1
00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:13,561
Speaker 1: Apota, production, life stuff, life, parenting.

2
00:00:14,281 --> 00:00:16,361
Speaker 2: We're doing life together and we're just going to.

3
00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:17,161
Speaker 3: Tell you all about it.

4
00:00:17,601 --> 00:00:21,881
Speaker 1: I hate the word perimenopause. I can't We're not in menopause.

5
00:00:21,961 --> 00:00:28,681
Speaker 1: Like it's making me angry. What Welcome back to another

6
00:00:28,761 --> 00:00:32,601
Speaker 1: episode of who even are we? This is going to

7
00:00:32,641 --> 00:00:36,521
Speaker 1: be a vulnerable episode. I would have liked it to

8
00:00:36,561 --> 00:00:37,961
Speaker 1: be vulnerable.

9
00:00:37,561 --> 00:00:39,761
Speaker 4: More range, but I feel like it's.

10
00:00:39,561 --> 00:00:42,241
Speaker 1: Going to be vulnerable for me because we're going to

11
00:00:42,281 --> 00:00:43,400
Speaker 1: be talking about adoption.

12
00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think by sharing your story about this,

13
00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:48,601
Speaker 2: in the way that you look at it and the

14
00:00:48,601 --> 00:00:50,521
Speaker 2: way that you feel and the work that you've done

15
00:00:50,561 --> 00:00:52,841
Speaker 2: around it, I think it's really important to share. So

16
00:00:53,081 --> 00:00:57,161
Speaker 2: don't feel like I'm not sharing sharing the vulnerability with you.

17
00:00:58,481 --> 00:01:00,801
Speaker 2: I mean, I look a million dollars because I've sat

18
00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,920
Speaker 2: here and cried already and we hadn't even kicked off

19
00:01:03,921 --> 00:01:04,560
Speaker 2: the podcast.

20
00:01:05,641 --> 00:01:09,641
Speaker 1: This is a funny one because I have never I've

21
00:01:09,681 --> 00:01:12,521
Speaker 1: never not talked about it, so in terms of I've

22
00:01:12,521 --> 00:01:16,161
Speaker 1: never hidden it and not been open to talk about

23
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,840
Speaker 1: it to people. However, I've never really publicly spoken about

24
00:01:20,881 --> 00:01:24,000
Speaker 1: being adopted. I guess to just give you a quick

25
00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,841
Speaker 1: overview my story was that my mum and dad couldn't

26
00:01:28,881 --> 00:01:34,401
Speaker 1: have children and they really wanted children, and so they

27
00:01:34,521 --> 00:01:40,360
Speaker 1: adopted me from a family, and they adopted my younger

28
00:01:40,401 --> 00:01:45,761
Speaker 1: sister from another family. So my story was from what

29
00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:50,321
Speaker 1: I know, and we're given very little information. But my

30
00:01:50,961 --> 00:01:54,081
Speaker 1: birth mother is what I would call her, and she

31
00:01:55,041 --> 00:02:00,961
Speaker 1: had me when she was seventeen, I believe, and obviously

32
00:02:01,001 --> 00:02:03,361
Speaker 1: gave me up for adoption. Now, the story my parents

33
00:02:03,401 --> 00:02:07,481
Speaker 1: gave me was she was too young to look after you.

34
00:02:08,001 --> 00:02:11,560
Speaker 1: She wanted something better for you, a better life. Yeah,

35
00:02:11,601 --> 00:02:15,641
Speaker 1: and we were desperate to have a child, and you

36
00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,121
Speaker 1: were the child that we got. And aren't we so

37
00:02:18,281 --> 00:02:21,321
Speaker 1: lucky we chose you, like all of the great things,

38
00:02:21,361 --> 00:02:24,801
Speaker 1: Like my mum always told me the story of when

39
00:02:24,841 --> 00:02:27,121
Speaker 1: she got the phone call to say that they had

40
00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,521
Speaker 1: a baby for her. I'm assuming you go on some

41
00:02:30,641 --> 00:02:31,561
Speaker 1: kind of a wait list.

42
00:02:32,401 --> 00:02:33,041
Speaker 3: I know I was.

43
00:02:33,081 --> 00:02:35,840
Speaker 2: Like the adoption process I think has changed a lot

44
00:02:36,001 --> 00:02:38,881
Speaker 2: since probably when your parents.

45
00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:39,441
Speaker 5: Would have adopted you.

46
00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,120
Speaker 2: I think the adoption process has become obviously a lot

47
00:02:42,761 --> 00:02:46,921
Speaker 2: harder nowadays, and it's also different within different countries.

48
00:02:47,321 --> 00:02:48,041
Speaker 3: Yeah.

49
00:02:48,281 --> 00:02:51,521
Speaker 1: I also think rach like I was born in nineteen

50
00:02:51,561 --> 00:02:54,761
Speaker 1: eighty three, if it was now, I probably would have

51
00:02:54,761 --> 00:02:56,921
Speaker 1: been aborted because that would have been an EASi eruption.

52
00:02:57,121 --> 00:02:57,401
Speaker 5: Yeah.

53
00:02:57,561 --> 00:03:00,441
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like how old were you roughly when you found

54
00:03:00,481 --> 00:03:02,681
Speaker 2: out that you were adopted into that family?

55
00:03:03,121 --> 00:03:06,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I don't ever remember or an age because

56
00:03:06,281 --> 00:03:09,240
Speaker 1: I was always told So there was never a time

57
00:03:09,401 --> 00:03:12,441
Speaker 1: when they sat me down and went, hey, you know

58
00:03:12,601 --> 00:03:15,081
Speaker 1: how your mum and your dad. Yeah, Like, there was

59
00:03:15,161 --> 00:03:18,081
Speaker 1: never a time like that. It was just that I'd

60
00:03:18,121 --> 00:03:21,001
Speaker 1: always known, so they'd just always been really open about

61
00:03:21,041 --> 00:03:24,721
Speaker 1: talking about it. And I remember them saying, if there's

62
00:03:24,761 --> 00:03:28,240
Speaker 1: ever a time where you want to meet your birth parents,

63
00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,400
Speaker 1: then we'll support you, and when you're eighteen, you can

64
00:03:32,561 --> 00:03:35,241
Speaker 1: go down that avenue. And I never wanted to because

65
00:03:35,601 --> 00:03:41,281
Speaker 1: I felt it was disloyal to my parents. And there

66
00:03:41,321 --> 00:03:43,801
Speaker 1: was also a part of me that and still feel

67
00:03:43,841 --> 00:03:46,441
Speaker 1: like this to this day where I can't be bothered

68
00:03:46,481 --> 00:03:49,281
Speaker 1: to open that can of worms. It feels like a

69
00:03:49,401 --> 00:03:53,641
Speaker 1: big thing to do. There are other lives. I guess

70
00:03:53,681 --> 00:03:58,081
Speaker 1: there's also part of the rejection piece of going would

71
00:03:58,121 --> 00:04:00,841
Speaker 1: I want to reach out and then be like we've

72
00:04:00,961 --> 00:04:04,001
Speaker 1: got no interest in you, like we gave you away.

73
00:04:03,961 --> 00:04:07,081
Speaker 5: Forty years ago. Yeah, And that is a huge piece.

74
00:04:07,321 --> 00:04:09,801
Speaker 2: That is a huge piece, and no matter what age

75
00:04:09,801 --> 00:04:12,841
Speaker 2: you are, like, I think that rejection piece because you're

76
00:04:12,881 --> 00:04:15,720
Speaker 2: knowing to it. You know you're running a fifty to

77
00:04:15,761 --> 00:04:19,081
Speaker 2: fifty chance there. But I wonder if it's ever crossed

78
00:04:19,081 --> 00:04:21,241
Speaker 2: her mind to really want to connect with you, to

79
00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:22,521
Speaker 2: see where you are.

80
00:04:22,481 --> 00:04:23,761
Speaker 5: And how you turned out.

81
00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,041
Speaker 2: And I know that you were raised by and they

82
00:04:27,161 --> 00:04:31,481
Speaker 2: love you just as their own right, but that biological link,

83
00:04:31,721 --> 00:04:33,961
Speaker 2: I wonder from her side of things, and I can't

84
00:04:33,961 --> 00:04:36,280
Speaker 2: even speak on your day's path, but her side of things,

85
00:04:36,361 --> 00:04:39,440
Speaker 2: I can't imagine what it would have been like to

86
00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,161
Speaker 2: give and hand over a baby.

87
00:04:41,561 --> 00:04:41,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

88
00:04:42,481 --> 00:04:46,281
Speaker 1: I grew up for most of my life feeling like

89
00:04:47,721 --> 00:04:49,041
Speaker 1: I was really loved.

90
00:04:49,081 --> 00:04:51,320
Speaker 3: I know I was and am.

91
00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,440
Speaker 1: I heard the story about when my mum got a

92
00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,121
Speaker 1: phone call. My mom was a teacher and she got

93
00:04:57,161 --> 00:04:59,201
Speaker 1: a phone call while she was at work and they said,

94
00:04:59,401 --> 00:05:02,081
Speaker 1: we've got a baby for you. And I've heard even

95
00:05:02,081 --> 00:05:04,801
Speaker 1: the story from her friends who were there at the

96
00:05:04,841 --> 00:05:08,041
Speaker 1: time when she took the call, and how excited she

97
00:05:08,241 --> 00:05:09,921
Speaker 1: was and how excited they all were, Like they all

98
00:05:09,961 --> 00:05:11,760
Speaker 1: tell me about it, like, oh my god, it was

99
00:05:11,761 --> 00:05:14,280
Speaker 1: the best day and we were so excited. And because

100
00:05:14,721 --> 00:05:17,760
Speaker 1: how adoption worked back then, you didn't get maternity leave

101
00:05:17,961 --> 00:05:21,241
Speaker 1: or anything like that. So my mum and dad had

102
00:05:21,281 --> 00:05:24,561
Speaker 1: to go out and buy in one day a cass,

103
00:05:24,601 --> 00:05:26,401
Speaker 1: eat every single.

104
00:05:26,121 --> 00:05:28,841
Speaker 5: Thing, which we've got nine months to plan.

105
00:05:28,961 --> 00:05:32,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then take like holiday like annual leave to

106
00:05:33,561 --> 00:05:36,481
Speaker 1: raise the baby, raise the baby. And like my mum

107
00:05:36,521 --> 00:05:38,801
Speaker 1: told me about the phone call, she then phoned my

108
00:05:38,921 --> 00:05:41,041
Speaker 1: dad and when we've got a little girl, and she's

109
00:05:41,081 --> 00:05:44,281
Speaker 1: going to be called Catherine. And so I always knew

110
00:05:44,281 --> 00:05:50,640
Speaker 1: about that, and I always felt grateful for that and

111
00:05:50,961 --> 00:05:51,841
Speaker 1: that they'd.

112
00:05:51,561 --> 00:05:52,801
Speaker 3: Given me this great life.

113
00:05:52,841 --> 00:05:54,960
Speaker 1: And I never really thought about what it could have

114
00:05:55,001 --> 00:05:58,401
Speaker 1: been like, but I assumed it wouldn't have been you.

115
00:05:58,681 --> 00:06:00,720
Speaker 2: That's great, exactly right, when you look at the bigger

116
00:06:00,761 --> 00:06:03,801
Speaker 2: picture and you take that lens out, I think it's

117
00:06:03,921 --> 00:06:08,801
Speaker 2: super interesting to look at that moment in time those

118
00:06:08,801 --> 00:06:13,840
Speaker 2: two people as a couple were unable to reproduce together

119
00:06:14,761 --> 00:06:18,121
Speaker 2: and so desperately wanted a baby. Then you've got a

120
00:06:18,161 --> 00:06:22,201
Speaker 2: seventeen year old in a position where it's more unplanned,

121
00:06:22,481 --> 00:06:24,881
Speaker 2: and just the universe going, oh, well, she can't look

122
00:06:24,921 --> 00:06:28,080
Speaker 2: after her. But these people are desperate for a baby,

123
00:06:28,361 --> 00:06:30,561
Speaker 2: you know, like it's that changing of times. It's like,

124
00:06:30,641 --> 00:06:33,361
Speaker 2: imagine if you didn't get adopted and you stayed with

125
00:06:33,401 --> 00:06:36,440
Speaker 2: your seventeen year old biological mother, where would you have

126
00:06:36,481 --> 00:06:39,601
Speaker 2: been today and you have those moments like the sliding

127
00:06:39,641 --> 00:06:42,361
Speaker 2: door moments? Almost is I think where I'm going with

128
00:06:42,401 --> 00:06:46,161
Speaker 2: that is these people would just this passion and this

129
00:06:46,361 --> 00:06:50,441
Speaker 2: like intense love and desire to want to have their

130
00:06:50,561 --> 00:06:53,121
Speaker 2: very own baby, like you said, like to get that

131
00:06:53,161 --> 00:06:56,121
Speaker 2: phone call and to know within that day you have

132
00:06:56,241 --> 00:07:00,001
Speaker 2: to change your entire life to accommodate a brand new

133
00:07:00,041 --> 00:07:03,401
Speaker 2: baby that's been given to you. Do you think that

134
00:07:03,601 --> 00:07:06,080
Speaker 2: the way that they did it by telling you and

135
00:07:06,281 --> 00:07:10,241
Speaker 2: you always knowing, was it the right way of doing it?

136
00:07:10,281 --> 00:07:13,081
Speaker 2: And now as a parent, do you see that it

137
00:07:13,121 --> 00:07:17,121
Speaker 2: should have been any other way? Would you have rather

138
00:07:17,321 --> 00:07:19,121
Speaker 2: just believed a different story?

139
00:07:19,841 --> 00:07:19,921
Speaker 4: No?

140
00:07:20,241 --> 00:07:23,601
Speaker 1: Look, I think the story that I was told and

141
00:07:23,601 --> 00:07:27,201
Speaker 1: that I believed for you know most of my life

142
00:07:28,281 --> 00:07:31,361
Speaker 1: was a lovely story. I felt like it ticked all

143
00:07:31,401 --> 00:07:33,801
Speaker 1: the boxes of the right thing to do. It never

144
00:07:33,841 --> 00:07:36,961
Speaker 1: be a surprise, always felt loved, always felt like it

145
00:07:37,041 --> 00:07:40,281
Speaker 1: was meant to be because she wouldn't have been able

146
00:07:40,281 --> 00:07:42,121
Speaker 1: to give me a great life, but she wanted the

147
00:07:42,161 --> 00:07:44,761
Speaker 1: best for me. You know, I don't know whether all

148
00:07:44,801 --> 00:07:48,441
Speaker 1: of that's true, but the story was definitely the best

149
00:07:48,721 --> 00:07:51,161
Speaker 1: I believe that it could have been. They dealt with

150
00:07:51,241 --> 00:07:54,201
Speaker 1: it in the best way that they could have. However,

151
00:07:54,281 --> 00:07:58,481
Speaker 1: what I've learned later in life is it didn't matter

152
00:07:58,601 --> 00:08:03,121
Speaker 1: how well they did it to some of the I

153
00:08:03,241 --> 00:08:06,441
Speaker 1: want to say trauma, and I love that way, but abandonment,

154
00:08:06,481 --> 00:08:09,961
Speaker 1: trauma and sense of belonging and all of the things

155
00:08:10,081 --> 00:08:14,201
Speaker 1: that I had which they couldn't have possibly known about,

156
00:08:14,521 --> 00:08:17,121
Speaker 1: so they wouldn't have known that I would have had

157
00:08:17,161 --> 00:08:21,521
Speaker 1: to do that work because the story I had and

158
00:08:21,641 --> 00:08:25,281
Speaker 1: the circumstances is also lovely. And isn't she so loved

159
00:08:25,841 --> 00:08:30,121
Speaker 1: and interesting? Because this was only probably a few years ago,

160
00:08:30,601 --> 00:08:35,441
Speaker 1: and we had a conversation and I remember saying to you, Oh, yeah,

161
00:08:35,481 --> 00:08:37,801
Speaker 1: but you know, my mom's my mom, My dad's my dad.

162
00:08:37,801 --> 00:08:39,881
Speaker 1: They love me, blah blah blah blah blah, and I'm

163
00:08:39,881 --> 00:08:43,281
Speaker 1: fine about it. I remember you saying, oh, you know,

164
00:08:43,321 --> 00:08:45,281
Speaker 1: you don't have to be fine about it, and I

165
00:08:45,321 --> 00:08:47,961
Speaker 1: was like, what does she mean? I am fine about it.

166
00:08:48,001 --> 00:08:49,921
Speaker 1: I've always been fine about it. I've been open to

167
00:08:50,001 --> 00:08:52,641
Speaker 1: talk about it. And you went, oh, yeah, you just

168
00:08:52,761 --> 00:08:54,881
Speaker 1: don't need to be fine about it. And I went

169
00:08:54,961 --> 00:09:00,961
Speaker 1: to see a counselor and she said, I've never dealt

170
00:09:01,001 --> 00:09:05,561
Speaker 1: with any person that's been adopted that doesn't have abandonment trauma.

171
00:09:06,041 --> 00:09:09,161
Speaker 1: Things fit into place, like it made sense, Like there

172
00:09:09,161 --> 00:09:12,001
Speaker 1: was light bulb moments when I was working through it

173
00:09:12,041 --> 00:09:15,041
Speaker 1: all going oh my god, like I've never felt a

174
00:09:15,081 --> 00:09:18,961
Speaker 1: sense of belonging. I had the best family, my auntie

175
00:09:18,961 --> 00:09:21,641
Speaker 1: and uncle and cousins who were all really close.

176
00:09:21,721 --> 00:09:22,881
Speaker 3: Still am really close.

177
00:09:22,961 --> 00:09:25,241
Speaker 1: My cousin came out to Australia to see me at Christmas,

178
00:09:25,481 --> 00:09:28,481
Speaker 1: had great time and had great Christmases and all the

179
00:09:28,521 --> 00:09:30,401
Speaker 1: rest of it. But there was always a part of

180
00:09:30,441 --> 00:09:33,801
Speaker 1: me that didn't feel as good as them. So we'd

181
00:09:33,841 --> 00:09:35,721
Speaker 1: go to their house and it was all, you know,

182
00:09:36,081 --> 00:09:40,721
Speaker 1: the craziness, and then I remember feeling like the poor cousins. Yeah,

183
00:09:40,761 --> 00:09:43,081
Speaker 1: and there was no reason for me to feel like that.

184
00:09:43,201 --> 00:09:45,841
Speaker 2: No, it's an internal dialogue, and I think it's an

185
00:09:45,881 --> 00:09:50,281
Speaker 2: internal feeling. Yeah, And it's an unknown internal feeling, especially

186
00:09:50,321 --> 00:09:53,961
Speaker 2: given those particular age brackets in which you would have

187
00:09:54,001 --> 00:09:56,201
Speaker 2: been there at that time with your cousins and you

188
00:09:56,241 --> 00:09:59,001
Speaker 2: would have been looking going like you've got a sister,

189
00:09:59,561 --> 00:10:01,481
Speaker 2: your sister is always going to be your sister, but

190
00:10:01,641 --> 00:10:02,921
Speaker 2: it's not the same connection.

191
00:10:03,361 --> 00:10:05,361
Speaker 5: Yeah, I can completely.

192
00:10:05,201 --> 00:10:07,201
Speaker 2: Stand where you'd be coming from, because it would just

193
00:10:07,241 --> 00:10:09,441
Speaker 2: be that inner sense of belonging.

194
00:10:09,681 --> 00:10:10,241
Speaker 3: Yeah.

195
00:10:10,281 --> 00:10:12,841
Speaker 1: And even when I moved to Australia and my family

196
00:10:12,881 --> 00:10:15,881
Speaker 1: are all in England, still my cousin was really angry

197
00:10:15,921 --> 00:10:17,561
Speaker 1: with me and didn't speak to me for a while

198
00:10:17,601 --> 00:10:21,841
Speaker 1: and I had no understanding whatsoever rate of what the

199
00:10:21,881 --> 00:10:24,721
Speaker 1: problem was. And it's not until years later he was like,

200
00:10:24,881 --> 00:10:27,121
Speaker 1: I was really sad that you were, like, I wanted

201
00:10:27,161 --> 00:10:30,841
Speaker 1: our kids to grow together and for me to be thinking,

202
00:10:31,081 --> 00:10:35,401
Speaker 1: I have absolutely zero idea of why.

203
00:10:35,201 --> 00:10:37,160
Speaker 3: You would have been upset about me going.

204
00:10:36,961 --> 00:10:40,081
Speaker 1: Because you're internal because I didn't look at myself as

205
00:10:40,121 --> 00:10:45,241
Speaker 1: being worthy. Yeah, I didn't look at myself as belonging anywhere.

206
00:10:45,881 --> 00:10:48,561
Speaker 1: I honestly didn't think anyone would care.

207
00:10:49,001 --> 00:10:52,841
Speaker 2: Yeah, they'd like really big feelings though, And I think, like,

208
00:10:53,041 --> 00:10:55,681
Speaker 2: just to recap on me telling you that it's okay

209
00:10:55,761 --> 00:10:58,001
Speaker 2: not to be fine, I think when you start to

210
00:10:58,001 --> 00:11:00,561
Speaker 2: get to know someone like obviously we're friends first, but

211
00:11:00,641 --> 00:11:03,001
Speaker 2: then we're co hosts after that is when you can

212
00:11:03,001 --> 00:11:06,561
Speaker 2: see someone go i'm fine and you're really like that

213
00:11:06,721 --> 00:11:10,201
Speaker 2: is one of the biggest giveaways in anyone's response. I'm

214
00:11:10,241 --> 00:11:13,161
Speaker 2: fine is like you know, and I think from my

215
00:11:13,321 --> 00:11:15,081
Speaker 2: side of things, like I was sort of going there

216
00:11:15,121 --> 00:11:18,321
Speaker 2: saying like, it's okay not to be It's okay to

217
00:11:18,401 --> 00:11:21,041
Speaker 2: have other feelings that may be attached to it that

218
00:11:21,121 --> 00:11:23,601
Speaker 2: you don't want to kind of acknowledge because like you said,

219
00:11:23,641 --> 00:11:26,041
Speaker 2: it would open a can of worms of feelings and

220
00:11:26,081 --> 00:11:29,001
Speaker 2: feelings can be overwhelming and then I don't have time

221
00:11:29,041 --> 00:11:31,801
Speaker 2: to deal with that. And it's kind of like from

222
00:11:31,801 --> 00:11:34,001
Speaker 2: my side of things, I was going in with that

223
00:11:34,041 --> 00:11:36,121
Speaker 2: moment in time of going but it's okay not to

224
00:11:36,201 --> 00:11:39,721
Speaker 2: be fine, because underneath those layers of like I'm fine,

225
00:11:39,721 --> 00:11:42,121
Speaker 2: I'm fine, is like just an internal dialogue that you

226
00:11:42,321 --> 00:11:45,401
Speaker 2: have the ability to be able to like let go

227
00:11:45,561 --> 00:11:49,481
Speaker 2: of and change for you first and foremost.

228
00:11:49,201 --> 00:11:52,281
Speaker 1: It was the absolute best conversation we could have had

229
00:11:52,401 --> 00:11:56,921
Speaker 1: because it opened up so much and created so much

230
00:11:57,041 --> 00:12:00,281
Speaker 1: work for me to do, but it all made perfect sense.

231
00:12:00,361 --> 00:12:02,841
Speaker 1: Like when we talk about how my mom and dad

232
00:12:03,121 --> 00:12:06,041
Speaker 1: like they couldn't have done it any better what they knew.

233
00:12:06,921 --> 00:12:11,201
Speaker 1: My mum on my eighteenth birthday, wrote me a poem,

234
00:12:11,761 --> 00:12:15,521
Speaker 1: and I can't remember it all, but I remember a

235
00:12:15,561 --> 00:12:19,281
Speaker 1: couple of lines of it, and she read it out,

236
00:12:20,161 --> 00:12:23,241
Speaker 1: not blood from my blood, not bone from my bone,

237
00:12:23,801 --> 00:12:30,281
Speaker 1: but still miraculously my own. Never forget for one minute

238
00:12:30,521 --> 00:12:32,681
Speaker 1: you didn't grow under my heart, but in it.

239
00:12:33,041 --> 00:12:33,881
Speaker 5: Yeah.

240
00:12:33,921 --> 00:12:44,041
Speaker 2: And and even as an eighteen year old, that piece

241
00:12:44,161 --> 00:12:48,601
Speaker 2: of belonging and that inner sense of knowing that you

242
00:12:48,681 --> 00:12:54,441
Speaker 2: were loved, and that no matter she didn't carry you biologically,

243
00:12:55,321 --> 00:12:57,601
Speaker 2: but at the same time, you were given to her

244
00:12:58,161 --> 00:13:02,161
Speaker 2: for a reason. You were meant to be raised by her,

245
00:13:02,241 --> 00:13:04,721
Speaker 2: and you were meant to have connected your souls, were

246
00:13:04,801 --> 00:13:07,721
Speaker 2: meant to connect your souls when meant to do this

247
00:13:07,921 --> 00:13:08,721
Speaker 2: life together.

248
00:13:09,321 --> 00:13:12,441
Speaker 1: It was confusing for the things to work through because

249
00:13:13,001 --> 00:13:17,401
Speaker 1: it felt like like even that poem was like, oh,

250
00:13:17,401 --> 00:13:20,001
Speaker 1: my goodness, you couldn't have been any more loved. And

251
00:13:20,081 --> 00:13:23,201
Speaker 1: so I went through so many years, my whole life

252
00:13:23,321 --> 00:13:26,801
Speaker 1: until a few years ago, going I was so loved

253
00:13:27,161 --> 00:13:30,121
Speaker 1: and I was so lucky. And I remember my mum

254
00:13:30,201 --> 00:13:33,721
Speaker 1: telling me this story of like, you know, other people

255
00:13:33,841 --> 00:13:36,961
Speaker 1: just have children. We chose you like they like.

256
00:13:37,001 --> 00:13:40,281
Speaker 5: It was making me hard to make you feel.

257
00:13:39,761 --> 00:13:43,361
Speaker 1: So chosen, so to then realize that you've actually got

258
00:13:43,401 --> 00:13:46,961
Speaker 1: so much to work on the belonging piece, the abandonment

259
00:13:47,001 --> 00:13:51,961
Speaker 1: trauma we've spoken Rach about. This is going to sound

260
00:13:52,001 --> 00:13:54,201
Speaker 1: like such a weird thing to bring up, but when

261
00:13:54,201 --> 00:13:59,081
Speaker 1: my cat died, something really strange happened. And I know,

262
00:13:59,321 --> 00:14:01,121
Speaker 1: you know, everyone loves their pets and all the rest

263
00:14:01,121 --> 00:14:03,481
Speaker 1: of it, but this was like next level. I felt

264
00:14:03,641 --> 00:14:08,481
Speaker 1: so sad, so unbelievably sad. I'd lost my mum. I

265
00:14:08,521 --> 00:14:11,881
Speaker 1: felt sad then, but this brought up completely different feelings.

266
00:14:12,441 --> 00:14:15,641
Speaker 1: I felt so lonely. It's just a fucking he was

267
00:14:15,681 --> 00:14:19,081
Speaker 1: a loud cat. Yeah, And I remember going to see

268
00:14:19,321 --> 00:14:22,961
Speaker 1: my counselor and I said this is and I laughed.

269
00:14:22,961 --> 00:14:25,241
Speaker 1: I was like, this is such a fucking weird thing

270
00:14:25,281 --> 00:14:27,521
Speaker 1: to do. I booked a session to see you about

271
00:14:27,521 --> 00:14:30,921
Speaker 1: my dead cat, Like it's so crazy. And we worked

272
00:14:30,961 --> 00:14:33,041
Speaker 1: through all this stuff and it took me back to

273
00:14:33,081 --> 00:14:35,001
Speaker 1: a place of because we were trying to work out

274
00:14:35,001 --> 00:14:38,121
Speaker 1: where the lonely feeling came from. And I said, I

275
00:14:38,361 --> 00:14:40,281
Speaker 1: just remember being in a dark room and I was

276
00:14:40,321 --> 00:14:42,281
Speaker 1: all by myself and I was just so lonely and

277
00:14:42,321 --> 00:14:45,921
Speaker 1: I'm all on my own and everybody's left, and that

278
00:14:46,241 --> 00:14:48,921
Speaker 1: I feel like really sums up the.

279
00:14:48,961 --> 00:14:53,401
Speaker 4: Feeling of the little girl. Yeah behind, And we know

280
00:14:53,601 --> 00:14:57,841
Speaker 4: now the importance of skin to skin and time with

281
00:14:58,041 --> 00:15:00,121
Speaker 4: the mother, like we talk about it all the time,

282
00:15:00,241 --> 00:15:02,841
Speaker 4: like a baby isn't born in a hospital without being

283
00:15:02,921 --> 00:15:05,921
Speaker 4: put on its mum, Like we know all the importance

284
00:15:06,081 --> 00:15:08,241
Speaker 4: of that, but we didn't know in nineteen eighty three.

285
00:15:08,761 --> 00:15:11,081
Speaker 4: All we thought was that baby just needs to be

286
00:15:11,121 --> 00:15:11,841
Speaker 4: taken care of.

287
00:15:12,121 --> 00:15:16,281
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a home like that physical right, they look

288
00:15:16,321 --> 00:15:18,361
Speaker 2: at it and maybe in you know, nineteen eight three,

289
00:15:18,961 --> 00:15:21,321
Speaker 2: it was like, get her a home and make sure

290
00:15:21,361 --> 00:15:24,761
Speaker 2: she's physically looked after, and she's got nappies and she's fed,

291
00:15:24,841 --> 00:15:26,841
Speaker 2: and she's this and that, and we've ticked the box

292
00:15:27,041 --> 00:15:28,641
Speaker 2: of sending her to a good family.

293
00:15:29,001 --> 00:15:32,001
Speaker 1: Yeah, they've done the right thing. Everybody's done the right thing,

294
00:15:32,081 --> 00:15:33,321
Speaker 1: and this baby's been.

295
00:15:33,201 --> 00:15:36,321
Speaker 2: Taken emotional gone to it, and we've now learned is

296
00:15:36,361 --> 00:15:40,641
Speaker 2: what is super important to now looking at it, like

297
00:15:40,721 --> 00:15:43,441
Speaker 2: from your side of things, going, I'm just that little

298
00:15:43,441 --> 00:15:46,241
Speaker 2: girl in a really dark room and I feel so lonely.

299
00:15:47,001 --> 00:15:49,641
Speaker 2: And the cat was the catalyst because he was he

300
00:15:49,761 --> 00:15:51,601
Speaker 2: was fucking wild, that cat.

301
00:15:51,841 --> 00:15:54,201
Speaker 5: So when he died and you were so upset.

302
00:15:54,241 --> 00:15:57,641
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, there's definitely something more there for you,

303
00:15:57,801 --> 00:15:59,401
Speaker 2: like it's undoing something.

304
00:15:59,561 --> 00:16:01,401
Speaker 5: But it also is scary and you.

305
00:16:01,321 --> 00:16:05,041
Speaker 2: Feel like this is ridiculous because your logical brain wants

306
00:16:05,161 --> 00:16:06,361
Speaker 2: to come into play to tell.

307
00:16:06,241 --> 00:16:08,441
Speaker 5: You this is ridiculous. It's just a cat.

308
00:16:09,081 --> 00:16:11,961
Speaker 2: Well it's not a cat because you tried to save

309
00:16:12,041 --> 00:16:15,921
Speaker 2: the cat. You tried to help the cat. When you

310
00:16:15,961 --> 00:16:19,521
Speaker 2: look at what that is, you were saving something and

311
00:16:19,521 --> 00:16:22,841
Speaker 2: then you still lost the battle. So then for you,

312
00:16:23,561 --> 00:16:25,641
Speaker 2: of course it's going to bring up loneliness and of

313
00:16:25,681 --> 00:16:28,281
Speaker 2: course it's going to bring up all of these other feelings.

314
00:16:28,321 --> 00:16:30,881
Speaker 2: But like I said, I think it's the catalyst to

315
00:16:31,001 --> 00:16:33,641
Speaker 2: it all that undoes it. And if it does feel

316
00:16:33,641 --> 00:16:36,881
Speaker 2: heavy and it does feel hard, don't shot away from it,

317
00:16:36,921 --> 00:16:40,721
Speaker 2: because sometimes the harder it is to lift, the longer

318
00:16:40,721 --> 00:16:41,561
Speaker 2: you've had that weight.

319
00:16:41,961 --> 00:16:45,481
Speaker 1: It was so interesting to me the whole thing around

320
00:16:45,521 --> 00:16:48,921
Speaker 1: the cat, Like I would speak to people and that

321
00:16:48,961 --> 00:16:52,561
Speaker 1: cat was really sick and they'd be like, oh, you know, sad,

322
00:16:52,641 --> 00:16:55,121
Speaker 1: but you know what to sit it down. I spent

323
00:16:55,201 --> 00:16:58,681
Speaker 1: eight thousand dollars I didn't have rate on an operation

324
00:16:58,881 --> 00:17:01,241
Speaker 1: to try and save the cat. Who was I trying

325
00:17:01,241 --> 00:17:06,201
Speaker 1: to save You're trying to save myself. Don't give up,

326
00:17:06,361 --> 00:17:09,761
Speaker 1: don't give up, don't leave them. Yeah, it's so interesting

327
00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,680
Speaker 1: the feelings around myself. I remember speaking to the counselor

328
00:17:13,801 --> 00:17:16,801
Speaker 1: and her big thing is always like your body knows,

329
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:18,960
Speaker 1: Like even if you think you don't know the story

330
00:17:19,001 --> 00:17:21,360
Speaker 1: of when you were born or whatever it is, your

331
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,600
Speaker 1: body knows. And I remember thinking, oh, that's fun, that's bullshit,

332
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,960
Speaker 1: like that's just like woo woo stuff that I don't believe.

333
00:17:29,001 --> 00:17:30,801
Speaker 1: And then when we did all this work, I was like, oh, wow,

334
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,281
Speaker 1: I actually believe it. Like I can see myself, I

335
00:17:33,321 --> 00:17:37,120
Speaker 1: can feel that lonely feeling and I've done a lot

336
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,481
Speaker 1: of work on that. And yeah, I won't go fully

337
00:17:39,481 --> 00:17:43,281
Speaker 1: into the woo noss of it, but telling that baby.

338
00:17:42,961 --> 00:17:45,201
Speaker 5: That you were always there, I think for them.

339
00:17:46,441 --> 00:17:49,960
Speaker 2: So you do some form of like inner work with

340
00:17:50,321 --> 00:17:53,561
Speaker 2: therapists or a counselor or a psychologist or someone that

341
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,001
Speaker 2: you connect with, and you sort of go in to

342
00:17:56,961 --> 00:18:00,401
Speaker 2: heal the inner child. And that's different ages and stages

343
00:18:00,441 --> 00:18:02,521
Speaker 2: for eating every one of us, because we come into

344
00:18:02,561 --> 00:18:05,721
Speaker 2: this life and you know, things happen, and chips happen

345
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,761
Speaker 2: and adoptions happen with that, I guess you get to

346
00:18:09,801 --> 00:18:11,521
Speaker 2: our age and you're like, I just don't know why

347
00:18:11,561 --> 00:18:14,200
Speaker 2: I keep going into this weird triggered state of like

348
00:18:14,281 --> 00:18:16,521
Speaker 2: this will happen and then I act like this but

349
00:18:16,561 --> 00:18:19,680
Speaker 2: it doesn't even feel like me, and you go, yeah.

350
00:18:19,441 --> 00:18:20,001
Speaker 5: I get it.

351
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,840
Speaker 2: I get it because I've done work around that. I mean, like,

352
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,640
Speaker 2: that feeling of loneliness is so intense for probably so

353
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,561
Speaker 2: many of us, but from all different stories and reasons.

354
00:18:33,001 --> 00:18:36,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think insecurity as well, Like I try and

355
00:18:36,961 --> 00:18:40,200
Speaker 1: understand when I look back at myself and even you know,

356
00:18:40,321 --> 00:18:43,080
Speaker 1: I see people now, I see beautiful girls, and I'm like,

357
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:45,561
Speaker 1: I don't understand why you're insecure.

358
00:18:45,041 --> 00:18:47,361
Speaker 5: Like, yeah, I think that's human my point.

359
00:18:47,201 --> 00:18:50,400
Speaker 1: Of like, she's so beautiful all the rest of it.

360
00:18:50,441 --> 00:18:53,640
Speaker 1: And I look back at my teenage self and I'm like,

361
00:18:53,761 --> 00:18:57,400
Speaker 1: why were you so insecure? Why were you having sex

362
00:18:57,441 --> 00:19:00,360
Speaker 1: with random guys after being out in nightclubs because you

363
00:19:00,481 --> 00:19:03,160
Speaker 1: needed to feel loved. You had so much love, but

364
00:19:03,241 --> 00:19:07,080
Speaker 1: yet you needed to feel love in other areas like

365
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:08,241
Speaker 1: that worthy.

366
00:19:07,921 --> 00:19:11,400
Speaker 3: Stuff, like yeah, I never felt worthy of so much.

367
00:19:11,521 --> 00:19:14,441
Speaker 2: Yeah. So interesting because from the start, like you said,

368
00:19:14,481 --> 00:19:17,321
Speaker 2: from the moment that your mom and dad knew how

369
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,200
Speaker 2: the best of their abilities, knew how to raise a

370
00:19:20,281 --> 00:19:23,680
Speaker 2: baby be and give it to them on that day,

371
00:19:23,761 --> 00:19:26,521
Speaker 2: you know they've gone in with that positive of like.

372
00:19:26,561 --> 00:19:28,801
Speaker 5: You're loved, you loved, You're loved, you loved.

373
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,640
Speaker 2: Katie, We're telling you you're loved, and you're going, I'm loved.

374
00:19:32,681 --> 00:19:35,041
Speaker 5: I think I'm loved. Am I loved? I don't understand.

375
00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:38,520
Speaker 2: And then it's not until you quiet all of the

376
00:19:38,561 --> 00:19:43,440
Speaker 2: noise and then go in and start to go, I

377
00:19:43,561 --> 00:19:47,721
Speaker 2: love me like I love me. I know that I'm

378
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,321
Speaker 2: safe because I've got me and I've got my back.

379
00:19:50,681 --> 00:19:54,161
Speaker 2: And it's that inner recognition that people could scream at

380
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,241
Speaker 2: you black and blue for your entire childhood, that you.

381
00:19:57,241 --> 00:19:58,161
Speaker 5: Are so loved.

382
00:19:58,321 --> 00:20:00,880
Speaker 2: It's not brainwashing, don't get me wrong, but it's a

383
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,120
Speaker 2: belief system that you've been told over and over again,

384
00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:06,200
Speaker 2: which is then we fast forward to when you and

385
00:20:06,201 --> 00:20:07,840
Speaker 2: I are having the conversation a couple of years ago

386
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 2: and you're going, I'm fine, I'm laughed, I was laughed,

387
00:20:10,201 --> 00:20:13,120
Speaker 2: and you're going, Babe, it's okay. I'd be angry at

388
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,001
Speaker 2: my seventeen year old mum that left me I was

389
00:20:16,041 --> 00:20:18,920
Speaker 2: angry when my dad left me at fourteen, and he

390
00:20:18,961 --> 00:20:21,841
Speaker 2: didn't die, and he didn't hand me over for adoption,

391
00:20:22,041 --> 00:20:25,640
Speaker 2: but he chose to leave the family cohort. There's that

392
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,681
Speaker 2: part of you that goes like, doesn't matter if someone

393
00:20:27,681 --> 00:20:29,721
Speaker 2: screams black and blue and tells you that that's what

394
00:20:29,761 --> 00:20:32,961
Speaker 2: you believe until you do that little piece of your

395
00:20:33,001 --> 00:20:35,281
Speaker 2: inner stuff, which you've done a couple of years off now,

396
00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:37,921
Speaker 2: which is why you come to that comfortable place now

397
00:20:37,921 --> 00:20:41,120
Speaker 2: to talk about it and share it. Mike, question to

398
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,400
Speaker 2: you would be, do you think that your adoption piece

399
00:20:45,961 --> 00:20:49,561
Speaker 2: shaped the mother that then you became with your two girls.

400
00:20:50,801 --> 00:20:51,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

401
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,801
Speaker 1: One of the things that I always thought about when

402
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,641
Speaker 1: I was younger, and this was just like a superficial

403
00:20:56,721 --> 00:21:00,080
Speaker 1: thing that I felt like, was that I didn't look

404
00:21:00,281 --> 00:21:01,440
Speaker 1: like anybody.

405
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:03,801
Speaker 3: So it was a really big deal.

406
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,200
Speaker 1: For me that my mum was blonde and my sister

407
00:21:06,281 --> 00:21:09,801
Speaker 1: was blonde, so she looked like mum's child, whereas I

408
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:17,360
Speaker 1: had darker skin, darker hair, Indian heritage. They're both you know, white, and.

409
00:21:18,681 --> 00:21:20,681
Speaker 5: So I always belonging piece as well.

410
00:21:20,801 --> 00:21:21,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

411
00:21:21,241 --> 00:21:23,120
Speaker 1: The thing that I would always say that I was

412
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,440
Speaker 1: bothered by was the fact that I didn't look like

413
00:21:27,041 --> 00:21:31,120
Speaker 1: my family, and so therefore I felt like I stuck

414
00:21:31,201 --> 00:21:32,920
Speaker 1: out like a sore thumb kind of thing. I was

415
00:21:32,961 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 1: the one that looked different, like I looked like the

416
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 1: adopted child, really, and that always bothered me as a

417
00:21:39,681 --> 00:21:42,801
Speaker 1: child growing up. And then when I had my girls,

418
00:21:43,201 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 1: they look exactly like me, and I kind of was like, Okay,

419
00:21:46,041 --> 00:21:50,400
Speaker 1: that's that box ticked. I allowed myself to think that

420
00:21:50,521 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 1: I was totally fine by the whole thing. I'm strong

421
00:21:55,001 --> 00:21:58,361
Speaker 1: like adoption didn't affect me. I had such a lovely story,

422
00:21:58,441 --> 00:22:00,441
Speaker 1: like there's no part of it that was.

423
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:01,281
Speaker 5: A problem for me.

424
00:22:02,001 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 1: But yet having kids and thinking about being able to

425
00:22:07,801 --> 00:22:11,921
Speaker 1: give the baby away, yeah, I can't imagine. And I

426
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,681
Speaker 1: like to think rach and again, this is a story

427
00:22:15,201 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 1: that I don't know whether it's true or not, but

428
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:19,120
Speaker 1: I like to think, well, when I say I like

429
00:22:19,201 --> 00:22:21,401
Speaker 1: to think, that sounds bad, but I like to think

430
00:22:21,441 --> 00:22:25,400
Speaker 1: it was a really hard decision and maybe wasn't made

431
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,961
Speaker 1: by her totally and was a bit made for her.

432
00:22:30,281 --> 00:22:31,761
Speaker 2: Is there a part of you that ever needs the

433
00:22:31,801 --> 00:22:34,721
Speaker 2: answer to that or are you comfortable in knowing your

434
00:22:34,761 --> 00:22:36,281
Speaker 2: answer and how you feel about it.

435
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 1: I definitely have moments. I have moments of thinking that

436
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:41,561
Speaker 1: would be nice.

437
00:22:41,721 --> 00:22:42,120
Speaker 3: I don't know.

438
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,801
Speaker 1: I think I'm probably still too afraid of the rejection.

439
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:48,721
Speaker 3: I have always said.

440
00:22:48,761 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't need anything else. My mum's my mum,

441
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 1: my dad's my dad. My sisters and my sister are like,

442
00:22:53,241 --> 00:22:56,521
Speaker 1: why would I need anything else? But when we look

443
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 1: at people needing to know where they've come from, yeah,

444
00:23:01,761 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 1: I'm a big believer in that. But then why have

445
00:23:04,481 --> 00:23:06,201
Speaker 1: I never felt like that for myself?

446
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,241
Speaker 5: Yeah? Well, I think that comes into a self worth peace.

447
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,761
Speaker 2: And I think, yes, you could go down the track

448
00:23:12,801 --> 00:23:14,921
Speaker 2: of rejection, but if you were to look at it,

449
00:23:15,001 --> 00:23:17,001
Speaker 2: because you're a mother, I feel like there's a part

450
00:23:17,001 --> 00:23:19,281
Speaker 2: of your heart like it would never be felled right.

451
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,201
Speaker 2: Like I remember talking to you saying the day that Gracie,

452
00:23:22,441 --> 00:23:24,521
Speaker 2: I walked you over to prep and I remember telling

453
00:23:24,521 --> 00:23:25,961
Speaker 2: you and you were like, come on, what are you doing?

454
00:23:26,041 --> 00:23:27,921
Speaker 5: You've got the day? And I was like, I can't

455
00:23:27,921 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 5: get off the couch.

456
00:23:28,681 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 2: Like I feel like someone has stretched my umbilical cord

457
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,640
Speaker 2: so far. And I know that she's just at the

458
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,041
Speaker 2: school across the road, and I know that she's fine,

459
00:23:37,521 --> 00:23:41,321
Speaker 2: but like this underlying emotion and feeling that I couldn't

460
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 2: explain was like my umbilical cord was still attached to

461
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 2: her and it couldn't stretch any further, and I was

462
00:23:47,321 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 2: incapable of leaving my couch, and I sat there with

463
00:23:50,681 --> 00:23:52,801
Speaker 2: like this cold cup of tea for majority of the day,

464
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 2: waiting and looking at the time till pass so I

465
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,521
Speaker 2: could go and pick her up again. So saying it

466
00:23:57,561 --> 00:24:00,640
Speaker 2: from that perspective of like from a mother, do you

467
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,961
Speaker 2: think there's a part of it that looks and goes.

468
00:24:03,001 --> 00:24:06,121
Speaker 2: I wonder if she still as that part of her

469
00:24:06,561 --> 00:24:09,881
Speaker 2: for the closure piece of understanding. Look at how you've

470
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,201
Speaker 2: turned out, and look where you are today, and look

471
00:24:12,241 --> 00:24:14,561
Speaker 2: at your beautiful children that you've got and the life

472
00:24:14,561 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 2: that you've created.

473
00:24:15,761 --> 00:24:19,801
Speaker 1: I would love to think that she thinks about me.

474
00:24:20,321 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 1: And I haven't even really given a thought to the

475
00:24:24,321 --> 00:24:25,601
Speaker 1: I say the dad.

476
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,360
Speaker 5: Like, no, I not right. I never speak about that.

477
00:24:29,201 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: It's a really difficult one because there's a part of

478
00:24:31,001 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: me that absolutely would love to know the whole story.

479
00:24:34,001 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 1: I guess and I do the work and I think

480
00:24:36,481 --> 00:24:38,321
Speaker 1: that I might know, and then I'm like, well, I

481
00:24:38,321 --> 00:24:41,201
Speaker 1: don't really know. I would love to know the full

482
00:24:41,281 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 1: story all the details little things Rachel, like when I

483
00:24:45,001 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: go to the doctor and they go, do you have

484
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: any family history of that?

485
00:24:47,921 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't know. I don't know any of

486
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 3: that stuff. I don't know what's hereditary.

487
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 1: And when there's a family history and I always have

488
00:24:54,521 --> 00:24:57,801
Speaker 1: to tick that kind of unknown box. I guess there's

489
00:24:57,801 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: a practical side of it too. It's like, well, be

490
00:25:00,001 --> 00:25:03,241
Speaker 1: handy to know that stuff, and it would be nice

491
00:25:03,281 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 1: to hear like, oh my goodness, I thought about you

492
00:25:05,721 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: every day, all that kind of stuff. There's also a

493
00:25:08,521 --> 00:25:11,041
Speaker 1: part of me that still feels really fiercely loyal to

494
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 1: my mum, and now she's not around, I feel like,

495
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,401
Speaker 1: as much as she would have been totally fine with it,

496
00:25:18,041 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 1: there's a part of me that feels like it's almost disloyal.

497
00:25:22,001 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is a really interesting take on it. I

498
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,801
Speaker 2: can understand and see both sides of it. Yeah, maybe

499
00:25:27,801 --> 00:25:30,321
Speaker 2: it's my personality, but I think for me I would

500
00:25:30,321 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 2: be like I need to be able to close the

501
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:32,321
Speaker 2: door on it.

502
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,121
Speaker 3: Also, I don't want another family rate, Yeah, I don't

503
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:36,521
Speaker 3: want it to all change.

504
00:25:36,681 --> 00:25:36,881
Speaker 4: Yeah.

505
00:25:36,921 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, which is fair.

506
00:25:38,441 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 2: I think it's absolutely fair, And I do think it

507
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:45,121
Speaker 2: comes down to like a personality thing of your content,

508
00:25:45,281 --> 00:25:49,361
Speaker 2: and you're happy within yourself with the story that you have.

509
00:25:49,481 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 5: Now, yeah, it doesn't mean.

510
00:25:50,761 --> 00:25:52,801
Speaker 3: It, But I don't know if I am. I don't

511
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:53,441
Speaker 3: know if I am.

512
00:25:53,921 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: I told myself a horrible story for years and years

513
00:25:57,041 --> 00:25:59,561
Speaker 1: rage well, I felt like it was a story that

514
00:25:59,681 --> 00:26:04,561
Speaker 1: as an adult I came to a realization. And then

515
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,641
Speaker 1: a few years later, after doing some work, I'm now

516
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:13,001
Speaker 1: not sure about that realization. But I used to cry

517
00:26:13,801 --> 00:26:17,561
Speaker 1: on my birthday every year as a child. I'd get presents,

518
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: and I'd get material love and birthday parties and all

519
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,281
Speaker 1: the rest of it, and I could never understand why

520
00:26:25,321 --> 00:26:27,761
Speaker 1: there was always a time on my birthday where I'd cry.

521
00:26:28,481 --> 00:26:31,321
Speaker 1: And as an adult who hadn't done any of the

522
00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:35,761
Speaker 1: work yet, I came to the realization that I always

523
00:26:35,801 --> 00:26:42,161
Speaker 1: cried on my birthday because the day I was born

524
00:26:42,321 --> 00:26:52,481
Speaker 1: was not a happy day. And then I accepted that

525
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: as I cry on my birthday because it wasn't a

526
00:26:55,201 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: happy day for people to day I was born, and

527
00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: I felt like I told myself that everybody else was

528
00:27:03,281 --> 00:27:05,041
Speaker 1: born and it was a happy day in my life,

529
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: and Dad would ecstatic and all the things and people

530
00:27:11,241 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: came around with balloons and all that stuff, and that

531
00:27:13,921 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: stuff did happen for me once my mom and dad

532
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 1: got me. It was a three month period where you

533
00:27:19,921 --> 00:27:23,281
Speaker 1: go through the adoption process, so you go to foster

534
00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:28,360
Speaker 1: homes and that kind of thing. But yeah, that's what

535
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,201
Speaker 1: I told myself. Oh yeah, I've come to this realization

536
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:34,721
Speaker 1: now I understand that. That's why I cry on my birthday.

537
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: And then since I've done the work, well I haven't

538
00:27:37,961 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: finished doing the work, like it's ongoing, but and I'm like,

539
00:27:42,961 --> 00:27:45,801
Speaker 1: it wasn't an unhappy day because the day I was

540
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,201
Speaker 1: born was the day that it was the happiest day

541
00:27:49,321 --> 00:27:53,761
Speaker 1: of my mom and dad's life. It's interesting that I

542
00:27:53,801 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: told myself that and I came to that realization and

543
00:27:56,521 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: I almost felt content with it. Oh yeah, that's the

544
00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:01,521
Speaker 1: reason why I cry my birthday. That's right.

545
00:28:01,801 --> 00:28:03,001
Speaker 5: It wasn't a happy day.

546
00:28:04,441 --> 00:28:06,561
Speaker 2: As a little kid, and going through all of the

547
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 2: stages and ages that we do as a child into

548
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 2: our adolescence into our teen years, like with all of

549
00:28:13,521 --> 00:28:16,001
Speaker 2: the added things that get thrown in with hormones and

550
00:28:16,041 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 2: all of that stuff, and not understanding feelings and why

551
00:28:19,001 --> 00:28:22,561
Speaker 2: you're feeling them and where they're coming from. I think

552
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 2: also like you didn't talk about it as much, you know,

553
00:28:25,761 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 2: going through like you and I have same age, like

554
00:28:27,721 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 2: you're going through those years you sort of were like, ah,

555
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,281
Speaker 2: just tell myself that story and I feel good, like

556
00:28:32,961 --> 00:28:35,521
Speaker 2: you know, and there's that part of you that you know,

557
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,001
Speaker 2: maybe it is easier to create the story, to tell

558
00:28:39,041 --> 00:28:42,681
Speaker 2: yourself that in order for you to then suppress the

559
00:28:42,721 --> 00:28:45,561
Speaker 2: feeling a little bit more. And that is, I would say,

560
00:28:45,881 --> 00:28:48,041
Speaker 2: is the way that we grew up, and that was

561
00:28:48,081 --> 00:28:50,161
Speaker 2: the way that we did it. I think it's now

562
00:28:50,201 --> 00:28:52,561
Speaker 2: when you start to unpack it though, that you just go,

563
00:28:53,361 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 2: I hang on a second, if we flip it, and

564
00:28:56,321 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 2: then now we're doing some work on yourself talking about it,

565
00:29:00,041 --> 00:29:02,881
Speaker 2: exploring what those feelings were, why you felt them when

566
00:29:02,921 --> 00:29:04,121
Speaker 2: you felt them.

567
00:29:04,481 --> 00:29:05,761
Speaker 5: It's really interesting.

568
00:29:05,441 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 2: Because it helps you update the schedule of like your

569
00:29:08,961 --> 00:29:11,841
Speaker 2: self worth, like if you want to put it really logically,

570
00:29:11,961 --> 00:29:15,161
Speaker 2: like it's like your self worth is here, but you've

571
00:29:15,241 --> 00:29:17,361
Speaker 2: learned about yourself, so you like nudged it up a

572
00:29:17,401 --> 00:29:19,081
Speaker 2: little bit and then you go, actually, you know what,

573
00:29:19,881 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 2: it was a happy day because without being born on

574
00:29:22,761 --> 00:29:26,321
Speaker 2: that day, my parents would never have had me and

575
00:29:26,441 --> 00:29:29,761
Speaker 2: you know, with adoption, in my mind from someone that

576
00:29:30,361 --> 00:29:33,641
Speaker 2: looks in from the outside, I think automatically, oh, they

577
00:29:33,681 --> 00:29:37,521
Speaker 2: would have abandonment issues for sure, because any baby that

578
00:29:37,641 --> 00:29:40,761
Speaker 2: gets left behind from the parents that choose to give

579
00:29:40,801 --> 00:29:45,801
Speaker 2: them up or maybe just physically are unable to raise

580
00:29:45,841 --> 00:29:49,321
Speaker 2: a child. You know, there's that part of like, oh,

581
00:29:49,361 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 2: that'd abandonment for sure, Like I wasn't even adopted and

582
00:29:52,481 --> 00:29:56,121
Speaker 2: I have abandonment issues. Talking with you and then learning

583
00:29:56,161 --> 00:29:59,321
Speaker 2: about adoption and then understanding it from a mothering point

584
00:29:59,321 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 2: of view of like, you know, I sort of flip

585
00:30:02,241 --> 00:30:04,761
Speaker 2: it and see that other side of going without the

586
00:30:04,761 --> 00:30:07,761
Speaker 2: adopt option, you wouldn't have had the love and you

587
00:30:07,761 --> 00:30:11,681
Speaker 2: wouldn't have created love because you didn't even know coming

588
00:30:11,721 --> 00:30:13,641
Speaker 2: into this world that you were going to create love.

589
00:30:13,681 --> 00:30:18,641
Speaker 2: Because you did, you fulfilled two people's lives more than

590
00:30:18,681 --> 00:30:21,881
Speaker 2: you'll ever understand it or know because you were born.

591
00:30:23,081 --> 00:30:25,081
Speaker 2: But for you to be able to see that, I

592
00:30:25,081 --> 00:30:27,361
Speaker 2: guess you know that's trying to flip it from like

593
00:30:28,161 --> 00:30:32,561
Speaker 2: not a negative but like heavy Sometimes you feel like

594
00:30:32,641 --> 00:30:36,841
Speaker 2: it's unprocessable feelings of like you know that abandonment stuff,

595
00:30:36,881 --> 00:30:39,841
Speaker 2: it's weighted, and you go if I was to flip

596
00:30:39,921 --> 00:30:41,401
Speaker 2: it and put a positive on it. What would it

597
00:30:41,441 --> 00:30:45,201
Speaker 2: be my positive to your that feeling would be love?

598
00:30:45,641 --> 00:30:49,921
Speaker 2: Like without your biological mum, how we see it and

599
00:30:49,961 --> 00:30:53,041
Speaker 2: what we say abandoning you, you wouldn't.

600
00:30:52,681 --> 00:30:54,441
Speaker 5: Have felt loved like you were.

601
00:30:54,521 --> 00:30:57,841
Speaker 2: You wouldn't have created love for your parents that got

602
00:30:57,881 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 2: to raise you. And even though it was like a

603
00:31:00,481 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 2: real hardship of growing up, I think within hardship, you know,

604
00:31:04,321 --> 00:31:06,921
Speaker 2: diamonds are made like with that raff, a little bit

605
00:31:06,961 --> 00:31:08,161
Speaker 2: of raft, the diamonds are made.

606
00:31:08,201 --> 00:31:09,641
Speaker 5: And now look at you.

607
00:31:09,641 --> 00:31:12,401
Speaker 2: You know, just speaking about it now, Katie and opening

608
00:31:12,401 --> 00:31:16,201
Speaker 2: a conversation about it would just help so many people.

609
00:31:16,481 --> 00:31:17,641
Speaker 3: When you talk about love.

610
00:31:18,041 --> 00:31:21,841
Speaker 1: It's funny because I flew back to England a few

611
00:31:21,921 --> 00:31:24,321
Speaker 1: years ago. The girls were little, and I went over

612
00:31:24,361 --> 00:31:27,201
Speaker 1: on my own and my dad picked me up from

613
00:31:27,241 --> 00:31:30,081
Speaker 1: the airport and he said, oh, how are you feeling

614
00:31:30,121 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: about leaving? The guy said, oh, I just feel terrible

615
00:31:32,481 --> 00:31:34,561
Speaker 1: for leaving the girls, like I feel like they are

616
00:31:34,681 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: so far away from me. And he turned around and

617
00:31:38,441 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: he went, oh, now you know how I feel.

618
00:31:41,241 --> 00:31:43,561
Speaker 3: And I was like, what.

619
00:31:44,841 --> 00:31:49,121
Speaker 1: That's like again, it's that whole what that's such a

620
00:31:49,161 --> 00:31:49,721
Speaker 1: weird thing.

621
00:31:49,761 --> 00:31:52,121
Speaker 3: For you to say it's like and it wasn't.

622
00:31:52,241 --> 00:31:55,401
Speaker 1: It was like, but I was so surprised that he

623
00:31:55,481 --> 00:31:57,841
Speaker 1: felt like that, Yeah, of course your dad's going to

624
00:31:57,881 --> 00:32:00,041
Speaker 1: be upset that you move across the other side of

625
00:32:00,081 --> 00:32:02,241
Speaker 1: the world and need didn't see you anymore. But why

626
00:32:02,321 --> 00:32:05,001
Speaker 1: was that such a shock to me? My whole life,

627
00:32:05,201 --> 00:32:07,881
Speaker 1: I've had friends and I've never felt like I'm as

628
00:32:07,921 --> 00:32:11,561
Speaker 1: good as them. Always we talk about this is just

629
00:32:11,561 --> 00:32:14,521
Speaker 1: a thing that we do as you know, females is oh,

630
00:32:14,601 --> 00:32:17,841
Speaker 1: she is prettier or she looks better, and you compare

631
00:32:17,921 --> 00:32:20,801
Speaker 1: yourself and yeah, one of the things that was really

632
00:32:20,801 --> 00:32:25,801
Speaker 1: interesting to me was the never feeling as good as

633
00:32:25,881 --> 00:32:30,361
Speaker 1: anybody else. And since I've done some work on you know,

634
00:32:30,441 --> 00:32:34,841
Speaker 1: adoption and the rest of it, it's like shifted, Yeah,

635
00:32:34,881 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: and I'm here for a reason, Like I've started to

636
00:32:37,241 --> 00:32:39,561
Speaker 1: believe that I'm here for a resolutely. I used to

637
00:32:39,641 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: think it was just, you know, because it was nineteen

638
00:32:41,761 --> 00:32:44,561
Speaker 1: eighty three that you were lucky enough to get adopted,

639
00:32:44,601 --> 00:32:47,121
Speaker 1: because otherwise you wouldn't have even been born.

640
00:32:47,801 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 2: Well, I think at the end of the day, what

641
00:32:49,321 --> 00:32:51,561
Speaker 2: it is is your ideals shift and then the way

642
00:32:51,601 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 2: that you like sort of look at things, has the

643
00:32:53,521 --> 00:32:55,841
Speaker 2: ability to shift because of weight that you're not carrying

644
00:32:56,361 --> 00:32:57,641
Speaker 2: their emotional baggage.

645
00:32:57,681 --> 00:33:00,641
Speaker 5: Like people laugh about it and go, emotion what emotional baggage?

646
00:33:00,681 --> 00:33:04,601
Speaker 2: I don't have any, Like it's wild, but we all

647
00:33:05,081 --> 00:33:08,841
Speaker 2: internally carry some form of baggage. And when you're ready

648
00:33:09,281 --> 00:33:12,681
Speaker 2: to let that go, it provides you so much more

649
00:33:12,761 --> 00:33:16,201
Speaker 2: room and opportunity to be able to expand into who

650
00:33:16,241 --> 00:33:19,841
Speaker 2: you really are here to be. Yeah, and you sort

651
00:33:19,841 --> 00:33:21,481
Speaker 2: of stand in your own and you hold your own.

652
00:33:21,521 --> 00:33:23,401
Speaker 2: So we can only say thank you for sharing your

653
00:33:23,441 --> 00:33:26,961
Speaker 2: story as much as it makes me so bloody terry

654
00:33:27,041 --> 00:33:29,441
Speaker 2: every time, because I think you know each and every

655
00:33:29,441 --> 00:33:31,841
Speaker 2: one of us have that little part of like our

656
00:33:32,281 --> 00:33:34,561
Speaker 2: child that goes. No one wants to be lonely. No

657
00:33:34,561 --> 00:33:38,801
Speaker 2: one wants to feel unloved. So thanks for sharing, Thanks

658
00:33:38,801 --> 00:33:40,001
Speaker 2: for talking about openly,