomes on a child falling down, parents get caught up, 555 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 4: and that we're trying to stop that, rather than going, 556 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 4: how can we cover from this really quick? I got 557 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 4: a train on a train track? You know, Okay, we're 558 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 4: off track? How can we get back on track? 559 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 2: Like? What what does that look like? 560 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,719 Speaker 4: And the first part about that is to acknowledge you're 561 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 4: off track, And a lot of parents skip that right 562 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 4: because they're like, let's just get back on track really quickly, 563 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 4: or why do we even get off the track of 564 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 4: the first place. We need to prevent this from ever 565 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,199 Speaker 4: happening again, rather than going you got off track, Like, 566 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 4: let's sit with that. You got off track, that's normal, 567 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 4: That's okay, all right? Now, what do we need to 568 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 4: do to get on track. So I think it's just 569 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 4: being able to to sit with that, but then yeah, 570 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 4: being able to continue on. And I think the issue 571 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 4: with the resilience is what we think resilience should be. 572 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 4: And if you think about I mean me, I could 573 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 4: say I think their blood learns so much about resilience 574 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 4: from just going through the PhD and knowing a lot 575 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 4: of people would say, well, you're resilient. 576 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 2: Was that you've got it, But if you. 577 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 4: Were to see me doing it, most of the time 578 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 4: I was struggling like most with me struggling right, me 579 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 4: not knowing what to do, me wanting to quit, me 580 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 4: not seeing a way out of it. And then obviously 581 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 4: after those points I then found away. And so it 582 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 4: was a lot messier than what I thought. And when 583 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 4: I look back at, say, my school years, maybe it 584 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 4: looks probably like I didn't care. 585 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 2: It looked like I wasn't trying. 586 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 4: It looked like I I probably wasn't even aiming high 587 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 4: enough at all. And that's because it's that fear of failure, right, 588 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 4: And a lot of kids will do that. A lot 589 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 4: of kids you'll see and they're like they're not resilient 590 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 4: because they're not even trying, or they just give up 591 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 4: so easily. It's because they don't know how to come 592 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 4: back from failure. They're too scared to fail in the 593 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 4: first place. 594 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 2: So I think the more we. 595 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 4: Can have these stories so people actually succeeding, but part 596 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 4: of that success was failing so much. You know, there's 597 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,400 Speaker 4: like famous authors, you know, JK. Rowling, all of those 598 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 4: kind of stories. I think you're really helpful because then 599 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 4: we realized, actually part of every one of these stories 600 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 4: is struggle. It's failure, like that's normal, it's just not really. 601 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. And it's like, you think about so 602 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: the hard stuff you went through doing your PhD. You know, 603 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: relationship ending so navigating that or the psychological emotional I 604 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: guess financial practical stuff around that. Then you know, raising 605 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: or co raising your kids with your ex and then 606 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: trying to build a business like you've done and then 607 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: trying to you know, like, it's in that pain, and 608 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: it's in that uncertainty, and it's in that discomfort, and 609 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: it's in that unfamiliarity that you develop the capacity to 610 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: survive and thrive. But if everything had been just a 611 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: straight line, easy, like no peaks and troughs, just like 612 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: this beautiful linear every day was fucking Disneyland. When the 613 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 1: shit hits the fan, which it always will, at some stage, 614 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: you're in trouble because you haven't had to deal with 615 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: anything hard. But you've done such good work in the 616 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: middle of the hard that I'm sure your level of 617 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: resilience and your capacity is way better than it was 618 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: ten years ago, very. 619 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 4: Much so, because what you learn to then realize is 620 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 4: like there or will never be perfect conditions or what 621 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 4: I thought was perfect, you know, perfect conditions, actually say 622 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 4: wasn't or isn't. So then what do I do. Do 623 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 4: I wait for my life to be perfect at all 624 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 4: those things? Or do I find these moments of joy 625 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 4: or find these moments of being able to practice out 626 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 4: values within this right? And I think a lot of 627 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 4: the time we don't, like you said, get enough opportunity. 628 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 4: It's almost like going, I'll start the exercise routine in 629 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 4: the new year when I can get a gym membership 630 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 4: and I have time to do an hour long workout, 631 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 4: rather than going I'm on holiday right now, I can 632 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 4: actually go do ten push ups, like in the lounge room. 633 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 4: Like that's sometimes it's as simple as that, Right, And 634 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 4: So I think when things change and transition in your 635 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 4: life and you go through how stuff, you realize, Okay, 636 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 4: I could wait for the storm to pass to do 637 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 4: the things, or I could actually find ways within these 638 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 4: imperfect conditions to live the life that I want to 639 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 4: be who I say I am right and practice these things. 640 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 4: And I think that's where the challenge is. But that's 641 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 4: honestly where the growth is to do it imperfectly and 642 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 4: to realize that's probably how it's always going to be 643 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 4: like in some ways right for us, not perfect conditions, 644 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 4: but if we can learn to do it in imperfect conditions, 645 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 4: then we can do in any condition. 646 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 2: So how greats are? 647 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting, Like you talk, we talk about 648 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: resilience a bit, and Paul Taylor, who's a regular on 649 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: this show, wrote a book called I Think It's the 650 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: Hardiness Effect. You know, it's all in the virtually in 651 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: the same space. They're related, and you know, the bottom 652 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 1: line is doing doing life in the middle of uncertainty 653 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: and all of the things that I talk about, and 654 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: the mess and the pain. But you can't get good 655 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: at what you're not doing right, So you can read, 656 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: you can read all you want about resilience. You can read, like, 657 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: you can read a hundred books on the piano, but 658 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: you can't play the piano until you sit at the 659 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: fucking piano and start touching the keys, right. 660 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 2: You can't exactly. 661 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, you can read all the tennis books on how 662 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: to have a great fourhand backhand outside your opponent, but 663 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: but you've still got to get on the fucking tennis 664 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: court with a racket and an opponent. And it's the theory, 665 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: it's like, and that's what that's the beauty, And I 666 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: guess limitation of podcasts, the beauty is you and me, 667 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: good conversation, hopefully lots of ideas and thoughts and stories 668 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: and information that people can potentially do something with, operationalized activate, 669 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it. 670 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 3: But the limitation is for many that they'll never fucking 671 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 3: do anything with what they hear. And it's the same 672 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 3: self help in general, personal developing, general development in general, 673 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 3: behavioral psychology, like how many people know what to do 674 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 3: but don't do what they know And it. 675 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 4: Becomes information overload in this day and age too, right, 676 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 4: because we can listen to audiobooks and we can you know, 677 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 4: summarize information, We can read all this things so far, 678 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 4: and then where the implementation where the action? And I 679 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 4: think often it's because we are looking for this perfect 680 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 4: accent or this perfect plan, and it's then it's just 681 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 4: taking this, like what is the next step I can do? 682 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 4: Like what can I this imperfect next step from what 683 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 4: I've just learned to be able to Because ultimately, like 684 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 4: you said, that's that's kind of where the change is 685 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 4: since the action, it's not what we know at all. 686 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So it's good talking to you, Doc. Thank 687 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: you for getting up at stupid o' clock over there 688 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: on the other side of the country. You're going away 689 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: on a holiday. We won't say are we allowed to 690 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: stay where? But next week you're going away. 691 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 2: For a Yes, I am. I'm going away next week, 692 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 2: so that'd be great. 693 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: Well, you enjoy that, you enjoy your trip, and I'll 694 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: say goodbye. We'll say goodbye af fair. But oh, before 695 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: you go, how can people find you and connect with 696 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: you and other educators and other people in the space 697 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: that you're in. How can they see what you do 698 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: and maybe connect with some of your resources. 699 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 4: On www dot doctor Samcasey dot com or on Instagram 700 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 4: at doctor Samcasey. I share a lot of those. A 701 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 4: little therapeutic playtips as well on my page. 702 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: You're the best. 703 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 2: Thanks Doc, thank you.