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Speaker 1: Welcome to Healthy Ish. Thanks for joining us on the

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Speaker 1: summer series. Yes, you have tuned into the Body and

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Speaker 1: Soul podcast with me your host Felicity Harley. To celebrate summer,

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Speaker 1: we're dropping our top Healthish episodes from the year now.

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Speaker 1: According to love Honey Groups twenty twenty four Sex Trends Report,

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Speaker 1: relationships sabbaticals are on the rise, So can taking a

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Speaker 1: break from your partner actually benefit you and the relationship.

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Speaker 1: Joining us in the studio back at the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the year was somatic sexologist Alice Charles to discuss all

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Speaker 1: the pros and cons. Now, make sure you listen in

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Speaker 1: to our sister podcast, Extra healthy Ish, where she talks

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Speaker 1: about out of course self pleasure and pushing past the

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Speaker 1: mental load for more masturbation. You can search for that

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Speaker 1: episode where we get your podcasts. This is an interesting

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Speaker 1: one rise of relationship sabbatical now. One of the big

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Speaker 1: trends out of love Honey's twenty twenty four or six

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Speaker 1: trends report was this whole idea of a relationship sabbatical

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Speaker 1: is it exactly so?

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Speaker 2: The idea is that within a relationship, we all have

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Speaker 2: not only our relationship with our partner, but also our

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Speaker 2: relationship with ourselves, and the idea of a relationship sabbatical

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Speaker 2: is actually first called a marriage sabbatical is about taking

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Speaker 2: time away from the relationship in order to focus on

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Speaker 2: your own desires, your own dreams, your own goals, and

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Speaker 2: have some time to yourself for self reflection and work.

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Speaker 1: I mean, in many ways it sounds very appealing because

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Speaker 1: often in a relationship we can forget about ourselves, and

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Speaker 1: especially if we've got demands of kids and work, and

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Speaker 1: so is it I mean, is it about finding someone

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Speaker 1: new or is it totally focused on Because when I

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Speaker 1: first heard this time, I thought, oh, well, is that

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Speaker 1: about seeing if there's someone else out there that might

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Speaker 1: be more suited.

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Speaker 2: No, it's not supposed to be a trial separation or

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Speaker 2: a time to go and find a new partner. Supposed

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Speaker 2: to be about self reflection and self time and sort

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Speaker 2: of countering that myth that when you know a good

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Speaker 2: relationship is happening, it's about two becoming one and really

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Speaker 2: actually a healthy relationship needs both people to really prioritize themselves.

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Speaker 2: I'm on the fence about this as a concept, interestingly,

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Speaker 2: because I think it requires such incredible communication and really

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Speaker 2: clear boundaries around what are the expectations of the sabbatical?

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Speaker 2: You know, what are we working on? Why are we

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Speaker 2: doing it? You know, how are we're communicating while we're

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Speaker 2: while we're apart? Are we living together? What does this

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Speaker 2: mean for the kids? All of these sorts of questions

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Speaker 2: that require really clear and open, respectful communication. And I

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Speaker 2: think a lot of people would see the appeal of

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Speaker 2: a relationship sabbatical without being able to have the important

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Speaker 2: conversations necessary to do it in a respectful way and

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Speaker 2: a healthy way for them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so pros are great for finding yourself, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you feel like you have lost yourself in a relationship.

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Speaker 1: Are there any what else are they?

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Speaker 2: Well? In the book the marriage Sabbatical, whether the term

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Speaker 2: was first coined, it's really about this idea that a

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Speaker 2: healthy relationship we support our partner to fulfill their goals

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Speaker 2: and dreams. So, for example, one person's life goal and

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Speaker 2: dream was to go hiking in Nepal. It's about okay,

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Speaker 2: how you know, as a team, as a relationship, can

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Speaker 2: we make sure you have the time and the space

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Speaker 2: to go and fulfill that want to do that? Yeah? Exactly,

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Speaker 2: And there are all sorts of individual goals and dreams

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Speaker 2: that people might have that feel selfish or that don't

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Speaker 2: adhere to the team or the marriage. And so the

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Speaker 2: idea is we should be helping our partners prioritize these

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Speaker 2: really important life dreams. Hence the marriage sabbatical. So you

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Speaker 2: can see why in that sort of frame, it's a

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Speaker 2: really healthy thing, not just for you know, the individual,

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Speaker 2: but you know, for the health and happiness of the

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Speaker 2: life together.

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Speaker 1: And so I suppose, sorry, just need to run. And

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Speaker 1: I was just thinking about you. You're going, let's take

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Speaker 1: that Nepal trick, because it's a great example. You go away,

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Speaker 1: you take a sabbatical for a month, two months, you

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Speaker 1: go to Nepal, I mean, and then you come back

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Speaker 1: and the relationship can be so much more in riching

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Speaker 1: because you've had this amazing life experience so completely.

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Speaker 2: And we need that. You know, there's a reason why

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Speaker 2: people say things like distance makes the heart groat fonder,

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Speaker 2: but we need that separateness, I suppose for connection to happen.

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Speaker 2: You know, this is what Esther Perrell, the Amazing sex therapist,

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Speaker 2: talks a lot about in her book Meeting and Captivity

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Speaker 2: is connection doesn't happen when we are, you know, so codependent.

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Speaker 2: We actually need to have that separateness in order for

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Speaker 2: great chemistry and connection to happen. So you can definitely

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Speaker 2: see the potential pros. Yeah, I think in terms of

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Speaker 2: potential is that a lot of people see the appeal

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Speaker 2: of these sorts of breaks when the relationship is already

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Speaker 2: really struggling and they're really craving that distance or escapism

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Speaker 2: from the relationship. And as I was saying before, that

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Speaker 2: miscommunication can can be really harmful. You think about the

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Speaker 2: you know, Ross and Rachel who are on a break

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Speaker 2: in friends, Yes, and that complete miscommunication of what that

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Speaker 2: even means.

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Speaker 1: That's a great example.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and that's the sort of thing which

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Speaker 2: I think couples need to be really wary of.

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Speaker 1: And also how to actually implement this. You're right, like,

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Speaker 1: if you've got kids, if you're kids at school, I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously it's never gonna happen when you've got young kids

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Speaker 1: and you're trying to you're in the trenches. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what how does it look like what you just pack

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Speaker 1: up or your husband just or partner just packs up

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Speaker 1: and off they go.

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Speaker 2: For a real privilege, you know, you have to be

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Speaker 2: able to afford to accommodation and sort of afford the hotel,

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Speaker 2: and you know, logistically is it? Is it possible? And

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Speaker 2: so you know when working with a couple, what I

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Speaker 2: would get curious about, would or what is the motivation

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Speaker 2: behind this desire? Like what needs do you feel aren't

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Speaker 2: being met within your current relationship? You know, where is

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Speaker 2: this desire for distance coming from? And actually can we

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Speaker 2: create you know, a relationship dynamic where those needs are

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Speaker 2: being met? What do we need to talk about? What

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Speaker 2: do we need to work on rather than right, it's

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Speaker 2: just time for three months apart? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: What about if a listener is thinking, okay, I need

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Speaker 1: a bit of I need to find me again. And

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Speaker 1: I think, especially as women, that gets lost a lot

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Speaker 1: in our thirties and forties when we've got so many

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Speaker 1: other demands. How do we go about having this conversation

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Speaker 1: with our partner completely?

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Speaker 2: Well, first off, I would do a bit of self

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Speaker 2: reflection on what helps you feel like you? You know, before

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Speaker 2: you're working out what to ask from or what to

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Speaker 2: talk about with your partner, have a little thing yourself.

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Speaker 2: What does make me feel like myself? When do I

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Speaker 2: feel most confident, most half filled? Most myself or when

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Speaker 2: did I in the past, and what am I craving

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Speaker 2: more of? You know, is it time with friendships, time

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Speaker 2: on your own, time without the children? What is it

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Speaker 2: that you're craving more of? And then when you know

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Speaker 2: what you're needing or wanting, or you think you're needing

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Speaker 2: and wanting, you can then have that communication and that conversation.

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Speaker 1: So is there any have you come across any people

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Speaker 1: that have actually made a relationships aboutical work.

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Speaker 2: No. Interestingly, I've worked with quite a lot of couples

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Speaker 2: who have had time apart for one reason or another.

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Speaker 2: They just didn't call it a relationship sabbatical. It could

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Speaker 2: have been a trial separation and then they came back together,

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Speaker 2: and so retrospectively, I suppose it was a relationship article.

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Speaker 2: But they are different things. And people who have obviously

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Speaker 2: had time apart through being long distance, and that's often

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Speaker 2: a really great opportunity to renegotiate boundaries around Okay, well,

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Speaker 2: how are we going to communicate in this time? What

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Speaker 2: are our approaches to monogamy in this time? Are we

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Speaker 2: still going to stay monogamous during that year or two apart?

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Speaker 2: And so those periods of time in a relationship are

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Speaker 2: often scene as a I suppose sabbatical insider cast. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: if that.

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Speaker 1: Works, why do you think it's a trend? Then what

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Speaker 1: is this something more people are discovering questioning?

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Speaker 2: Ye wanting to It would have made a lot of

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Speaker 2: sense post COVID, because I think there was a lot

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Speaker 2: of focus in the media post COVID of COVID being

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Speaker 2: potentially good for some relationships. You know, all of these

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Speaker 2: couple suddenly having sex in the middle of the afternoon,

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Speaker 2: or all of these new couples suddenly needing to commit

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Speaker 2: and live together and make at work. But on the

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Speaker 2: other side of the fence, it was a hugely challenging

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Speaker 2: time for a lot of relationships in that close quartered space,

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Speaker 2: not to mention all of the additional stress that was

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Speaker 2: going on on people's mental health. You know, you can

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Speaker 2: sort of see the appeal coming out of something like that,

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Speaker 2: so need to work on yourself and some need for

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Speaker 2: some space. But yeah, in terms of twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 2: really interesting. I'd be curious. I've diving a bit bit more.

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Speaker 1: I wonder whether it's I mean, I think you're right.

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Speaker 1: I think last year when people were probably thinking about Okay,

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Speaker 1: what do I want in a relationship. We were feeling

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Speaker 1: like we were still feeling the effect of COVID in

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Speaker 1: many ways. I mean, we saw what we see in

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Speaker 1: mental health and all sorts of things. But maybe people

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Speaker 1: were yeah, thinking, Okay, yes I still need that break

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Speaker 1: from my partner who knows.

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Speaker 2: And there's definitely a focus on you know, self development,

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Speaker 2: self care, which is fantastic obviously, But again I would

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Speaker 2: get curious as to why people feel that they can't

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Speaker 2: do self development, self care time for themselves within a relationship,

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Speaker 2: you know, and if they're feeling they need to ask

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Speaker 2: their partners for permission for a night out with friends,

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Speaker 2: that to me is more worrying, you know. So again

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Speaker 2: that's what I'd get curious about. It is what isn't

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Speaker 2: being met? Why what's going on here? Is it a communication?

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Speaker 2: You know's what's happening within the dynamic that's causing this tension? Alice,

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Speaker 2: thank you for coming and help you of course, thank

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Speaker 2: you for having me.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, Allis and I were chatting after

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Speaker 1: I pressed stop on the recording, and that book did

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Speaker 1: come out in nineteen ninety nine, Marriage Sabbatical, So you

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Speaker 1: can see why the concept might have been relevant twenty

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Speaker 1: five odd years ago. Anyway, If you do want to

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Speaker 1: read more about relationships sabbaticals, I will leave a link

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Speaker 1: to the story on Body and Soul online. If you

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Speaker 1: did enjoy this chat, jump on rate and review it all.

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Speaker 1: You can subscribe to this podcast of course, or share

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Speaker 1: this set with a friend or perhaps your partner. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you're just exploring the idea, this might give you

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Speaker 1: some advice, perhaps anything else. At to bodyansoul dot com

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Speaker 1: dot you follow us on socials, grab our print edition

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Speaker 1: which is out in your local Sunday paper, and until tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: stay healthy ish