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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, May twenty nine. Immigration Minister Andrew Giles has

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Speaker 1: called an urgent review of the dozens of convicted criminals,

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Speaker 1: including rapists and domestic violence offenders, who've been allowed to

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Speaker 1: stay in Australia as a result of the government's changes

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Speaker 1: to migration rules. Queensland's government will ban the anti corruption

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Speaker 1: watchdog from making critical commentary about politicians who are not

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Speaker 1: convicted of a crime. That's under sweeping new laws. Revealed

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Speaker 1: exclusively right now at the Australian dot com AU. We

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Speaker 1: can't hire foreigners to build nuclear submarines and we don't

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Speaker 1: have enough locals. So how on earth is Australia going

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Speaker 1: to live up to the aucas Defense Pact. That's one

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Speaker 1: of the big questions from the Defending Australia summit in Canberra,

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Speaker 1: where spies, diplomats, top brass and politicians talked frankly about

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Speaker 1: how to keep Australia safe. That's today's story.

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Speaker 2: The nuclear submarine is the ultimate APEX predator.

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Speaker 1: Peter malinowskis is the Premier of South Australia and that

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Speaker 1: means more than anyone else. He's focused on the future

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Speaker 1: of how Australia will defend itself.

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Speaker 2: The moment a nuclear submarine enters the water, it immediately

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Speaker 2: and fundamentally tilts the balance of power in an instant

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Speaker 2: It recalibrates every geopolitical relationship around it.

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Speaker 1: Australia is committed to borrow by and then build nuclear

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Speaker 1: powered subs as part of ORCUS Strategic Pact with the

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Speaker 1: US and Britain. They'll be built and sustained in South Australia,

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Speaker 1: and they're designed to deter our enemies from attacking and

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Speaker 1: allow us to attack far beyond our shores. Nuclear powered

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Speaker 1: subs are almost silent under the water and can stay

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Speaker 1: submerged from months on end. That makes them a stealth weapon.

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Speaker 2: We are wise to acquire this power, but to achieve

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Speaker 2: this we must change our thinking about ORCUS and what

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Speaker 2: it means for our nation.

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Speaker 1: Melanowskis is talking at Defending Australia, a summon in Canberra

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Speaker 1: held by The Australian and our fellow mastheads at News

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Speaker 1: Corp Australia, including The Advertiser.

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Speaker 2: So Newport News in Virginia, where they build nuclear submarines

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Speaker 2: they've got over twenty thousand people that work there. One

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Speaker 2: thousand of those people individually have over forty years experience

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Speaker 2: building nuclear submarines themselves. One thousand people with over forty

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Speaker 2: years of experience building nuclear submarines every single day of

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Speaker 2: their working lives. Do you know how many of those

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Speaker 2: people that we have working at Osbourne or ac None.

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Speaker 1: He says. We need an entirely new workforce tens of

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Speaker 1: thousands of people to work on the submarines directly. But

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Speaker 1: that's not all.

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Speaker 2: Now, we can't employ these people as other foreign nationals

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Speaker 2: for security reasons that are well known in this room.

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Speaker 2: We can't even really poach them from the US in

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Speaker 2: the UK because that would be in breach of the

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Speaker 2: very principles that Orcus has been there to design about

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Speaker 2: uplift across the three nations. Rather than an internal poaching exercise.

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Speaker 1: That means we need to train Australians and thousands of

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Speaker 1: them will need to be recruited from other sectors.

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Speaker 2: We need sparkys, we need plumbers, we need fitters, we

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Speaker 2: need turners, we probably need butcher's bakers and candorstick makers.

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Speaker 2: And as we seek to recruit those from existing industries.

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Speaker 3: Who is going to backfill that labor.

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Speaker 1: Because if you haven't noticed, Australia already has a critical

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Speaker 1: worker shortage in sectors like construction right now.

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Speaker 2: First and foremost, Australia does not have a migration problem.

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Speaker 3: We have a housing supply problem.

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Speaker 1: That housing supply problem is why both the government and

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Speaker 1: oppositions say they need to slash migration, because Australians can't

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Speaker 1: find somewhere to.

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Speaker 3: Live without a healthy influx of skilled migrants.

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Speaker 2: Our nation is not the country that we know today,

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Speaker 2: nor will be the country we want it to be tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: So I would say to my Canberra colleagues that UCUST

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Speaker 2: must be a consideration in deliberations over Australia's skilled migration program.

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Speaker 2: But more than that, AUCUST must be con consideration in

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Speaker 2: just about every area of policy. When we think about housing,

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Speaker 2: what does it mean for ORCUS? When we think about infrastructure,

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Speaker 2: what does that mean for UCUS. When we think about education,

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Speaker 2: health and innovation policy, what does that mean for UCUS.

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Speaker 1: I sat down with Peter Melanowskis on stage at the

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Speaker 1: Defending Australia Summit on Tuesday night. The British High Commissioner

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Speaker 1: gave you and everybody else in the room today a

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Speaker 1: bit of a warning not to come poaching their staff.

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Speaker 1: You'd made the right noises about that in your speech too,

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Speaker 1: saying that that would be in breach of the spirit

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Speaker 1: of the Orcast Pact. But if you know talented British

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Speaker 1: nuclear physicists want to move to Adelaide and have a

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Speaker 1: wonderful life there, are you going to turn them down?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell a story that I probably shouldn't.

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Speaker 2: The Optimal Pathway was announced by the Prime Minister and

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Speaker 2: the British Prime Minister and the US President, and seventy

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Speaker 2: two hours later I was on the ground in Barrow

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Speaker 2: touring their facility, which is very impressive indeed, But the

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Speaker 2: most powerful part to me was actually going through their

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Speaker 2: equivalent of the Training and Skills Academy and I got

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Speaker 2: to talk to young workers learning their craft to build

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Speaker 2: the nuclear submarines in the UK. And I'm saying to them, oh,

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Speaker 2: you know, would you like to come and work in

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Speaker 2: Adelaide like Barrow? If you haven't pictured it, it's a bleak,

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Speaker 2: it's different, right, So I'm saying that these kids, you know,

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Speaker 2: like Allaid's got beaches, We've got wineries. It's a major

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Speaker 2: metropolitan city. You know, we've got lots of festivals and events.

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Speaker 2: And I said, would you can't like to come, and

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Speaker 2: one after the other saying oh, yeah, that sounds pretty good.

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Speaker 2: Stephen Smith grabbed me by the eye. We've sort of

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Speaker 2: had a quiet moment.

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Speaker 3: Grabbed me by the arm and with a degree.

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Speaker 2: Of force which you wouldn't think Stephen is necessarily capable

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Speaker 2: of with a degree of force and shut up, with

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Speaker 2: a little other word in between, shut lane up.

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Speaker 3: And he said, this isn't a part of the deal. Well,

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Speaker 3: this is a problem. And I remember that because it

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Speaker 3: was the early stages.

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Speaker 2: Of the Optimum Pathway announcement, and it is a critical

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Speaker 2: principle that we've signed up to that is not about poaching.

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Speaker 3: It is about industrial uplift.

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Speaker 2: Across the three countries, which means we have to accept

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Speaker 2: a profound responsibility that we are developing and procuring our

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Speaker 2: own workforce domestically at home, and as has been identified

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Speaker 2: in all the panels tonight, it is the fundamental challenge.

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Speaker 3: It is the single biggest risk to the program.

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Speaker 2: I think that in turn invites a nationally coordinated effort

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Speaker 2: about how we're going to develop that workforce because it's

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Speaker 2: not just about my state. This is not an industrial

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Speaker 2: policy for South Australia or Western Australia. We are at

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Speaker 2: full employment. We're not trying to work out how to

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Speaker 2: make more work. We're trying to work out how we

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Speaker 2: get the work done, and that is going to require

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Speaker 2: a lot more uplift from the Eastern States in a

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Speaker 2: way that I don't think is fully being computed.

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Speaker 3: Up until this point.

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Speaker 1: Coming up a for much Spy reveals what China really

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Speaker 1: thinks about Australia. We'll be back after this break. In

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty, as the pandemic raged, Australian journalist Chang Lai

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Speaker 1: was detained in China. He She is describing her ordeal

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Speaker 1: on Sky News Australia.

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Speaker 4: It's to make you feel isolated and bored and pained

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Speaker 4: and desperate. My experience was the first five months I

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Speaker 4: got to read books and I had a pen and

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Speaker 4: paper with which to write, and that was much less

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Speaker 4: painful than the final month of just twelve hours a

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Speaker 4: day of pure sitting and very little chance to get

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Speaker 4: up and just walk, just pace around a very little room.

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Speaker 1: Every dream was a nightmare. Almost three years later, and

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Speaker 1: following extensive diplomatic maneuvering by Foreign Minister Pennywong, Lay was

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Speaker 1: finally freed.

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Speaker 5: More than one thousand days behind bars. Today, Freedom Australian

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Speaker 5: journalist Chung Lay embraced by Foreign Minister Pennywong at Melbourne

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Speaker 5: Airport this afternoon.

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Speaker 1: Now, Chang Lai is working as an anchor on Sky News,

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Speaker 1: and on Tuesday she moderated a panel at the Defending

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Speaker 1: Australia Summit on conflicts past, present and potentially future. She

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Speaker 1: was joined by Senator Dave Sharma, Ukrainian Ambassador Vassel Marishenko,

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Speaker 1: and a former spy for the Ministry of Public Security

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Speaker 1: for the People Republic of China. We're calling him Eric

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Speaker 1: to protect his identity.

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Speaker 4: Now, two points I want to make at the top.

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Speaker 4: One is an ex con, an ex spy, two diplomats

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Speaker 4: on a stage talking freely without fear. That's what we're defending.

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Speaker 4: You know, when Eric's story came out, everyone who I.

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Speaker 1: Knew said he has balls.

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Speaker 4: So I want to ask you, Eric, what exactly did

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Speaker 4: you do or were you forced to do for the government.

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Speaker 1: Eric explained he had three main tasks as a spy,

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Speaker 1: writing intelligence reports, gathering information about opponents of the Chinese

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Speaker 1: Communist Party and dealing with targets.

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Speaker 6: But I relaxed. I have protected all the targets and

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Speaker 6: the null one had been rasted because of me, and

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Speaker 6: a lot of evenists can prove that I have my

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Speaker 6: own secret under the secret of police.

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Speaker 4: Don't know.

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Speaker 1: Chang Lai translated some of the panel's questions for Eric

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Speaker 1: and his responses in real time.

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Speaker 4: Right, and you were forced into this because you supported

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Speaker 4: a dissident movement?

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Speaker 1: Is that correct?

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Speaker 4: In the Jusula Union?

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Speaker 1: So will you hype b b it is?

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Speaker 2: What should you know?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 6: Correct?

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Speaker 1: Senator Dave Chalma jumped in, Well.

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Speaker 7: Look up. Firstly, Eric, I commend you for your personal bravery.

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Speaker 7: Must have taken a huge amount of courage. Can I

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Speaker 7: ask him in what was it that triggered your decision

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Speaker 7: to leave your employment seek asylum in the country like Australia.

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Speaker 7: Was it something you particularly asked to do? Do you

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Speaker 7: lost faith in the political system them or you had

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Speaker 7: ethical or moral concerns with what you're being asked to do?

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Speaker 6: Sure?

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Speaker 1: What he actually chose Canada first.

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Speaker 4: So on the same day he got two emails, a

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Speaker 4: rejection from Canada acceptance from Australia. He also applied to

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Speaker 4: New Zealand, but then he tossed a coin to decide

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Speaker 4: between Australia and New Zealand.

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Speaker 6: Will we some Yo Holy Year? So Jens Sushi.

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Speaker 4: Un So he's always been anti CCP Chinese Communist Party,

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Speaker 4: that's in his DNA, and he had his own secrets

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Speaker 4: in that. The first time he sought to escape, he

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Speaker 4: went to Hong Kong and sought assistance at the US

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Speaker 4: consulate and more secrets about that will be revealed in

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Speaker 4: due course. And the second escape also the Chinese secret

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Speaker 4: police didn't know about. Then he did some really like

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Speaker 4: genuine anti CCP work that started to attract the interest

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Speaker 4: of the Beijing HQ of the secret police, and that's

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Speaker 4: when he felt the danger and he started.

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Speaker 1: To plot his way out. So what you told us was.

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Speaker 4: That you were asked to collect information, to monitor and

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Speaker 4: also try to abduct Chinese distance in other countries. How

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Speaker 4: concerned should Western governments be about that?

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Speaker 1: What you're s.

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Speaker 4: So, he says that Western politicians are usually not concerned

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Speaker 4: about these behaviors. They think it's all within Chinese people,

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Speaker 4: but in fact, the CCP's attempt to control voices in

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Speaker 4: the Chinese community actually then in turn affects voting in

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Speaker 4: those countries and influences politics. So that does erode rights

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Speaker 4: in Western countries and should be something that we're all

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Speaker 4: concerned about. What does the Chinese secret police think of

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Speaker 4: Australia or those people that you worked with so meeting,

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Speaker 4: So in his dealings with the Chinese secret police, they

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Speaker 4: don't talk about Australia much, but in his engagements with

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Speaker 4: Chinese officials and others, they seem to think of Australia

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Speaker 4: as a country without sovereignty, that it's not worth fighting against.

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Speaker 4: That should there ever be a day of China US conflict,

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Speaker 4: then all they need to do is intimidate and coerce Australia,

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Speaker 4: and Australia will stay neutral until China wins, and then

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Speaker 4: Australia will obey.

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Speaker 6: See more sure and what.

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Speaker 4: To the So he's noticed that among academics and some

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Speaker 4: people in the strategy sphere that people seem to think

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Speaker 4: if there is a China US conflict, that Australia should

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Speaker 4: not take sides. And he doesn't know whether these voices

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Speaker 4: are being funded by China, but he thinks if Australia

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Speaker 4: stands by and not help the US. It's going to

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Speaker 4: be the start of Australia's nightmare.

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Speaker 1: New South Wales police say a strikeforce into the suspected

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Speaker 1: murder of missing Bromwyn Winfield is open and ongoing. She's

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Speaker 1: the subject of The Australian's new investigative podcast series, Bromwyn.

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Speaker 1: You can register to listen to the first two episodes

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Speaker 1: right now at Bronwyn podcast dot com. That's b ro

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Speaker 1: n w y n podcast dot com and join US

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Speaker 1: subscribers for all the nation's best journalism at The Australian

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Speaker 1: dot com dot au.