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Speaker 1: Now yesterday and my email in box was an email

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Speaker 1: for a change dot org petition and this one is

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Speaker 1: about stopping The headline is stop the Port Adelaide nuclear

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Speaker 1: dump zone and it reads in part, Port Adelaide was

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Speaker 1: promised shipbuilding jobs, not a nuclear waste dump. On eleven October,

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Speaker 1: the Labor Government passed the Australian Naval Nuclear Power Safety

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Speaker 1: Bill designed which designated rather the Osborne Naval Shipyard to

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Speaker 1: be a nuclear dump zone. The bill was passed without

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Speaker 1: any community consultational support. Passed with the support of the opposition.

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Speaker 1: This will allow material toxic and emitting radiation to be

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Speaker 1: stored in our community, which is a population center. It says,

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Speaker 1: no one likes the idea of nuclear waste, but it

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Speaker 1: should not be dumped on the La Feva Peninsula where

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Speaker 1: people live, work and play. The organizer of the petition

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Speaker 1: is Jake Hall Evans and he joins me now, Jake, good.

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Speaker 2: Morning, Good morning, Matthew.

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Speaker 3: How are you all right?

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Speaker 1: Thank you? So, now do we have any more details

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Speaker 1: other than this being legislated as a zone for nuclear waste.

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Speaker 2: Look, Matthew, that's one of the largest concerns is there

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Speaker 2: is very little detail aside from Section twelve D of

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Speaker 2: the bill saying that nuclear waste management facilities will be

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Speaker 2: a part of the designated activities down in Port Adelaida

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Speaker 2: the Osborne Shipyard. So it's very concerning. We don't have

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Speaker 2: a long term management option for the waste. We don't

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Speaker 2: know what and when will be dump there, and I

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Speaker 2: think there are serious questions about the risk related to

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Speaker 2: health and environment for the local community.

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Speaker 1: But we know we're getting nuclear submarines. You'd expect some

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Speaker 1: sort of uranium to be there as a result of that.

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Speaker 1: The way it works I understand is the power plants

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Speaker 1: will be shipped from the UK, but they'll be stored

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Speaker 1: at Osborne and eventually put into a sub and it'll

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Speaker 1: be in the water just in the Port river there,

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Speaker 1: So we know that's about to happen. This isn't a

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Speaker 1: big surprise, is it that they'd be legislating for a

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Speaker 1: repository of some sort as a result of that.

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Speaker 2: Well, this isn't a repository. This is just because that

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Speaker 2: detail is not there. The long term management options aren't detailed.

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Speaker 2: It's just saying that the Osborne Shipyard, which everyone would

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Speaker 2: believe is there to have shipbuilding jobs as the petition says,

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Speaker 2: it's also going to be a nuclear waste management facility.

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Speaker 2: This waste should be stored hundreds of meters underground for

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Speaker 2: long term storage. We don't know whether that's been provisioned.

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Speaker 2: We don't know what the long term regiment options are.

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Speaker 2: The community hasn't been engaged, the community hasn't been consulted,

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Speaker 2: and I think that that's the serious issue in relation

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Speaker 2: to leadership.

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Speaker 1: We've seen where nuclear waste have been planned in the past.

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Speaker 1: There's this and you've mentioned that a big not in

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Speaker 1: my backyard reaction nimbiism that that kind of comes into

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Speaker 1: the debate, is that what this is just nimbiism. You

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Speaker 1: don't want to do La Feva Peninsula because I mean,

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Speaker 1: who would would be the argument?

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Speaker 2: Look that it can be. I suppose positions that way,

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Speaker 2: But for me, the major concerns around risk management is

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Speaker 2: the site suitable, what infrastructure will be put there if

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Speaker 2: there is a event, what is the impact on the community.

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Speaker 2: None of that has been detailed. There's not a lot

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Speaker 2: of transparency here. There hasn't been a lot of accountability.

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Speaker 2: I understand that in the parliament debate was stopped on

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Speaker 2: the legislation amendments were passed, one of which was that

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Speaker 2: the material being disposed of should be give effort as

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Speaker 2: it's stumped, so we won't even know what's been placed

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Speaker 2: theret But you know, our representatives have allowed for this

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Speaker 2: nuclear waste management facility, but I don't know whether the

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Speaker 2: risk management profile has been done and that's a huge concern.

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Speaker 2: So it's a little more than nimbiasm. We have, as

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Speaker 2: you've rightly said, looked at low level storage and haven't

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Speaker 2: been able to come to a position on that, let

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Speaker 2: alone intermediate level waste, which is a lot higher.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, should low level and even intermediate be stored there

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Speaker 1: if we're going to have a designated zone.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it goes back to the concerns we

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Speaker 2: have about risks related to the health and environment and

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Speaker 2: when it's going to be dumped. There has been no

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Speaker 2: community engagement or consultation. We don't know whether the site suitable,

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Speaker 2: whether the infrastructure is there, and there are long term

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Speaker 2: storage challenges. But I don't think that the fininsula is

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Speaker 2: fit for purpose. It's close to a population center, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's close to water ways. Now I'm not an engineer,

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Speaker 2: but i'd like to see the risk profiles on it.

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Speaker 1: Oh, and there's a lot of places, as you'd be aware.

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Speaker 1: Jake around the city for instance, where low level waste

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Speaker 1: is stored. You walk down North Terrace from the hospital

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Speaker 1: all the way to the University and you'd be passing

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Speaker 1: probably twenty place as well low level waste is stored.

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Speaker 2: This isn't low level waste, it's intermediate level waste from

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Speaker 2: you know, as you said, nuclear submarine. So there's a

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Speaker 2: huge question. It goes back to the issue that the

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Speaker 2: community wasn't consulted, they weren't engaged, and many people in

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Speaker 2: the community don't know about this, which is really concerning

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Speaker 2: that the high level risk to health and environment and

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Speaker 2: long term health impacts haven't been highlighted.

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Speaker 1: Okay, a little earlier, Steven Mulligan, who's the Defense Industries Minister,

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Speaker 1: was here in the building. He was on five double

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Speaker 1: a breakfast, and I bailed him up in the corridor.

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Speaker 1: We had a chat about your petition with his ministerial

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Speaker 1: hat on and this is what he had to say. Well,

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Speaker 1: Defense Industries Minister, Stephen Mulligan, you're in the building today, handily,

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Speaker 1: what do you make of this?

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Speaker 4: Look? I understand there's always going to be a group

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Speaker 4: in our community that don't support anything to do with

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Speaker 4: the nuclear industries. But the fact is our state's going

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Speaker 4: to be home to the construction of nuclear powered submarines,

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Speaker 4: and that's going to require Osborne and the areas around

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Speaker 4: Osborne where these submarines are going to be constructed, to

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Speaker 4: be certified as nuclear safe, to be handling nuclear materials

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Speaker 4: for decades to come. And I think that's a good

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Speaker 4: thing for our economy, and it's important for the community

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Speaker 4: to know that it'll be done safely, it'll be done responsibly,

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Speaker 4: and it'll be done with the state's long term interests

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Speaker 4: at heart, not just economic interests, but environmental interests as well.

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Speaker 4: So you know, I understand that the community is very

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Speaker 4: interested in this issue, as they should be. This is

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Speaker 4: transformational for our state. But I think we need to

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Speaker 4: be careful when it comes to fear mongering or misrepresenting

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Speaker 4: what's going to be happening down at Osborne.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we're talking about a petition trying to stop a dump,

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Speaker 1: a nuclear waste dump, whether they're the right words. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're getting aucust they're going to be nuclear powered. I

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Speaker 1: imagine the LA Fever community is the rest of the state,

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Speaker 1: the rest of the country is aware of the fact

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Speaker 1: nuclear subs are on the way.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. And when I represented the bottom half

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Speaker 4: of the Lafeva Peninsula when I was first elected to parliament,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's important to remember that we've been exporting

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Speaker 4: uranium by truck from out of Harbor for forty years

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Speaker 4: down Victoria Road. That will continue. And the broader Lafever

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Speaker 4: Peninsula and Osborne in particular, is going to be the

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Speaker 4: site of advanced nuclear facilities. But I reiterate it'll be

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Speaker 4: done safely, it'll be done in conjunction with the community,

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Speaker 4: and it'll be done protecting the long term environmental interests

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Speaker 4: of the state. And that's the experience elsewhere around the world,

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Speaker 4: whether it's in the United States or in the United Kingdom,

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Speaker 4: they have decades of experience of building and maintaining these

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Speaker 4: submarines and doing it close to communities and doing it

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Speaker 4: really safely.

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Speaker 1: Did the federal government consult with the state government about

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Speaker 1: a repository of some sort down at Osborne.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's not so much a repository at Osborne. These

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Speaker 4: are nuclear handling facilities and so all of the facilities

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Speaker 4: and the areas around them have to be protected and

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Speaker 4: deemed safe and all of the necessary preparations and regulations

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Speaker 4: put in place. So absolutely, we've been speaking to the

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Speaker 4: federal government about this. But I think it's one thing

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Speaker 4: to be doing that body of work and quite something

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Speaker 4: else for people to be out campaigning in the community

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Speaker 4: claiming that this is going to be a new nuclear

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Speaker 4: waste up for South Australia. That is not the case.

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Speaker 4: We're pursuing this because it's in the best interests of

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Speaker 4: our state, it's in the best interests of our nation,

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Speaker 4: and we're going to do it responsibly and in a

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Speaker 4: way which is environmentally safe.

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Speaker 1: Is there the opportunity we've had this debate about low

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Speaker 1: level waste snored around the place, intermediate level waste, Is

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Speaker 1: it the opportunity to find somewhere to put all this stuff?

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Speaker 4: Ultimately, Well, that's a I think a separate debate and

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Speaker 4: one which you know, we tried to run here in

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Speaker 4: South Australia in twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen under the

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Speaker 4: former Labor government and there wasn't community consent back then.

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Speaker 1: And so it's the high level though we're nuclear waste

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the X rays and all those bits

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Speaker 1: and pieces laying around. Yeah, even the high level stuff

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Speaker 1: if you like. I mean, it's all going to go

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Speaker 1: somewhere ultimately.

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Speaker 4: Well, the previous coalition government course was pursuing that site

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Speaker 4: at Kimber and that was overturned only recently through federal

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Speaker 4: court actions. Look, our focus is not on storage. Our

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Speaker 4: focus is on the nuclear industry so far as it

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Speaker 4: enables us to be building these submarines. And you know,

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Speaker 4: this endeavor is going to see tens of billions of

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Speaker 4: dollars spent over the coming years in South Australia, employing

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Speaker 4: thousands more South Australians, high value, high pay jobs. But

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Speaker 4: most importantly, it's going to be done safely and responsibly.

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Speaker 1: Sleeper Mulligan, thanks for your time.

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Speaker 4: Thanks so much. Matthew J.

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Speaker 1: Coul Evans, So he mentioned fear mongering, is your petition fearmongering?

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Speaker 2: No, it's about creating awareness. And to be honest, that's

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Speaker 2: very disappointing to hear those comments. It's just ingenuous and

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Speaker 2: it's beIN twelve D of the Act is that the

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Speaker 2: facility would be for maintaining, storing or disposing of material.

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Speaker 2: So the fact that we've said it's not a nuclear

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Speaker 2: storage facility is just wrong. It's in the Act in

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Speaker 2: twelve D. It's not fearmongering. It's about creating awareness, all right.

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Speaker 1: And the argument that uraniums trundled down Victoria Road to

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Speaker 1: out of Harbor for decades now is that not a

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Speaker 1: reasonable point. I mean, it's sort of lives on the

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Speaker 1: peninsula in terms of getting it there and then shipping

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Speaker 1: it off.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, I'm focused on the waste aspect of it,

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Speaker 2: going back to my high school science days. I'm a

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Speaker 2: sign writer, not a scientist, but I would say that

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Speaker 2: you know, the properties changed once they've gone through that

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Speaker 2: chemical process, so very different between the pre and post

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Speaker 2: okay exercise.

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Speaker 1: All right, Look, I really appreciate your time this morning

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Speaker 1: coming on the radio. If people want to sign your petition,

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Speaker 1: where can they find it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that change dot org. We have many community

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Speaker 2: groups sharing it. There are QR codes, outer community centers

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Speaker 2: and clubs as well as online.

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Speaker 3: All right, dot org.

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Speaker 1: Terrific. Thanks for your time.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Matthew J.

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Speaker 1: Paul Evans petition to try and stop nuclear materials stored

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Speaker 1: down at the Osbourne shipbuilding site Rix, Patrick has called in.

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Speaker 1: He's done a lot of work on submarines for himself

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Speaker 1: as a Senator Senator over the years and previously with

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Speaker 1: the Nick Xenophon Party and now a candidate with the

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Speaker 1: Jackie Lambee Party. Patrick.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, Good morning, Matthew.

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Speaker 1: What's your point?

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Speaker 3: Oh, look, I've just raised three points having listened to

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Speaker 3: the discussion that you've had. The first point is that

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Speaker 3: we're not going to see any material at Osborne for

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Speaker 3: a very long time. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be

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Speaker 3: talking about it. We should. There has been too much

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Speaker 3: secrecy around us, but we can look to Western Australia

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Speaker 3: to see what's happening there, because we're going to start

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Speaker 3: seeing rotations of nuclear powered submarines coming through hma Sterling

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Speaker 3: and that will involve both Virginia class and Astute class

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Speaker 3: British submarines. And my understanding is much of the waste

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Speaker 3: will be very low level waste. They need to be

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Speaker 3: able to take care of it, and it is very

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Speaker 3: similar to hospitals and other arrangements. One of the things

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Speaker 3: that one of the amendments that Jackie Lamby moved when

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Speaker 3: the bill went through the Senate Chamber was one that said,

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Speaker 3: you can't start taking US waste or a UK waste

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Speaker 3: until such time as you've at least identified where we're

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Speaker 3: going to have a national radioactive waste management facility. So

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Speaker 3: I have a difficulty with the fact that we're going

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Speaker 3: to be taking this waste. I don't think it's dangerous,

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Speaker 3: but we still don't have a final destination for it.

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Speaker 3: The second point I will raise is that in terms

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Speaker 3: of awareness, what the people have bought Adelaide and Adelaide

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Speaker 3: in general need to be aware of is that if

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Speaker 3: this program goes ahead, we're going to see high level

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Speaker 3: radioactive waste in the form of reactor fuel sitting out

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Speaker 3: on the wolves out at Osborne, and that hasn't been

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Speaker 3: talked about enough. And just finally in Laster, what mister

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Speaker 3: Minister ma Mugan said, I think he's drinking defense as

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Speaker 3: kool aid. The fact of the matter is that right now,

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Speaker 3: the first nuclear powered submarines that will arrive in Australia

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Speaker 3: that will bear an Australian flag not destined to rive

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Speaker 3: until twenty thirty five. They're going to be Virginia class

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Speaker 3: submarines and they're going to be based in the West.

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Speaker 3: We're not going to see anything here for at least

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Speaker 3: twenty years. And my view is that this is the

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Speaker 3: whole program is coming off the rails and we will

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Speaker 3: end up not seeing any of it because to three

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Speaker 3: under a sixty eight billion dollar program. It's a grandiose program,

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Speaker 3: hugely expensive. But we're already seeing that the United States

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Speaker 3: can't meet its own demand for submarines. It's unlikely to

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Speaker 3: be able to provide us with nuclear power Submaine. They're

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Speaker 3: now talking about alternatives to assisting us in that regard,

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Speaker 3: and the UK submarines that we are going to build

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Speaker 3: here but purportedly going to build here again. Twenty forties

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Speaker 3: likely to be the first date we're going to see something.

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Speaker 3: A lot of time to talk about this, but we

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Speaker 3: need to make sure that there is transparency and people

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Speaker 3: are engaged.

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Speaker 1: Rex. Thank you for your call. Rex Patrick calling in