1 00:00:01,290 --> 00:00:09,730 Speaker 1: I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to 7am. Australia in 2 00:00:09,730 --> 00:00:13,810 Speaker 1: 2066 will be older, richer and, according to the Treasurer, 3 00:00:14,010 --> 00:00:16,169 Speaker 1: transformed by artificial intelligence. 4 00:00:16,590 --> 00:00:21,190 Speaker 2: The AI revolution is the most consequential new emphasis since 5 00:00:21,230 --> 00:00:26,420 Speaker 2: the 2023 report and the biggest economic transformation. 6 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:26,750 Speaker 3: Of our lifetimes. 7 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: The latest intergenerational report says despite an ageing population, our 8 00:00:31,700 --> 00:00:36,650 Speaker 1: real incomes will be 55% higher by 2066. And Jim 9 00:00:36,690 --> 00:00:38,810 Speaker 1: Chalmers says AI will get us there. 10 00:00:39,610 --> 00:00:42,610 Speaker 3: Australia has positioned itself early and well. 11 00:00:43,050 --> 00:00:45,950 Speaker 1: But the same report says younger Australians aren't seeing the 12 00:00:45,990 --> 00:00:48,850 Speaker 1: same gains in income, wealth and home ownership as the 13 00:00:48,890 --> 00:00:52,660 Speaker 1: generations before it. So what does this report really say 14 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,500 Speaker 1: about our future and how much of it is political 15 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: wishful thinking? Today, Vice-Chancellor's Professor and Chief Societal Economist at 16 00:01:00,620 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: the University of New South Wales, Richard Holden, on what 17 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,300 Speaker 1: Australia could look like in 40 years and where the 18 00:01:07,380 --> 00:01:23,890 Speaker 1: economics end and the politics begin. It's Tuesday, September 22. Richard, 19 00:01:24,030 --> 00:01:28,210 Speaker 1: when you first read this report, what story did you 20 00:01:28,250 --> 00:01:31,530 Speaker 1: think that it was trying to tell us about Australia's future? 21 00:01:31,830 --> 00:01:33,070 Speaker 2: Well, I think it was trying to tell a pretty 22 00:01:33,150 --> 00:01:36,630 Speaker 2: upbeat story about Australia's future. I think it read a 23 00:01:36,670 --> 00:01:38,450 Speaker 2: little bit like a press release. There are a lot 24 00:01:38,470 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 2: of very familiar themes that the government's been emphasising for 25 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 2: several years now. 26 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:45,060 Speaker 3: It seemed very familiar. 27 00:01:45,380 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 2: So it looked like a report that was less bottom-up 28 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: from Treasury doing modelling and more crafted with a top-down narrative. 29 00:01:53,070 --> 00:01:56,630 Speaker 2: with analysis to support it. But it tells a fairly 30 00:01:57,090 --> 00:02:00,610 Speaker 2: optimistic future about the next four decades for Australia. 31 00:02:01,330 --> 00:02:03,530 Speaker 1: Well, let's talk more about what it's saying about the 32 00:02:03,590 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: future for young people, because there is this number in 33 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,180 Speaker 1: the report that claims that Australians will be 55% richer 34 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:16,470 Speaker 1: per person in 40 years' time. Can we interrogate that 35 00:02:16,810 --> 00:02:20,750 Speaker 1: a little? Are our next generation really likely to be 36 00:02:20,770 --> 00:02:21,510 Speaker 1: that much better off? 37 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:24,859 Speaker 2: Well, that sounds like a lot, but it's over 40 years. 38 00:02:25,580 --> 00:02:29,150 Speaker 2: And another way you could say it is if productivity 39 00:02:29,190 --> 00:02:33,389 Speaker 2: growth was more at the levels that it was in 40 00:02:33,870 --> 00:02:38,950 Speaker 2: the late 1980s, the 1990s, then instead of being 55% 41 00:02:38,950 --> 00:02:42,559 Speaker 2: better off, they'd be like two or three times better off. 42 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,060 Speaker 3: So really a lot better off, as much as three 43 00:02:45,100 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 3: times better off. 44 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 2: So Very small numbers compounded for a really long time 45 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 2: adds up to, you know, seemingly large numbers. So it 46 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,139 Speaker 2: sounds like a lot, but we've expected better in the past. 47 00:02:56,660 --> 00:02:59,780 Speaker 1: And the report does note the period of transition that 48 00:02:59,820 --> 00:03:02,489 Speaker 1: we're in right now and the instability that we face 49 00:03:02,550 --> 00:03:07,290 Speaker 1: in terms of the political environment, technology. Jim Chalmers, he 50 00:03:07,450 --> 00:03:11,110 Speaker 1: opened his speech talking about AI and calling that potentially 51 00:03:11,230 --> 00:03:15,110 Speaker 1: the biggest economic transformation of our lifetimes. So what is 52 00:03:15,169 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: the social and economic impact of AI. 53 00:03:17,900 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 3: Predicted to be? 54 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,530 Speaker 2: Well, AI is pretty central to the productivity forecast, which 55 00:03:23,590 --> 00:03:27,590 Speaker 2: really drives a lot of the GDP growth. growth forecast, 56 00:03:27,770 --> 00:03:31,239 Speaker 2: the GDP per capita. Now, that's forecast to be 1.2% 57 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,820 Speaker 2: on average over the four decades. Now, over our last decade, 58 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:41,430 Speaker 2: that number's been zero. So, it's requiring a step up 59 00:03:41,530 --> 00:03:44,330 Speaker 2: kind of starting now. And the way Treasury has thought 60 00:03:44,350 --> 00:03:47,550 Speaker 2: about that is about half of that 1.2% a year 61 00:03:48,030 --> 00:03:51,310 Speaker 2: coming from AI. And that's certainly possible. 62 00:03:51,340 --> 00:03:52,220 Speaker 3: I mean, I. 63 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:57,420 Speaker 2: Agree that AI is a transformational, once in a multi-generation technology. 64 00:03:58,220 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: The real question is how Australia goes about capturing those benefits. 65 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 2: And of course, that's speculative and that doesn't just depend 66 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 2: on government. It depends very much on the private sector, 67 00:04:09,340 --> 00:04:12,980 Speaker 2: you know, reorganising their whole operations around AI. 68 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:13,980 Speaker 3: And that will take a lot of. 69 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:18,700 Speaker 2: Work, but it's a very, very important component of the 70 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,690 Speaker 2: optimistic story that the IGR tells. 71 00:04:21,470 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: Which does sort of beg the question, though, that when 72 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,710 Speaker 1: it comes to delivering productivity, how much of what is 73 00:04:26,750 --> 00:04:29,250 Speaker 1: in this report is actual modelling and how much of 74 00:04:29,310 --> 00:04:29,810 Speaker 1: this is hope? 75 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 2: There's some hopium being smoked in the report for sure. 76 00:04:36,190 --> 00:04:39,270 Speaker 2: And while it's fair and the Treasurer emphasised this in 77 00:04:39,370 --> 00:04:42,410 Speaker 2: his remarks, yeah, he said no economist would bet their 78 00:04:42,450 --> 00:04:44,830 Speaker 2: life on something, you know, four decades out. 79 00:04:45,310 --> 00:04:46,590 Speaker 3: Go a little bit further than that. 80 00:04:47,150 --> 00:04:51,450 Speaker 2: I'm very fond of quoting the American baseball player Yogi Berra, 81 00:04:51,890 --> 00:04:55,660 Speaker 2: who said it's tricky to make predictions, especially about the future. 82 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,950 Speaker 2: And that's why in a sense, I wish that we would, 83 00:04:59,089 --> 00:05:01,510 Speaker 2: and the government in particular, but those of us who 84 00:05:01,550 --> 00:05:03,530 Speaker 2: commentate on it as well, would flip the script a 85 00:05:03,570 --> 00:05:05,890 Speaker 2: little bit. And rather than say, look, we've made some 86 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:07,900 Speaker 2: assumptions and here's what comes out the other end of 87 00:05:07,940 --> 00:05:11,060 Speaker 2: a complicated financial model, I'd rather say, where do we 88 00:05:11,100 --> 00:05:14,100 Speaker 2: want to be in terms of our social outcomes, our 89 00:05:14,140 --> 00:05:16,850 Speaker 2: economic outcomes, our national balance sheet? Where do we want 90 00:05:16,870 --> 00:05:19,349 Speaker 2: to be in four decades? And then what would we 91 00:05:19,390 --> 00:05:22,210 Speaker 2: need to believe in to get there, because that really 92 00:05:22,250 --> 00:05:25,090 Speaker 2: focuses the mind. That says we need 1% to 1.2% 93 00:05:25,089 --> 00:05:28,910 Speaker 2: productivity growth. We need AI to be really important. So 94 00:05:28,950 --> 00:05:31,890 Speaker 2: we better measure that every year. And I think that 95 00:05:32,170 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 2: the risk with the intergenerational report is it's a 24-hour 96 00:05:36,150 --> 00:05:38,500 Speaker 2: news cycle once every three years, and everyone sort of 97 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,340 Speaker 2: forgets about it. If it's to serve the purpose that 98 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,710 Speaker 2: Peter Costello set it up to do in 2002, To 99 00:05:44,750 --> 00:05:47,670 Speaker 2: be what it really can be, I think, we need 100 00:05:47,690 --> 00:05:52,070 Speaker 2: to hold government, all governments, more accountable on an ongoing 101 00:05:52,110 --> 00:05:55,190 Speaker 2: basis rather than it just being an exercise in prediction, 102 00:05:55,250 --> 00:05:56,270 Speaker 2: which is challenging. 103 00:05:56,950 --> 00:05:59,420 Speaker 1: Can we talk some more about what the original purpose 104 00:05:59,650 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: of these reports was? When the Treasurer at the time, 105 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:07,339 Speaker 1: Peter Costello, introduced them back in 2002, what were they 106 00:06:07,420 --> 00:06:08,380 Speaker 1: originally designed to do? 107 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,290 Speaker 2: To just give us a much longer-term picture of where 108 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:15,910 Speaker 2: we're headed as a nation, federal budgets have this four-year 109 00:06:15,990 --> 00:06:19,969 Speaker 2: so-called forward estimate period and is more focused on government 110 00:06:20,010 --> 00:06:23,070 Speaker 2: finances on the budget, understandably, it being a budget, and 111 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:24,900 Speaker 2: they have a little bit of stuff about what might 112 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,860 Speaker 2: happen a decade out. Costello really wanted us to take 113 00:06:27,900 --> 00:06:33,250 Speaker 2: a longer-term view centred around economic things like productivity, but 114 00:06:33,270 --> 00:06:36,150 Speaker 2: he also wanted to talk about the structure of society 115 00:06:36,270 --> 00:06:38,349 Speaker 2: and the aging of the population and who was going 116 00:06:38,390 --> 00:06:42,070 Speaker 2: to support an aging population as we went forward. So 117 00:06:42,110 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: it could speak to things like, you know, our fertility rate, 118 00:06:45,260 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 2: our immigration levels. And Costello famously enacted the, you know, 119 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,740 Speaker 2: so-called baby bonus to try and in some sense encourage 120 00:06:54,140 --> 00:06:57,180 Speaker 2: a higher natural population growth rate. So those kinds of 121 00:06:57,220 --> 00:06:59,700 Speaker 2: factors were very much on his mind. And I think 122 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: that was the original intention. 123 00:07:01,370 --> 00:07:05,270 Speaker 1: And so we're 24 years on from that original report. 124 00:07:05,510 --> 00:07:07,779 Speaker 1: How much of what it predicted bore out? 125 00:07:08,620 --> 00:07:10,380 Speaker 2: Some of it bore out, some of it not so much. 126 00:07:10,740 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 2: The economy hasn't done as well as we thought it 127 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 2: would back then. Population's grown faster than we thought it 128 00:07:15,980 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 2: would back then, in no small part because of relatively 129 00:07:19,180 --> 00:07:22,340 Speaker 2: high immigration rates. And much of that's been incredibly good 130 00:07:22,380 --> 00:07:25,690 Speaker 2: for Australia, but there's obviously a very active current debate 131 00:07:25,850 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 2: about those levels and what it means for infrastructure, housing 132 00:07:31,100 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 2: and hospitals and schools and roads and so on. So 133 00:07:34,860 --> 00:07:37,190 Speaker 2: that's been higher than we thought. Economic growth's been worse 134 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,210 Speaker 2: than we thought. To be fair, there was the 2008-9 135 00:07:40,810 --> 00:07:44,010 Speaker 2: financial crisis. We had a pandemic. We've now got big 136 00:07:44,170 --> 00:07:46,050 Speaker 2: oil shocks in the Middle East. I think that's one 137 00:07:46,150 --> 00:07:50,210 Speaker 2: thing that the report notably doesn't really grapple with. It 138 00:07:50,250 --> 00:07:54,620 Speaker 2: acknowledges things like oh, there's geopolitical tensions and it talks 139 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,100 Speaker 2: about how, you know, energy markets can kind of propagate 140 00:07:58,220 --> 00:08:00,660 Speaker 2: risk and so on. But these are really as breakout 141 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:05,420 Speaker 2: boxes rather than really being incorporated into the financial modelling 142 00:08:05,460 --> 00:08:09,500 Speaker 2: and the architecture of what the IGR does. One thing 143 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 2: I would have liked to see more of and would 144 00:08:11,020 --> 00:08:14,180 Speaker 2: like to see more of going forward is really an 145 00:08:14,220 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 2: ability to grapple with big questions like, well, what if... 146 00:08:18,020 --> 00:08:20,820 Speaker 2: there was a Chinese invasion of Taiwan. What would happen 147 00:08:20,900 --> 00:08:24,020 Speaker 2: if the US stopped being the global reserve currency? What 148 00:08:24,060 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 2: might happen if our four big banks all got into 149 00:08:27,580 --> 00:08:31,210 Speaker 2: massive liquidity crunches and had to be bailed out? Again, 150 00:08:31,250 --> 00:08:33,689 Speaker 2: they're very hard to deal with, but over the course 151 00:08:33,710 --> 00:08:36,590 Speaker 2: of 40 years, a lot can happen. And the discipline 152 00:08:36,610 --> 00:08:39,530 Speaker 2: of putting them through a rigorous financial model would tell 153 00:08:39,610 --> 00:08:43,469 Speaker 2: us how we need to be prepared for perhaps unlikely, 154 00:08:43,570 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 2: but possible big events that could be hugely disruptive. to 155 00:08:47,940 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 2: Australian society and the economy. I think we want to 156 00:08:51,420 --> 00:08:53,540 Speaker 2: be prepared for what those sort of implications would be. 157 00:08:53,580 --> 00:08:56,510 Speaker 2: We would have been better prepared for the pandemic if 158 00:08:56,530 --> 00:08:59,410 Speaker 2: we'd had an off-the-shelf plan. And that was something that 159 00:08:59,450 --> 00:09:01,670 Speaker 2: Bill Gates, you know, said it's probably going to happen 160 00:09:01,730 --> 00:09:02,850 Speaker 2: a decade before it did. 161 00:09:02,970 --> 00:09:04,930 Speaker 3: So I think we could do more to be prepared. 162 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: Coming up, the big economic reforms that we do need. Richard, 163 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: you said that this report, it reads a bit like 164 00:09:21,020 --> 00:09:25,230 Speaker 1: a press release, emphasising things that are already government policy. 165 00:09:25,950 --> 00:09:30,500 Speaker 1: And you were involved in a major review of the 166 00:09:30,500 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: 2021 version of this report. As part of that, you 167 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 1: argued that these reports, they should actually be made more 168 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,740 Speaker 1: independent of government. Can you talk a bit to that idea? 169 00:09:40,140 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. 170 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,740 Speaker 2: I think that They're currently conducted by Treasury and Treasury 171 00:09:44,780 --> 00:09:48,700 Speaker 2: have political masters. And I think a number of the 172 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,450 Speaker 2: topic areas and even the language that's used mirror press 173 00:09:52,470 --> 00:09:55,510 Speaker 2: releases and talking points and narrative arcs that the government 174 00:09:55,570 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 2: has used for the last you know, four years or so. So, 175 00:09:58,420 --> 00:10:00,740 Speaker 2: you know, like, I think if it was more independent 176 00:10:00,780 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 2: for a document like this, that's really meant to think 177 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 2: very broadly about the national interest over a really long 178 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:10,140 Speaker 2: period of time, one, making it more independent of Treasury, 179 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,030 Speaker 2: having maybe some kind of independent panel with input from 180 00:10:14,170 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 2: Treasury would be very useful. And I think The second 181 00:10:16,940 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 2: thing would be making all the economic modelling sort of 182 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 2: open source in a way. Let people play around with 183 00:10:23,380 --> 00:10:25,589 Speaker 2: their own views about what happens with that. Let them 184 00:10:25,620 --> 00:10:28,670 Speaker 2: plug it into other things. Make the work more available 185 00:10:29,030 --> 00:10:31,050 Speaker 2: than my understanding of what it currently is. That's what 186 00:10:31,070 --> 00:10:32,729 Speaker 2: I'd like to see. And that's what we talked about 187 00:10:32,750 --> 00:10:34,490 Speaker 2: in the wake of the 2001 IGR. 188 00:10:35,410 --> 00:10:38,090 Speaker 1: But not much has changed since then. No. 189 00:10:38,630 --> 00:10:41,750 Speaker 2: As the French like to say, the more things change, 190 00:10:41,790 --> 00:10:43,350 Speaker 2: the more things stay the same. 191 00:10:44,390 --> 00:10:46,700 Speaker 1: And so you've made the case that this report, it 192 00:10:46,740 --> 00:10:51,620 Speaker 1: doesn't really grapple with more difficult economic scenarios, and it should. 193 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: Does that extend to your thoughts on the government itself? 194 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,540 Speaker 1: Do you think that it's failing to make big decisions 195 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:01,790 Speaker 1: and big reforms when it comes to the economy? 196 00:11:02,410 --> 00:11:03,390 Speaker 3: I absolutely do. 197 00:11:03,410 --> 00:11:07,730 Speaker 2: I mean, we had an extraordinary run from 1983 through to, 198 00:11:08,010 --> 00:11:11,140 Speaker 2: you know, well into the 2000s. on both sides of 199 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 2: politics with Hawken Keating and Howard and Costello, we had 200 00:11:14,059 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 2: extraordinary prime minister treasurer teams and they took Australia from 201 00:11:19,140 --> 00:11:23,210 Speaker 2: what was a fairly insular economy, you know, really quite 202 00:11:23,250 --> 00:11:26,330 Speaker 2: disconnected from the world and really opened up Australia to 203 00:11:26,350 --> 00:11:29,969 Speaker 2: the world in a way that really benefited all Australians. 204 00:11:30,750 --> 00:11:34,230 Speaker 2: And since the GST, around about the turn of the century, 205 00:11:34,530 --> 00:11:37,500 Speaker 2: there really hasn't been a major positive economic reform since then. 206 00:11:38,420 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 2: And you don't have to change policy in a major 207 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,540 Speaker 2: way every couple of years, but it can't be set 208 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 2: and forget either. And when you haven't done anything meaningful 209 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:52,750 Speaker 2: in 25 years, it's not surprising that our policy settings 210 00:11:53,170 --> 00:11:57,330 Speaker 2: aren't really fit for purpose for the modern economy. 211 00:11:57,130 --> 00:11:57,870 Speaker 3: In which we operate. 212 00:11:58,490 --> 00:11:59,809 Speaker 1: Where do you think that boldness has gone? 213 00:12:00,350 --> 00:12:03,980 Speaker 2: I'm really torn as to whether it's about political leaders 214 00:12:04,100 --> 00:12:06,740 Speaker 2: and that maybe we're just really lucky to have those 215 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,150 Speaker 2: political leaders that I talked about in Hawke and Keating 216 00:12:10,190 --> 00:12:11,630 Speaker 2: and Howard and Costello and a whole lot of other 217 00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:15,050 Speaker 2: people who are incredibly capable and played an important role 218 00:12:15,170 --> 00:12:15,979 Speaker 2: in the background. 219 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 3: Maybe it's something to do with the public service. 220 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 2: You know, politicians tell me you don't understand what it's 221 00:12:20,380 --> 00:12:23,359 Speaker 2: like to be in a 24-hour news cycle and social 222 00:12:23,420 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 2: media and so on. Maybe that's part of the story 223 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 2: as well. Maybe it's the fact that we have had 224 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,140 Speaker 2: such a good run that the Australian public just demand less. 225 00:12:32,179 --> 00:12:33,250 Speaker 3: We're a little bit complacent. 226 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,350 Speaker 2: We just sort of say, well, other than briefly during 227 00:12:36,370 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 2: the pandemic, we haven't had a recession in You know, 228 00:12:38,980 --> 00:12:42,630 Speaker 2: since 1991, no one's really demanding reform because we're not. 229 00:12:43,050 --> 00:12:45,370 Speaker 3: Used to seeing bad news play out. 230 00:12:45,610 --> 00:12:47,870 Speaker 2: It's probably some combination of all of those things. 231 00:12:47,929 --> 00:12:50,329 Speaker 3: But yeah, I do wonder. 232 00:12:53,429 --> 00:12:54,809 Speaker 1: Richard, thank you so much for your time. 233 00:12:55,570 --> 00:12:56,170 Speaker 3: Great to talk to you. 234 00:13:05,830 --> 00:13:08,670 Speaker 1: Also in the news, New South Wales police have urged 235 00:13:08,730 --> 00:13:11,890 Speaker 1: the state government to throw every available resource at domestic 236 00:13:11,929 --> 00:13:14,510 Speaker 1: violence after a spate of killings over the weekend. A 237 00:13:15,170 --> 00:13:17,620 Speaker 1: Sydney mum is expected to be charged with the murder 238 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,300 Speaker 1: of one of her children and the attempted murder of 239 00:13:20,380 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: two more, all under the age of five, while three 240 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:27,330 Speaker 1: women were allegedly murdered in other domestic violence incidents. The 241 00:13:27,350 --> 00:13:30,210 Speaker 1: police commissioner says he can't remember a weekend like it 242 00:13:30,390 --> 00:13:34,300 Speaker 1: in his career. And all four big banks are now 243 00:13:34,340 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: forecasting an RBA interest rate rise next week. And it 244 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,530 Speaker 1: gets worse. ANZ is predicting there'll be a second rate 245 00:13:40,570 --> 00:13:43,309 Speaker 1: hike in November. If that happens, the cash rate will 246 00:13:43,350 --> 00:13:44,970 Speaker 1: reach 4.85%, its highest level since 2008. I'm Ruby Jones. 247 00:13:45,290 --> 00:13:45,590 Speaker 3: This is 7am. 248 00:13:45,630 --> 00:13:46,429 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.