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Speaker 1: I mentioned this at the start. The Adelaide City Council

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Speaker 1: have put out their twenty thirty six vision the two

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Speaker 1: hundredth Anniversary of South Australia. It's all about increasing population

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Speaker 1: and on the wish list is tram extension into North Adelaide,

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Speaker 1: which can't happen until the City Bridge as it's known,

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Speaker 1: this is the bridge over the Torrents along King William

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Speaker 1: Street is rebuilt because it needs to be any way,

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Speaker 1: regardless it's going to have if not already, then weight

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Speaker 1: limits put on it in terms of heavy vehicles because

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Speaker 1: it's coming up to one hundred years old. It's in

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Speaker 1: the nineties now, about ninety three or so years old,

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Speaker 1: so it will need to be rebuilt to take trams

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Speaker 1: moving forward, even though of course it used to back

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Speaker 1: in the day. But trams i suppose are heavier now,

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Speaker 1: they're certainly longer than they used to be, and they

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Speaker 1: wanted to go to North Adelaide. Part of the reason

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Speaker 1: is to hook up the Aquatic Center Adelaide Zoo, which

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Speaker 1: is in a different direction, but there it is. The

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Speaker 1: eighty eight O'Connell Street has been part of that's the

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Speaker 1: old Lacorn New site whatever happens to the Women's and

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Speaker 1: Children's and the future you imagine it'll be turned into housing,

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Speaker 1: because we don't have the sense to keep old hospitals

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Speaker 1: as overflows because that we've never needed the old rah,

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Speaker 1: have we after all? So we'll probably won't be needing

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Speaker 1: the Women's and Children's the current one when the new

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Speaker 1: one is built, and that'll become housing. So there'd be

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Speaker 1: a reasonable need for the tram to make its way

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Speaker 1: into North Adelaide. The fabulous Waller Cinemas would love it

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Speaker 1: going all the way to the Piccadilly, I'm sure about that,

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Speaker 1: But put that to one side, because you know, whether

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Speaker 1: that happens or not, needs a lot of work and

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Speaker 1: multi million dollars to extend trams. As we know from

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Speaker 1: the past, we've spent about three hundred million dollars doing

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Speaker 1: it in all the different tram extensions we've done, and

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Speaker 1: so far we haven't replaced a single bus service. But

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Speaker 1: that's another argument or another debate. But this part of

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Speaker 1: the plan just got me and the Lord Mayor. Jane

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Speaker 1: Lomax Smith is quoted in the paper today. She suggests

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Speaker 1: for lanes to be removed from West Terrace, saying this

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Speaker 1: is the quote. We have three terraces which are absolutely

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Speaker 1: stellar in terms of location, development and facilities. She's right.

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Speaker 1: We have one being West Terrace that is a ten

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Speaker 1: lane motorway that separates buildings from the parklands. It would

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Speaker 1: be rational, rational for us to have a narrower route

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Speaker 1: and to reroute most of the through traffic and have

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Speaker 1: high rises there with a seaview end of quote, and

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Speaker 1: you think, well, that would be lovely. But where the

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Speaker 1: heck is all that traffic going to go? Does she

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Speaker 1: not know how it works? West Terrace feeds into Anzac

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Speaker 1: Highway and Goodwood Road, and at the other end, Port

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Speaker 1: Road brings in traffic from the Port and from Grange

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Speaker 1: Road as well. Dr Andrew Allen, Senior Lecturer and Transport,

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Speaker 1: Urban and Regional Planning at UNISA, Andrew, good morning, thank

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Speaker 1: you for your time. Fine, make it narrower, build buildings,

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Speaker 1: but where on earth is that traffic going to go? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Good morning Matthew and your listeners. Yes, I guess there's

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Speaker 2: maybe thought that the North South Motorway might take some

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Speaker 2: of that pressure off. Andre's the city Loop road, But

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Speaker 2: that's taking traffic that doesn't really need to go into

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Speaker 2: the city.

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Speaker 1: That's right exactly.

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Speaker 2: The only other option is get more people on public

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Speaker 2: transport active transport, but active transport would be in for

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Speaker 2: people that are pretty close to the city. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: there is a challenge there that that is a major

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Speaker 2: road corridor that provides traffic into the city. So if

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Speaker 2: you do put a tram service in there, you would

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Speaker 2: be taking at least a couple of lanes out. You

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Speaker 2: might remove some of the curb side parking, but that's

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Speaker 2: only on one side of West Race, where.

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Speaker 1: That's on the eastern side provide more space. So unless

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Speaker 1: you build a tunnel to get rid of the traffic,

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Speaker 1: and other cities have, that's the only solution, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Because I reckon if you're a commuter coming in from

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Speaker 1: say flag Staff Hill or somewhere out that way, just

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Speaker 1: to pick that topic, and you come in along Goodwood Road,

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Speaker 1: you get to crossroad at eight in the morning, and

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Speaker 1: then you're crawling in to West Terrace because of course

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Speaker 1: along West Terrace, similarly, coming along Anzac Highway, all the

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Speaker 1: traffic that's coming from Glenelg and Brighton and you name it,

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Speaker 1: nor Longer are all meeting at that point on West Terrace.

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Speaker 1: And it becomes a nightmare as people try to change

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Speaker 1: lanes and get left or get right depending on their destination,

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Speaker 1: and it all meets there and you can't just you

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Speaker 1: can't just get rid of lanes and say we'll reroot

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Speaker 1: it to where.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you do to look at alternatives. So that's

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Speaker 2: either putting the traffic elsewhere or getting a modal shift

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Speaker 2: on some more public transport. There was a public transport

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Speaker 2: advocacy group last year I think that was talking about well,

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Speaker 2: what we need as a metro, something like what in Melbourne.

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Speaker 2: Sydney has to limited extent, but they're really big ticket items.

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Speaker 2: You're talking about a billion dollars a kilometer underground metro.

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Speaker 1: You mean an underground train network around the city.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so they're really expensive to build. Both, you know,

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Speaker 2: the state government and the Allergicity Council of ambitions for

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Speaker 2: adelaide to be much bigger than the currently is. A

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Speaker 2: city council wants a doubling of population.

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Speaker 1: But just on that, you can't narrow roads if you

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Speaker 1: want to increase the population, because those people have visitors

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Speaker 1: coming to them from outside the city and they'll want

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Speaker 1: to get outside the city. I mean, it's Ultimately it's

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Speaker 1: also for some people more cars.

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Speaker 2: Well that's right. I mean even with some of these

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Speaker 2: city apartments were finding people still want their car. I hope.

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Speaker 2: You know, you add a parking space for our household

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Speaker 2: and grading twenty five thousand and more people to the city,

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Speaker 2: that's probably going to be Well we don't address the

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Speaker 2: transport issue. That's a lot of extra traffic. But the

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Speaker 2: thinking is a city of neighborhoods, people living locally, more

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Speaker 2: walking and cycling, de living within the city, So thinking

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Speaker 2: is that that wouldn't generate as much traffic. But I

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Speaker 2: note that the council are going to do a transport

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Speaker 2: study over the next europe and a half or two years,

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Speaker 2: and the state governments have also flagged that well we

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Speaker 2: need to do something about looking at transport in Adelaide.

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Speaker 2: Many other issue, of course is electrification. You know we're

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Speaker 2: going to be transitioning to zero missions vehicles. A lot

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Speaker 2: of those will be the vehicles that need charging infrastructure.

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Speaker 2: So has some big ticket items learning there, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There are. I think last time we spoke we were

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Speaker 1: talking about Mount Barker, amongst other things, and a potential

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Speaker 1: train line and your metro tunnel. I mean, that's where

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Speaker 1: it makes sense. Where you get a train for arguments,

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Speaker 1: coming in from Gawla, going through under the city from

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Speaker 1: the railway station, coming out around the toll gate or

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Speaker 1: somewhere from a tunnel. So because you know, obviously glen

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Speaker 1: Osmond Road is copying it, it's pretty full at the

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Speaker 1: moment as well. And then following the freeway, a train

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Speaker 1: following the freeway up stopping at Sterling, at Crafers I

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Speaker 1: guess Sterling, Bridgewater and Mount Barker and potentially going onto

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Speaker 1: Murray Bridge along the freeway. That would make sense, but

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Speaker 1: multi billions of dollars to make that happen.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's not a stick business for doing any form

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Speaker 2: of rail. I mean, you know even Lark rail people think, oh,

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Speaker 2: that should cost too much, but Sydney it was costing

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Speaker 2: him about time and sixteen million dollars a kilometer for

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Speaker 2: the Southeast Lark rel project in Gold Coast. The latest

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Speaker 2: stage three is about one hundred and eighty million dollars

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Speaker 2: a kill. Really yeah, so, I mean our buses might

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Speaker 2: be the cheaper, more cost effective solution, but they get

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Speaker 2: caught up in the congestion. Of course, minor trams do too.

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Speaker 2: If you don't give a dedicated right away.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well that's exactly right. So and that's

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Speaker 1: why we've we've taken the shared line off on the

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Speaker 1: western part of the city long King William Street, which

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Speaker 1: cars could use up until the upgrade of about three

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Speaker 1: or four years ago. Where where now it's a dedicated tramline.

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Speaker 2: Mean, one of the things that might need to look

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Speaker 2: at is getting rid of on street parking. Yeah, that

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Speaker 2: would free up a bit of space in the city.

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Speaker 2: I know that there's very little detail in the twenty

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Speaker 2: thirty six City of Adelaide plan, you know, it's kind

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Speaker 2: of more an aspirational statement rather than saying this is

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Speaker 2: where we'll go. So we're not quite sure exactly what

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Speaker 2: the loop will look like and how it will connect.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you mentioned the problems of example, the Adelaide Zoo.

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Speaker 2: How do you then connect.

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Speaker 1: That with say the equality, Yeah exactly. I mean it's

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Speaker 1: out of the way.

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Speaker 2: Oh why that bridge that's down there, the name of

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Speaker 2: it is guss.

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Speaker 1: Me but you know the one by Albert Bridge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that won't take a tram. No, so you either

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Speaker 2: go underground or you maybe go along Victoria Drive and then

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Speaker 2: up Kim william Street. Interestingly, there was a tram up a'

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Speaker 2: connell Street early twentieth century, back in the day. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's not kind of a new idea as much.

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Speaker 1: No, but then you need to fix the City Bridge

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Speaker 1: to get the tram there anyway, rebuild that side.

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Speaker 2: Ah, yeah, something I've got to do that anyway. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean trams would take just the odd tons or

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Speaker 2: something like that. So I think the way that about

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Speaker 2: the thirty something time, okay, And that's a problem with

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Speaker 2: all our bridges. More for the Ale Bridge, I think

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Speaker 2: it's got the same problems. A lot of these bridges

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Speaker 2: only last about forty or fifty years. They need to

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Speaker 2: refurbish them.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So we've got some bridges to fix up in

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Speaker 1: years to come, clearly, because they're all pretty old, aren't

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Speaker 1: they really ultimately.

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Speaker 2: So yes, but I mean everything goes were out eventually. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but it's sometimes a time to sort of rethink how

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Speaker 2: you're doing things. Maybe you can do them better.

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Speaker 1: Well, I suppose if they build a new bridge, for instance,

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Speaker 1: the City Bridge, as you say, needs to be rebuilt,

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Speaker 1: well you'd put the tram tracks in to begin with

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Speaker 1: rather than later.

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Speaker 2: For a start, I mean, the other thing I think

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Speaker 2: that's interesting that Lord Man has said is just SoC

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Speaker 2: iety of value uplift.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: The thinking is that you'll get such an increase in

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Speaker 2: development and the value of property if you can get

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Speaker 2: that across subsidise your investment in transport, then it's a

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Speaker 2: kind of a bit of a win win.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But it's interesting though with some of these bigger projects,

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Speaker 2: for example, Gold Coast Route, they had to get about

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Speaker 2: four hundred million dollars from leave federal government to finance,

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Speaker 2: so that I think it's way beyond the scope of

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Speaker 2: the city Council afford by themselves will probably need both

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Speaker 2: the state and Commonwealth to come and to do those

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Speaker 2: quart ambitious projects.

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Speaker 1: All Right, we'll see.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how. You know, the first step in

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Speaker 2: all of this is putting a vision forward.

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Speaker 1: Well they've done that, but you know, you've got to

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Speaker 1: question the sense of it when you look at West

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Speaker 1: Terrace and they talk about narrowing West Terrace as part

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Speaker 1: of the answer to everything, and yeah, I mean the.

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Speaker 2: Great Adelaide Regional Plan that they're talking about. You know,

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Speaker 2: they've always talked about putting centers in the suburbs, but

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Speaker 2: all they've eventuated to so far as shopping centers, they're

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Speaker 2: not employment centers. So unless you actually get people sort

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Speaker 2: of you know, commuting to those local centers for work

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Speaker 2: rather than into the CBD, you're always going to have

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Speaker 2: that huge traffic pressure on the CBD. So I'm just

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Speaker 2: going forward. I need to try and make the CBD

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Speaker 2: a bit more self contained. Yes, you don't have you know,

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Speaker 2: one hundred plus thousand people coming in every day, or

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Speaker 2: if they do, coming in by public transport.

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Speaker 1: So we need a minato Andrew probably, Yeah, that's I

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Speaker 1: haven't heard of any garments talking about revisiting that. Funnily enough,

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Speaker 1: all right, we'll be housing in amongst the lions, tigers

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Speaker 1: and bears up there nowadays. All right, appreciate your time,

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Speaker 1: thank you, Okay, thank you bye, Doctor Andrew Allen Senior

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Speaker 1: Lecture at Transport, Urban and Regional Planning at UNISA