1 00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Approche production. 2 00:00:13,641 --> 00:00:19,121 Speaker 2: I took fifty five minutes to find me guilty exactly. 3 00:00:20,001 --> 00:00:25,401 Speaker 1: So, yeah, fifty five minutes he killed me. But why 4 00:00:25,441 --> 00:00:27,241 Speaker 1: do you think he gave you up? Or do you 5 00:00:27,321 --> 00:00:29,121 Speaker 1: scared of prison? Hell? 6 00:00:29,401 --> 00:00:30,801 Speaker 3: Have you ever seen him again? Since then? 7 00:00:30,921 --> 00:00:32,961 Speaker 1: Have you ever I've seen him? You have, I've seen 8 00:00:33,001 --> 00:00:34,481 Speaker 1: him again, I've seen. 9 00:00:34,481 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 3: I've never if you confronted him about why he. 10 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:41,001 Speaker 2: Gave you up, you know as many ways of skinning 11 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,201 Speaker 2: the cat, right, I don't need to know the reason 12 00:00:44,921 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 2: why you give me up. But when I stargned my 13 00:00:48,001 --> 00:00:52,841 Speaker 2: first contract in a Premiership for Leicester, he was cleaning cars. 14 00:00:53,881 --> 00:00:54,001 Speaker 1: Right. 15 00:00:55,361 --> 00:00:58,041 Speaker 2: I bought a BM and I took it to him 16 00:00:59,281 --> 00:01:06,041 Speaker 2: clean my car. Right, he cannot he can't come around 17 00:01:06,041 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 2: the area no more. Well, because you're a grass, you're 18 00:01:10,321 --> 00:01:13,321 Speaker 2: forever looking over your shoulder. I've done my I've done 19 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,881 Speaker 2: my sentence, and I'm in a much better place than 20 00:01:15,961 --> 00:01:19,081 Speaker 2: you could ever be, now, you know. And that's my conscience. 21 00:01:19,121 --> 00:01:20,961 Speaker 2: I could never have gone in the dock against my 22 00:01:21,041 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 2: soul called myth no chance, you know. So like obviously 23 00:01:26,441 --> 00:01:29,761 Speaker 2: like he's given me up. I've got four years and 24 00:01:30,081 --> 00:01:31,761 Speaker 2: the judge this is what the judge said, to me, 25 00:01:32,241 --> 00:01:34,761 Speaker 2: if I ever see you in my courtroom ever again, 26 00:01:35,521 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 2: I'm going to lose you in the system. I was like, okay, 27 00:01:41,961 --> 00:01:44,281 Speaker 2: that's award in itself. But then they sent me to 28 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,321 Speaker 2: campill Is the Way, which was the worst prison for 29 00:01:48,561 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 2: the sentence I was doing. So there's some naughty people 30 00:01:51,881 --> 00:01:53,801 Speaker 2: and on the Isle of Wight as well. They send 31 00:01:53,841 --> 00:01:56,721 Speaker 2: you there because you have to take a ferry and 32 00:01:56,921 --> 00:01:58,601 Speaker 2: so it's hard for you to get visitors there. 33 00:01:59,961 --> 00:02:02,721 Speaker 1: That's what They throw you all over the north or whatever. 34 00:02:02,921 --> 00:02:05,521 Speaker 2: They throw you out your hometown or whatever, so to 35 00:02:05,601 --> 00:02:08,241 Speaker 2: try and make it hard as possible. I've never cause 36 00:02:08,281 --> 00:02:12,041 Speaker 2: no problems in prison. So I'll get onto a wing 37 00:02:12,161 --> 00:02:19,681 Speaker 2: called Thomas's Wing proper skinned now. But I know that 38 00:02:20,601 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 2: I can't take that ship because I'm going to have 39 00:02:22,721 --> 00:02:25,561 Speaker 2: to take ship for the rest of our sentence. Like 40 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,081 Speaker 2: the first day on this wing, put my name up 41 00:02:29,121 --> 00:02:34,761 Speaker 2: for the phone. Some guy called Tyler comes and rubs 42 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,041 Speaker 2: my name out. 43 00:02:36,481 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: I'll get into night. What are you doing? 44 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 2: It's kind shut your mouth unless i'll do you so well. 45 00:02:45,041 --> 00:02:45,921 Speaker 2: We won't rabbit then. 46 00:02:47,081 --> 00:02:49,041 Speaker 1: So we've gone in the table tennis room. 47 00:02:49,121 --> 00:02:53,401 Speaker 2: Someone I know who's keeping dog on the door and 48 00:02:53,441 --> 00:02:57,521 Speaker 2: I've ended up knocking him out and I've broke my 49 00:02:57,561 --> 00:03:01,041 Speaker 2: hand on him, but he's cleaner and I've walked out 50 00:03:01,121 --> 00:03:05,161 Speaker 2: now left him in there, so obviously the squoz and 51 00:03:05,201 --> 00:03:09,121 Speaker 2: then they've seen him knocked out and then I'll I've 52 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,761 Speaker 2: smashed my hand to bits, so my hand's done. I've 53 00:03:13,761 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 2: had to go to hospital now. I said, yeah, you're 54 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,081 Speaker 2: going to need operation on that. Then we go to 55 00:03:19,121 --> 00:03:22,521 Speaker 2: the block as well. Leading up to it, he's grasped 56 00:03:22,561 --> 00:03:29,081 Speaker 2: me up as well, said that it was it give 57 00:03:29,121 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 2: me seven days in the block, but I. 58 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:32,201 Speaker 1: Had done it. 59 00:03:32,281 --> 00:03:34,121 Speaker 2: Could I've had to go park Us to get operation 60 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,521 Speaker 2: on my hand. I've got the operation. I'll come back 61 00:03:37,521 --> 00:03:42,281 Speaker 2: on the wing now my hands fixed. Now. Then we 62 00:03:42,321 --> 00:03:45,041 Speaker 2: have an inter wing competition and I've played in the 63 00:03:45,121 --> 00:03:48,281 Speaker 2: into win competition. They seen me play and we've actually 64 00:03:48,361 --> 00:03:51,401 Speaker 2: won it for the first time for ages. Then they 65 00:03:51,481 --> 00:03:54,441 Speaker 2: have prison team. The teams used to come in and 66 00:03:54,441 --> 00:03:57,881 Speaker 2: play the prison team, a team called cow Sports coming. 67 00:03:59,041 --> 00:04:05,721 Speaker 2: Do you remember Ambrose, Mendy, Nigel Benz. Yeah, the prison 68 00:04:05,761 --> 00:04:10,201 Speaker 2: with me, okay, right, So we played Cows. 69 00:04:12,081 --> 00:04:13,721 Speaker 1: I scored two goals. 70 00:04:14,761 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 2: And Rolls has come up to me and spoke to 71 00:04:16,481 --> 00:04:19,361 Speaker 2: me after he's gone, like you canna play football, So 72 00:04:19,561 --> 00:04:21,801 Speaker 2: that I'm going to keep eye out on the arm out. 73 00:04:21,841 --> 00:04:25,841 Speaker 2: In a few months, I'm gonna get some trials when 74 00:04:25,841 --> 00:04:26,361 Speaker 2: you come home. 75 00:04:27,081 --> 00:04:28,041 Speaker 1: I thought he was chatting ship. 76 00:04:28,841 --> 00:04:34,161 Speaker 2: Yeah, then cows have gone to the prison officer in 77 00:04:34,201 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 2: the gym, mister Walder. He was an absolute legend and 78 00:04:38,601 --> 00:04:40,961 Speaker 2: gone to him like any Charles. We could have him 79 00:04:41,041 --> 00:04:46,201 Speaker 2: every weekend to play for. It's after doing a year 80 00:04:46,361 --> 00:04:47,761 Speaker 2: right other four. 81 00:04:49,521 --> 00:04:49,961 Speaker 1: He's gone. 82 00:04:50,961 --> 00:04:53,761 Speaker 2: Not at the moment, he ain't been on home leave yet. 83 00:04:54,121 --> 00:04:55,801 Speaker 2: When he goes on home move, we're ever look at 84 00:04:55,801 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 2: it and how he behaves in the prison or whatever 85 00:04:58,601 --> 00:04:59,281 Speaker 2: ever look at it. 86 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:01,081 Speaker 1: So I've gotten on home. 87 00:05:01,161 --> 00:05:04,441 Speaker 2: We've got knock back first on my first brole obviously 88 00:05:04,481 --> 00:05:08,481 Speaker 2: after mess it up the first one. Yeah, come back 89 00:05:08,481 --> 00:05:12,481 Speaker 2: in now and they've gone like with talking to the governor. 90 00:05:12,641 --> 00:05:14,681 Speaker 2: It looks like you're going to be a gay out 91 00:05:14,681 --> 00:05:17,961 Speaker 2: every week to play for this semi pro side. Also 92 00:05:17,961 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: we're going to give you the gym Ordales job. So 93 00:05:20,281 --> 00:05:24,001 Speaker 2: I'm like touch because I'm going to be playing football 94 00:05:24,161 --> 00:05:26,801 Speaker 2: at least three times a day. I'm going to train 95 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 2: in the gym twice a day and I've always trained 96 00:05:29,521 --> 00:05:32,641 Speaker 2: in myself as well as my cellmates. So that's six 97 00:05:32,761 --> 00:05:38,641 Speaker 2: times I'm being active. So they give me the okay 98 00:05:39,201 --> 00:05:42,121 Speaker 2: to go out and play for this team. And I'm 99 00:05:42,121 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 2: nervous anyway playing for a team because whatever'sort you do 100 00:05:45,601 --> 00:05:47,841 Speaker 2: or whatever you do, you want to get the respect 101 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:48,561 Speaker 2: to your peers. 102 00:05:50,681 --> 00:05:53,241 Speaker 1: So I'll go and play. We went to one. 103 00:05:53,401 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 2: The first time I played in front of a crowd 104 00:05:55,601 --> 00:05:56,601 Speaker 2: that set for the prisoners. 105 00:05:57,001 --> 00:06:01,441 Speaker 1: Huh. Then I start playing really well. They start getting fired. 106 00:06:01,601 --> 00:06:04,601 Speaker 1: Six hundred fans games because I'm playing. 107 00:06:05,641 --> 00:06:09,041 Speaker 2: I'm on the radio on the Isla Waight TV that 108 00:06:09,121 --> 00:06:12,521 Speaker 2: coming to gm TV come into the prison, but they 109 00:06:13,001 --> 00:06:16,561 Speaker 2: under standard have come to interview me all in paper 110 00:06:16,641 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 2: to like escape to victory and all shit like that. 111 00:06:25,361 --> 00:06:28,921 Speaker 2: This governor, the governor of the prison, and the prison 112 00:06:28,961 --> 00:06:33,681 Speaker 2: officer in the gym. I can't thank them enough because 113 00:06:34,201 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 2: their job is to help prisoners not to offend again 114 00:06:37,681 --> 00:06:39,681 Speaker 2: when they come out, and they've done it and to 115 00:06:39,761 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 2: the letter of the law, you know, then giving me 116 00:06:42,601 --> 00:06:45,641 Speaker 2: that chance. And the manager of the football team, they 117 00:06:45,681 --> 00:06:49,961 Speaker 2: were young, another legend. They treat They treated me like 118 00:06:50,641 --> 00:06:54,121 Speaker 2: I was a normal person. Yeah, it's a young lad. 119 00:06:54,841 --> 00:06:56,641 Speaker 2: He's got caught up in a lot of a lot 120 00:06:56,641 --> 00:07:00,041 Speaker 2: of ship, but he's a nice lad. I used to 121 00:07:00,081 --> 00:07:06,361 Speaker 2: have town visits, right and my teammates used to give 122 00:07:06,401 --> 00:07:10,441 Speaker 2: me the key to their house. A convicted Robbert. It's 123 00:07:10,521 --> 00:07:13,441 Speaker 2: getting keys to these houses so I can have my 124 00:07:13,561 --> 00:07:18,121 Speaker 2: message around at the time a few hours, as I 125 00:07:18,201 --> 00:07:20,681 Speaker 2: want to say, they talked to me in the change room, 126 00:07:20,721 --> 00:07:25,081 Speaker 2: you know. So I enjoyed my time at CALS. But 127 00:07:25,201 --> 00:07:30,521 Speaker 2: then I got parole with six months. I six months left. 128 00:07:30,521 --> 00:07:31,921 Speaker 2: They give me six months parole. 129 00:07:32,441 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: But it was clever. 130 00:07:34,281 --> 00:07:39,281 Speaker 2: They gave it to me when preseason was starting, so 131 00:07:39,321 --> 00:07:41,641 Speaker 2: I couldn't get in trouble leading up to it. And 132 00:07:41,641 --> 00:07:46,041 Speaker 2: and Rose Mandy had been in contact. He's true to 133 00:07:46,081 --> 00:07:48,841 Speaker 2: his word that he had trials for me at South 134 00:07:48,921 --> 00:07:53,921 Speaker 2: End Football Club. So I got released on July thirteenth, 135 00:07:54,121 --> 00:07:57,201 Speaker 2: and I'm on the fourteenth. I was at South End 136 00:07:57,201 --> 00:08:00,121 Speaker 2: Football Club when I got released. There's TV cameras followed 137 00:08:00,121 --> 00:08:01,841 Speaker 2: me on the prison. 138 00:08:01,521 --> 00:08:02,281 Speaker 1: To the bolt. 139 00:08:02,841 --> 00:08:05,161 Speaker 2: Then they turned up at South and the next day, 140 00:08:05,561 --> 00:08:09,041 Speaker 2: let's say, were walking into South End. But I never 141 00:08:09,241 --> 00:08:11,241 Speaker 2: I never realized how much of a big deal game 142 00:08:11,281 --> 00:08:16,601 Speaker 2: to a big football club it is. It's daunting. You're 143 00:08:16,601 --> 00:08:20,521 Speaker 2: walking into this changing room, you start doubting yourself and 144 00:08:20,641 --> 00:08:25,241 Speaker 2: my good enough, Like I would I would fit, but 145 00:08:25,281 --> 00:08:27,281 Speaker 2: I weren't professional football fit. 146 00:08:27,961 --> 00:08:30,081 Speaker 3: How did how did how did the players at the 147 00:08:30,161 --> 00:08:32,401 Speaker 3: South End treat you for when they came when you 148 00:08:32,481 --> 00:08:33,921 Speaker 3: came there? Did they treat you any different? 149 00:08:34,121 --> 00:08:40,281 Speaker 2: Or? I'm still mates with at least five of them, 150 00:08:40,521 --> 00:08:44,801 Speaker 2: because there was This is why this world works in 151 00:08:44,841 --> 00:08:49,241 Speaker 2: mysterious ways. One of the ways there Ricky Ole. He 152 00:08:49,281 --> 00:08:54,521 Speaker 2: actually was in Campill prison before me, so he looked 153 00:08:54,561 --> 00:08:57,801 Speaker 2: after me, and the answer looked after me. And the 154 00:08:57,841 --> 00:09:00,481 Speaker 2: answer has got a big company in our sports screen. 155 00:09:01,401 --> 00:09:05,601 Speaker 2: Then you've got Christy Power, Angel, Jason Lee. There's some 156 00:09:05,921 --> 00:09:08,041 Speaker 2: good characters, and all of them now I'm still in 157 00:09:08,041 --> 00:09:08,721 Speaker 2: contact with them. 158 00:09:08,721 --> 00:09:09,481 Speaker 1: They looked after me. 159 00:09:09,521 --> 00:09:11,601 Speaker 2: They used to pick me up in London, take me 160 00:09:11,641 --> 00:09:14,481 Speaker 2: to training, and they used to give me confidence and training. 161 00:09:14,561 --> 00:09:16,481 Speaker 2: They always said, they always say now that you should 162 00:09:16,481 --> 00:09:19,481 Speaker 2: have got something, but I never ended up getting anything. 163 00:09:19,721 --> 00:09:20,681 Speaker 1: That was a disappointment. 164 00:09:20,721 --> 00:09:22,961 Speaker 2: I was there from Barry Fire as a manager and 165 00:09:22,961 --> 00:09:26,241 Speaker 2: they do SERI was his number two. So they said 166 00:09:26,481 --> 00:09:28,681 Speaker 2: we can't give you nothing. We've got players in your 167 00:09:28,681 --> 00:09:31,041 Speaker 2: position or whatever. Then I went to. 168 00:09:32,521 --> 00:09:36,081 Speaker 3: Millwell we did how are you feeling then when you 169 00:09:36,121 --> 00:09:39,321 Speaker 3: got rejected? Was it like did you feel like ship? 170 00:09:39,321 --> 00:09:40,121 Speaker 3: Am I going to do this? 171 00:09:40,281 --> 00:09:40,641 Speaker 1: Or is it? 172 00:09:41,761 --> 00:09:44,761 Speaker 2: I was devastated and I was I was doubting myself. 173 00:09:45,161 --> 00:09:49,841 Speaker 2: I was thinking, am I good enough? But what's the alternative? 174 00:09:50,081 --> 00:09:53,321 Speaker 2: Do I go back to what I do? And that's 175 00:09:53,361 --> 00:10:04,241 Speaker 2: no good? And I was anyway, So then I went Mill. 176 00:10:04,441 --> 00:10:08,881 Speaker 2: I played agains West, set the goal, but I wasn't 177 00:10:09,681 --> 00:10:13,521 Speaker 2: match fit and they said that to my agent. So 178 00:10:13,561 --> 00:10:16,361 Speaker 2: we're taking in for a month. So after a while. 179 00:10:16,801 --> 00:10:18,321 Speaker 2: With my mentality as well. 180 00:10:18,601 --> 00:10:19,801 Speaker 1: I'm a winner. I'd like to win. 181 00:10:20,041 --> 00:10:22,681 Speaker 2: So after a few weeks, I'm winning everything in the 182 00:10:22,761 --> 00:10:25,521 Speaker 2: running and then I'll tell you it was did and 183 00:10:26,441 --> 00:10:31,681 Speaker 2: Mark Beard, Ben Fatcher and Mark Kennedy. Mark Kennedy played 184 00:10:31,681 --> 00:10:36,401 Speaker 2: for Liverpool, those young boys at the time. And so 185 00:10:36,481 --> 00:10:38,841 Speaker 2: I walked to the gym. Now so they've got more 186 00:10:38,881 --> 00:10:42,241 Speaker 2: each of the bench person that they don't know me 187 00:10:42,401 --> 00:10:44,521 Speaker 2: from Adam like, I've got to pile up on my 188 00:10:44,561 --> 00:10:44,841 Speaker 2: head and. 189 00:10:46,561 --> 00:10:52,321 Speaker 1: I'm not thing right at the bottom and I'm rapping 190 00:10:52,441 --> 00:10:53,361 Speaker 1: it for like twenties. 191 00:10:53,761 --> 00:11:00,161 Speaker 2: They're looking at each other like who is this Geezer. 192 00:11:01,281 --> 00:11:04,361 Speaker 2: So I got on with all the players and all 193 00:11:04,401 --> 00:11:09,161 Speaker 2: the staff whatever. So I've done well. Then we play Watford. 194 00:11:09,481 --> 00:11:12,641 Speaker 2: This is a defining game. So I played really, really well. 195 00:11:13,201 --> 00:11:16,121 Speaker 2: I'll give the left back a torred. Then they've gone 196 00:11:16,121 --> 00:11:19,401 Speaker 2: to my agent like, listen, we can offer him two 197 00:11:19,481 --> 00:11:23,361 Speaker 2: hundred pounds a week. We want him to stay in digs. 198 00:11:24,361 --> 00:11:28,161 Speaker 2: In my head, I'm like, I'm twenty three. You don't 199 00:11:28,241 --> 00:11:31,081 Speaker 2: obviously trust me. I'm not staying in digs. I'm not 200 00:11:31,081 --> 00:11:34,641 Speaker 2: going to say that contract. Then I've gone up to Sunderland. 201 00:11:35,001 --> 00:11:37,361 Speaker 2: They put me in a hotel. The hotel was the 202 00:11:37,521 --> 00:11:40,161 Speaker 2: nuts for me. I've never stayed in the hotel before. 203 00:11:40,361 --> 00:11:46,601 Speaker 1: You know. And they got to cruise it. I'm thinking 204 00:11:46,721 --> 00:11:47,481 Speaker 1: I've arrived. 205 00:11:50,161 --> 00:11:53,881 Speaker 2: I'm in this hotel called the washerpon Moahouse and I'm 206 00:11:53,921 --> 00:11:56,881 Speaker 2: there like sundown there. Then Monday they come picked me 207 00:11:56,961 --> 00:12:00,881 Speaker 2: up to go training. And then on the Thursday I 208 00:12:00,961 --> 00:12:06,001 Speaker 2: play against Leeds and I remember playing against giusy called 209 00:12:06,561 --> 00:12:13,081 Speaker 2: Kevin Sharp. Terry Butcher is the major of Sunderland, big icon. 210 00:12:13,601 --> 00:12:17,041 Speaker 2: Everyone knows that picture with the band is so like 211 00:12:17,361 --> 00:12:21,161 Speaker 2: he's watching this game. Now play against Leeds, play really well? 212 00:12:21,321 --> 00:12:24,961 Speaker 2: I know I played well. The next day Terry Butcher 213 00:12:25,001 --> 00:12:27,881 Speaker 2: calls me in the office on to sit down the sun. 214 00:12:28,481 --> 00:12:31,641 Speaker 2: You excite me, I'm going to sign you. Just imagine 215 00:12:31,681 --> 00:12:35,041 Speaker 2: hearing them words like it's like three months nearly three 216 00:12:35,041 --> 00:12:39,681 Speaker 2: months out of stepping out of Campbell Prison. From bn 217 00:12:39,761 --> 00:12:43,801 Speaker 2: PN two nine nine one, Lawrence getting told by the 218 00:12:44,201 --> 00:12:47,561 Speaker 2: old England captain that he's going to sign you. He 219 00:12:47,681 --> 00:12:52,881 Speaker 2: said like, listen, go to London, don't enjoy some time 220 00:12:52,921 --> 00:12:55,561 Speaker 2: with your family. We've got a game against Leicester next week. 221 00:12:56,321 --> 00:13:00,361 Speaker 2: Bring your stuff, come back on the coach and we'll 222 00:13:00,401 --> 00:13:00,721 Speaker 2: sign you.