1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,400 Adam Lang: Welcome to One on one by Fear and Greed. My 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,640 Adam Lang: name is Adam Lang. My guest today, I'm delighted to 3 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,600 Adam Lang: say is Ian Rodgers. He's a fascinating pioneer who's worked 4 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,000 Adam Lang: with some of the most famous brands on Earth. He 5 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,640 Adam Lang: built Beastieboys dot Com in the nineties, helped launch Beats 6 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:26,120 Adam Lang: Music and Apple Music, drove digital transformation at Luxury Giant LVMH, 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,400 Adam Lang: and today shapes the future of digital assets as chief 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,559 Adam Lang: experience Officer and a board member at Ledger. They are 9 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:37,200 Adam Lang: the world's largest maker of cryptocurrency hardware wallets now. Ian 10 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,760 Adam Lang: is a rare mix of creative and commercial, a technology fan, 11 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,800 Adam Lang: a fitness enthusiast, and a brand builder. In this conversation, 12 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,400 Adam Lang: I want to explore how he and followed his passions 13 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,559 Adam Lang: built iconic brands and what can we learn from his 14 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,560 Adam Lang: journey so far because it has been fascinating. Ian, Welcome 15 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:55,920 Adam Lang: to Fear and Greed one on one. 16 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:57,840 Ian Rogers: Thank you, Thank you so much for having me. Great 17 00:00:57,880 --> 00:00:58,240 Ian Rogers: to be here. 18 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:00,760 Adam Lang: Ian. I am a big fan of the Beastie Boys, 19 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,440 Adam Lang: so I've taken a few lyrical liberties and giving titles 20 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,640 Adam Lang: to each one of these questions. The first one. So 21 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:10,640 Adam Lang: what you want your life seems powered by curiosity, whether 22 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,640 Adam Lang: it is art, books, music, fitness, or technology. Where did 23 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,160 Adam Lang: your passion start and how do you use them in 24 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,600 Adam Lang: the way you approach business and building brands? 25 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,240 Ian Rogers: You know, I think that's the curiosity point, is true, 26 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:24,720 Ian Rogers: But it's one of those things that you don't realize 27 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,000 Ian Rogers: until later in life, right, because the way the way 28 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,360 Ian Rogers: you are, you feel like, well, everyone must be like that, right, 29 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,160 Ian Rogers: And then you kind of get to a certain point 30 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,080 Ian Rogers: and you realize, Okay, I am a bit of a 31 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:38,119 Ian Rogers: weirdo and and kind of I'm an obsessive about about 32 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:42,679 Ian Rogers: unusual things. Look, I always just think that that I'm 33 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:44,880 Ian Rogers: very lucky and that the way that I'm crazy is 34 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,720 Ian Rogers: actually you know, useful and valuable to some people, because 35 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,880 Ian Rogers: I've always just been kind of an obsessive person, starting 36 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,040 Ian Rogers: with you know, music, when I was five years old. 37 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,360 Ian Rogers: I was lucky enough to have a brother who who 38 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,240 Ian Rogers: handed down his kiss records and my journey kind of 39 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,880 Ian Rogers: started there. Also lucky enough to have a stepfather who 40 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,480 Ian Rogers: was you know, into computers very early, so we had 41 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,480 Ian Rogers: Apple two computers in the house in the in the 42 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,320 Ian Rogers: eighties and the early eighties and I was programming and 43 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,200 Ian Rogers: playing games on those and then I think, you know, 44 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,520 Ian Rogers: the I think maybe the real question that I'm not 45 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,360 Ian Rogers: sure the answer to is, you know, why have I 46 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,920 Ian Rogers: always kind of wanted to be to be living a 47 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,960 Ian Rogers: couple of years ahead. I was also fortunate to attend 48 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,440 Ian Rogers: Indiana University in the early nineties and do a computer 49 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,160 Ian Rogers: science degree there, and we had high speed internet in 50 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,960 Ian Rogers: the you know, in the student housing and the early 51 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,519 Ian Rogers: in the early nineties. I almost feel like there could 52 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,320 Ian Rogers: be a documentary about why that is and the impact 53 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,520 Ian Rogers: that it had on so many of us, because what 54 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:48,920 Ian Rogers: I learned in that moment is that living in the 55 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,800 Ian Rogers: future is cheating. If you're living in the future, you 56 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,160 Ian Rogers: can see the future. You don't have to try very hard. 57 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,000 Ian Rogers: I think, you know, some people actually predict the future, 58 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,679 Ian Rogers: but if you're actually just kind of living the way 59 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,520 Ian Rogers: people might live two or three years from now, then 60 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,520 Ian Rogers: you start to actually, you know, not only do you 61 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:07,600 Ian Rogers: learn what the future looks like, but you also learn 62 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,720 Ian Rogers: what it isn't you know. And I've so I'm always 63 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,520 Ian Rogers: trying to do things a couple of years in advance 64 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,079 Ian Rogers: of when they you know, of when they hit the 65 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,440 Ian Rogers: you know, the public zeitgeist, you know, when ten years 66 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:25,080 Ian Rogers: ago and everyone says, oh, you know, uh, speech is 67 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,320 Ian Rogers: the future, you know, your voice, voice is the future, 68 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,160 Ian Rogers: and and I was like, well, have have you used Syria? 69 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,840 Ian Rogers: It doesn't work very well, It's not you know, and 70 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,680 Ian Rogers: I've was using Alexa at the time, and it was 71 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:38,960 Ian Rogers: sort of pretty clumsy either. You could tell you the 72 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,480 Ian Rogers: weather and maybe said a kitchen timer, but it wasn't 73 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:43,800 Ian Rogers: really going to you know, to change your life, you know, 74 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,280 Ian Rogers: much beyond that. And I think you to me, you 75 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,200 Ian Rogers: always want to do that I've done. I've done the 76 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,480 Ian Rogers: same thing with with digital assets and digital ownership and 77 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,960 Ian Rogers: digital art, and you know, today I'm doing it just 78 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:56,880 Ian Rogers: with AI coding. You know, I'm working on a on 79 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,880 Ian Rogers: a on a coding project using AI right now and 80 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,720 Ian Rogers: it's incredible. Like what it does that I couldn't do 81 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,600 Ian Rogers: as a computer science student is incredible. It's also often 82 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,200 Ian Rogers: frustrating and knowing where those boundaries are, you know, knowing 83 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,520 Ian Rogers: like what is amazing about it and also what is 84 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:15,920 Ian Rogers: you know, what are the challenges that are still to 85 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:21,320 Ian Rogers: be solved? I find to be very helpful and give 86 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,359 Ian Rogers: directive now as to why I have the curiosity to 87 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,440 Ian Rogers: do those things. I couldn't explain that. 88 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,560 Adam Lang: So the future is a competitive advantage. 89 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:30,000 Ian Rogers: I like that. 90 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,440 Adam Lang: This next one is calling Paul Revere. You had an 91 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,400 Adam Lang: early start with beastieboys dot Com in the nineteen nineties. 92 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,359 Adam Lang: That was not just a banded website. To me, it 93 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,080 Adam Lang: looked like an experiment in how the music industry model 94 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,920 Adam Lang: was changing and bands could use technology to connect directly 95 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,600 Adam Lang: with fans. What did you test and learn about the 96 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,440 Adam Lang: power of bands, brands and connection. 97 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:55,880 Ian Rogers: Yeah, and I think that to their credit, the Beastie 98 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,719 Ian Rogers: Boys very quickly understood what it was as well, and 99 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:01,960 Ian Rogers: that it was a way that they could communicate directly 100 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:06,720 Ian Rogers: with their fans without needing the gatekeepers of either radio 101 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,920 Ian Rogers: or MTV to kind of bless them before they could communicate, 102 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,880 Ian Rogers: or even record companies or even record companies. Yes, we 103 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,560 Ian Rogers: tested so many things. We did really a lot of firsts. 104 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,160 Ian Rogers: I wish we could say I wish I could say 105 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,039 Ian Rogers: that we had, you know, kind of a vision as 106 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,880 Ian Rogers: to how it applied to the music business broadly. I 107 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,919 Ian Rogers: think we were. We definitely look the Beastie Boys and 108 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:36,440 Ian Rogers: I both love punk rock and love you know, DIY culture, 109 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,000 Ian Rogers: So no question We really loved that you could just 110 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,680 Ian Rogers: do it yourself and you could write something down and 111 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,040 Ian Rogers: then anyone in the world can see it. I always 112 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,520 Ian Rogers: say that the Internet made sense immediately to anyone who 113 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,080 Ian Rogers: had ever made a fanzine with a piece of paper 114 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,080 Ian Rogers: and a magic marker and a photocopier, right, because when 115 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,200 Ian Rogers: you do that, you know how hard it is to 116 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,280 Ian Rogers: get what you make out to other people. And then 117 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,640 Ian Rogers: when you have this medium where you can just type 118 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,400 Ian Rogers: on a keyboard, upload a file and then absolutely anyone 119 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,839 Ian Rogers: on the planet, uh could you know, could see what 120 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,440 Ian Rogers: you've created? You feel the power of that. So then 121 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,400 Ian Rogers: the question is, you know, well, what can you do that? 122 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,200 Ian Rogers: How do you build those connections? And we used all 123 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,080 Ian Rogers: kinds of technologies, from Usenet in the early days to 124 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,839 Ian Rogers: you know, the World Wide Web and and then email lists. 125 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,919 Ian Rogers: These are you know, kind of early distribution lists, you know, 126 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,480 Ian Rogers: ultimately to you know, building the first radio station that 127 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,080 Ian Rogers: was that was run by a record label. You know, 128 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,520 Ian Rogers: we were we were doing things while the band was 129 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:40,760 Ian Rogers: on the road where you know, we would use the 130 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,679 Ian Rogers: Internet to communicate with fans and then we would gather 131 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,240 Ian Rogers: them at the show, you know, a just to to 132 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,440 Ian Rogers: to meet them and feel like we had a community, 133 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,200 Ian Rogers: but also to to further other things that the band 134 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,080 Ian Rogers: were interested in. They had a not for profit called 135 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,880 Ian Rogers: Milarepa that produced the Tibet and Freedom concerts in the nineties, 136 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,160 Ian Rogers: and they wanted to mobilize people around that. We gave 137 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:07,279 Ian Rogers: a dollar from every ticket to charity, you know, and 138 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,760 Ian Rogers: we would mobilize those local charities on the tour. In 139 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,160 Ian Rogers: nineteen ninety eight, also, the band had had a record 140 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,280 Ian Rogers: label called Grand Royal, and we would we would try 141 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,840 Ian Rogers: to use that direct connectivity to spill over some of 142 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,520 Ian Rogers: the success that the Beastie Boys had into the other 143 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:23,880 Ian Rogers: bands on the label, like Australian Ben Lee shout out 144 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,040 Ian Rogers: to ben Ley, yeah, you know, and so we would 145 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,200 Ian Rogers: Those are the kinds of things that we were doing. 146 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,080 Ian Rogers: So I think the answer is we were always just 147 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,400 Ian Rogers: trying to figure out, you know, anything we could and 148 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,760 Ian Rogers: where could this go. And really that was a great 149 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,800 Ian Rogers: laboratory because then if you look at the things that 150 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,440 Ian Rogers: I did in the late aughts two thousand and eight 151 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,320 Ian Rogers: to twenty thirteen, we had a company called Topspin that 152 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,960 Ian Rogers: was all about direct to consumer marketing and commerce, where 153 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:50,880 Ian Rogers: we work not only with the Beastie Boys, but also 154 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:55,440 Ian Rogers: David Byrne and Brian Eno and Trent Reznor and Lincoln 155 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,040 Ian Rogers: Park and lots of lots of great artists who had 156 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:06,160 Ian Rogers: really vibrant direct fan and you know, band connections. 157 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,880 Adam Lang: So this next one check it out. Your career path, 158 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,720 Adam Lang: as you mentioned top Spin, your career path has taken 159 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:17,680 Adam Lang: you across very different industries Yahoo, top Spin, Beats, Apple, LVMH, 160 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,880 Adam Lang: Doctor Martin's Boots. What do you think was the thread 161 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,200 Adam Lang: that pulled you towards working with each of those brands 162 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,480 Adam Lang: and then decide at some point it was time to 163 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,920 Adam Lang: leave one world and jump into the next one. 164 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,240 Ian Rogers: Yeah, it's not obvious, but I do think there is 165 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,760 Ian Rogers: a common thread. And for me, what I think I've 166 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,439 Ian Rogers: always been is a student of how technology is changing culture. 167 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,680 Ian Rogers: I realized that sort of late in my career because 168 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,120 Ian Rogers: I'd always been on this digital music journey. You know, 169 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:49,000 Ian Rogers: if I started in university in the early nineties at 170 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,839 Ian Rogers: the Indiana University Music Library, and what we were doing 171 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:57,520 Ian Rogers: was digitizing music, and really you could say that the 172 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,160 Ian Rogers: path was some version of that all the way up 173 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,160 Ian Rogers: until we launched Apple Music. So for I was super 174 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,000 Ian Rogers: lucky that for twenty years. I kind of had this 175 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,240 Ian Rogers: this mission of digitizing this art that I love, and 176 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,559 Ian Rogers: I was able to achieve that, and I'm really proud 177 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,640 Ian Rogers: of it. But it also felt, you know, like a 178 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,160 Ian Rogers: finish line once we got to Apple Music, because we's like, okay, 179 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,400 Ian Rogers: we've this has now been done, and I realize now 180 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,240 Ian Rogers: that we collectively have lived through this once in humanity, 181 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,199 Ian Rogers: digitization of all value. You know, if you go back 182 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,560 Ian Rogers: to you know, our lives when when we were young 183 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,440 Ian Rogers: and watching three channels on television, you know, there was 184 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,480 Ian Rogers: zero percent of the world's information had been digitized but 185 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,160 Ian Rogers: printing press, you know, and when and and that was 186 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,280 Ian Rogers: you know, kind of the you know, the book of 187 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,000 Ian Rogers: Iszation of all of all information, right, you know, I mean, 188 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:51,120 Ian Rogers: and we've lived through the digitization of all information. So 189 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:57,880 Ian Rogers: for me, going from from Apple Music to lvmhe was 190 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:02,839 Ian Rogers: sort of more of the same but broadening. So it 191 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,880 Ian Rogers: was in other words, I had learned a lot about 192 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:10,120 Ian Rogers: how technology changed the culture of music, and I really 193 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,679 Ian Rogers: was an expert in that, and I felt a pretty 194 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,920 Ian Rogers: good command of how those physics work, you know, and 195 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,600 Ian Rogers: that's I think more complicated than most people think. I mean, 196 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,760 Ian Rogers: only because you know, the music business was in free 197 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,800 Ian Rogers: fall for fourteen years, kind of denying those physics. You know, 198 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,480 Ian Rogers: I was saying, you know, the world was telling them, 199 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,920 Ian Rogers: you know, this music is going to get digitized and 200 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,360 Ian Rogers: consumed in this way, and the music business said, no, 201 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,199 Ian Rogers: We're going to sell compact discs forever. And it took 202 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,600 Ian Rogers: them a very long time to you know, to kind 203 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,720 Ian Rogers: of search train tracks and move in another direction. So 204 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,600 Ian Rogers: then my question when I went to LVMH was does 205 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,520 Ian Rogers: this apply to culture more broadly? And can I get 206 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,080 Ian Rogers: my arms around that? Maybe I can't. I thought, maybe 207 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,920 Ian Rogers: I can't, Maybe my maybe my theories don't apply. Maybe 208 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,320 Ian Rogers: I just am not capable of caring in the same 209 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,160 Ian Rogers: way that I do about music. But I really did 210 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:07,600 Ian Rogers: learn that that thought of how does technology shape culture? A? 211 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,559 Ian Rogers: Applies broadly and B is broadly interesting, and so watching 212 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,160 Ian Rogers: it in that and also LVMH and Luxury, and I 213 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,800 Ian Rogers: would even include other brands, you know, like Satisfy Running 214 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,959 Ian Rogers: and Mischief based in New York MSCCHF like these are 215 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:30,839 Ian Rogers: also really interesting studies of building culture in an era 216 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:35,880 Ian Rogers: of new technology. Like neither Mischief nor Satisfy our technology companies, 217 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,160 Ian Rogers: but they are brands which are being built and growing today, 218 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,360 Ian Rogers: which absolutely could not exist and build and grow without 219 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,280 Ian Rogers: the Internet. And that's that's truly fascinating. But now then, 220 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,640 Ian Rogers: what I realized is that now that we have lived 221 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:55,160 Ian Rogers: through the digitization of all information, we are now living 222 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,440 Ian Rogers: through and we're at the very beginning of the digitization 223 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,960 Ian Rogers: of all value, right, and that that is what is 224 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:06,160 Ian Rogers: represented by you know, blockchains and cryptocurrencies. People get all 225 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,040 Ian Rogers: wrapped around the axle on you know, a whole bunch 226 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:14,880 Ian Rogers: of other other issues, but that's fundamental and undeniable. And 227 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,440 Ian Rogers: you know, I personally, I always like to be in 228 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,840 Ian Rogers: a growing industry, and you know, we have you know, 229 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:27,040 Ian Rogers: if Ledger is fundamentally for people who care about digital value, 230 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,960 Ian Rogers: people who are serious about digital value, the number of 231 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,920 Ian Rogers: people who are serious about digital value will go up 232 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,640 Ian Rogers: every year for the rest of my life. And that's 233 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:37,040 Ian Rogers: a very interesting place to be. 234 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:39,720 Adam Lang: Ian, stay with me. We'll be back in a moment. 235 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,120 Adam Lang: I'm speaking with Ian Rodgers, chief experience Officer and board 236 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,120 Adam Lang: member at Ledger. Let's talk about body moving. Now. You've 237 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,640 Adam Lang: mentioned some of the brands that have become important to you. 238 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,400 Adam Lang: You've said that you do not have time to not 239 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,960 Adam Lang: run that running clears your head and fuels your ideas. 240 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:07,280 Adam Lang: Can you talk about your fitness and movement, your body 241 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,400 Adam Lang: moving that has helped you, not just personally, but help 242 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:10,319 Adam Lang: sharpen your work. 243 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,600 Ian Rogers: Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, look, I grew up skateboarding, 244 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,320 Ian Rogers: so and that was kind of that was kind of 245 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,160 Ian Rogers: it for me for a long time. And then, you know, 246 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,400 Ian Rogers: eighteen nineteen years ago, I had a second child and 247 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,760 Ian Rogers: realized I wasn't going to be skating as much as 248 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,960 Ian Rogers: I was before I was, you know, I was, you know, 249 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:32,960 Ian Rogers: I was really skating a lot when in my in 250 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,120 Ian Rogers: my mid thirties is this period where skate parks were 251 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,120 Ian Rogers: all over California and it was just a great time 252 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,120 Ian Rogers: to be exactly who I was, living where I was 253 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,240 Ian Rogers: at that age. So I started running, and I just 254 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,800 Ian Rogers: I just fell in love with it, kind of accidentally, 255 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:48,520 Ian Rogers: to be honest. I mean, I started running because I 256 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:50,360 Ian Rogers: didn't know what else to do. And it took me 257 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,120 Ian Rogers: maybe a year to fall in love with it, but 258 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,839 Ian Rogers: but really did. And then but then I started trying 259 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,280 Ian Rogers: other things, you know, and I did cross it for 260 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,640 Ian Rogers: a number of years. I've recently started tai chi, which 261 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,360 Ian Rogers: is something I've always wanted to do after seeing Iggy 262 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,640 Ian Rogers: Pop do it when he when the Stooges came and 263 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,960 Ian Rogers: played at Yahoo. That's a that's another story, but it's 264 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,440 Ian Rogers: true that Iggy Pop made tai chi cool for me, 265 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:21,120 Ian Rogers: and so it just, you know, I think it's for me. 266 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,840 Ian Rogers: What's been fascinating is I really have learned a lot 267 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:26,600 Ian Rogers: from running because I think it's it is a bit 268 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,360 Ian Rogers: of a laboratory, and I think that there's actually less 269 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,720 Ian Rogers: difference between body and brain than we think. I think 270 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:38,560 Ian Rogers: in all cases, humans are just adaptive creatures. You know, 271 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,560 Ian Rogers: when you go to sleep at night, your body says, okay, 272 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,320 Ian Rogers: if he does that to me again tomorrow, am I ready? 273 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,320 Ian Rogers: And that might be if you're doing math problems all day, 274 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,640 Ian Rogers: if you're reading books all day, if you're running, you know, 275 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,760 Ian Rogers: you are what you do, so you have to do 276 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:56,920 Ian Rogers: what you want to be. That's the thing I wish 277 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,120 Ian Rogers: I would have, you know, learned when I was younger. 278 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,560 Ian Rogers: So whenever I have the opportunity to speak to a 279 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,600 Ian Rogers: room full of you know, teenagers, I always remind them 280 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:06,840 Ian Rogers: of that fact. And then I say, if you want 281 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,520 Ian Rogers: to be really good at watching Netflix, then you should 282 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,840 Ian Rogers: watch a lot of Netflix. If there's something else you'd 283 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,000 Ian Rogers: like to be good at, then you should do a 284 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,760 Ian Rogers: lot of it. If you'd like to be great at 285 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,200 Ian Rogers: playing guitar, you should play guitar often. If I'd like 286 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,720 Ian Rogers: to speak, you know, better French or better Italian, I 287 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,400 Ian Rogers: should speak more French or more Italian. It really is 288 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,320 Ian Rogers: that simple. So I think the way that we spend 289 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,200 Ian Rogers: our time and what we invest our time in, you know, 290 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,920 Ian Rogers: very directly impacts who we are, which is why I 291 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,040 Ian Rogers: haven't had a television since nineteen eighty nine. 292 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,120 Adam Lang: Brilliant, let's go into galactic. You've been shouldered to shoulder 293 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,760 Adam Lang: with some of the most iconic leaders in business and culture, 294 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,200 Adam Lang: doctor Dre Jimmy Iovine, Steve Jobs. But I don't know, 295 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,840 Adam Lang: was there a leadership habit that you saw up close 296 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:53,840 Adam Lang: that you've carried with you ever since? 297 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,800 Ian Rogers: There are many In my career, I've been very fortunate, 298 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,560 Ian Rogers: and I've had a lot of great mentors, starting with 299 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,080 Ian Rogers: doctor David Fenski back at Indiana University, but also the 300 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,640 Ian Rogers: Beastie Boys and John Silva, their manager, has certainly been 301 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,000 Ian Rogers: a mentor. You know, my good friend Rob Lord, who 302 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,560 Ian Rogers: we we I worked with on Nolsoft really taught me 303 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,200 Ian Rogers: how to think. I think Dave Goldberg, who was Sheryl 304 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:21,320 Ian Rogers: Sandberg's husband Yahoo, was my steward there. Peter Gocher who 305 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,200 Ian Rogers: started invented pro tools and and digit created digit design 306 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,920 Ian Rogers: at Topsmen. You mentioned Jimmy and Dre and and and 307 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,560 Ian Rogers: also certainly been out on know and really the the 308 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,480 Ian Rogers: the Arno family, you know, the there's a if you've 309 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,240 Ian Rogers: ever read the book Thinking Fast and Thinking Slow, the 310 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:44,280 Ian Rogers: the Daniel Knneman one of the best, you know, thinkers 311 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,440 Ian Rogers: on the brain, study studiers of the brain. You know, 312 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:51,320 Ian Rogers: if you ask him what's his advice for humans? Uh, 313 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:56,400 Ian Rogers: he would he would he would say delay intuition. And 314 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,440 Ian Rogers: I really saw that with Benn. Know, there were more 315 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,120 Ian Rogers: than once where you know, we would have a big 316 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,760 Ian Rogers: debate about something very serious and impactful to the business 317 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,399 Ian Rogers: and I thought we'd been through it, we'd you know, 318 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,120 Ian Rogers: really argued it out, debated it out, and now it's 319 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,240 Ian Rogers: time to move on and act. And he would say, Okay, 320 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,600 Ian Rogers: let's talk about this tomorrow. And at first I found 321 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,600 Ian Rogers: it really frustrating. I would say, what are you talking about? 322 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:29,960 Ian Rogers: We just made a decision, what are we And but 323 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,520 Ian Rogers: I realized that it is exactly that Daniel Conneman thing. 324 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,560 Ian Rogers: We will be smarter tomorrow morning. And so if you 325 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:42,919 Ian Rogers: can get between stimulus and response and then you know 326 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:48,880 Ian Rogers: you you can you can find wisdom. And I think 327 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,440 Ian Rogers: that that that's one of the biggest things I've learned. 328 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,040 Ian Rogers: I think that you know, great leaders, great leaders have 329 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:58,720 Ian Rogers: that they have the ability to uh disconnect their reaction 330 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,479 Ian Rogers: from the from the input. 331 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,679 Adam Lang: So intergenerational, let's go to pass the mic. You have 332 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,920 Adam Lang: credited hip hop with helping to shape how you see 333 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,440 Adam Lang: the world. How did those early lessons about authenticity, identity, 334 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,440 Adam Lang: and the search for real continue to guide the way 335 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,960 Adam Lang: that you've built brands across very different industries. 336 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,760 Ian Rogers: Yeah. I look at the photographer Glenny Friedman. If you 337 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,040 Ian Rogers: look at Glenn's books, he has a great book on 338 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,640 Ian Rogers: Rizzali called My Rules. I highly recommend because you look 339 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,520 Ian Rogers: at it and you go, wait, this is the kind 340 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,639 Ian Rogers: of the golden era of skateboarding, the golden era of 341 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,400 Ian Rogers: hip hop, the golden hair of punk rock. You know, 342 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,159 Ian Rogers: you don't necessarily lump all three of those things together, 343 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,439 Ian Rogers: but you know, resonates for me, those are those are 344 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,640 Ian Rogers: three things that I three cultures that I cared about 345 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,160 Ian Rogers: a lot, and turns out there's a fair amount of us, 346 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:52,200 Ian Rogers: and they do they do all represent something similar, which 347 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,600 Ian Rogers: is you know that your icons are not necessarily you know, 348 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,920 Ian Rogers: on a pedestal on a stage in an Olympic state. 349 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,159 Ian Rogers: You know, it's it may actually just be you. You know, 350 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:08,439 Ian Rogers: you and your friends can get together and you know, 351 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:12,600 Ian Rogers: and create something. I think that that, honestly is the 352 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,879 Ian Rogers: you know, is the common thread is is you know 353 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:20,600 Ian Rogers: that that kind of accessibility of culture, you know, as 354 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,359 Ian Rogers: as as Rick Rubin said, you know, it took it 355 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,080 Ian Rogers: off the stage and into the street again, and I 356 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,600 Ian Rogers: think there there is something very real about that. I 357 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,240 Ian Rogers: think also you see it in all kinds of places. 358 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,600 Ian Rogers: You know. It's it's these are the cultures that big 359 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,840 Ian Rogers: brands end up leaning on to try to be cool, 360 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,520 Ian Rogers: you know. I mean it's a your your credit card 361 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,480 Ian Rogers: company is suddenly featuring a DJ and a skateboarder, right, 362 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,240 Ian Rogers: you know, it's and it's not there's not something inherent 363 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,080 Ian Rogers: about four wheels and a plank of wood. It's it's 364 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,520 Ian Rogers: actually about you know, people who are taking their surroundings 365 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,639 Ian Rogers: and you know, not asking permission and shaping their surroundings, 366 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,200 Ian Rogers: uh for the way for their worldview. So I think, 367 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:04,879 Ian Rogers: I think this is where these things come from, and 368 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,479 Ian Rogers: I think it shows up in all kinds of places. 369 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,600 Ian Rogers: I mean, I've over the past four years, I've loved 370 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,560 Ian Rogers: the world of digital art and it feels very similar 371 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,639 Ian Rogers: to me, you know, I'm I feel very fortunate that 372 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,359 Ian Rogers: just like in in in punk rock, if if I 373 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:20,800 Ian Rogers: you know, if you go to I remember when I 374 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,480 Ian Rogers: went to my first punk rock show in Chicago. You know, 375 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,200 Ian Rogers: I looked to my right and you know, an artist 376 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,479 Ian Rogers: that I'd been listening to in my bedroom is standing 377 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,639 Ian Rogers: next to me. You know, you wouldn't have that, you know, 378 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,480 Ian Rogers: in an arena. You know, if I if I go 379 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,440 Ian Rogers: see you know, a gigantic band in an arena, they're 380 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,280 Ian Rogers: they're backstage, askanced, you know, and and you and and 381 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,000 Ian Rogers: you won't you won't see them. But but I'm you know, 382 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:45,560 Ian Rogers: in this world of digital art, I love being in 383 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,400 Ian Rogers: these things that are emerging and they're unknown and they're 384 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,120 Ian Rogers: not yet defined. You know. The early days of hip 385 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,920 Ian Rogers: hop were incredible because you couldn't say that's not hip hop. 386 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,000 Ian Rogers: You had people who were old, people who are young, 387 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,760 Ian Rogers: people who were talking about gun, people who were talking 388 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,240 Ian Rogers: about love, people who you know it wasn't There were 389 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,919 Ian Rogers: no rules yet, there was no box for it to 390 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,560 Ian Rogers: be in yet. Those those are when any cultural movement 391 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,040 Ian Rogers: is fun. You know, as soon as it's become an industry, 392 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,480 Ian Rogers: time to find a new cultural movement, you know, skateboarding 393 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,439 Ian Rogers: and the Olympics. Time to find the new sport. 394 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,280 Adam Lang: That was Ian Rodgers, chief experience officer and board member 395 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,880 Adam Lang: at the computer and network security company Ledger, the world's 396 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,920 Adam Lang: largest maker of cryptocurrency hardware wallets. It's a rare treat 397 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,000 Adam Lang: to get such an international expert on the show. We'll 398 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,800 Adam Lang: leave this interview here and bring you part to next 399 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,880 Adam Lang: Wednesday as the next episode about Fear and Greed One 400 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,920 Adam Lang: on one series. I'm Adam Lang and this is one 401 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:44,040 Adam Lang: on one by Fear and Greed.