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Speaker 1: From the newsroom.

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Speaker 2: I used to come today.

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Speaker 3: Gooday there, I'm Andrew buck Loan.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's no secret that Australia is in the middle

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Speaker 4: of a mental health crisis and for many, especially young people,

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Speaker 4: knowing how to start the conversation is typically the hardest part.

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Speaker 4: So that's why news dot com dot Au has teamed

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Speaker 4: up with Medibank for a campaign called can We Talk.

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Speaker 4: It helps ouzzies have the most important conversation of their life.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 4: Two lads who know more about this topic than most

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Speaker 4: is radio duo Will and Woody. Will has spoken really

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Speaker 4: openly on KISSFM about living with depression, and together these

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Speaker 4: boys have brought raw, honest conversations about mental health to

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Speaker 4: the airwaves. So how do you support a mate who

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Speaker 4: is struggling and how do you keep going when the

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Speaker 4: smile isn't real?

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Speaker 3: Let's find out with Will and.

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Speaker 4: Woody joining me hour or two of my absolute faves

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Speaker 4: from the Kiss Network.

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Speaker 3: It's Will and Woody. Gooday boys, Bucky.

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Speaker 4: We are here to talk about how relationships are central

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Speaker 4: to mental health. And you two have such a strong

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Speaker 4: bond where you've really supported each other through some tough moments,

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Speaker 4: So you're the perfect guys to chat to.

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Speaker 3: Will I want to start with you.

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Speaker 4: For people who might not understand what it's like to

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Speaker 4: experience depression, how do you describe it?

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Speaker 5: Oh, that's a great question. I'd say that really, what

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Speaker 5: it is is like a power saver mode that goes

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Speaker 5: on in my head. I think the depression gets used

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Speaker 5: as a pretty broad term now to describe a bunch

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Speaker 5: of I think depression is more of a reaction rather

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Speaker 5: than actually an illness. So you've got lots of different things,

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Speaker 5: so like stress, anxiety, situational depression, all those different things

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Speaker 5: that can lead to you having a low mood. And

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Speaker 5: for me that, yeah, it almost feels like a bit

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Speaker 5: of a power saverer mode. So my head just goes

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Speaker 5: I'm too stressed right now, I'm burned out, whatever it is.

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Speaker 5: And my response to that is just to go into

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Speaker 5: stand by or low power mode for a little while

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Speaker 5: while we recuperate, because I can't handle the level that

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Speaker 5: you're going out or the stress that you're going through.

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Speaker 5: So I think that's an important distinction to make, is

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Speaker 5: that I don't think it's actually I'm sure people can

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Speaker 5: be clinically depressed. I'm sure that's still a thing but

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Speaker 5: I think for a lot of people, you get depressed

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Speaker 5: or depressive episodes as a result of something that is

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Speaker 5: going on to you, or an emotion that he's not

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Speaker 5: being listened to, or something that you're suppressing.

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Speaker 4: What do you do You remember the first time that

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Speaker 4: Will told you he was dealing with depressive episodes, and

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Speaker 4: if so, what was that moment like for you? Yeah?

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Speaker 6: I absolutely do.

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Speaker 7: But interestingly, at this stage, I don't think Will was

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Speaker 7: fully understanding of.

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Speaker 6: What was going on as well.

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Speaker 7: So what I actually saw Bucky was him having the

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Speaker 7: day off our radio show. This is when we were

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Speaker 7: working in person, We're doing breakfast hours, and I probably

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Speaker 7: saw on him that, you know, maybe he was a

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Speaker 7: bit off or you know, was a bit quieter that day,

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Speaker 7: and he went straight home and I can remember going

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Speaker 7: over to his house and he was trying to explain

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Speaker 7: to me that he couldn't get off the bed, and

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Speaker 7: I remember there was a pretty confronting interaction to be

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Speaker 7: going through that. You know, I've seen my mate with

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Speaker 7: you know, red eyes obviously from tears, crying, and then yeah,

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Speaker 7: him effectively saying that he physically was unable to get

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Speaker 7: off the bed.

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Speaker 6: And unfortunately, Bucky.

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Speaker 7: In that moment, my understanding of depression was so minimal

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Speaker 7: that my response to him was, mate, I get it.

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Speaker 7: This one time before going to school, I had this

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Speaker 7: massive pimple on my bum and I also.

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Speaker 6: Couldn't get off the bed because.

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Speaker 7: I was just feeling really bad about this pimple on

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Speaker 7: my ass. And thankfully I will He laughed at my

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Speaker 7: attempt to understand what it was going through, which, funnily enough,

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Speaker 7: you know, I look back on that moment and go, sure.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I had no idea and I had no

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Speaker 7: understanding of what he was going through. But I think

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Speaker 7: one of the key things that you can do for

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Speaker 7: someone who is going through a depressive episode is a

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Speaker 7: just being there, just really being with You don't have

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Speaker 7: to solve it for them, you don't have to immediately

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Speaker 7: rip them out of it. It's just like I'm here

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Speaker 7: and you can stay depressed and you can stay sad,

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Speaker 7: but I'm physically here with you. And then the real

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Speaker 7: you know, the icing on the cake there is if

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Speaker 7: you can get a little giggle out of them, then

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Speaker 7: I think you did a pretty good thing.

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Speaker 4: Well, how hard is it to open up, whether it's

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Speaker 4: to a mate like Woody or to your national radio audience,

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Speaker 4: which you've done on several occasions, about your mental health.

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Speaker 5: I mean, this is the catch twenty two Bucky about

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Speaker 5: the whole thing. Really, we did a We've created an

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Speaker 5: app called share my Mood a few years ago which

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Speaker 5: was just specifically aimed at people helping people open up.

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Speaker 5: When I say open up, opening up is really difficult.

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Speaker 5: That'll take you know, maybe years of therapy and you know,

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Speaker 5: lots of conversations to get you to get in touch

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Speaker 5: with the thing which is creating a depressive episode for you.

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Speaker 6: But I think what we're talking.

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Speaker 5: About here is really just letting someone know at a

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Speaker 5: very basic level that you are going through a tough

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Speaker 5: time and you're not handling what is going on through

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Speaker 5: your head.

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Speaker 6: I mean, and I've been fortunate. I got lucky.

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Speaker 5: I remember there was one night I was living in

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Speaker 5: Perth and I was driving to the beach with some

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Speaker 5: very silly ideas in my head and a car full

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Speaker 5: of burrs, And luckily a friend of mine called me

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Speaker 5: and she picked up on me that things weren't right,

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Speaker 5: and I admitted to her what I was going to

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Speaker 5: the beach to think about going to do. But she

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Speaker 5: read that on me. I didn't tell her that, and

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Speaker 5: I was trying to hide it.

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Speaker 6: So I look back on that moment and think to myself,

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Speaker 6: it's very easy for me to sit here and.

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Speaker 5: Say to people, you know, talk about how you're feeling

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Speaker 5: and talk about what's going on, when I know that

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Speaker 5: that's the last thing you want to do. And that's

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Speaker 5: what I'm saying that this is the catch twenty two.

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Speaker 5: It's the thing that you know is going to get

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Speaker 5: you out of it is telling someone is sharing your load.

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Speaker 5: But that is the hardest thing to do in the

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Speaker 5: world because the way that depression works is that you

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Speaker 5: feel like you are a burden. You feel like you

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Speaker 5: are not worthy of people's love, so you don't want

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Speaker 5: to tell them what is going on with you, and

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Speaker 5: then as a result, you bury it deeper, and it

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Speaker 5: gets worse, and it gets worse, and it gets worse.

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Speaker 5: So it's this perfect horrific cycle that self perpetuates and

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Speaker 5: is the reason that suicide's the number one killer of

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Speaker 5: men under the age of sixty.

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Speaker 4: But it does actually help to share, right, Like, once

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Speaker 4: you get it off your chest, do you feel an

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Speaker 4: immediate sense of relief?

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Speaker 7: I feel.

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Speaker 3: In my experience, yes, I can't speak for everyone.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, in my experience, yes, there is definitely relief there.

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Speaker 5: And I think maybe on top of that, it's also

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Speaker 5: knowing that you've created a channel there. So as soon

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Speaker 5: as you sort of open up that channel, you're like, oh,

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Speaker 5: you didn't turn away from me, like I told you

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Speaker 5: how I showed you who I am and that was

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Speaker 5: really scary for me. But you still love me, you know,

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Speaker 5: and kind of like seeing that.

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Speaker 6: As soon as you.

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Speaker 5: See that, you're like, oh, Okay, maybe I'm not such

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Speaker 5: a fuck up and maybe I am still lovable like this.

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Speaker 5: And I think then, you know, the burden kind of

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Speaker 5: falls on, as Woody touched on earlier, the people that

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Speaker 5: are there for you. If you are playing that role

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Speaker 5: for someone that it's just so critical that you don't

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Speaker 5: try and do anything, then just let them know that

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Speaker 5: you're listening and let them know that you love you.

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Speaker 5: You know. If it needs quite as urgent action, then sure,

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Speaker 5: take necessary steps. But I think just really just that

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Speaker 5: softness to be with them and let them know they

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Speaker 5: can keep coming back to you, will, you know, hopefully

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Speaker 5: mean that they do it more often.

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Speaker 4: You're pretty much described like the coming out process.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly what I war.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and that's what we was talking about, Bucky. What

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Speaker 6: did you think.

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Speaker 4: So since you guys had that first chat all those

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Speaker 4: years ago, have you developed a kind of regular checking

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Speaker 4: routine or is it just more instinctive now because you

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Speaker 4: do know each other so well.

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Speaker 7: I think there's definitely an instinctive element to it, Bucky.

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Speaker 7: But also we're pretty good at like text messages, especially

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Speaker 7: around the radio show. And I think in a way

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Speaker 7: that we're lucky in the regard that we have a

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Speaker 7: kind of forced check in really because if one of

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Speaker 7: us isn't in a good spot, then there really needs

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Speaker 7: to be a conversation between the two of us about

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Speaker 7: what's going to happen for that day of work. Yeah,

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Speaker 7: So there's been a multitude of examples over the years

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Speaker 7: of now.

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Speaker 6: Just that text message.

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Speaker 7: And again, I think a text message is a lot

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Speaker 7: easier than saying something to someone's face as well. Like

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Speaker 7: I think if you're someone listening to this who is

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Speaker 7: agreeing with what we'll saying around that difficulty to actually

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Speaker 7: like express how you're feeling, writing that text message can

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Speaker 7: be a great first step, and I think to go

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Speaker 7: even further with that, I think if you write the

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Speaker 7: text message, you can even say within that text message, hey,

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Speaker 7: you know I'm not feeling great at the moment, or

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Speaker 7: I'm feeling a bit off. I'm not ready to talk

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Speaker 7: about this in person, but I just wanted you to know,

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Speaker 7: and that's a first step.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, great tip there from Woody. Listen, stick around in

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Speaker 4: just a moment. I'm going to get the boys to

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Speaker 4: share the little things they do to make each other

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Speaker 4: laugh when one of them is feeling down.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back.

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Speaker 4: I'm chatting to the hosts of Kiss FM's national drive show,

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Speaker 4: Will and Woody.

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Speaker 3: Boys.

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Speaker 4: I've got a bit of a light question for you here.

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Speaker 4: What is something that each of you do for each

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Speaker 4: other that instantly lifts your mood. It can be as

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Speaker 4: silly as you want.

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Speaker 6: It's a good question, Becky, good question. I think.

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Speaker 7: I think Will probably finally that we've had so many

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Speaker 7: shared experiences together. Man, that's the that's the beautiful thing

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Speaker 7: about having a best friend that you've gone through so

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Speaker 7: much with. So I know that Will's Will's pretty good

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Speaker 7: at you know, if I'm feeling a bit flat, He's

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Speaker 7: pretty amazing at just recollecting a moment that we've shared,

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Speaker 7: so you know, like whether it's you know, wearing robes

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Speaker 7: to an interview with Hugh Jackman and hopefully screwing up

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Speaker 7: the interview, or you know that the time that we

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Speaker 7: were we thought Phil Dunfie, the star of Modern Family,

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Speaker 7: couldn't hear us because we were having audio issues, so

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Speaker 7: we started saying how much would actually like to take

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Speaker 7: him to bed?

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Speaker 6: And he heard the entire conversation.

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Speaker 7: So, like, you know, Will has a great way of

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Speaker 7: bringing that up and that will take me to a

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Speaker 7: happy place, which I think is really special and it

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Speaker 7: even can be I don't know if your I think

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Speaker 7: all iPhones do it is I'm not very good with technology,

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Speaker 7: but you know how your iPhone sends your memories like

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Speaker 7: a photo pop up. Will's pretty good at and not

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Speaker 7: only just with me, but I think with all of

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Speaker 7: his friends he's pretty good at like getting the memory

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Speaker 7: photo and then sending it, which again, it's just it's

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Speaker 7: a really clever way of taking someone to a happy time,

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Speaker 7: which I think can make you out of a funk.

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Speaker 2: What about for you, Will, it's pretty I actually we

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Speaker 2: had a pretty was having a rough time early this year, Bucky,

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Speaker 2: which is you know, not uncommon for me, and you know,

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Speaker 2: again very good that I can.

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Speaker 5: Talk about it, but it was pretty special. Actually, Woods

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Speaker 5: actually said to me, I sort of told him what

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Speaker 5: was going on and how hard it was, and you know,

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Speaker 5: Woods is incredibly selfless in that respect. I mean, for him,

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Speaker 5: you know, that's just an opportunity to behave like a

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Speaker 5: dickhead because he knows he can make me laugh.

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Speaker 6: So I've just given him the.

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Speaker 5: Carte blanche to do whatever he wants, which he didn't

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Speaker 5: need anyway. But he actually just said to me, mate,

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Speaker 5: you know, well, look, we've got two hours to be

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Speaker 5: on ed together. Don't try and bring any extra fun

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Speaker 5: or energy because I know that's you know, really hard

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Speaker 5: for you at the moment. And that's probably a good

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Speaker 5: comment in general. Actually, if someone is sort of really struggling,

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Speaker 5: often the trying forcibly sort of getting them to be

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Speaker 5: funny or be happy can kind of send them the

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Speaker 5: other way. I've had some pretty funny experiences where I've

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Speaker 5: tried to put on positive songs for myself and I've

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Speaker 5: actually just like.

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Speaker 8: Write even more because I'm my god, this is not

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Speaker 8: making me happy. Whereas Woods was just like, mate, just

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Speaker 8: don't worry about trying to lift yourself up or be

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Speaker 8: anything that you're not at the moment.

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Speaker 5: Just be yourself and just let me be the dickhead.

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Speaker 5: And that's just such a pleasure to be around. It's

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Speaker 5: a real relief, particularly at work as well, you know,

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Speaker 5: as anyone sort of carying any sort of mental health

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Speaker 5: stuff and you're at work, and you know, you tell

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Speaker 5: someone at work like that might be a good tip

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Speaker 5: for people, because then you've got something in your corner

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Speaker 5: at work which is just you know, it's often the

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Speaker 5: place that we really firmly fasten our masks on is

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Speaker 5: at work, and that's where your mental health can really slip,

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Speaker 5: is when you're really trying to pretend to be something

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Speaker 5: that you're not. And I think that's when this gets

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Speaker 5: This stuff gets really g nally is just not accepting

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Speaker 5: what's going on. So to have someone at your work go, look, mate,

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Speaker 5: I know you're not going through a good time.

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Speaker 6: Let me be a dickhead.

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Speaker 5: You know, laugh if you want to, but you don't

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Speaker 5: laugh if you don't need to.

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Speaker 6: But I've got you is pretty huge.

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Speaker 5: Man.

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Speaker 4: We're here to talk about relationships, Will, How important is

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Speaker 4: your relationship with Woody when it comes to looking after

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Speaker 4: your mental health, well enormous.

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Speaker 5: I mean, as I just said, I mean having you know,

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Speaker 5: my guy in my corner, you know, away from work

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Speaker 5: and then at work while we're doing a show. We've

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Speaker 5: got a pretty beautiful special relationship. And I think, you know,

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Speaker 5: a lot of people look at us and go, oh.

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Speaker 6: They're so lucky.

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Speaker 5: Oh, they're so lucky, you know, to have each other.

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Speaker 5: And I've heard that, like, you know, you're so lucky

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Speaker 5: to have Woody, And I'm sure he would he use

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Speaker 5: the same thing, like fucking hope he has the samething

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Speaker 5: I've never heard, but I think it's probably a good

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Speaker 5: point to stress that, Like, it wasn't always like this

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Speaker 5: for us either, Like you know, we went to the

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Speaker 5: same school together, and like you know, every single boy

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Speaker 5: who's ever grown up as a teenager with someone else,

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Speaker 5: you guarantee that it's it's going to be grounded initially

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Speaker 5: in some pretty stereotypical ladziness. But we went there with

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Speaker 5: each other, you know, we were like, Okay, well, this

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Speaker 5: is our life and this is the only relationship that

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Speaker 5: we're ever going to have with each other. Though we

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Speaker 5: can make this as good or as bad or as beautiful,

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Speaker 5: or as open or as you know, as simple as

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Speaker 5: we like. And I think, you know, one of the

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Speaker 5: benefits about me getting depression was that I had to

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Speaker 5: open up completely to Woody and you know, vulnerability begets vulnerability,

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Speaker 5: so then you know, naturally he opens up to me.

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Speaker 5: And then all of a sudden you're sharing this beautiful

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Speaker 5: space and your friendship only deepens. And then I think

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Speaker 5: it's really important to point out to people that you

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Speaker 5: don't lose the fun stuff.

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Speaker 6: We get all the lazziness.

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Speaker 5: Like you know, we still you know, send each other

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Speaker 5: photos about Dick.

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Speaker 1: And that's goin to speak, Our relationship is more intimate

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Speaker 1: than most.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, why am I missing out on this stuff? I

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Speaker 3: can do a little try and guess who who?

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Speaker 6: You know?

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Speaker 7: That's a great news dot com.

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Speaker 3: You guys speak about this topic so well.

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Speaker 4: And I understand you've got a new podcast coming out

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Speaker 4: where you touch on some of these themes.

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Speaker 3: Tell me more about that.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, nice. The new pod is called We'll get to that.

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Speaker 5: We were just discussing some pretty big themes, some pretty

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Speaker 5: big questions which can be a bit hard hitting, and

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Speaker 5: just a reminder that we can do it in a

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Speaker 5: fun way. And interestingly, the first question is why is

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Speaker 5: it's so hard to take a day off work, which

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Speaker 5: is the question that Woods asks me immediately after I

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Speaker 5: took a mental health day. So yeah, you'll hear all

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Speaker 5: about exactly this stuff on the Brand Brandy season and

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Speaker 5: we'll get to that, which you can get where you

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Speaker 5: get your podcasts.

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Speaker 4: Will and Woody thank you so much for giving up

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Speaker 4: your time and I'll be listening to you on the

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Speaker 4: Kiss Network four to six pm weekdays.

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Speaker 3: Thanks lads, you're a legend.

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Speaker 6: Thanks Mabell led you to the thread.

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Speaker 3: By the way, please do God I absolutely love those boys.

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Speaker 4: Before I let you go, a reminder that if you

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Speaker 4: need help, you can call Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen.

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Speaker 4: And if you just want some tips on how to

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Speaker 4: have tough conversations with someone who is struggling, or if

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Speaker 4: you're struggling yourself, head to can we Talk dot com.

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Speaker 4: You'll find a bunch of information there that we put

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Speaker 4: together with Medibank. Al Right, thank you so much for listening.

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Speaker 4: I would chat to you again on Monday.

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Speaker 1: Follow us, subscribe to from the newsroom wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your podcasts.