1 00:00:03,460 --> 00:00:06,420 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:06,730 --> 00:00:09,379 Sean Aylmer: It's fascinating to think that if the pandemic had hit 3 00:00:09,470 --> 00:00:12,270 Sean Aylmer: 10 years ago, it would've been very difficult to shift 4 00:00:12,270 --> 00:00:14,810 Sean Aylmer: to a work from home model. If it had hit 5 00:00:14,940 --> 00:00:18,489 Sean Aylmer: 20 years ago, it would've almost been impossible. The big 6 00:00:18,489 --> 00:00:21,720 Sean Aylmer: difference is technology, the connectivity that allows us to work 7 00:00:21,950 --> 00:00:27,520 Sean Aylmer: from almost anywhere, and the cloud technology that makes collaboration possible. But now, 8 00:00:27,550 --> 00:00:29,900 Sean Aylmer: 18 months down the track, it's time for business to 9 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,760 Sean Aylmer: consider the way forward. It's almost inevitable that many businesses will 10 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,559 Sean Aylmer: adopt a hybrid approach. A mix of working from home 11 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,640 Sean Aylmer: and office hours underpinned by technology. Luke Clark is the 12 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,970 Sean Aylmer: Chief Executive of Canon Business Services, a supporter of Fear 13 00:00:43,970 --> 00:00:46,470 Sean Aylmer: and Greed. We're all familiar with Canon, a company with 14 00:00:46,470 --> 00:00:50,450 Sean Aylmer: more than 80 years experience in technology. Canon Business Services 15 00:00:50,530 --> 00:00:54,270 Sean Aylmer: is about the future. Working with companies to combine technology 16 00:00:54,270 --> 00:00:58,500 Sean Aylmer: and processes, to improve productivity and engagement. Luke Clark, welcome 17 00:00:58,500 --> 00:00:58,930 Sean Aylmer: to Fear and Greed. 18 00:00:59,500 --> 00:01:00,590 Luke Clark: Thanks, Sean. Great to be here. 19 00:01:00,870 --> 00:01:03,250 Sean Aylmer: Would we have been able to do what we're doing 20 00:01:03,250 --> 00:01:05,520 Sean Aylmer: now 10 years ago? Let alone 20 years ago? 21 00:01:07,830 --> 00:01:10,220 Luke Clark: It would've been tough wouldn't it? I think maybe go 22 00:01:10,220 --> 00:01:12,260 Luke Clark: back a couple of decades when we were so office 23 00:01:12,260 --> 00:01:15,520 Luke Clark: bound and dependent on physical location. With not a lot 24 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:17,459 Luke Clark: of collaboration systems that's for sure. To be able to 25 00:01:17,459 --> 00:01:20,500 Luke Clark: bring businesses to life through something like the pandemic. And 26 00:01:20,500 --> 00:01:23,980 Luke Clark: I think with collaboration technology only just emerging at that 27 00:01:23,980 --> 00:01:28,790 Luke Clark: point, no iPhones to support from a smartphone perspective. And 28 00:01:29,170 --> 00:01:32,339 Luke Clark: I think also culturally and from a leadership perspective, very 29 00:01:32,420 --> 00:01:35,119 Luke Clark: traditional leadership at that point in time, probably more focused 30 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:39,950 Luke Clark: on leadership by sight rather than by outcome, let alone 31 00:01:40,220 --> 00:01:44,010 Luke Clark: flexible working and work- life balance. I think is very 32 00:01:44,010 --> 00:01:46,459 Luke Clark: different and today is so different in that regard. 33 00:01:47,390 --> 00:01:50,250 Sean Aylmer: It's a really interesting point. Lots of people who have spoken about COVID, 34 00:01:50,250 --> 00:01:53,890 Sean Aylmer: fast forwarding the use of technology and collaboration tools by 35 00:01:53,890 --> 00:01:56,870 Sean Aylmer: a decade or so, but you mentioned culture there. Is 36 00:01:56,870 --> 00:01:59,790 Sean Aylmer: it the same? The fact that COVID has actually fast 37 00:01:59,790 --> 00:02:02,669 Sean Aylmer: forwarded how people manage people as well? 38 00:02:02,670 --> 00:02:05,790 Luke Clark: I think so. I think we used to manage by 39 00:02:05,790 --> 00:02:08,180 Luke Clark: sight, you had your team around you and you could 40 00:02:08,180 --> 00:02:11,760 Luke Clark: inspect and talk to them and understand where they're at, where now 41 00:02:12,010 --> 00:02:15,390 Luke Clark: we've really had to shift to that outcome- based leadership approach. 42 00:02:15,610 --> 00:02:19,330 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Do you think when you talk about this certainly pre- COVID and 43 00:02:19,750 --> 00:02:23,739 Sean Aylmer: then throughout COVID, often it's a lot of the international companies and the 44 00:02:23,740 --> 00:02:26,330 Sean Aylmer: technology companies like Canon, who are a long way in 45 00:02:26,330 --> 00:02:30,260 Sean Aylmer: front in terms of managing staff, maybe it's because they're 46 00:02:30,260 --> 00:02:34,010 Sean Aylmer: across so many geographies and distances. Do you think it 47 00:02:34,010 --> 00:02:37,470 Sean Aylmer: has actually been easier for big companies and particularly technology 48 00:02:37,470 --> 00:02:40,710 Sean Aylmer: companies like Canon to do it compared to some of 49 00:02:40,710 --> 00:02:42,810 Sean Aylmer: the smaller operators and more localised operators? 50 00:02:43,470 --> 00:02:45,820 Luke Clark: I think so from probably some of the investment and 51 00:02:45,870 --> 00:02:48,450 Luke Clark: technology was in place that some of the smaller local 52 00:02:48,450 --> 00:02:53,720 Luke Clark: businesses didn't have, but really I think where businesses are 53 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,290 Luke Clark: successful is in those relationships with customers, employees, and that's 54 00:02:57,290 --> 00:02:59,290 Luke Clark: really the pointy end of the business. And I think 55 00:02:59,330 --> 00:03:03,450 Luke Clark: both international businesses and local businesses have been challenged with 56 00:03:03,450 --> 00:03:06,940 Luke Clark: building those relationships with employees and customers during the pandemic, 57 00:03:07,470 --> 00:03:09,430 Luke Clark: not just local businesses. 58 00:03:09,870 --> 00:03:14,419 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. So companies moved very quickly and big technology companies 59 00:03:14,419 --> 00:03:18,300 Sean Aylmer: enabled companies to move quickly. The model that we have 60 00:03:18,310 --> 00:03:22,700 Sean Aylmer: now is that the model that you think will be the 61 00:03:22,700 --> 00:03:24,669 Sean Aylmer: same in two or three years time, or do you 62 00:03:24,669 --> 00:03:28,230 Sean Aylmer: think there's still a bit of evolution to go in 63 00:03:28,230 --> 00:03:30,660 Sean Aylmer: the next few years in terms of how a company's 64 00:03:30,660 --> 00:03:33,750 Sean Aylmer: run, how people are managed, how they deal with clients, 65 00:03:33,750 --> 00:03:34,430 Sean Aylmer: that type of thing? 66 00:03:34,770 --> 00:03:36,870 Luke Clark: Yeah. I think there's probably a bit of a balance still 67 00:03:36,870 --> 00:03:40,550 Luke Clark: to happen. And we saw the positive effects where employees were able 68 00:03:40,850 --> 00:03:42,810 Luke Clark: to prove that they could work from home. And as 69 00:03:42,810 --> 00:03:46,700 Luke Clark: a consequence, there's probably been a short- term productivity gain, 70 00:03:47,140 --> 00:03:49,240 Luke Clark: but on the flip side and the negative side, I 71 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:53,230 Luke Clark: think without that connection and collaboration, that we've really been 72 00:03:53,230 --> 00:03:58,040 Luke Clark: challenged around idea generation and innovation. And so how do 73 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:02,050 Luke Clark: we now balance that as leaders and get that flexibility 74 00:04:02,050 --> 00:04:05,070 Luke Clark: versus connection and collaboration right. So I think there's still 75 00:04:05,410 --> 00:04:07,890 Luke Clark: some balancing to happen as we come out of the 76 00:04:07,890 --> 00:04:09,880 Luke Clark: lockdowns and pandemic to get it right. 77 00:04:10,210 --> 00:04:11,140 Sean Aylmer: But we have come a long way? 78 00:04:11,870 --> 00:04:14,620 Luke Clark: Oh, absolutely. I think so. You know, sometimes when you're 79 00:04:14,620 --> 00:04:18,020 Luke Clark: forced into situations, you evolve more quickly and I think we've seen 80 00:04:18,620 --> 00:04:21,339 Luke Clark: that happen. And in scenarios where we didn't think it 81 00:04:21,339 --> 00:04:24,820 Luke Clark: would work remotely for employees, it's been proven that it can. 82 00:04:24,830 --> 00:04:28,349 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Now the cloud is one of those terms which 83 00:04:28,820 --> 00:04:31,820 Sean Aylmer: five years ago, we'd all heard of without really knowing 84 00:04:31,820 --> 00:04:35,440 Sean Aylmer: what it was. And today, most of us operate, be 85 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,520 Sean Aylmer: it their email accounts or their work accounts via cloud 86 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:43,299 Sean Aylmer: based services. Have most businesses embraced the cloud at this point? 87 00:04:43,770 --> 00:04:45,930 Luke Clark: I think it's a bit of an evolution. I think the 88 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,300 Luke Clark: majority of organisations are using the cloud in one way, shape 89 00:04:49,300 --> 00:04:52,020 Luke Clark: or form, whether they're embracing it is still to be seen. 90 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,330 Luke Clark: And I think seeing stats like Gartner saying that cloud 91 00:04:55,330 --> 00:04:58,770 Luke Clark: growth will be in the market growing by 20% year 92 00:04:58,770 --> 00:05:00,930 Luke Clark: on year from this year to next year. So I think there're 93 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:06,260 Luke Clark: still opportunities. Continuity is one, where systems have been able 94 00:05:06,260 --> 00:05:09,950 Luke Clark: to stood up remotely and easily businesses have been able 95 00:05:09,950 --> 00:05:13,479 Luke Clark: to work through the pandemic because of cloud with data 96 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,779 Luke Clark: that follows them around rather than being office based as 97 00:05:15,779 --> 00:05:20,020 Luke Clark: we spoke about earlier. But also it being a platform 98 00:05:20,020 --> 00:05:22,580 Luke Clark: for growth and agility if you look at external factors 99 00:05:22,580 --> 00:05:26,410 Luke Clark: like growing your business and standing up new capability quickly 100 00:05:26,410 --> 00:05:29,839 Luke Clark: and testing it and innovating and being competitive. And then 101 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,570 Luke Clark: if that doesn't work, turning it off with really limited risks, 102 00:05:32,570 --> 00:05:34,310 Luke Clark: especially from a capital investment. 103 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,160 Sean Aylmer: Luke, I'm going to sound really ignorant here, but sort 104 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,660 Sean Aylmer: of operating in businesses that have been in the cloud for a while. I 105 00:05:40,660 --> 00:05:44,810 Sean Aylmer: can't imagine not being in the cloud. Are there disadvantages of it? I 106 00:05:44,810 --> 00:05:47,910 Sean Aylmer: mean, we seem to be beyond the security concerns. What 107 00:05:47,910 --> 00:05:49,610 Sean Aylmer: are the disadvantages of operating the cloud? 108 00:05:50,110 --> 00:05:55,930 Luke Clark: Look I think there can be disadvantages, not every scenario 109 00:05:55,930 --> 00:06:01,099 Luke Clark: is solved by cloud or publicly. And I think as leaders, 110 00:06:01,150 --> 00:06:05,410 Luke Clark: we need to be careful and choose the scenarios that 111 00:06:05,410 --> 00:06:08,490 Luke Clark: best suit our business from a total cost of ownership perspective. 112 00:06:08,610 --> 00:06:13,720 Luke Clark: We're seeing some organizations fall into pitfalls around unexpected costs 113 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:18,650 Luke Clark: and bill shock as it's known, and getting that balance right 114 00:06:18,650 --> 00:06:22,029 Luke Clark: between what's the right solution for your organisation that may 115 00:06:22,029 --> 00:06:25,330 Luke Clark: not always be cloud, it often is, but it's not always. 116 00:06:25,740 --> 00:06:27,950 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Luke, stay with me. We'll be back in a 117 00:06:27,950 --> 00:06:28,170 Sean Aylmer: minute. 118 00:06:33,300 --> 00:06:36,810 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Luke Clark CEO of Canon Business Services. 119 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,659 Sean Aylmer: Now something else that you've highlighted is automation, in things 120 00:06:40,660 --> 00:06:44,450 Sean Aylmer: you've written previously, is the idea of automation as one 121 00:06:44,450 --> 00:06:47,880 Sean Aylmer: of the main business processes that technology has helped to 122 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,080 Sean Aylmer: unlock. What sort of automation are you talking about? And 123 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,770 Sean Aylmer: then I'm just sort of interested in the cultural aspects 124 00:06:53,770 --> 00:06:54,430 Sean Aylmer: around that too. 125 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:59,089 Luke Clark: Yeah. So for us, automation is focused on solutions around 126 00:06:59,089 --> 00:07:05,330 Luke Clark: Robotics Process Automation or Workflow Automations and some machine learning 127 00:07:05,450 --> 00:07:09,990 Luke Clark: capability. So taking organizations along a transformation journey and really 128 00:07:10,140 --> 00:07:13,410 Luke Clark: pulling out repetitive tasks and making them more efficient or 129 00:07:13,410 --> 00:07:18,090 Luke Clark: improving customer experience. The employee angle is an interesting one. 130 00:07:18,090 --> 00:07:21,340 Luke Clark: I think as long as organizations are taking a strong 131 00:07:21,940 --> 00:07:24,830 Luke Clark: change management approach to that, and that is taking the 132 00:07:24,830 --> 00:07:28,940 Luke Clark: employees along the journey. Why are we making this transformation? 133 00:07:28,940 --> 00:07:31,350 Luke Clark: Why is it beneficial to the business? And what does 134 00:07:31,350 --> 00:07:33,890 Luke Clark: it mean for you? Then they're going to be much 135 00:07:33,890 --> 00:07:37,830 Luke Clark: more successful in those implementations. And we're seeing that with 136 00:07:37,830 --> 00:07:42,000 Luke Clark: our customers that take those softer aspects and the organizational 137 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,740 Luke Clark: change management approach, getting much better outcomes and a much 138 00:07:45,740 --> 00:07:48,800 Luke Clark: more engaged team overall. 139 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,760 Sean Aylmer: And the reality is that often automating some of those 140 00:07:53,180 --> 00:07:57,679 Sean Aylmer: more repetitive aspects of roles actually creates more interesting work 141 00:07:57,890 --> 00:08:01,250 Sean Aylmer: for others anyway. And rather than lose jobs, you actually 142 00:08:01,250 --> 00:08:02,630 Sean Aylmer: can build whole new businesses on it. 143 00:08:03,110 --> 00:08:07,140 Luke Clark: Yeah. Or grow more efficiently is what we are seeing. So a 144 00:08:07,140 --> 00:08:12,010 Luke Clark: financial services' customer of ours was challenged with processing applications 145 00:08:12,010 --> 00:08:15,450 Luke Clark: for customers with speed and accuracy. And we implemented a 146 00:08:15,450 --> 00:08:19,679 Luke Clark: solution with them that really had those repetitive tasks removed 147 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,891 Luke Clark: and enabled their employees to focus on improving customer experience overall. 148 00:08:22,891 --> 00:08:28,410 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Okay. So what about the security challenges of the way we work now? 149 00:08:28,460 --> 00:08:31,010 Sean Aylmer: There's a lot of noise about it and we hear 150 00:08:31,020 --> 00:08:35,220 Sean Aylmer: lots about cyber security and increased risks that come with 151 00:08:35,220 --> 00:08:38,660 Sean Aylmer: remote working. If I'm a business and I'm thinking about 152 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:40,870 Sean Aylmer: the long- term hybrid model, how do I factor that 153 00:08:40,870 --> 00:08:41,309 Sean Aylmer: into it? 154 00:08:41,710 --> 00:08:45,050 Luke Clark: Yeah it's a big area, hot topic, that's for sure. And 155 00:08:45,470 --> 00:08:50,380 Luke Clark: remote working has really expanded the IT attacks surface for 156 00:08:50,380 --> 00:08:53,860 Luke Clark: all organizations. You've got people working differently and remotely in 157 00:08:53,860 --> 00:08:57,900 Luke Clark: different scenarios. And so that coupled with increased volumes and 158 00:08:57,900 --> 00:09:01,510 Luke Clark: sophistication of attacks, it's challenging. And I think for us, 159 00:09:01,510 --> 00:09:04,490 Luke Clark: what we're seeing the biggest challenge, outside there's plenty of 160 00:09:04,490 --> 00:09:07,710 Luke Clark: technology solutions to support a business. But the biggest challenge 161 00:09:08,270 --> 00:09:11,660 Luke Clark: is employee awareness and education. They're really that last line 162 00:09:11,660 --> 00:09:17,770 Luke Clark: of defence and really for most businesses, security isn't their 163 00:09:17,770 --> 00:09:20,679 Luke Clark: core business. So I'd be looking to find the right 164 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,110 Luke Clark: partner that can understand your business and deliver a risk- 165 00:09:24,110 --> 00:09:27,390 Luke Clark: based security model that really, really works for you and 166 00:09:27,390 --> 00:09:31,220 Luke Clark: gives you that protection and comfort in such a complex area. 167 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,610 Sean Aylmer: Okay. And then again, to some extent that comes down to workplace 168 00:09:34,610 --> 00:09:36,290 Sean Aylmer: culture as well that people are actually thinking about it. 169 00:09:36,890 --> 00:09:39,829 Luke Clark: That's right. I think for CEOs and especially get such 170 00:09:39,830 --> 00:09:44,770 Luke Clark: board level attention now, really that culture, that information security 171 00:09:44,770 --> 00:09:47,830 Luke Clark: is important. It's not a secondary thing. It is an 172 00:09:47,830 --> 00:09:50,280 Luke Clark: important piece to protect your information asset. 173 00:09:50,750 --> 00:09:55,290 Sean Aylmer: It's interesting talking to someone like you, Luke, who is steeped in technology, 174 00:09:55,690 --> 00:09:59,780 Sean Aylmer: but everything we've spoken about this morning, you talk about, 175 00:09:59,830 --> 00:10:02,650 Sean Aylmer: it's not just technology, it's culture and technology together. 176 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,450 Luke Clark: Yeah, absolutely. Businesses lives and breathes by their culture. And 177 00:10:07,450 --> 00:10:11,140 Luke Clark: so getting your culture right as a foundation is your 178 00:10:11,140 --> 00:10:15,120 Luke Clark: most important thing. Technology will support that. You know, technology will be 179 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,069 Luke Clark: the glue, but it's the culture that will make it 180 00:10:17,179 --> 00:10:18,790 Luke Clark: run or not run, be successful. 181 00:10:18,790 --> 00:10:22,809 Sean Aylmer: And just one final one, we've seen businesses come a long 182 00:10:22,809 --> 00:10:26,110 Sean Aylmer: way over the last 18 months. Do you think that we'll 183 00:10:26,110 --> 00:10:29,790 Sean Aylmer: now have a period where people are kind of betting 184 00:10:29,790 --> 00:10:35,260 Sean Aylmer: down change or generally they'll be more open to change post- pandemic? 185 00:10:35,490 --> 00:10:39,370 Sean Aylmer: They'll become more agile, more willing to lean into technologies. 186 00:10:39,710 --> 00:10:41,569 Sean Aylmer: Do you think we're just going to see that opening up 187 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:43,809 Sean Aylmer: over coming years? Or do you think people will become 188 00:10:43,809 --> 00:10:45,800 Sean Aylmer: more conservative because they just need a break from it? 189 00:10:46,980 --> 00:10:50,530 Luke Clark: Yeah. I understand the 'need a break' angle. That's for sure. 190 00:10:50,530 --> 00:10:53,620 Luke Clark: But the change that had to happen during the pandemic 191 00:10:53,620 --> 00:10:57,400 Luke Clark: for survival was considerable and kind of seeing two approaches 192 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:02,240 Luke Clark: where organisations had to transform their business quickly to survive. 193 00:11:02,780 --> 00:11:06,660 Luke Clark: Whether that was getting employees working remotely overnight, or standing 194 00:11:06,660 --> 00:11:09,380 Luke Clark: up new online capability, just to be able to transact. 195 00:11:09,380 --> 00:11:12,880 Luke Clark: And those organisations are probably a little bit focused now on 196 00:11:12,910 --> 00:11:16,910 Luke Clark: how to make that more efficient and secure. Secondly, then 197 00:11:16,910 --> 00:11:20,070 Luke Clark: you've got organizations that when they did transform the speed 198 00:11:20,070 --> 00:11:24,000 Luke Clark: of transformation was so rapid and impactful that it's kind 199 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,340 Luke Clark: of set the expectation of what can be achieved. And CEOs, 200 00:11:28,450 --> 00:11:31,199 Luke Clark: I think including myself are saying, " well, how do we 201 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,719 Luke Clark: harness that energy to deal with pain points in my business 202 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,270 Luke Clark: today and make me even better and give me a 203 00:11:37,270 --> 00:11:38,280 Luke Clark: competitive advantage". 204 00:11:40,630 --> 00:11:42,020 Sean Aylmer: Yeah interesting. Luke, thank you very much for talking to Fear and Greed. 205 00:11:42,290 --> 00:11:42,770 Luke Clark: Thanks, Sean. 206 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,459 Sean Aylmer: That was Luke Clark, Chief Executive Officer of Canon Business 207 00:11:46,460 --> 00:11:49,360 Sean Aylmer: Services. A supporter of this podcast. This is the Fear 208 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,800 Sean Aylmer: and Greed Daily Interview. Join me every morning for the 209 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,380 Sean Aylmer: full Fear and Greed podcast with all the business news 210 00:11:54,380 --> 00:11:56,880 Sean Aylmer: you need to know. I'm Sean Aylmer, enjoy your day.