WEBVTT - BONUS: Bondi Shooting: Inside Australia’s worst terrorist attack 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:04.880 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.800 Detective see a side of life. The average person is 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.080 never exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.040 For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.200 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.560 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.120 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.400 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.760 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.440 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.640 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.640 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.400 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:48.879 Welcome to a bonus episode of Ye Catch Killers. This 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:52.120 is an episode I wish we weren't having. At the 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.280 time of recording this episode, there's been a terrorist attack 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.400 at Bondo Beach less than twenty four hours ago. We 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:01.080 don't know exactly what this has happened, but this is 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:05.280 what we do know. About six forty five pm on Sunday, 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:09.480 the fourteenth of December, two gunmen shot multiple people at 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:14.200 Bondo beach. It appears the intended targets were people gathered 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:18.040 to celebrate the first day of the Jewish Honiker religious festival. 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:21.920 At this stage, one gunman has been killed. The other 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:25.120 is in custody and is in a critical condition. But 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:29.039 before the gunmen were neutralized by police, they had shot 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:32.919 and killed multiple people. At this stage, fifteen innocent people 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:35.960 had deceased and there's more than forty people that are 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:40.200 in hospital, some of with critical injuries. The incident has 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.199 been declared a terrorist incident by a New South Wales 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:46.600 Police Commission of mal Lanyon, the New South Wales Premier 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:50.960 and the Australian Prime Minister has condemned what occurred down there. 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.160 This truly is a sad day for all of Australia. 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:58.960 It's probably the worst terrorist incident we've had on home soil, 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:01.800 and my heart go out to all the victims, the 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.840 people who have lost their lives, their loved ones, the 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:08.480 injured people, anyone that was caught up in this senseless violence. 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:13.080 This really is a sad day for this country. Peter Moroni, 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:15.720 thanks for joining me on I Catch Killers. 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:16.440 Welcome. 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:20.839 Thanks, Sorry it's in these circumstances and yeah, it's less 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.960 than twenty four hours since the Bondai massacre, which has 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:27.200 been referred to the moment has occurred. I thought i'd 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:29.960 get you back on the podcast because of your expertise 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.120 in counter terrorism. You're a counter terrorist detective for a 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:36.440 very long time and worked on some major investigations with 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:39.840 the New South Wales Police and the work that doing 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:43.880 since retiring from the police is very much in keeping 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.440 with that. I just want to get your thoughts. So 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:50.080 the purpose of the podcast here is to give people 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:52.799 an understanding. I think we've all been shocked what we 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:56.799 started to witness on a Sunday afternoon, hot summer's night 0:02:56.880 --> 0:03:00.639 in Sydney where we're all settling down the phone star's pinging, 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:04.240 or if you're listening to the media, you're starting to 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:07.160 get at reports of the gunman or shots fired. That 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:11.120 was the first thing I heard, shots fired down in Bondi. 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:15.200 I thought a bit strange, but that didn't realize the 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:18.600 significantance of it. Then I got a text from my 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.840 daughter dad, have you seen what's going on in Bondi? 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:24.960 And that made me switch on the media and get 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.760 a sense of it. When did you find out about it? 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:30.760 Probably most people made I am monster. 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:32.799 I was having a beer at a maze place and 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:34.720 I've got a text I was one of the media 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:40.080 out there's actually and I just thought, I doesn't it's 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.320 not real. Yeah, it should be all right sort of thing, 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:45.640 or perhaps you know, not to downplay, but perhaps another 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:47.200 gang related shooting. 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:48.240 Yeah that's going on. 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:52.800 But as you say, the phone lit up and didn't 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:56.120 stop so and then you started to scroll through social 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:59.640 media and in came the links and got sent through 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:02.760 a few videos and there it started to resonate, and 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:05.080 you know, probably like a lot of people. Mate, you know, 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:06.720 we've been around for a little bit of time. But 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.960 I think the first thing was anger at just a 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:15.000 cowardness of what I was seeing on the video. Anger 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:16.839 was probably the first thing that stayed in my mind 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:17.719 for about an hour. 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:20.680 Just the random nature of it. You know, we've both 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.160 been in the police. We understand the power of firearms 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:26.480 and the damage they can do, and seeing long long 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:30.640 arms being used in the area like Bondai Beach on 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:34.760 a Sunday afternoon, that anger is probably a natural reaction 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:35.080 to it. 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:36.880 Yeah, you know, look at. 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:41.000 Not any probably different to any other bloke that's been 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:43.800 out of the cops now, but you still resonate and 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:48.000 understand that kind of act and what that type of 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.320 act is going to do obviously not only physical to 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:55.520 the people that are being shot, but the emotional issues 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:59.599 that are going to torment those victims, the victims families 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:03.520 and no doubt the first responders as well. Mate, that 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:07.160 there's a lot left over after that first shot rings out. 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:12.240 My understanding is it's the biggest a terrorist incident in 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:15.440 Australia on home soil. Would that be fair to say 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:16.240 that's it? 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.920 Certainly as I understand it that at this point in time, 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:21.120 as you and I speak, I understand there is sixteen 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.960 people that have unfortunately passed away up to forty that 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:28.560 are injured. There is no other and it's been called 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:30.600 for what it is. It's been called the Terrorist Act 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:32.839 and it would certainly have to be well, it is 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:35.880 the biggest terrorist based incident in Australia has ever seen 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:36.479 to date. 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:39.240 Yeah, and we're hoping we're going to avoid that. With 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:43.400 your expertise in counter terrorism, you understand the consequences of 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:47.599 when something like this can occur and the efforts that 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:50.760 and I know you've been involved in some investigations where 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.640 this type of thing has been prevented on large scales. 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.760 What's your sense or how difficult it is for police 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:05.280 to prevent these type of type of attacks. 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:07.680 It's a really tough question to answer. If I could 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:09.800 put it in the most simplest terms and explain it 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:14.440 is that law enforcement and Asia have dropped the ball. 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:17.599 And what I mean by that, respectfully, is that we 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:21.039 have sixteen people at this point in time dead from 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:26.280 a terrorist related incident. It's something that's going to come 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:30.360 to the forefront. And Commissioner Mallennion is an exceptionally smart man, 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.640 Mike Burgess equally, so they know those questions are going 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:35.240 to come. 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:38.720 How easy is it to stop? 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:45.640 It's probably a question that I struggle to probably give 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:49.040 you an answer because it depends on who is the individual, 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:54.640 Are they connected to a particular other individual, particular cell, 0:06:55.520 --> 0:07:01.320 particular certain faith, how much bridge we've got over those people. 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.000 So a whole lot of things come in, like people 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:06.960 just think that you could pick this person up and 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:09.320 there's a bit of a trend happening and we can 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:12.480 target them. And I think back to the first podcast 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.160 we did when I try to explain a lot around terrorism. 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.560 Is your breadcrumbs are gone, like you know, your indicators 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:22.000 are gone generally, So I have no doubt we'll trawl 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:26.400 over the next twelve months now and unpack those individuals' 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.800 lives and unpack the connections and all of those certain things. 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.320 But to try to go a long way around answer 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:36.200 real simple question for you, it's very difficult to prevent, 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:39.760 particularly now in terms of the ability for them to 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:44.120 communicate across multiple social media platforms, which buries it underground 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.520 even harder. It's still a lot still to come out 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:49.480 at the moment, whether these guys were part of a 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:53.120 greater grip or were they self radicalized and operating on 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:55.560 their own. If that is the latter is the case, 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:57.600 and it's going to be very difficult because it's just 0:07:57.600 --> 0:07:58.680 a father and son. 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:01.960 It's like there's two of them, but it's almost the 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:05.280 lone actor. Just there happens to be two of them, 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:08.240 and the relationship between the father and son there might 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.200 be one as a power and the other one is 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:16.280 a follower who knows what's happened? Was I watched and 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:20.360 you know, I was glued to seeing what had occurred. 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.520 I thought it was good messaging from the police. I 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:26.720 thought Mount Lanyon hit the points at such an early 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:32.240 early stage in the investigation, and yeah, if mistakes were made, 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:36.040 and I'm not saying saying they were with identified, I 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:40.240 think our response to this type of situation has improved 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:42.640 since the Linked cafe, and that was eleven years ago. 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:45.679 I thought there was and I was involved in that. 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:47.440 There was a little bit of chaos around that, but 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:50.440 a lot of lessons were learned, I think, sadly in 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:56.120 recent times. The BONDI the stabbings taught again about about 0:08:56.160 --> 0:09:00.199 the response. Watching from the outside, What did you take 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:04.000 away from the response by emergency services, not just police, 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:06.600 ambulance and everyone else that was heavily involved. 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:09.280 Yeah, look, it's you're right, you know that. 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.040 It's as sad as those past events are, we do 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:17.120 learn from them, and as you know, you take those 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:19.720 learnings and you plug them back into your operating procedures 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:22.240 to try to tighten those and go on. I've had 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:25.000 a couple of different pieces of commentary come at me 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:28.160 over the last six or so hours talking about the 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:32.080 police response, and I understand from what I've been told 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:35.120 that it was nine minutes from the first shot to 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:38.319 the last shot being fired. When they're killed or one 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:42.840 of them are killed a lot. Now the other argument 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:44.760 as well, the police are on the updrate, or there 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.200 were police working operationally at the time. 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:49.520 What I'd like. 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:53.000 To try to get across is that if I am 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:57.199 out there operating as a police officer, they will certainly 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.120 hear those shots. But I've spoke to people this morning 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.040 that was on the beach yesterday coming out of the surf, 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.320 and I was talking to one particular lady and she 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:09.359 said to me that she first thought it was fireworks 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:10.839 that was going off, and then it kicked in to 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:15.240 go what's daytime? Yeah, that doesn't that doesn't compute. And 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:18.360 then it's so she said to herself, well, it sounds 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:19.760 like a gun. And I said, how long did it 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:21.960 take it to actually resonate to go it is a gun? 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:23.559 She has minute and a half. 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:28.640 So I say that in that it's that idyllic Sunday 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.240 afternoon and no one's anticipating it. Now, let's look at 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:34.559 the police perspective, right, is they are there on the beach, 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:38.920 or they are on route, they would be getting bombarded 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:44.880 with multiple reports of a shooter or shooters. Yep, I 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:46.760 would have no doubt there, But it would have been 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:50.720 confusion about the number of shooters that were active. There 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:53.840 would have been absolutely confusion, I would imagine around the 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:56.480 type of weapon and why that becomes important. Go is 0:10:56.520 --> 0:11:00.240 you know, is it am I driving into someone with 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:03.480 a pistol a clock for example? On my driving into 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:07.000 as it was into someone who's got a long arm 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:09.480 that we've seen there from the footage that one of 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:11.960 the fellows had on. One of the rifles had a scope, 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:15.480 so that can obviously be designed to pick you off 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.160 from a greater distance. So all of these things are 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.480 going through the police's mind in terms of where they're 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:22.080 going to park, where they're going to pull up, the 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.800 offenders are on the go, how do they get across 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.079 to them? And I've seen footage of a young female 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:29.920 constable that was sort of leapfrogging up the side of 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:34.239 the cars to get out one of the offenders. It's overall, 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:36.520 you know, people can say, well, it's a police's job, 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:38.200 that's what you signed up to do. 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:38.800 Yeah it is, and. 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:44.040 Don't why not, don't argue that, but you know, look, 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:47.040 they still leaped into the fire. From all of the 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:49.920 evidence that I've seen, they still went at it. Knowing 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.600 full well that they could pay, and there's two police 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:56.520 that are being injured, and they did what they had 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.840 to do. And I think to date, unless anyone can 0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:04.040 come forward with any other suggestion of any other behavior 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:05.560 by the cops, I think they've done a hell of 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:08.240 a job. Now, is the nine minutes a long time? 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:09.240 It would be. 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:11.679 It is if you're sitting out there getting shot at. 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.800 But compound that to the police, because if the police 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:18.360 come in hard and fast and get taken out in 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:20.840 the first few minutes, no help to anyone. 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.160 They haven't achieved anything, nothing at all. 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.800 Well, I think the way you described that there outlines 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:30.240 the complexity of what happens in the situation like that. 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.760 Hindsight's a wonderful thing. We're all experts in the hindsight. 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:36.920 We did make improvements, I think improvements, and I think 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:41.360 that was generated from incidents that happened in the United States. 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:44.840 We're active shooter and the response to police. It's not 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.720 contained in the gachet that's not sealed off bondai and 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.880 wait till the tactical police there. If it's an active shooter, 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:56.600 the police role is to go in and finish the threat, 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:01.560 to stop the stop the threat. Yeah, your thoughts on 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:04.440 that is the way that we've got to respond because 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.439 it's a different world in the scope that we live 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:10.080 in now, isn't it. The active shooter response is the 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:11.160 appropriate response. 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:11.520 Yeah. 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.839 Look, you know, and if we rewinder our clock back 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.559 a little bit, is that our traditional container negay shape. 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:20.400 It always comes off the back end of what's say 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:22.920 a bank robbery gone wrong, whether they might have been 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:25.720 sche masked up or their identities are hidden. So if 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.000 I'm hiding my identities, I come in to do a crime, 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:30.440 I've got the intention to get away with it and 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.400 move on. The first thing that resonates with those two 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:35.960 shooters from yesterday as soon as you see that first picture, 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.240 no attempt to cover up their identity. So what that 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:42.200 tells you from the outset is I am here. I'm 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:44.960 here to cause as much death and mayem as I 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.560 possibly can, and the only way it's going to stop 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:50.160 is when you shoot me. Because I haven't covered their identity, 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:50.800 they don't care. 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:53.880 There was no plan escape. 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:56.480 They were going to go and go until they died. 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:02.000 From your experience in countert rorism, and we talked before 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:05.640 we started recording about the magnitude of the crime scene. 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.680 You were down there this morning, so yeah, less than 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:12.520 twelve hours after the event. What was your takeaway from that? 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:12.840 Then? 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:14.880 How big is the crime scene we're looking at? 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:15.520 That's huge. 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:20.560 It's Bread's entire length of the beach. Now whilst people 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:22.800 you know, a couple of reporters that I said to me, 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:27.400 why is the entire Campbell Parade basically raped off? Going 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.240 all the way down to the far left of Campbell 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.400 Parade is where I believe the vehicle was with the ied, 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.040 So the bomb squad we're working down there. Coming up 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.040 a little bit to that bridge is where the main 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:44.600 main fatalities were. It's heavily saturated with evidence, as one 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.120 would imagine. But in terms of why do you rape 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:49.960 off the entire rest of it, it's purely because as 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:53.800 people are running, they're victims, potentially they're dropping evidence as 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:58.000 they go at that relevant time, you know, mate, in 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:01.880 terms of homicide crime scenes, far better I've got one go, Yeah, 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:04.880 I'm far better. I mean to go out and secure 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.760 everything I practically can secure. And as you know, we 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.080 as we work that crime scene and we get more 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:12.960 information and intelligence coming about the particular crime we're looking 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.840 at that crime scene will come in a little bit, 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:19.280 but it's it's big. It was very somber this morning. 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:22.840 There was each corner. I had all of the various 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:25.200 major press outlets. It's a bit of a who's who 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:28.240 of morning TV so to speak down there. There was 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.240 pleasantries explain exchange between each of them, but it was 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:33.880 a very somber mood. 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.640 It hits the psyche of a city like Sydney and 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:41.560 the country for that matter, that it's widespread with the 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:45.400 actual crime scene and the era. And you mentioned the IED, 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.360 so have you got there. What's the latest update on that, 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.720 because there was a suggestion and what we're talking about 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.760 improvised explosive devices and there was concerns that they were 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:57.400 around around the era. 0:15:57.800 --> 0:15:59.160 Yeah, I understand. 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.040 My last piece of information around that is that there 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.680 was two found in the vehicle that they drove in 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:10.760 are there are two IEDs that have been since disarmed, 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:16.680 but they were to be ignited via a ignition so 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:20.320 ignited via a wick. So what that would sort of 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:23.720 generally suggest is that quite clearly it's light it and 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:24.120 throw it. 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:24.960 Now. 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.640 I understand from a thing was from the press conference 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.200 that was put out by Commissioner Onnion that they were 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:33.240 found in the vehicle and disarmed. Now why they didn't 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:35.120 come out and why they didn't get used or who 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.360 will never know, but they weren't. 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:41.400 And that's another consideration for police too on this. And 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:45.120 I'm not trying to justify or whatever with police action, 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:49.200 but coordinating off the scene. It wouldn't be the first 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.840 time that the terrorist side has happened and then they're 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:54.280 waiting for a secondary attack where people have come in. 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.600 It's you know, it's the methodology of them. And there's 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.880 numerous attacks around around the world that are happened, and 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:04.320 what they'll often be is that, yes, the initial terrorist 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:07.359 act has occurred, and what will be staged around that 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:11.120 area are other potential offenders or other vehicles that are 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:14.359 stoked with IEDs. Then the point around that could be twofold. 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:19.280 It'll be one the initial chaos will occur and people 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.719 will run and spread and then so the device can 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:25.919 be activated to take them out. Or more traditionally, how 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:28.480 it's been used in the past is we know law 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.120 enforcement will come in on mass and that second device 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:35.480 and even sometimes a third device is designed to take 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:36.960 out those first responders. 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:43.080 Again drawing on your experience working in counter terrorism. The 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:47.800 strike force that's been set up to investigate this, well, 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.200 I would imagine that it's huge. Who will that involve, 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:52.320 what sort. 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:55.440 Of It's a great question. It will involve everyone. So 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:57.920 probably as you know, if you remember back to your day, 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:00.520 that there is a particular strike force that set up, 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:06.000 there's already pre planned tasks set in there, of course, 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:09.359 but they'll grow as we go, but pre planned points 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:11.919 of responsibilities. Obviously, State crime will come in, will be 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:15.080 led by the counter Terrorism Coordination Command which is will 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:17.040 essentially be run by what we call the Joint counter 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.880 Terrorism Commands and involve the AFP and the New South 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:24.680 Wales Police supported by State Crime and LAC Local Area 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:30.280 Command detectives. But look, it's no secret Asia are going 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:32.800 to be there. They're going to plug that information in 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:34.920 New South Wales Crime Commission will be there in their 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:38.920 capacity and as I understand that, the AFP everybody started 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:42.119 to play a number of tactical resources into the area 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:46.080 as well. If there's needs, surveillance will continue and that 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:48.560 will come in from probably all around the state and 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:49.840 act I'd. 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:55.000 Imagine, Okay, so multi multi agencies, the other thing that 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:59.320 very early in the after the incident that Commissional Lenion 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:04.240 declared the Terrace incident. What's the significance of that and 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:08.480 what does a commissioner need to declare it the terrace incident. 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:12.760 Yeah, the main significance around it is it's it allows 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:16.239 him to identify, for example, a particular area might help him. 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:19.480 Let him identify a particular description of a person or 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:23.359 a vehicle, for example, and basically say I'll make this 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:25.440 up here as an example, and put a blanket over 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:28.159 a particular postcode, or put a blanket over a certain 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:31.639 streat or certain aspects of a suburb, and say anything 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.159 contained in there is subject now to the powers. And 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.800 that could be stop, search and detain, It could be 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:39.160 go into the house and do what we need to do. 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:41.639 It could be removal of your phone. So they'll be 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:45.760 very broader power. So in the days where for example, 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:47.919 we might have needed to say a search oneant, you know, 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:50.800 we've got to go through the Affidavid process up into 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:51.680 the courts, et cetera. 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:54.240 With these powers, it basically. 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:56.280 Becomes an automatic go do what you need to do 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.159 in accordance with that legislation. So it frees them up 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:02.200 drastically to do that, and to do that he actually 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:07.400 stepped that out on his press release last night, and 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:09.720 it was just a matter of getting a true understanding 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.159 that the crime itself was connected or likely to be 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:13.560 connected to an act of terrorism. 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:14.200 He said. 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.119 He was set aside of that very quickly and acted 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:19.960 those powers. And those powers are why you saw that sift, 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:21.320 swift response last night. 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:24.960 We're talking about the other premises that were I think 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:30.360 it was from Brig were executed warrants or gained entry 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:31.160 into the premises. 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:33.679 Yeah, so they did that and that's what enables you 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:35.600 to do because as you can imagine, what we're trying 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:38.840 to do, he is move very swiftly to prevent either 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.280 the loss or destruction of evidence, but also to get 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:46.440 ahead of capturing if there's any potential known offenders out there. 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:49.080 And it just allows for a very swift response as 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.200 opposed to going through what we might have to normally 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:52.560 go through with warrants, et cetera. 0:20:52.720 --> 0:21:00.239 Yeah, understood. With the situation, the way it's occurred and 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:04.680 the police response in the lead up to this, there's 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:09.240 been a lot, i'd describe, and Sydney based, there's been 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:14.919 a lot of discontent within the community. There's been protests 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:19.960 Someday afternoon, there was multiple protests for the past six 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:22.800