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Speaker 1: I'll get a team. It's you project. Hope you're bloody terrific.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to another installment. It's early in the am over

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Speaker 1: here in the thriving metropolis of Melbourne, down the bottom

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Speaker 1: of Australia. For those of you around the world, Hope

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Speaker 1: you're terrific. So last night, so Melissa is very excited

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Speaker 1: about today's guest, And yesterday I had a day of mayhem.

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Speaker 1: My mum wasn't well, ended up in hospital. I had

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Speaker 1: to drive four hours and do a whole lot of things.

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Speaker 1: So all the prep that I was going to do

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Speaker 1: flew out the window. All the meetings I had flew

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Speaker 1: out the window. God bless Mary. She's okay. Thanks everybody

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Speaker 1: for all the messages I get about my parents. Your ace. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: so the normal time that I would invest into researching

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Speaker 1: my guest kind of went out the window. And I

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Speaker 1: thought when I got home last night, I thought to

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Speaker 1: myself self, why don't you watch I watched all these

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Speaker 1: videos Melissa sent me, which were very impressive, But then

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Speaker 1: why don't you have a look at Leon's special? It's sure,

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Speaker 1: what is it? It's a doco? I guess he'll tell

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Speaker 1: me in a minute. On Netflix, and I thought, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I'm going to pretend I've watched it. They're

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Speaker 1: going to watch five to ten minutes of it. And

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Speaker 1: then and then I started watching it and I couldn't stop,

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Speaker 1: complete with tears, complete with all the It was an

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Speaker 1: emotional roller coaster. I was like a blubbering sixty year

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Speaker 1: old male. It was pathetic and joyous all at the

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Speaker 1: same time. So while I'm plugging that, that's called The

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Speaker 1: Kindness Within on Netflix in Australia anyway, So have a

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Speaker 1: look at that. That's really brilliant, Leon High. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: joining me, Hey, thanks for having me. What are you

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Speaker 1: up to today? Before we go back, like, what are

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Speaker 1: you doing in twenty twenty six? Because I know what

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Speaker 1: you were doing and what you've been doing. What are

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Speaker 1: you doing now?

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Speaker 2: That's going to be a bit of a boring answer

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Speaker 2: on my fred I'm kind of just doing nothing in limbo.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't see limbo. I think it's a I created

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Speaker 2: nothing for myself on purpose.

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Speaker 1: H good, I think it. How do you sit with nothing?

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Speaker 1: A lot of people are terrible in the middle of nothing.

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Speaker 1: And it's a really brave answer because people tend to

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Speaker 1: want to go, Yeah, I've got a lot of things

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Speaker 1: in the pipeline. We're just working on this and we're

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like, what are you doing? Fuck all?

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Speaker 2: Great?

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Speaker 1: How is it? What are you doing? I'm doing? Fuck all?

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Speaker 1: How is it? It's really good? I tell I tell

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Speaker 1: all of my peeps and some of my clients and audiences,

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Speaker 1: and we talk about fuck all days, how amazing they are.

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Speaker 1: And some people have fuck all months or even years,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure, just to hit the pause button and try

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Speaker 1: to figure out where they're at and what's what do

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Speaker 1: you how do you use your fuck all time?

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Speaker 2: Well? Look, I did a lot and I think I

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Speaker 2: burned myself out and make I made a conscious decision

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Speaker 2: that I was going to do nothing until I felt

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Speaker 2: a true urge to do something beautiful. And I feel

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Speaker 2: the urge coming back a little bit, but not enough

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Speaker 2: to stop doing nothing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, what do you think it is? The

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Speaker 1: you know, it's we talk about I don't know in

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Speaker 1: the States where you're at, in England, where you're from,

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Speaker 1: the busy badge. It's like being busy is a badge

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Speaker 1: of honor. It's like even when you say to people,

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Speaker 1: how are you, they'll say busy, Like they don't even

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Speaker 1: talk about how they are, they talk about what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: It's like this almost this social kind of tick. I'm busy, mate, busy,

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Speaker 1: flat out. What is that about the pride that we

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Speaker 1: take in being busy.

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Speaker 2: I think maybe if you tell someone that you're busy,

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Speaker 2: it means that you're important because you've got a lot

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Speaker 2: going on. Tell someone that you're not busy, then you're

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Speaker 2: not important and you haven't got a lot going on.

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Speaker 2: I think maybe, yeah, maybe people always saying to me,

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Speaker 2: They're always say to me, oh, you're so, and in

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Speaker 2: the back of my head, I'm like, no, I'm not.

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Speaker 2: You're probably actually the first person I've fully truly said

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Speaker 2: I'm just not doing anything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's amazing, I think, and especially if

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Speaker 1: you can go I'm not doing anything and I'm really good.

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Speaker 1: I'm happy, like and doing not much for me right

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Speaker 1: now exactly what I need to be not doing, which

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Speaker 1: is good. So as much or as little as you want.

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Speaker 1: And I hate questions like this, but we can't really

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Speaker 1: move forward without people having any context over who you

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Speaker 1: are and what you do. And rather than me reading

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Speaker 1: some bio that I found somewhere can you give people

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Speaker 1: an insight into who you are and a little bit

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Speaker 1: of your background and where you grew up in all

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Speaker 1: of that, and kind of what inspires you, and then

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Speaker 1: we'll unpack a few different bits, if you would sure.

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Speaker 2: So, I grew up in London. I was a broker

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Speaker 2: in the city of London, and I had everything you

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Speaker 2: could have a want on the outside on the inside,

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Speaker 2: and no one knew. I was totally broken, and I

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Speaker 2: thought that was going to be my life. Fortunately, and luckily,

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Speaker 2: I stumbled across the movie The Motorcycle Diaries, which is

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Speaker 2: a romanticized version of Jacovara traveling around South America and

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Speaker 2: relying on kindness. I watched that movie and it just

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Speaker 2: lit up something in my soul. And to cut a

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Speaker 2: long story short, I quit my job and I started

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Speaker 2: to travel around the world lying on kindness. I hitchhiked

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Speaker 2: from Times Square to the Hollywood Sign. I went from

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Speaker 2: the Eiffel Tower to Red Square in Moscow. I purchased

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Speaker 2: a vintage taxi and drove it across America, giving free

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Speaker 2: camp rights to people. I started writing books, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: et cetera, and then I kind of fell back into

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Speaker 2: the old patterns and was running a production company in Hollywood,

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Speaker 2: and I had another moment. I like having kind of breakdowns,

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Speaker 2: it seems every few years. And I was walking on

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Speaker 2: Hollywood Boulevard saw this chap homeless guy with a sign

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Speaker 2: that said Kindness is the best Medicine. And I had

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Speaker 2: another epiphany. And this time I decided to quit my job,

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Speaker 2: stop running my production company, buy a vintage Jeller motorcycle,

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Speaker 2: and drive it from Los Angeles all the way around

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Speaker 2: the world back to Los Angeles with no money, no food,

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Speaker 2: no gas, no place to stay. All I had was

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Speaker 2: relying on your listeners, people like you kindness and that

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Speaker 2: was a life changing experience. I came back after that.

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Speaker 2: Then I did it again. I went from March, Alaska

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Speaker 2: all the way down to Argentina in a fifty year

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Speaker 2: old beetle And you know, I thought I'd reached a

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Speaker 2: pinnacle of life. My life so on Netflix, speaking in stadiums,

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Speaker 2: best selling books, busy, Busy, busy, busy, right, And I

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Speaker 2: realized that I wasn't. I'm very proud of my success,

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Speaker 2: I'm very proud of the lives we touched, I'm very

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Speaker 2: proud of everything. But I had a very very dark

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Speaker 2: night of the soul. I don't know a dark night

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Speaker 2: of the soul. It can't say very very It was

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Speaker 2: a dark night of the soul. And I found myself

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Speaker 2: in my house up on a hill writing a suicide note,

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Speaker 2: believe it or not. And I wrote it, and I

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Speaker 2: don't think I was going to act on it, but

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Speaker 2: I did write it, and I ended up I had

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Speaker 2: the courage to call my therapist. I called him some

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Speaker 2: random time and he happened to pick it up, which

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Speaker 2: is quite amazing, and he took me down. And the

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Speaker 2: next day I found myself walking in Venice Beach and

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Speaker 2: I walked into a bookshop which I've been to I

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Speaker 2: don't know fifty times, sixty times, and I saw this

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Speaker 2: book on the shelf, The Autobiography of a Yogi. And

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Speaker 2: I've seen that book many many times, but I'd never

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Speaker 2: picked it up. This time I picked it up and

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Speaker 2: I randomly opened it to a random page and a

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Speaker 2: random paragraph, and I read that he was talking to

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Speaker 2: his soon to be guru. He says, if you reveal

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Speaker 2: God to me, I will follow you anywhere to me.

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Speaker 2: The word God doesn't it doesn't mean the person living

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Speaker 2: up in the sky with the beard. It was the

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Speaker 2: universal energy of love. I read that one sentence and

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Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, I'm going to go to India

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Speaker 2: to find God and I'm not coming back until I do.

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Speaker 2: Obviously I like doing dramatic things, right, So I did.

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Speaker 2: I went to India, I brought along the film crew,

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Speaker 2: and I mean I came back, so I gave away

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Speaker 2: the whole movie. But that's that's really what happened. And

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Speaker 2: and I kind of got connected to spirit and got

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Speaker 2: connected to soul. Do I do it perfectly? Absolutely not.

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Speaker 2: Do I still get depressed? Absolutely? Do I have bad days? I? Do?

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Speaker 2: I have good days?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 2: And after that film was when I decided Busy, Busy,

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Speaker 2: Busy Leon was going to be replaced with do nothing

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Speaker 2: Leon until you're ready to start the process again. That's

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Speaker 2: the shortest version I can give you of the past

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Speaker 2: twenty years.

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Speaker 1: Man, it's amazing. It's amazing, and so I love the

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's impulsive. It's not impulsive, I

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Speaker 1: guess because you've given a lot of thought. But incredibly

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Speaker 1: brave and what do you think it is about humans? That?

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Speaker 1: And again, this is just two blokes talking. Neither of

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Speaker 1: us are guru's that's well, you might be.

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Speaker 2: I'm not.

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Speaker 1: What do you think it is? You've got a fucking

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Speaker 1: hint of guru about you? What do you think it

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Speaker 1: is about the human condition that we struggle so much

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Speaker 1: to be content or satisfied because it seems like no

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Speaker 1: matter where we are or what we have, we're not

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Speaker 1: content with lights. There's always got to be something next,

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Speaker 1: something or something bigger, something better, something shiny. What do

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Speaker 1: you think just your opinion? What is that about?

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Speaker 2: I think that again, it's just my opinion. I could

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Speaker 2: very well be wrong, but I think that it's biologically

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Speaker 2: implanted into us. And you know, biologically we have been

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Speaker 2: trained to always think something terrible is about to happen.

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Speaker 2: If you're living in a cave, you go out, you

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Speaker 2: have to be like, okay, am I going to get

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Speaker 2: eaten by lion or not? And if you don't think

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Speaker 2: that you are going to get eaten by lion? Right, So,

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Speaker 2: our brains and the human condition always goes towards the negative,

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Speaker 2: and it's about kind of making that pendulum swing more

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Speaker 2: to the positive whilst not forgetting that there's negative. There's

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Speaker 2: bad things that go on in the world, and for example,

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Speaker 2: with The Kindness Diaries, the book and the show. I

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Speaker 2: specifically put things in that book that would really bad things,

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Speaker 2: things like the killing fields, slave dungeons. I did that

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Speaker 2: on purpose, extermination camps, because I don't want to just

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Speaker 2: show the light. That's that you can get blinded by

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Speaker 2: the light. There is light and there is darkness. You

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Speaker 2: have to be aware of both of them. So it's

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Speaker 2: called the Kindness Diaries. But each episode of the of

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Speaker 2: the show has some some some pretty dark things as

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Speaker 2: well as in the Kindness within the film, it's I

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Speaker 2: don't want to give this way, but it starts off

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Speaker 2: in a way that's pretty dark, right, and then it

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Speaker 2: becomes light.

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Speaker 1: Yes, what is What is the relationship between kindness and happiness?

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Speaker 1: Do you think or I don't know. Kindness isn't care

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to think when we think about kindness the

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Speaker 1: act of to me, it's like being somewhat selfless, where

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Speaker 1: you're doing something for someone with no agenda. You're not

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Speaker 1: it's not a it's not a strategy, it's not a transaction.

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Speaker 1: What's the relationship?

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Speaker 2: Do you know what? I will disagree there and I

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Speaker 2: will say that kindness is not selfless. What do I

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Speaker 2: mean by that so someone can say, oh, mother to Raser,

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Speaker 2: such a selfless person. Yeah right, the dell Alama, such

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Speaker 2: a selfless person. But if I'm kind to you, I

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Speaker 2: win as well because I get to feel that magic

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Speaker 2: glow of of of of being kind of being loving.

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Speaker 2: It is a win win. You win and I win.

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Speaker 2: We both win. So it's not selfless. My kindness to

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Speaker 2: you makes me feel better.

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Speaker 1: I like at fifteen love you, You're up one good?

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Speaker 1: What did you learn about? And I'm sure it's a

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Speaker 1: million things, but does anything come in near the top

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Speaker 1: of the list, Like and you've done a myriad of things,

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Speaker 1: but what have you learned about you?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: What when you're in that depressive state and when you

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Speaker 1: went through.

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Speaker 2: Was it?

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Speaker 1: Did you say ten years of kind of blah?

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Speaker 2: Was that was that you? Not not ten years?

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Speaker 1: But you went through a period of whatever? Being company is? What?

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Speaker 1: What does current you now know and understand that that

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Speaker 1: version of you didn't.

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Speaker 2: When it cut that version of me being the one.

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Speaker 1: Who I'm not clear, sorry, the one who was like

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Speaker 1: back when you were a trader, you were pumping and

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Speaker 1: then you you know, it's like you had everything but nothing,

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Speaker 1: And I feel like I talk about this a bit

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Speaker 1: like from the outside looking in, you were successful, but

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Speaker 1: maybe from the inside experience out, you were perhaps spiritually

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Speaker 1: or emotionally or socially or whatever bankrupt.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I was totally spiritually and emotionally bankrupt. And what

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Speaker 2: happens from what I experience in the world is that

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Speaker 2: there are people out there that concentrate entirely for good reasons,

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Speaker 2: but they concentrate entirely on making money, on ego, on status, etc.

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Speaker 2: Et cetera, et cetera. They have been told that if

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Speaker 2: you do that, you will become successful and everything will

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Speaker 2: work itself out. There's no doubt that if you work

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Speaker 2: hard well, if you work hard, if you make money,

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Speaker 2: if you do things like that, you will become successful

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Speaker 2: to the way that the world sees success. But that

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Speaker 2: doesn't guarantee by any stretch of imagination, and it may

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Speaker 2: in fact take you further away from the true success,

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Speaker 2: which is how you feel inside and how you show

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Speaker 2: up in the world. And again I'm not espousing perfection.

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Speaker 2: You know. It's so interesting because, as you know, I

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Speaker 2: do speeches, and I got a question once from a

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Speaker 2: kid because I do school speeches, and the kid puts

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Speaker 2: his hand up his I don't know, maybe ten whatever,

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Speaker 2: and he says, mister Leon, and mister Leon, have you

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Speaker 2: ever been mean? And I immediately think to myself, Oh

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Speaker 2: my god, I'm going to lie to the child. I

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Speaker 2: am going to lie to the child, right, And then

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Speaker 2: I thought to myself, No, you're not going to lie

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Speaker 2: to the child. You're going to tell the child the truth.

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Speaker 2: And I said to him, of course I've been mean

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Speaker 2: because I'm human just like you, and I have good

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Speaker 2: days and I have bad days. Right, So it's no,

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Speaker 2: it's never about perfection. And this is why sometimes when

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Speaker 2: I hear the true gurus or people who are out

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Speaker 2: in the world espousing goodness and spirituality, and I don't

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Speaker 2: hear them talking about the negative side of things. I

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Speaker 2: hear them just talking about their magnificence. That's not truth.

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Speaker 2: It's just not There isn't a person out there that

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Speaker 2: hasn't at some time in their life been an asshole,

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Speaker 2: being unpleasant, done something they're not proud of. So, like

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Speaker 2: I said, there's light and there's darkness. One has to

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Speaker 2: feel and understand both of them. For ourselves as well

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Speaker 2: as well as other people. There is no perfection none.

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Speaker 1: So interesting. One of the things I'm terrible at many things,

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Speaker 1: but one of them is asking for help. I was

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Speaker 1: watching you last night. I'm like, well, that's one of

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Speaker 1: the things that I couldn't do on this little, little,

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Speaker 1: this little epic journey of yours. And I thought, I'm

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason, or maybe I guess I called it

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Speaker 1: if I had to, But just the thought of asking

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Speaker 1: ranges for help when you really didn't, like you didn't

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Speaker 1: need you just put yourself in that situation to I

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Speaker 1: guess have an experience and learn and grow and all

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Speaker 1: of those things. But I'm thinking, how did you go

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Speaker 1: with that? Like, you're a guy who financially and practically

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Speaker 1: you don't need to go and ask people for things,

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Speaker 1: but you put yourself in a situation were required to.

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Speaker 1: How was that emotionally and mentally?

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Speaker 2: So I'm an introvert. You may not, you may not

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Speaker 2: feel that way when you watch the shows, you look

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Speaker 2: at the books, et cetera. But I'm an introvert. And

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Speaker 2: as a kid, I was very shy. I couldn't even

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Speaker 2: walk down to the lunch hall at school because I

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Speaker 2: was too shy. Right, So what I did, without realizing it,

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Speaker 2: this was an unconscious thing. What I did was I

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Speaker 2: always had. I grew up privileged, right in the sense

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Speaker 2: of finance, the finances, but I didn't grow up privileged

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Speaker 2: in the sense of emotions. So what I did was

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Speaker 2: I flipped it. I forced myself to go out into

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Speaker 2: the world with no money. Right, Okay, it's an experiment.

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Speaker 2: It's a TV shows, but no money, So there goes

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Speaker 2: the privilege in this experiment. Yet I had to force

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Speaker 2: myself to connect with people emotionally. So it is I

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Speaker 2: put myself into a box where I think I like

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Speaker 2: going up to strangers. I don't do it in my

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Speaker 2: daily life where I got up to strangers and I'm like, oh, hello,

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Speaker 2: can you help me? I mean I couldn't. I could

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Speaker 2: now because I've done it so many times. But I

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Speaker 2: understand that it's not a simple thing, right Like, first

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Speaker 2: of all, they could say no, and many people did.

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Speaker 2: They said no, and that's not fun when someone says no.

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Speaker 2: So I'm not going to help you. So it's a

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Speaker 2: self protection mechanism as well.

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Speaker 1: I believe, of course, what did you learn? Okay to

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Speaker 1: that then, so where that becomes there are certain dynamics

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Speaker 1: involved in here's a stranger approaching someone and wanting something

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Speaker 1: from the someone that they've never met. Yes, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: the way that you went about that, like from attempt

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Speaker 1: one to attempt five hundred, was quite different. What changed

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Speaker 1: either with language or approach or I don't know, process,

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Speaker 1: How did that evolve? So you got for one of

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Speaker 1: a less dry term a better ROI.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good one. Look, it was a TV show,

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Speaker 2: which made it easier, meaning that I didn't go up

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Speaker 2: to people immediately with a camera. But the moment they

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Speaker 2: realized it was a show, right, they were like, I

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Speaker 2: will not be murdered by this man. Okay. Yeah. The

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Speaker 2: sense of safety, yeah, their sense of safety was was

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Speaker 2: you know, they fell sick. Even though they felt safe,

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Speaker 2: you still have to do it in a very specific way.

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Speaker 2: I was very careful with my distance when I first

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Speaker 2: spoke to people, right, and I would always I would

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Speaker 2: always stand outside of their energy field so that they

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Speaker 2: would feel safe. I would always come with a I

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Speaker 2: would always come with a story depending on the situation.

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Speaker 2: So for example, if I was talking to them with

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Speaker 2: my yellow motorbike in view, I would say, look, I'm

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Speaker 2: that's my yellow motorbike. I'm traveling around the world, relying

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Speaker 2: entirely on the kindness of strangers, and you seem pretty

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Speaker 2: kind and then laugh and then you know. So there

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Speaker 2: were lots of different ways, depending on how the situation was,

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Speaker 2: what they were like, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: And did I always succeed now, of course not. I

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Speaker 2: failed miserably most of the time. Yeah, but it made

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Speaker 2: me understand the human condition. It made me understand how

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Speaker 2: to communicate with people. You just you know, micro expressions,

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Speaker 2: the energy. For example, if there's a woman with some kids,

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Speaker 2: probably you know, I'm a guy, I'm probably not going

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Speaker 2: to talk to them. You know, I may do, I

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Speaker 2: may not. It depends on the situation. So it's it's

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Speaker 2: it's a It was a It was really a social

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Speaker 2: experiment in many ways as well, and I learned so much. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It was also an experiment in psychology, trying to understand,

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Speaker 1: trying to understand. So there's a theory in psychology called

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Speaker 1: theory of mind, which is understanding how other people think.

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Speaker 1: And you would like this. My PhD is around a

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Speaker 1: thing called metaperception, which is your ability to understand the

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Speaker 1: leon experience for others.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's a good one.

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Speaker 1: So the question at the core of this research is

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Speaker 1: what is the what is the me experience like for

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Speaker 1: this woman with two kids that I'm talking to, or

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Speaker 1: for Craig on the other side of this chat, or

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Speaker 1: my friends or family, so, you know, and having some

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Speaker 1: level of insight into how other people think or perceive

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Speaker 1: or process in real time, Like in this moment you

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Speaker 1: and I are chatting. We're in the same chat, but

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Speaker 1: we're not in the same experience because my brain's not

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Speaker 1: yours and vice versa. Yeah, trying to have some insight

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Speaker 1: into what is this like for them? And I would

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Speaker 1: think you probably never heard of that term, but I

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Speaker 1: would think you're probably quite good at both theory of

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Speaker 1: mind and met a perception because of your real world experience.

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Speaker 1: So whereas you are constantly making and adjusting to micro

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Speaker 1: judgments in the moment to think how do I best

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Speaker 1: navigate this interaction and create a good outcome, although you're

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Speaker 1: not logically thinking of those questions, you're just doing it.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what. I'm so glad you told me

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Speaker 2: those two things because that's pretty much exactly what I do.

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Speaker 2: And I'm going to research those two things. I've got

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Speaker 2: to remember them, but I'm going.

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Speaker 1: To we'll have when we finish, we'll have a chat

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Speaker 1: for a few minutes and I'll give you those Okay.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, because it's it's a skill. It's a skill

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Speaker 2: that I learned well. And I didn't realize what the

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Speaker 2: skill was until you just told me.

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Speaker 1: Well you, I would think you're and talking to you

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Speaker 1: now like you are an introvert, but you don't come across,

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Speaker 1: but you are. You're a good communicator. And what I

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Speaker 1: like about talking to you, I'm not pissing in your pocket,

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Speaker 1: as Australian say, but sometimes I get people on. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've done this thousands of times and it's very yes, no,

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Speaker 1: it's very It's almost like their role playing. It's like

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Speaker 1: I'm talking to a persona but that's not you, right,

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Speaker 1: this is organic. It's a bit messy. Our listeners don't know.

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Speaker 1: But a minute ago someone walked in, we had a

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Speaker 1: brief break. It's all doesn't matter. And my constant feedback

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Speaker 1: about this show is I like it because it doesn't

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Speaker 1: sound like an interview. It sounds like two people chatting

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Speaker 1: about stuff and that, you know, being able to learn

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Speaker 1: from each other. I'm going to learn more from you today.

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Speaker 2: But you know.

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Speaker 1: When you were grown up, said, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you had this, but I grew up in a very

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Speaker 1: religious environment, so I always had which was good and bad,

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Speaker 1: but I had always and I still have like what

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Speaker 1: I would call a god curiosity. I don't even know

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Speaker 1: what that means, right, But you sound like the same.

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Speaker 1: Have you arrived at any concrete conclusions or are you

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Speaker 1: still on the journey?

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Speaker 2: So I would say that I'm still on the journey,

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Speaker 2: but I have also reached some concrete conclusions. So when

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Speaker 2: I was in India for the film, I ended up

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Speaker 2: going to the Golden Temple, which is the holiest site

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Speaker 2: for the Sikh religion. And next to the Golden Temple

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Speaker 2: there was a kitchen and they call it God's Kitchen, right,

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Speaker 2: And I walked into God's Kitchen and I sat there

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Speaker 2: from two three hours helping they feed one hundred thousand

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Speaker 2: people a day for free. And there was something about

430
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 2: that place that I was truly extraordinary. And it was

431
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 2: in that moment in God's Kitchen that I realized that

432
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 2: if God is love, which ultimately it is the universal

433
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 2: energy of everything that ever has been, everything that ever

434
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 2: will be, and everything that is coming right. If that

435
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 2: is what God is, then I have experienced God, and

436
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 2: every single one of us has experienced God. If God

437
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 2: is the man up in the clouds with the white beard,

438
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 2: you know, if some people want to want to experience

439
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 2: that as God, then God bless them. Right. For me,

440
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 2: it was that experience of love that was universal in

441
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 2: all of us, and in didn't have a face, It

442
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: didn't have it didn't have anything. It was feeling. And

443
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 2: I realized as well that you can't explain God it is.

444
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: You have to feel it. And if you feel it,

445
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 2: you know. And it was a truly it was a

446
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 2: life changing moment. You know, when you have a moment,

447
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: even if for me it kind of lasted, but even

448
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 2: if you have a moment for two seconds, that felt

449
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 2: experience never leaves you know. Let's say you're an alcoholic,

450
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 2: right and you have this moment moment of clarity where

451
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 2: you realize that it is killing you. You can go

452
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 2: back to drinking, but you can never forget that moment.

453
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 2: And that moment is the moment that I had in

454
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 2: that kitchen at the Golden Temple. I can never forget it.

455
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 2: I can be depressed, I can you know, not be present.

456
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,239
Speaker 2: I can be doing things that I'm not proud of,

457
00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:01,719
Speaker 2: but that moment never goes away. It will always come back. Wow.

458
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: I've had a few of those moments myself. I won't

459
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: boy you, but I had one like revelation like that

460
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: which blew my head off that I can't. I don't

461
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: want to forget, but I can't either. And I think

462
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: it's interesting because we're so or we think we are

463
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: anyway humans. We're so rational, we're so logical, we need

464
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: to understand everything, but so much about let's say God

465
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: or that spiritual journey or whatever falls into the spiritual basket,

466
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: like what's going on? It doesn't make sense in inverted

467
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: commas through a logical lens. But it doesn't because when

468
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: we say makes sense, that just means, oh, this doesn't

469
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: fit in with my understanding of how things work. If

470
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: I can't see it, touch it, feel it, measure it,

471
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: look at it, it can't be real. But sometimes the

472
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: most powerful things, or the most powerful moment or experiences

473
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: we have are kind of illogical but incredibly overwhelmingly transformative.

474
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: And I think this sounds weird, but especially as someone

475
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: who studies the brain and the mind. Like, it's our

476
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 1: need to try to understand everything, which I think sometimes

477
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: gets in the way of connecting with everything.

478
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:30,959
Speaker 2: One everything is not everything in a spiritual sense, and

479
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 2: understanding everything and feeling that moment of everything cannot be

480
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 2: figured out through logic, cannot be figured out through the brain.

481
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 2: I'm not telling you not to read, I'm not telling

482
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 2: you not to watch documentaries, and I'm not telling you

483
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 2: not to be clever. I'm just saying that the true

484
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 2: everything happens beyond the brain, beyond the mind, and that

485
00:28:54,800 --> 00:29:00,239
Speaker 2: moment you're like, oh my goodness, that's the reality and

486
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 2: the mask falls.

487
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: Now.

488
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 2: The trick, which I have clearly not managed to do,

489
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 2: is to have that mask fall always. Yeah, Like I

490
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 2: try not to watch the news, and in the past

491
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 2: four or five days, I've been watching the news, and

492
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: this morning I decided I'm not going to watch the news,

493
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 2: and lo and behold, I felt better just from one

494
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 2: decision to not watch the news. So it's it's a somatic,

495
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 2: felt experience. That's where the true magnificence happens.

496
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're just these imperfect creatures trying to figure

497
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: stuff out. Who have as you said to that young

498
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: ten year old boy who asked a very smart question, like,

499
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: you know, we do dumb shit, we do good shit.

500
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: We have good and bad days. We react out of love,

501
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: we react out of frustration, and this is the human experience.

502
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: It's just trying to I do the same thing. Like,

503
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: I'm quite logical and cerebral, but at the same time,

504
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: I intellectually understand that sometimes my mind is actually the problem,

505
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: not the fucking solution. You know, my mind gets in

506
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: the way of joy or bliss or calm or learning

507
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: or understanding. We think it's this all amazing or knowing tool,

508
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: and I'm so glad my mind works and all of that.

509
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: But at the same time, you know, my mind is

510
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: a storyteller, and some of the stories I tell myself

511
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: a complete bullshit and that. But when you don't realize

512
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: that your story is actually a story, not truth, then

513
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: your body believes that story is truth, and then that

514
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: becomes your lived experience and it's all based on not

515
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: much other than your own perception.

516
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: Yes, Indeed, the moment when we realize our stories are

517
00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 2: actually the things that are causing us the most pain,

518
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 2: that's an interesting moment, right, Like, Yeah, and sometimes often

519
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 2: our stories are just lies to ourselves.

520
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: Right, and we're always telling our sells stories to rationalize

521
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: justify what we do or what we what we believe.

522
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: And it's like I'm always talking to people about the

523
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: idea around not needing to be right and not needing

524
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: to win and not needing to be certain or not

525
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: needing to be comfortable, like life is uncertain, uncomfortable, unpredicted, unpredictable, unknown,

526
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: life doesn't give a shit about your feelings or emotions

527
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: or your bank balance or like, this is just this

528
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: is just where we are. And then in the middle

529
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: of all of that stuff that we can't control, you know,

530
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: and there will you know, this is the human existence.

531
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: We hate uncertainty, but we live in uncertainty, you know,

532
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: trying to navigate that the sense of calm and peace

533
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: and purpose is it's like an ever present challenge, Like

534
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: you and the news. You turn off the news, you

535
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: have a better morning.

536
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 2: M Yes, indeed, indeed, it's so true. It's a we've

537
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 2: forgotten yeah, right, we've forgotten who we are. And that

538
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 2: sounds sounds silly and like what was he talking about?

539
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 2: But when you have a moment of clarity, when your

540
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 2: body feels the truth in that moment, you remember who

541
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: you are, M M. And a couple of days ago,

542
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 2: I was having an argument, friendly argument with my friend

543
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 2: about something and I was adamant. I was like, I'm

544
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 2: right and you're wrong. I think they even said that

545
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 2: right And now as we're as well as and maybe

546
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 2: I was right, Actually I was no, I don't know

547
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 2: if I was. Uh. And and now because we're having

548
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 2: this conversation, because we're connecting, because we're in our hearts

549
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 2: and it's a beautiful moment, I don't care whether I'm

550
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 2: right wrong.

551
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: Difference in me.

552
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, in that situation of a conversation

553
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 2: with your friend, it's completely and totally irrelevant. But I'm

554
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: now in a different state, Like my mind is calmer

555
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 2: and I'm in venice. It's sunny, that's a good energy,

556
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: and it's all good. But we can flip in and out,

557
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 2: and the trick is to flip in and out less,

558
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: so to stay in the heart centeredness more, not lose

559
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 2: the mind. Don't lose the mind. Don't don't lose it.

560
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 2: Because there's some interesting people out there, interesting things are

561
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 2: going on. You have to stay aware. Don't the light

562
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: can blind you, don't let them find you.

563
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: Like before when I said, you know, but coming from

564
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: a place of kindness and selflessness, and you went, now

565
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: I disagree, and then you kind of I went, that

566
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: is so true, that is so true. It's like, oh, good,

567
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: you just taught me something, or you opened a door

568
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: in my brain where I'm going to look at that,

569
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: you know differently, but I think you know to what

570
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: we're talking about now, this you know, trying to find

571
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 1: whatever contentment piece enlightenment or a version of that, or

572
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: spiritual connection or you know, if we're talking about understanding

573
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: through not necessarily through cognition or logic, but just building

574
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: this new understanding or having this experience. The challenge is

575
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: for us, one of the challenges is yeah, and then

576
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: you've got to make a few bucks, and you've got

577
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: to pack the lunches for the kids, and then you've

578
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: got to put petrol in the current, you know. So

579
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: we can't ever really escape this, not that we need to,

580
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: but you know, we're always dealing with the minutia and

581
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: the practicality of life beyond the spiritual. And then it's

582
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: when you're in that life beyond the spiritual to try

583
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: to maintain for me, anyway, the challenge is to not

584
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: call the guy in the car next to me at

585
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: the lights of because he cut me off. Right, It's like,

586
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: you know, I'm now I'm just I don't anymore. But

587
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 1: I used to where I would you know, I would

588
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: turn into fucking Jekyl and Hyde in four seconds because

589
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: it wasn't It was something that I was in and

590
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: out of, still in and out of. But yeah, trying

591
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: to reconcile that that kind of I think it's almost

592
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 1: like that equanimity concept, you know, being the calm in

593
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: the chaos, you know, being able to be in the

594
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: middle of something that's imperfect and messy and clunky, but

595
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 1: not be determined by that in that moment.

596
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 2: Yes, and look, it's it's not easy because most of

597
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 2: us are in survival mode. Yes, And it's like, you know,

598
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 2: if you decide to go and live in a cave

599
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 2: in the Himalayas for thirty years, then okay, you're going

600
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 2: to become like a guru, right, Okay, But you know

601
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 2: we don't live in care We live where bonds are

602
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 2: dropping every day, we're angry with our partner, our kid

603
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 2: has gone, and like painted the house blue. I mean,

604
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 2: you know all these kind of crazy things. It's not

605
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 2: so simple. So you do it moment to moment, step

606
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,240
Speaker 2: by step, You start small, You make a commitment. Sometimes

607
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 2: people say to me, Leon, how on earth did you

608
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:26,919
Speaker 2: manage to get from where you were to where you are?

609
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 2: And in the answer is simple. I was committed to

610
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 2: become free, and the only way to become free was

611
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 2: to go down the spiritual route and face my pain

612
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 2: and face my darkness. I was committed. If you are

613
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 2: not committed to freeing yourself, you will never be free.

614
00:36:55,239 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that. Do you have like if if

615
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: I asked you, do you have a spiritual practice or

616
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: do you have any are there any kind of I

617
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: don't know guiding principles that are yours?

618
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 2: So you know, I would say guiding principle is I

619
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 2: know what it feels like when someone treats me disrespectfully.

620
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 2: I know what that feels like, and it doesn't feel good.

621
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 2: So I'm going to do my best, without perfection, to

622
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 2: treat you with dignity and respect. Do I fail? I

623
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:41,399
Speaker 2: absolutely do. But I made a commitment to go down

624
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 2: the road of love, to go down the road of

625
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: kindness as best as I can, And there are times

626
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 2: like there's a time I gave a speech. It was

627
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 2: a pretty large speech, and I was telling people to

628
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 2: be kind, obviously, and then I got on the plane

629
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 2: and the person on the plane, the student, is being

630
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 2: really kind of rude to me. And my first reaction

631
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 2: is to be routed back. And then I'm like, hold on,

632
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: did you not just give a speech about being kind?

633
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 2: Ye oh yeah, yeah I did. So I was like, okay,

634
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 2: be kind. When the plane took off, I saw the

635
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 2: stewart crying. Something was going on with her, right, So

636
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 2: my decision to be kind helped as opposed to my

637
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 2: decision to be mean, which would have made things worse. Yes, yes,

638
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 2: make a commitment to how you show up in the world.

639
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 2: You know what it's like when people treat you disrespectfully.

640
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 2: Don't do it back to the best of your ability.

641
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is maybe a weird question. I want you

642
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 1: to talk just for a minute, on your thoughts about Okay,

643
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: so we've spoken about God, how do you feel about religion?

644
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: For those who can't see, he's smiling, He's like, where

645
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 1: the fuck do I start, That's what he's thinking.

646
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 2: I'm also thinking, how do I say this without having

647
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 2: a fatwork put on my head.

648
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,919
Speaker 1: Well, can I just say one thing right before? When

649
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: you said if God is love, and it's spoken about

650
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: in lots of theological texts in the Bible, which I'm

651
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: most familiar with, it definitely says God is love. And

652
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: then I look around at religions and I'm like, well,

653
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: if God is love, then religion is not love because

654
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: a lot of what we see through religion is hate.

655
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: And I'm like, it's almost the antithesis. It's almost like

656
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: religion is the opposite of God. And I'm not naming

657
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: any religion even when within Christianity, and I spent a

658
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: lot of time in church after I grew up, I

659
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: became a fundamental born again I did the whole thing.

660
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 1: I preached on the altar, I was in boots and

661
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: all right, and I am probably the least perfect person

662
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,919
Speaker 1: that was in that church. But I saw so much

663
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: shit which was not godly. I'm like, oh, this is

664
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 1: just Oh, we're just role playing this thing here, you know.

665
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 1: So for me, that's why I asked that question, because

666
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 1: it almost seems like a juxtaposition.

667
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 2: So I would say that of all the religions that

668
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 2: I'm aware of, there is absolutely love that flows through

669
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:41,280
Speaker 2: those religions. Absolutely. I would also say that the religions

670
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 2: have been co opted by man, and man, if man

671
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 2: is not careful, goes down the road of power. So

672
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 2: they have co opted these religions in order to wield power.

673
00:40:55,239 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean that the ethos and the everyday

674
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 2: person who is connected to that religion isn't connected to

675
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 2: it because of the love. They may very well be,

676
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 2: but they have been weaponized.

677
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting. I've spoken about this probably too

678
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: much on this show, but you think about the fact

679
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: that there's like twelve major religions and like four thousand

680
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: minor religions, yet almost every religion goes where the one

681
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: true religion. I mean, even if you just unpack that logically.

682
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,359
Speaker 1: You know, one of the things I was thinking about

683
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: when I was watching your show last night, the kindness

684
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: within on Netflix everyone. I was thinking about, how do

685
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: you be? This is not a loaded question. I was

686
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 1: genuinely thinking about this because I think, when I'm talking

687
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: to a thousand people on a stage, how do I

688
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: not perform? Like? How do I be? I don't want

689
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 1: to bring the PERSONA want to be the bloke. I

690
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,280
Speaker 1: want to be the person I want to be, Craig.

691
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:07,280
Speaker 1: I want to be authentic, real, imperfect. But because also

692
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: I have these skills where I can talk and present

693
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: and razzle, dazzle and be funny and tell stories. How

694
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: do you be with a film crew all the while

695
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 1: trying to find some sense of direction or spirituality or

696
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 1: enlightenment while Brian's over there with a clipboard and Dave's

697
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: got the camera and someone else is holding a fucking

698
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: mike near you or whatever. How do you like? That

699
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 1: must have been just, I don't know, at least interesting

700
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: to navigate and try not to be a character on

701
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: a show.

702
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 2: So firstly, you very quickly forget there's a camera there,

703
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 2: right right. You always know right in the back of

704
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 2: your mind, because you're like, there's a camera. But I

705
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,800
Speaker 2: pretend the camera's just a character, it's just a friend,

706
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 2: it's just someone there whatever, And I just go as

707
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 2: open as and as genuine as I possibly can. That

708
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that there isn't some performance, right, of course,

709
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 2: it's a television show. I'm introverted generally, I don't like

710
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 2: speaking to people for five hours, right, But in the

711
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: show I have to. Yeah, because it's a show. Yeah,

712
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 2: but I'm still being genuine. It's like it's like a

713
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 2: magnified version of that part of my personality, which is extroverted. Yeah,

714
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 2: but it is. It is on some level it has

715
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 2: to be a performance because there are times when I

716
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 2: wake up in the morning and I don't want to

717
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 2: show up. I don't want to the work. I'm like,

718
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 2: just just leave me alone. But I have to. I

719
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 2: can't be like, well, sorry, guys, you know I'm not

720
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 2: working today, Just you know, just leave me alone. I

721
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 2: have to do what I have to do. So on

722
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 2: some level it is a performance, but it's a performance

723
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,800
Speaker 2: based on who I truly am. You know, I can't

724
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 2: create someone that I'm not. I'm not acting to create

725
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 2: something I'm not, but I am. I am magnifying who

726
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 2: I am, so that it's a the people who enjoy

727
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 2: watching it, right, because if my short as my introverted self,

728
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 2: people are going to be like, why am I watching

729
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 2: this english Man just being introverted. It's like, so I've

730
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 2: expanded and magnified my my, my, you know, extrovert itself.

731
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 2: And also I get to have these cool conversations with people,

732
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 2: and I get to ask these really cool questions and

733
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,439
Speaker 2: philosophies and learn about them.

734
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, that's really valid because you need at

735
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 1: the same time, you need to or you hope, to

736
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: create something that people want to keep watching. You don't

737
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: want people at the five minute mark going, oh my god,

738
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: let's watch Tom Cruise or whatever it is. You know

739
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like you want people plugged in. I,

740
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 1: like I said, I intended to just kind of get

741
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: a snapshot, and I kept watching and watching. So we've

742
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: got a few minutes. I would like three hours, but

743
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 1: we've got a few minutes. What about This is kind

744
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: of a cheesy question, but I'm generally curious in that particular,

745
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:29,439
Speaker 1: specially anyway on Netflix the kindness within? Was there a

746
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: single person that impacted you more than others, or that

747
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:38,399
Speaker 1: you were drawn to more than others, or left some

748
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: kind of impact on you.

749
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 2: Absolutely, there was a homeless guy who I I would

750
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 2: go up to people in the street and I would say,

751
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 2: can I stand your house tonight? Obviously, wouldn't just be

752
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 2: like that. I'd chat with them before and most of

753
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 2: them would say no, obviously, and some of them will

754
00:45:56,120 --> 00:46:00,280
Speaker 2: say yes. And this guy, I didn't realize it was homeless.

755
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 2: I asked him, and he didn't look homeless, and he said, look,

756
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 2: I'm really so I'm homeless. So, you know, felt a

757
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 2: lot of shame about that. I was doing obviously a

758
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 2: social experiment. I'm not homeless. And I was about to

759
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 2: walk off. He turns around, well, you know what, if

760
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 2: you want, you can stay with me tonight. I'll feed you,

761
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,280
Speaker 2: i'll protect you, and i'll give you some clothes. Wow.

762
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 2: And I was like what I was like? All right?

763
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 2: So I ended up doing just that, and he taught

764
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 2: me two profound lessons. Less Number one, kindness is free.

765
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,439
Speaker 2: If a homeless man with nothing can be kind, then

766
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 2: you have absolutely zero excuse. Second, true wealth is not

767
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 2: in our wallets, It's in our hearts. Now. Am I

768
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:49,439
Speaker 2: saying here saying give away your money?

769
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: No?

770
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:49,959
Speaker 2: Of course.

771
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: Not.

772
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 2: Am I saying don't become successful?

773
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: No?

774
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 2: Of course. Not am I saying don't love money? No

775
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 2: money is important. But what I am saying is the

776
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 2: truest of wealth is how you show up, how you

777
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 2: true people, is how you inspire people. That's how you

778
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 2: make people feel. And I learned those two lessons from

779
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 2: a homeless man. And he would always say to me,

780
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 2: he would say, Leon, you changed my life because we

781
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 2: ended up putting him up in an apartment and sending

782
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 2: him back to school. But the reality is I said

783
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,720
Speaker 2: to him, no, man, no, it is you who changed

784
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 2: my life, and he did. He absolute feeling of that

785
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 2: somatic feeling inside my soul, my heart, my body of

786
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 2: what he did for me that day never leaves. It's

787
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:36,919
Speaker 2: always there.

788
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you met God, bro.

789
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're right. I absolutely did earlier than

790
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,359
Speaker 2: I thought because I wasn't aware of it at that time.

791
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 2: But you know what, that's exactly what happened.

792
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, you met God.

793
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 2: Perfect.

794
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,720
Speaker 1: I'm writing that down. I think that might be the title. Hey, listen,

795
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,280
Speaker 1: I love you. You're amazing. I'm so grateful for your time.

796
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: Congratulations on your stuff and continued continued growth. I'm not

797
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 1: going to win. Wish you continued success, but continue growth

798
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: and learning and connection with people. Yeah, it's been nice

799
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: getting an insight into you and your life and your journey.

800
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: And thanks so much for being on the You project. Yeah,

801
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 1: no wise, thanks so much for having me. Thanks everyone,