Speaker 1: I'll get a team. Welcome to another bloody installment a year.
Speaker 1: Project's Tiffany and Cook, it's Craig, Anthony Harper, it's us,
Speaker 1: it's you. What are we going to do for our
Speaker 1: two thousandth episode?
Speaker 2: Oh well, I know to hope there's some cake personally
Speaker 2: cake or a cookie or something for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: If I should have my first beer.
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe that could be the two thousand celebration.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. If there's a company that wants
Speaker 1: to put up fifty grand for trademark, I'll have my
Speaker 1: first beer. Oh this is the first beer.
Speaker 3: Ever, dude.
Speaker 1: If the company wants to put up fifty grand, I'll
Speaker 1: have a beer. I'm pretty sure you won't be getting
Speaker 1: that money, mate, But if you never know, stranger things
Speaker 1: that happened. I've never had a beer in my life.
Speaker 1: Cigarette drugs. I'm the most boring fucker you'll talk to
Speaker 1: you today, that is for sure.
Speaker 3: But that's officially straight edged Craig.
Speaker 1: That is I'm Australia one eighty super boring. Look up boring.
Speaker 1: You'll just see me just looking back at you. Hey,
Speaker 1: how are you me?
Speaker 3: Good? Good?
Speaker 2: Yeah? As I said back from Melbourne yesterday so we've
Speaker 2: just moved house over the weekend and yeah, just settling
Speaker 2: them on your surroundings today.
Speaker 1: So all is well and you're in tourm But did
Speaker 1: I get that right when you told us off there?
Speaker 2: Yeah, based in Tormbart, Trademark's based in Darra sort of
Speaker 2: just outside him, switched towards Brisy, and tax is based
Speaker 2: in Tuam.
Speaker 1: Give people a little bit of a snapshot of you
Speaker 1: and then we'll talk about Dan and then we'll talk
Speaker 1: about trade. Mutt Mutt, But who you mate? Give us
Speaker 1: a snapshot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm Chippy by trade. Born and bred central
Speaker 2: West Queensland, Longreach. Grew up on sheep and cattle stations
Speaker 2: out there, went to boarding school from grade six in
Speaker 2: Toomber actually so six and seven year in Twente where
Speaker 2: and then onto boarding school down at Brisbane. When worked
Speaker 2: in the territory for a couple of years on a
Speaker 2: station out there. I did a year of college in
Speaker 2: Geelong and then back out to the territory and then
Speaker 2: after that finished up and started my mature age carpentry
Speaker 2: apprenticeship in Brisbane.
Speaker 3: And yeah that's.
Speaker 2: When I met Dan, so co found a best mate
Speaker 2: on a building site in twenty end of twenty fourteen
Speaker 2: and Dan, he's from Sydney.
Speaker 3: He moved to Brisbane. Yeah, what was it?
Speaker 2: So it must have been about fifteen nearly fifteen years ago,
Speaker 2: I reckon and he just wanted to expand his knowledge
Speaker 2: and find basically a boss that he was really keen
Speaker 2: to work for and become a better carpenter. And he
Speaker 2: packed an overnight bag to come up and work for
Speaker 2: a bloke about fifteen years ago and never went back. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: we met on a job site. Long story short, Yeah,
Speaker 2: trade mutin tax, which I'm sure we'll touch on today.
Speaker 1: Well, what did you think you're going to be when
Speaker 1: you grow up or what did you want to be?
Speaker 1: What did you aspire to be when you were ten?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I remember telling Dad I wanted to be a sharer
Speaker 2: once and he nearly beat it out of me. So yeah, no,
Speaker 2: I never never went down the idea of becoming sh mate.
Speaker 1: That's an actual job. That's an actual job, dude.
Speaker 2: So I can't really remember anything particularly being like I
Speaker 2: want to do that when I was young. More when
Speaker 2: I got when I was finishing high school, I definitely
Speaker 2: wanted to manage stations in the Northern Territory and be
Speaker 2: on big cattle places and then yeah, those things sort
Speaker 2: of changed. And yeah, I've always been kind of obsessed
Speaker 2: with business and how people one make a living, but
Speaker 2: to create you know, pretty cool organizations and things that
Speaker 2: do some pretty cool things, and it just kind of
Speaker 2: be in my obsession, I suppose for they're kind of
Speaker 2: like eight to ten years.
Speaker 1: We're just did a podcast and we're talking with a lady,
Speaker 1: doctor Lillian Najard, who's a clinical psychologist, and we're talking
Speaker 1: about creativity and we kind of identified the fact that
Speaker 1: even building a business, you would think, oh, that's very
Speaker 1: you know, you need a business mindset, you need a
Speaker 1: logical strategic mindset, which you do. It's kind of a
Speaker 1: particular intelligence. But it's also creative because you take something
Speaker 1: in your head and then you turn the thing in
Speaker 1: your head into a thing in the world, the thing
Speaker 1: that only you can see, and then a bunch of
Speaker 1: other people can see it. And that all that came
Speaker 1: out of the nothingness, you know, that came out of
Speaker 1: a concept I thought, an idea creativity.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, you are right.
Speaker 2: And when you put it like that, because I often
Speaker 2: say meet personally often say that I'm not creative, but yeah,
Speaker 2: there is.
Speaker 3: There is definitely a level of creativity. I think it's
Speaker 3: more just.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I can draw a house and a stick figure,
Speaker 2: but I think I'll put my level down to that
Speaker 2: is what creativet is. But yeah, there's definitely more more
Speaker 2: levels to it, without a doubt.
Speaker 1: We also spoke about problem solving being a huge part
Speaker 1: of creativity because you know, you're constantly I'm sure you're
Speaker 1: constantly figuring shit out, making shit up, solving problems as
Speaker 1: you go, right, I mean I set up the first
Speaker 1: personal training center in Australia and the second and the third. Right,
Speaker 1: So I was working in an industry that didn't exist, Like,
Speaker 1: there was no PT industry, there was no insurance, there
Speaker 1: was no accreditation, and I was fucking every day just
Speaker 1: making it up. And then eventually you develop ideas and
Speaker 1: systems and practices and protocols that work, and then other
Speaker 1: people get on board and then oh, now this is
Speaker 1: the thing that was not a thing, the thing that
Speaker 1: was just a mental construct is now a thing that
Speaker 1: people are interfacing within the real world. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting how it all, Yeah, it all
Speaker 2: comes together. What was that book's sapiens.
Speaker 3: Have you read that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've read a bit of it. I've got it
Speaker 1: and I haven't finished it, but.
Speaker 3: Yes, in there it just talks about business.
Speaker 2: It's just like it's just a you can't even explain
Speaker 2: what it is like, it's literally just an idea.
Speaker 3: But then everybody build around that idea.
Speaker 2: There's no trade Mud, there's no thing. You can't go
Speaker 2: and touch it, you can't talk see it. But it's
Speaker 2: just this yeah, idea that it's been created, and there's
Speaker 2: story and a journey behind it and sort of a
Speaker 2: vision for it.
Speaker 3: It's interesting how it kind of comes together.
Speaker 1: Before you tell us about the genesis or the origin
Speaker 1: story or about it and the journey. Tell us what
Speaker 1: trade mud is?
Speaker 2: Trade Mud it's a social impact work where company by
Speaker 2: Trades for traders make a range of funky high veers
Speaker 2: and other products to help spark conversations and create larger
Speaker 2: connections among the blue collar community and a cohort to
Speaker 2: in turn allow more help seeking behavior and encourage more
Speaker 2: people to seek early intervention mental health counseling.
Speaker 1: I'm wearing a shirt right now and on the back
Speaker 1: it says this shirt is a conversation starter.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I can see you've got a flannel on there.
Speaker 2: I can see the wine pocket looks great.
Speaker 1: You have you ever seen anything looking so good in
Speaker 1: one of your products?
Speaker 2: Be honest, it's all color coded with the room you're
Speaker 2: in and everything. You look fantastic?
Speaker 1: Am I handsome? What was the I know the answers
Speaker 1: to some of these questions, but our listeners don't so
Speaker 1: tell us about the origin story, like what was the
Speaker 1: spark that lit the trademart fire? Like what where did
Speaker 1: it come from?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So originally Dan and I were, as I said, working
Speaker 2: on job sites in Brisbane. We were spending a lot
Speaker 2: of time together because he was just starting work for
Speaker 2: the same builder as I was.
Speaker 3: I was starting my apprenticeship and he came on as a.
Speaker 2: Carpenter and we were lumped together as a new two
Speaker 2: new guys. He spent just long hours in the brizzy
Speaker 2: sun talking about things we want to do when we're
Speaker 2: not doing carpentry.
Speaker 3: And one of those one of those ideas was why
Speaker 3: has no one changed to work where?
Speaker 2: Was no one ever done anything with high of his
Speaker 2: work where or just standing work where? It just seemed
Speaker 2: odd that no one had done anything that was just
Speaker 2: an idea we've had a conversation about one day. And
Speaker 2: then at the end of twenty fifteen, Dan lost one
Speaker 2: of his best mates to suicide one weekend, and there's
Speaker 2: a ted talk online that that Dan talks about in
Speaker 2: more depth, but in short, you know, Dan had been
Speaker 2: chatting to his mate on the Thursday, learned that he
Speaker 2: was starting Mature Age Company apprenticeship on the Monday, and
Speaker 2: you Saturday never started that started that job. And sort
Speaker 2: of in the weeks and months it followed, you know,
Speaker 2: Dan shining up to work, putting on the brave face,
Speaker 2: me trying to figure out one how to support my mate.
Speaker 2: I never knew Dan's mate that took his life, but
Speaker 2: it was just kind of that gray period after that
Speaker 2: to try and you know, I suppose navigate.
Speaker 3: That time and do it kind of good.
Speaker 2: And then yeah, as I said that, the months after that,
Speaker 2: we're just conversing about why was no one really talking
Speaker 2: about this?
Speaker 3: What was suicide?
Speaker 2: What we're talking about there, It's like, why is no
Speaker 2: one talking about this suicide? Then how it was happening,
Speaker 2: and then looking into the statistics and being like, Okay,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of blokes that are doing this and
Speaker 2: a lot of these blokes that are doing it are
Speaker 2: fourteen to forty four, Like holy shit, like we're twenty
Speaker 2: We were twenty six and whatever it was at that stage.
Speaker 3: So we're like, oh, look crap, like we're right in
Speaker 3: the middle of this.
Speaker 2: And again, these weren't conversations any of us were having,
Speaker 2: our mates were having. And so I looked at the
Speaker 2: mental health space and just realized that, wow, it is
Speaker 2: dark and gloomy. And I remember when we're even having
Speaker 2: conversations around people around suicide or mental healtheople would often
Speaker 2: be saying, oh, you can't say that, or that might
Speaker 2: trigger someone, or this is and you're.
Speaker 3: Like, holy fuck, well what can you say?
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, you're like, no, wonder, no
Speaker 2: one's saying anything because no one knows what they can
Speaker 2: or can't say, and everyone thinks that if you say
Speaker 2: one thing, all of a sudden, everyone's just going to
Speaker 2: start taking their own life. It's like, holy fuck, that's
Speaker 2: not reality. And then looking at the way that's mental
Speaker 2: health lack of a better term. Organizations sort of were
Speaker 2: marketing themselves.
Speaker 3: Out there, you know, the.
Speaker 2: Bustshelter at the dimly lit room and the bloke there
Speaker 2: with his head in his hands.
Speaker 3: It's kind of like trying to personified depression.
Speaker 2: And you know, as we were saying, it's like, well, fuck,
Speaker 2: that's not what it looks like like. People may feel
Speaker 2: like that, but you know, you don't know. People are
Speaker 2: walking around fine, and then all of a suddeny're not here,
Speaker 2: so it definitely doesn't look like that. Yes, and so
Speaker 2: if it doesn't look like that, people aren't going to
Speaker 2: want to associate with that. So again it's kind of
Speaker 2: like we were like, well, it's not inviting. There's this
Speaker 2: big gap between there's this big issue these people doing stuff,
Speaker 2: and then the middle ground, which is everyone else. It
Speaker 2: was like, well, how do you kind of fill that pipeline?
Speaker 2: And basically look back to the work where peace learn
Speaker 2: about what social enterprise was and profit for purpose and
Speaker 2: we were like, shit, we can start a business, get
Speaker 2: us off the tools, do the work or idea we had,
Speaker 2: but also have a social change purpose to it where
Speaker 2: we can make a real change to society and actually
Speaker 2: start some conversations about mental health and well being. And
Speaker 2: so that's basically where Trademark started. And that was yeah,
Speaker 2: fifteenth March twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: It's amazing mate. Good for you. What I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: sure there's been a million, But what are the key
Speaker 1: takeaways not for the business, but for you just as
Speaker 1: a bloke in terms of what do you know now
Speaker 1: that you didn't know? I'm sure you could talk about
Speaker 1: that for an hour, but you personally, like, what do
Speaker 1: you now get that you had no fucking idea about?
Speaker 3: Man? Where do you even start?
Speaker 2: Like we've I mean, I say, were you because of
Speaker 2: Dan and I have been on this whole learning and
Speaker 2: the get go right, like like we've learned just so much.
Speaker 2: It's not it's not only about us trying to navigate
Speaker 2: and figure out the mental health landscape and how to
Speaker 2: reframe it and make it more appealing to more people,
Speaker 2: but also our own mental health and well being while
Speaker 2: trying to grow a business higher staff and Dan often
Speaker 2: talks about how that you know, we're not immune to
Speaker 2: it either, Like we go through the same stresses and
Speaker 2: everything as everyone else. It's just because the work of
Speaker 2: mental health doesn't mean.
Speaker 3: We've got it nailed. Far from it.
Speaker 2: A lot of the time, it's like it's it's a
Speaker 2: it's a constant, a constant learning curve.
Speaker 3: And a hyper learning.
Speaker 2: Curve, as I was saying, and I mean yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean for me personally that the biggest thing I've learned
Speaker 2: is that you can you can get a lot, you
Speaker 2: can get a fair bit done over a couple of years.
Speaker 2: Like the amount of stuff can actually get done is
Speaker 2: quite quite incredible. And the journey that we've been on
Speaker 2: since we arded to where we're at now, the thing
Speaker 2: that I've learned the most is like where our time
Speaker 2: and just consistency and continually, like you were saying earlier,
Speaker 2: problem solving, Yeah you can.
Speaker 3: You can really move some mountains for sure.
Speaker 1: One did you get any That's a weird question, but
Speaker 1: I just I wonder did you get any pushback from
Speaker 1: people who are like, no, where the professionals leave it
Speaker 1: to us, fuck off with you and your shirts?
Speaker 2: No, Because we were never saying that we knew anything right.
Speaker 2: We were putting power to the people. Really, We're just
Speaker 2: trying to empower people to have more ability to have
Speaker 2: a conversation. That's all it was. And to be honest,
Speaker 2: if we could make workshirts that were funky, Larry and
Speaker 2: fun we were hoping people are going to buy them
Speaker 2: for that anyway. But it also has this message behind it,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of like I suppose who gives a
Speaker 2: crap they make toilet paper and it's good give probits away,
Speaker 2: and so in a way we were doing that and
Speaker 2: what we've gotten who now is realizing really the impact
Speaker 2: the shirts are having is far profound than the fifty
Speaker 2: percent of the profits we give to TAX every year.
Speaker 2: Trade that as a community is doing and as a
Speaker 2: brand is doing really unbeknowns to us, is just incredible.
Speaker 3: Like the amount of people that are.
Speaker 2: Having conversations at hard conversations and ranges of interaction with
Speaker 2: people daily which they otherwise wouldn't have because of a
Speaker 2: bit of cotton with a funky print on it and
Speaker 2: a logo across the back is wild.
Speaker 3: It's so cool.
Speaker 1: What is tax?
Speaker 2: So Tax is a professional text and call counseling service
Speaker 2: for trade.
Speaker 3: His truck is.
Speaker 2: Farmers, Rural blue collar workers and their loved Ones. Provides
Speaker 2: free and ongoing early intervention mental health counseling.
Speaker 3: And it was created.
Speaker 2: After Dan and I quickly realized that the shirts were
Speaker 2: starting conversations and then people were going, Okay, I've had
Speaker 2: a conversation with a mate, or I've had a conversation
Speaker 2: and I feel as though I need more support.
Speaker 3: Where do I go?
Speaker 2: And again to that kind of gap that we were
Speaker 2: speaking to earlier, it was the well, yeah, well fuck,
Speaker 2: where do you go? I said, well, you don't lifeline
Speaker 2: because you're not about to kill yourself. You're just not
Speaker 2: well right, And it's like it was this big gap.
Speaker 2: And so for Dan and I we were like, Okay,
Speaker 2: well we've got to go and get on go to
Speaker 2: a GP, get on a mental health plan, find a
Speaker 2: counselor or a psychologist.
Speaker 3: Book in blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: And so that was the process that he and I
Speaker 2: had to go through to get our psychologists. And we're like,
Speaker 2: it's an arduous task, it's expensive, and as we know,
Speaker 2: if it's not easy, most people won't do it.
Speaker 3: So if we want people to be able.
Speaker 2: To access professional support early, they aren't getting.
Speaker 3: To the point of crisis.
Speaker 2: Fuck, we're going to make this as easy as possible.
Speaker 2: And so we just thought, why don't we just hire
Speaker 2: some psychologists or counselors and just if the phone rings,
Speaker 2: they can answer it.
Speaker 3: And so that was the genesis basically of tax and
Speaker 3: it's yeah, grown.
Speaker 2: Into an organization that was after being founded in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty now has yeah, twelve counselors and they're supporting over
Speaker 2: five hundred and fifty clients a quarter on average four sessions.
Speaker 2: Seventy five percent of our calls are male. And the
Speaker 2: big point of difference yet up I said earlier, was
Speaker 2: that you speak to the same counselor every time. And
Speaker 2: so we've just removed the physical, financial, and social barriers
Speaker 2: that have existed for people to access early intervention professional counseling.
Speaker 3: And it's text and call Monday to Friday. It's just
Speaker 3: as easy as.
Speaker 1: That's amazing, And they don't pay for that. People don't
Speaker 1: pay for that.
Speaker 2: No one pays for no one, no one using it
Speaker 2: pays for it. We've got fifty percent of our profits
Speaker 2: every year go into it as a range of other
Speaker 2: organizations which make up the Tax Alliance, which is an
Speaker 2: industry based funding model that people or sorry organizations fund
Speaker 2: either a full time counselor or part there off on
Speaker 2: a twelve month contract so that we can hire our
Speaker 2: base of clinicians and.
Speaker 3: Continue to provide that support to the community.
Speaker 1: That's amazing, and how do you so, how do you
Speaker 1: and I know, Dan's your best mate. But it's like
Speaker 1: when I owned my gyms, I employed, over time, hundreds
Speaker 1: of people. I had three gyms and a couple of
Speaker 1: other businesses which were all standalone businesses, and I employed
Speaker 1: a few friends and sometimes that was great and sometimes
Speaker 1: it wasn't. How do you how do you and your
Speaker 1: best mate go working? But do you ever punch on
Speaker 1: or do you ever crack the ships?
Speaker 3: We've never never thrown a punch.
Speaker 2: We've yeah, absolutely been through the ups and downs of
Speaker 2: any relationship under pressure without a doubt. We often say that, yeah,
Speaker 2: if we're going to get divorced, would have got divorced
Speaker 2: a long time ago.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're pretty good.
Speaker 2: At managing our conflict now and for where it was,
Speaker 2: I mean, we're probably at the point now in the
Speaker 2: I suppose marathon where we've ironed out the cramps and
Speaker 2: we know, like we know where the pain points already are,
Speaker 2: so you can actually jump on the on the mid logue.
Speaker 2: And their relationships are yeah, far easy to manage now
Speaker 2: than it was through the growth period because there's so
Speaker 2: much going on, Like, you know, you're not you haven't
Speaker 2: been mates that long, so you don't know each other
Speaker 2: that well personally, and you're also trying to grow business
Speaker 2: that you both don't know how to run, and you're
Speaker 2: both making decisions together or individually all the time. You're
Speaker 2: managing staff, you're managing cash flow. It's like everything is
Speaker 2: there could be going wrong, is going wrong, and you're
Speaker 2: still trying to do all that. And at the same time,
Speaker 2: you know, he's got relationships outside of work. You know,
Speaker 2: I've got married when we while starting trademark.
Speaker 3: There's just so much goes on, right, Yeah, and we've just.
Speaker 2: Been very good over the years of just learning how
Speaker 2: each other operate and how we operate the best and
Speaker 2: kind of working by ourselves the best way we can
Speaker 2: and then collaborating the best ways we can as well. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's been it's been unbelievable.
Speaker 1: And do you kind of go, hey, mate, you're really
Speaker 1: good at this. I'm not bad at this stuff. So
Speaker 1: you do you do that, I'll do this. That's the
Speaker 1: best use of our talent, time, skill and energy. Or
Speaker 1: do you go let's both do everything. How does that work? No,
Speaker 1: it is getting the most out of you both.
Speaker 2: Sorry, Yeah, you kind of just get to a point
Speaker 2: where it kind of evenly splits off.
Speaker 3: You know, Dan's very he's much more a lot more
Speaker 3: kind of I suppose.
Speaker 2: Deep thinking, a motive around brand message and tone of
Speaker 2: voice and everything like that.
Speaker 3: So he's always kind of been closer to the social
Speaker 3: media marketing side, I would say.
Speaker 2: And then and obviously he's you know as am I,
Speaker 2: but he's more of the champion of the brand because
Speaker 2: it's his story, was his mate. And then I've obviously
Speaker 2: been there to supporting through the journey of the business,
Speaker 2: and then it's kind of our story of the organization.
Speaker 2: And then yeah, I suppose on my side, I've yeah,
Speaker 2: kind of picked up the rest of it that I've
Speaker 2: enjoyed doing, which is, yeah.
Speaker 3: Sales and business development and networking and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my finance isn't the greatest, greatest thing, but someone's
Speaker 2: got to do it. So yeah, you know, we've had
Speaker 2: a we've had a pretty good even split and it's
Speaker 2: just yeah, enjoying the ride.
Speaker 1: Really, what do you reckon? Are some of the biggest
Speaker 1: misconceptions that people have about mental health in general? Like
Speaker 1: what don't what don't a lot of people understand? Do
Speaker 1: you reckon.
Speaker 3: Misconceptions?
Speaker 2: Oh, I think it's I actually think it's mental health
Speaker 2: organizations as a whole are the ones that are creating
Speaker 2: the issue for the individuals when they create statistics. Actually
Speaker 2: saw one at the airport coming home yesterday. It was
Speaker 2: like forty five percent of people have a mental health
Speaker 2: issue in their life. It's like, fuck me, It's like,
Speaker 2: no way, everyone. Every one hundred percent of humans will
Speaker 2: have a mental health issue at some stage in their life.
Speaker 3: One hundred percent.
Speaker 1: I agree. I agree.
Speaker 3: That is the sort of shit where it's like, it's it.
Speaker 2: I don't know why they do it. I just don't
Speaker 2: know why they do it. But those statistics just do
Speaker 2: more harm than good in my opinion, in a lot
Speaker 2: of ways, and really the opinion of our business, we
Speaker 2: just do not do statistics. We've never done statistics. It's
Speaker 2: like we've all got it. We've all got mental health.
Speaker 2: We need to be actively working on it. It's never perfect,
Speaker 2: it's never right. It's like it's like anything your relationship
Speaker 2: with yourself.
Speaker 3: And in your head. It's just a continuum of work
Speaker 3: that's required.
Speaker 2: And the idea that oh, some people get it and
Speaker 2: some people don't, it starts such a croc of shit.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's the main misconception is with my point, what.
Speaker 1: Do you really think? Stop fucking holding back.
Speaker 3: But it is just it is just interesting. It is interesting.
Speaker 3: That's messaging.
Speaker 1: I think. Also, like, you know, there's no three step
Speaker 1: planned right for mental health, because mental health is a
Speaker 1: million well not a million, but it's a hundred different things, right,
Speaker 1: and how it shows up for one person shows up differently.
Speaker 1: You know, someone's grieving, somebody's anxious, somebody is a fucking
Speaker 1: chronic oversleeper. Someone can't sleep because they're scared. Somebody is
Speaker 1: fucking obsesses about what everyone think of them because they're insecure.
Speaker 1: And other people you know, agoraphobic, and other people don't
Speaker 1: want to whatever, you know, they're terrified to be in
Speaker 1: a relation. Like, there's so many things that that are
Speaker 1: different expressions of mental health issues. And then even if
Speaker 1: you've got somebody with you know, if you and me
Speaker 1: had the same or very similar issue, what's going to
Speaker 1: work best for me probably won't work best for you
Speaker 1: because you're not me and I'm not you totally.
Speaker 3: There's no that's for sure.
Speaker 2: And that's like, yeah, I suppose Also a lot of
Speaker 2: the misconceptions around mental health and well being is the
Speaker 2: stuff you see on social media. The gurus out there
Speaker 2: like you gotta do this, and you got to do that.
Speaker 2: It's like no, no, no, you got to go out
Speaker 2: and try heat different things and find the thing that
Speaker 2: suits and works for you and works for you at
Speaker 2: that time, because those things change, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, if it's not serving and serving you, well,
Speaker 2: well then piss it off and try something else, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean.
Speaker 3: That's that's probably the most important part.
Speaker 1: I think. So we had a lady on a couple
Speaker 1: of times. I think her name's Rachel Hope. Is that right, Tiff?
Speaker 1: Do you remember the lady, the grief lady who wrote
Speaker 1: Lessons from Grief for anyway? It's Rachel, Yeah, anyway. She
Speaker 1: lives in coins and also a gun, and her husband
Speaker 1: died when she was thirty some two or three, and
Speaker 1: obviously heaps of stuff there, young children, husband passes away,
Speaker 1: And you know, we were talking once about how people
Speaker 1: think there's like this fucking five step or there are
Speaker 1: five steps in grief or there you know, there are
Speaker 1: four levels, and and people get in trouble for not
Speaker 1: grieving properly. Oh you're not crying? What is wrong with
Speaker 1: you? You should be crying? How about you fuck off with
Speaker 1: your theories, right, how about I don't want to cry
Speaker 1: or I don't feel like crying, or maybe I cry
Speaker 1: all the time, but not when you're around you know,
Speaker 1: it's like there's like you're doing it wrong. You know,
Speaker 1: you're doing your mental health rock box.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're going to fit in this box. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, I mean I don't know how we navigate that.
Speaker 1: And so in terms of the brand and the business
Speaker 1: and the you know, the social work that you're doing
Speaker 1: or the what you call it. It's not a social
Speaker 1: impact work. It's not a charity, but it's kind of
Speaker 1: you know, in the old days, see actually the charity,
Speaker 1: right charity? Yeah, how do you how do you figure
Speaker 1: out you know, like the next one two five years?
Speaker 1: Is it very much do it as you go organic?
Speaker 1: I mean you must have something of a vision and
Speaker 1: a strategy moving forward.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I would say that's the biggest kind of
Speaker 3: challenge for us is that.
Speaker 2: When people like you, you know, chatting earlier, it's going
Speaker 2: to like, you know, what are.
Speaker 3: You guys doing is great?
Speaker 2: And you're getting lots of pats in the back and
Speaker 2: it's all good, and lots of people are coming to
Speaker 2: lots of different ideas.
Speaker 3: As well, and we could do this, So we could.
Speaker 2: Do that, and there's a range different things we could do,
Speaker 2: and people are telling you you should do this, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. I had a phone call today
Speaker 2: with an organization that are doing something and they're like
Speaker 2: wanting to collaborate, and I mean, we could do it,
Speaker 2: but what it would do is take us away from
Speaker 2: what we do and do well with trademark, which is
Speaker 2: we make awesome work where that is making a really
Speaker 2: big difference among the blue collar community in creating connection
Speaker 2: and conversations about mental health and well being on a
Speaker 2: consistent basis. So like anytime that we're not doing more
Speaker 2: of that, well, we're really doing ourselves a disservice because
Speaker 2: that's the main thing. That's what's really got us here,
Speaker 2: And we're going to become really good at saying no
Speaker 2: and sticking to.
Speaker 3: The path and the piece to the organic growth.
Speaker 2: Which you were saying, is really important that we're going
Speaker 2: along the lines of listening to our community and where
Speaker 2: we can be better to better serve them and grow
Speaker 2: that community. I think is probably the main thing we
Speaker 2: need to be doing. And also through our learnings filling
Speaker 2: in the gaps of where there's you know, basically.
Speaker 3: A knowledge gap. And so for and I, we've like.
Speaker 2: So strongly understood that there's a gap that currently exists
Speaker 2: really between trademard and tax.
Speaker 3: There is a gap between there, and so we've got an.
Speaker 2: Organization that we're not far from launching which will be
Speaker 2: a training entity because there's a lot of businesses out
Speaker 2: there that love trademark, they love tax, but they really
Speaker 2: want us to come out and talk. So us coming
Speaker 2: out and talking is fine. But you can watch Dan's
Speaker 2: ten to fifteen minutes, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 2: you can just watch that all of it. Or we
Speaker 2: could go out and do a half day session where
Speaker 2: people can better understand themselves, better understand their workmates, better
Speaker 2: understand that everything about like, better understand who they are
Speaker 2: and the business they're in, and that will bridge the
Speaker 2: gap further between trademark and tax. And so having people
Speaker 2: with ye a better understanding of themselves and those around
Speaker 2: them is only going to be beneficial. And we can
Speaker 2: see that as like the next must do. So I
Speaker 2: suppose you're organically going with the flow, but picking up
Speaker 2: and filling the holes where we can see it and
Speaker 2: where we think we can do a good job of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, makes total sense to how do you go?
Speaker 2: Was it?
Speaker 1: Rachel Pope? Sorry, Rachel, it's been a while, it's been
Speaker 1: a minute, and I do mate a few people. I
Speaker 1: think also, you made a really good point, right, and
Speaker 1: I think that is figuring out how many things can
Speaker 1: we do really well? Because there's a point, like, there's
Speaker 1: a point where stuff just turns to shit. It's like
Speaker 1: you I used to I used to call it two
Speaker 1: things your performance threshold or your shit threshold. And with
Speaker 1: my trainers, I would literally ask them how many sessions
Speaker 1: of PT can you do per day with your clients?
Speaker 1: And all of them be great, like the best you
Speaker 1: And if you can only do three of those, then
Speaker 1: three is your limit. If you can do ten, then
Speaker 1: ten your limit. Because I think you get to a
Speaker 1: point where when things are going well, rather than consolidating
Speaker 1: or tweaking and refining, you can go, oh, let's do
Speaker 1: this as well, and then you end up doing thirteen
Speaker 1: things badly, not five things well.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, yeah for sure. And so that's kind of
Speaker 2: where we've got to with both organizations and tax especially.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like, oh, people are like oh, will
Speaker 2: you be twenty four hours? So well, we could be
Speaker 2: twenty four hours, but then we're not going to be
Speaker 2: an early intervention counting service because who's ringing a counselor
Speaker 2: for a session at two.
Speaker 3: In the morning.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, one, yeah, yes, And.
Speaker 2: So for us it's we've really yeah, got to stick
Speaker 2: to our lane and stick to our ethos of why
Speaker 2: we're doing what we are doing and stand behind that
Speaker 2: because there's lots of organizations out there that's.
Speaker 3: But I would say kind of panna to the dollar.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like, well, this is on trend, and
Speaker 2: if we do that well, then we're probably more likely
Speaker 2: to pick up more funding, whereas we're kind of going
Speaker 2: the other way where.
Speaker 3: We're like, we do what we do really.
Speaker 2: Fucking well, and so if you don't want to fund this,
Speaker 2: we're not going to change so we can get your funding,
Speaker 2: we recommend you go give you money to X, Y
Speaker 2: and Z, which is both a blessing and a curse
Speaker 2: at times. But yeah, it's just sort of sticking to
Speaker 2: our to our guns there because we just want to
Speaker 2: be the best at what we do, and we're pretty
Speaker 2: confident that we are, and we just want to do
Speaker 2: more of that.
Speaker 1: How do you manage you?
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean I like to take Well, we just
Speaker 2: had to trip. My wife and I just had a
Speaker 2: trip to Europe for four weeks.
Speaker 3: That was nice.
Speaker 2: We haven't had a break since our well proper holiday
Speaker 2: since our honeymoon six years ago.
Speaker 3: So that was really good.
Speaker 2: But in regards to me managing myself, very I'm a
Speaker 2: very big structure guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, gym in the morning, brecking.
Speaker 2: With my wife in the morning, and then yeah, into
Speaker 2: work and yeah, just not over not over committing myself,
Speaker 2: always putting time in throughout the year to take breaks
Speaker 2: either a week or two weeks here or there, got
Speaker 2: stuff outside of outside of work with mates and family.
Speaker 2: And yeah, basically I'm pretty good at switching off from work,
Speaker 2: which is good. And yeah, saying no, I'll become pretty
Speaker 2: good at saying no, that's for sure good.
Speaker 1: What are the if I get too personal ten minute
Speaker 1: fuck off? What are they? What are the alarm bells
Speaker 1: for you personally? If you feel like like if you're
Speaker 1: starting to get a little bit fried, or you're starting
Speaker 1: to be a bit five out of ten, not nine
Speaker 1: out of ten, and your body or your heart or
Speaker 1: your whatever is going hoy mate, just fucking steady on
Speaker 1: for a while. What's happening?
Speaker 2: Normally it's I Normally I just get like exhausted, like
Speaker 2: I'm just fucking routed tired.
Speaker 3: So that's probably the first one.
Speaker 2: The second one is, yeah, my fuse just gets a
Speaker 2: bit short, So that's that's a pretty telltale sign.
Speaker 3: And what else If I'm if I'm.
Speaker 2: Not if I'm not confident in myself, like, if I'm
Speaker 2: not confident that I'm going to achieve something and achieve
Speaker 2: it in the way that I want to, that's normally
Speaker 2: a telltale sign tour needs to ease up and have
Speaker 2: a bit of a break or a reframe or or.
Speaker 3: Change something up. Normally, Yeah, if I'm losing confidence, that's
Speaker 3: probably a bit of a figure or alarm bell for me.
Speaker 1: Well, mate, I won't hold you up. You're doing really
Speaker 1: good stuff. Congratulations, I heard about you, bronwin.
Speaker 3: Who on of course, of course, of course.
Speaker 1: Fucking raves about you.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, she helps us out down the warehouse, Bronze.
Speaker 1: She's great, she is great, she's one hundred and so
Speaker 1: she sent me this, which was very nice of her
Speaker 1: or whoever, but beautiful, my shirt and tell people how
Speaker 1: they can help get involved support in whatever that looks
Speaker 1: like that you guys need.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So I suppose the first thing is, yes,
Speaker 2: there's any traders, truck is, farmer's, blue collar workers or
Speaker 2: they're loved ones listening. They can access TAX Monday to Friday,
Speaker 2: eight am to ten pm four triple eight four six
Speaker 2: nine double eight, and highly recommend people reaching out just
Speaker 2: to understand how it works and speak to one of
Speaker 2: our counselors directly. We say that all the time, you're
Speaker 2: not going to take it off anyone. We've got a
Speaker 2: really good trio system.
Speaker 3: So don't worry about that. Yeah, if you're an.
Speaker 2: Organization that's looking for a new organization to jump behind
Speaker 2: and fund, yeah, TAX is always keen to chat to
Speaker 2: more corporate partners.
Speaker 3: And yeah, if businesses.
Speaker 2: Want to jump on board trade mut and start funky
Speaker 2: shirt Fridays, then yeah, trade mut dot com.
Speaker 3: And we can we can help out with all your
Speaker 3: work where needs.
Speaker 1: It's pretty you're not a farmer, tip for a min or,
Speaker 1: a trade or a truckie because you're a lot of issues.
Speaker 1: Maybe you could just be you know, a temporary like
Speaker 1: a part time truckie.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, my hand is raised, ready to tap into
Speaker 3: these resent you.
Speaker 1: Get on board, he ed. It's been a pleasure from
Speaker 1: this end anyway. Thank you so much for chatting with us.
Speaker 1: We'll say goodbye off air, but for the minute. Thanks
Speaker 1: for being on the You project.
Speaker 3: Thanks Greig, thanks to you. Appreciate it.