WEBVTT - How Elon Musk's Grok started undressing children

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<v Speaker 1>When Elon Musk first launched his AI tool Groc, he

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<v Speaker 1>called it rebellious and anti woke. But over the summer

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<v Speaker 1>what that meant took a disturbing turn. The chatbot, which

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<v Speaker 1>is embedded in must social media platform X, started undressing

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<v Speaker 1>people without their consent.

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<v Speaker 2>So you would post an image saying, hey, having a

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<v Speaker 2>great holidays, and then someone would reply underneath it, hey, GROC,

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<v Speaker 2>can you put this person in a bikini? And it

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<v Speaker 2>would everyone will be able to see it. You wouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>be able to do anything about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Cam Wilson is a tech journalist and associate editor at criche.

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<v Speaker 1>He watched this take hold as more and more people

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<v Speaker 1>pushed Groc to the limit.

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<v Speaker 2>And so people on X using this AI chatbody in

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<v Speaker 2>public were undressing people who were posting their People were

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<v Speaker 2>posting pictures of other people, mostly women, sometimes children as well,

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<v Speaker 2>and this thing, while they didn't actually publicly post naked images,

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<v Speaker 2>it was highly sexual. It was putting people in reviewing clothing,

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<v Speaker 2>It was using saying, putting like donut gaze on people's

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<v Speaker 2>faces to simulate sex acts. So you know, everything up

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<v Speaker 2>to the line very sexualized, all in public allowed on X.

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<v Speaker 1>Anthony Alberinezi has staked his legacy on keeping children safe online,

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<v Speaker 1>so what.

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<v Speaker 3>Is he doing to stop grok.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Nicole Johnston and you're listening to seven AM today

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<v Speaker 1>Cam Wilson and whether it's time for the government to

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<v Speaker 1>get off X. It's Wednesday, January twenty one.

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<v Speaker 3>Cam.

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<v Speaker 1>We've been hearing stories over the past week or so

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<v Speaker 1>about sexualized images of women and children being created and

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<v Speaker 1>distributed on X.

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<v Speaker 3>How widespread is this?

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<v Speaker 4>It was pretty widespread.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean so at its peak we saw people saying

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<v Speaker 2>that Grok was generating I think thousands upon thousands of

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<v Speaker 2>non consensual, generally sexualized images of people.

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<v Speaker 4>Every day.

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<v Speaker 1>Someone proplied to me and asked Rock to put me

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<v Speaker 1>in a bikini.

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<v Speaker 3>I feel like violated seeing it.

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<v Speaker 2>And so what makes us different is that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>unlike these other AI chatbots, where how you interact with

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<v Speaker 2>these chatbots tends to be fairly private, it is very public.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was just, you know, an endless scroll of

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<v Speaker 2>people whose images had been sexualized to either which really

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<v Speaker 2>you know, sexualize them or in many cases to humiliate

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<v Speaker 2>them as well.

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<v Speaker 5>These look very real, these images, and they also have

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<v Speaker 5>real parts of my real life, like my real son's

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<v Speaker 5>backpack in the background cam.

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<v Speaker 3>It sounds just awful.

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<v Speaker 1>But what are the laws that are being broken and

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<v Speaker 1>is anything being done about it?

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<v Speaker 2>This is something that when it gets to become sexual imagery,

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<v Speaker 2>is in many cases against the war. Australia has federal

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<v Speaker 2>laws against distributing deep fake images, but if it stops

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<v Speaker 2>short of that, if it is just something that is

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<v Speaker 2>sexually suggestive, it may not be against the law.

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<v Speaker 4>And as far as I know in Australia, there's actually.

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<v Speaker 2>No war against the kind of creation of a tool

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<v Speaker 2>that allows you to create sexual images of someone that

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<v Speaker 2>are deep faith. But there's also something else that was

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<v Speaker 2>happening behind the scenes got less attention that's really intertwined

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<v Speaker 2>with it, which is that standalone grock app actually goes

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<v Speaker 2>further on the stand alone app than in x the platform,

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<v Speaker 2>So when users download the app privately, they can actually

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<v Speaker 2>produce sexually explicit material.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, I've seen plenty of examples of producing.

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<v Speaker 2>Topless material, explicit pornography that's produced using this, and according

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<v Speaker 2>to some reports, there were cases of people on forums

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<v Speaker 2>on the Internet sharing what appeared to be images or

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<v Speaker 2>videos of Grock generated material that was sexually explicit of

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<v Speaker 2>people who appeared to be as young as eleven, twelve,

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<v Speaker 2>thirteen years old. That is unambiguously against the ward in

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<v Speaker 2>pretty much every country around the world. In Australia we

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<v Speaker 2>actually have online safety regulations on the Online Safety Act

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<v Speaker 2>that set requirements for providers of major online platforms such

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<v Speaker 2>as x such as grock, to set safeguards to prevent

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<v Speaker 2>the distribution also production of child sexual exploitation material using

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<v Speaker 2>their products. So breaking that can in the first place,

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<v Speaker 2>if it's kind of taken to court, it can end

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<v Speaker 2>up with a fine of up to closet to ten

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<v Speaker 2>million dollars and if you do it repeatedly, you can

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<v Speaker 2>even have your app legally forced to shut down or

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<v Speaker 2>to be removed from the app stores. In Australia, I

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<v Speaker 2>went to the Safety Commissioner and they told me that

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<v Speaker 2>they had received multiple complaints of image based abuse that

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<v Speaker 2>alleged that Grock was used in it. And so as

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<v Speaker 2>a result, the es Sator Commissioner has actually written two.

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<v Speaker 1>X and so how much power does the E Safety

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<v Speaker 1>Commissioner really have to crack down on this and to

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<v Speaker 1>try and stop it from happening.

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<v Speaker 2>So Commissioner is a role that has existed now for

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<v Speaker 2>a bit more than a decade, and it started out

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<v Speaker 2>as this Children's e Safety Commissioner and it was mostly

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<v Speaker 2>focusing on things like children being abused online cybruy abuse.

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<v Speaker 4>Since then, the role has grown a lot in One

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<v Speaker 4>of the.

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<v Speaker 2>Landmark parts of its development is the instruction of the

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<v Speaker 2>Online Safety Act at the start of this decade, they

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<v Speaker 2>gave it a variety of new powers, including the industry

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<v Speaker 2>codes and standards, and then they say, you need to

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<v Speaker 2>come up with basic guidelines that you think I needed.

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<v Speaker 4>To use your products safely.

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<v Speaker 2>You're going to write those, and then you're going to

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<v Speaker 2>propose them to me, the Safety Commissioner. And if I

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<v Speaker 2>think they're acceptable, then I will prove them and they

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<v Speaker 2>will become enforceable. If I don't think they're acceptable, then

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<v Speaker 2>I'll give another chance to.

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<v Speaker 4>Rewrite them, and otherwise I might write them.

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<v Speaker 2>There is this kind of explicit requirement at the moment

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<v Speaker 2>to stop your products from being used to disseminate or

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<v Speaker 2>to produce child sexual exploitation material. I think in this

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<v Speaker 2>example where Grock has clearly been producing sexual images of

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<v Speaker 2>young people and reportedly has been producing sexually explicit images

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<v Speaker 2>of young people. I think this is one of those

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<v Speaker 2>examples where X and Grok have clearly broken the law.

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<v Speaker 4>It's pretty clear that there is.

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<v Speaker 2>Potential damage being done against people, potentially Australians, that really

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<v Speaker 2>need to be counteracted by a.

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<v Speaker 4>Response from Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>And so yes, like writing to X is a good

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<v Speaker 2>first step to say, hey, how are you abiding by

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<v Speaker 2>these rules? As part of what I imagine will be

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<v Speaker 2>an investigation into whether they actually are explicitly abiding by them.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd like to see that split up, because you know

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<v Speaker 2>the damage is happening now.

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<v Speaker 1>And Cam, you have already touched on this a little bit,

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<v Speaker 1>but could you tell us more about the response that

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<v Speaker 1>Australia and other countries are getting from Elon Musk about

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<v Speaker 1>X and GROC.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean for a while Elon must kind of just

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<v Speaker 4>ignored it.

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<v Speaker 6>And then he said, obviously Grek does not spontaneously generate images.

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<v Speaker 6>It does so only according to user requests. When asked

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<v Speaker 6>to generate images, it will refuse to produce anything illegal.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, here's someone who says he is about free speech.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I think we've seen in some of his

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<v Speaker 2>other behaviors and maybe that's not a full commitment, but

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<v Speaker 2>certainly doesn't like any one, any government, to tell him

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<v Speaker 2>how to act and how his technologies can operate.

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<v Speaker 5>Now, the governments of Malaysia, Indonesia, and the Philippines have

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<v Speaker 5>banned the chatbot altogether. Britain and Canada have launched probes

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<v Speaker 5>into greg and the possibility of tougher penalties for Musk

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<v Speaker 5>are on the table.

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<v Speaker 2>But because there was an enormous widespread response from this.

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<v Speaker 4>The company that owns the social.

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<v Speaker 2>Media platform and the AII had limited some of its

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<v Speaker 2>abilities to do some of these things.

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<v Speaker 4>But like according to reporting, not really stopped it.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm fascinated to see what regulators will find out

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<v Speaker 2>and what they will do around the.

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<v Speaker 1>World coming up, should the Australian government stop giving money

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<v Speaker 1>to x.

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<v Speaker 2>Cam.

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<v Speaker 1>In the years since Elon Musk bought Twitter and turned

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<v Speaker 1>it into x it's really changed, and some news organizations,

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<v Speaker 1>certain government departments they've actually stopped using it and say

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<v Speaker 1>that they're worried about misinformation. So how has its user

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<v Speaker 1>base actually changed?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, one thing that I think isn't noticed

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<v Speaker 2>enough is that its user base has significantly reduced. In fact,

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<v Speaker 2>there was some data that came out Yesday, suggesting that

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<v Speaker 2>X's daily users on mobile.

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<v Speaker 4>In the US had halved over the last year.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's also telling the kinds of people who

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<v Speaker 2>remain on the platform. I mean, I think it has

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<v Speaker 2>largely become very popular among the right and the kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like file Rights, which was welcomed back with open arms.

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<v Speaker 2>I reported when el Musk took over, he overturned some

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<v Speaker 2>of the bands. We saw neo Nazis, Australian neo Nazis

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<v Speaker 2>flock back to the platform. We've seen people who were

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<v Speaker 2>banned for all kinds of terrible behavior come back on

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<v Speaker 2>the platform.

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<v Speaker 4>So the fact that there's.

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<v Speaker 2>All these you know, world leaders on their Australian departments

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<v Speaker 2>remaining on there, on a platform that increasingly is populated

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<v Speaker 2>by a smaller group of people who are kind of

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<v Speaker 2>from ICEE being like almost a little bit radicalized or

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<v Speaker 2>always putting up in many cases with some really terrible stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>It really boggles the mind. And you know, this thing,

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<v Speaker 2>this step where right in front of them, this platform

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<v Speaker 2>was being used to create and distribute these awful images

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<v Speaker 2>of people, really was personally a breaking point for me.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, like, you know, how can you be

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<v Speaker 2>Anthony alb and Easy, who I noticed exclusively announced his

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<v Speaker 2>response to what was happening in Venezuela on X, not

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<v Speaker 2>on his website, not on Facebook, exclusively on there. And

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<v Speaker 2>it's between pictures of you know, people who are being

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<v Speaker 2>put in like micro bikinis or whatever against.

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<v Speaker 3>Their will and cam.

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<v Speaker 1>Not only is the federal government still using X, they're

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<v Speaker 1>also using it to promote their work and for advertising

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<v Speaker 1>as well. Do you know how much they're spending on

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<v Speaker 1>advertising there?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so they continue to advertise on there as far

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<v Speaker 2>as I know. The last full number was I think

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<v Speaker 2>close to three million dollars a year, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>that was the full year after elle Mus took over,

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<v Speaker 2>so that was twenty twenty three.

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<v Speaker 4>We know, for example, as recently as last year, the Treasury.

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<v Speaker 2>Was still on there and advertising on there, so we

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<v Speaker 2>know that it kind of continues.

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<v Speaker 4>And that's one of the things.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, even if you accept that there's a platform

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<v Speaker 2>that you know, you need to be honest a world

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<v Speaker 2>leader to come to send that information, it's different to

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<v Speaker 2>be also materially.

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<v Speaker 4>Propping up this company by supporting it.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, the government has spent the last eighteen months

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<v Speaker 2>telling us that the safety of young people is the

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<v Speaker 2>utmost thing that they have. Also, you know, introduced federal

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<v Speaker 2>anti deep fake legislation and they say that they abhor

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<v Speaker 2>what is happening on these platforms, and they remain on it.

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<v Speaker 2>So the fact where like you know, the team social

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<v Speaker 2>media bans then.

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<v Speaker 4>Who's followed by reporting is one of those.

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<v Speaker 2>Things that I think, you know, the evidence is a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit less clear on. I don't think there is

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<v Speaker 2>anyone in the general public opposers stopping the production of

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<v Speaker 2>non consensual sexualized images of people.

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<v Speaker 4>It's unambiguous.

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<v Speaker 2>And yet the government remains, you know, not only supporting

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of the advertising, but also literally supporting it

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of putting its content on there.

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<v Speaker 4>So it's a place that people have to remain.

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<v Speaker 2>So, I mean, I think the government and Anthony Aveneze's

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<v Speaker 2>office gave me a statement being like, you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>cared deeply about this reactant on people's online safety.

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<v Speaker 4>I think that the words are very different to their actions.

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<v Speaker 1>Here, Cam, it's been great speaking with you, Thanks for

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<v Speaker 1>joining us.

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<v Speaker 4>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the news, the Commonwealth Renumeration Tribunal has tightened

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<v Speaker 1>the rules for politicians travel after last year's expenses saga.

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<v Speaker 3>It follows criticism of.

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<v Speaker 1>Taxpayer funded tricks claimed by ministers including Anika Wells, Don

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<v Speaker 1>Farrell and Michelle Rowland to take their families with them

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<v Speaker 1>two events like the Australian Open and major NRL and

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<v Speaker 1>AFL matches. The tribunal recommends family reunion travel be economy

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<v Speaker 1>class and that extra spending for ministers and other senior

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<v Speaker 1>officeholders be wound back. And New South Wales has extended

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<v Speaker 1>protest restrictions in parts of Sydney for another two weeks.

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<v Speaker 1>The laws were enacted following the Bondai massacre, initially allowing

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<v Speaker 1>the state's Police Commissioner to ban protests for the fortnight

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<v Speaker 1>following the mass shooting. However, the Commissioner noted that January

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<v Speaker 1>twenty six marches, including the Invasion Day March, could go

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<v Speaker 1>ahead as the restricted area would not include the protest's

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<v Speaker 1>usual congregation point of Hyde Park. I'm Nicole Johnston. This

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<v Speaker 1>is seven a m catulator