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Speaker 1: Yeah, approache production for the record. I'm done trying to

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Speaker 1: make y'all comfortable for the record. You ain't trying to

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Speaker 1: grow downy stuff for your for the record, laugh on

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Speaker 1: me going all the way for the record. Ain't trying

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Speaker 1: to link, No, trying to waste for the.

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Speaker 2: Record, for the record, for the for the record, for

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Speaker 2: the record, for the record, for the record, for the record.

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Speaker 1: I'm done trying to make y'all comfortable.

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Speaker 3: Right. I got kicked out of the panel of doctors

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Speaker 3: when when they find it as a junkie. So what happens,

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you the story. What happens is we're doing

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Speaker 3: your breaking it. No, that's seventy one. It was December

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventy one. Just four Christians were broken into into

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Speaker 3: a garage. We'd cut a hole through the wall and

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Speaker 3: we're getting into like a David Jones. You know, they

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Speaker 3: sold stereos and in those days, you know, you didn't

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Speaker 3: you didn't have DV diesel. You know, he had big stereos,

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Speaker 3: you know, and you had the reel, the reels in

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Speaker 3: big fucking tellies.

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Speaker 4: And then fucking heavy tellies. Mane they were.

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Speaker 3: Huge, and we had this big we had a van

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Speaker 3: parked in the service station and we'll cut passing everything

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Speaker 3: through the wall. And one of the blows went to

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Speaker 3: walk outside and just by, just by lack, a coppers

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Speaker 3: car drove past. Well, instead of him doing a runner,

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Speaker 3: he ran back in. Well, then the coppers have came

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Speaker 3: and there's got lights, someone's got a gun. The copper

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Speaker 3: starts shooting at asked, someone starts shooting at the coppers.

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Speaker 5: Were you guys armed up going to a break so

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Speaker 5: you were ready to go if she went south?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because I was always armed up.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's what Well that you said that before with

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Speaker 5: the whole stro and I just assumed, naturally you're going

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Speaker 5: to do an earn, you're going to be carrying.

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Speaker 3: I carried a gun for my whole life as a

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Speaker 3: young fellow. My whole life, I carried a gun. You know.

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Speaker 3: That was you didn't go out without a gun. So

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Speaker 3: what happens is we have the shootout of the coppers,

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Speaker 3: we get arrested. Of course, you know they've got the

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Speaker 3: big spotlights around us. The coppers were they're that man

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Speaker 3: that hyped up. They didn't have swat teams those days. Well,

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Speaker 3: you had was fucking psychopathic, fucking Melbourne police officer just

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Speaker 3: killed your Well.

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Speaker 4: Melbourne's known for that, isn't it. Just shoot you?

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Speaker 3: They're famous for it. Yeah, they're shooting out. One of

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Speaker 3: the guys I've shot in the face. Another one got

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Speaker 3: shot in the back of the shotgun. I got all

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Speaker 3: the overspray of the shotgun down the back and down

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Speaker 3: one arm. Well, I ran in and hit. I climbed

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Speaker 3: into the warehouse and climbed into a box, and he did.

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Speaker 3: And we'd stopped shooting, and I was still shooting something

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Speaker 3: like twenty minutes after we'd stopped, because they're all around

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Speaker 3: the joint shooting at each other. I'm still shooting twenty

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Speaker 3: minutes later. So we get pisched, we get back them

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Speaker 3: ploye station, and you imagine the serve you're going to

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Speaker 3: give a new pitcher having a shoot out with the police.

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Speaker 3: The bashing fucking phenomenal, I mean, out of control, like

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Speaker 3: it was torture. They just wanted to hurt you, and

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Speaker 3: they just wanted to really fucking heard your Well. Then

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Speaker 3: they came in to me and they go like, got

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Speaker 3: good news for you. You may just signed up on

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Speaker 3: two other attempted murders. Allegedly some other blokes had been

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Speaker 3: shot and were trying to stand over me old man

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Speaker 3: down at the two up game three months before that,

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Speaker 3: and they'd been shot with a shotgun and blah blah blah.

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Speaker 3: So next thing we pitched you shoot out with the police.

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Speaker 3: You are going to prevent lawful apprehension.

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Speaker 4: So had any of you Cowei's actually died in this shootout.

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Speaker 3: No mate got shot through the mouth and the bullet

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Speaker 3: came out.

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Speaker 4: That's why I asked, because you said that he was

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Speaker 4: shot on the face with.

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Speaker 3: The fucking mouth and he came out of side of

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Speaker 3: his jaw. The other one was shot in the back

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Speaker 3: of the shotgun. I got the aspray Lucky those days

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Speaker 3: they weren't using SGUs. I was using just number four

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Speaker 3: shot like bird shot. Yeah, technology was it is today.

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Speaker 3: We'd all be dead. Now, we'd all be dead now

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Speaker 3: they're using the weapons they are using. Now we'd all

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Speaker 3: be dead.

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Speaker 4: Your head would have just gone yeah.

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Speaker 3: And so I'm pitching four attempted murders us to find

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Speaker 3: an event lawful apprehension, illegal use for motor people for

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Speaker 3: the van that we've got parked there. They put me

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Speaker 3: straight in the in the in the after they've tortured,

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Speaker 3: they helped, They kept on moving us from police station

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Speaker 3: to police station so that their family couldn't find us.

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Speaker 3: Because those days, they.

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Speaker 4: Still do it now. I just went through it. Still

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Speaker 4: throw you around.

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Speaker 5: They give you a phone, and my family didn't need

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Speaker 5: for me for a month, and they got where the

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Speaker 5: fuck is he?

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Speaker 3: Exactly know, they just tortured us, and and they came

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Speaker 3: in and said to me, your mates just died. The

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Speaker 3: one thing I was shot in the face. He didn't,

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Speaker 3: but you know that was you may just died. You know,

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Speaker 3: fucking say he had the gun. You know, fucking you've

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Speaker 3: been off saying he had. You know, at least the

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Speaker 3: rest of his aren't going to get pinched for the

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Speaker 3: tempted murder and all their games that they play with you.

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Speaker 3: So anyway, I'll go out of the jail. I shit

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Speaker 3: out there and I'll get a think, which it's fucking horrific.

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Speaker 5: So we're talking about pen reading one of its most

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Speaker 5: violent errors. Yeah, it just absolute psychotic, mad mad mad men.

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Speaker 3: Everybody was killing each other.

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Speaker 5: And was this during the period two of the riots

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Speaker 5: around that time or did that come later?

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Speaker 3: It was gridly dry. Yeah, that's when Gridley. He was

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Speaker 3: the governor. He had a big screw called Sonny Curl,

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Speaker 3: a big german, and there was another screw called McClusky.

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Speaker 3: It was a scotchman. He picked me up. You know,

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Speaker 3: you're only a kid, but his armist looked fucking that big.

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Speaker 3: He grabbed me by the scuff of the neck and

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Speaker 3: lifted me off the ground and smashed me against the

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Speaker 3: one hand. Sure I was only fifty five kilos or

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Speaker 3: something like that, was only a kid sixty kilos maximum,

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Speaker 3: but just fucking threw me around the cell like a

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Speaker 3: rag doll and just smashed me all over the cell

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Speaker 3: and said if I've got to come back, and I'll

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Speaker 3: fucking kill you because I was yelling there giving chef

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Speaker 3: for the cell.

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Speaker 5: You know, I remember John Killick when he came on

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Speaker 5: some time ago. This was an era that he was

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Speaker 5: also there too, and the siege that he took on

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Speaker 5: at Pantridge. I mean the stories that he was telling me.

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Speaker 5: And you know, you was a young man seventeen years

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Speaker 5: of age. This is just not normal for a young

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Speaker 5: person to be witnessing this sort of environment, is it not.

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Speaker 3: And because when they passed a note, because it was

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Speaker 3: in the remand center of Pandridge, there was the Condemned Yard.

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Speaker 3: They started the condemned Yard those days, even though they

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Speaker 3: stopped hanging people. Ronnie Ryan was my father's best mate.

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Speaker 3: When Ronnie Ryan escaped, they came to your house stopping

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Speaker 3: for him.

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Speaker 4: This is the story.

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Speaker 5: Johnny was telling me about it because he was there

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Speaker 5: at the last hanging.

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Speaker 3: And I used to call Ronnie Ryan uncle Ronnie, because

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Speaker 3: you know, in those days you called your mate's old

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Speaker 3: man's uncle. You know that was a sign of respect.

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Speaker 3: You called anyone who was your mate, your father. See

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Speaker 3: my nickname's uncle.

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Speaker 4: Yep.

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Speaker 3: My all my mates called me uncle. You know my

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Speaker 3: kids are like that. That's how Michael kids called me uncle.

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Speaker 3: Ronnie Uncle. So here I am seventeen years of age,

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Speaker 3: completely horrified, dunken, pinched, beaten landing pantries. They stripped, stripped

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Speaker 3: your naked in front of all the blokes. They spray

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Speaker 3: with this fucking dig t t like something to kill

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Speaker 3: the fucking fleas and the ticks and ship off, you know,

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Speaker 3: like like you've got something. The shave your head bared

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Speaker 3: soun as you get there. You're not even you're not

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Speaker 3: even convicted. Shave your head bared, and then they throw

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Speaker 3: you in a cell in pantries. During the cell those

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Speaker 3: days from I think it was three o'clock in the

157
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Speaker 3: afternoon till seven o'clock the next morning, there's not one

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Speaker 3: thing in the cell. There's nothing in the cell. There's

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Speaker 3: no papers, there's no magazines.

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Speaker 5: Wasn't it just an old tin, an old fucking shit

161
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Speaker 5: up like a bucket?

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Speaker 3: Well, I wasn't, I didn't. I wasn't in that sex

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Speaker 3: hand the bucket that was aving BT Division Seed Division

164
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Speaker 3: in the remarks said they had torts by this stage,

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Speaker 3: but they had a tin basin and the bed made

166
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Speaker 3: out of steel straps and it was horse here that

167
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Speaker 3: used to stick India. And they had this you know,

168
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Speaker 3: like your telephone, the old telephones you stand on, dude, Yeah,

169
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Speaker 3: well your hits. It was just one piece of that

170
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Speaker 3: and had two wires onto it, and the wires sometimes

171
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Speaker 3: it'll be that long, so you'd have to stand up,

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Speaker 3: you hold it against you and you can just hear it.

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Speaker 3: And they used to play a jar radio that it

174
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Speaker 3: was someone who did the jar radio for about one

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Speaker 3: hour or two hours. And on a Sunday your family

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Speaker 3: could send requesting to you even back then, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: even back then. But that's all. I had this one radar,

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Speaker 3: but it only be on for one hour or something

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Speaker 3: like that, and the lights off would be off at

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Speaker 3: five o'clock or six o'clock, you know. And they had

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Speaker 3: no you're gonna remember they had no windows in these cells.

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Speaker 3: All the windows were smashed out. It was just two

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Speaker 3: steel bars, and the rain would come in and you

184
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Speaker 3: in the morning when you when you wake. It's a

185
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Speaker 3: long time to spend the cell at night. So what

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Speaker 3: you do is you get lost in your imagination. I

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Speaker 3: remember laying for years SIGNI. If I'd around left and

188
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Speaker 3: said a right, I would have got away, you know,

189
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Speaker 3: and all that madness that goes through your head, what if?

190
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Speaker 3: All the what is? And when we went to trial,

191
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Speaker 3: cut along story short. I got bail. This is when

192
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Speaker 3: the ship really hits the fan for me. I got bail,

193
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Speaker 3: and I come out on bail after burning Penthis for

194
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Speaker 3: six months and my men cooked up with Billy Longley,

195
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Speaker 3: the Texan. No, I haven't no time for him. Another case,

196
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Speaker 3: another bloke called Jimmy Baisley and another bloke who was

197
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Speaker 3: They were trying to take over the Waterside Workers Union.

198
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Speaker 3: They were trying to out kick Patty Sheen and all

199
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Speaker 3: that because all the money, you know, there's all the

200
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Speaker 3: ghost wages keeping boats, extorting fucking shipping companies like we're

201
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Speaker 3: not letting your boat out if we don't fix the rust,

202
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Speaker 3: you know, and all that ship. So they were trying

203
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Speaker 3: to take over. There was a lot of money involved,

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Speaker 3: especially for that.

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Speaker 4: So it was big earns.

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Speaker 5: But we're not just talking about you know, the palettes

207
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Speaker 5: that had come off and go missing. There was a

208
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Speaker 5: lot because when you're talking that'd be that'd be equivalent

209
00:10:01,441 --> 00:10:03,441
Speaker 5: to a couple of hundred k, you know, fifty k

210
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Speaker 5: back then today, you know, and your stamping a company

211
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Speaker 5: a couple of hundred k that's just brought in like

212
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Speaker 5: you know, this stuff that we were acquiring in the country.

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Speaker 4: And they paid it. They paid it.

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Speaker 3: They couldn't get their boats out out because they'd say, well,

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Speaker 3: we're going to get your boat fucking unseaworthy if you

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Speaker 3: don't pay us. Plus there might be say eighty blokes

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Speaker 3: working on the boat. They'd have one hundred and eighty

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Speaker 3: working on it, so there'd be one hundred dead wages.

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Speaker 4: This is the power of the painter and doctors. This

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Speaker 4: is legit, the strength that they were able to have.

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Speaker 3: Jackly, So what happened then all your wages were getting

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Speaker 3: whacked up. Well, silly fucking Longle went down there and

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Speaker 3: fucking fired a machine gun out the front of them.

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Speaker 3: The stuff that I don't understand is a man, you know,

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Speaker 3: out in the front of the union rooms on a

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Speaker 3: Sunday morning. These they always go down and have a

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Speaker 3: barrel and if someone was pinched, they'd look after mate.

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Speaker 3: I loved the Union. They're really good to me as

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Speaker 3: a kid. When I got pitched, they'd have a barrel

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Speaker 3: and they'd pay your lawyer fees and to be someone

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Speaker 3: from the Freemasons down there getting your bail and fucking

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Speaker 3: But the.

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Speaker 5: Way it should be wrong, not the way it is

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Speaker 5: fucking today. You're not out there trying to root your

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Speaker 5: mates missus and take his last fucking dollar because he's

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Speaker 5: been pinched.

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Speaker 4: You're talking about real men looking after men.

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Speaker 3: That's what hell it used to be. It had to

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Speaker 3: be like that, you know. Yeah, And then what happened

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Speaker 3: was that the greed comes into it, you know, and

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Speaker 3: you get certain blokes you want to be tough caunts

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Speaker 3: and take over, and you know all I got involved

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Speaker 3: with Longley and you know, a true story is mate,

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Speaker 3: this is a true story. He left me. I'm still

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Speaker 3: any by this dage. I'm still seventeen years of age

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Speaker 3: or something. I'm only a kid. We got shot at

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Speaker 3: by a crew drove passed and started shooting at us.

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Speaker 4: Since while you're on bail, still.

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Speaker 3: You're on bail. And he's got he's got his carrying

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Speaker 3: his carriers, two forty fives and fucking all that fucking went,

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Speaker 3: you know. And I had a shotgun, but I did

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Speaker 3: in two pieces because I was walking out to the

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Speaker 3: carry out of my father's house. Well, the other crew's

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Speaker 3: driven past started letting go of us. Dived onto the

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Speaker 3: ground behind the wall, and I'm trying to put the

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Speaker 3: shotgun together. So was it just a button the barrel,

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Speaker 3: got a pump shotgun? Just a piece together and just

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Speaker 3: screw the top up. You know, they've got five shots

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Speaker 3: in them from the bridge. Well I've watched him. He's

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Speaker 3: fired two shots into the ground. He didn't even fire

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Speaker 3: over the fucking car. He fired two shots in the ground.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Well then, and I'm a kid. So I came inside

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Speaker 3: and I'm like he's a fucking weak cunt, this bloke.

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Speaker 3: And they're all like, you can't call him that is

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Speaker 3: you know, he's the text and he's a bad motherfuck.

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Speaker 3: You know he killed his missus.

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Speaker 4: Where was your dad? Did was he there? Was this

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Speaker 4: had happened? Did you?

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Speaker 5: I mean, obviously you're old man, you've been a young

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Speaker 5: bloke and cop and the ship where you copped your

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Speaker 5: old boy, you would be shooting.

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Speaker 4: You don't shoot at.

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Speaker 3: The fucking ground exactly. So when we go inside, I

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Speaker 3: declare him no good. So he's a fucking weak cunt.

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Speaker 3: I just said what he did is did that when

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Speaker 3: he should have been doing that? And I'm here trying

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Speaker 3: to put this together or the other blow I really liked,

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Speaker 3: said jump the car, kid, let's go. And we went looking,

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Speaker 3: trying to check the area, make sure they've got out,

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Speaker 3: got it, and make sure that we'll looking for them.

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Speaker 3: And if we had a found that stuff would have happened.

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Speaker 3: But you know, and so cut along. So shure we

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Speaker 3: get inside, I declare him if fucking grub. They all

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Speaker 3: tell me, shut the fuck up, disrespectful little count. You

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Speaker 3: know he's a gangster and you know he's going to

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Speaker 3: he was trying to be the president of the union

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Speaker 3: and Baize was trying to be the secretary. So they

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Speaker 3: was trying to take over.

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Speaker 5: And so it was sorry just to slow that down

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Speaker 5: a little bit, because I think this is interesting you.

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Speaker 4: Talk about president and secretary.

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Speaker 5: You know, we look at I guess some organized crimes

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Speaker 5: and clubs and that sort of thing. I mean, there's obviously,

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Speaker 5: you know, a chain of command and hierarchy. So this

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Speaker 5: was a very prominent thing within the painter and dockers

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Speaker 5: as well.

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Speaker 4: And can you just.

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Speaker 5: Elaborate a little bit more on that structure you think,

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Speaker 5: if you don't mind, just so people understand that a

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Speaker 5: little bit more.

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Speaker 3: Well, what happened to you got your president and they

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Speaker 3: voted him by the by the union workers.

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Speaker 5: Is this an annual vote or is it a sort

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Speaker 5: of just until someone sucks up the.

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Speaker 3: Proper bellot vote. That's where the war started. They had

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Speaker 3: the proper vote and they reckon, there's our crew longly

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Speaker 3: reckons that they got voted in and Patty Shannon and

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Speaker 3: his crew. I like Patty Shannon was because you know,

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Speaker 3: he's good to me. You need to tell you people

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Speaker 3: that people were to you. They reckoned that the bellots,

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Speaker 3: the boxers got stylin, and the union rooms got burned

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Speaker 3: that night, and then they came back and found the

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Speaker 3: boxes and the votes went back to Patty Shannon. And

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Speaker 3: there was a Richmond crew of the Canes, you know,

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Speaker 3: and they were the backup of a Patty Shannon, and

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Speaker 3: that so alternship. But I declared Billy Longley that night

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Speaker 3: Billy Longley and his wife, who was staying at my

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Speaker 3: father's house, climbed out the window like fucking rats and

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Speaker 3: snuck away. And we've got a phone call the next

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Speaker 3: because it's no friends these days, we've got a phone

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Speaker 3: call at my at my mother's house and it's one

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Speaker 3: of the other crews who we like, who was not

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Speaker 3: a bad bloke. He said, guess what they grubbed Longley

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Speaker 3: just contact us and asked if we wanted to lay

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Speaker 3: out of your house?

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Speaker 4: Well bullshit, yeah, so that we're going to run through.

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Speaker 3: They were going to run, you know, and they ran

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Speaker 3: us and told us, well what happened was the coppers

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Speaker 3: ran through confiscated guns and you know, like because you know,

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Speaker 3: they were paying more money than what anyone else.

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Speaker 4: Was, so how did they get their heads up?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 4: So I reckon. The cop has got the heads up

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Speaker 4: on that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, one hundred percent. So you know, they

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Speaker 3: come and disarmed us. And then what happened was I

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Speaker 3: went back to jail and it was only a kid.

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Speaker 3: I've got thirty months in youth training center. They took

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Speaker 3: six months.

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Speaker 4: Off thirty three zero three zero thirty.

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Speaker 3: Months in a youth training center because the judge said,

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Speaker 3: he's seventeen years of age. You shouldn't have a burning penbridge.

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Speaker 3: We're going to send him to a youth training center.

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Speaker 3: I went to the youth training center. God found not guilty.

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Speaker 3: Of all the attempted murders those days, verbal didn't exist.

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Speaker 3: There was no such thing as verbal those days. Not

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Speaker 3: in Melbourne Melbourn. Verbal wasn't permissible unless you signed a

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Speaker 3: statement admitting to it. It wasn't. It wasn't permissible. And

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Speaker 3: they couldn't even get up and say he admitted to us.

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Speaker 3: Verbal was not admit you know, it wasn't was it

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Speaker 3: admissible in court? Plus in my other attempted murders with

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Speaker 3: the gangsters were someone must have spoke to them allegedly,

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Speaker 3: and they got up and said that's not him, And

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Speaker 3: they said, well, what did you point him out, and

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Speaker 3: they said, because that was the one the police told

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Speaker 3: me to point out. Then the prosecution went mad. The

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Speaker 3: judge just said, fuck it, stop the case. Jury go,

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Speaker 3: you come here to the prosecutor, you know, put your

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Speaker 3: case together next time, don't come into the half cock store.

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Speaker 3: You know, make sure you've got your witnesses in line.

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Speaker 3: Case dismissed.

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Speaker 5: But so this is this has gone back in the

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Speaker 5: ear where you know, this could be cakes basically playing

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Speaker 5: and simple. You could throw them and earn or whatever,

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Speaker 5: or just tell them it happened that that's.

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Speaker 3: The famous for it because it was such a big

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Speaker 3: union that could point out on who the jury was.

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Speaker 3: And then they go and say they've got a thousand members.

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Speaker 3: Then everyone tracked down you know the bloke, you know

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Speaker 3: that bloke and then then oh he's a cousin of me, brother,

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Speaker 3: he made he works at the fucking foundry with Billy.

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Speaker 3: Then Billy you're going to see him saying, mate, you're

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Speaker 3: sitting on you're on jury duty next week. You're got

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Speaker 3: to put your hand up for that jury duty. And

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Speaker 3: that bloke is not guilty, yes, and there's a drink

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Speaker 3: there for your family. That's how the system worked those days.

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Speaker 3: That's how the system worked. The system worked, the pageum

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Speaker 3: doctors round.

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Speaker 4: For the record.

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Speaker 1: Don't try and make you uncomfortable for the record. You

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Speaker 1: ain't try to grow down the stuff for your for

383
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Speaker 1: the record. Lab on me going hard the way for

384
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Speaker 1: the record. Ain't trying to link, No, trying to.

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Speaker 3: Waste for the record.

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Speaker 2: For the record, Yeah, futto photo rackon for the ragon,

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Speaker 2: Yeah for the Reggon for the ragged

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Speaker 4: H m hm