1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: As I mentioned earlier, our crisis support hotline Lifeline, has 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: experienced its busiest day of the year in the wake 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: of the Bondai shooting, with experts warning the psychological impact 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: of traumatic events do not end when the ambulance and 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: police sirens stop. Lifeline said the twenty four hour period 6 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 1: between midnight on Sunday and Monday have been the busiest 7 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: day of twenty twenty five, with more than four three 8 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: hundred calls for support across its phone and digital crisis 9 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: support services. The people of Australia are hurting, and they're 10 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: hurting badly. And I thought it'd be a very good 11 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: idea and perative in fact, to get somebody who's a 12 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: psychology expert on the program to talk about ways and 13 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: means in which each and every one of us can 14 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: learn to cope and to deal, to learn to process 15 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: with the horrific events that the whole world has now 16 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: seen that happened at Bondai Beach on Sunday night. And 17 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: Mitch Wallace is a psychology thought leader. Mitch, welcome to 18 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: the program. 19 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 2: Andrew, it's a pleasure to be here. 20 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, Mitch, you actually live in Bondai. 21 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 2: I understand I'm calling from Bondai as we speak, and 22 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 2: I was there at the time of the event. 23 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: How how did you deal with it? What did you witness? 24 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: What was your thoughts, emotions As somebody who comes from 25 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: a place of being a trained psychologist. 26 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's quite an interesting position to find yourself in. 27 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 2: And as I was having a beer with some friends 28 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,919 Speaker 2: on Sunday afternoon and I caught someone's face looking outside, 29 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 2: something in my stomach just pinged and said, you know 30 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: that kind of sickening feeling that your bidy sensors go, hmm, 31 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 2: he's not right here. And I looked outside and just 32 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 2: saw a heard of people running up Hall Street, which 33 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 2: is the main street there, and people were yelling shots fired, 34 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 2: shots fired. I then went back inside and said to 35 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 2: my friends, I think has been a shooting, which of 36 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 2: course was met with disbelief. And then over the next 37 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 2: couple of minutes, you're kind of fighting a surreal dream 38 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 2: like state with also needing to be you know, executive 39 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: functioning online and make some decisions for your own safety. 40 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: So what did you do, What was your reaction your 41 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: actions to what was happening. 42 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 2: Well, very quickly, within the first few minutes, we could 43 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 2: ascertain from then multiple sources saying the words shot fired 44 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 2: that this was in fact happening. And then we had 45 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 2: a quick discussion around the table what should we do. 46 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 2: Should we stay inside the pub that we're in, or 47 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 2: should we go out the street and run, And we 48 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 2: decided that it was safer for us to stay inside 49 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 2: the bar and to get low and take cover, and 50 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: so we did that. 51 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, very wise, very wise, being in that particular situation, 52 00:02:54,880 --> 00:03:00,040 Speaker 1: it would have been horrific. And it's just incomprehensible and 53 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: as you've been through something like that to truly understand 54 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: what it would feel like, the range of emotions that 55 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: you'd be going through, and the thoughts that you would 56 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: be having as well, and so. 57 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 2: Far removed from what we would expect from anything like 58 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 2: Australia or Bondai Beach. You know, it's coming at a surprise. 59 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 2: Is not even coming close to describing how foreign it 60 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 2: is to experience that from you know, this beautiful country 61 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 2: that we get to live in. 62 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: It would have been real. I'm just picturing I've only 63 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: been to Bondai a couple of times, but I'm just 64 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: picturing a beautiful sunny day, thousands of people are down 65 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: at Bondai Beach, enjoying the beautiful weather, having fun, laughing. 66 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: When it comes to the Jewish community, they were there 67 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: for a special festival, the Festival of Light. There was 68 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: you know, goodwill all around. We're heading up to Christmas. 69 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: It's a time of joy, and then this horrific thing happens. 70 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: It would have been, like I say, absolutely surreal and 71 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: would have jolted everybody there, no doubt about that. 72 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 2: Well. 73 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: I mentioned Lifeline has received more than four thousand and 74 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: three hundred calls over a twenty four hour period. You 75 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: as a psychologist, what's your experiences when it comes to 76 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: dealing with the people who have been affected, either by 77 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: being there at Bondai Beach on Sunday evening or just 78 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: being in the vicinity or just in gital terms, around 79 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: the around the whole suburb of Bondai and elsewhere around Sydney. 80 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 2: I think the best way to describe it, Andrew is 81 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 2: our sense of safety has been rocked. And I don't 82 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 2: just mean physical safety. I mean psychological and emotional safety. 83 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 2: And when that happens, when something is so threatening to 84 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 2: you know, the security of your own well being and 85 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 2: your family's well being, it kind of rattles different parts 86 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 2: of your nervous system around, and it takes some time 87 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 2: to be able to process that, makes sense of it 88 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 2: and put it in a part of your your brain 89 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: and your understanding that it can sit there peacefully. But 90 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 2: you know, before that happens, it is a tense process 91 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 2: of accepting me unacceptable that you know, we are not 92 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 2: able to control life, and there is uncertainty, and the 93 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: fallout after this, I think for most people is well, 94 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 2: how do I what do I hold on to? Now? 95 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 2: You know, we've come off the back of COVID. Multiple 96 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 2: year ambiguity was rampant, where people already felt like they 97 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 2: weren't in control of their destiny. We're plagued by you know, macroeconomic, 98 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 2: macro political factors at the moment that's causing even more instability. 99 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 2: And then when it hits your front door, it's like 100 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 2: your brain finally realizes this. This affects me in all areas, 101 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 2: and I don't know when I'm going to feel like 102 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 2: I'm back in the driver's seat. And I think, you know, 103 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 2: for the ego, ego from a scientific standpoint, it doesn't 104 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: do well when it doesn't feel like, you know, it's 105 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 2: in the driver's seat, and so a lot of us, 106 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 2: I think, are looking for ways in which we can 107 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 2: get that autonomy back and you know, bring some empowerment 108 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 2: back into our own narratives. 109 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: It's not just the lack of control, Mitch, though. It's 110 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: the fact that horrific events happened on Sunday evening. People 111 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: were shot, innocent men, women and children, old men, a 112 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: young girl ten years old, Matilda killed. And it's not 113 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: just having control, it's knowing that such atrocities have been 114 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: committed on our shores as well. 115 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 2: And I think what you're pointing to rightfully, so Andrew, 116 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 2: is an existential dilemma that we're facing it as well now, 117 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 2: which is, you know, how can humans be like this? 118 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 2: And how can we let this happen? And has the 119 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 2: system failed us? And you know, it kind of speaks 120 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 2: to the control narrative in that if we don't have 121 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 2: a good answer, then you know, we start to feel 122 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 2: really uneasy and even more unsafe, which is why aren't 123 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 2: we protected in a country like this where we are 124 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 2: supposed to feel as safe as as humanly possible. And 125 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 2: you know, I would feel remiss if I didn't or 126 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 2: my heart out to the Jewish community during this interview 127 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 2: and just say that my thoughts and prayers are with 128 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 2: everyone affected. 129 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: And I am in agreeance with you, and I think 130 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: the majority of Australians are too, and I think the 131 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: world in fact is there's no doubt about that. Mitch. 132 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: Parents the young children, I mean the events of Sunday night, 133 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: and I call them the events, the horrific events that 134 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: ch happened on Sunday night. The Big Bash was on 135 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: and the televisions were showing that. So there would have 136 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: been children watching the Big Bash, loving their cricket. There's 137 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: good Australians and then witnessing these horrific events. What do 138 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: parents say to their children when their children get emotional, 139 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: they start crying, they you know, draw into themselves. What 140 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: did they do? What's the best advice you can give 141 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: parents and grandparents for for their children, grandchildren, Because it's 142 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: one thing an adult dealing with this, and I know 143 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: adults included myself. I've been very moved by it myself, 144 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: and I'm sixty one years old. But you think I've 145 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: got life experience and I had. It's not the first 146 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: time I've seen and heard and dealt with things whether 147 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: it be in the media or through life. But for 148 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: young children, this is the first taste of some of 149 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: the horrors that are out there in this world. 150 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and it's a very tough position for parents to 151 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 2: be in right now in a coaching moment, particularly for 152 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 2: younger children, to try and explain the unexplainable. And I 153 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 2: think the reframe that I'll give on what you said is, 154 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 2: instead of what comparents tell their children, it's how comparents 155 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 2: listen to their children first and foremost, which is, instead 156 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 2: of trying to control their narrative and tell them what 157 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 2: to think, assure them, brush over it, ignore the fear, 158 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 2: it's actually inviting that in which is you know, something 159 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 2: you know, really big and really bad just happened. What 160 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: do you understand about that? How does that make you feel? 161 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 2: What are your thoughts? What are your fears? Because it's 162 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 2: not until we actually learn to understand our children, give 163 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 2: them a voice to be able to communicate that that 164 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 2: then we have something to work with because a they 165 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 2: then feel like they can bring those things to you, 166 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 2: which increases the bond they have with their parent and 167 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 2: therefore their ability to become resilient. But also it's not 168 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 2: until you're working with truth that you can actually reassure them, 169 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 2: and so, you know, as painful as it is, parents 170 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 2: need to be patient and invite the child's conversation in 171 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 2: before telling them what to think and believe. 172 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: That's an interesting point you make, because the children quite 173 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: often a're looking for for answers from their parents. 174 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 2: From I think we're led to believe that, Andrea think 175 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:09,719 Speaker 2: we're led to believe that parents lead through telling, when 176 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 2: actually parents lead by guiding, and parents need to invite 177 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 2: a child in to participate before they can guide them somewhere. 178 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 2: And that's probably the biggest mistake I see is someone 179 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 2: that does this for a living. I've written a book 180 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 2: called Real Conversations. I've traveled to four continents and taught 181 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 2: tens of thousands of people. The number one mistake the 182 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 2: business leaders and parents and partners make is trying to 183 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 2: jump straight to solutions when connection is formed through a 184 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 2: shared sense of understanding before you move anywhere. 185 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: We talked about the victims, the feelings of the victims. 186 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: We don't want to say victims. I'm talking about the 187 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: other people who not only were part of it, who 188 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: were shot, who were injured, the people who are around 189 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: who fled the scene at the time. But we're talking 190 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: about that. The victims, the people who are now very 191 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: traumatized by what they've seen. We've talked about that, and 192 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: you've given some good advice, and I thank you for that, Mitche, 193 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 1: But what about the people who are outraged, angry and 194 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: want retribution. What advice do you give to them? 195 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 2: As a psychologist, it's very natural off the back of 196 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 2: grief to feel anger, and I think that anger in 197 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 2: the for the most part, is unprocessed sadness. And so 198 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 2: you know, the biggest piece of advice I can give 199 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 2: is learn to feel into that sadness and find out 200 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 2: what's underneath there. And it's probably a belief system that 201 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 2: this is unfair. So we're in an unfairness conversation before 202 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 2: and more then we're in a retribution conversation. And I 203 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 2: think that you know after what comes after one can 204 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 2: find a sense of calm and a sense of understanding 205 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 2: around exactly why we're feeling the way that we are, 206 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 2: we can take more logical and reasonable action, because what 207 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 2: is Australian is to be reasonable, and I think that 208 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 2: any extreme rotation right now is going to further divide 209 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 2: us when what we need more than ever is connection. 210 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: Mitch, as a psychologist, you're also a human being. What 211 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: are you going to do to deal with the fact 212 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: that you were very close to what happened on Sunday night. 213 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 2: One of the best ways I've found to cope with 214 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 2: the things that I've experienced in life, whether that's dealing 215 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 2: with acute mental illness or going through a trauma like 216 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 2: we witnessed on Sunday, is to go to my nearest 217 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 2: and dearest, to feel understood, to feel loved, and even 218 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 2: though we can't take the problem away, I know that 219 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 2: I'm not alone in it, and that in and of 220 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 2: itself is medicine. So I'm going to continue to walk 221 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 2: that walk, and alongside that being service to other people. 222 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 2: I feel like if I can be a good human being, 223 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 2: pay it forward and live a life of meaning and 224 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 2: purpose by doing my small little bit, then it ultimately 225 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 2: helps me in the process. 226 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: I think that's a good example to each and every 227 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: one of us. Mitch, thank you very much for coming 228 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: on the program and having a chat with us, and 229 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 1: I hope our conversation has helped somebody to go and 230 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: find the answers they're looking for and deal with what 231 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: they are dealing with as an individual, but also as 232 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: part of a larger group of people too. Mitch, thank you, 233 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: Thank you, Andrew, good on you. Mitch Wallace, psychology thought 234 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: leader who is in Bondi and as you heard, he 235 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: was not too far from the scene of the the 236 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: terrible terrorist attack that happened on Sunday evening.