Speaker 1: Can I everyone welcome to conversations now. Look, I played
Speaker 1: against my next guest and I was given a bath.
Speaker 1: She ran rings around me, and yes, I said, she
Speaker 1: mind you. I was fifty five and she was fifteen.
Speaker 2: It's only a few years ago, wasn't it.
Speaker 1: I was a few bother, isn't it?
Speaker 2: It was good fun.
Speaker 1: Aaron Phillips is my guest. Of course you recognized the voice,
Speaker 1: don't you. She's written a new book or a book,
Speaker 1: not a new one, a book called Inside and Out.
Speaker 1: Aaron Phillips spong to the.
Speaker 2: Program, Thank you so much for having me. Graham, do you.
Speaker 1: Remember playing against in that celebrity game?
Speaker 2: But that laid over absolutely. I was allowed to play
Speaker 2: footy as a young kid after thirteen, so when I
Speaker 2: got the call up to the slowdowns, that was a
Speaker 2: highlight of my year to be able to play in
Speaker 2: Port Adelaide. Colors try to tackle you, I think I
Speaker 2: think you did. I was trying to really.
Speaker 1: Are athlete mentality.
Speaker 2: It was great. But what a fantastic event that was
Speaker 2: The money we raised awesome?
Speaker 1: I did. I had to. I had to get to
Speaker 1: the last line in your book to understand the title
Speaker 1: Inside and Out? Can you explain it for us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So when I wanted to write a book, or
Speaker 2: actually when I first got an approach to write a book,
Speaker 2: I think my general reply was is my life that interesting?
Speaker 2: I mean, it's you know, I didn't ever think I
Speaker 2: would ever write a book. And then I sat down
Speaker 2: and considered it, and I thought, well, if I'm going
Speaker 2: to write a book, you have to be really honest.
Speaker 2: You've got to be open, and you've got to tell
Speaker 2: all the story from the inside and out. And so
Speaker 2: that's a big part of whether where the story, where
Speaker 2: the title comes from, and obviously out being you know,
Speaker 2: being out and proud being who I am, being brave
Speaker 2: to be who I am. So that's kind of where
Speaker 2: the title came from.
Speaker 1: As I said, it took me to the last line
Speaker 1: to sort that out. When you say you didn't think
Speaker 1: you're worthy of writing a book, I just read some
Speaker 1: of the career highlights. Three times AFL w Premiership player,
Speaker 1: two times AFL Premiership Co captain, twice Adelaide Club Champion,
Speaker 1: Adelaide Co Captain, Adelaide leading goalkicker, and then you went
Speaker 1: to Port Adelaide. I could never forgive you, I know,
Speaker 1: three times all Australian twice AFL League Best in Fairest,
Speaker 1: twice AFL Players Most Valuable Player, two times afl W
Speaker 1: Grand Final Best on Ground, AFL Coaches Association afl W Champion,
Speaker 1: Player of the Year, Goal of the Year win the
Speaker 1: system was it?
Speaker 2: Definitely? Yes, it was a big breeze from eighty out.
Speaker 1: That was just a career. But in your basketball career,
Speaker 1: which happened before footy, twice WNBA Championship player, that's in America,
Speaker 1: the Big League, three times WNBO All Star, five twice
Speaker 1: WNBO Leader and assists, then all these other things. You
Speaker 1: went to euro leagues, You've got accolades there. You played
Speaker 1: as if you won championships with American teams. Then Commonwealth
Speaker 1: Games gold medalist, World Champion, gold medal in Brazil, silver
Speaker 1: medal in the Beijing Olympics and twenty fourteen Turkey Fever
Speaker 1: World Championship, bronze medal, Australian vice captain, co captain, and
Speaker 1: you were at the Rio Dijonnaire Olympic Games. Now that
Speaker 1: all rattled off, so people need to go and look
Speaker 1: at it a bit more studiously than that. Can you
Speaker 1: say you're not worthy of a book?
Speaker 2: I suppose when you're in your life, you're in your
Speaker 2: own shoes, you don't one of the worst, not the worst,
Speaker 2: I'd say, one of the biggest downfalls maybe that I had.
Speaker 2: But it was also a good asset. As a part
Speaker 2: of my personality is I never really along my journey
Speaker 2: stopped and reflected too much and what I've just done.
Speaker 2: I was very ambitious to go on to the next thing.
Speaker 2: I rarely gave myself too much praise. I was always
Speaker 2: ready to do, Okay, what's next. So when I sat
Speaker 2: down and started writing this book, I actually had I
Speaker 2: actually come to realize, Wow, I've actually done quite a
Speaker 2: bit of stuff, and even apart from the sporting element
Speaker 2: of my life, and that's been a huge part of
Speaker 2: who I am and what I've done. I think the
Speaker 2: most important thing about that book is there's so many
Speaker 2: other layers to my life and I wanted people to
Speaker 2: know that, Yes, my life and my career and two
Speaker 2: sports has been incredible, had an amazing upbringing with two
Speaker 2: wonderful parents and two wonderful sisters. But there's been times
Speaker 2: in my life it's been bloody hard and difficult, and
Speaker 2: I want people to read a story of mindset and
Speaker 2: feel that there's no one that's immune to hard times
Speaker 2: and adversity and challenges, and so one of the most
Speaker 2: proudest part of the book is to open up and
Speaker 2: share those experiences.
Speaker 1: We'll come to that. I mean, you do then the
Speaker 1: hard times of the injury, aren't they when you cop injuries?
Speaker 1: And maybe the odd time, maybe that you didn't have
Speaker 1: a good year, And then obviously your relationships, which sound
Speaker 1: complicated but we're simplified. I love the fact your dad
Speaker 1: wrote the forward because everybody loves your dad. Did you
Speaker 1: find that everybody loves Greeks?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? And what's not to love about dad? Big Kutchie
Speaker 2: as they call him. He's obviously a huge part of
Speaker 2: my story, a huge part of why I grew up
Speaker 2: to be an athlete in the end, because I wanted
Speaker 2: to be like him, wanted to play footy. Wasn't able
Speaker 2: to do that after the age of thirteen, took on
Speaker 2: a new career. But Dad and my mum for that matter,
Speaker 2: have always been there for the journey. So to get
Speaker 2: Dad to put the forward in its really special. I
Speaker 2: think it wouldn't have made sense without him.
Speaker 1: She fought over toys with her two sisters, But as
Speaker 1: she got older, the battles were all about she was
Speaker 1: a good winner and a terrible loser. There's a true
Speaker 1: you moment. I used to say. The sisters looked little win, Yes,
Speaker 1: just to keep some peace, little win.
Speaker 2: Yes, yep, that is true, just to save the night
Speaker 2: from being a complete disaster. Because I mean, I was
Speaker 2: so competitive. I just love to compete. I love to win.
Speaker 2: And He's true, I was a terrible, terrible loser. I
Speaker 2: just I would stay up there as long as I
Speaker 2: could to get the game back on my terms. But
Speaker 2: I think looking back, it was even though I was
Speaker 2: probably a hard kid and a difficult kid sometimes because
Speaker 2: I was so competitive and so, I don't know, pickheaded
Speaker 2: or strong willed, whatever you want to call it, that
Speaker 2: was also one of my superpowers going forward in my life.
Speaker 2: So I'm glad though even though we're there at times
Speaker 2: my sisters did let me win. I really really appreciated
Speaker 2: the times they didn't let me win, because that just
Speaker 2: made me even more hungry and even more competitive.
Speaker 1: Any champions that are good losers do you think about them?
Speaker 1: Is it a trait of a champion that they have
Speaker 1: to be a poor loser?
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, probably, I can't think of too
Speaker 2: many champions of sport that have liked losing. I think
Speaker 2: I come to understand what you can learn through losing,
Speaker 2: rather than it just being a complete disaster.
Speaker 1: Well, you do learn a lot more from your disappointments
Speaker 1: in your triumphs. I think I love the story about
Speaker 1: Dad came home and your only night and you've pinched
Speaker 1: his motorbike.
Speaker 2: In fairness, it was a smaller motorbike, probably more suited
Speaker 2: for me than Dad. But yeah, I was a very
Speaker 2: active kid. I loved being outside. I was climbing trees,
Speaker 2: stealing motorbikes, riding them up and down the street. I
Speaker 2: was a kid who was scraping their knees every night
Speaker 2: doing something. And I had a big imagination and yep,
Speaker 2: one of the motorbikes. I had. The neighbor across the road, Bob,
Speaker 2: who was actually one of the trainers at Port Adelaide,
Speaker 2: lived across the road at the Magpies, and he made
Speaker 2: me a jump so I could jump up this ramp
Speaker 2: fly over things. I don't know how many times I
Speaker 2: come off this thing and managed to avoid breaking a bone,
Speaker 2: which was in itself a huge feat but yeah, I
Speaker 2: just loved, loved being an outside kid.
Speaker 1: I still don't know how she got it started, he said.
Speaker 1: It's what Greg says, how her little body could even
Speaker 1: kick the motor over io.
Speaker 2: I found a way. I figured out what a spark
Speaker 2: plug was. I knew if I changed that, I'd be
Speaker 2: a good chance of getting it started. So yeah, I
Speaker 2: figured it out.
Speaker 1: Was footy. I mean basketball. You're very good tennis player,
Speaker 1: as dad writes, But was footy number one when you
Speaker 1: were a little kid? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I loved footy? Well?
Speaker 1: Were your heroes?
Speaker 2: All the magpiles he had, Scott Hodges, Tim Jennifer five,
Speaker 2: do a great here, Adrian Setri.
Speaker 1: Do not mention that name.
Speaker 2: I thought that much. Struck an Her.
Speaker 1: Nineteen ninety Grand Final. Scott Hodges goes down, Adrian Setri
Speaker 1: comes off the bench, never kicked a goal in his life,
Speaker 1: kicked three goals on Scott Suli three.
Speaker 2: That mullet number ninety is flying around.
Speaker 1: How good was he?
Speaker 2: Struck her?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I played a lot of sports growing up. I did
Speaker 2: little athletics, loved competing. I put my hand up for
Speaker 2: all the school sports because it could get me out
Speaker 2: of class at different times, i'd swimming, you name it.
Speaker 2: So I just I just love sport.
Speaker 1: Aaron Phillips is my guest, folks. Her book is called
Speaker 1: Inside and Out. We'll talk a bit more about that,
Speaker 1: but more about her career and her life when we
Speaker 1: get back back shortly. Welcome back, everybody. Aaron Phillips is
Speaker 1: in the studio here to talk about her book Inside
Speaker 1: and Out. I guess we talked about the early days,
Speaker 1: how competitive she was and how she loved footy. You're
Speaker 1: able to play footy until you were thirteen. Is it's true?
Speaker 1: You won the best and first in your last year smoke? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I lot.
Speaker 2: My name's up on the board at Smash West Lakes,
Speaker 2: which is now the team or the club I still
Speaker 2: coach my daughter's under ten's team at. So it's special.
Speaker 2: It's special to be able to give back to a
Speaker 2: club that when I was growing up, when I was young,
Speaker 2: I was the only girl that they made me feel
Speaker 2: so welcome, so part of the Smash family. And it
Speaker 2: was the West Lakes Lakers back then when I played.
Speaker 2: But I just love being back there. There's so many
Speaker 2: great memories of running around there. But yeah, unfortunate at
Speaker 2: the age of thirteen. That was the last time that
Speaker 2: I could do that.
Speaker 1: Did you get much fleck from opposition players and a
Speaker 1: family who used to be standing on the sidelines and
Speaker 1: watch because you're a girl playing in a boys.
Speaker 2: Team, Yeah I did. I There were not every game,
Speaker 2: but there were some games certainly that I mostly came
Speaker 2: from opposition parents that would have something to say about
Speaker 2: a girl playing against their sons and you know, don't
Speaker 2: get beaten by a girl or get her or you know,
Speaker 2: you could just tell there was a different tone of
Speaker 2: when I was out there, and ninety nine percent of
Speaker 2: the time it really didn't affect me. I write in
Speaker 2: my book that one time I had an opposition runner
Speaker 2: have a bit of a go at me, and it
Speaker 2: was the first time I let something on the football field,
Speaker 2: a place where I was just having so much fun.
Speaker 2: I was just who I was. First time that someone
Speaker 2: really got to me, and I teared up. My coach
Speaker 2: and players rallied around me. But then I got home
Speaker 2: from that game, I threw my bag down. I just
Speaker 2: hated the fact that I let someone get to me
Speaker 2: on the field because it was a Usually I don't
Speaker 2: let it get to me, but yeah, it was. It
Speaker 2: was ninety nine percent of the time I was. I
Speaker 2: was fine. That one percent that got me. I was
Speaker 2: dirty and I never ever let anything get to me
Speaker 2: like that again. And actually, funny enough, it was only
Speaker 2: last year that I saw this runner in Foodland. Really yeah,
Speaker 2: first time I've ever made eye contact with him, and
Speaker 2: he was so uncomfortable, and I knew at that moment
Speaker 2: he knew that. I still remember that moment on the field,
Speaker 2: and I knew that he knew what he said.
Speaker 1: And how did you recognize him?
Speaker 2: I would never forget him.
Speaker 1: Do you know his name?
Speaker 2: I think so, but I know his face. I will
Speaker 2: never forget. But I just wanted to say to him,
Speaker 2: did it make you feel good?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Is that something that you wish you could that moment
Speaker 2: take back in time and go do I feel good
Speaker 2: about saying that? Should I have said it?
Speaker 1: Do?
Speaker 2: I wish I did, But I just knew from how
Speaker 2: uncomfortable he was that Hopefully the answer is I wish
Speaker 2: I never said it.
Speaker 1: I love the story. You delve into your family's background
Speaker 1: a little bit. Your mum's parents come from England.
Speaker 2: Yep, mom came over with her. She got was six
Speaker 2: siblings in her family at the time they came over,
Speaker 2: I believe it was four of them. Mum was seven
Speaker 2: years old and lived out on I think it was
Speaker 2: Grand Junction Road. There were some tin sheds that they
Speaker 2: put out there for people that that came over lived
Speaker 2: there hostels. Yes, And then very quickly through my book,
Speaker 2: through my Annie Val who was a big Port Adelaide person,
Speaker 2: that's became port Adelaide became a really quickly we became
Speaker 2: just a part of the port Adelaide family, my mum's
Speaker 2: side of the family.
Speaker 1: Why hell, because they're English? They how do they well?
Speaker 1: I guess it was the Finns me my migrant hospital hostel.
Speaker 1: Was it Grand Junction.
Speaker 2: Right would have been? Yeah, yep, but there.
Speaker 1: Was grace food.
Speaker 2: You and you just love port Adelaide. Your grandfather, my grandfather,
Speaker 2: he loved his soccer, so he was not interested in
Speaker 2: a sport like football. But my grandma, Grandma Joan, she
Speaker 2: loved footy is obviously my dad Pauline dad's mum loved
Speaker 2: footy and but my mum's mum, which is just a
Speaker 2: great story. They would sleep outside of the old footy
Speaker 2: park Grand Final Eve. You know when you go to McDonald's,
Speaker 2: the morning of when before the gates open, have their breakfast,
Speaker 2: get back in line, and then it was a race
Speaker 2: straight down to the front of the where the Port
Speaker 2: Adelaide Magpies would run out save those first two rows
Speaker 2: of seats. Then get out there knitting, get out there
Speaker 2: Bickie's and tea and make a day of it. And
Speaker 2: it was Yeah, it was wonderful. And then myself, obviously
Speaker 2: my two older sisters Mum, we would come a bit
Speaker 2: later with getting ready for the Great Grand Finals and
Speaker 2: a lot of them you were, you were in not
Speaker 2: too many smiling at the end of it.
Speaker 1: But uh, the finals, yeah, I prefer then you're.
Speaker 2: Not going to hang your hat on pre Limb finals
Speaker 2: Cola Adelaide. But they were just it were great. You
Speaker 2: remember those just footy park days. It was just it
Speaker 2: was there was no occupational health and safety. There was
Speaker 2: people jam packed in like sardines. But it was just
Speaker 2: so so good. It was just the best times.
Speaker 1: And Greg's mom and dad came from Minnapa on the
Speaker 1: on their peninsula. Yep. But your grandfather still still ye d.
Speaker 2: Yep, still still in Minnapa and.
Speaker 1: They moved to Adelaide at one station.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so when when Dad was started, he came across
Speaker 2: I think you said about a sixteen year old, started
Speaker 2: playing with Port Adelaide and he went from basically woodener
Speaker 2: To to Port Lincoln, went to school there and then
Speaker 2: went to Adelaide and then my nana Pauline went to
Speaker 2: Adelaide with him, and then Pop moved over and had
Speaker 2: some really difficult times at the farm, had a lot
Speaker 2: of drought ears and it was getting really hard to
Speaker 2: keep it, so they sold the farm, moved to Adelaide.
Speaker 2: Will eventually moved to Adelaide in Semaphore and followed dad's
Speaker 2: career and obviously, yeah, it was a pretty good one.
Speaker 2: But Pop Pop always missed the farm. That's why he's
Speaker 2: there back there now. When Nan passed away, it was
Speaker 2: a big part of him that wanted to go back
Speaker 2: because that's that's what he is. He's a farm guy.
Speaker 2: He's a country boy.
Speaker 1: I always imagine your dad to be a quiet, shy
Speaker 1: country boy. And how on earth did he clack up
Speaker 1: the courage to ask your mom out on a date?
Speaker 1: Can you tell us that story? Yeah?
Speaker 2: So there's My mum was working as a she was
Speaker 2: working for a lawyer's firm and dad came in this
Speaker 2: it depends who you ask, but this is this is
Speaker 2: the story I'm going with that I've gone in with
Speaker 2: my book. My dad had to come in and I'm
Speaker 2: not sure if he was in trouble for something or
Speaker 2: if he was just signing some legal documents for something
Speaker 2: for the pub. Anyway, he got he met mum who
Speaker 2: was working there, and somehow eventually my mum said, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'll go out with you. But this was a few
Speaker 2: attempts from dat. It wasn't straight away, but my mum's
Speaker 2: sisters got wind of who was asking her out because
Speaker 2: they're made Port mum couldn't care about Port Adelaide, and
Speaker 2: then I think there was probably maybe a bit of
Speaker 2: peer pressure from her sisters to go You're going to
Speaker 2: go out with Greg Phillips, Like, go out with Greg Phillips.
Speaker 2: So she did and the rest is history.
Speaker 1: It's intriguing. At the start of your book, you posit yourself,
Speaker 1: had you been born and bought your name was Lachlan Phillips,
Speaker 1: how much different you would have been perceived on that
Speaker 1: sporting journey. What were you trying to achieve by that?
Speaker 2: So the chapter is if she was he? And it
Speaker 2: just puts my career, my life in perspective of, Okay, well,
Speaker 2: if I was a boy, where would my life have
Speaker 2: Where would my life be now? Where it would have
Speaker 2: ended up? I would have continued of playing footy, I
Speaker 2: would have wouldn't have had to have gone and played basketball.
Speaker 2: Even if I was a boy playing basketball, if I
Speaker 2: had won two NBA titles, how much money that would
Speaker 2: have made me? And I'm not by any means saying
Speaker 2: how I just I wish I was a boy. This
Speaker 2: is so unfair because every part of my life and
Speaker 2: my journey I'm grateful for and it's I am who
Speaker 2: I am because of the experiences and the journey that
Speaker 2: I've been on. But when you do put it into
Speaker 2: perspective of if I was a boy, I would have
Speaker 2: been certainly paid a lot different, My pathway would have
Speaker 2: been pretty pretty clear, would have kept playing football beyond
Speaker 2: the age of thirteen, and so just more.
Speaker 1: Two brownne metals, MVP YEAP, three Premierships.
Speaker 2: Yep, and all the things that come with being a
Speaker 2: male and being getting those accolades compared to being female
Speaker 2: and getting those accolades. Whilst again I don't ever want
Speaker 2: to undersell it, or appreciate what I've what I've got
Speaker 2: and what I've done. It is a huge difference.
Speaker 1: There might have been different though your footy would have
Speaker 1: been the dominant sport would have maybe they wouldn't have
Speaker 1: been basketball.
Speaker 2: Oh I know, if if I had football to continue
Speaker 2: on as a pathway, I would have absolutely have followed.
Speaker 1: Football knee injury. May not have the knee injuries. You
Speaker 1: can't say it was an interesting way of positing it,
Speaker 1: but I thought, oh, yeah, well true, but it's a
Speaker 1: sliding door. You you just.
Speaker 2: Don't know it is. Yep, it is definitely.
Speaker 1: Aaron Phillips is my guest. Much more to come. Welcome
Speaker 1: back everybody. If you just tuned in, we're chatting with
Speaker 1: Aaron Phillips and it's just as much fun when the
Speaker 1: microphones turned off, it's turned on because we can reminisce,
Speaker 1: mainly about a dad I guess tried to get investiately
Speaker 1: to play for the Crozy trained with us, laid off magpies,
Speaker 1: off any more money to stay in the sand for.
Speaker 2: He told me a story that you made him do
Speaker 2: this crazy bike ride to the snake pits and had
Speaker 2: to do so many laps and you'd come off your
Speaker 2: bike and then Dad rode by you. I saw you
Speaker 2: on the side of the road. Did a you turn
Speaker 2: to check on the other instead rode over your bike,
Speaker 2: over your tires. You told you to get up.
Speaker 1: He told you that, which I don't. I think you
Speaker 1: might have exaggerated that.
Speaker 2: That's unlike my dad to an exaggerated story.
Speaker 1: Your basketball career is amazing. How did it start, how
Speaker 1: did it develop? And when did you know you were
Speaker 1: a chance to play for Australia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I so I was introduced to Rachel Spawn at
Speaker 2: the age of thirteen when I was finishing up my
Speaker 2: footy career and she became just another idol. So I
Speaker 2: knew no longer I could be a football player and
Speaker 2: had to find a new new sport. And so I
Speaker 2: was so appreciative of Rachel's just five minutes of her
Speaker 2: time just talking to me as a young kid, and
Speaker 2: I thought, wouldn't it be amazing if I ever got
Speaker 2: the opportunity to play with her? And fast forward down
Speaker 2: the track. A couple of years later, I was in
Speaker 2: the Lightning squad training with Rachel. Playing with Rachel just
Speaker 2: one of those incredible moments. And then at the age
Speaker 2: of nineteen, got my first call up to play for
Speaker 2: the Opals. The same year I was sorry. At the
Speaker 2: same year, I was also drafted to the Connecticut son
Speaker 2: in the DUBNBA. So it was a big year for me.
Speaker 2: But it wasn't smooth. I mean my first few games
Speaker 2: as a basketball as a junior, I was fouling out
Speaker 2: because I was this little football kid trying to play
Speaker 2: basketball and wasn't used to the contact and all the
Speaker 2: lack of contact, I should say, and kind of had
Speaker 2: to finesse my skill out. Some great people around me
Speaker 2: at West adelaide to harness my skills and just to
Speaker 2: bring it back a little bit but still be athletic
Speaker 2: and still be aggressive. So yeah, that's my basketball journey.
Speaker 2: Probably I didn't really take too much notice of what
Speaker 2: else could there be outside of the lightning, probably until
Speaker 2: about eighteen when had some WNBA scouts come over and
Speaker 2: have a look at some games, and then when I
Speaker 2: was drafted. That was when it was a real big
Speaker 2: moment of Wow, I actually can be a professional basketball player.
Speaker 1: Did you know where Connecticut was? No?
Speaker 2: I actually it was like three o'clock in the morning
Speaker 2: or some ridiculous hour. I was on dial up internet
Speaker 2: listening to the draft. I thought I might have been
Speaker 2: a chance to get drafted, but not. You never know.
Speaker 2: And then my coach from Connecticut called me because I
Speaker 2: was on like eleven minute delay with my computer, told
Speaker 2: me I was drafted at pick twenty one. I was
Speaker 2: so excited. And then in the middle of the night
Speaker 2: called I was at my sister's house, called up mom
Speaker 2: and Dad said, I've got drafted. I got drafted to Connecticut.
Speaker 1: And then I.
Speaker 2: Realized where is Connecticut? And so I went to what
Speaker 2: they I told my young teammates. I went to what
Speaker 2: is a paper form of Google Maps, It's called an atlas,
Speaker 2: and I had to look up where exactly where Connecticut was.
Speaker 2: I knew it was somewhere in the east, but I
Speaker 2: didn't actually know where I was going.
Speaker 1: So when did you get there? And what was it like?
Speaker 2: I was picked up in a hummer with a big
Speaker 2: Connecticut Sun logo on it. It was eleven pm at night.
Speaker 2: I'd landed in Connecticut and it was such a massive
Speaker 2: journey to get there. I was, you know, jet lagged, exhausted,
Speaker 2: and they drove me through a Dunkin Donuts to get
Speaker 2: a coffee and a donut, which at eleven point thirty
Speaker 2: pm at night was probably not the one thing that
Speaker 2: I felt like at the time, but I was really
Speaker 2: appreciative to be there Connecticut. I just it was driving
Speaker 2: in the night. It was a lot of trees. I
Speaker 2: just thought, gosh, this place has a lot of trees.
Speaker 2: Knew that we were playing out of a casino, so
Speaker 2: we were owned by the Mahigan Sun tribe. We played
Speaker 2: out of the Mahigan Sun casino. So I'm driving with
Speaker 2: Bill who picked me up, who's one of the team managers,
Speaker 2: picked me up, drove to the casino. That's where I
Speaker 2: had to stay in training camp until my accommodation was ready.
Speaker 2: Once you make the roster, and just saw out of
Speaker 2: the blue, out of all these trees, this humongous building
Speaker 2: out of nowhere as a casino, and that's where I
Speaker 2: was about to live for the next two weeks.
Speaker 1: Well, you you still had an Australia basketball career, didn't you.
Speaker 1: But eventually you commit, you moved to you played with
Speaker 1: so many different teams.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So how the basketball circuit works is you're in
Speaker 2: the WNBA from May through till September and then you
Speaker 2: go off and play in a European team from September
Speaker 2: October right back through till May, so you don't get
Speaker 2: a lot of time to come back to Australia. You
Speaker 2: don't get much time to be in Australia if you do,
Speaker 2: so you're on this circuit and you have to stay
Speaker 2: in it because if you kind of pull yourself out
Speaker 2: of it, you can your money can can go backwards,
Speaker 2: your opportunities can be taken away. You kind of want
Speaker 2: to just stay involved and in the rhythm of it.
Speaker 2: So there was a lot of years away from home.
Speaker 1: You played at Connecticut, you played in Israel, you played
Speaker 1: in Poland, you played for two teams in Poland, you
Speaker 1: played in Slovakia, and then five teams in America. But
Speaker 1: I guess the big the big moment come when you
Speaker 1: were with Indiana or Phoenix. Is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Indiana and Phoenix are the two teams in the
Speaker 2: WNBA when we won the championships, two completely different teams.
Speaker 2: And if you know the name Caitlin Clark, you know
Speaker 2: she plays now for the Indiana Fever, which was my team,
Speaker 2: and in twenty twelve we were the underdogs. It was
Speaker 2: it was just one of those stories where we had
Speaker 2: no business to win. We just we kept facing elimination
Speaker 2: in every round. We got through. We got through, and
Speaker 2: then come up against in the finals Minnesota. Minnesota had
Speaker 2: five Team USA starters on their team and we beat
Speaker 2: them three to one. It was just an unbelievable story
Speaker 2: of just incredible you know, team chemistry, connection, resilience, playing
Speaker 2: against arguably the best team that ever played.
Speaker 1: So do do you get the accolades like it? If
Speaker 1: it was like the men's like a Michael Jordan, you
Speaker 1: know they win their championships. Did do you get the
Speaker 1: accolades that you're worthy of?
Speaker 2: I mean, you get your championship ring, you get the
Speaker 2: you get the jewelry, you get the parade, you know,
Speaker 2: all the all the things in the city. You definitely,
Speaker 2: And definitely in Indiana, which was a big basketball town,
Speaker 2: they just they were people are just mad basketball, even
Speaker 2: crazy now with Caitlyn Clark there. But you see how
Speaker 2: much it means to people, and you don't realize until
Speaker 2: you win or you lose big games that people just
Speaker 2: support you and just love being a part of your
Speaker 2: team's journey. And same with Phoenix. I mean we played
Speaker 2: I played with Diana Trozzi. He's probably the greatest basketballer ever.
Speaker 2: Five time Olympian might have been six now, but she's
Speaker 2: just you know, to win a championship with her, Britney Griner,
Speaker 2: who played Penny Taylor and the team at this at
Speaker 2: the time, my mind's still blown because I look back
Speaker 2: and go, these are the best players ever to play
Speaker 2: and won a championship with them, and think we're connected
Speaker 2: for life, Like it's unbelievable.
Speaker 1: Do you establish those connections? Do they have reunions?
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm glad you asked. Last year, I got flown
Speaker 2: They put me in a business class seat all the
Speaker 2: way to Phoenix, like talk about being treated like a star.
Speaker 2: That was amazing because usually I'm in like eighty seven
Speaker 2: j with four kids on the way back to America,
Speaker 2: And this time I got a business class ticket and
Speaker 2: flew over there for four nights and we were just celebrated.
Speaker 2: It was just it was like we'd never left each other.
Speaker 1: It sounded like it didn't end on a happy night.
Speaker 2: Though.
Speaker 1: You said your time at Los Angeles Sparks wasn't the
Speaker 1: happiest time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was a really tough tough year.
Speaker 2: We were we were predicted to do great things. That team.
Speaker 2: We had a whole bunch of injuries to star players
Speaker 2: we were. It was a really hard city to play
Speaker 2: in because you know, you live We lived in Marina
Speaker 2: del Rey, playing out of Staples Center, and you don't
Speaker 2: know what traffic's like in La. So you're better off
Speaker 2: getting to a game four hours before the game rather
Speaker 2: than being right there on time just for tip off,
Speaker 2: because you never know. And it was, Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: It was a tough year. I was, honestly, and I
Speaker 2: was really at a point where I would love to
Speaker 2: be around family members. Dallas had just got a team
Speaker 2: moved from Tulsa to Dallas, which is where my wife,
Speaker 2: Tracy's family's from. And when the potential to get a
Speaker 2: trade was there, I took it because it was It
Speaker 2: was a really, really tough.
Speaker 1: Time and Dallas was your last team. Yeah, you mentioned Tracy.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about Tracy. Will introduce her to them to
Speaker 1: the narrative when we come back after the rate. Just
Speaker 1: before you go, you're right that you've got tattooed Elton
Speaker 1: John's Tiny Dance lyrics on your body somewhere. Ye, Why so.
Speaker 2: It's the music notes hold me closer to Tiny Dancer
Speaker 2: that's the song that Mum and I. That's our song,
Speaker 2: and music is a big part of my life and
Speaker 2: love music. My mom's a big music head Bowie Fan Elton,
Speaker 2: all those Eagles, Elvis, so we're connected through music, Mum
Speaker 2: and I, and so I wanted to the whole song.
Speaker 1: I'll just do a couple of lines, just.
Speaker 2: Hold me closer to tiny dancer in a musical piece,
Speaker 2: so all the notes, no, not actually the words, and
Speaker 2: if anyone's music right there and wants to have a look,
Speaker 2: and if it's wrong, all bad lucks. Too late now.
Speaker 2: But it was just something that I wanted to to
Speaker 2: have because I love the song.
Speaker 1: It.
Speaker 2: You know, songs just make you feel good, make you
Speaker 2: feel like you're at home, make you feel connected. That's
Speaker 2: one that mum and I share.
Speaker 1: Well, particularly when it's your song and your mum's song
Speaker 1: that'll stay with you forever.
Speaker 2: She was meant to get it but never did, so
Speaker 2: that's the other part of the bargain. She's still got
Speaker 2: to live up to. I don't think I'm any charts.
Speaker 1: Aaron Phillips is my guest folks Actionately, Aaron Phillips is
Speaker 1: in the studio with me it's a great chat, to
Speaker 1: be quite honest, and it's really interesting to connect when
Speaker 1: the microphones are off as well. There was a line
Speaker 1: that I highlighted in your book, I believe in aliens
Speaker 1: and ghosts. I do you believe in aliens and ghosts?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Why not?
Speaker 1: UFOs and aliens? Yep?
Speaker 2: I have to. I have to believe.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: One of the things I love to do at night
Speaker 2: when I'm taking the dogs out for a week is
Speaker 2: I like looking up at the stars, and I just
Speaker 2: got to believe that there's things, something else out there.
Speaker 2: I usually see the lights go back and forth, but
Speaker 2: I just it would be too narrow minded to think
Speaker 2: that they were the only ones out there. And then spiritually,
Speaker 2: I just feel there's a connection. There's many times that
Speaker 2: I've I've felt when I've fed my kids and I've
Speaker 2: been you know, Miller and I feeding them with a bottle.
Speaker 2: I can I just feel like a presence there of
Speaker 2: one of my grandparents, usually my Grandma Joan or Grandma Pauline,
Speaker 2: just somewhere and they just pop into my head. And
Speaker 2: it's not like I don't want to sound crazy, but
Speaker 2: it's it's just like I haven't been thinking about them.
Speaker 2: Three o'clock in the morning, I'm feeding a kid who
Speaker 2: won't go to sleep, and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: I feel this calming presence, it's going to be okay,
Speaker 2: and then they come into my mind. So I've had many.
Speaker 2: There was a story when my grandma Joan, who she
Speaker 2: passed away from ovarian cancer, and she was in hospital.
Speaker 2: Mom and day got a call to say, come up
Speaker 2: to the hospital as quickly as you can. She's not
Speaker 2: doing well. They're driving up Port Road and my dad,
Speaker 2: who doesn't believe in aliens pole opposite doesn't believe in ghosts.
Speaker 2: I said to my mum, what's that smell? You know?
Speaker 2: It smells like someone has literally dropped a whole bottle
Speaker 2: of eucalyptus in the car and could not find it.
Speaker 2: She used to put on my Nana Joan would put
Speaker 2: it on a hanky because she did not like the
Speaker 2: smell of hospitals. And then it went away like there is.
Speaker 2: And my dad, who like I said, does not believe
Speaker 2: in anything, cannot explain this to me. Whereas my mum
Speaker 2: has smelled eucalyptus on various occasions. But to have my
Speaker 2: dad in the car at this point when my mum
Speaker 2: was with him, and it was pretty much at the
Speaker 2: moment my nana did pass away. It's just one of
Speaker 2: those things where they just has to be.
Speaker 1: You've mentioned Tracy, your wife in the earliest segments there,
Speaker 1: but you're so open about it in how you meet
Speaker 1: and the journey that you had that you sounded like
Speaker 1: I was love at first sight for you, not so
Speaker 1: much for her.
Speaker 2: Well, I hope it wasn't too far after that she
Speaker 2: liked me. I know it was. It was a very much.
Speaker 2: I was Tracy's first ever female love.
Speaker 1: And who was she then?
Speaker 2: So this was back in she would have been around
Speaker 2: twenty six, twenty.
Speaker 1: Seven, So she don't ever have boyfriend?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, and probably only She had been with a
Speaker 2: guy before me for about seven years that didn't end well,
Speaker 2: and then met me not too much longer after that,
Speaker 2: and we really just reconnected so well. She was my
Speaker 2: best friend. We spent a lot of time together and
Speaker 2: ended up falling in love with each other. And for her,
Speaker 2: if you had a bastard prior to that, whether she
Speaker 2: would have ever married a woman, she would have absolutely not.
Speaker 2: You know, that's not interest so but we just were
Speaker 2: so connected to each other. You know, we've been married
Speaker 2: eleven years now, we have four kids together, and I
Speaker 2: honestly really do believe that I married my soulmate. That's
Speaker 2: what I write in the book. And some people you
Speaker 2: meet and some people you just if you're lucky enough.
Speaker 2: I always tell my kids, if you ever get the
Speaker 2: opportunity marry your best friend.
Speaker 1: It didn't happen overnight. I mean, you're on again, off again,
Speaker 1: so there must have been a special bond there to
Speaker 1: help you maintain that connection.
Speaker 2: We were really we were really battling with a lot
Speaker 2: of we I was living playing overseas. She's from America,
Speaker 2: She's from Dallas, would spend half the year apart. I'd
Speaker 2: travel to European clubs. So we were both professional athletes.
Speaker 2: She's a basketballer as well, so it was just really
Speaker 2: hard to navigate. And back then you don't have the
Speaker 2: FaceTime or the you know, phone calls you can just
Speaker 2: pick up cost you one hundred dollars a minute. And
Speaker 2: there were also certain challenges of how would we make this.
Speaker 2: She's American, I'm Australian. It's not legal to get married
Speaker 2: either in the United States at the time. It wasn't
Speaker 2: illegal to get married here in Australia. Do we want kids? Is?
Speaker 2: How are we ever going to have kids? So it
Speaker 2: was we had a lot of challenges.
Speaker 1: I don't want it to sound like a prurian interest,
Speaker 1: but the things that we're sort of passing through my
Speaker 1: mind as I'm reading this, And how did she introduce
Speaker 1: you to her parents? How did she explain to her
Speaker 1: parents when you know, they'd only know her to have boyfriends?
Speaker 1: And was that awkward or complicated?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. We had a lot of challenges with
Speaker 2: Tracy's Tracy's mum thought it was a phase for Tracy
Speaker 2: because she only known Tracy to have, you know, male boyfriends,
Speaker 2: and so I think in the end, well, people were
Speaker 2: just concerned and it was more so, how is this
Speaker 2: actually going to work? Because there's a lot of people
Speaker 2: when they look at same sex couples, they think, well,
Speaker 2: they won't be able to get married, they won't be
Speaker 2: able to have kids together. What's what? You know? Almost
Speaker 2: what's the point? But we could also still have those things.
Speaker 2: We weren't so scary. I suppose, I don't know, like
Speaker 2: it's well.
Speaker 1: It seems it seems natural these days. Yeah, although some
Speaker 1: people resisted, but it was pioneering stuff. You talk about
Speaker 1: you couldn't get married in America. Yeah, but finally Hawaii
Speaker 1: relates their laws. Went to Hawaii. You describe it on
Speaker 1: the beach and I could see it. You talked about
Speaker 1: a sea turtle emerging emerging from the It was from
Speaker 1: the water as you're as you're saying, you've owed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like something out of a story book.
Speaker 2: I mean, we were we were lucky. Obama was in power.
Speaker 2: He changed the laws to legalize same sex marriage in
Speaker 2: the States. We went to Hawaii. We didn't want a
Speaker 2: big wedding. We didn't want family to have to fork
Speaker 2: out a lot of money to get there, so we
Speaker 2: eloped on our own. The only people that went with
Speaker 2: was Tracy's brother and sister in law, just to be witnesses.
Speaker 2: And it was just a magical night. We were on sunset,
Speaker 2: a little bit of sprinkling rain on a warm night
Speaker 2: passed through, and then a sea turtle. Can you believe it?
Speaker 2: Out of you know, everything, which is just crazy. It
Speaker 2: was spiritual. Maybe you know, maybe.
Speaker 1: They make you go in the water, jump in the
Speaker 1: water with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we dress well, we wreck the dress, but don't
Speaker 2: worry my dress. My dress was ninety dollars online and
Speaker 2: I was that annoyed because I had to get altered
Speaker 2: because it was too big when I did get it,
Speaker 2: and it was one hundred and thirty dollars to older it,
Speaker 2: which was more than the bloody dress. So it was
Speaker 2: a fun night.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look back, we had we had a great night.
Speaker 2: I think the one of the only regrets Tracy has
Speaker 2: now and didn't know at the time because her dad,
Speaker 2: he's an ex Navy seal. He's a really quiet guy.
Speaker 2: We get along very very well. That's impressive, Yeah, very impressive.
Speaker 2: He never speaks, you know, emotionally ever about anything. And
Speaker 2: he told Tracy's mum that one of his biggest regrets,
Speaker 2: or not even regrets, but what he wishes that he
Speaker 2: could walk Tracy down the aisle. And we didn't know
Speaker 2: at the time.
Speaker 1: You've got four kids. Now put me in my place
Speaker 1: if I'm going too far here. But is it an
Speaker 1: exercise in genetic selection? I mean, you obviously choose the diner.
Speaker 1: Did you choose the donor with a view to your
Speaker 1: kids being elite at sport?
Speaker 2: That's a good question because and that's not a funny
Speaker 2: question because we actually get asked a lot about how
Speaker 2: do you choose the donor? It is such a huge
Speaker 2: process to do. There is so much information on donors.
Speaker 2: You go through all their application, you can hear them speak,
Speaker 2: you can get their medical background history. So for Tracy
Speaker 2: and I am out of and you're talking about it's
Speaker 2: like car shopping, and I say that respectfully in terms
Speaker 2: of you pick your if you want a certain high
Speaker 2: eye color, all these different things that you can filter towards.
Speaker 2: And for Tracy and I, what was important obviously was
Speaker 2: health background, all those things before we get to the
Speaker 2: you know, how tall are they? You know? Because also
Speaker 2: the we found, which was kind of weird, the taller
Speaker 2: the donor was the more expensive they are, and then
Speaker 2: more likely they're on a waiting list because they're in
Speaker 2: high demand.
Speaker 1: So do you meet them, get the chance to make that.
Speaker 2: Is the only thing you don't get to do if
Speaker 2: they have ticked in when once they sign up for
Speaker 2: the program, can you be contacted when the kids are eighteen?
Speaker 2: Either donor can tick yes, or you can as if
Speaker 2: you sign up for it, say no, we don't want
Speaker 2: any connection to them, So our donor didn't have wanted
Speaker 2: to be contacted once the kids were eighteen, and a
Speaker 2: lot of we found that a lot of these donors
Speaker 2: were young medical kids going you know, adults or so kids,
Speaker 2: but there were adults going through college, needed to pay
Speaker 2: their way through universities and this was just a way
Speaker 2: that they could support themselves. Others had just wanted to
Speaker 2: help people have a family, but didn't really want to
Speaker 2: have any connection after that. But I know by seeing,
Speaker 2: because I've seen a baby photo of the donor, I've
Speaker 2: seen an adult photo of the donor. And you're talking
Speaker 2: in America with three hundred million people, So what is
Speaker 2: the chances of walking by him and saying, oh, that's him?
Speaker 2: But I could honestly say if I did walk by him,
Speaker 2: I would recognize him. And I just have this feeling
Speaker 2: that I'm going to walk by him someday. I don't
Speaker 2: know how.
Speaker 1: To just go to He's going to be a yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you think you're recognizing Yeah.
Speaker 2: I honestly I feel like I because you don't get
Speaker 2: to keep the photos, but they're so entrenched in your
Speaker 2: brain that you can just I would know.
Speaker 1: You know, Aaron, guess what what's that? It's the end
Speaker 1: that way. We haven't that quick. You haven't even got
Speaker 1: you haven't got to the Crows yet. Can you wrap
Speaker 1: up a footy career in I mean it's such as
Speaker 1: such a still a footy career. Can you wrap You're
Speaker 1: a pioneer of the women's game. You know you had
Speaker 1: to deal with a dinosaurs like myself who just couldn't
Speaker 1: see that women should be, you know, elevated to this
Speaker 1: status of publicity. But you're there and you've you've seen
Speaker 1: it fifty three thousand people at Adelaide Oval. Can you
Speaker 1: can you wrap up briefly with the Crows and Port Adelaide.
Speaker 2: You do that, I'll give it a go.
Speaker 1: People can buy the book of course.
Speaker 2: Yes. I'm so grateful for how my football journey went
Speaker 2: and ended because I never in a million years thought
Speaker 2: I would be playing football or played football for the
Speaker 2: Adelaide Football Club, but looking back it was I'm so
Speaker 2: grateful it was the Adelaid Crows where I got to
Speaker 2: start my journey. It was wonderful. Phil Harper gave me
Speaker 2: a call wanting wanting me to come across when Port
Speaker 2: didn't get the license. Made Tracy and I feel so
Speaker 2: welcome with our young family, great man. We had just
Speaker 2: so much fun and the players, the culture, it was
Speaker 2: just incredible. Was everything that I thought footy would be.
Speaker 2: Fun wise and just joy.
Speaker 1: And then Alaide and those kids of yours. Because the
Speaker 1: photos of your kids with Crows jumpers on.
Speaker 2: I've still got Crows kids. They still go for the Crows,
Speaker 2: some of them do they yeah, And that's okay. I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't discourage that.
Speaker 1: And then you gotta put I guess you had to
Speaker 1: go to Port Adlaide's were tough years, weren't they.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were, and I knew it was going to
Speaker 2: be tough. It was. It was starting from zero again,
Speaker 2: bringing new a new team in young players. I knew
Speaker 2: that I was going to jump off the train that
Speaker 2: was going because of how old I was. I was
Speaker 2: thirty seven, which is highly not ideal to start a
Speaker 2: team at Port Adelaide with. But it was the perfect
Speaker 2: way to end my career. I was having these dreams.
Speaker 2: I wrote in the book that when I was contemplating
Speaker 2: going back to port and it was it was really
Speaker 2: a tough decision. And when you wrote that article about
Speaker 2: making a lot of Crows people mad than they should be,
Speaker 2: You're right, it was, and that played a big role
Speaker 2: in my decision of do I go, should I shouldn't.
Speaker 2: I and I'd have these dreams standing at Alberton Oval,
Speaker 2: right and I'm standing in the in front of the
Speaker 2: Foss Williams Stand and it's just empty, but I can
Speaker 2: hear the noise, I can see players. And then something
Speaker 2: grabbed my hand and it was me, at the age
Speaker 2: of whatever, I was six seven, saying we're home.
Speaker 1: So there's all the spiritual star Yeah.
Speaker 2: And from that moment I thought, if I don't again,
Speaker 2: if I don't, if I don't go, I'm gonna regret
Speaker 2: it all. So I appreciate your article when you said yes,
Speaker 2: Crows fans be mad, because they did have a right
Speaker 2: to be mad. There was an element of yes, I
Speaker 2: owed the Crows so much and I'll always be grateful.
Speaker 2: An end debt. But I hope you know, like I've
Speaker 2: sold you before, I hope you know how much I
Speaker 2: gave back and how I'll continue to give back. If
Speaker 2: my kids ever say to me I want to play
Speaker 2: for the Crows, I'll say that's bloody great.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for coming in, Aeron. It is always
Speaker 1: great to catch up. You've just got a charisma about
Speaker 1: you which is just so attractive. There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 1: The book is called Inside and Out Aaron Phillips with
Speaker 1: Samantha Lane. Obviously she helped you put it together. A
Speaker 1: HARDI grant publication. Yep, good luck with it.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Graham.
Speaker 1: Great to be here, Aaron Phillips with my guests. Folks,
Speaker 1: thanks for joining us,