WEBVTT - Why is And Just Like That so terrible?

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<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. This is the weekend edition of the Front.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Claire Harvey. Sex and the City. There's a show

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<v Speaker 1>that delivered on its promise plenty of sex in one

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<v Speaker 1>of the most exciting cities of them all, New York.

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<v Speaker 1>The appeal of the show was escapist fun, dates, designer shoes, cocktails,

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<v Speaker 1>frivolous sex, grounded in something bigger, the modern woman's search

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<v Speaker 1>for meaning in a life where everything was optional, men, marriage, children,

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe even love. Then came two movies that gave

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<v Speaker 1>fans a creeping sense something had been lost from the

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<v Speaker 1>magic formula, and now a whole new series that confirms it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's called and Just like that. Jessica Hallerin is actually

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<v Speaker 1>the Australian Chief sportswriter, but she's here today in a

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<v Speaker 1>different capacity to talk to us about Sex and the City.

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<v Speaker 1>And just like that, just you are our resident megafan

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<v Speaker 1>and also our resident critic. I guess tell me when

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<v Speaker 1>Sex and the City first came out. You and I

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<v Speaker 1>were in our early twenties. We were out having a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of sex and drinking a lot of cocktails and

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<v Speaker 1>having fabulous lives, just like the girls in Manhattan. Why

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<v Speaker 1>was the original Sex in the City so important culturally.

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<v Speaker 2>It was just this sort of moment in time it

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<v Speaker 2>being said in New York.

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<v Speaker 1>The women all looked amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>It was just this perfect sort of form of escapism

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<v Speaker 2>I found. I'd go to a girlfriend's house and we

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<v Speaker 2>all sit around the TV and drink a ten dollar

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<v Speaker 2>bottle of wine, and.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a ritual. Everybody was watching it. Have you

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<v Speaker 1>seen the New York Times style section? You know, I

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<v Speaker 1>can't handle hard news before noon. There's a beautiful man

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<v Speaker 1>downtown selling beautiful furniture. We're going Samford a whole afternoon

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<v Speaker 1>plan with Australian burg. I'm not just going to drop

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<v Speaker 1>everything to go downtown to see some cute guy. He's straight.

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<v Speaker 1>I get my purse.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>There was a great range of characters too. Even though

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<v Speaker 1>it was called Sex in the City, their attitudes to

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<v Speaker 1>sex ranged from the relatively prudish to the completely liberated.

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<v Speaker 1>And they were a new kind of iteration of the

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<v Speaker 1>working woman, weren't they.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Absolutely, And everybody would sort of sit around and go, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>are you a Carrie or are you a Miranda? Or

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<v Speaker 2>you're a Samantha, And it really became a topic of conversation,

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<v Speaker 2>and they were having these conversations on television that we'd

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<v Speaker 2>really never heard women speak about before.

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<v Speaker 1>You see, this is why I don't date. The men

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<v Speaker 1>out there are free. Well, that's completely unfair. I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 2>If a man is over thirty and single, there's something

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<v Speaker 2>wrong with him.

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<v Speaker 1>It's still winning. They're being weeded out from propagating the species. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>what about us, We're just choosing. It was a really

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<v Speaker 1>groundbreaking series, and it's hit the tone I feel like

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<v Speaker 1>for the early two thousands in some ways, and became

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<v Speaker 1>this moment for women in general. It changed fashion too,

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<v Speaker 1>didn't it. I remember before that I wore little suits

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<v Speaker 1>from Sports Girl to work, and afterwards it was like, well,

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<v Speaker 1>you can wear a dress and sneakers and a denim

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<v Speaker 1>jacket and still be fashionable and professional in fact more so.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I remember carry wearing these big flowers at

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<v Speaker 2>one point, and then everybody started wearing the flowers, I

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<v Speaker 2>think from Milana Hill here.

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<v Speaker 1>It looked ridiculous that I was mostlessly mocked for attempting

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<v Speaker 1>a flower in my hair once when I was in

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<v Speaker 1>my early twenties by one of our stuff. Yeah. So

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<v Speaker 1>then there were a couple of movies. The TV series

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<v Speaker 1>ended in two thousand and four, and then twenty and

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<v Speaker 1>eight and twenty ten there were movies for me. That's

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<v Speaker 1>when Six and the City started to go downhill. The

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<v Speaker 1>first movie I liked. I thought that was well put together.

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<v Speaker 1>The storylines were incredibly believable. But I remember when Sex

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<v Speaker 1>and the City, the second movie came out, it was

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<v Speaker 1>just getting widely panned and I thought, oh, it couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>be that bad. It was terrible. It was absolutely horrendous.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the Lies of Manali Caming.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember watching, going, what are we watching?

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<v Speaker 2>Little Food?

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<v Speaker 1>They went to the Middle East on an ill fated

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<v Speaker 1>kind of girls trip. I vividly remember a scene in

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<v Speaker 1>a marketplace where Samantha was kind of getting pursued by

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<v Speaker 1>sortied locals, and it just felt kind of racist.

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<v Speaker 2>It just went from being this cleverly written, tightly written

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<v Speaker 2>franchise to being nothing but a Dog's Breakfast sort of

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<v Speaker 2>mash up of a musical with just some.

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<v Speaker 1>Really poor storylines. And I don't think it's for covered since.

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<v Speaker 1>So in twenty twenty one, and just like that, that

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<v Speaker 1>mood two huge excitement. You know, it was really wonderful

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<v Speaker 1>to see these women now in their late fifties returning

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<v Speaker 1>to the screen. But from the very first episode there

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<v Speaker 1>was disappointment, wasn't there yeah, where we have to go

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<v Speaker 1>back to?

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<v Speaker 2>Here is this sort of breakdown off screen between Sarah

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<v Speaker 2>Jessica Parker and King Katrell. One of the main characters,

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<v Speaker 2>Samantha Jones and her not returning to this franchise and

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<v Speaker 2>the number of issues sort of bubbling around it, and

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<v Speaker 2>as to why she's not coming back. Some of the

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<v Speaker 2>things that have been floated is money. The other reasons

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<v Speaker 2>was she felt like, why bring Samantha back? Can't we

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<v Speaker 2>just let these characters go? But I think the biggest

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<v Speaker 2>problem with this franchise is no Samantha Jones.

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<v Speaker 1>I am heart. I'm also demanding, stubborn, self sufficient and

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<v Speaker 1>always right in bed, at the office and everywhere else.

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<v Speaker 1>They've attempted to replace Samantha with a couple of new

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<v Speaker 1>additions to the quartet, a university professor called Nia and

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<v Speaker 1>a woman called Lisa Todd Wexley, both women of color

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<v Speaker 1>who kind of joined the group on the fringes. The

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<v Speaker 1>Nia character has disappeared after season one of and just

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<v Speaker 1>like that, whatever, Man, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't know, Nia just disappeared, Jay disappeared, Miranda's lover. I

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<v Speaker 2>think what is happening here is that Michael Patrick King,

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<v Speaker 2>the show runner, the original creator, the chief writer of

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<v Speaker 2>this is bulldozing ahead with his vision without really stopping

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<v Speaker 2>to listen to what the people are saying out there,

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<v Speaker 2>which is they are incredibly disappointed that characters that we

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<v Speaker 2>originally loved and adored, like say, Miranda, has completely departed

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<v Speaker 2>from who she is.

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<v Speaker 1>She's a lesbian now yes some of the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>And she's an alcoholic yes, it was right. Maybe you

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<v Speaker 1>do have a drinking problem. I don't have a drinking problem.

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<v Speaker 1>I just got a little carried away. You are married,

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<v Speaker 1>and you just had sex in my kitchen. I'm unhappy.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm unhappy. Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Recently, there was an episode, which is a party episode,

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<v Speaker 2>which involved Miranda becoming almost like a caricature of herself.

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<v Speaker 2>She was a bit of a clown. She was wearing

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<v Speaker 2>this silver jumpsuit and she was overseeing this party for Charlotte,

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<v Speaker 2>and it really didn't feel like Miranda, and I felt

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<v Speaker 2>kind of embarrassed for her, and actually.

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<v Speaker 1>Felt embarrassed for the show. Yeah, this is a character who,

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<v Speaker 1>throughout sex and the city was the hard nosed corporate

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<v Speaker 1>lawyer who treated her puppy dogish kind of boyfriend quite

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<v Speaker 1>meanly and didn't really need anyone, and she was hilarious.

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<v Speaker 1>Now she's extreme, needy, very insecure. She's given up corporate

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<v Speaker 1>law to work for something that looks like Human Rights Watch.

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<v Speaker 1>She's lost everything that made her interesting, hasn't she Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>she has.

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<v Speaker 2>And so then it also leads to very weird interactions

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<v Speaker 2>with other characters. And most recently, there was a very

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<v Speaker 2>contentious scene at the end of an episode which involved

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<v Speaker 2>Carrie and Miranda having a fight where Miranda is challenging

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<v Speaker 2>Carrie about her relationship with the writer downstairs, who is

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<v Speaker 2>a potential new love interest, and it just turns into

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<v Speaker 2>Carry becoming this horrible, depressed, mean girl. And it was interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>I was listening to a podcast with Michael Patrick King.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello Lovers, Welcome back to and just like that the

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<v Speaker 1>Writer's Room the Official.

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<v Speaker 2>And he described that scene as one of his favorite

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<v Speaker 2>scenes ever, and I just was like, this is the problem.

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<v Speaker 1>One of my favorite scenes of all time. Carrie and

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<v Speaker 1>Miranda in the kitchen. I've just been reading the entire

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<v Speaker 1>party scene.

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<v Speaker 2>Can we talk?

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<v Speaker 1>We're not enjoying it.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm now just watching for the clothes, which also aren't

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<v Speaker 2>as good.

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<v Speaker 1>They aren't as good.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, Pat Field's not there, so that's also another

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<v Speaker 2>loss for the franchise.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up. Did we ask for storylines about age related

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<v Speaker 1>medical conditions. I went back to the original Sex in

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<v Speaker 1>the City and watched the whole six seasons. I'd never

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<v Speaker 1>really focused on them properly. I hadn't watched it all

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<v Speaker 1>the way through, and I thought, I wonder if actually

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<v Speaker 1>our sensibilities have changed as a society and it was

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<v Speaker 1>always kind of bad. Actually it was not bad. It

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<v Speaker 1>has aged really really well. Apart from the lack of

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<v Speaker 1>diverse original series, it was great. It wasn't kind of

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<v Speaker 1>silly and confected like it is now. Yeah, silly and confected.

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<v Speaker 1>And for the most part, people are now just hate

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<v Speaker 1>watching it, right, Like, I haven't found anybody that's gone,

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<v Speaker 1>oh no, it's fantastic, isn't it. One of the things

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<v Speaker 1>that I find confronting about it is seeing these women older,

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, this is my issue. I struggle to

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<v Speaker 1>see the bad plastic surgery they've had, the kind of

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<v Speaker 1>excessive filler. Although maybe I would also struggle if they

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<v Speaker 1>hadn't had any plastic surgery or filler. You know, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>this is like internalized misfortuning. You know what, do you

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<v Speaker 1>think their faces are significantly changed, all except Miranda.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's really hard to move on from the

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<v Speaker 2>early two thousands. I just don't think society has been

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<v Speaker 2>set up for us to actually look at aging faces

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<v Speaker 2>like we did. I mean, you know you and I

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<v Speaker 2>also grew up with the Golden Girls, where forty year

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<v Speaker 2>olds look like sixty years. But on the whole, I

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<v Speaker 2>think the way that their addressing aging is interesting but

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<v Speaker 2>also uncomfortable. Right, The beauty of Sex and the City

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<v Speaker 2>was we had these four women living in New York,

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<v Speaker 2>living sort of these fantasy lives. But the fantasy has

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<v Speaker 2>gone from and just like that, but it's probably become

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<v Speaker 2>a bit too real in some ways. The closest you

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<v Speaker 2>got in Sex and the City to a medical issue

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<v Speaker 2>was when Carrie's diaphram got stuck and Samantha had to

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<v Speaker 2>retrieve it for her.

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<v Speaker 1>Now and just like that, there's bowel cancer and prostate

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<v Speaker 1>cancer and people dropping dead and adult and happies. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not very sexy. This episode of the Front was

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<v Speaker 1>hosted by me Claire Harvey and co produced with Jasper Leigue,

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<v Speaker 1>who edited the episode and also wrote our theme. Thanks

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<v Speaker 1>for joining us on the front this week. Our team

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<v Speaker 1>also includes Kristen Amiot, Leat Sammerglue, Tiffany Dimak, Joshua Burton,

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<v Speaker 1>and Stephanie Coombs.