Speaker 1: Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bromwin contains coarse
Speaker 1: language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to
Speaker 1: you by Me Headley Thomas and The Australian. Of course,
Speaker 1: I know about your former marriage to John Winfield, all right,
Speaker 1: I've actually read your police statement and I was wondering
Speaker 1: if I could have a chat to you, an interview
Speaker 1: with you about John and whether you've got anything that
Speaker 1: might be helpful in this investigation of an alleged murder.
Speaker 2: He was just if you walk down the street, he
Speaker 2: accuse you of looking at other blokes and just all
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: In the days after the release of episode two in
Speaker 1: this podcast series, John Winfield's second wife agreed to speak
Speaker 1: to me about her brief marriage to the man suspected
Speaker 1: by police of having murdered his third wife, Bromwin. John
Speaker 1: emphatically denies any involvement in foul play, and he has
Speaker 1: never been charged over Bronwan's disappearance. In nineteen ninety three,
Speaker 1: he told me in an email that Bromman's family has
Speaker 1: a history of mental illness. Over the years, John has
Speaker 1: told friends and others who ask about Broman's disappearance that
Speaker 1: she was mentally unstable. Bromwan's family and friends completely reject
Speaker 1: those claims. They say it's John's cover story to try
Speaker 1: to deflect from.
Speaker 3: What they accuse him of having done to Bromwin. Now.
Speaker 1: John's second wife has been closely following what is coming
Speaker 1: out in this podcast series. When I spoke to her
Speaker 1: for the first time, she said, I.
Speaker 2: Just actually was babysitting my grandson today and I was
Speaker 2: listening to the two episodes that you did. We had
Speaker 2: a happy relationship, but from what I've heard today, it
Speaker 2: sounded like they didn't have very happy relationship at all for.
Speaker 4: A long time.
Speaker 3: Why did you split up? Then?
Speaker 2: Because he was possessive, Like if I was walked down
Speaker 2: the street, he would say, why are you looking at
Speaker 2: that guy? I felt like it couldn't look sideways like
Speaker 2: what Bromin's obviously said too.
Speaker 4: So it was just accusing you of looking at other men.
Speaker 2: And I think that's what sort of greats on you
Speaker 2: after a while, because you're so devoted. So who was
Speaker 2: telling you that you're looking at other people?
Speaker 5: And you're not.
Speaker 4: If anyone does that, they must be insecure.
Speaker 1: And there'd been no issues in your relationship and shit
Speaker 1: that could have caused him to believe that you would
Speaker 1: be looking at other guds.
Speaker 4: No, I loved him so much.
Speaker 3: Have you stayed in touch with him?
Speaker 4: No? No, definitely not.
Speaker 1: I'm giving John's second wife a name which is not
Speaker 1: her real name, but this is her voice.
Speaker 4: Because I don't want my name anywhere in there.
Speaker 1: What about I just say that when you were married
Speaker 1: to John, you're a much younger woman, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to call you D as in DA. Back then you
Speaker 1: were d Winfield. And now you've remarried, and we won't
Speaker 1: say what your new married name is.
Speaker 3: Okay, yep.
Speaker 2: I got three girls and they didn't even know I
Speaker 2: was married until little while ago to John.
Speaker 1: They were together as husband and wife for just eighteen months,
Speaker 1: and d wants to stress a few important things. John
Speaker 1: did not harm her physically. He did not raise a
Speaker 1: fist to strike her, nor put his hands around her
Speaker 1: throat and squeeze, he told me, and he didn't threaten
Speaker 1: her with violence.
Speaker 4: He was never violent to me. I know, I wasn't
Speaker 4: fearful of him. He was still possessive. But that's about all.
Speaker 2: Because I didn't know anything about them until today when
Speaker 2: I was listening to that those two.
Speaker 3: What are they called episodes?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do remember I tore all my photos up
Speaker 2: with my old boyfriends.
Speaker 4: When I looked back on it, like I tore all my.
Speaker 2: Photos up that had other boyfriends in it kept me
Speaker 2: and then I had to tew away the other ones
Speaker 2: with the ex boyfriends in it. Obviously I didn't do
Speaker 2: that on my own back, sharing the ex boyfriend outfit
Speaker 2: and throwing them away.
Speaker 1: And when you said you couldn't have done that off
Speaker 1: your own bat, what do you mean.
Speaker 4: I must have felt that I did it for him.
Speaker 4: I mean, all of a sudden I realized I hadn't
Speaker 4: gone out with the girls with girlfriends or anything. It's
Speaker 4: not the news that we were together.
Speaker 2: And then I suppose you just realize then you think, God,
Speaker 2: don't think this is that healthiest.
Speaker 4: But we were young.
Speaker 1: De grew up in the shire around Cranala, south of
Speaker 1: Sydney too, and although d didn't serve, she was often
Speaker 1: at the beach.
Speaker 2: John being a good surfer, we even had like a
Speaker 2: little surf shop down at Kraa that we started with
Speaker 2: John and I.
Speaker 4: And then we saw that we moved up the coast
Speaker 4: and you moved.
Speaker 3: To Lennox Head with him.
Speaker 2: Yes, we had a good time up there that we
Speaker 2: actually built a house up at Sandstone Present, and then
Speaker 2: when we separated, he went back up there and built.
Speaker 4: A house a couple of hours up. Last night, I
Speaker 4: tried to google it to see because I know what
Speaker 4: it looks like.
Speaker 3: Did you do some laboring there yourself, D?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I used to help, used to help build some
Speaker 2: hours of bricks in. I was there every day with you,
Speaker 2: and then we moved the car ran up to the
Speaker 2: block of land.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about what you're hearing and reading now?
Speaker 2: Just brings back memories and plus I feel sorry for
Speaker 2: someone and their children not having each other.
Speaker 3: Nobody's heard from her for thirty one years.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's so sad.
Speaker 2: I know the family would be really'll be devastating for
Speaker 2: them just not knowing where she is or what happened.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can't imagine it, can You? No guarantee that
Speaker 4: for all those years.
Speaker 1: I have D's brief written statement to police. She made
Speaker 1: it in nineteen ninety eight during Detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor's investigation.
Speaker 1: And then you say John was quite bitter about the
Speaker 1: settlement following our.
Speaker 5: Separation because he had to sell the house.
Speaker 3: What did he want to see happen?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 2: No, we separated, so then I had to go for settlement.
Speaker 2: And I've always been a saver and I had money.
Speaker 2: And what I put into the house is only what
Speaker 2: I took out. I wasn't taking more than what I
Speaker 2: actually put in.
Speaker 1: You say John didn't want to give me anything? No, well,
Speaker 1: how would that have worked out?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: Well that's why I had to go. I went to
Speaker 2: court to get a settlement.
Speaker 1: I had to get a solicitor and go to court
Speaker 1: to get my share of the property.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we went to court and it was sort of
Speaker 4: out in court.
Speaker 3: When did you last see John at court?
Speaker 4: When we got our settlement.
Speaker 2: It took me like a little while to try and
Speaker 2: get a divorce from him. I try and save him
Speaker 2: the papers and he wouldn't take them. Eventually happened, and
Speaker 2: then I moved on.
Speaker 1: And do you one thing I can't quite grasp yet
Speaker 1: is why does a marriage fail if really just one
Speaker 1: partner seems a bit possessive?
Speaker 3: Can't you work through that?
Speaker 4: I don't know. I can't remember.
Speaker 3: You've kept it quiet from your own daughters. Why is that.
Speaker 2: Just because it was in the past and it was
Speaker 2: nothing to do with my life anymore.
Speaker 1: After the separation, John met Bromwin and John's future third wife,
Speaker 1: Bronwin met John's estranged second wife de at a mutual
Speaker 1: friend's barbecue in a coastal town.
Speaker 2: I was down at a barbecue in Aladallah with my
Speaker 2: girlfriend and it was at one of her friend's houses,
Speaker 2: and Bronman was actually there, and I got introduced to
Speaker 2: her that night, and she was asking me all questions
Speaker 2: about why I just spreit up with my husband. I
Speaker 2: just remember telling her that he was possessive and just
Speaker 2: I felt like you didn't trust you, and that wears
Speaker 2: on you after a while, and you know you're not
Speaker 2: going to do anything to creap that trust.
Speaker 4: I didn't know who she was and I'd never seen
Speaker 4: her again.
Speaker 1: When the police contacted you, were you surprised, Yeah, yes
Speaker 1: I was. Had you heard about Broman having been missing
Speaker 1: for several years by then?
Speaker 5: Yes? I did.
Speaker 1: Did you have any views about her disappearance before the
Speaker 1: police spoke to you.
Speaker 4: I thought, well, he won't be happy about losing another house.
Speaker 4: I thought if something actually had.
Speaker 2: Happened to her, that maybe he had pushed her maybe
Speaker 2: had been killed accidentally, Like some people can push somewhere
Speaker 2: and then they hit their head and they didn't mean
Speaker 2: to do it, but they've done it.
Speaker 4: That was the thought that went through my mind.
Speaker 1: Most people in Lenox who know Ian Gluis call him
Speaker 1: something else.
Speaker 3: If you're scruffy, Yeah, supposedly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He hasn't had anything to do with John for three decades,
Speaker 1: but in the early nineteen nineties, when Scruffy was managing
Speaker 1: large concreting jobs.
Speaker 3: He got to know John Well.
Speaker 6: They worked together, clean work, clean for organized site and
Speaker 6: a trade fman you could respect and recommend to other people.
Speaker 3: It's a hard worker, yeah, hard worker.
Speaker 1: They shared rides to and from job sites because Scruffy
Speaker 1: would come by the house in Sandstone Crescent to pick
Speaker 1: John up and drive him home again, and Scruffy's wife,
Speaker 1: Maria had become friendly with Bromwin. When I visited at
Speaker 1: his home in Lennox, he told me he's still concreting,
Speaker 1: helping his daughter with her nearby house. As we sat
Speaker 1: on his patio, a vast concrete structure with a gurgling
Speaker 1: water feature off to the side, he remembered John Well,
Speaker 1: although he hasn't seen him for years.
Speaker 6: Good looking rooster served yet met him a playgroup. Nice family,
Speaker 6: didn't drink much or at all, and I was on
Speaker 6: good speaking terms of John. Did you become good mate? Well,
Speaker 6: a small town and I was never in his pocket.
Speaker 3: We did a few barbecues.
Speaker 6: Down the lake together and the.
Speaker 3: Kids got on well.
Speaker 6: And then the more I got to know him and
Speaker 6: started to see some parts of his character that I
Speaker 6: thought was a bit strange, I sort of found there
Speaker 6: was another sign to him. I'm not a psychiatrist or psychologist,
Speaker 6: but God picked up on the vibe very quickly, very quickly,
Speaker 6: and he didn't.
Speaker 3: He just thought I was scrapping the concrete.
Speaker 6: I noticed a side where which I didn't think it
Speaker 6: was too good, where he's very aimble about his house.
Speaker 6: Maybe was disordered when someone's got to OCD ordered his
Speaker 6: when he spoke at home. The kids weren't like a
Speaker 6: normal family, you know what I mean. They were too,
Speaker 6: very scared because he was very sort of controlling most
Speaker 6: of the time.
Speaker 3: You went to the house and saw that I was.
Speaker 6: One of the few people that actually ever went to
Speaker 6: the house. Not many people went inside the house.
Speaker 3: I actually started.
Speaker 6: Taking him to work, and then because of the nature
Speaker 6: of the crew.
Speaker 3: That I had working for me.
Speaker 6: I actually went to the trouble of warning them one
Speaker 6: day when John wasn't about, and I said, be very
Speaker 6: careful about John steel Waters run deep. I said, he
Speaker 6: actually hates people that spoke drugs, which they all preparably did.
Speaker 6: I was about the only one that didn't. But I said,
Speaker 6: he'll pretend to be.
Speaker 3: One of you lot.
Speaker 6: But I said, he's down on the whole head of
Speaker 6: things that's parted drinking drugs. He's very prutish, very controlling
Speaker 6: with his missus. Further down the track, when things were
Speaker 6: starting to get a little bit rocky, they were still
Speaker 6: living as a family unit, but they were not a
Speaker 6: happy couple, and he said, this is my last house Ruby.
Speaker 6: He said he had to sell the other two when
Speaker 6: the relationships broke down. He had to settle the relationship.
Speaker 6: And he said, I'm not doing that again. I'm not
Speaker 6: selling this place and flog the family home to square
Speaker 6: things up.
Speaker 3: That's not happening. It's not on.
Speaker 1: How confident are you that that's what he said.
Speaker 6: I'm very confident that I'm not inventing the story. He
Speaker 6: just said that he'd had to was forced to sell
Speaker 6: the previous too, and there was no way in the
Speaker 6: world that this one, no matter what went down, that
Speaker 6: he was selling this one.
Speaker 1: Gruffy recalled seeing Bromwyn after she had separated from John.
Speaker 1: The Byron Street townhouse she had moved into with her
Speaker 1: girls was just a few doors down from Scruffy and
Speaker 1: Maria's family home. The children played together after school when
Speaker 1: Bromwyn would stop by on the way back to the townhouse.
Speaker 6: We lived directly partently opposite the school, and she had
Speaker 6: to walk past our place to get down to the
Speaker 6: service station.
Speaker 3: She lived at the Ennis, So there.
Speaker 6: In those days of town wasn't anywhere near gentrified it
Speaker 6: is now, with all the professional buggers worming their way
Speaker 6: in the place and millions of dollars to old houses.
Speaker 6: She would drop in and have a coffee ordered with
Speaker 6: Marie at the kitchen table on.
Speaker 3: Her way home, and still let her hearten.
Speaker 6: She said to Marie at the time, people have no
Speaker 6: idea of the depth of his anger when he gets angry,
Speaker 6: and I'd already sort of picked the vibe up warning
Speaker 6: the blokes.
Speaker 1: In Maria's statement to Detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety eight, she said she would see Bromwin on a
Speaker 1: daily basis, and they became a lot closer after the
Speaker 1: move to Byron Street.
Speaker 3: These are Maria's words, it's not her voice.
Speaker 7: While they were living in the flat, they all appeared
Speaker 7: to be much happier, and Bronwin didn't appear to be
Speaker 7: suffering from the stress like when she was living with John.
Speaker 7: Bromnin would often tell me that John was wringing her
Speaker 7: nightly from Sydney, and she thought that he was checking
Speaker 7: up on her. She was extremely concerned by his phone calls,
Speaker 7: and she was very worried that he was trying to
Speaker 7: take the children from her. She got to the stage
Speaker 7: where she would not go out at night because of
Speaker 7: John's phone calls, and she would stay at home the calls,
Speaker 7: fearing that if she didn't, it would give him more
Speaker 7: ammunition to attempt to take the children from her. Bronwin
Speaker 7: also told me that John had told her that he
Speaker 7: would do anything he had to do to keep the house,
Speaker 7: and that he'd already lost two houses to other women
Speaker 7: and was not about to lose this one.
Speaker 1: One of Bromwinn's townhouse neighbors was Alan Fisher, and like Bromwin,
Speaker 1: he rented his place from the owner and landlady, Shirley Taylor.
Speaker 1: When he gave a statement to the police detective Glenn
Speaker 1: Taylor in nineteen ninety eight, Alan remembered Bromwin's care for
Speaker 1: her children. These are his words from his sigence statement.
Speaker 1: It's not his voice.
Speaker 8: Bromwin appeared to be a very devoted mother. I did
Speaker 8: notice that she kept a very watchful eye on her
Speaker 8: two children. Bromwin was not the type to leave her
Speaker 8: kids for even five minutes. I remember on one occasion,
Speaker 8: which was a number of weeks after Bromin had moved
Speaker 8: into the flat, when Bromwin came to the back of
Speaker 8: my unit. At that time, I was in the backyard.
Speaker 8: I remember this was on the third day before she
Speaker 8: went missing. I recall Bromin saying to me, I hope
Speaker 8: you didn't hear all that commotion. I said, I didn't
Speaker 8: hear anything. Broman said, I've just had a hell of
Speaker 8: an argument over the phone with my husband. He's coming
Speaker 8: down tomorrow and I'm terrified about what he might do.
Speaker 8: I said something along the lines of, oh, is it
Speaker 8: that bad. I then said to her that my son
Speaker 8: and I were going to put some security doors on
Speaker 8: all the units. Broumman told me that putting the security
Speaker 8: doors up would probably help. Bromin seemed to be very
Speaker 8: upset at the time and looked worried. It was later
Speaker 8: that same afternoon my son came over and we put
Speaker 8: security doors on all of the units. I remember Bromin
Speaker 8: thanking me for the trouble, and I gave her a
Speaker 8: key for the security door.
Speaker 1: The following day, Alan returned to Biown Street about three
Speaker 1: pm and he saw a vehicle with a trailer in
Speaker 1: the driveway. He saw Bromwin and he asked her what
Speaker 1: was happening.
Speaker 8: Bromwin then told me that she was moving out. I said,
Speaker 8: how did you go with your husband? Broman said it
Speaker 8: was better than I thought. He's agreed to let us
Speaker 8: move back into the family home.
Speaker 1: Bromwan and Allan spoke for a short time about how
Speaker 1: she would be saving her money rather than spending it
Speaker 1: on rent, and he offered to help her lift heavy
Speaker 1: items onto the trailer.
Speaker 8: Bromwin said that she was only taking what she could
Speaker 8: with the ute and the trailight and was going to
Speaker 8: come back and get the rest of it at a
Speaker 8: later time.
Speaker 1: Another witness, Desiree Flood lived in the adjoining townhouse next
Speaker 1: to Bromwin's. She recalled talking to Bromman about four or
Speaker 1: five o'clock in the afternoon, and she believed that it
Speaker 1: was on the fateful day of Sunday, May sixteenth, just
Speaker 1: hours before the last known sighting of Bromwin. Desiree was
Speaker 1: tracked down by Detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor five years later
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety eight, and this is what she put
Speaker 1: in her signed statement, again her words, but not her voice.
Speaker 9: The reason I believe it was on the Sunday was
Speaker 9: because we usually spent Sundays at home. On the Saturdays,
Speaker 9: I used to visit my parents and stayed for dinner.
Speaker 9: So I do not believe it was on the Saturday.
Speaker 9: I remember I was at home and my husband and
Speaker 9: I were doing some gardening and I saw Bronwyn come
Speaker 9: out of her unit with a cup of coffee in
Speaker 9: her hand. Bronwyn came out to where we were standing.
Speaker 9: I started talking to Bronwyn, and I remember her saying
Speaker 9: something like I'm moving back to my home and my
Speaker 9: husband is moving to Sydney. Bronwyn seemed to be happy
Speaker 9: with this arrangement. I started talking to Bronwyn about general things.
Speaker 9: At one point, she said, tonight, my husband is coming down,
Speaker 9: and if you hear a commotion, just ignore it. I
Speaker 9: took this to mean that Bronwyn's husband was coming to
Speaker 9: the flat. This was the first time that I had
Speaker 9: ever spoken to Bronwyn on a personal basis. I recalled
Speaker 9: that Bronwyn seemed to be a bit apprehensive about the
Speaker 9: prospect of her husband coming over. It was within days
Speaker 9: of this conversation with Bronwyn that I found out she
Speaker 9: had gone missing. The landlady Shirley Taylor and myself were
Speaker 9: quite surprised that she had left so much of her
Speaker 9: property in the flat. The only other information I have
Speaker 9: is that I remember that with In a couple of
Speaker 9: weeks after Bronwyn moved into the flat, I spoke to her.
Speaker 9: Bronman's car, which was a white Falcon Sedan, was blocking
Speaker 9: the driveway and I had to ask her to move it.
Speaker 9: I saw that Bronwyin had what appeared to be blackberuising
Speaker 9: around her left eye. Bronwin had her sunglasses on and
Speaker 9: looked like she had make up around her eye.
Speaker 1: Alan Fisher and Desiree Flood both recall being told by
Speaker 1: Bromwin that her husband was coming back. It seems likely
Speaker 1: that Bromwin and John talked about it on the phone
Speaker 1: before he flew from Sydney.
Speaker 3: To Ballina on Sunday afternoon.
Speaker 1: If they had an initial plan to meet at the
Speaker 1: townhouse on Byron Street, it probably changed to a meeting
Speaker 1: instead at the family home on Sandstone Crescent. In the
Speaker 1: next episode, we're going to deal with some of John's
Speaker 1: trip back to Lennox and to the house that Sunday evening.
Speaker 9: From my observations of her, she was very close to
Speaker 9: the children and protective of them. I even noticed that
Speaker 9: she wouldn't allow the children to play outside the fence
Speaker 9: of the unit unless she was there with them. I
Speaker 9: find it extraordinary that Bronwin would leave her kids and
Speaker 9: have no further contact with them.
Speaker 1: She had a male friend called Gary Jackson, and it
Speaker 1: seems Bromman was hopeful they might be suited to each other.
Speaker 1: He's known as Jacko, and he's been in indirect contact
Speaker 1: for this podcast because he remains close to Robin Shanahan.
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety eight, he was interviewed by the detective
Speaker 1: Sergeant Glen Taylor, who took a written statement from Jacko.
Speaker 1: Gary Jackson explained that he had met John Winfield in
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two when John was building a house for
Speaker 1: Robin Shanahan and her then husband Peter. These are his
Speaker 1: words from that statement. It's not Jacko's voice.
Speaker 10: I decided to help, so I labored for John and
Speaker 10: was his brickies laborer.
Speaker 1: Gary went to New Zealand for nine months after completing
Speaker 1: the house. He returned in March nineteen ninety three, the
Speaker 1: same month Broman separated from John.
Speaker 10: Within a day or two of arriving in Lennox Head,
Speaker 10: I went to Eden's Takeaway and I saw Bronwin Winfield there.
Speaker 10: Bronwin asked me to meet her after work, and she
Speaker 10: asked me to meet her at the surf club.
Speaker 3: Broman arrived in her car the white Ford Falcon.
Speaker 10: She told me that she had seen a tarot reader
Speaker 10: and he told her that some tall guy who was
Speaker 10: a Sagittarius would return to her life. She had obviously
Speaker 10: formed the opinion that this person was me. She told
Speaker 10: me that she had left John not long before and
Speaker 10: had taken a flat on her own. We sat on
Speaker 10: the beach and spoke for about half an hour, and
Speaker 10: then I went home.
Speaker 1: Over the next couple of days, he recalled Broman telephoned
Speaker 1: Robin and Peter's house several times because that's where Jacko
Speaker 1: was staying. He went to her flat and he saw
Speaker 1: Broman and her two girls. A couple of days after
Speaker 1: they spoke on the sand at the beach. He said
Speaker 1: that while he was there, Bromwyn told.
Speaker 10: Him John had been constantly harassing her on the phone
Speaker 10: and wanted her to go back to the house. She
Speaker 10: said that he would ring her up and when she
Speaker 10: terminated the call, he wouldn't hang his phone up, and
Speaker 10: this would leave the line open. She told me he
Speaker 10: did this on purpose, so that she could not.
Speaker 3: Use her phone.
Speaker 10: She also told me that he would often sit out
Speaker 10: the front of her house in his car and sit
Speaker 10: there for lengthy periods, watching the flat. She also said
Speaker 10: that whenever she walked down the street to go to
Speaker 10: the shops, he would follow her and was generally stalking her.
Speaker 3: I only saw her on.
Speaker 10: About three or four occasions, and during those times she
Speaker 10: told me that she was concerned and that John was
Speaker 10: continually harassing her on the phone, sitting near her flat
Speaker 10: and following her.
Speaker 1: There is, in my view, a strong Ring of Truth
Speaker 1: and what Bromwin is said to have told Gary Jackson
Speaker 1: did appear to be keenly interested in Jacko. Other friends
Speaker 1: have confirmed that she liked him. Telling him about an
Speaker 1: apparently obsessive husband was probably not going to help her
Speaker 1: prospects in forming any relationship with Jacko, yet she told
Speaker 1: him anyway. Her need to disclose John's behavior was important.
Speaker 1: Perhaps she wanted a partner and a protector, but Jacko
Speaker 1: understood that things might get messy.
Speaker 10: I would only visit Bromin during daylight hours because I
Speaker 10: didn't want to be implicated in their problems, and I
Speaker 10: didn't want to be used as a pawn in any
Speaker 10: divorce proceedings.
Speaker 1: He went back to New Zealand in late April, and
Speaker 1: that's a couple of weeks before Bromwin vanished. He didn't
Speaker 1: see or hear from her again. Here's Broman's brother, Andy
Speaker 1: Reid and his wife Michelle, recounting conversations John.
Speaker 11: Was in contact with us, because I remember he rang
Speaker 11: one time and had this cry conversation with me, which
Speaker 11: turned out to be the fellow that ended up going
Speaker 11: across to New Zealand.
Speaker 12: And Jacko was a friend of the people that a'm
Speaker 12: the takeaway shop that Broman used to work there and
Speaker 12: he gave her a left home.
Speaker 3: So because he'd given her a left.
Speaker 12: Home on a motorbike, all of a sudden, John's ringing me, Oh,
Speaker 12: she's galla there and around ten and she's in another
Speaker 12: relationship with some blake. She's on the back of a motorbike.
Speaker 3: He was very flustered about that.
Speaker 12: He didn't handle that well because Brom would a ring
Speaker 12: me and say, oh, John's up parked up the road
Speaker 12: Byron Street after the spotting, after John had rung and
Speaker 12: obviously there must have been some confrontation because Brin had
Speaker 12: rung me to say I was accusing me of have
Speaker 12: a relationship and.
Speaker 13: Didn't she also say something about him turning up at
Speaker 13: the Byron Street unit and banging on the door.
Speaker 1: I hope to talk to Gary Jackson directly for this podcast.
Speaker 1: Here's Robin Shanahan again.
Speaker 14: We catch up for lunch once a month or so
Speaker 14: because he's the father of my fourth child.
Speaker 4: Did you know that?
Speaker 15: Oh?
Speaker 3: No, I didn't know that.
Speaker 14: Jack has always been a very very very close friend
Speaker 14: and he's godfather to my three daughters.
Speaker 4: When Peter left, JACKO sort.
Speaker 14: Of stepped in to support me and the girls when
Speaker 14: my marriage Pasha. A couple of years later, I had Abby,
Speaker 14: but Jack and we only last a couple of years,
Speaker 14: but we still talk to each other sorow.
Speaker 1: I've read his evidence as well, and I know he
Speaker 1: was just a friend to Broman and giving her a
Speaker 1: bit of support.
Speaker 3: That's the impression I got. Anyway, he was he.
Speaker 14: Still is a nice man, and I think Roman did
Speaker 14: find that with Jacko.
Speaker 3: He is Megan Reid Roman's cousin.
Speaker 5: I'm your bet, Jacko.
Speaker 16: He was just a mate.
Speaker 17: After she'd left John. He used to come around and
Speaker 17: just chat to her. He liked as a friend only.
Speaker 17: And you hear John talking about how she was seen
Speaker 17: riding around Lennox said, in the back of a motorbike,
Speaker 17: and he claimed it was probably him that she went
Speaker 17: off with.
Speaker 1: Well, no, Gary Jackson was quickly and sensibly ruled out
Speaker 1: by police as a person of interest in Broman's disappearance.
Speaker 1: Kelly O'Brien is well known in the Lenox community as
Speaker 1: a surfer and a leader of healthy pursuits for children.
Speaker 1: She worked at Eden's Takeaway. She spoke to the detective
Speaker 1: Glenn Taylor in nineteen ninety eight, Kelly remembered Bromman as
Speaker 1: bright and friendly. Kelly suggested in her signed statement back
Speaker 1: then that Bromwin had emotional problems concerning her marriage. Kelly
Speaker 1: added that while she had heard rumors of John having
Speaker 1: an explosive temper, in her words, she had not witnessed anything.
Speaker 18: He was a very homely person and was not at
Speaker 18: all sociable. I often saw him with his children, and
Speaker 18: I got the opinion that he was a good father.
Speaker 1: But Kelly noted a change in Bromwin about a fortnight
Speaker 1: before she disappeared.
Speaker 18: She would often cry over very small things and would
Speaker 18: always be talking about herself and wrapped up in her
Speaker 18: own little world. She would often waffle on about things,
Speaker 18: and she appeared to be stressing out over her marriage breakdown.
Speaker 18: I was aware that she went to see a clairvoyant
Speaker 18: who goes by the name pen Dragon. After believing everything
Speaker 18: the clairvoyant had told her, Bronwin thought that Jacko was
Speaker 18: her night in Shining Armor.
Speaker 1: Kelly recalled the newly single mother appearing to be under
Speaker 1: a great deal of stress.
Speaker 18: She wanted to do the best thing for herself and
Speaker 18: the children, but more so for the children She was
Speaker 18: advised that it was important that she lived in the
Speaker 18: house because she and the children needed the space and
Speaker 18: it would have been better in respect of a property settlement.
Speaker 1: When Kelly went to a birthday party on Saturday night,
Speaker 1: May fifteen, about twenty four hours before Bromwyn disappeared, she
Speaker 1: saw Bromwyn there.
Speaker 18: She was flitting from one group of people to another
Speaker 18: and sort of laughing and giggling to herself for no reason.
Speaker 18: She had only a couple of drinks, so it wasn't
Speaker 18: the alcohol that made her act strangely. Bronwin was attempting
Speaker 18: to seek everyone's attention at the party, but most people
Speaker 18: avoided being too involved with her because everyone was sort
Speaker 18: of fed up with hearing about her life and marriage problems.
Speaker 1: However, Kelly did not for a moment believe that Bromwyn
Speaker 1: would have left voluntarily.
Speaker 18: I fear that she has met with some form of
Speaker 18: foul play. She was a very dedicated mother to her
Speaker 18: children and there is no way in this world that
Speaker 18: she would leave without them. She also had a vested
Speaker 18: interest in the house and was very entrenched in legal
Speaker 18: proceedings to obtain a future for her and her children.
Speaker 3: Good morning, Hey, Kelly, how are you going?
Speaker 5: I'm well, how are you?
Speaker 19: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Not bad. Kelly O'Brien is still in Linux.
Speaker 1: In the three decad since Brahmin disappeared, Kelly has come
Speaker 1: to know John's daughter Jodi, and she sees John around
Speaker 1: Lenox every now and then. I think it was Robin
Speaker 1: who described you as a bit of a heart of
Speaker 1: the community in terms of all the programs you run
Speaker 1: for children and helping their physical and mental health and
Speaker 1: so on.
Speaker 5: That's very generous.
Speaker 20: So he used to take her ex husband serving in
Speaker 20: the mornings that I got him into the surf.
Speaker 5: I guess I didn't learn to seve as a youngster.
Speaker 5: I learned sef here.
Speaker 3: So I just loved it. It still do.
Speaker 20: I moved to Lenox with my partner Max in nineteen ninety.
Speaker 20: Goods grow and expanded. I think it's a much busier place.
Speaker 20: It's less tight knit as a community. It's reframing its identity.
Speaker 1: It's become incredibly affluent now, whereas before it was a
Speaker 1: lot more sleepy.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 20: I have a mate and we were having a yat
Speaker 20: the other day and he said, when I first came
Speaker 20: to Lenox, it used to be this town where you
Speaker 20: can't someone you go what do you do?
Speaker 5: Do you fish or do you serve?
Speaker 3: Where do you see John.
Speaker 5: On the beaches?
Speaker 20: We've done a lot of things in Lennox, my partner
Speaker 20: and I surfing related things, events and community and quite
Speaker 20: public things.
Speaker 1: I've got a sense of the way you perceive things
Speaker 1: at that time from your statement.
Speaker 21: Oh look, it was really such a strange thing that
Speaker 21: it's so accurate, and I'd forgotten about a couple of
Speaker 21: things that I'd mentioned.
Speaker 5: My reflection is as a person I am now.
Speaker 21: I look at the statement and I think how terribly
Speaker 21: non compassionate I was for Bronwyn, And I think, oh goodness,
Speaker 21: where was the supports for her and some kindness around
Speaker 21: what very challenging situations she was going through?
Speaker 20: Where was the network for Bronwyn emotionally upset and crying
Speaker 20: here and there. We're not the nicest people because we're
Speaker 20: very needy. And I look back and I think, oh, really,
Speaker 20: where were we all? She was very committed to provide
Speaker 20: the stability for the.
Speaker 5: Children and herself.
Speaker 20: It's unfathomable to me that it's a runoff and leave
Speaker 20: the children. She just really adored the children. It's just
Speaker 20: not something people do in my experience.
Speaker 1: I remember when we spoke briefly the other day you said,
Speaker 1: was the fact that it was a bit awkward or
Speaker 1: you weren't sure whether you could speak freely about it,
Speaker 1: just because of the community ties and you're closest to
Speaker 1: the community and the relationships with others, you felt unsure
Speaker 1: about whether you could talk to me.
Speaker 3: How did you reconcile things?
Speaker 20: People go through journeys, and for me, I'm a person
Speaker 20: in this very strong sense of justice. I work in
Speaker 20: the field of child protection. There is such a massive
Speaker 20: loss for the children of Bronwyn, and I would prefer
Speaker 20: to know that they have some sense of closure about
Speaker 20: what did happen to their mum. Things settled here, but
Speaker 20: they don't actually heal for the people where it matters
Speaker 20: most and it's hurt most. Some of the connections for
Speaker 20: the family are still here and I'm befriends with the
Speaker 20: people and see some of the parties that've spoken about.
Speaker 1: Do you have a sense of how John Winfield would
Speaker 1: feel about you talking.
Speaker 22: I don't know.
Speaker 5: He's really closed.
Speaker 1: Given the knowledge that people have had and the suspicions
Speaker 1: that some of those people have had for so many years.
Speaker 3: Why do you think John has stayed in the community.
Speaker 20: Some people aren't runners. You know they've made a commitment
Speaker 20: and you just keep going. Here's a stayer. If you're
Speaker 20: an isolated person, you don't really care about other people
Speaker 20: or what they think, then could.
Speaker 5: Just create your life and you're quite happy.
Speaker 20: I suppose what if someone is accused of things that
Speaker 20: they didn't do, why should they have to run away?
Speaker 20: And did you speak with Crystal and Jody and little
Speaker 20: Lauren or not little Laurence?
Speaker 21: Oh?
Speaker 3: Could she be?
Speaker 5: Goodness? Man?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've talked to and met Crystal. It's complicated, Kelly.
Speaker 1: She's concerned about straining her relationship with Lauren, and I
Speaker 1: think Lauren has been loyally backing her father. I'm not
Speaker 1: putting any pressure on her, and I haven't even asked
Speaker 1: her for a formal interview. If Jodie wants to talk
Speaker 1: to me, I would welcome that, of course, hopefully John.
Speaker 1: I mean I don't think John will want to talk,
Speaker 1: but I hope that he'll consider it.
Speaker 20: I'm going to hedge bets that no one's going to
Speaker 20: want to upset Dad. It's all been too hard. Past
Speaker 20: is the past, and let it sit.
Speaker 5: There what most people would want to know. Do you
Speaker 5: think your dad did it or not?
Speaker 23: All?
Speaker 20: That's quite untenable to think of something so horrific.
Speaker 5: I suspect it's.
Speaker 1: Been thirty one years since Brahmin disappeared, and I get
Speaker 1: sense you still feel uncomfortable raising or talking about it
Speaker 1: with John, to ask him, Hey, has anyone seen Bromwin?
Speaker 3: Like where is she? Do you know you've got the ideas.
Speaker 20: I've never spoken to John about it. I never feel
Speaker 20: very comfortable to bring that up. I probably still wouldn't.
Speaker 20: I'm a curious person. I work in social services and
Speaker 20: I love stories.
Speaker 5: I never wanted to have a mystery in my life
Speaker 5: like that.
Speaker 1: I guess I'm more thinking about the truth that comes
Speaker 1: from transparency and openness and talking about things, because in
Speaker 1: my experience, it's the secrecy and the concealment.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 20: No, I agree, And I actually just said to my partner,
Speaker 20: it's exactly like a sexual abuse scenario when people they
Speaker 20: turn a blind eye or they just they don't believe.
Speaker 5: That it may have happened.
Speaker 20: And I think for other people in John's family or
Speaker 20: community don't want to believe that something so iboric could
Speaker 20: have happened, and we also, I don't want to believe
Speaker 20: that Bronlin could have cut and brown and left the children.
Speaker 5: And if there's no evidence, then.
Speaker 20: People sort of go, well, I don't know, hands up
Speaker 20: in the air, what do you do?
Speaker 1: It then just enters this kind of twilight zone and
Speaker 1: then one decade, two decades, three decades past.
Speaker 24: Love is caring, sharing, knowing someone, perhaps not every intimate detail, liking, affection,
Speaker 24: making love and being each other's best friend, tolerance and
Speaker 24: patience for each other's bad habits, as well as praise
Speaker 24: and credit for the good.
Speaker 1: Peter Shannon and the husband of Robin from whom you
Speaker 1: heard earlier, recalled seeing Bromwin at the birthday party.
Speaker 25: I remember that Bronwin looked a bit lonely that night.
Speaker 25: Bromwan didn't have a partner with her, and she was
Speaker 25: by herself. At no stage on the Saturday night of
Speaker 25: May fifteen, nineteen ninety three did Bromwin mention to me
Speaker 25: that she was going to be absent from work on
Speaker 25: the Tuesday, Nor did she mention anything about leaving the
Speaker 25: Lennox Head area.
Speaker 1: Peter had a rapport with Bromman. It came from them
Speaker 1: working together at Eden's Takeaway.
Speaker 25: Broman would always talk about her girls at work, and
Speaker 25: I know that she really loved them. During my conversations
Speaker 25: with Bronwin, she would tell me about her husband, John.
Speaker 25: Bromwin said that John was a bit of an old woman.
Speaker 25: She said that he was very meticulous in the house.
Speaker 25: He hated any mess anywhere in the house. Bromwan would
Speaker 25: tell me that John had insisted that everything in the
Speaker 25: house had to be kept spotlessly clean.
Speaker 1: Tracy Brown, another co owner of Eden's Takeaway, was scornful
Speaker 1: of the idea that Bromwin would have gone off to
Speaker 1: start a new life without her children. On one occasion,
Speaker 1: Tracy and her daughter had been to see Bromwan at
Speaker 1: the house at Sandstone Crescent.
Speaker 26: Bronwyn told me a couple of days later that John
Speaker 26: went right off about some biscuit crumbs being dropped on
Speaker 26: the tiles.
Speaker 1: Tracy recalled that at some time in March or April
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 26: Bronwyn told me John had told her that there was
Speaker 26: no way that she was going to get his house.
Speaker 26: I vaguely recall Bromwyn mentioning something about custody for the
Speaker 26: youngest child, Lauren. I think John was going to put
Speaker 26: in for custody of this child. I do remember at
Speaker 26: a later time, Bromwyn told me that she moved back
Speaker 26: into the family home. Bromwn told me that she was
Speaker 26: scared John would come back to the house and try
Speaker 26: to get her out. I recall her saying that she
Speaker 26: had to get a locksmith to get back into the
Speaker 26: house as the locks have been changed. Bronwyn was an
Speaker 26: exceptionally good mother to her children. Everything she did was
Speaker 26: for her children. There is no way known, in my opinion,
Speaker 26: that Bronwyn would ever leave those children.
Speaker 1: You heard Tracy recalling Bromwin's concern that John would try
Speaker 1: to win custody of the children, or at least Lauren.
Speaker 1: In an earlier episode. You heard Joan and that's not
Speaker 1: her real name, recalling her talks with her friend Bromwin
Speaker 1: at that time in nineteen ninety three, and Joan told
Speaker 1: police about this. Here's Joan again.
Speaker 27: She was worried because she had overheard John talking to
Speaker 27: his father saying it to be better if he had
Speaker 27: the kids, because he had better chance of having the
Speaker 27: house if he had the kids.
Speaker 1: It seemed that she was worried he had a strategy
Speaker 1: to seek custody of the children, and the children were
Speaker 1: as strategy as part of keeping the house.
Speaker 27: And they could call it quits.
Speaker 28: She was worried about it.
Speaker 3: It's pretty bold. Crystal was another father's child. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now let's go back to Ian Glewis, or Scruffy as
Speaker 1: everyone in Lenox calls him. He told me that on
Speaker 1: one of her visits in May nineteen ninety three, on
Speaker 1: when shared the legal advice she had received about her
Speaker 1: right to return to the family home in Sandstone Crescent,
Speaker 1: she said said, the solicitor's great in Lismore's there's such
Speaker 1: a thing of being forced to leave, you know, when
Speaker 1: it's actually the marital home.
Speaker 6: And he was still lord of the manor even when
Speaker 6: he wasn't there. You know, he was going down to
Speaker 6: Sydney and working. She'd been forced to vacate the premises
Speaker 6: and move down because of he behaved, whatever's gone down,
Speaker 6: and because of the atomic situation and controlling in the
Speaker 6: violence he's by his actions has forced you to he's
Speaker 6: the one that should be gone with you look out
Speaker 6: for the girls. And she gave her the advice to
Speaker 6: change the locks and move in place.
Speaker 3: While he was missing. She told Maria about that.
Speaker 6: It was brom when he was inside of our kitchen
Speaker 6: table talking to Maria and having coffee and stuff. She
Speaker 6: told that I was there at the time when I
Speaker 6: heard her say this, and I said, I don't think
Speaker 6: that's such a good idea.
Speaker 3: I said, because he's going to lose it. He's going
Speaker 3: to peek out, and he was.
Speaker 6: Going to not be happy.
Speaker 3: And that's what happened.
Speaker 6: And when she said that the solicitor has said the
Speaker 6: property is yours, he's the one that has to get
Speaker 6: out and go there with the locks, has change the
Speaker 6: locks and take possession of it. And you know, within
Speaker 6: the law, it might be what's right legally to you,
Speaker 6: and you're pull or right in the world to go
Speaker 6: in and take possession of it, right because he's forced
Speaker 6: you into this position that might be perfectly right to
Speaker 6: do and legally right to do. But they're not putting
Speaker 6: a twenty four hour fucking security guard on your fame
Speaker 6: door when you do it. And I said, I don't
Speaker 6: think that's such a good idea.
Speaker 3: Bromwin.
Speaker 1: Scruffy believed Bromwin should have remained a rent paying tenant
Speaker 1: in the townhouse on Byron Street keep the peace with John.
Speaker 1: You see him in the surf from time to time, No,
Speaker 1: never his favorite beach's Bowlders.
Speaker 6: He never shops downtown or comes to the service station
Speaker 6: to fulfill or anything. He was like an exile from
Speaker 6: the town, not to be seen. Never seen him with
Speaker 6: a friend. I was the closest thing to what he
Speaker 6: had as a friend.
Speaker 1: Here's the landlady, Shirley Taylor again. These are her words
Speaker 1: from a police statement. A quarter centgo. It's not her voice.
Speaker 29: During the afternoon of the fourteenth of May, Bromwin came
Speaker 29: around to my place and told me that she was
Speaker 29: moving out of the townhouse and moving back into her
Speaker 29: house because John had moved back to Sydney. She was
Speaker 29: extremely happy about moving back into her house. She moved
Speaker 29: some of her things out that day and left other
Speaker 29: things such as clothing, crockery, and kitchen items in the townhouse.
Speaker 29: I didn't see bromin again, and when she didn't come
Speaker 29: back to get her things, I moved them into our shed.
Speaker 29: I kept bringing her house all the time. There was
Speaker 29: no answer and the phone would ring out.
Speaker 1: He is deb Bromwin's good friend and closest neighbor.
Speaker 3: Again.
Speaker 16: I was working and she was busy downtown, and we
Speaker 16: weren't probably on each other stall steps as much as
Speaker 16: she would have been if she was living here. But
Speaker 16: I did go visit her down there, re caught up,
Speaker 16: so it wasn't that long that she had been living
Speaker 16: down there for now, either six or eight weeks later.
Speaker 28: I was here one.
Speaker 16: Friday night and Murray had broken his back. Then he'd
Speaker 16: fallen and hit his back in the surf, and so
Speaker 16: he was actually in the hospital. And I knew she
Speaker 16: wasn't there, and I knew John wasn't there because he'd
Speaker 16: left to go to Sydney. But I looked out the
Speaker 16: window because I could hear commotion next door late at night,
Speaker 16: and there was a trailer and a car, and I
Speaker 16: thought someone's moving in up there, you know, I was
Speaker 16: seeing them.
Speaker 4: Maybe he's rented the house.
Speaker 16: And then lo and behold about nine o'clock that night
Speaker 16: and knock on the front door here and opened It
Speaker 16: was from him, and she said, oh hi, And I said, oh.
Speaker 3: What are you doing?
Speaker 4: She goes, let's back into the house. I went, oh,
Speaker 4: are you why I'm paying all this rent downtown?
Speaker 16: I'm entitled to be in the house, so I've been
Speaker 16: told by solicia, I'm entitled to be in the house.
Speaker 16: I went, what's he going to do when he finds
Speaker 16: out you're in the house, because I just thought John's
Speaker 16: gonna flow. I guess if he finds out she's in
Speaker 16: the house, because that's how he was. She said, no, no, no,
Speaker 16: She said, I've got people up and call. And I said, well,
Speaker 16: Murray's in hospital, so you know, I haven't got any
Speaker 16: backup if anything happens.
Speaker 21: You know.
Speaker 16: She came in and we were chatting, and I do
Speaker 16: remember we had a glass of wine. We just had
Speaker 16: a general chit chat talking about getting locks changed on
Speaker 16: the house, or having the locks change.
Speaker 3: She hadn't talked to at least Flight, our neighbor. Yeah,
Speaker 3: they had a spare key because she couldn't get in.
Speaker 3: She couldn't get in. That's right. Roman's brother Andy Reid
Speaker 3: has something to say about this. She got to the
Speaker 3: house and she wrung me in. She's gone.
Speaker 12: The bastards changed the locks. It's changed the locks. I
Speaker 12: can't get him. My key doesn't work. I said to her,
Speaker 12: we'll get a locksmith, get into the house, get the
Speaker 12: locks changed, get your own key, and you're in.
Speaker 16: She made a phone call on my phone, and I
Speaker 16: remember the phone used to be on the wall in
Speaker 16: the kitchen back then we had the difference set up.
Speaker 16: It might have been a locksmith because it was quite late,
Speaker 16: but unless it was a twenty four hour one which
Speaker 16: had it for a bit long.
Speaker 3: As she left.
Speaker 1: Romman's other neighbor, Heather Hardgrave, and her husband Lloyd, remembered
Speaker 1: seeing Bromwin. It must have been on the friday. They
Speaker 1: gave written statements to police in September nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 1: Heather and Lloyd have died. These are their words, it's
Speaker 1: not their voices. Lloyd refers to his wife by her
Speaker 1: preferred name, Chris.
Speaker 13: She called out to me from our yard on her
Speaker 13: side of the house. I went downstairs to her and
Speaker 13: she was looking along the windows of her place. When
Speaker 13: I approached Bromwin, she asked me if I had a key,
Speaker 13: and I told her I didn't. She said that she
Speaker 13: couldn't get into the house because John had changed all
Speaker 13: the locks.
Speaker 3: Bromwin had very little cash.
Speaker 1: She confided to her neighbor that John had closed her
Speaker 1: credit card.
Speaker 13: She was very upset and crying, and said that John
Speaker 13: had threatened to take the children from her, the same
Speaker 13: as he had done to his first wife and taken
Speaker 13: Jody from her.
Speaker 15: After my wife and Bronwyn had been speaking for a
Speaker 15: short time, came over to join them. Bronman inquired from
Speaker 15: Chris and I if we had a key to her home.
Speaker 15: Bronman said that she was unable to get into the
Speaker 15: house and she appeared to be very upset at the time.
Speaker 15: It was at this time that Bronman told Chris and
Speaker 15: I that Jonathan Winfield had threatened that he was going
Speaker 15: to take the children from her.
Speaker 13: Bronwin then left and went back around the other side
Speaker 13: of the house, and I didn't see her again.
Speaker 15: It was not long after this that the locksmith arrived,
Speaker 15: and I'm aware that Bronman moved back into the house.
Speaker 13: Later that night, I noticed lights on inside the house
Speaker 13: and I assumed that she had gained entry into the house.
Speaker 1: Bromwin's half sister, Kim Marshall, remembers speaking to her just
Speaker 1: two days before she disappeared. Hi, Kim, how right We
Speaker 1: were talking about the Friday evening, the fourteenth of May.
Speaker 3: She was moving back into Sandstone Crescent.
Speaker 30: In my last phone call with Bromwin, I was actually
Speaker 30: very surprised to hear her report to me of her
Speaker 30: excitement that she had actually gained entry. Oh, you're back
Speaker 30: in the house, and Roman goes, yes, yes, I'm so excited.
Speaker 4: I'm so pleased. I've had been speaking to Andrew. I've
Speaker 4: been to the lawyer.
Speaker 30: Andrew explained to me that I needed to get the
Speaker 30: locksmith and gain inter to the house and do that
Speaker 30: nine tenths of the law thing. And so I've done
Speaker 30: this because Jonathan's away working in Sydney, and I thought
Speaker 30: it was the right moment for me to actually get
Speaker 30: back into the house where I can resettle the girls
Speaker 30: and myself and get things back to normal. I've got
Speaker 30: the trailer here, I'm unloading everything. I've got to work tomorrow.
Speaker 30: We're here, We're safe. I'm actually looking in the window
Speaker 30: now and I can see Debbie and Murray across from
Speaker 30: the house. She gave me the understanding that she felt
Speaker 30: very strong, very empowered, very capable, and that this was
Speaker 30: the right way forward. Everything's fine. And I was like, oh, okay,
Speaker 30: so when I come up, I'll be coming to actually
Speaker 30: stay with you there, and she goes yes, yes, And
Speaker 30: the lawyer's doing everything and everything's going to be wrong.
Speaker 30: So it was like she was taking her territory back
Speaker 30: or making her mark to actually say, well, I'm in
Speaker 30: the house. You're not going to get me back out
Speaker 30: because I'm in it now, so you stay away. And
Speaker 30: I was just totally taken aback and I just left
Speaker 30: the phone call saying what you've done is that actually
Speaker 30: a safe thing to do?
Speaker 4: And I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 3: When did your next talk to her?
Speaker 4: Never got to talk to her again.
Speaker 22: That was it.
Speaker 4: That was the last time I actually spoke to her.
Speaker 1: Here's some further detail from Bromwin's friend Joan and how
Speaker 1: did you learn that she had moved back into the
Speaker 1: family house at Sandstone Crescent.
Speaker 27: She rang me on the Sunday morning asked if I
Speaker 27: could mind her kids and I said I couldn't because
Speaker 27: one of mine was sick. And she said that she
Speaker 27: was back in the house And I said when did
Speaker 27: you move back in? And she said Friday, But Saturday
Speaker 27: night was the first night I spent that And I said,
Speaker 27: how does John feel about that? She said he wasn't
Speaker 27: happy to start with buddies all right now? She had
Speaker 27: no plans to move away, and she never mentioned going
Speaker 27: anywhere she was going to go to work. It's almost
Speaker 27: want to meet mind the kids. No mention of going away.
Speaker 3: That was the Sunday.
Speaker 1: You say in your statement in nineteen ninety eight. She
Speaker 1: also told me that John had said to her that
Speaker 1: if she bad mouthed him around Lennox Head that.
Speaker 3: He would kill her. And it's a pretty powerful allegation.
Speaker 1: And you put that statement in five years after Bromin's disappearance.
Speaker 22: And it was not somethingly forgetting. Is that if someone
Speaker 22: tells you that, I guess that's why she had disappeared.
Speaker 22: I stride by felt something had happened to her. She said,
Speaker 22: you'd have to teach me how to made the grass.
Speaker 22: And it's the last time I spoke to her. So
Speaker 22: she had no intentions of just up and leaving.
Speaker 3: Is deb again.
Speaker 16: I didn't see a lot of her on the Saturday
Speaker 16: because she was moving from down there to hear I
Speaker 16: was actually Murray was coming out of hospital that day,
Speaker 16: so I'd probably gone into the hospital and pick him up,
Speaker 16: and you know I had little kids.
Speaker 1: You said that you asked her, what're you going to
Speaker 1: do when he finds out? Or was that effect you
Speaker 1: were a bit concerned about what his reaction would be.
Speaker 5: Is that right?
Speaker 16: Well, I was worried for her because I thought, well,
Speaker 16: if John finds out she's in the house, he's going
Speaker 16: to basically lose his you know what, because his house
Speaker 16: was his shrine. She had to move out, but it
Speaker 16: was her house too, Yes, exactly. And that's what she
Speaker 16: got legal advice, you see. And I think it was
Speaker 16: about what she was entitled to, and that's where I
Speaker 16: think she got the advice from to move back in.
Speaker 16: And then when I had that conversation, I said, what
Speaker 16: are you doing. I've got every right to be here.
Speaker 16: I've got legal advice I can appa should be in
Speaker 16: the house. And that's what I'm doing. I can't afford
Speaker 16: to pay rent down here, and you know John's not here,
Speaker 16: I'm moving back in. At the time, I just thought
Speaker 16: he's just going to give her such a hard time,
Speaker 16: really make it difficult for her.
Speaker 3: But in your mind you saw it possible, violets, Hello,
Speaker 3: oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 22: Would you agree with that?
Speaker 3: He would not have let her come back to that house. No,
Speaker 3: that's right. He wouldn't have been happy about it. No,
Speaker 3: I have no evidence solvingim being violent. His house was
Speaker 3: his shrine. He loved that house. That was him.
Speaker 16: In conversations I'd had with Bromwin prior to her moving out,
Speaker 16: when I used to say to her, look, you know
Speaker 16: you should just leave him and you're entitled to anything,
Speaker 16: and I remember her saying this. She said, I'll never
Speaker 16: be able to move out because he won't let me
Speaker 16: have anything and I'll be left destitute. I said, no,
Speaker 16: but you've got rights, you know. No, no, no, you
Speaker 16: don't know what he's like, is what she said. This
Speaker 16: is before that weekend. I knew it for five years
Speaker 16: before she went missing, because I used to say to her,
Speaker 16: he's that miserable.
Speaker 28: You know, he's such an ahole.
Speaker 3: Why don't you just leave him?
Speaker 28: And she said, I can't, He'll leave me with nothing.
Speaker 16: Now he'd been married three times too, so he had
Speaker 16: his first wife, then a second one, and then was
Speaker 16: the third. And then when she did leave unless what,
Speaker 16: I was surprised. I thought, oh well, and then I thought, no,
Speaker 16: good on your girl. You need to be happy, and
Speaker 16: you know you're only young.
Speaker 1: The chronology is really interesting because you see Roman Friday evening. Yes,
Speaker 1: she says, I'm moving back in and I'm just going
Speaker 1: to assert my rights. Yes, because this is possibly half
Speaker 1: my Yes, yes, she moves back in. You've got things
Speaker 1: to do on Saturday.
Speaker 24: Yep.
Speaker 3: Did you see her Sunday? I did.
Speaker 16: The last conversation I had with her was on that Sunday.
Speaker 3: In Sydney.
Speaker 1: That same afternoon, John abruptly changed his own plans to
Speaker 1: continue working on a house in the Shire. He went
Speaker 1: to Sydney Airport on Sunday and checked in for a
Speaker 1: one way flight to Ballina. It's a twenty minute drive
Speaker 1: from the regional airport to the house at Sandstone Crescent,
Speaker 1: and the.
Speaker 16: Sunday she came down to see me and asked me
Speaker 16: could I look after the kids for a few hours
Speaker 16: because she had to work.
Speaker 3: I said yeah, sure, you know.
Speaker 16: So the kids basically played between my place and her place,
Speaker 16: and then she got home at about I reckon it
Speaker 16: was either beef between five and her past that afternoon
Speaker 16: Sunday afternoon, and I was standing out the front and
Speaker 16: she came. She said, thanks for having the kids.
Speaker 3: Were they okay?
Speaker 16: Finally just been playing. We were chatting and I remember saying, so,
Speaker 16: what's on this week for you? And she said, oh, well,
Speaker 16: I'm still moving Because she was still between moving. I'll
Speaker 16: still be moving in tomorrow and the kids will be
Speaker 16: going to school. I've got to get them home and
Speaker 16: get them bathed and fed and ready for school tomorrow.
Speaker 16: And I said, okay, well I'm doing the same, you know,
Speaker 16: because my kids will be going to school as well.
Speaker 3: And I said, I'll catch you later.
Speaker 4: And that was the last time I spoke to her,
Speaker 4: and you never saw her again, never after that.
Speaker 1: A neighbor friend, Virginia Bevis, still feels uncomfortable about her
Speaker 1: small part in Bromwin's sudden return to live in the
Speaker 1: house at Sandstone Crescent.
Speaker 3: Magnificent stretch of coastline. It is gorgeous.
Speaker 28: We made the decision we didn't want to go Nearbyron
Speaker 28: and not just like Lennox.
Speaker 4: Do you might want to talk to Lee?
Speaker 28: He's just inside. Do you want me to call him out?
Speaker 23: Yeah?
Speaker 28: Any daughter? He thought she was lovely.
Speaker 1: Virginia and Lee and their children lived very close to
Speaker 1: Bromin and John's house on Sandstone Crescent. They talked to
Speaker 1: her regularly. One of their daughters used to babysit Bromwin's girls.
Speaker 1: The children would worry about making any mess in the
Speaker 1: house and upsetting John. A lot of people have talked
Speaker 1: to me about his obsession with house.
Speaker 3: Does that ring a bell?
Speaker 28: Well, he locked the kids in the carriage while he
Speaker 28: was going surfing.
Speaker 3: How did we know that?
Speaker 28: Because that's what happened when my daughter and her friend
Speaker 28: went down to Just a Crystal. They walked down I'll
Speaker 28: tell you wanted to drink of water and Crystal said
Speaker 28: I we're not allowed in the house while he's not here.
Speaker 28: And she says, I'm getting a drink or order and
Speaker 28: walked in. The next thing I heard screaming, I've looked
Speaker 28: out the window upstairs and they're running back. He'd come
Speaker 28: home and caught him and kicked him out. I just
Speaker 28: thought it was strange looking the kids in the garage
Speaker 28: and not letting them in the house.
Speaker 3: To go surfing.
Speaker 28: And I thought they were too young.
Speaker 1: What do you think would be different if someone with
Speaker 1: Roman circumstances disappeared like that Today, it'll.
Speaker 28: Be able to social media instantly. I think the police
Speaker 28: did have better investigative skills.
Speaker 1: Did you form an impression about how determined or not
Speaker 1: she was to remain separated from him?
Speaker 15: Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was stone separated. You could see the trouble.
Speaker 3: Oh god, how did you distinguish it? What did you say? Now?
Speaker 3: Just a voice?
Speaker 28: And when she started confiding and things like that, she
Speaker 28: was definitely troubled. It was a bad relationship.
Speaker 3: Did you still see them around them?
Speaker 28: If I did, i'd cross the road. Oh yeah, definitely.
Speaker 28: But he booted her out the house and then pissed
Speaker 28: off the Sydney.
Speaker 15: Yeah.
Speaker 19: I was wondering, why did she end up leaving the
Speaker 19: house because they kicked her out? And is that something
Speaker 19: you remember or something she said to me? In their
Speaker 19: weeks in the townhouse.
Speaker 1: According to Virginia, Ronwin and her two girls had struggled
Speaker 1: to stay warm.
Speaker 28: I remember telling me how cold it was down there,
Speaker 28: and the two kids in her were alway just huddled.
Speaker 3: She was struggling.
Speaker 28: It was just certain things. She said, something about that's
Speaker 28: all they could afford and off freezing, and he was
Speaker 28: abusive and she was scared of him. Just when I said,
Speaker 28: smooth back in the house. He's in Sydney. It was
Speaker 28: my buddy idea.
Speaker 5: You won't like it.
Speaker 3: Oh, you built it together. It's half hers. Yeah, not
Speaker 3: how he saw.
Speaker 1: If it makes you feel any less responsible. Her solicitor
Speaker 1: also gave her that advice, and so did her brother,
Speaker 1: so you shouldn't have to bear that burden. For many years,
Speaker 1: neither Virginia nor Lee had any contact with police investigating
Speaker 1: Bronwin's disappearance, but in two thousand and nine a statement
Speaker 1: was taken. I scrolled through it on my laptop while
Speaker 1: we sit at the front of her house and Lee
Speaker 1: remains inside. So you don't become a witness until you
Speaker 1: give this statement. Yeah, and that's two thousand and nine.
Speaker 3: Do you know why that is?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 28: I actually asked him. They said, we have the diary,
Speaker 28: and I said, well, why didn't it It had my
Speaker 28: address in it.
Speaker 3: Why didn't you ever come and see me?
Speaker 28: I saw her the night before she went missing. My
Speaker 28: phone numbers written there. It actually said Saturday night Virginia
Speaker 28: phone number, etc. And you never contacted me. I just
Speaker 28: think there's a lot of incompetence. The place need to
Speaker 28: pick the game up the detectives.
Speaker 3: That's embarrassing.
Speaker 28: Yeah, that was hard to find anyway. We never changed
Speaker 28: phone numbers or anything, and it took them twenty years
Speaker 28: to find me.
Speaker 1: Incredible, You say Robin told me about Jonathan being abusive
Speaker 1: towards her.
Speaker 3: Yes, I interpreted from that that Jonathan had been physically
Speaker 3: violent to her. Yes, had hit her and been very
Speaker 3: abusive feeling at her.
Speaker 1: She said to me words the effect of, you don't
Speaker 1: know him, he's been abusive before, and he scares me.
Speaker 31: Yeah.
Speaker 28: That was at Eden's, at in front of Aiden's. I
Speaker 28: was sitting down talking.
Speaker 3: I think I haven't told her to get a locksmith,
Speaker 3: which she did.
Speaker 28: She couldn't get in because he changed the locks. I
Speaker 28: can remember even saying the locksmith parked out the front
Speaker 28: of their place. Because I'd walk from Sandstone around the
Speaker 28: corner at the Granite Street every day. I was on
Speaker 28: a builder.
Speaker 3: So it's their lost. Shortly before meeting Virginia, one of
Speaker 3: Bromwin's relatives tracked down some video of her. Hello, Hello,
Speaker 3: is that Megan? Do you have any video or audio
Speaker 3: of Bromwin.
Speaker 23: There was a film shown at the Colonial Inquest that
Speaker 23: belonged to the neighbor and the early other one, Channel
Speaker 23: ten made a documentary called Sometimes I Get Frightened, and
Speaker 23: that was a story of my uncle Phillip with a transplant.
Speaker 23: That Bromwin was there and she is interviewed and it
Speaker 23: shows her with her father's heartbreaking you. And John's actually
Speaker 23: in that too. My brother had it transferred onto GISK
Speaker 23: for Crystal.
Speaker 3: Maybe I just want to say the video with Bronwin
Speaker 3: in it, that.
Speaker 20: Was the first time I watched it was yesterday when
Speaker 20: my grandfather sent it to me, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 20: my goodness, like I've never seen a video of her
Speaker 20: before or heard her voice.
Speaker 1: It was filmed in nineteen eighty six when Bronwyn and
Speaker 1: John were visiting her father Philip, he had just received
Speaker 1: a liver transplant. Bronwyn tenderly comforts her dad at his bedside,
Speaker 1: while John stands close.
Speaker 28: She really cared for him, and she really cared for
Speaker 28: those she loved.
Speaker 3: She whispers something in his ear.
Speaker 1: Later, she responds to a question from the documentary's reporter
Speaker 1: Des McWilliam.
Speaker 32: On the third day, Philip Reid still hasn't regained full consciousness.
Speaker 3: He remains critical.
Speaker 32: Bronwin, forever optimistic, looks for signs of progress, and tries
Speaker 32: to reinforce her father's own will to live.
Speaker 3: But his system is tiring and breaking down, and some
Speaker 3: days are.
Speaker 28: Better than others.
Speaker 33: You know, if I think he's responding, sometimes you'll blink
Speaker 33: or wink or move his head. If I think he's responding,
Speaker 33: it makes me.
Speaker 28: Feel a lot better.
Speaker 33: But all I ever telling him is that he's going
Speaker 33: to get better, the sort of things that he'd wanted.
Speaker 33: You know that he's leaves functioning, his kidneys are fine,
Speaker 33: and you know, and that his heart's still it's strong,
Speaker 33: and that he's.
Speaker 16: Going to be your eye.
Speaker 32: Two weeks now since the second transplant, and Philip continues
Speaker 32: to hang on to life with the frailess thread.
Speaker 3: He's a good bloke, isn't he.
Speaker 28: Here's the best, the best, Oh that came in sits
Speaker 28: same hair everything.
Speaker 3: Yeah, her dad, he died soon after that. She had
Speaker 3: a pretty tough life. I think I think she did.
Speaker 1: She still wondered what she'd be doing now if the
Speaker 1: separation and divorce had gone smoothly.
Speaker 28: Yeah, greedy bastard. He didn't give that damn house up.
Speaker 28: She was genuinely scared. How could she have an accident
Speaker 28: not be reported? And if she left him, why didn't
Speaker 28: she take the kids? At the very loose crystal, I'll
Speaker 28: get her close.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it would be great to meet your husband. Yeah welcome, Yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: good to see her.
Speaker 28: It's a bad prong when I just saw a video
Speaker 28: of her.
Speaker 3: Ah, is this what this is about?
Speaker 12: Oh?
Speaker 3: I did not know what you're here.
Speaker 31: Yeah, our oldest daughter was a babysitter for her the
Speaker 31: night before she went missing. She was a lovely lady.
Speaker 31: She'd loved it kids.
Speaker 3: Did you know him? Well, no, not really.
Speaker 31: I made him a few times and I was sort
Speaker 31: of downing, slightly aloof and arrogant.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 1: What do you think about the proposition that she left
Speaker 1: and started the new life with not a chance, not
Speaker 1: a chance?
Speaker 3: The cicadas start up?
Speaker 15: Are they?
Speaker 3: What were the cicadas?
Speaker 28: Those bugs, those insects?
Speaker 34: And how old is he now?
Speaker 3: Well, he would be about seventy.
Speaker 34: Seventy thirty one years ago, yesterday, thirty one years ago. Incredible,
Speaker 34: It was just so obvious. When did you form that
Speaker 34: view years ago when it first happened. She completely disappear
Speaker 34: and she left the kids? Come on, don't conslp more intelligence?
Speaker 31: Do you can, right, old man, not leave the kids doing?
Speaker 3: What do you think the chances are? It's hard to say.
Speaker 1: The police wanted to charge him with murder, but the
Speaker 1: lawyers working for the DPP.
Speaker 3: They said, well, we don't think there's enough evidence to
Speaker 3: get a conviction and what if enough the current a
Speaker 3: said he should have been charged with murder. So if
Speaker 3: you can find some more evidence, or if a new.
Speaker 1: DPP says, you know what, a jury listening to all
Speaker 1: this evidence, even though it's circumstantial, might well convict him.
Speaker 1: I drove out of Lennox and cuested the hill between
Speaker 1: en Clave and the busy M one Highway. It's a
Speaker 1: three hour drive back across the border into Queensland and
Speaker 1: up to Brisbane.
Speaker 5: Calling hello.
Speaker 1: It was pretty interesting talking to Virginia and housband Lee
Speaker 1: this afternoon.
Speaker 35: What they told me was they didn't talk to police
Speaker 35: or give a statement to police until two thousand and nine,
Speaker 35: even though they spoke to Broman the night before she disappeared, right.
Speaker 21: Which is insane that they weren't talk to that would
Speaker 21: have been so feltful, so much.
Speaker 5: Earlier on.
Speaker 3: Roman confided that she was very fearful of John. That's
Speaker 3: so vital.
Speaker 35: The coroner didn't have that evidence and therefore the DPV
Speaker 35: didn't have that evidence when the case was rejected.
Speaker 5: Yeah, have changed things, but.
Speaker 1: MinC Bronwyn is written and investigated by me Headley Thomas.
Speaker 3: As a podcast production for the Australian.
Speaker 1: If anyone has information which may help solve this cold case,
Speaker 1: please contact me confidentially by emailing Bronwyn at the Australian
Speaker 1: dot com dot au. You can read more about this
Speaker 1: case and see a range of photographs and other artwork
Speaker 1: at the website Bronwyn podcast dot com. Our subscribers and
Speaker 1: registered users here episodes first. The production and editorial team
Speaker 1: for bromwin includes Claire Harvey, Kristin Amiot, Joshua Burton, Bridget,
Speaker 1: Ryan Bianca, far Marcus, Katie Burns, Liam Mendez, Sean Callen
Speaker 1: and Matthew Condon and David Murray. Audio production for this
Speaker 1: podcast series is by Wasabi Audio and original theme music
Speaker 1: by Slade Gibson. We have been assisted by Madison Walsh,
Speaker 1: a relation of bromin Winfield.
Speaker 3: We can only do this kind of journalism.
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