Speaker 1: Appogie Production. Hi, my name's beck Woodbine and welcome to
Speaker 1: Tenderness for Nurses. I'm grateful for the person that I
Speaker 1: have the opportunity to be.
Speaker 2: So I hit it and parked it for Nelly four years.
Speaker 2: We always have free will, We always get to choose.
Speaker 2: We are autonomous.
Speaker 1: Hi. Everyone, thank you for tuning back in to Tenderness
Speaker 1: for Nurses. Today I have Andy and Jason from ELG
Speaker 1: Sparkling chatting with me about their journey to producing and
Speaker 1: the development of H Sparkling, which is a beautiful sparkling
Speaker 1: drink for people that want to make other choices other
Speaker 1: than alcohol. And I actually tried it when I first
Speaker 1: stopped drinking it was I put an order in for
Speaker 1: you guys with you guys and gave it a whirl
Speaker 1: because there was nothing else around at that time five
Speaker 1: years ago. So thank you so much for taking the
Speaker 1: time to come on board. How did it all start?
Speaker 2: Thanks for having us back first of all, and thank
Speaker 2: you for your order five years ago. That's very exciting. Well,
Speaker 2: I guess we're still here because of those early orders,
Speaker 2: So thanks, ye appreciate it. Thanks for having this on
Speaker 2: this afternoon back five years ago. We started the ex
Speaker 2: journey every time too his health and as you mentioned
Speaker 2: five years ago, there was a whole lot of options
Speaker 2: on the radar from an offering perspective in the Australian
Speaker 2: market of an adult sophisticated drink that wasn't alcoholic, and
Speaker 2: that's that's what we do.
Speaker 3: And so our goal is to change Australia's relationship with alcohol,
Speaker 3: and that's what we're really trying to do and advocate
Speaker 3: for native Australian plants, but I'll get to that a
Speaker 3: bit later. But as you mentioned, as you say, that's
Speaker 3: that's the offering that we're trying to provide for Australian consumers.
Speaker 3: But there's a fair old backstory of that. So that's
Speaker 3: I'm just giving you the little five seconds shot of
Speaker 3: the big reason why for us is to change australia
Speaker 3: relationship with alcohol and provide great tasting, non alcoholic adult rates.
Speaker 3: But prior to that, we've both come from the wine
Speaker 3: industry two decades twenty three years in the wine industry,
Speaker 3: both as a wine maker, as management marketing sales. And
Speaker 3: what happened in our story is that my relationship with
Speaker 3: wine went from the love of my life who it
Speaker 3: tried to kill me. And that's the truth behind all
Speaker 3: the authenticity behind what we're doing now is the fact
Speaker 3: that I haven't had a drink now for six years.
Speaker 3: But that journey, I guess, and with our beverage experience
Speaker 3: and with this awareness that hang on, we still love
Speaker 3: socializing and some great things when we dine or when
Speaker 3: we socialize. Let's use our skills to add value to
Speaker 3: the community and due to Australians and offerings that are
Speaker 3: out there. And that's a really long answer to how
Speaker 3: we started, but also a little bit of a tease
Speaker 3: into some of the snippets of re authenticity of why
Speaker 3: we exist. We're not just a couple of wo have
Speaker 3: come up with a money's idea. It's come out of
Speaker 3: a real need that we personally observed, and we observed
Speaker 3: that others in Australia could benefit from.
Speaker 2: And do you drink?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: So I stopped drinking to support Jason. So I'm about
Speaker 2: six and a half years. I don't really call myself sober,
Speaker 2: but I'm six and a half years alcohol free. So
Speaker 2: I stopped drinking before Jason to try and support him
Speaker 2: in drinking less during you know, during those last days
Speaker 2: of the heavy drinking. And yeah, I've just not I've
Speaker 2: not picked up a drink.
Speaker 3: Since, you know, through my recovery. I guess I'm really
Speaker 3: grateful that I didn't lose everything. Wasn't far from it,
Speaker 3: Probably only one drink away. But you know they talk
Speaker 3: about the yets in you know, haven't lost your job yet,
Speaker 3: haven't lost your finances yet, haven't lost your family yet.
Speaker 3: I might have only been one yet away. It wasn't
Speaker 3: actually a choice I was. I was pretty crooked at
Speaker 3: the end, and so it ended up being some of
Speaker 3: your cohorts that helped me out at Frankston Emergency for
Speaker 3: a couple of days. And it was at that point
Speaker 3: that I was really sick. Then I was powerless and
Speaker 3: over alcohol and the life was unmanageable. So it was
Speaker 3: a a period in time and acute illness period of
Speaker 3: time where I just had lost power and I was
Speaker 3: struggling with life. I guess having these chats, it's an
Speaker 3: interesting one about you know, we sometimes wear two hats.
Speaker 3: We've certainly got this commercial lens of yet with two
Speaker 3: business founders that are running a little family business. But
Speaker 3: it's coming from a place of of realness and authenticity
Speaker 3: to add to help people and have kept with a
Speaker 3: genuine need and desire that we see around for care.
Speaker 3: And I just as a beverage producers for so long,
Speaker 3: just didn't really and I didn't pick that up. The
Speaker 3: whole thing about caring for yourself and awareness that all
Speaker 3: that sort of stuff didn't come out for me until
Speaker 3: I know I had that forced maturing as a forty
Speaker 3: five year old at that time.
Speaker 2: Male.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a tough journey to go on, and I
Speaker 1: it is funny. I find it tough to look back.
Speaker 1: Did you find that people fell away from your life
Speaker 1: Jason and Andy that you weren't drinking anymore?
Speaker 2: I think removing alcohol from your life can shed some
Speaker 2: people from your life that perhaps aren't there for the
Speaker 2: right reasons. But I think the overwhelming majority stuck around.
Speaker 2: And I think what was more interesting is that by
Speaker 2: being vulnerable and sharing, Jason sharing his story and me
Speaker 2: having great friends that I can share my story with,
Speaker 2: we found that so many people felt more connected because
Speaker 2: we were being vulnerable and authentic and yeah, it actually
Speaker 2: like I know, Jason spoke to a table full of
Speaker 2: people that he barely knew. It was a wine function,
Speaker 2: I think, and shared his story and there was tears
Speaker 2: around the table saying me too. You know all my
Speaker 2: husbands was similar situation, or my wife or my auntie
Speaker 2: or what you know, like every single person knew somebody
Speaker 2: who had benefit to negatively by alcohol. And I think
Speaker 2: that's why for me, this sharing our story is really
Speaker 2: important because yeah, it's exposing that to other people and
Speaker 2: letting people see that it's that it's okay because it's stigmatized.
Speaker 3: It takes this thing out of this or you know,
Speaker 3: if there's perceived shame, which is one hurdle to get over,
Speaker 3: isn't it absolutely impart to go how can I be
Speaker 3: in Australian and not drink? Or I'm shamed for let
Speaker 3: this thing get old of me, or I'm shamed of
Speaker 3: myself and all of that negative self self talk is
Speaker 3: a part of the transition.
Speaker 2: Shame drives in silence, so it's by shining a light
Speaker 2: and saying, well, this is what happened, and you know,
Speaker 2: this is this is what it looks like, and it
Speaker 2: takes that shames.
Speaker 1: And look at your life now, you know. And I
Speaker 1: think that's where it's absolutely fantastic in that you can go. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I went through a really shitty time. It was horrendous.
Speaker 1: Got the help I needed. You know, I still have
Speaker 1: to touch base and you know, look after myself and
Speaker 1: show myself tenermous. But look where we are now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know I'm doing a podcast and you were making
Speaker 1: you know, X sparkling. It's remarkable. Do you guys find
Speaker 1: that industry, that wine industry. A lot of people that
Speaker 1: work in that space have an issue with alcohol.
Speaker 3: Probably comes and say hospitality as well. I put in
Speaker 3: the same budget whenever you've got probably some of those
Speaker 3: intense work experiences and healthcare professionals. So if you've got
Speaker 3: a lot of emotional and mental stuff happening in a
Speaker 3: short period of time, yeah, sometimes you're looking for a
Speaker 3: solution to just oh just let me rest. Now, in
Speaker 3: the wind industry, in the hospitality that let me rest
Speaker 3: solution is this self medication called boost.
Speaker 1: Oh it's so glamorized, all that.
Speaker 3: Stuff and it's just so yeah. Look, it's just because
Speaker 3: it's around you all the time.
Speaker 2: And the culture and the culture and the accessibility.
Speaker 3: So my rehab facility, right, this is when we're talking
Speaker 3: about accessibility in Australia. My rehab was it was eight
Speaker 3: k's away in Mornington and there's eleven liquor outlets between
Speaker 3: yeah and there. But that is just ridiculous. So I
Speaker 3: talking about accessibility, and I'm talking big box, big supermarket branded.
Speaker 3: It was right down to little boutique. Yeah, but eleven
Speaker 3: and yeah. The funniest well, it's not funny.
Speaker 2: I remember absolutely not thinking it was funny at the time,
Speaker 2: but going into rehab to visit Jason, and he had it,
Speaker 2: you know, window.
Speaker 3: Looking out over the rooftops, but.
Speaker 2: The only thing you could see other than these rooftops
Speaker 2: was the thirsty camel sign.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I just thought, oh my god, that's terrible.
Speaker 2: Can someone just, you know, somehow just cover that a
Speaker 2: little bit up?
Speaker 3: You know? But that's life.
Speaker 2: And I think for me taking the blinkers off all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, everywhere I go in particularly in those
Speaker 2: early days, every bus shelter I saw had a ad.
Speaker 2: Walking into the grocery store, there were there were ads
Speaker 2: on the outside of the grocery store and the body
Speaker 2: of wine here, and like it's just it's just everywhere,
Speaker 2: as you say, it's glamorized.
Speaker 3: So for us, it's all about.
Speaker 2: You know, making sure we can have fun and celebrate
Speaker 2: and do all of the things that we would always
Speaker 2: have done, just without boozing our glass. So we can
Speaker 2: still now have a beautiful, fancy drink. I feel like
Speaker 2: we're standing around at a barbecue with it, you know,
Speaker 2: a drink in a hand, but it just doesn't have
Speaker 2: to include alcohol.
Speaker 1: So has the business in that last you know, six
Speaker 1: years gone from or five years here to here? Have
Speaker 1: you found? It's really because I feel that there's a shift,
Speaker 1: and particularly the younger generation all over not drinking. Have
Speaker 1: you found there's there's been huge support, I know, you
Speaker 1: know sober in the country. Support you guys, Clean Slate
Speaker 1: we do.
Speaker 3: We do farmers market everywhere on the weekend. When we
Speaker 3: started five years ago, people would walk past and that
Speaker 3: would be trying to be polite, but trying to be
Speaker 3: but being a bit funny, a smarter and alcohol free.
Speaker 3: What would you bother with a smile on their face,
Speaker 3: But behind that there's this little sting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and.
Speaker 3: We'd listened to it and you but now five years
Speaker 3: down the track, we would get any more fault Well
Speaker 3: when we very rarely get that, we now get thank you.
Speaker 3: But that's the massive shift and the acceptance of and
Speaker 3: the quality is improved. So in five years, the biggest
Speaker 3: shift has been that the industry stepped up a bit
Speaker 3: and instead of making adult drinks for sugar and chemicals
Speaker 3: but just try and replicate something that they're not, the
Speaker 3: industry has actually stepped up because it's now commercially viable
Speaker 3: having successful businesses. We're having shells in supermarkets and in
Speaker 3: big box liquor retailers that are dedicated to the space
Speaker 3: and it's weeding out a lot of the poor quality products.
Speaker 3: So therefore, if the products are good and they're desirable drink,
Speaker 3: then what does it matter if it's got ethan only
Speaker 3: it or not? If you just if you're not a personally,
Speaker 3: if you're a normy but an adult dream if it's
Speaker 3: like ours, it just should be greatness, aromatics, incredible structure
Speaker 3: matches to food is Moorish and then that's what it
Speaker 3: should be. So the industry has really stepped up to
Speaker 3: the plate and that was when we see chain and
Speaker 3: acceptance of adult beverages.
Speaker 1: Because you guys, it's all Australian sauced and Australian ingredients
Speaker 1: and flavors and fragrances and which I think is really fabulous.
Speaker 3: The story behind that, when I was getting well, our
Speaker 3: local uncle Lionel, our local First Nations leader, down here
Speaker 3: on the morning to niche there are some of my
Speaker 3: favorite running tracks were in the bush down here in
Speaker 3: the morning and pinsula and Lionel took me down these
Speaker 3: and who was teaching me and we were eating the
Speaker 3: whole way down. He was doing some healing with me,
Speaker 3: which is just incredible. And that really just opened my
Speaker 3: eyes to how this is incredible, these native Australian fruits
Speaker 3: and herbs that I had no idea what the properties were.
Speaker 3: And it was at a time when I just logged
Speaker 3: that just logged it thought, how can I help amplify
Speaker 3: this from a sustainable agricultural perspective, from an awareness perspective,
Speaker 3: we need to know this stuff because it can be
Speaker 3: a part of our diet. And that's where that was
Speaker 3: the thought start of that, Well, what are we going
Speaker 3: to do for the rest of our lives? We can't
Speaker 3: make wine anymore? It was, well, how do we make
Speaker 3: an adult drink that taste great? How do we amplify
Speaker 3: native Australian fruits and herbs? And from uncle line introduce
Speaker 3: us to people all over the country. And so we
Speaker 3: now select native plants from Northern Territory, from Queenslan in
Speaker 3: New South Wales, from South Australia and Victoria and tasm
Speaker 3: and we make them into our drinks. And that's a
Speaker 3: way to sort of say, hey, did you know quandong
Speaker 3: originating from here, or finger lines or Davidson palms or whatever,
Speaker 3: and there's just another interest. So we've pinched a lot
Speaker 3: of our brand ethos and way of communications from the
Speaker 3: wine industry really because there's stories. There's there's stories around hey,
Speaker 3: this plant's connected to this country and this is the
Speaker 3: benefits from you, and this is where it's harvested and
Speaker 3: how it's harvested here it is.
Speaker 1: I think that's brilliant, especially when you hit that overseas market.
Speaker 2: It's similar to I guess where you'd say, you know,
Speaker 2: here's a chardona from this region in front. We're trying
Speaker 2: to do that with Australian ingredients. And one thing that
Speaker 2: we're really specific in, like we were talking about alcohol
Speaker 2: free drinks and how helpful they can be to people
Speaker 2: when they're trying to cut back drinking. Like for us,
Speaker 2: we have a lot of people who are just trying
Speaker 2: to cut back and so having the wine and they'll
Speaker 2: have a etch in a glass of wine, but I'm
Speaker 2: sorry in a glass. But for us, it was really
Speaker 2: important that we didn't want to replicate alcohol. So we're
Speaker 2: trying to challenge that idea that adult drinks need to look, smell,
Speaker 2: and taste like alcohol to be sophisticated and grown up.
Speaker 2: And I think that's probably our main point of difference.
Speaker 1: There, because don't they say, and I have been too
Speaker 1: afraid to drink wine or champagne because they were might
Speaker 1: drink of choice, that the alcohol free wines, that there's
Speaker 1: evidence now that you have the same visceral response even
Speaker 1: though there's no ethanol in it, because of the taste
Speaker 1: and the way it's poured and in the glass, that
Speaker 1: you actually have a very similar response to if you
Speaker 1: were drinking alcohol. So I have been very It's funny.
Speaker 1: I can do the non alcoholic gin in a in
Speaker 1: a mocktail, but there's just no way I would drink
Speaker 1: or touch the non alcoholic wine or champagne. A it
Speaker 1: tastes like crap. But b it it's that I don't
Speaker 1: want to drink anything that's going to be at all
Speaker 1: similar to what my issue was.
Speaker 3: Well, you've got to put up boundaries, and it sounds
Speaker 3: like you've got strong boundaries and that's it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I'd rather drink something like itch or
Speaker 1: a beautiful sparkling water with some lime in it or
Speaker 1: something like that, then.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's okay.
Speaker 2: Like that's where Itch came into it, because I used
Speaker 2: to go to I remember the Christmas party of the
Speaker 2: year Jason stopped drinking and everyone was standing around with
Speaker 2: a wine glass in their hand or a can of
Speaker 2: beer or something, and I had my soda water and
Speaker 2: a little top of were container with fresh lime in it,
Speaker 2: you know that, because I don't like sweet sugary drinks,
Speaker 2: and so that's where the delicate aromatic flavors come from.
Speaker 2: With eh, but yes, with you know, with drinking alcohol
Speaker 2: free drinks. I know Jason can drink alcohol free beer
Speaker 2: is okay, but we don't drink the wines for a
Speaker 2: similar reason. And I think you just have to be
Speaker 2: really careful and set your own boundaries because for some
Speaker 2: people they say they're you know, they're amazing and really helpful,
Speaker 2: and some people find them really helpful. In the early days,
Speaker 2: but thems that don't need them after a while. For me,
Speaker 2: it's it's sort of different in that because I watched
Speaker 2: what wine did to my husband, I just am repulsed
Speaker 2: by it now. So it's a difference. It's not a
Speaker 2: case of me wanting to look like I'm having a
Speaker 2: wine like I just think, why would I want to?
Speaker 2: But yeah, everyone's got to have their own their own reasons.
Speaker 1: That's so interesting. You actually, when you go out to
Speaker 1: a function that other people are drinking wine, how do
Speaker 1: you feel.
Speaker 2: There's never any judgment on anybody else. I just think,
Speaker 2: why would you want to put that in your body?
Speaker 2: I just I look at it now and go, yeah,
Speaker 2: I just have no desire. I mean I went out
Speaker 2: with friends recently and they were all having spicy margaritas,
Speaker 2: and they all had two or three or four or
Speaker 2: five over the night. And you know, I say this
Speaker 2: story that they were one hundred dollars poorer at the end.
Speaker 2: They were all saying to me, oh, so sweet, I've
Speaker 2: got you know, I've got this real sweet, sickly taste
Speaker 2: in my mouth.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: They couldn't drive home, so I had to drive them home.
Speaker 2: And the next day they woke up feeling a crap
Speaker 2: and I had a great night. I can't even remember
Speaker 2: what I had. I think I had sparkling water, so
Speaker 2: I was really hydrated that night.
Speaker 3: Yeah, probably woke up.
Speaker 2: Feeling a bit smike the next day. But yeah, there's
Speaker 2: never I mean, there's never anyjudgment from me. What other
Speaker 2: people do, I don't sort of that doesn't bother me
Speaker 2: at all. But yeah, I just I have zero interest
Speaker 2: in alcohol free wines.
Speaker 1: Or I just want to get to a point and
Speaker 1: I've just got a bail. On nights like that, I
Speaker 1: can't be around people that are heavily intoxicated anymore. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: are you the same, Jason?
Speaker 3: I was just took the words out of my mouth.
Speaker 3: That's one of my boundaries. As soon as the words
Speaker 3: starts slurring or the stories are repeating, exit stage left.
Speaker 3: No one remembers that you've gone anyway.
Speaker 1: No, they don't remember they Yeah, it was a great party.
Speaker 2: The values change as well, so you know, it's one
Speaker 2: stage you probably really wanted to do the last to
Speaker 2: leave because you're having sobolutely having the best time of
Speaker 2: your life. But when you're not drinking, you may then
Speaker 2: have more value on what you're going to do the
Speaker 2: next day, and you know, you know that you can
Speaker 2: have just as good a time until maybe nine or ten,
Speaker 2: go home, have a solid app you know, nine hour
Speaker 2: eight hour sleep, Yeah, wake up and actually make use
Speaker 2: of the day.
Speaker 1: Which is yea and the day is not wasted.
Speaker 3: One of the key things I've experienced is the development
Speaker 3: of that genuine interest in other people that has come
Speaker 3: from not drinking, and the fact that in the past
Speaker 3: I'll probably be inebriating. You'd always be one upping the
Speaker 3: stories and thinking of what you can do next or whatever,
Speaker 3: Whereas now you can quite hacklelegious. You're listening to what
Speaker 3: a person's saying, and you can ask intelligent questions and
Speaker 3: you come out of it going wow, that was a
Speaker 3: cool conversation. That was a good person, or I learned
Speaker 3: something or I took a gold nugget out of there
Speaker 3: or whatever that would never have happened because another line
Speaker 3: and you forget what you were so I.
Speaker 1: Couldn't agree more. That is so so true, and I
Speaker 1: think I'm a far better person without drinking. I'm definitely kinder.
Speaker 1: I just am a better person. I've get more done,
Speaker 1: and I think, like I said before, when I spoke
Speaker 1: with Chris from Clean Slate. I have found women in
Speaker 1: particular my age, can be quite awful when they're inebriated.
Speaker 1: It's nice not to be around that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you guys have aligned yourself with some amazing not
Speaker 1: for profits, Sober in the Country being one. How is
Speaker 1: that going for you guys, Like, do you actively support
Speaker 1: them with functions and supplying the drinks or is it
Speaker 1: just that you want to support organizations that are, you know,
Speaker 1: supporting people that are having issues with alcohol.
Speaker 3: With Sober in the Country, it's a little bit of
Speaker 3: it's probably It's definitely not a commercial drive because I'm
Speaker 3: a member of the group, as Jason Quinn not as
Speaker 3: ch I mentioned talk about it, people talk about it
Speaker 3: in the community, and because we're really clear on that
Speaker 3: delineation here is when we're trying to be a commercial business,
Speaker 3: that's a separate, completely separate thing. Our partnership with not
Speaker 3: for profits as you've mentioned, clans like so in the Country,
Speaker 3: it's around amplification of options and about the benefits of
Speaker 3: just some lifestyle changes that if you are if you
Speaker 3: were ill like where I was, there's there's routes to help.
Speaker 3: If you're on the pathway if we can plant the
Speaker 3: seed to go, Hey, just give some check in, don't
Speaker 3: have one of the yets happened to you yet, just
Speaker 3: make some changes. And that's why we really like to
Speaker 3: work with people that like that, because we can we
Speaker 3: can help amplify their stories and we can help facilitate
Speaker 3: someone's change. We're feedback on the email this week saying
Speaker 3: you've changed the shape of my husband in a funny
Speaker 3: what way because he's changes his relationship with Boom. He's
Speaker 3: lost people wait his exercise, and that for us is
Speaker 3: worth so much more than a black numbered P and
Speaker 3: L at the end of the month. Yeah, of course
Speaker 3: that's what we do. What we do. Yes, we're trying
Speaker 3: to run a business, but we're very clear on what's separate.
Speaker 3: It's about advocacy and aunlification of the healthy way of being.
Speaker 2: And I think when we first launched it, they were
Speaker 2: in bottles and I always say, itch is a message
Speaker 2: in a bottle, So it's it's for me. Sober in
Speaker 2: the country helps us to get our drinks into the
Speaker 2: hands of people who actually need our drinks, not just one.
Speaker 2: So for some people, I mean I've had numerous messages
Speaker 2: which just likes that boat, just saying, you know, your
Speaker 2: drinks have changed my life, which is an incredible statement
Speaker 2: when you're talking about a drink company. And I just
Speaker 2: think for us, it's not just about the drinks. It's
Speaker 2: the fact that we're standing here saying this is our story,
Speaker 2: this is what happened to us. You don't have to
Speaker 2: get to this point, you know, check in with your
Speaker 2: relationship with alcohol. And again for me, I'm fifty two
Speaker 2: and I speak to people all the time who in
Speaker 2: my age group who say, oh, I just can't drink
Speaker 2: like I used to drink, or you know, I get
Speaker 2: a headache now every time I drink, And there's actually
Speaker 2: a reason for that. It's not just that you're you know,
Speaker 2: you need to drink more to get practice. Your body
Speaker 2: is actually processes are changing in your body. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: being able to share these stories and yeah, talk to
Speaker 2: people like you and your audience that hopefully can you know,
Speaker 2: there'll be people who need to hear the message.
Speaker 1: And without a doubt, that's one of the things I'm
Speaker 1: really support Fair Australia and they recently released a statement
Speaker 1: on Instagram about how Facebook is looking at the algorithms
Speaker 1: and targeting people that have alcohol and gambling issues and
Speaker 1: then they specifically target those people and you've got the
Speaker 1: ethics around that is so wrong, and I mean, how
Speaker 1: do you stop that? And of course Fair are trying
Speaker 1: to stop that through legislation. And you know the ads
Speaker 1: and you know the stuff with Schoolies last year that
Speaker 1: hard Solo came out and that was all done a
Speaker 1: little bit, you know, in a naughty manner, but it
Speaker 1: got through before Schoolies and then they pulled it. And
Speaker 1: you know, we need people like you guys and organizations
Speaker 1: like Fair and Sober in the country. Two, I think
Speaker 1: really highlight what's going on out there, and it is
Speaker 1: a problem in our country. You know, it is a
Speaker 1: cultural thing and they're targeting the most vulnerable and things
Speaker 1: have to change in that in that regard.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I'm going to bug in there because I so
Speaker 2: on my daily scroll I am constantly fed alcohol advertising.
Speaker 2: And do you know how you can go in and
Speaker 2: see why am I seeing this ad? And so I
Speaker 2: will go in and say, don't show me this ad.
Speaker 2: And you can actually put in their words to not
Speaker 2: show me, and I've put in their numerous times don't
Speaker 2: show me, whine and don't show me alcohol, but it
Speaker 2: doesn't change.
Speaker 3: I'm constant getting it.
Speaker 2: And I mean the challenge we've got is we use
Speaker 2: the word alcohol free. So the word alcohol is in there,
Speaker 2: but it's I just think there needs to be some
Speaker 2: changes in that because I'm constantly thinking about, well, what
Speaker 2: if I was a vulnerable person and I was trying
Speaker 2: to stop and this is just constantly being said to me.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely. And imagine gambling, the gambling ads and people
Speaker 1: that have a real issue with gambled I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think the alcohol adds are bad, but I think
Speaker 1: gambling is ten times worse.
Speaker 3: There's too much money commercially in alcohol. There's too much
Speaker 3: excise tax being raped in by the government. Of every
Speaker 3: unit of alcohol they get hot nearly half of it.
Speaker 1: Oh is it half?
Speaker 3: Well, depending on whether it's a wine, a beer, or
Speaker 3: a spirit, I don't know. Is that the exact excise
Speaker 3: numbers per per category? Yeah, excuse me this, but I
Speaker 3: know from a wine perspective, there's twenty nine percent wine equalization.
Speaker 3: That's plus the GST, so you're already up to thirty
Speaker 3: one percent of that every unit of your bottle, picture,
Speaker 3: forty percent of it's going off to tax, so.
Speaker 1: The government's not going to change anything because they're breaking
Speaker 1: the money.
Speaker 2: And it's very similar to cigarettes, though when you think
Speaker 2: about cigarettes twenty years ago, it would have been a
Speaker 2: very similar thing attacks. But it's education and people speaking up,
Speaker 2: and I think there is definitely a shift happening. The
Speaker 2: younger generation are drinking less. They're having their green smoothies
Speaker 2: and doing a yogurt instead of hungover, and I think
Speaker 2: there is a shift. And I think the more you know,
Speaker 2: social media is a great tool for sharing this information
Speaker 2: as well all that we talk about the fact. I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't want us to come across as prohibitioness because
Speaker 2: if you can enjoy drinking, you know, in moderation, you
Speaker 2: do you But we know that alcohols a type one carcinogen.
Speaker 2: But I mean do we know that? I know that,
Speaker 2: But is that a public you know? I feel like
Speaker 2: that's something that not everyone knows.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: People don't know that. I just think it's good for
Speaker 1: your health because they've been told that red wine is
Speaker 1: good for your health. It's all the antioxidants.
Speaker 3: Information.
Speaker 2: We could make educated choices about what we want to
Speaker 2: do with them. But I think when we're not being
Speaker 2: given the information or you know, and perhaps in some
Speaker 2: cases you wouldn't want to hear it, so you're not
Speaker 2: going to hear it even if it's there.
Speaker 3: But I just think it can be.
Speaker 2: Shared more, and you know, social media is a break.
Speaker 3: Tool for that.
Speaker 1: I absolutely agree with you, and I think social media
Speaker 1: can be used for so much good and not target
Speaker 1: so many vulnerable people because you are vulnerable when you're
Speaker 1: in that state. You don't care what it takes to
Speaker 1: get a drink. You just want that ethanol in your system.
Speaker 3: More home delivery services have popped up, particularly after COVID
Speaker 3: solution to get delivery home. There was an unfortunate death
Speaker 3: in Sydney where I think that people media where a
Speaker 3: gentleman as he was an addictive person and just kept
Speaker 3: and he was founded, and I think that it's just
Speaker 3: a shocking scenario that occur.
Speaker 1: I just found it hard during COVID that the wine,
Speaker 1: you know, the bottle, is that sort of thing we're
Speaker 1: deemed as a necessary business and if you think about it,
Speaker 1: we probably all would have literally had a meltdown if
Speaker 1: they hadn't been able to buy alcohol, because you know,
Speaker 1: that would have just stopped and everyone would have lost
Speaker 1: their shit, but it's pretty sad that it's seemed as
Speaker 1: an essential service.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that shows you again much the government had
Speaker 2: something to lose if they would, you know, and you're
Speaker 2: rightly right in saying that there would have been a
Speaker 2: lot of very angry people there are and probably a
Speaker 2: lot of really sick people who would absolutely touring as well.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, without without a doubt, I think they.
Speaker 2: Considered all that probably, But I just feel so grateful
Speaker 2: that Jason had got sober brightic COVID because I really
Speaker 2: feel people during that time, when you know, you are isolated,
Speaker 2: and that's something that you often do when you're in
Speaker 2: that state, is isolate yourself, and I think people being
Speaker 2: stuck at home. We have so many people say that
Speaker 2: they stopped drinking during that time. And for us, we
Speaker 2: started our business in November twenty.
Speaker 3: Nineteen and this happened he very much and it.
Speaker 2: Was really interesting for us watching the initial lockdowns, everyone
Speaker 2: was drinking, but that second lockdown, for us in Victoria,
Speaker 2: a lot of people stopped drinking and that's when we
Speaker 2: started to get a lot of interest because they were saying, well,
Speaker 2: hang on, you know, we're starting at lunchtime now. And
Speaker 2: you know, we need to put a pullback. And I
Speaker 2: think that's where the rise of the alcohol free drinks
Speaker 2: space really took off.
Speaker 1: It's interesting when you have a platform, the number of
Speaker 1: people that reach out to you. I am constantly asked
Speaker 1: about how I stopped drinking, what I did, how it's
Speaker 1: changed my life? Is it for the better? Was it
Speaker 1: really hard? Like it's really interesting the number of people
Speaker 1: that do approach me and reach out to me just
Speaker 1: wanting to know how I did it, because there are
Speaker 1: a lot of people out there, I think that are
Speaker 1: really struggling.
Speaker 3: How did you do it?
Speaker 1: That I knew I had a problem. I went saw
Speaker 1: a GP who brushed me off and made me feel
Speaker 1: like fool. I knew a psychiatrist, well, I knew his wife,
Speaker 1: and I reached out to her and said would he
Speaker 1: feel comfortable in seeing me? And at this stage, I
Speaker 1: was at a tipping point where I was going to
Speaker 1: get really bad, and I went and saw him. He
Speaker 1: put me on Campero for six months. But from the
Speaker 1: day he put me on it, I just decided I
Speaker 1: wasn't going to drink again, and I haven't. So you know,
Speaker 1: whether I had alcohol use disorder or not or I mean,
Speaker 1: I certainly was behaving as someone that was starting to
Speaker 1: get very out of control. I don't know, I don't
Speaker 1: know how I was just able to stop, but I did,
Speaker 1: and I just made my mind up. And I haven't
Speaker 1: had a drink since then and won't because life is
Speaker 1: so much better without it.
Speaker 2: I think those words like olcoholic can be a really
Speaker 2: derogatory word.
Speaker 3: I hate it, yeah, and I.
Speaker 2: Think I mean I used to use it not a
Speaker 2: positive but in a neutral word way, but so many
Speaker 2: people say I'm not an alcoholic, and I think I
Speaker 2: think it's considered quite a stigmatized word. Yes, so I
Speaker 2: think the alcohol used disorder and the fact that there's
Speaker 2: so many different levels of alcohols disorder. Absolutely, And also,
Speaker 2: like the gray area, drinking is also something that resonates
Speaker 2: with a lot of people you might not consider yourself,
Speaker 2: like for me, I remember doing a lot of googling
Speaker 2: in these days, going, well, I knew there was the
Speaker 2: man on the park bench, you know that was brown
Speaker 2: paper bag, but my husband doesn't look like that, So
Speaker 2: why is he so sick? And why can't he stop drinking?
Speaker 3: What's he? Then?
Speaker 2: And you know, I remember googling what does an alcoholic
Speaker 2: look like? Or you know, how do you know if
Speaker 2: one's an alcoholic? And I think, I mean that's one
Speaker 2: thing in itself is that if you questioning whether you've
Speaker 2: got a.
Speaker 3: Problem with alcohol, you got a problem. You've probably got
Speaker 3: a problem with alcohol.
Speaker 2: Because people who don't have a problem with alcohol don't google.
Speaker 1: That's it exactly.
Speaker 3: See.
Speaker 1: I don't like the term sober either. I have a
Speaker 1: and it's just me. I just have an issue with it.
Speaker 1: I'm just a non drinker. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well I say alcohol free because I think being free
Speaker 2: is liberating and so yeah, I'm free of alcohol.
Speaker 1: Because to me, sober has a connotation around being an alcoholic.
Speaker 1: And I really have an issue with the term alcoholic
Speaker 1: because you know, I didn't miss a day of work,
Speaker 1: and you know, I just managed my drinking hard and
Speaker 1: fast so I could go to bed and then but
Speaker 1: it got to the stage earth honestly, I was, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was going down a very dark hole.
Speaker 2: I think this fear of the word alcoholic. I hear
Speaker 2: so many people say I'm not an alcoholic.
Speaker 3: I'm not.
Speaker 2: You know, I wasn't an alcoholic, but I had to
Speaker 2: stop drinking and I just think, yeah, just take the
Speaker 2: power out of that word, like it just you know, you.
Speaker 3: Have a problem. You may have had an issue with alcohol.
Speaker 2: Whether you're an alcoholic or not, it doesn't matter, you
Speaker 2: know that the point is that you're that you're trying
Speaker 2: to get well and to get off. You don't have
Speaker 2: to put yourself into a box and say, well, gosh,
Speaker 2: am I an alcoholic or am I? I think it's
Speaker 2: just alcohol is not serving me. And I do not
Speaker 2: know anybody who has stopped drinking who wishes they were
Speaker 2: back in that state.
Speaker 3: You so mind you.
Speaker 1: I must say, I have used the term alcoholic when
Speaker 1: people have hustled me and hassled me to have a
Speaker 1: drink like you've been out, and they goingnah, come on,
Speaker 1: you're right, you know you're fine. And I actually have
Speaker 1: turned around and said, listen mate, I'm an alkie, so
Speaker 1: you know you need to back off. That stops the
Speaker 1: conversation pretty quick. They go, oh god, sorry, yeah, it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, just back off, It's okay, I don't want
Speaker 1: to drink. They just can't let it go. But guys,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming in and chatting with me.
Speaker 1: And I really appreciate the fact that you're both so
Speaker 1: open about your journey because having been there myself, you
Speaker 1: know it has its moments. And I'm just delighted that
Speaker 1: you've got such an amazing product, and you know that
Speaker 1: you're out there helping communities and sober in the country
Speaker 1: and people that really are quite vulnerable and need assistance.
Speaker 1: So it's wonderful that you're applying a drink that makes
Speaker 1: us all feel dare I say it normal? So I
Speaker 1: love it.
Speaker 3: Well. I guess you should put a plug in for
Speaker 3: sober in the country. If you're out in the regions,
Speaker 3: get in touch with the crew. Wonderful website resource that
Speaker 3: has support services, reading material and then contact information as well.
Speaker 3: That's more dedicated to people out in the bush. And
Speaker 3: I guess to read the city based people, it would
Speaker 3: be Chris and it's clean slate.
Speaker 1: And if you want to try and change the dialogue
Speaker 1: around alcohol, then get on board with Fair Australia because
Speaker 1: they're often after people to write in or share their
Speaker 1: stories things like that, So I think Fair needs a
Speaker 1: fair bit of support as well. So there are some
Speaker 1: great organizations out there that are really trying to change
Speaker 1: the landscape around alcohol. Yeah, and you guys are one
Speaker 1: of them.
Speaker 2: And just one last word on edge is that each
Speaker 2: stands for every time choose health. And I think you know,
Speaker 2: when you're in that state where you're trying to drink less,
Speaker 2: it's opening the fridge and sy know canavech there and going,
Speaker 2: what's my choice the bottle of wine or the can
Speaker 2: of beage, And you know that's that little message that
Speaker 2: hopefully helps somebody.
Speaker 1: I think that's wonderful