1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,510 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,510 --> 00:00:11,099 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. A lot of investors love dividends, understandable because who 3 00:00:11,099 --> 00:00:13,380 Sean Aylmer: doesn't like getting a payment in your account or a 4 00:00:13,380 --> 00:00:15,689 Sean Aylmer: check in the mail? Plus, there are tax benefits from 5 00:00:15,690 --> 00:00:18,989 Sean Aylmer: franking credits. But maybe investors are looking at this the 6 00:00:18,989 --> 00:00:22,410 Sean Aylmer: wrong way. Roger Montgomery, Founder and Chief Investment Officer of 7 00:00:22,410 --> 00:00:26,400 Sean Aylmer: Montgomery Investment Management, has written about this recently, why investors 8 00:00:26,460 --> 00:00:30,419 Sean Aylmer: should avoid the siren call of high- dividend stocks. Remember, 9 00:00:30,420 --> 00:00:33,659 Sean Aylmer: this is general information only and you should seek professional 10 00:00:33,659 --> 00:00:36,600 Sean Aylmer: advice before making investment decisions. Roger, welcome back to Fear 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:37,110 Sean Aylmer: and Greed. 12 00:00:37,500 --> 00:00:39,000 Roger Montgomery: Great to be with you. Thanks for having me. 13 00:00:39,330 --> 00:00:41,460 Sean Aylmer: I think one of the first things I learned as 14 00:00:41,460 --> 00:00:43,800 Sean Aylmer: a journalist, and I had no business background and I 15 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,820 Sean Aylmer: went into business journalism, was if you buy Telstra, you're 16 00:00:47,820 --> 00:00:50,789 Sean Aylmer: getting a 5% yield. Why wouldn't you do it with those 17 00:00:50,790 --> 00:00:51,659 Sean Aylmer: franking credits? 18 00:00:53,609 --> 00:00:58,560 Roger Montgomery: Yes, Telstra is an example I've used not only on 19 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,770 Roger Montgomery: our blog and in articles for The Australian, but also 20 00:01:01,770 --> 00:01:06,688 Roger Montgomery: in university lectures to explain the difference between a high- 21 00:01:06,690 --> 00:01:13,110 Roger Montgomery: quality business and a ho- hum business. Not that Telstra's not high quality, 22 00:01:13,140 --> 00:01:16,620 Roger Montgomery: but it's of lesser quality because of its inability to 23 00:01:16,620 --> 00:01:20,729 Roger Montgomery: grow. And the problem for investors is often that they're 24 00:01:20,730 --> 00:01:24,929 Roger Montgomery: lured to investing in Telstra and businesses like Telstra because 25 00:01:24,929 --> 00:01:29,309 Roger Montgomery: of the relatively attractive dividend yield. And the problem with that 26 00:01:29,340 --> 00:01:34,620 Roger Montgomery: is that when a dividend yield is attractive because a 27 00:01:34,620 --> 00:01:38,939 Roger Montgomery: company has increased its payout ratio or pays out the 28 00:01:38,940 --> 00:01:42,600 Roger Montgomery: majority of its earnings as a dividend, the problem is 29 00:01:42,630 --> 00:01:46,859 Roger Montgomery: that the company doesn't have much money to reinvest for 30 00:01:46,859 --> 00:01:52,350 Roger Montgomery: growth. And it can obtain that money by raising capital, 31 00:01:52,350 --> 00:01:55,800 Roger Montgomery: which of course would dilute shareholders stake in the business, 32 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,949 Roger Montgomery: or it could borrow money, which would increase the risk. 33 00:01:59,580 --> 00:02:02,279 Roger Montgomery: And so the first thing to say is that management 34 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,799 Roger Montgomery: is responsible for a couple of things. And one skill 35 00:02:04,799 --> 00:02:08,490 Roger Montgomery: that they need to have is operating the business. But 36 00:02:08,490 --> 00:02:11,399 Roger Montgomery: another skill that's equally important is what we call capital 37 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:16,860 Roger Montgomery: allocation, and that's the management of the capital and the 38 00:02:16,860 --> 00:02:22,409 Roger Montgomery: balancing act that exists between paying an income to the 39 00:02:22,410 --> 00:02:26,280 Roger Montgomery: owners of the business, but also retaining a sufficient quantity 40 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,760 Roger Montgomery: of capital to be able to grow the business. Now, 41 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,120 Roger Montgomery: if a business is generating a very high rate of 42 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,179 Roger Montgomery: return on its equity, and that's something you and I 43 00:02:36,179 --> 00:02:39,299 Roger Montgomery: can't do, so if we receive a dividend, what are 44 00:02:39,299 --> 00:02:41,099 Roger Montgomery: we going to do? We might put it in a 45 00:02:41,100 --> 00:02:44,100 Roger Montgomery: term deposit, and at the moment we might receive something 46 00:02:44,100 --> 00:02:47,190 Roger Montgomery: like 4% or something like that. But if the company 47 00:02:47,220 --> 00:02:51,299 Roger Montgomery: is able to generate another 20% return or a 30% return 48 00:02:51,300 --> 00:02:55,500 Roger Montgomery: on its capital, it is far, far more rewarding for 49 00:02:55,500 --> 00:02:59,699 Roger Montgomery: shareholders for the company to retain that capital, to retain 50 00:02:59,699 --> 00:03:04,769 Roger Montgomery: those profits, reinvest it at 20, 30, 40%, and grow the earnings 51 00:03:04,770 --> 00:03:08,040 Roger Montgomery: of that business than to pay it out as a 52 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,660 Roger Montgomery: dividend. And when you take tax into consideration, so when 53 00:03:12,660 --> 00:03:16,529 Roger Montgomery: you think about an investor who might be a retiree 54 00:03:16,529 --> 00:03:20,070 Roger Montgomery: and therefore receives all of the benefit of franking credits 55 00:03:20,370 --> 00:03:24,000 Roger Montgomery: as well that boosts the dividend yield even further, they 56 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:28,770 Roger Montgomery: are still better off having the money retained and compounded 57 00:03:29,429 --> 00:03:32,969 Roger Montgomery: and then selling some shares in the future, remember they're 58 00:03:32,969 --> 00:03:35,520 Roger Montgomery: on zero tax rate anyway, so they're not paying any 59 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,970 Roger Montgomery: capital gains tax, and selling those shares. And they'll only 60 00:03:38,970 --> 00:03:41,700 Roger Montgomery: have to sell a few shares because the shares will 61 00:03:41,700 --> 00:03:44,909 Roger Montgomery: have gone up by a lot more and their overall 62 00:03:44,910 --> 00:03:47,910 Roger Montgomery: return will be much higher than if they received the 63 00:03:47,910 --> 00:03:51,389 Roger Montgomery: dividend. And the best example of that, an example of 64 00:03:51,389 --> 00:03:55,020 Roger Montgomery: a company that's paid no dividends, has retained all its 65 00:03:55,020 --> 00:03:58,260 Roger Montgomery: profits at a very high rate of return for many, 66 00:03:58,260 --> 00:04:03,360 Roger Montgomery: many decades is Berkshire Hathaway. And so Berkshire Hathaway's shares 67 00:04:03,450 --> 00:04:09,089 Roger Montgomery: now trade at $400, 000 each. And why? Because dividends weren't 68 00:04:09,089 --> 00:04:12,960 Roger Montgomery: paid out. The money was retained and compounded at a 69 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,140 Roger Montgomery: high rate of return on equity. Now of course, there 70 00:04:16,140 --> 00:04:18,839 Roger Montgomery: are lots of caveats to this, and I can already 71 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:24,120 Roger Montgomery: hear listeners, I can already hear listeners saying, " But management 72 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,490 Roger Montgomery: does terrible things with my money. I'd rather have it." 73 00:04:26,490 --> 00:04:30,779 Roger Montgomery: That's true. We're talking about businesses that are able to 74 00:04:30,779 --> 00:04:36,089 Roger Montgomery: generate high rates of return on equity sustainably and they've 75 00:04:36,089 --> 00:04:39,059 Roger Montgomery: got management, those businesses are run by managers that not 76 00:04:39,059 --> 00:04:41,339 Roger Montgomery: only know how to run the business but know how 77 00:04:41,339 --> 00:04:46,709 Roger Montgomery: to allocate capital. And to finish this particular argument is 78 00:04:46,709 --> 00:04:49,469 Roger Montgomery: probably best to compare Telstra, which is the company you 79 00:04:49,470 --> 00:04:52,950 Roger Montgomery: mentioned in your question to CSL, for example. If we 80 00:04:52,950 --> 00:04:57,570 Roger Montgomery: go all the way back to 2005, Telstra's yield in 81 00:04:57,570 --> 00:05:02,128 Roger Montgomery: 2005 was about 6% and CSL's yield was about 5%. 82 00:05:03,029 --> 00:05:05,789 Roger Montgomery: So on balance, you might have thought, well, I'll go 83 00:05:05,789 --> 00:05:09,690 Roger Montgomery: with Telstra because it gives me a better yield. So 84 00:05:09,690 --> 00:05:13,950 Roger Montgomery: if you'd invested $ 100,000 in Telstra that year, your income 85 00:05:13,950 --> 00:05:17,489 Roger Montgomery: that year would've been about $6, 000, whereas your income from 86 00:05:17,490 --> 00:05:23,070 Roger Montgomery: investing 100,000 in CSL would've only been $ 5, 000. So you might 87 00:05:23,070 --> 00:05:26,969 Roger Montgomery: think you've been a wise investor putting $100, 000 in Telstra 88 00:05:27,210 --> 00:05:30,720 Roger Montgomery: rather than CSL. But if we then fast- forward 10 89 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:35,580 Roger Montgomery: years to 2015, well, the $ 100,000 in Telstra has grown. 90 00:05:35,670 --> 00:05:40,799 Roger Montgomery: It's grown to $ 117,000 or about $118, 000. And the income 91 00:05:40,799 --> 00:05:45,000 Roger Montgomery: has grown. The income's grown from $6, 000 to 6, 500. So you 92 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,930 Roger Montgomery: might think, yay, I made the right decision. Well done. But $100, 93 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,560 Roger Montgomery: 000 in Telstra, remembering it was, number one, generating a higher 94 00:05:52,860 --> 00:05:55,349 Roger Montgomery: rate of return on equity, and number two, it was 95 00:05:55,349 --> 00:05:59,370 Roger Montgomery: actually retaining a larger proportion of its profits and compounding 96 00:05:59,490 --> 00:06:04,620 Roger Montgomery: its equity and therefore its earnings. Well, that $ 100,000 grew 97 00:06:04,740 --> 00:06:09,238 Roger Montgomery: to not 117,000 or $118, 000 like Telstra, but it grew to a 98 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,678 Roger Montgomery: million dollars. And the income, here's the thing, the income 99 00:06:13,678 --> 00:06:18,930 Roger Montgomery: grew from $ 5, 000 a year in 2005 to almost $19, 100 00:06:19,020 --> 00:06:24,990 Roger Montgomery: 000 a year by 2015. So CSL wasn't just a 101 00:06:24,990 --> 00:06:28,620 Roger Montgomery: growth stock. It's a better income stock as well. Because 102 00:06:28,620 --> 00:06:32,880 Roger Montgomery: the yield after 10 years is actually almost 19% on 103 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:37,230 Roger Montgomery: your original $ 100,000. And now, just to avoid being accused 104 00:06:37,230 --> 00:06:40,890 Roger Montgomery: of picking a great period, what if we started the 105 00:06:41,010 --> 00:06:44,849 Roger Montgomery: assessment 10 years ago from today. So we went back 106 00:06:44,849 --> 00:06:50,190 Roger Montgomery: and started the comparison in 2013 and fast- forward to 107 00:06:50,190 --> 00:06:56,400 Roger Montgomery: now. Well, $ 100,000 in Telstra provided a 6. 25% yield 108 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:01,950 Roger Montgomery: in 2013. So you would've received income of $ 6, 250 on $100, 109 00:07:02,070 --> 00:07:07,709 Roger Montgomery: 000 investment, whereas CSL on your $ 100,000 investment in 2013 110 00:07:07,980 --> 00:07:12,870 Roger Montgomery: gave you only 2. 25%. So 2, 250 odd dollars of 111 00:07:12,870 --> 00:07:17,730 Roger Montgomery: income. So triple the income from Telstra in 2013 because 112 00:07:17,730 --> 00:07:20,489 Roger Montgomery: the yield was three times more than the yield on 113 00:07:20,490 --> 00:07:25,710 Roger Montgomery: CSL. But fast- forward to today, and that $ 100,000 is 114 00:07:25,710 --> 00:07:30,840 Roger Montgomery: only worth $92, 000 in Telstra and the income has dropped from $6, 115 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:38,520 Roger Montgomery: 250 to $ 3, 800. And CSL's $ 100, 000 has grown to about $600, 116 00:07:38,790 --> 00:07:42,630 Roger Montgomery: 000, so there's been a sixfold increase. And your income 117 00:07:42,630 --> 00:07:50,520 Roger Montgomery: has tripled from $ 2, 200 to $6,372. So the yield is a 118 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:55,530 Roger Montgomery: distraction if it causes you to invest in an inferior business. 119 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,700 Sean Aylmer: I mean, the moral of that story really is that 120 00:07:59,730 --> 00:08:03,330 Sean Aylmer: you need to look at the business first and foremost, 121 00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:07,200 Sean Aylmer: and the other stuff, dividends, are add- ons. 122 00:08:07,770 --> 00:08:10,770 Roger Montgomery: Yes. What you want to search for first is a 123 00:08:10,770 --> 00:08:15,420 Roger Montgomery: quality business, a business that can sustainably generate high rates 124 00:08:15,420 --> 00:08:18,900 Roger Montgomery: of return on equity. And your yield will be better 125 00:08:19,410 --> 00:08:22,560 Roger Montgomery: if you invest in that business. You will actually generate 126 00:08:22,590 --> 00:08:26,250 Roger Montgomery: more growth and more income from investing in that high- 127 00:08:26,250 --> 00:08:29,640 Roger Montgomery: quality business than just going for the stock that pays 128 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:34,139 Roger Montgomery: the highest dividend deal today. Now, it's a difficult challenge 129 00:08:34,139 --> 00:08:36,600 Roger Montgomery: for people who are near retirement or retired. 130 00:08:36,630 --> 00:08:39,360 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, I was going to ask about pensioners and people like that 131 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,180 Sean Aylmer: who just want an income stream every year. 132 00:08:42,630 --> 00:08:46,350 Roger Montgomery: Yeah. It's a challenge because you have to balance the 133 00:08:47,190 --> 00:08:51,328 Roger Montgomery: immediate income needs, your requirement to eat and pay for 134 00:08:51,330 --> 00:08:55,108 Roger Montgomery: a holiday and pay for healthcare, with the requirement to 135 00:08:55,110 --> 00:08:59,969 Roger Montgomery: maintain purchasing power. In other words, to achieve growth so 136 00:08:59,969 --> 00:09:02,429 Roger Montgomery: that whatever bottle of wine you can afford today, you 137 00:09:02,429 --> 00:09:06,690 Roger Montgomery: can still afford in five, 10, or 15 years time. And remember, 138 00:09:06,690 --> 00:09:09,149 Roger Montgomery: the stock market doesn't care how old you are. 139 00:09:09,630 --> 00:09:09,631 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 140 00:09:09,631 --> 00:09:12,089 Roger Montgomery: So I always hear the refrain, " Yes, but, Roger, I 141 00:09:12,090 --> 00:09:15,930 Roger Montgomery: don't have 20 years. I need to invest for now." 142 00:09:16,170 --> 00:09:19,020 Roger Montgomery: Well, the stock market isn't going to reward you for 143 00:09:19,020 --> 00:09:22,500 Roger Montgomery: your age. It's going to reward you for picking high- 144 00:09:22,500 --> 00:09:25,890 Roger Montgomery: quality businesses. So no matter what your age, you should 145 00:09:25,890 --> 00:09:30,119 Roger Montgomery: be investing sensibly, and sensibly means those high- quality businesses, 146 00:09:30,420 --> 00:09:34,049 Roger Montgomery: little or no debt, great growth prospects, and generating high 147 00:09:34,049 --> 00:09:35,970 Roger Montgomery: rates of return on invested capital. 148 00:09:36,539 --> 00:09:38,460 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Roger. We'll be back in a minute. 149 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,639 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Roger Montgomery, Founder and Chief 150 00:09:47,639 --> 00:09:52,139 Sean Aylmer: Investment Officer of Montgomery Investment Management. Can I ask about 151 00:09:52,139 --> 00:09:55,348 Sean Aylmer: the banks specifically? Because many people invest in, well, we 152 00:09:55,350 --> 00:09:57,510 Sean Aylmer: all invest in banks probably through our super fund, but 153 00:09:57,809 --> 00:10:03,270 Sean Aylmer: many do individually anyway. They are yielding stocks. They're not 154 00:10:03,270 --> 00:10:05,699 Sean Aylmer: quite Telstra, but they still do pretty well. 155 00:10:05,879 --> 00:10:06,869 Roger Montgomery: Well, and they do grow as well. 156 00:10:07,469 --> 00:10:11,129 Sean Aylmer: And they grow. Yeah. So is there a sweet spot 157 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,679 Sean Aylmer: in a sense that you can get a bit of both? 158 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,070 Roger Montgomery: I think you have to balance your portfolio needs to 159 00:10:17,070 --> 00:10:21,150 Roger Montgomery: have some growth and some yield. And the banks, at 160 00:10:21,150 --> 00:10:25,169 Roger Montgomery: the moment I'm a little bit reluctant to advocate a 161 00:10:25,170 --> 00:10:28,020 Roger Montgomery: big investment in the banks, although most listeners will already 162 00:10:28,020 --> 00:10:28,949 Roger Montgomery: have an investment in them. 163 00:10:28,949 --> 00:10:29,880 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Yeah. 164 00:10:29,910 --> 00:10:33,330 Roger Montgomery: And the reason why is that term funding facility, the $ 165 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,588 Roger Montgomery: 188 billion of RBA funding that was offered to banks at .1%, 166 00:10:39,090 --> 00:10:41,429 Roger Montgomery: that's due to be paid back in September this year 167 00:10:41,460 --> 00:10:44,790 Roger Montgomery: and June next year. And that will result in a 168 00:10:44,790 --> 00:10:48,720 Roger Montgomery: very, very significant increase in cost of funds for the 169 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,179 Roger Montgomery: banks as they turn to the wholesale funding market to 170 00:10:51,179 --> 00:10:54,360 Roger Montgomery: replace that cheap debt. And that means that their net 171 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,540 Roger Montgomery: interest margins could come under pressure. And they're under pressure 172 00:10:57,540 --> 00:11:00,509 Roger Montgomery: anyway at the moment because they're competing so... 173 00:11:01,259 --> 00:11:01,949 Sean Aylmer: Ferociously. 174 00:11:02,610 --> 00:11:05,879 Roger Montgomery: I think that's a great word, ferociously probably appropriate. Because 175 00:11:05,879 --> 00:11:10,050 Roger Montgomery: there's a slowing of mortgage growth and mortgage book growth 176 00:11:10,350 --> 00:11:13,348 Roger Montgomery: or credit growth in the mortgage space, people aren't borrowing 177 00:11:13,350 --> 00:11:15,719 Roger Montgomery: money to buy houses at the same level that they 178 00:11:15,719 --> 00:11:18,480 Roger Montgomery: were years ago, so there's a lot of competition. So 179 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,968 Roger Montgomery: that's not going away. In fact, if anything, that could 180 00:11:20,969 --> 00:11:24,750 Roger Montgomery: become more of a problem for banks margins over the 181 00:11:25,530 --> 00:11:28,110 Roger Montgomery: course of the next 12 months or 18 months. And 182 00:11:28,110 --> 00:11:30,990 Roger Montgomery: so I think banks ultimately, if you live on an 183 00:11:30,990 --> 00:11:33,750 Roger Montgomery: island, you want to own the banks, they're great businesses 184 00:11:33,750 --> 00:11:36,540 Roger Montgomery: to own, but now might not be the perfect time 185 00:11:36,540 --> 00:11:38,279 Roger Montgomery: to be heavily invested in them. 186 00:11:38,610 --> 00:11:42,090 Sean Aylmer: Okay. We're almost out of time. CSL is that still 187 00:11:42,090 --> 00:11:45,030 Sean Aylmer: what you'd consider a growth stock, still a company that 188 00:11:45,030 --> 00:11:48,358 Sean Aylmer: people should think about based on what you're talking about? 189 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,970 Sean Aylmer: What other growth companies are there that you think just 190 00:11:50,970 --> 00:11:53,430 Sean Aylmer: worth having a look at? And I'm just reminding listeners, 191 00:11:53,849 --> 00:11:57,030 Sean Aylmer: everyone has their own personal circumstances, so this is not 192 00:11:57,030 --> 00:11:58,588 Sean Aylmer: investment advice. But tell us what you like. 193 00:11:58,859 --> 00:12:02,460 Roger Montgomery: Well, here's one that is considered an income stock, but 194 00:12:02,460 --> 00:12:05,310 Roger Montgomery: might actually have some growth to it that's probably being 195 00:12:05,340 --> 00:12:10,679 Roger Montgomery: underappreciated by the market, and that's Transurban. So Transurban has 196 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,880 Roger Montgomery: managed to hedge or fix its significant debt at very, 197 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,510 Roger Montgomery: very low rates. When rates bottomed out 12 months ago 198 00:12:18,510 --> 00:12:22,078 Roger Montgomery: or so, or maybe 18 months ago, they managed to 199 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,679 Roger Montgomery: hedge or fix their considerable debt at very, very low 200 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:30,660 Roger Montgomery: rates. And at the same time, 68% of their toll 201 00:12:30,660 --> 00:12:35,819 Roger Montgomery: revenue is pegged to CPI. And because of the way 202 00:12:35,879 --> 00:12:38,490 Roger Montgomery: the business is structured and the way those price increases 203 00:12:38,490 --> 00:12:42,060 Roger Montgomery: come through, there's going to be at least 18 months 204 00:12:42,420 --> 00:12:47,429 Roger Montgomery: of significant toll road price increases that are going to 205 00:12:47,490 --> 00:12:49,889 Roger Montgomery: feed through to revenue for the company. And the rest 206 00:12:49,889 --> 00:12:54,270 Roger Montgomery: of it, about 27% of its revenue receives increases that 207 00:12:54,270 --> 00:12:57,300 Roger Montgomery: are fixed at 4. 25%. So you can imagine if 208 00:12:57,300 --> 00:13:00,960 Roger Montgomery: your debt is fixed at a very low rate and 209 00:13:00,990 --> 00:13:05,429 Roger Montgomery: your revenue is growing either at 4. 25% per annum 210 00:13:05,610 --> 00:13:09,330 Roger Montgomery: or at CPI, and remember CPI rates they went over 211 00:13:09,330 --> 00:13:13,319 Roger Montgomery: 7% last year, that's going to feed through to revenue 212 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,868 Roger Montgomery: increases. So this is a business that's seen as a 213 00:13:15,870 --> 00:13:18,600 Roger Montgomery: bond proxy, it's seen as an income stock, but over 214 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,760 Roger Montgomery: the next 18 months to 24 months it's going to 215 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,348 Roger Montgomery: have some serious growth as well. 216 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,488 Sean Aylmer: Smart management often comes down to that. CSL, Transurban, kind of 217 00:13:26,490 --> 00:13:28,559 Sean Aylmer: good CEOs, good management teams, Roger. 218 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:29,489 Roger Montgomery: Indeed. Indeed. 219 00:13:29,940 --> 00:13:31,770 Sean Aylmer: Thank you for talking to Fear and Greed, Roger. 220 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:33,900 Roger Montgomery: Always a pleasure, Sean. Speak to you again soon. 221 00:13:34,290 --> 00:13:37,350 Sean Aylmer: That was Roger Montgomery, Founder and Chief Investment Officer of 222 00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:45,090 Sean Aylmer: Montgomery Investment Management. For more information, visit montinvest. com. That's montinvest. 223 00:13:45,450 --> 00:13:48,208 Sean Aylmer: com. This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Remember, 224 00:13:48,208 --> 00:13:50,968 Sean Aylmer: this is general information only and you should seek professional 225 00:13:50,970 --> 00:13:54,118 Sean Aylmer: advice before making investment decisions. Join us every morning for 226 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,789 Sean Aylmer: the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular 227 00:13:56,790 --> 00:13:59,880 Sean Aylmer: business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.