WEBVTT - Follow the Money | 3 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:10.160 In Melbourne. Ross Ball, Lachelle's favorite cousin. Les Ball's nephew, 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:13.840 spends hours on the road driving trucks. 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:17.240 So where are you driving to right now? As we speak? 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:19.360 What's today's roof? 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:21.200 Uh? 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:26.440 Delivering a couple of tweet I'll contain it. 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:29.280 It's a lot of empty highways and staring at bitchamen. 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:33.199 And like many of us, he passes the time the 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:34.720 same way as you are right now. 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:39.560 I quite enjoy listening to a lot of true crime 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:44.720 as I drive around. It's quite a stimulating mental thing 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:45.040 for me. 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:51.479 But Ross is living his own true crime story the 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:55.800 disappearance of his uncle Les. Ross was really fond of 0:00:55.840 --> 0:01:00.240 his uncle. His dad Lindsay, who sadly died now too, 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:01.520 was Les's brother. 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:05.720 Les came down for a holiday for like the Christmas 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:09.280 pride in him going missing and stayed with my mum 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:11.679 and dad and I and my brother at our house 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:12.280 in Melbourne. 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:15.880 For both sides of Les's family, money is the cornerstone 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:18.800 of this case. The only reason Ross can think of 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:22.120 that Les was murdered was because David Phillips owed less 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.119 money and he didn't want to repay it. 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:27.640 Les was sick of staying in the Phillips garage and 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:30.680 wanted to buy a home of his own, but to 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:34.480 do that he needed David to cough up and repay 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:35.400 what he'd loaned them. 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:38.080 But he told my mom and dad, I don't know 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.600 how that's going to go. He wasn't very hopeful that 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:44.240 it was going to be a very pleasant conversation trying 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:45.160 to get that back from him. 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:50.040 Why would lez have been nervous about that conversation with 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:51.600 David specifically? 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:55.440 I think Les he was a lover, not a fighter. 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:58.440 I don't think you like confrontation and arguments too much, 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:05.520 and I think David was quite intimidating man ex detective 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:11.680 police officer. Obviously, I think it would have been an 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:15.080 intimidating conversation to have with David. 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:21.480 So when Les mysteriously went missing, Ross, who was fifteen 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:25.880 at the time, remembers his dad being really worried and 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:31.000 calling the Phillips household. He specifically remembers his dad speaking 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:31.680 with David. 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:34.720 One of the turning points for me of realizing that 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:37.840 Les had met foul play was my dad hung up 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:40.440 on the phone with David and said, oh, he's full 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:41.520 of it. He's full of it. 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:45.639 What did your dad mean when he said David's full 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:47.639 of it? He's full of it? What do you think 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:48.120 he meant? 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:50.600 Yeah, he just meant he didn't believe a word he said. 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:56.079 He was lying and maybe withholding information I guess is yeah, 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:58.960 he didn't believe what he was saying. He said, Ei, 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:01.720 there's something going on there. Obviously this not adding up. 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:07.320 Remember in the last episode, David Phillips lied about Les's 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:11.200 tendency to just take off and go bush. But as 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:15.639 we'll soon see, this is on brand for David because 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:20.520 for a former detective, he has a precarious relationship with 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:25.920 the truth. Speaking with Les's family, the sense you get 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:29.200 is that his final months in the Phillips household were 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:30.200 unhappy ones. 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:34.080 Apparently he was living in the garage. Even his meals 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.760 were delivered to the garage. You'd died in the garage. 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:39.120 I know, my dad had said it'd called to speak 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.000 to him and they'd have to go and get him 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:45.000 from the garage to come to the phone to speak. 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:48.280 And he even went to the toilet and the garage 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:50.680 and a bucket, like even when Les had moved out, 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:53.920 they found a bucket of you're on in the corner 0:03:53.960 --> 0:04:06.760 of the garage. 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.120 What we are about to discover is a money trail 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:17.440 with its own hidden secrets and dogged Irish detective determined 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.200 to uncover the truth about Les Ball. 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:24.080 I'm Joe Townsend and I'm Callendoness. 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:38.520 This is perfect alibi. So we're turning into the housing 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:43.400 subdivision where the Phillips lived. It's one of those classic setups. 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.760 This looks like your land to drive. Now, what number 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:51.440 are we looking for? Maybe three? Okay, So the house 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:54.200 we're looking for is on it right, Wonder if I 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.200 recognize that. I've seen lots of photos of it. Okay, 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:05.000 we're close. I reckon. We park here, let's park here. Oh, 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:06.240 there it is. I recognize it. 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:07.600 A couple of. 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:11.960 A couple of big cars in the driveway, like someone 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:22.839 might be home. Le's moved in in October, and so 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:23.520 he would. 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:28.200 Have been there all summer, sweltering hot in that garage. 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:30.760 The owner of the house has come out to chat 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:35.240 to us. Now, hello, and Joe, how are you this 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:37.640 Callum should talk. 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:42.920 To that neighbor over there. I think he's the first copreen. Yeah, okay, okay, 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:46.440 all right, thanks for that. We'll go knock next door. 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:49.280 More than thirty years ago. 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:52.440 Les was living in the garage of this modest, low 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:56.160 rise brick home, hatching a plan to escape. 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:58.360 Beautiful garden here. 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:01.799 In the town's well's been watering the plants. 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:12.359 Very well manicured line. Okay, hello, how are you. It's good. 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:16.720 We're the people from the audio documentary. My name is 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:19.839 Joe and this is Callum the case. 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.960 Oh yes, when you were was going on here, I 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.840 didn't know him very well, you know, just as a 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:30.280 own wave. He seemed like lovely gentlemen, you know, and 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:34.520 he just disappeared. That seems an awful shame, you know, 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:37.080 to subbage just disappears. You have to face the earth. 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:43.039 Visiting the last place Les was seen alive, and maybe 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:47.120 the crime scene gave us a better idea of exactly 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.240 why Les was so excited to get out of there 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:54.200 and into a place of his own. We promised to 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.080 keep the new owner at your landa drive and old 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.400 bill from over the road up to date if we 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:00.960 found out anything more. 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:05.200 By March nineteen ninety three, Les was completely over living 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:08.320 in the Phillips garage. He secretly found a place of 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:10.800 his own in card Well, but he felt guilty about 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:14.080 leaving without telling his family. The first they heard of 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:16.280 it was when he announced he'd placed an offer. 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:19.000 Right and he wanted to move out over Easter, but 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:23.200 his real estate agent and solicitor noted a major problem. 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:28.600 Les suddenly couldn't pull the final settlement money together. It 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:33.440 was incredibly strange, considering his divorce settlement had just come through. 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:37.560 This is something police looked into during that first investigation, 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:41.000 and I've gone over it too. The reason Les didn't 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:44.320 have the money was simple. He'd loaned tens of thousands 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:47.960 of dollars to David Leanne, but I'm picking the exact 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.800 amount was difficult because the story kept changing. 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:55.840 In Leanne's first police statement, she didn't mention money at all. 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.000 A week later, she admitted to a ten thousand dollars. 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:05.640 In fact, the total was closer to thirty one thousand dollars. 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:09.360 Leanne told police that Les was transferring the money to 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:11.600 her and David to help Lez out. 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.120 The version that she provided was that he was trying 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:17.640 to sort of minimize the amount of money his account 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:19.920 so it wouldn't affect his betteran affairs payments. 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.360 Leanne told police she was withdrawing the cash for Les, 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:26.640 so that he could keep the money in his account 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:30.320 to a minimum and avoid affecting his pension payments. She 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:33.240 told them she was just withdrawing the cash and handing 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:34.880 it right back to LEDs right. 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.320 Leanne also told police that some of the money was 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:42.559 alone to them, and there was nothing to disprove Leanne's account, 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:46.760 nor did it sound implausible. Maybe Lez had cash dashed 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:49.800 away under a mattress and parents lend their kids money 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:52.880 all the time. But if that was the case, where 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:57.080 was the cash and why couldn't Lez afford his settlement? 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:00.520 Well, Noel couldn't see what Les was apparently all this 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:02.800 money on. I mean, he was living in the garage 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:06.280 of his family home. People described him as thrifty, some 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:08.120 even said he was tight with money. 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:10.920 Every couple of days there'd be about one hundred and 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:13.319 so two hundred taken out of his account, which with 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:17.040 normal living expenses I've posed fuel, maybe helping him with 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:19.680 golf or things like that. That seemed to be about normal. 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:24.160 But then the to and fro again, you could understand 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:27.640 how he was trying to minimize the impact on his 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.560 better affairs payments as well too. You know that's a bonus. 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:35.840 So again We've got this version. We had nothing to 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:39.400 say otherwise, so you have to take it on face 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.960 value for what it is, and then bank records and 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:45.920 everything show that what they said is true. 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:50.160 But detectives soon found a specific ten thousand dollars transfer 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:52.840 that gave them a clue on where some of this 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:56.400 money might have been going. Les had transferredly and ten 0:09:56.480 --> 0:10:00.960 thousand dollars. She told police that Le's owed David's his mother, Shirley, 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:04.120 and Leanne was just transferring the money over to pay 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:07.679 the debt, but when police spoke to Shirley, she had 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.840 a different version of events. She told them that she 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.600 had gone garran tore on a ten thousand dollars loan 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:17.000 for Leanne and David after David had injured himself helping 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.960 out on a relative's reno. Shirley isn't alive now, but 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:24.320 we managed to track down David's sister, Christine, who recalled 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:24.880 the incident. 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:29.160 He was in the bathroom using a circular saw and 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.720 I was painting. He called me in and there he is, 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.800 lying flat out on the floor, the circular saw in 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:40.240 his right groin. He's very lucky to survive that. So 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:43.400 my parents got a loan off their business ten thousand 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:47.040 dollars to get them all through. Flew the family down, 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:51.600 and they made a promise to pay back regularly with 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:54.760 the pension that he was receiving from the police force. 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:55.959 They never did. 0:10:56.800 --> 0:11:02.120 They didn't pay one cent back. So when he recovered, 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:06.600 they went back to Tansville, and my mom found out 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:07.560 they went on a cruise. 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:11.079 Because Shirley was guarant taur she was on the hook 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:14.480 for ten thousand dollars, a big sum now, but even 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:16.160 bigger back in the early nineties. 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:21.640 Eventually, she flew up to Queensland and asked mister Ball 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:25.240 if he could possibly help her out paying back the money, 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:27.920 and he did because he was a nice man. 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:33.360 So, according to Christine, that ten thousand dollar transfer that 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:37.280 Les the nice man made to Leanne was to help 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:40.280 the couple pay off the debt they owed to David's mum. 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:44.000 Shirley Leanne denied this version of events to police, saying 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:47.040 the couple had paid off the debt themselves and that 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:49.800 this money was from Leeds for a separate debt that 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:54.439 he owed. Shirley and Leanne remained stubborn in her police interviews. 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:56.440 She didn't offer up much unprompted. 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:01.320 It wasn't open. If you didn't asked the question, you 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.480 weren't given the answer. It was a case of having 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:08.520 to find out what was the go on. And the 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:10.880 old thing is you know, asked the question if you 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:15.040 know the answer, so we knew the answer, giving Leanne 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:18.600 the opportunity to provide us with the information, and when 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.280 it became apparent that we knew, then she would tell us. 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:23.920 But it was the same thing. If you didn't ask, 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:25.280 you weren't told. 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:28.880 So we know Leanne was in hospital over a thousand 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:32.440 kilometers away when Les disappeared, and there's never been any 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.640 evidence that she was involved in his disappearance in any way. 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.000 And to be fair to Leanne, there's also plenty of 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:42.240 reasons why she might not have been totally forthcoming about 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.600 her finances. David said, one of the reasons she was 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:47.960 a bit all over the place was that she was 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:51.240 on heavy prescription drugs getting hospital treatment in Brisbane. 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:54.680 Yeah, but equally you can see why police were looking 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:58.120 into the Phillips finances. Lez was living in the garage 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:00.560 and was apparently desperate to get out out of there, 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.000 but had to delay moving out because, according to his 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:07.520 lawyer and his real estate agent. He needed the Phillips 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.480 to repay some of the tens of thousands of dollars 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.560 they owed him. And when you start to include that 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:17.120 block of land, Les had actually loaned the Phillips a 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:19.240 total of sixty thousand dollars. 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:21.280 It's a lot of money back then, a lot of. 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:22.960 Money in nineteen ninety three, isn't it. 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:23.640 Yeah. 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:28.520 But even with their progress into Les's finances, Nole's case 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:33.720 eventually goes cold. By nineteen ninety five, there's just a 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:38.679 single newspaper article with the headline no verdict on man missing. 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:43.520 For two years, an inquest was held and no charges 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:45.000 were recommended by the coroner. 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:50.000 The files sat gathering dust for sixteen years until police 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:53.400 officially reopened the case in twenty eleven and began to 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:57.560 reinterview witnesses and their main suspect, David Phillips. Some of 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:01.200 those interviews are covertly recorded and later tended at the 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:06.160 inquest into Lester's disappearance, and this cold case investigation is 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.520 now looking even more closely at the Phillips finances. 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.840 Your father had lent you money at his own free will. 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:19.239 Next question, Okay, there's a total of thirty one. 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:22.440 Well, we'd like to talk to you about the find. 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:24.800 No need to dad, Gay. 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:26.600 He gave his own free will. 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:30.080 That's it. No, no, he gave it to you. It's 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.480 added to meet my own and his own free will. 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:35.960 So there's nothing. There's no question in the about money. 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:37.960 It's only it that brought up a question of the 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:43.680 money because she hated me. Anything now, next question, So 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.920 only it wanted to point out about the money. 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:55.480 As part of the twenty eleven police investigation, detectives also 0:14:55.680 --> 0:15:00.520 spoke to Leanne's mum, who is Les's first wife, Margaret. 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:05.640 Heads one mess now ten am on Sunday twenty seven 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:09.760 November eleven, going off but see Margaret Balls. 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:14.560 Two detectives arrived at Margaret's house on a Sunday morning 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.520 to let her know they were reopening the investigation. They 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:20.840 were secretly recording their conversation. 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:24.840 I just wanted to you know that we are reinvestigating. 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.200 This is Chinas parents has speaking herd of less Ball. 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:31.920 So what we're doing is we're speaking with everyone he 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.120 was involved in the original investigation, perhaps other people too. 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:39.920 Margaret was staying at the Phillips house when Les disappeared. 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:41.960 When police spoke to her. 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.840 In twenty eleven, she was with some relatives and their 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:51.200 reaction when asked about David and Leanne and money tells 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:51.680 you a lot. 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:57.160 Do you know of any money that Les may have 0:15:57.400 --> 0:15:58.600 lent to Leanne? 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:03.560 David, if he did, it would have been on. 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:04.760 The same terms that we all. 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.960 In casing this that last part, one family member jokes 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.680 that the loan would be on the same terms. Then 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:18.200 Margaret says, the boomerang that never returns, and. 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:20.520 I gave them the money. In that David said, oh, 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:22.880 come be down tomorrow, I'll give you the money. That 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.040 no worries, I said, I forget it you did, No, 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.040 I definitely will be down and give you the money, 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:30.960 and no intentions to giving them give me back. 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:36.440 Margaret told detectives about a time after Lasar's disappearance when David, 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.120 Leanne and the kids were living in Melbourne and came 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:40.200 to stay and. 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.800 I was at the hairdressers for two hours. When I 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.880 came back, like practicularly clean me out on were shots. 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.120 I take it, took everything because I had to have 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.280 anything to sleep in it and cook with them. They're 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:55.240 even down to the room and the dust fit. 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.160 So well about it we didn't. 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:04.359 How can you do it? 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:08.280 At this point, Margaret had been estranged from Leanne for 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:10.800 a number of years, so we should probably take that 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:14.680 story with a healthy grain of salt. But what's interesting 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:17.119 is what David's side of the family has to say. 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:21.560 According to his younger sister, Christine, David was always hitting 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:23.400 their parents up for cash. 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:29.720 They paid a lot of bills for them, example, carpet curtains, 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:35.400 air conditioning, and outside blinds. And I'm aware of him 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.720 going to my father for money, although Dad never told 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:42.399 me how much. My parents paid for a caravan for 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:45.679 him to sit and study with. And I know my 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:50.840 mom frequently filled up the pantry food, the staples, meat, veggies, 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:55.119 so the kids had food. He frequently would say I 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.000 need money for a bill, and I wouldn't give him 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:01.520 any money. I said, give me the bill. Yeah, And 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:07.480 he went into detective training. I did pay for two 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:11.359 suits for him to go into detective training with. That 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:14.360 was about six hundred dollars way back then. 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:16.800 Why do you think he needed all that money? 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:22.160 Good question. I think it was the want wan what want? 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:24.199 Yeah. 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:28.280 This evidence from Leanne and David's own family probably explains 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:31.560 this next part of the police interview with Leanne. In 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:35.880 the video, Leanne sits close to camera, arms folded off camera. 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:38.920 A female detective sits across the table from her. 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:42.879 Okay, because we're aware that he received in a property 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:45.600 settlement of one hundred and forty one thousand in lushing 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:46.800 to the marriage break. 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:50.320 With not answering email question about the money, you're all 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:51.520 barking up the long tree. 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:52.240 He was money. 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:56.320 Next question in the corner of the interview room. It's 0:18:56.359 --> 0:19:00.800 a male detective for most of the interview, his fairly silent. 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:04.920 And then are you systematically fluicing money? 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:05.760 Can do you know? 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:07.720 He goes in hard. 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:12.320 You never so the these are these stupid, stupid questions 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:14.800 that keep coming up. I'm not even going to justify 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:15.560 with an answer. 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:18.680 It be stupid if we're talking about one hundred dollars 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:19.479 land that we're not. 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.720 We're talking about a couple of months, well you know, 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:25.200 ten thousand that went to the lawyers, which I've got 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:26.760 back and we're given back to dad. And I mean 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:32.160 to stop making issues that aren't there is your parents 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:36.040 that are giving you any money or anything over your years, 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:39.359 didn't give me thirty one thousand, person, and stop it 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:45.880 and some of that little can't go back to dad 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:48.280 because I've got more money as was supposed to be. 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:52.560 So you've created a problem that's not even there. You 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:56.480 don't think that's a reasonable proposition. Did you hunt someone 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:58.160 over thirty one thousand dollars? 0:19:58.560 --> 0:19:58.639 No? 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:04.440 Exactly right. The next questions aren't, Oh, don't give iculous, 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:05.600 next question? 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:07.640 How much of a one hundred and forty did you get? 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:11.040 You know, all those details I'll do and don't ask 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:15.879 me why are you getting? Because I can't understand how 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:20.320 you can just be so narrow mind and hardly one subject, 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:23.520 and then you've gone all around this one subject and 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:28.159 making it the bee's and ends or of everything in 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:30.240 your wrong, wrong role. 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:38.199 In two thousand and one, after Les had been missing 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:42.199 for eight years, he was officially declared deceased and Leanne 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:46.680 was appointed executor of his estate. She closed his bank account, 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.359 which had seventy thousand dollars in it, and it's not 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:52.760 clear what happened to that money. Later, the block of 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:56.840 land was sold, netting his estate another seventy thousand dollars. 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:01.359 Les had left most of his kids specific mounts five grandire, 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:05.520 ten grand, there Leanne and Lachelle his two favorite children 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:09.080 were supposed to split the rest equally, but police have 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:11.600 never been able to work out if that happened or not. 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:14.600 By the time they tried to get the bank statements, 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:18.000 they'd been destroyed because banks only keep those records for 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:22.560 seven years. Usually a solicitor would handle the estate and 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:26.640 payments to beneficiaries, but in this instance, Leanne herself sent 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:30.360 out the checks, including a sixteen thousand dollar check to Lachelle. 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:33.479 So I'll put the check into my bank account, and 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:36.440 then I'll go into the bank and there's an overdrawer 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:38.399 on my bank account. I didn't know what happened. 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:41.680 They said, you need to check bounce this is Lachelle's mum. 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:45.080 Ed she'd send it to Lachelle, and she counceled it 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:45.880 the same day. 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:51.159 So naturally, detectives questioning Leanne were curious to know what 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:52.040 was going on. 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:54.480 What happened to his estate? 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:59.600 Then, Ah, you know exactly what happened? 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:01.800 Well, we don't. 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:04.760 You should do We don't know exactly, No, you should do. 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:06.600 No, you know where money? 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:08.840 Well, can you tell us where I. 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:12.600 Went to one that was supposed to go to accept 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:15.439 a shirt. I changed it. I canceled her check. At 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:18.760 the last minute because she was stopping the sole of 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:22.760 the land and going through she failed twice. It was 0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:26.560 sold and she wouldn't let it go through. I said, 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:28.440 just let her have the land and she can deal 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:32.520 with it. Chucker would end up being equal the same man. 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:36.760 So because Atlaine was supposed to be divided again when 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:38.360 it came to I just said to give her half. 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:41.359 That that was just that was just the family issue. 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:46.040 Michelle, for what it's worth, says this isn't true. She 0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:48.560 only found out about the block of land after her 0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:49.400 check bounced. 0:22:50.000 --> 0:22:52.679 After we found out the check bounced, my mum and 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:55.680 the lawyers got onto it quickly and went through courts 0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:58.160 to put a caveat on the land so that she. 0:22:58.080 --> 0:22:58.760 Couldn't touch that. 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:03.040 But it's David who was the focus of the police investigation, 0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:06.520 because remember Leanne was in hospital when her dad went missing. 0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:09.760 Here's David's police interview and. 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:19.800 Now speling to go on. I didn't understanding all the 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:23.840 type of question we put through the mill before. 0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:28.439