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Speaker 1: This episode of Headgame was recorded on gadigal Land September eleven,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one, a day etched in the minds

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Speaker 1: of millions around the world. As the Twin Towers fall

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Speaker 1: in New York City. Australian journalist Mike Amore is there.

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Speaker 2: This is all that remains of the world trade said,

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Speaker 2: are both towers gone? Over my right hand, stop shoulder.

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Speaker 2: You can still see that the Twin Towers, or what's

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Speaker 2: left of the Twin Towers, is still burning.

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Speaker 1: Ten years later, he returned to the scene as the

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Speaker 1: memorial officially opened.

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Speaker 2: For family members. Today was the first time they would

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Speaker 2: get to see, get to touch the names of their

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Speaker 2: loved ones written in the walls around the memorial water falls.

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Speaker 2: It took ten years, but finally they have an official

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Speaker 2: place to mourn their loss.

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Speaker 1: November four, two thousand and eight, America elects its first

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Speaker 1: black president. Mike Amore is there.

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Speaker 2: It is now one of the greatest American stories. Four

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Speaker 2: years ago, Barack Obama wasn't even a US Tonight he

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Speaker 2: stands on stage accepting his nation's highest honor. Said, to

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Speaker 2: become the forty fourth President of the United States.

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Speaker 1: November thirteen, twenty fifteen, a coordinated terrorist attack consisting of

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Speaker 1: suicide bombings and shootings rock Paris. Mike Amore is caught

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Speaker 1: in the aftermath.

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Speaker 2: We're not sure exactly what's going on. There's just mayhem

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Speaker 2: and panic. This square was packed just a moment ago

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Speaker 2: and then they just everyone started to run.

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Speaker 1: I'm at Middleton and this is head game. For more

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Speaker 1: than two decades, Mike Amore has traveled the globe reporting

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Speaker 1: on major events for seven News Today. Mike on his

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Speaker 1: memorable story, He's from the road and what it takes

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Speaker 1: to be an international correspondent. Mike a more Australian journalist,

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Speaker 1: fascinating guy, eating career. Thanks for coming on, Mike, How

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Speaker 1: are you, buddy?

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Speaker 2: Great mate, thank you very much for having me and

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Speaker 2: I'm a big fans so wrapped to be on with you.

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Speaker 1: May fascinating. Like I said, I can't wait to get

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Speaker 1: into this. But Mike, take me back to where it

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Speaker 1: all started briefly, because you know, falling into the journalist world.

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Speaker 1: I suppose it's a lot different now. How did it

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Speaker 1: look back then and what sparked your interest in becoming

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Speaker 1: a journalist or getting into that sort of field of operations?

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Speaker 2: Well, and my dad was a newspaper printer for forty years,

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Speaker 2: so he worked at the local newspaper. So everybody I

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Speaker 2: was around right through my early childhood and beyond were

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Speaker 2: involved in newspapers. The sub editors, the journalis, the compositors.

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Speaker 2: There was a much different world to what we have

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Speaker 2: now in journalism. I left school. I almost failed Year

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Speaker 2: twelve English, so I probably didn't have a really yeah,

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Speaker 2: I stuck at it, so I probably didn't have any

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Speaker 2: right to become a journalist. But through nepotism, and I

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Speaker 2: don't mind admitting it, my dad went to the local

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Speaker 2: editor and said, hey, I've been working for you guys

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Speaker 2: overnight for decades. Give little mate a run, and they

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Speaker 2: were kind enough to do that. I struggled early days,

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Speaker 2: but I quickly fell in love with journalism. The characters

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Speaker 2: their newsrooms were much different, not politically correct by any

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Speaker 2: stretch of the imagination. There are hard men, and you

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Speaker 2: know four o'clock some of them were probably a bit

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Speaker 2: boozy by that stage. There was a cloud of cigarette

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Speaker 2: smoke hanging from the ceiling. And you know, these were

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Speaker 2: old fashioned, hardcore journals who go I used to be

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Speaker 2: amazed they'd go to lunch and have twelve pots of

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Speaker 2: beer and then go back to work. They were talking

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Speaker 2: a different world to what we're talking now. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, and that was you know, that's the way the

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Speaker 1: world was back then. That was acceptable. You know, that's

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Speaker 1: how you got through your day back then, was a

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Speaker 1: good old cigarette, you know, a couple of drinks and

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Speaker 1: away we go. Especially in that field, because you know,

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Speaker 1: the banter must have been quite quite harsh, you know,

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Speaker 1: that sort of locker room banter that that we have

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Speaker 1: in the military.

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Speaker 3: It must have been the same back in your day.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: Oh. Yeah. They were tough men. I mean they were

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Speaker 2: They were kind, but they were tough in their in

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Speaker 2: their guidance. If you stuff something up, they're not guilding

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Speaker 2: the lily like we do now with children. Oh you'll

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Speaker 2: be right, No, no, no, you've got both barrels. And

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Speaker 2: for that kind of created who I would become as

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Speaker 2: a journalist but also as a man. I'm not saying

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Speaker 2: it's necessarily the right way to go, but it worked

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Speaker 2: for me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. It's the same with me and the military.

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Speaker 1: You know, when someone was shouting and screaming at me

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Speaker 1: and saying, Middleton, if you're last you know you're going

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Speaker 1: to get my boot up your ass. That that actually

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Speaker 1: egged me on. I didn't want to be at the back.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be at the front.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I needed that sort of instruction, shall we say, in

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Speaker 1: order to thrive. It worked for me as well, so

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Speaker 1: I completely get it. Mike. Now, going back as well,

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Speaker 1: you said you keep saying you know those guys though,

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Speaker 1: was it Is it a male dominant organization and what

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Speaker 1: was it like? Did you need any qualifications to get

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Speaker 1: in or just a case of you know, your dad

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Speaker 1: put in a good word for you and then boom,

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Speaker 1: you went into a male dominant organization.

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Speaker 2: It was pretty male dominated. There were females there. It

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Speaker 2: wasn't politically correct. I never saw anything you know, sexual,

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Speaker 2: but it was a male dominated environment. Just as far

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Speaker 2: as qualifications, back then, I caught the tail end and

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Speaker 2: they did it in the UK as well. To become

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Speaker 2: a journalist, you did a four year cadet ship like

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Speaker 2: on the job apprenticeship degrees were just starting to come

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Speaker 2: in then, but I didn't do it. I did a

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Speaker 2: four year cadet ship through the union. So that's how

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Speaker 2: I got into it.

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Speaker 1: Take me back to that day, Mike, when you when

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Speaker 1: you became a fully fledged journalist, where were you and

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Speaker 1: do you remember that moment or did it all just

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Speaker 1: mix into one?

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Speaker 2: Were kind of mixed into one, because what you could

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Speaker 2: do as a cadet, you could go from a third

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Speaker 2: year cadet, get a job as what we would call

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Speaker 2: a degrade journalist and an other organization. And that's what

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Speaker 2: I did.

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Speaker 3: So I probably sleek grade journalist.

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Speaker 1: That sound good, mate, That doesn't sound good.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people might say, I'm still a D

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Speaker 2: grade journalist, but that's that's how it was. You know,

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Speaker 2: you go D all the way up to a grade journalist,

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Speaker 2: So that's how that's how the system works. I kind

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Speaker 2: of jumped from newspapers at a early early age. I

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Speaker 2: was twenty and I jumped into my first fora into television,

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Speaker 2: and again I struggled. I was terrible. I think my

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Speaker 2: boss at that stage six weeks in and he told

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Speaker 2: me you might want to look for another job because

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Speaker 2: this doesn't suit you. So it took me a while.

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Speaker 3: I call that character building. I was middle to and

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Speaker 3: the military is not for you.

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Speaker 1: And then I end up as a as a Tier

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Speaker 1: one Special forces operator or you know, that's not it's

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Speaker 1: not called it a.

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Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, yeah, exactly like.

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Speaker 1: You said, you know, you stuck at it, and I

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Speaker 1: suppose you know when you look at journalism and you

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Speaker 1: look at what you're going to see, what you're going

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Speaker 1: to witness, what you're going to have to report, the.

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Speaker 3: Integrity behind it.

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Speaker 1: How important was the integral side of it, reporting the

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Speaker 1: news factually and telling the truth.

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Speaker 2: It was everything. It's fundamentally what I've got my career on.

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Speaker 2: I was taught at a very early age that finding

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Speaker 2: the truth, the search for the truth, is fundamental to

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Speaker 2: everything we do. It might not suit our story that

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Speaker 2: we're chasing, but it's fundamental to what we do. Holding

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Speaker 2: those in power to account is fundamental to what we're doing.

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Speaker 2: I was also told very early on to be fair

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Speaker 2: to people. I was doing a record review back in

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Speaker 2: the day, in the eighties, and I wrote this scathing

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Speaker 2: record review, remembering I was in my teens, and when

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Speaker 2: the journeists pulled me inside, would you like that said

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Speaker 2: about you? And I said, well, this guy is a

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Speaker 2: big star, yes it doesn't matter. Would you like that

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Speaker 2: written about you? So fairness, the truth, and accuracy were

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Speaker 2: drilled into me relentlessly, and we took complaints and I

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Speaker 2: still take complaints about that very seriously.

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Speaker 1: Take me back to your very first big memorable story,

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Speaker 1: you know, I suppose, and I'm not a bit worthy

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Speaker 1: of you. Where you getting all the shitty little stories

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Speaker 1: at first, and then you build your way up to

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Speaker 1: a bigger story where you go, I've made it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, No. I covered all sorts of crappy little

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Speaker 2: stories to go along. You know. I did the Fire

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Speaker 2: Brigade Australian Championships where you know, not to integrate the fibrigaete.

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Speaker 2: You know they're great, But that wasn't a big story.

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Speaker 2: My first big story that I would call kind of,

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Speaker 2: you know, a world class kind of story, and it

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Speaker 2: was a horrible story was Port Arthur massacre. For those

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Speaker 2: who don't remember, thirty five people died, killed, slaughtered in

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Speaker 2: Port Arthur nineteen ninety six. I'd only been to Port

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Speaker 2: Arthur as a tourist a couple of weeks earlier in Tasmania.

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Speaker 2: Beautiful spot where they you're lot kicked out a lot

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Speaker 2: as convicts, very historic area, but it became the scene

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Speaker 2: of just something absolutely horrific. Martin Bryant went into the

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Speaker 2: Broad Arrow cafe, where again I'd only been a couple

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Speaker 2: of weeks ago, just slaughtered everybody in there, then chased

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Speaker 2: tourists around the buses, and then slaughtered a mother and

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Speaker 2: two very young children on the way out. Horrendous story

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Speaker 2: just shook Australia to its very core, led to gun

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Speaker 2: control measures taken by John Howard. I was in court,

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Speaker 2: probably a couple of feet away from Martin Bryant when

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Speaker 2: he pleaded guilty to thirty five counts of murder, and

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Speaker 2: he laughed all the way through him cleaning because he

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Speaker 2: found it amusing about how it was repetitive. You know,

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Speaker 2: how do you plead to the murder of this person?

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Speaker 2: How do you plead? And his own council legal counsel

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Speaker 2: ended up telling him to shut up in the end,

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Speaker 2: but looking into his eyes, he was pure evil. He's

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Speaker 2: serving life in prison, will never get out, should never

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Speaker 2: get out. But also, and it was the first of many,

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Speaker 2: many too many massacres that I'd go on to cover,

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Speaker 2: but it was certainly the one that rocked me to

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Speaker 2: my core.

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Speaker 3: How do you find yourself on the job like that?

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Speaker 3: Who gives you the call? Do you volunteer for it?

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: It's not for the faint hearted, is it No?

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Speaker 2: And probably I was underprepared. I think I was twenty six,

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Speaker 2: maybe twenty seven, and so still very young, still very

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Speaker 2: experienced in my journalism career. Every journalist wants to go

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Speaker 2: to a big story. That's a natural reaction. I was

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Speaker 2: kind of the second wave, so I wasn't there on

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Speaker 2: the ground that day, but I was there relieving people

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Speaker 2: who had been there several days. And I found Tasmania beautiful,

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Speaker 2: beautiful state. The people were just absolutely devastated, and that

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Speaker 2: quickly turned to anger towards the journalists like myself, which

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Speaker 2: commonplace in those kind of people start to they want

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Speaker 2: to put their anger somewhere, and of course it's we

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Speaker 2: journalists who are asking questions who don't go away as

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Speaker 2: quickly as they want to. I get that reaction, and

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Speaker 2: I've seen that repeated throughout my journey.

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Speaker 3: But it shook me to the core because if you.

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Speaker 2: Didn't know somebody who was directly involved, you knew of

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Speaker 2: somebody who knew of somebody, if you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: It was a really devastating, life changing event. Illustrated it.

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Speaker 2: Thankfully we haven't seen again.

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Speaker 1: How do you sort of manage coming off the back

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Speaker 1: end of that, do you just keep yourself busy by

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Speaker 1: going on to the next big story And you know,

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Speaker 1: at such a young age twenty six, being exposed to that,

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Speaker 1: that's your first big story. When you come off of it, well,

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Speaker 1: do you just get your head straight back in the game.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to, you have to. I do remember

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Speaker 2: being really badly shaken by it and underprepared and not knowing,

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Speaker 2: you know, I felt guilty being down there. But I

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Speaker 2: also say that I don't live in a world where

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Speaker 2: thirty five people can be massacred and we all just

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Speaker 2: move on quickly. I don't want to live in that world.

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Speaker 2: I think it's important that we keep asking questions and

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Speaker 2: showing the impact of it. I was deeply shaken. I

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Speaker 2: think over time moving beyond that, you know, you learned

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Speaker 2: to just push that stuff down deep, deep, deep, And

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Speaker 2: that was one of the things in writing this book.

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Speaker 2: I was forced to confront the publishers, who were wonderful.

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Speaker 2: They kept saying, no, no, no, no, we want.

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Speaker 3: More, we need more about it.

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Speaker 2: You can't nothing compared to you have been throughout. But

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Speaker 2: I'm sure you've kind of followed that similar journey where

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Speaker 2: you have to confront you know, how has this really

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Speaker 2: affected me? I can't just keep moving on without at

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Speaker 2: least looking back and see you know.

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Speaker 1: See absolutely mate, now I get it. And then you

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Speaker 1: say nothing compared to you. It is because you know,

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Speaker 1: you don't know how you're going to react emotionally, psychologically,

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Speaker 1: or physically when you're exposed to a certain situation, when

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Speaker 1: you're exposed to certain people, when you're exposed to certain imagery,

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Speaker 1: when you're exposed to certain you know, environments.

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Speaker 3: It's just the environment itself.

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Speaker 1: You know, you step into an environment and you just

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Speaker 1: know the hostilities there. And was it the first time

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Speaker 1: that you experienced hostility to the point where you're trying

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Speaker 1: to report the truth and trying to get down to

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Speaker 1: finding out what exactly went on and then all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden you're being met with this hostility where people

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Speaker 1: don't want you there, They're probably being violent, they're being

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Speaker 1: aggressive towards you. Is this the first time you experienced

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Speaker 1: that as well?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And it was kind of it was confronting because

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Speaker 2: I'm going through to a degree what they're going through.

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Speaker 2: But also no, we're never violent, but there was certainly

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Speaker 2: aggressive towards us. Again, I understand it. I don't ask

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Speaker 2: for any sympathy about any of this because I chose

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Speaker 2: to be there, they didn't. But you know, it is confronting,

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Speaker 2: it is you know. I always say that sometimes you

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Speaker 2: see things with your eyes that your mind can't just

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Speaker 2: can't compute, just cannot get around one. And that's and

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Speaker 2: that's that's really tough. And you know, again we are

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Speaker 2: we are, I guess intruding, which I've always struggled with

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Speaker 2: people in their worse time suffering grief. That's always a

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Speaker 2: difficult balance as a journalist.

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Speaker 1: After this, you dive straight back into work. Very much

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Speaker 1: like myself, you know, I'm very much you know, get

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Speaker 1: my head back in the game so I can continue,

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Speaker 1: and you know, not not forget about it, because we

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Speaker 1: never do, but just you know, focus on something else

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Speaker 1: and to keep your mind distracted. I suppose what was

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Speaker 1: the next big news story for you?

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Speaker 2: After that, I bounced around a little bit. I was

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Speaker 2: still based in Melbourne as a journalist. I went to

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Speaker 2: the handover of Hong Kong back to Chinese rule, so

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Speaker 2: I kind of started getting into that international flavor of stories.

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Speaker 2: I was also covering major stories bushfires and the deployment

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Speaker 2: of troops into East Team or here in Australia. But

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Speaker 2: that's when I really became focused on becoming a foreign correspondent.

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Speaker 2: That's when I knew it's what I wanted to do.

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Speaker 2: I had that little bit of taste. I was watching

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Speaker 2: people that I admire, and I really wanted to do that.

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Speaker 1: What does your sort of family life or your you know,

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Speaker 1: your love life look like, you know, going into your

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Speaker 1: late twenties, you're now you're like a foreign correspondent.

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Speaker 3: You're traveling around.

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Speaker 1: Is it impossible to have a relationship or you know,

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Speaker 1: like a love life, you know, because ultimately, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you're bouncing around, I suppose you're meeting lots of

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Speaker 1: different people, and but you.

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Speaker 3: Know, you are you just purely focused on your work.

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Speaker 2: I was always focused on my work, probably too much.

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Speaker 2: I didn't meet my now wife until I went to Ala.

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Speaker 2: I met her probably six months in. She's American. It

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Speaker 2: is a very taxing lifestyle for family, very taxing. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was probably way seventy eighty percent of the time,

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Speaker 2: and I could never commit to anything. In fact, a

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Speaker 2: lot of her friends wondered whether I even existed because

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Speaker 2: they never saw me. So Tracy's been very patient with

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Speaker 2: me over the journey, knowing and always encouraging me. You

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Speaker 2: know you've got Sometimes you don't say that journos want

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Speaker 2: to go to big stories, but when you're going to

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Speaker 2: one after another after another after another, sometimes you go oh,

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Speaker 2: and she go, look, Mike, you need to go to this.

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Speaker 2: This is an important story. So I'm very grateful for

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Speaker 2: her and her great support. I couldn't have done it

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Speaker 2: without her, and that even became tougher when we became parents.

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Speaker 2: You know, you miss so much. That's probably my big

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Speaker 2: regret is missing so much of my son's early years

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Speaker 2: when he actually wanted to be around me. Yeah, exactly, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: when they actually want daddy, and then it's no Dad,

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Speaker 2: get away from me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, embarrassing me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I I look, that was the price I paid.

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Speaker 2: But my wife said, look, we were afforded a great lifestyle.

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Speaker 2: I lived in America for eighteen years. I loved every

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Speaker 2: second of it.

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Speaker 3: Amazing.

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Speaker 1: What was it like covering the inaugurations? So you covered

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Speaker 1: Georgia W. Bush's, Barack Obama's. And the reason why I

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Speaker 1: say that is because I went to the Trump inauguration

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Speaker 1: this latest one.

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Speaker 2: Sure, I was.

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Speaker 3: Fortunately I got invited to his ball as well.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, it was when you talk about being

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Speaker 1: a journalist, it was so fascinating.

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Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, it was really really cool.

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Speaker 1: But what was it like, you know, having your sort

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Speaker 1: of first taste of that political realm, because it's completely

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Speaker 1: different to covering the story of a massacre of violence.

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Speaker 1: And how do they differ.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you the story. I went to LA

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Speaker 2: straight out of the Sydney Olympics, so it was October

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Speaker 2: two thousand and I don't know the excitement of getting

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Speaker 2: the job. I just I overlooked the fact that we

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Speaker 2: were going into an election George W. Bush Al Gore,

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Speaker 2: and it suddenly dawned on me. Should I don't know

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Speaker 2: anything about us politics? And my boss said to me

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Speaker 2: at the time, I'd only been there literally week. He said, Mike,

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Speaker 2: don't worry about this. This will be a one maybe two

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Speaker 2: day story. We'll move on. I don't know if you

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Speaker 2: remember that election Al Gore George W. Bush. It became

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Speaker 2: a disaster that the networks called it for Gore, then

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Speaker 2: retracted it called.

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Speaker 3: It for Busch.

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Speaker 2: Bush was about to go out and do an acceptance speech.

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Speaker 2: Gore rang back and said and took his concession away,

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Speaker 2: and then it was the hanging chads. This election wasn't

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Speaker 2: over in one or two days. It was over in

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Speaker 2: I think it dragged on for two months. I went

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Speaker 2: to the US Supreme Court where ultimately, but then I

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Speaker 2: fell in love with US politics. And I went to

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Speaker 2: the inauguration of George W. Bush, which it would have

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Speaker 2: been nothing like Donald Trump. I was literally standing, you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe one hundred meters away from George Bush who was

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Speaker 2: on stage at the Capitol. Bitterly cold days would have

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Speaker 2: been for yours as well. But I fell in love

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Speaker 2: with the pomp and ceremony of US politics. It's a

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Speaker 2: bit more of a sport it was. It's become a

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Speaker 2: bit more of a blood sport now, but it was

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Speaker 2: a bit more of a sport in America compared to Australia,

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Speaker 2: where we're taught not to talk about politics. They debate

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Speaker 2: every part of it, and I loved that. I love

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Speaker 2: the kind of the theater of it, the conventions, the debate.

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Speaker 3: I just loved it.

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Speaker 2: I fell in love with it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the same with me is fascinating because it's almost

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Speaker 1: like having a huge team, and everyone knows each other's

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Speaker 1: roles and they will know absolutely everything, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: hugely celebrated, you know, the hugely patriotic as well, especially

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Speaker 1: you know back in the late nineties and the early

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Speaker 1: two thousands.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I can imagine that was that was amazing, And.

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Speaker 1: You said, it really sparks your love for politics. Is

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Speaker 1: it hard not to dive in headfirst and get really

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Speaker 1: involved within that political realm? And how hard is it

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Speaker 1: to sort of pull yourself out of that and to

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Speaker 1: get into a fresh story.

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Speaker 3: At the time, we were kind of it was kind

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Speaker 3: of a rolling mix.

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Speaker 2: You know, We've been covering Barack Obama's election campaign one day,

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Speaker 2: then massacre the next, then then you know, the red

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Speaker 2: carpet for the oscars to a space shuttle takeoff to

395
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Speaker 2: you know, going to some kind of disaster overseas. That

396
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Speaker 2: was what we did, you know, and we're rolled back

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Speaker 2: into the next one, and the next one and the

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Speaker 2: next one. It was like, yeah, it's like one big blur.

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Speaker 2: It was just we're going to do this, Okay, let's

400
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Speaker 2: go back melting. Oh yeah, it was, but that you

401
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 2: were never bored.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

403
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Speaker 1: Yeah, kept you on your toes, mate, right, absolutely, And

404
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Speaker 1: you happen to be in the States when nine eleven hits. Everyone,

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Speaker 1: I suppose remembers where they were. I remember where I was.

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Speaker 1: I was in the Army. I was in Macedonia on

407
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Speaker 1: operations in Macedonia to prevent a civil war, collecting firearms

408
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Speaker 1: off the local rebels. And remember going into a big

409
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Speaker 1: airplane hangar. Everyone was in the corner of this hanger

410
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Speaker 1: watching a black and white TV, you know, with a

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Speaker 1: little antenna, and I can just remember getting up on

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Speaker 1: my tiptoes and seeing the twin towers go down and

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Speaker 1: then I sort of, you know, the echo chambers within

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Speaker 1: that airplane hanger were like, all right, this is it.

415
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Speaker 1: We're going to war. This is the start of World

416
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Speaker 1: War three as such. You know, that was the sort

417
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Speaker 1: of environment. Where were you and especially being in the States.

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Speaker 3: You were in New York as well.

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Speaker 2: Weren't you? I was, Yeah, what was it like?

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Speaker 3: And take me back to that day.

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Speaker 2: Well, Leighton Hewitt had just won the US Open Tennis

422
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Speaker 2: Championship that weekend the previous weekend, so we've been in

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Speaker 2: New York for that. We went out and we drank

424
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Speaker 2: too much. I'll be honest, it was what journeys do.

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Speaker 2: So the next day, next morning, we were running late

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Speaker 2: for the airport. We were dusty. We jumped into this

427
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Speaker 2: cab and the kabby thought we were tourists and you know,

428
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Speaker 2: you're not New York. Cabby's like, they're not the friendliest,

429
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Speaker 2: but this guy happened to be super friendly, and he

430
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Speaker 2: told us he was from Israel. And we drove down

431
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Speaker 2: trying to get off Manhattan Island towards the airport. It

432
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Speaker 2: was about eight fifteen I think, and he said, oh,

433
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Speaker 2: that's the Israeli Consulate. There's always a police car out

434
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Speaker 2: the front. And with that almost on cue, the police

435
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Speaker 2: car just lit up its lights and sped off, and

436
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Speaker 2: he's like, that's unusual. We turned down into one of

437
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 2: the tunnels in Manhattan to take us to the airport

438
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 2: JFK and we came out of the tunnel and the

439
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 2: whole world had changed. My phone because we were talking

440
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 2: flip phones back then. It didn't work in the tunnel.

441
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,400
Speaker 2: It just lit up. Going back into the tunnel, going

442
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 2: towards Manhattan was every fire truck, ambulance, police card.

443
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 1: So you're seeing this visually, so you're just all of

444
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 1: a sudden, this whole and what's going through your head?

445
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 3: Are you confused?

446
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm thinking what's going on here? Because remember we're

447
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 2: going away from Manhattan, so the twin towers were behind us.

448
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,959
Speaker 2: Finally we got a call from a producer in Sydney

449
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 2: and said where are you What are you doing? I said, why,

450
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 2: what's going on? And they said a plane has hit

451
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 2: the World Trades in the tower. I'm like, oh no,

452
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 2: that's impossible. I turned to the look through the rear

453
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 2: of the window of the taxi. That kind of framed

454
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 2: it almost perfectly. There was the first tower, big hole,

455
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 2: smoke starting to come out out of it.

456
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 3: You can see it.

457
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, I mean it were dominated the skyline

458
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh my god, a beautiful blue sky.

459
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:14,120
Speaker 2: It was vividly, you know, just a beautiful, beautiful day.

460
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 2: And they said, well, we're going to get you on.

461
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 2: It was late at night in Australia. We're going to

462
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 2: get you on. We're going to do a phone cross

463
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 2: to you in the cab and we're you know, we're

464
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 2: screaming at the cab can you get us back there?

465
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 2: And he's screaming and he's banging, he's banging. He's in tears,

466
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 2: he's banging the wheel. They have come for us here,

467
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 2: he said. He obviously thought it was terrorism. Immediately, I'm

468
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 2: on the phone ready to do a live cross back

469
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 2: to the studio, and I could hear the studio, the

470
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:43,120
Speaker 2: control room, and I heard them all scream and oh

471
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 2: my god, another one's hit. Look back in the cab.

472
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 2: Sure enough, there's a second gaping hole. It was immediately

473
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 2: clear this was terrorism. There's no way that that could

474
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 2: have happened. And we turned on We're trying to get

475
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 2: down back onto Manhattan Island. Were shutting off bridges and

476
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 2: tunnels as quickly as they could. They were concerned that

477
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,719
Speaker 2: this was just the start of attacks. Turned on the radio,

478
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 2: you know, there was reports of the Supreme Court, a

479
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: bomb outside the Supreme Court. The plane Assys hit the Pentagon.

480
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 2: Another one's gone down in Pennsylvania, another one's going towards

481
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 2: the White House. And was like, oh my god, it's

482
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 2: like war of the World's, like, what on earth is

483
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 2: going on here? You know, some of it wasn't true,

484
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 2: but a lot of it, too much of it was true.

485
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 2: We eventually go right down, We had to circle right

486
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 2: down into to get into Manhattan through Harlem. We got

487
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 2: down and we made our way down. Can you imagine

488
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,919
Speaker 2: it was Mayam made our way down just as the

489
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 2: first tower came down. We didn't see it. I couldn't

490
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 2: see it. But what I could see it eventually emerging

491
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 2: were people just covered in dust. You couldn't see. You

492
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 2: couldn't see withere, the black, white, Asian whatever, you just

493
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 2: could and you could see the terror in their eyes.

494
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 2: And we arrived as the dust was starting to billow

495
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 2: up and scrambled, grabbed whatever we could from the taxi

496
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 2: driver to get us through, and ran into it. And

497
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 2: we were there for weeks upon weeks, and I still

498
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 2: remember seeing these firefighters coming out of the dus had

499
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 2: remained of the World Trade Center, and for some reason,

500
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 2: the phone towers, mobile phone towlers were on top of

501
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 2: the World Trade Center, so they'd come down. So communications

502
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 2: it's very difficult primitive time, remember, And for some reason

503
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 2: my phone worked just as these firefighters came out, and

504
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 2: one asked can I call? And I said yeah, sure,

505
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 2: and he gave him the phone and his partner's wife

506
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 2: he said, he broke down. He said, I've lost so

507
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 2: many people today. I don't you know he's in tears,

508
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 2: you know, three hundred and something odd firefighters and then

509
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 2: thank me for the call, gave me the phone back,

510
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 2: picked up his gear and went straight back in. You know,

511
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 2: that's bravery, that is just you know, those guys were

512
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 2: still charging into the second tower after the first went down.

513
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 2: I just cannot imagine. And for days afterwards we could

514
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 2: hear their personal alarms beeping. They all wore personal alarms.

515
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 2: I don't know if you do in the army as well,

516
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 2: but in the cases of trauma, they could use those

517
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,479
Speaker 2: alarms to find them. With those alarms were going off,

518
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 2: you could hear beat all in the rubble in the rubble,

519
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 2: but they never found so many of them, you know,

520
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 2: you just could just hear it. I guess I just

521
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: kept going off until until they ran out of batteries.

522
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 2: But you know, so many of those people were never found, remains, parts, bits,

523
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, it's just terrific.

524
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: So on on that day, Mike, when you're in when

525
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: you're in that, you know, talk about sensory overload. What's

526
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: going through your head as a journalist, And again, you know,

527
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: probably a very difficult question to answer, but are you

528
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: thinking I need to report this. Are you thinking I

529
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 1: need to help? But how do you function?

530
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 2: Well? You have to focus on what you can and

531
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 2: that is for me at that stage, was getting what

532
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 2: was that getting on air? I had to get on

533
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 2: you gotcha? And again we're talking twenty five years ago.

534
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 2: So the only way I could get on air was

535
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: to get a satellite, get connected to a satellite. The

536
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 2: only people that had satellites were our NBCC and IN affiliates,

537
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 2: but of course they were choc a block. So I

538
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 2: had to try and get on air. I was begging people.

539
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 2: I knew, can I just get five minutes, ten minutes, anything,

540
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 2: I just need to get on air. You know, we're

541
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 2: recording stuff. But my sole focus was to get on air.

542
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 2: But I was again HARKing back to port Arthur. I

543
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: was overwhelmed in another way because this was I'm a boyfriend, Indigo,

544
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, I'm on the scene of

545
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 2: what really is still the biggest story of my career.

546
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: You know, this is the first time we've seen something

547
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 2: play out like that on TV. And I actually never

548
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 2: saw the vision for a long time because I remember

549
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: I was scrambling to get there. I didn't see division

550
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 2: until twelve hours later, but I knew the world had changed.

551
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 2: It changed your world. It changed my world. Even if

552
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 2: you weren't a journalist or a soldier, it changed your world.

553
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 2: It changed the trajectory of world history, wars and terrorist attacks.

554
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 2: So yeah, I was overwhelmed, and I was I don't mind,

555
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: I don't mind admitting it. It was unbelievable.

556
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: The reason why I ask is because I am good

557
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: friends with the second in command of the counter terrorism

558
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: cell in the CIA when when this happened, and I

559
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: said to him exactly the same question.

560
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 3: I said, what do you do? He said, we didn't

561
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 3: know what to do.

562
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: This was so so advanced, This was so out of

563
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: our remit of you know, what we portrayed as a

564
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: terrorist attack that we just we were just like, right,

565
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: where where do we start? Where do you start with

566
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: something like that? And I suppose it's trying to find

567
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: the truth, trying to find out what happened, and then

568
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: you can go, hopefully go from the truth and start

569
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: to pick off, you know, the rest of the story

570
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: or the rest of how this transpired.

571
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: It was so big. That first day was just so big.

572
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 2: It's hard to wrap your head around it. Not only

573
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 2: these huge towers, and if people who have seen them

574
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: would know how much they dominated, certainly lower Manha, It's

575
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 2: unfathomable that they'd come down. I don't know that they

576
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 2: even thought they'd truly come down. But that was not

577
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 2: what two towers were part of a collection of, like

578
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 2: I think, thirteen buildings. I didn't see the towers come down,

579
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: but I saw another building that was part of the

580
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 2: World Trade Center, and it was I think sixty stories

581
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 2: I saw it come down. That to me was just unbelievable.

582
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 2: It had been cleared by that stage. But then even

583
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: think about further the Pentagon being hit, My god, you know,

584
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 2: the symbol of American military was hit. Those brave people

585
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 2: who sent the plane into the paddock in Pennsylvania, probably

586
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 2: going towards the White House. The ramifications at that stage

587
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 2: were like, oh, you probably couldn't even think of the

588
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 2: next step, and they grounded every plane in America. Not

589
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 2: to mention I'd had a just on a personal note,

590
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 2: I had a fight with my wife now what then

591
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 2: girlfriend Tracy the night before and hung up in anger

592
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: over something stupid, and she got a call to wake

593
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: her up in La and where's Mike. We can't get

594
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: on too him Alway's catching a plane or you know,

595
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 2: turn on your TV and there's a plane, and of

596
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: course I couldn't I couldn't call her because my phones

597
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 2: weren't working at you know. So you know, I'm sure

598
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 2: my poor old parents were watching in Bendy Go, thinking

599
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 2: what the fuck is Mike up to? So yeah, all

600
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 2: of that that was going through my mind. And not

601
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: to mention that the logistics. And I often say that

602
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 2: journalism in those types go to batilds and disasters. It's

603
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 2: like a game of survivor, because you not only have

604
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 2: to do the job, You've got to also think about logistics.

605
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 2: You've got to think of where you're going to sleep,

606
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 2: where you're going to eat, how are you going to

607
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: power your repower and recharge your phone, your batteries. We

608
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 2: were stuck in Lower Manhattan for three or four days

609
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 2: before we could get out. I slept in the cameraman's car.

610
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 2: The first night, I slept in the in the entrance

611
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 2: to a building on a we made like a bed

612
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 2: out of cardboard boxes. And then third night we got

613
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 2: our own satellite truck and we slept on the floor

614
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 2: of the satellite truck. I mean again, I don't want

615
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 2: sympathy for that because I chose to be there. But

616
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 2: that's the kind of challenges you're facing along the way,

617
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 2: and how do we charge our phones? How do we

618
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 2: speak to people when the phones aren't working? It's yeah,

619
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: it was mind brade.

620
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: And you did you feel like because you were there

621
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: you had a sense of duty, because you know, I

622
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: know a lot of people that were there on the

623
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: ground and the first thing they'd done was get as

624
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: far as way as possible from the situation. The flights

625
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: were grounded, and all they were thinking about was getting

626
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: the hell out of there.

627
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 3: Did that ever come across your mind.

628
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 2: N We were there for a reason. We were there

629
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 2: for a purpose. There are other journalists who got caught

630
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 2: on the other side of the country who couldn't get

631
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: to where, who were scrambling in the opposite direction. It's

632
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 2: always kind of always amazing to me that we're seemed

633
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 2: to be going in the opposite direction. The traffic is

634
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 2: never bad in the direction we're going, it's always seems

635
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 2: to be bad in the other direction. I find these

636
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 2: things it's a kind of a I guess, an unnatural

637
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: reaction but yet I never only thought about getting out

638
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 2: of it. I wanted to stay. We were working around

639
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 2: the clock because our six o'clock bulletin I think was

640
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 2: at four am, so we were working around the clock

641
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,959
Speaker 2: to try and service everything. The appetite for the story

642
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: was unprecedented.

643
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: So after that day, how does the story evolve? You know,

644
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: the longer that you're there, you start to hear I

645
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 1: suppose this happened, and this happened, and this happened. Are

646
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 1: you trying to piece that together? I suppose you're not

647
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: just reporting. Are you you're investigating? Are you trying to

648
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 1: piece the story together? As the days progress.

649
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 2: It was so big that you know, we were kind

650
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 2: of swept up in the momentum of the story globally.

651
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 2: But as the day went, as the days went, you

652
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 2: kind of you you drill down into elements of it,

653
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 2: you know, like like George W. Bush went to the

654
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 2: ruins and I don't know if you remember that on

655
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 2: the loud hailer, you know, yes I did. I can

656
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 2: hear you, And soon the people who knock down these

657
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: buildings will hear all of us, you know. In other words,

658
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 2: there were going to be ramifications. That was clear but

659
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: also in the days following, people started coming up to us.

660
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 2: And the first couple I thought, this is weird, you know,

661
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 2: like have you seen this person? It's like, why are

662
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 2: you asking me? And that became a flood of people.

663
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 2: These people were so desperate to try and find their

664
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 2: loved ones. You know, they were coming up to average

665
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 2: journos because they put all these stretches out in hospitals

666
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,959
Speaker 2: thinking they were going to get survivors and I don't

667
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 2: know that they even got one. I think there may

668
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 2: be a couple of people, you know, got out of there,

669
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 2: but just so many people that that kind of put

670
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 2: a human face to it, and I think that's important

671
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: in what we do numbers. You know, three thousand dead,

672
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 2: that's that's an easy figure. It's not an easy figure,

673
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 2: but that's a figure, right, and these are actual people,

674
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 2: So to be able to put the faces of the

675
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 2: of the pain what these people were going through, just

676
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 2: and again and again and again. I was a journo

677
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 2: from Australia. You know, please, we're that desperate. Have you

678
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 2: seen them? So that's kind of how it transpired, and

679
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: then it rolled into the aftermath where the likes of yourself,

680
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 2: you know, came into it. After about three or four

681
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 2: weeks on the ground in New York City, we rolled

682
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 2: into Washington, d C. Where George W. Bush from memory

683
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 2: gave a speech to Congress and it was kind of

684
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 2: a call to war. Really they were going to punish

685
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 2: the Taliban. And that rolled into Iraq and that that

686
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 2: kind of dictated that the next probably four or five

687
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 2: years for me covering the build up into the war

688
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 2: in Afghanistan, which was pretty quick, and then you know,

689
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 2: the going into into Iraq as well, and you know,

690
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 2: weapons of mass destruction.

691
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 3: Argument, does it take a toll in?

692
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 2: You do?

693
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: You just not give yourself time to overthink, over analyze.

694
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 1: And I suppose I do it as a great defense mechanism.

695
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: You know, I just keep myself busy. I try not

696
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: to become a busy fool, of course, but you know

697
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: that keeping myself busy and keeping myself active and keeping

698
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: myself in the game really helps me just to sort

699
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: of move on to the next task and not forget.

700
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: Like I said before, but you know, to process, I

701
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,919
Speaker 1: suppose I haven't got time to process it to really

702
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: sink in and have that sort of psychological and emotional

703
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: sort of effect where you know, you're drained and you

704
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: can't function.

705
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to push on, and you have to

706
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 2: push on. There's no room for emotions, not to say

707
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 2: you're not feeling it. I remember coming back and we're

708
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 2: away for quite a period of time, and I remember

709
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 2: snapping at my wife, and I think that was as

710
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 2: a result of what happened. But kind of the effects

711
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 2: of what I saw that day really didn't impact me

712
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 2: until much later. Like, I find it really hard to

713
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 2: watch that vision now. I find it when I went

714
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 2: back to New York for other reasons. I found the sirens,

715
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 2: which almost constant in New York City of police sirens.

716
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 2: I found that quite triggering. I still can't those beeping

717
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 2: sounds of the firefighters. How do we cope? I'd, you know,

718
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 2: we kind of meet at the bar, and I guess

719
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,439
Speaker 2: alcohol becomes a bit of a I don't think we're

720
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 2: problem drinkers, but we'd you know, we'd sit around and

721
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 2: you know, natter about stuff and you know.

722
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,479
Speaker 1: Joke, you have a good Yeah, we've done the same

723
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: in the military. You know, as soon as we got

724
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: off of operations and we had a bit of our

725
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 1: and r you know, we'd go and get tattoos, and

726
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 1: you know, and and and drink drink booze. I remember,

727
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: you know, every time I got back from a six

728
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 1: month deployment or any type of sort of operational deployment,

729
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: my wife just used to leave a couple of hundred

730
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: pounds on the side. So go into the house, drop

731
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: my bags off, grab the couple of hundred.

732
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 3: Pounds which was on the kitchen side, and you.

733
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 1: Know that'd be me for two three days with the guys,

734
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: just you know, just having a bit of a bit

735
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: of a sort of press Yeah, do you compress and

736
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: then you know you're back in it. And it.

737
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 3: Does work.

738
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: And I suppose you know, I'm not saying if it's

739
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: right or wrong, you know it's but it does work

740
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 1: for us to be able to go back into that

741
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: high pressured environment cooker where you're just going to face

742
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 1: it all again.

743
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I guess from my perspective, we just had

744
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 2: to keep rolling. You know, everything was moving so fast,

745
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 2: and at that stage, I was only correspondent the network

746
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 2: had in America, so I was responsible for everything. So

747
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 2: while September eleven and the aftermath was happening, there are

748
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 2: other stuff that was going on as well. So we

749
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 2: just had to keep moving. I guess that's that's how

750
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 2: we coked.

751
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't go away, does it, Because didn't you

752
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: go back like ten years later and see the sort

753
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: of the memorial as well?

754
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 3: Did you did you do a story on that?

755
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: If you look back to the two different times, the

756
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: two different environments are two different situations. Maybe that must

757
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: have been car that must have been that must have

758
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: messed with your head?

759
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 2: It did we go back, Well, we went back for

760
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 2: the sixth month anniversary, the one year anniversary, the two

761
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 2: year anniversary, and they you know, on the anniversary they

762
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 2: ring a bell and go through the role call of

763
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 2: the Dead. Even the first year of the anniversary, you know,

764
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 2: it still very much they hadn't been able to get

765
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 2: all the wreckage out of the World Trade Center, so

766
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 2: it's still very much a crime scene, if you like.

767
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 2: So we were confronted with that repeatedly. So it wasn't

768
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 2: like we went just went back for the tenth anniversary,

769
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 2: but we started to speak to firefighters whose battalion was

770
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 2: completely wiped out, to the loved ones of Australians. I

771
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 2: think ten or eleven Australians died. You know, we spoke

772
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 2: to a lovely lady whose husband was in I think

773
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 2: it was in the second tower struck, the first tower

774
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 2: to come down, and she was communicating with him, and

775
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 2: you know, the last communications were quite haunting, you know,

776
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 2: trying to stay safe. And she watched it on TV

777
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 2: come down. Can you imagine that? I mean, it just

778
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 2: blows my mind. So this stayed with It still stays

779
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,439
Speaker 2: with me to this day.

780
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: And is there any moments that you have an emotional purge,

781
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: you know, maybe shed a couple of tears, take a

782
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: deep breath, or you just keep rolling, right, You just

783
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 1: keep rolling, Mike. Yeah, And I love that when you

784
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,479
Speaker 1: said that, you know, you keep rolling because we say,

785
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: you know, you just got to keep moving. You've got

786
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: to move, stay low, and move fast.

787
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 2: In the military, Yeah, well it goes back to my

788
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 2: must start at the Bendigo Advertiser with those salty old journals.

789
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 2: You know that they would drilled into me there's no crime,

790
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 2: there's no journalism. Isn't for cry babies yet, probably not

791
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 2: the right attitude, but that's what I was drilled into me.

792
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that arms you very well. It's the

793
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: same with the military, and you know, and it's not.

794
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily about not crying. I suppose it's just

795
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: utilizing your emotions to your advantage, not letting them take

796
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 1: control of you.

797
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 3: Because the moment you expose the emotions.

798
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: As well, people can take advantage of that, use that

799
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: against you.

800
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 2: You know.

801
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: I suppose it's you know, in a job like that,

802
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: and very much like in the job like myself is is.

803
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 3: Just taking full control of your emotions, right.

804
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 2: You have to stay in control and because you can't

805
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 2: function without it. I hate the emotion of panic, and

806
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 2: I've seen it a lot, but it delivers nothing but

807
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 2: mistakes in my mind, you know. You know, I've had

808
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 2: a cameraman who thought we're going to die and the

809
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 2: battlefields of Libya, and I'm like, mate, just please calm

810
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 2: the fuck down. You panic when I panic, so yeah,

811
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 2: it's conious you're going to end up getting us killed.

812
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 2: So I just calm down, please. I also said it

813
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 2: to my dear dad, who I took stupidly to Hurricane

814
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 2: Katrina aftermuth He was in the back of the car

815
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 2: and Dad panicked and I said, just keep your eye man.

816
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 2: Not to say I'm a hero, but I was like,

817
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 2: I don't need any panic.

818
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. If it does get us, we cuddle each

819
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 3: other and we're we go together. There you go. That's

820
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 3: the best I can give you.

821
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:14,879
Speaker 2: Mike.

822
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 1: I'm jump on quite a segue here, because you've covered

823
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:23,720
Speaker 1: multiple celebrities, and you covered the death of Robin Williams.

824
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: Is there a stand out celebrity? And again, whether it's

825
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: it's a death that you've covered or whether it's a

826
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: story that you've covered, is there a standout sort of

827
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: celebrity that comes to mind when it comes to covering

828
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 1: a story.

829
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't love Hollywood. Covering Hollywood. I thought it

830
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:51,399
Speaker 2: was quote Donald Trump, fake. It wasn't my favorite part.

831
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 2: I used to say that it was the thing I

832
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 2: had to do to do the thing I wanted to do.

833
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 2: But I had a lot of interaction with stars, not

834
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 2: even just prefer personally because I lived in Melibour.

835
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 1: You know, just said so mate, the things I had

836
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: to do to do the things I want to do,

837
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:09,439
Speaker 1: to do the things I want to do, the things

838
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: to do the things I want to do.

839
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 2: Now, that's the way I looked at it. And you know,

840
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 2: for example, I missed. I ended up going to the

841
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 2: just to jump off for a second end up going

842
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 2: to the the uprising in Libya and instead of going

843
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 2: to another Red carpet for the Oscars. I would have

844
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 2: much rather have been in Libya than the Oscars Red

845
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 2: Carpet by a long stretch. But the death of Robin Williams,

846
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 2: that was, Yeah, that was troubling because you saw such

847
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 2: an effervescent kind of guy that you knew who was

848
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 2: so talented, but you knew he was so flawed. I

849
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 2: also covered the death of Michael Jackson, and that was interesting.

850
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 2: So I'd seen the progression of Michael Jackson because I

851
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 2: was also adding trial for his molestation trial, and I

852
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,760
Speaker 2: was actually he came out. I don't know if remember

853
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 2: we came out day one. He'd been in trouble because

854
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 2: he turned up. Lady came out and he jumped on

855
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 2: top of the car and started dancing on top of

856
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 2: the car. This is it. He's outside the courthouse where

857
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 2: he's been accused of molestation of a young boy, which

858
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 2: he ended up getting off. But the fans were crushing it.

859
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 2: So I'm like, well, this man, you know, I was

860
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 2: a fan of he's a fan of his music. I'd

861
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 2: send him turn up to the funeral of the Begs.

862
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 2: So I'd seen him a couple of times and not

863
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 2: great connection, but then to turn around and then here

864
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 2: is he's dead, and to follow that story through because

865
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 2: that kind of stands out to me as a celebrity story.

866
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 2: And on the flip side, you know, I was lucky

867
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 2: enough to meet people like George Clooney, you know who.

868
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 2: I just think he's the ultimate kind of celebrity. He's

869
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 2: the guy that I'd like if I was going to

870
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 2: be a celebrity. He's the guy that i'd want to be.

871
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 2: But I had it, you know, brushes with celebrities that

872
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 2: you know that I just you know what, Dick.

873
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,240
Speaker 3: I know exactly how you feel.

874
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,760
Speaker 2: I won't name them, but some of them are You're really.

875
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 3: Disappeared name and shame.

876
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 2: No, you know you think you'd think I really liked you,

877
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 2: but now I just know you're an asshole. And so

878
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 2: it was it was interesting.

879
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Michael Jackson's death that that well probably the

880
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 1: last megastar HM to to to exist, right, How interesting

881
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: was that to to to follow that story?

882
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 2: Well, the appetite for that story was incredible and and

883
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 2: the way it kind of unfolded the tragic way he died,

884
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 2: you through being administered and an anesthetic, and kind of

885
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 2: it kind of came weirder and weird, much like his

886
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 2: life was, really, but the outpouring of grief towards him

887
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 2: was astonishing. But you know, he his world had started

888
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 2: to crumble and that kind of all became so obvious.

889
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 2: I was just reading a story today actually about how

890
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 2: much Daddy was in five hundred million dollars and now

891
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 2: he's the state's worth two billion. But he was in

892
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 2: a lot of trouble. You know. We went to the

893
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 2: Neverland Ranch where they thought they were going to hold

894
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 2: the funeral and he'd lost it. And we went to

895
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 2: the Staple Center where the memorial was held, and you know,

896
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 2: his children spoke, and yeah, it was it was a

897
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 2: massive story. I'd also cover Whitney Houston's sudden passing as well,

898
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 2: so it's kind of the two sides of Hollywood.

899
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 1: Well, Mike, you've certainly been there, done it, and told

900
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:45,240
Speaker 1: the story and got the T shirt as Wow, it's amazing.

901
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 3: I listened.

902
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 1: I'd love to keep you on for another hour. But

903
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: you've written a book called News Cowboys Now First and Foremost.

904
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 3: Why the title?

905
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's probably potentially controversy, but it was the nickname

906
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 2: that we tongue in cheek gave ourselves because we felt

907
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,800
Speaker 2: like we were riding off into new adventures all the time,

908
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 2: often underprepared, not really knowing what we're going to do,

909
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 2: what we're going to be confronted by. So we were

910
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 2: the news cowboys. We were cowboys by name. But I

911
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,839
Speaker 2: hate hate. I want to just reinforce that we took

912
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 2: what we did very seriously, so we weren't cowboys in

913
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 2: the nature of what we did. We just, you know,

914
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 2: we just felt like it was a it was a

915
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 2: tongue in cheek nickname.

916
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 1: What would you say to anyone, you know, wanting to

917
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: get into journalism and sort of the modern day journalism

918
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 1: now where people are jumping in as independents, and you know,

919
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: have you got any advice for people you know that

920
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: were like you, you know, that loved traveling, want you know,

921
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 1: want to seek the truth. And but how and how

922
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: hard is it to tell the truth?

923
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 2: It will look it can be confronting. I meant, you know,

924
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 2: try and because often the truth is hidden and people

925
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 2: don't want you to find out the truth. So you know,

926
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,399
Speaker 2: you have to push hard for it for people wanting

927
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 2: to get in. I'm still a traditionalist. I still believe

928
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 2: in mainstream media. You know, people say it's dead. Our

929
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 2: news audience is up twenty percent this year, so there

930
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 2: is still an appetite for what we do. I fundamentally

931
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 2: hold that to my core. It's changing the way people

932
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 2: are absorbing what we do. It's not necessarily through the

933
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 2: antennay and TV, but still what we do is important

934
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 2: to people, I believe. So I would encourage somebody who's

935
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 2: done it, you know, to get in the traditional method

936
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:35,439
Speaker 2: a newspaper, radio, a television and just work hard and

937
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,720
Speaker 2: just bloody work hard. There's no substitution for hard work.

938
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 2: I wasn't a natural at this at all, and you

939
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 2: can say whatever I've achieved is based on just persistence

940
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 2: and hard work.

941
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, persistence and hard work, and also having that stiffer

942
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,839
Speaker 1: upper lip. You know, not everything's going to go your way.

943
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 1: You're going to uncover things that aren't pleasant, and.

944
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 2: You're going to fall and make mistakes, and you know,

945
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 2: just the nature of what happens.

946
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 1: So and what's next to you. Then, Mike and you

947
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 1: mentioned about seeking the truth. Do you think that's just

948
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: ingrained in you now, and are you going to carry

949
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 1: on doing that.

950
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 2: Until you take your last breath? Yes, well, I don't

951
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 2: know that I want to die on the job, but

952
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 2: it may. You know what, Mate, listening from what I've

953
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 2: read and what been speaking to you, you're not giving

954
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 2: up anytime, Zoo. No, No, I've still have fighting me. No. Look,

955
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 2: I think it's important to what I did when we

956
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 2: just covered the mushroom murder trial, and I would spend

957
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 2: a week down there doing that. I mean, I'm still

958
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:45,760
Speaker 2: very much an active journalist. This book is just about

959
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 2: what I've done so far. It's not the end of

960
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 2: the road. I just thought it was I like the

961
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 2: fact that give people the taste of what happens behind

962
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 2: the scenes, what it takes to do what we do.

963
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 2: So my focus, hopefully in the next month or so,

964
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 2: is so get the word out about this book and

965
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 2: you know, hopefully it's well received, and then I'm going

966
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 2: to continue doing what I'm doing at the moment. I'm

967
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:09,919
Speaker 2: a newsreader at Channel seven and that's what I hope

968
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 2: to continue doing.

969
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 3: Mike, it's been amazing speaking to you.

970
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: Good luck with everything that you do here on in.

971
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 2: Thanks Anne, I really appreciate having me on great chatting.

972
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 1: Mike's book News Cowboys is out now and you can

973
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 1: catch them presenting seven News in Melbourne. Thanks for joining

974
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: me on this episode of head Game. If you enjoyed

975
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:30,720
Speaker 1: this episode, please share it.

976
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 3: With a friend. I'm at Middleton. See you again next time.