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Speaker 1: Apodje Production.

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Speaker 2: Well, good morning everybody, and welcome back to the Missing

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Speaker 2: Matter Marion Matters. We're very lucky this morning because we

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Speaker 2: are looping over to la and talking to the amazing,

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Speaker 2: very special friend of ours, Laura Richards, who has been

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Speaker 2: working with Joni and I and given us a lot

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Speaker 2: of her time over the last few years. So it's

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Speaker 2: been a while, Laura, but welcome back.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 4: It's my absolute pleasure to be talking to you both again.

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Speaker 4: And I dug out Sally the picture of you and

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Speaker 4: I in Santa Monica, which was from January twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 4: I saw you posted it as well, and I mean

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Speaker 4: that was so wonderful to meet you in real life

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Speaker 4: as well. So I think very fondly of that lunch, yeah,

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Speaker 4: where we covered a lot of ground.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was amazing.

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Speaker 2: And I posted it just to lit all of my

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Speaker 2: listeners and followers of Mum's case know that we were

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Speaker 2: catching up, because I knew that there'd be a lot

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Speaker 2: of people that would be super excited that Joanie and

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Speaker 2: I were catching up with you again.

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Speaker 4: So thank you for your time too. You are so welcome.

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Speaker 4: You have done so much on your Mum Marion's case.

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Speaker 4: It's really mind blowing to me just to see how

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Speaker 4: much ground you've covered and just how the case file

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Speaker 4: has grown with your travels. And I really enjoyed talking

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Speaker 4: to you in part one on Crime Analyst podcast. You've

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Speaker 4: got a lot of fans and super fans there and

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Speaker 4: in the Crime Analyst squad, so I'm really excited to

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Speaker 4: be continuing our conversation.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you for joining us again. Joani's here as well. Hello, everybody,

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Speaker 2: we're here. We're ready for a great conversation with Laura.

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Speaker 3: Good to see you, Jony.

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Speaker 2: We sort of had a big conversation with Laura for

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Speaker 2: part one of our episode, which will be featured on

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Speaker 2: Crime Analyst, and we will sent through the links here

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Speaker 2: on the Missing matter as well. But you're listening to

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Speaker 2: part two, so I might push it over to you, Joni.

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Speaker 1: You can tell us.

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Speaker 2: I think that we're riding the bus heading into itsitch

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Speaker 2: in Lutzengburg.

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Speaker 1: What did we discover and do there?

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Speaker 5: Well, there, I guess.

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Speaker 6: Monique Cornelius, the school teacher, the finan Ramikale's ex wife

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Speaker 6: has been a bone of contention. A lot of information,

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Speaker 6: a lot of stuff has come about about Monique. She's

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Speaker 6: a very interesting character. She's quite enigmatic, she's quite flamboyant.

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Speaker 6: A lot of stuff has gone on behind the scenes

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Speaker 6: too that people wouldn't be aware of. She's told various

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Speaker 6: journalists different things. So I guess coming to Sal and

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Speaker 6: I traveling down that bus into its ish, we weren't

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Speaker 6: sure what we would find. We had attempted to contact

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Speaker 6: Menique Pryor to ensure that she was going to be home,

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Speaker 6: that we were going to be able to connect with her.

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Speaker 5: In the end, we weren't able to do that.

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Speaker 6: So we thought, well, we'll just get on the bus

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Speaker 6: and go down there and see what we find. When

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Speaker 6: we do go knocking on her door, being fully aware

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Speaker 6: that Sal this is like the second time that Sale

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Speaker 6: has knocked on a door in Luxembourg, not knowing what

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Speaker 6: was actually going to happen behind that door. So we

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Speaker 6: showed up there and the most amazing and strange thing happened.

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Speaker 6: When we actually walked up to her front door. We

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Speaker 6: looked over to press the doorbell to see if she

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Speaker 6: was going to be home, and there was all this

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Speaker 6: sticky tape on the doorbell that was sort of all

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Speaker 6: worn off, and then both of our eyes landed on

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Speaker 6: the name Bloom. We just thought, WHOA, what is this

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Speaker 6: all about? So Rick Bloom changed his name in twenty

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Speaker 6: fourteen to Rick Bloom. So that was a long time after,

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Speaker 6: you know, the eighties or the nineties when they were

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Speaker 6: having in their so called platonic relationship. So I guess

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Speaker 6: from there we have been doing a lot of work

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Speaker 6: on why that name is on that name plate.

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Speaker 5: What do you think about that?

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Speaker 6: Laura like, to me, that is quite significant that the

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Speaker 6: current name of Rick Bloom is featured on the name

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Speaker 6: plate of his old ex girlfriend from the eighties apartment

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Speaker 6: block in Luxembourg.

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Speaker 2: The face plate is the same piece of metal, so

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Speaker 2: it's one piece of metal and underneath it's got cornelius,

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Speaker 2: and then above it it says b Lum so Blum

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Speaker 2: but pronounced Bloom, and then above it is handwritten cornelius

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Speaker 2: with arrows coming down and there's been sticky tape over

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Speaker 2: the blum. So that has now been taken off. And

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Speaker 2: for me, Laura, I was having an absolute meltdown because I'd.

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Speaker 1: Been at that door.

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Speaker 2: I'd knocked on that door back in twenty nineteen when

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Speaker 2: I went with Brian from Channel seven and I kept saying,

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Speaker 2: and I know Allison had been back, and I know

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Speaker 2: Tom Riddell had been to the house.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, why has no one mentioned this?

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Speaker 2: Like why is there blue bloom on the face plate

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Speaker 2: of this apartment? It was absolutely doing my head in

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Speaker 2: and I was very, very shocked and confused by that.

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Speaker 2: So we would love.

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Speaker 1: To hear what you think about this.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I'm not surprised it was a headspin for

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Speaker 4: you to look over and to see that, And that

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Speaker 4: was going to be my question, Sally, whether you record

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Speaker 4: it from the time before that you were there, But

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Speaker 4: it does sound like it had probably been taped over right,

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Speaker 4: so it wasn't visible.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing to note, we didn't know about

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Speaker 2: mister Bloom at that point. And this is where my

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Speaker 2: head starts to play games with me because I'm living

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Speaker 2: in the now and everything I know. And then I

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Speaker 2: had to stop and we recorded all of this because

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Speaker 2: Joanie and I just didn't We really had no concept

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Speaker 2: of what we were going to do with the details

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Speaker 2: that we had, but it was more for me, so

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Speaker 2: I had a good memory of what we were capturing

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Speaker 2: at the time because I'm also in my little lovely

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Speaker 2: stage of life where I have lots of brain fog

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Speaker 2: and I'm forgetting things. As my head is so full,

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Speaker 2: I tend to forget. So it was more about capturing

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Speaker 2: the information. But I had to pull myself back and

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Speaker 2: I actually think I did record myself saying this journey.

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Speaker 2: Actually we didn't know about him then, so why would

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Speaker 2: we be looking and making any comment. Even if it

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Speaker 2: wasn't taped over, it wouldn't have meant anything, but it

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Speaker 2: meant something now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, very good point.

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Speaker 4: And that is the crux of everything to do with

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Speaker 4: this case, that you don't know what's significant until you

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Speaker 4: know your way down the track. And that's why you

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Speaker 4: know someone sat there with a key piece of information.

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Speaker 4: It's probably something quite small that they just don't realize

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Speaker 4: the significance of. So it does make me think was

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Speaker 4: it always.

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Speaker 3: There or was it covered?

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Speaker 4: And really the only person who can answer that, well,

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Speaker 4: there's two people, aren't there. It's Monique and him. But

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Speaker 4: it does seem to I don't know how common that

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Speaker 4: name is, for example, you know where they were living.

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Speaker 4: Is it a common name? Is it something that you

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Speaker 4: would expect to see, you know, like the Smith's or

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Speaker 4: the Jones in the UK? Or is it more unusual?

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Speaker 4: Was it for him specifically? Did he live there for

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Speaker 4: a longer period of time? Was there something more going on?

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Speaker 4: Because they both have very different stories, don't they, Monique

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Speaker 4: and mister Bloom, of what was going on and for

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Speaker 4: how long? But we do know he borrowed in inverted

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Speaker 4: Comma's stole the name Remacle for himself, and we know

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Speaker 4: that your mother took on that name, and of course

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Speaker 4: Rick Bloom had a number of other things to say

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Speaker 4: about that of Marian taking the You know, there's a

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Speaker 4: whole there's always some convoluted story surrounding every element of

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Speaker 4: the case, isn't there. But it doesn't seem to be

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Speaker 4: just coincidence. And that's something that if you can get

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Speaker 4: hold of Monique Cornelius, that would be something I would

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Speaker 4: absolutely want to hear more about, whether he was living

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Speaker 4: there with her, whether he still goes back.

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Speaker 3: I mean, do we know whether they're still in contact

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Speaker 3: at all?

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Speaker 6: Not at this point not at this point in time.

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Speaker 6: I guess. Just to confirm too, that it's actually a

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Speaker 6: two apartment building, So there's two apartments. So there was

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Speaker 6: Moniques that was one val and then the bell above

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Speaker 6: it was that second apartment, So it was a bloom

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Speaker 6: in a second apartment and you could say to yourself, okay,

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Speaker 6: that is absolute coincidence. But in further speaking, to a

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Speaker 6: few key people within the It'sish community, that name is

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Speaker 6: extremely rare and unusual in Luxembourg itself, but especially this

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Speaker 6: person does have the same surname who I have connected to,

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Speaker 6: and so they are able to basically map out all

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Speaker 6: the people with that same name within that same community,

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Speaker 6: and they don't know who that individual is. So we've

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Speaker 6: got a little way to go to actually clarify that.

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Speaker 6: Property records aren't as easy to access within Luxembourg as

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Speaker 6: what they are in Australia. So therefore, yeah, we're just

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Speaker 6: continuing to go down that track to actually clarify who

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Speaker 6: that individual was. It could be a total red herring,

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Speaker 6: we don't but again, as you said, we don't know.

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Speaker 6: And this is what I've learned over this whole six

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Speaker 6: year journey is that every single thing needs to be

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Speaker 6: turned over because you do not know the significance of

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Speaker 6: the smallest, tiniest detail and how relevant it can actually

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Speaker 6: be in the long run.

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Speaker 3: One hundred percent.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't believe in coincidences, but they can

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Speaker 4: and do happen. We have seen, you know, things come

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Speaker 4: out of left field. It can and does happen. But

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Speaker 4: when you said that last name is actually quite rare

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Speaker 4: in that specific area, then you know it seems to

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Speaker 4: be something that well, you would definitely want to find

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Speaker 4: out more. And I know, Joni love to find out

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Speaker 4: information from difficult places because you've got the patience of

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Speaker 4: a saint, unlike myself who gets quite frustrated with bureaucracy

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Speaker 4: and trying to track things down.

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Speaker 3: But if anyone's going to find out, it will be you.

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Speaker 2: I know that was very lucky. I like to find joany.

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Speaker 2: I think every missing person, every family needs a Jooney.

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Speaker 5: So thanks sir.

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Speaker 3: So that was a curve ball for you seeing that.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I can totally understand sally why your

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Speaker 4: head was in a spin. But it's a sign one

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Speaker 4: you know, one way or the other. And I mean

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Speaker 4: that it's literally a sign, and it's something that you've

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Speaker 4: got to bottom out for sure. And I say, you know,

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Speaker 4: you've got to. Really, these are the things the police

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Speaker 4: should be doing and trying to get answers to these things,

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Speaker 4: rather than you both having to put so much time

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Speaker 4: and energy into it.

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Speaker 2: But you know, we are where we are, yeah, and

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Speaker 2: unfortunately what I just probably good opportunity to tell you

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Speaker 2: that The Missing that a podcast as much as we've

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Speaker 2: got the series about Mum, which is Marion Matters, while

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Speaker 2: we're still investigating and running behind the scenes, I wanted

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Speaker 2: to take opportunity to actually use the platform that we've

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Speaker 2: had because there's a lot of people listening and a

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Speaker 2: lot of people coming onto that space to hear my

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Speaker 2: mum's story. But I wanted to opportune the ability for

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Speaker 2: some of these missing persons families to come on and

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Speaker 2: talk to me.

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Speaker 1: So now we've extended that.

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Speaker 2: So we've just launched a first episode of that, which

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Speaker 2: is The Missing Matter des Matters, and that's a full

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Speaker 2: episode about one case which is a man named Des

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Speaker 2: Carr who went missing in nineteen seventy nine. He's not

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Speaker 2: on the missing person's register, he doesn't have a reward

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Speaker 2: and outside of the family doing things, no one's really

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Speaker 2: doing anything. So it's about bringing awareness to some of

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Speaker 2: those cases. And the next episode which comes out they

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Speaker 2: all drop every week at midnight in Australian time. Next

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Speaker 2: episode is about a gentleman Nicolas Salise, and he's been

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Speaker 2: missing for seventeen years, and talking to his son Jason,

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Speaker 2: we're sort of asking questions, do you want to do this?

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Speaker 1: And you want that? And he's like, I'm just focusing

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Speaker 1: on trying to find him.

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Speaker 2: Like we're putting all of our energies into doing sonar

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Speaker 2: and checks and drone footage to find my dad. So

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Speaker 2: even seventeen years after the fact, they're physically out there

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Speaker 2: looking for their father because they just want to desperately

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Speaker 2: bring him home. And I think what's very telling is

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Speaker 2: that we're all in the same we're on the same boat,

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Speaker 2: Like we're all sitting here just desperate to try and

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Speaker 2: find the answers when the police are saying they don't

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Speaker 2: have the time or the standard conversation I have with

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Speaker 2: them on the phone is HI, Sally, so the case

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Speaker 2: is open still but inactive, and then we move on

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Speaker 2: to the topic of the conversation up that phone call,

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Speaker 2: And that's standard for me at the moment. Some of

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Speaker 2: these families I'm talking to, they haven't been spoken to

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Speaker 2: for thirteen years, you know. One of them was talking

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Speaker 2: to the other day about her missing husban and if

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Speaker 2: it wasn't for the general community, wasn't for being able

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Speaker 2: to do podcasts and bringing awareness to these cases. There's

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Speaker 2: a lot of people left behind trying to struggle behind

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Speaker 2: the scenes, doing it on their own. And I know

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Speaker 2: all these people who I've spoken to so far, the

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Speaker 2: community and people supporting them is what's helping well.

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Speaker 4: I know it's been a tremendous support to you, Sally,

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Speaker 4: to have so many people who are interested and invested

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Speaker 4: in helping you. You know, if other people can feel that,

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Speaker 4: like the crowd funded investigation, and that people do care

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Speaker 4: and that there is so much that you can find

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Speaker 4: out if you have a joney in your back pocket,

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Speaker 4: asking the tough questions and finding out key pieces of information.

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Speaker 3: But obviously you want all of that to happen early on.

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Speaker 4: The challenge with cold cases, isn't it that a lot

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Speaker 4: of times the archived material is no longer available. You

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Speaker 4: need another power of attorney document or some lawyer for this,

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Speaker 4: and another lawyer for that.

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Speaker 3: And that's the challenge.

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Speaker 4: And you know, for marrying, had all the things have

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Speaker 4: been done about finding the money, trail following the money

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Speaker 4: to begin with, you would have the answers and you

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Speaker 4: wouldn't be in this situation traveling across Europe, you know,

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Speaker 4: in a very tight time capsule of two days in

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Speaker 4: different places in Luxembourg and France and Belgium.

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Speaker 3: And the UK, you know.

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Speaker 4: And I'd love to hear a little bit more just

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Speaker 4: about some of the things that were significant, because yes,

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Speaker 4: I've listened to your podcast and you know, was cheering

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Speaker 4: you on the whole way. For me, I'm curious about

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Speaker 4: what you both found having been in situ going to

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Speaker 4: these places, asking the questions, what were the things that

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Speaker 4: really popped out to you that maybe changed your thinking

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Speaker 4: or reinforced your thinking. Were there some significant moments that

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Speaker 4: really stood out to you both?

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Speaker 6: Look the actual trip for me, as you said, Laura,

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Speaker 6: because we were bouncing in and out, we knew very

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Speaker 6: well that we were not going to be embedded in

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Speaker 6: one particular location for you know, like a week or

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Speaker 6: two weeks when I would do an archive newspaper search

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Speaker 6: where we are literally pulling out volumes of newspapers. Some

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Speaker 6: of them in France even had moths through them, so

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Speaker 6: they literally hadn't been open for years and years and years.

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Speaker 6: So this is not stuff that's online that you can

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Speaker 6: get online and instantly search so ideally, say lil in France,

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Speaker 6: we could have been there for whatsals three or four weeks,

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Speaker 6: but at the end of the day, dipping in and out,

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Speaker 6: we actually got a real taste of all of the

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Speaker 6: locations where mister Bloom and also sales Mum of course

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Speaker 6: had been over that time. And to me that was

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Speaker 6: quite significant to within my thinking and being a person

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Speaker 6: that I think knows this case very well by now

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Speaker 6: after six years doing so, I think, to be able

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Speaker 6: to even just be in those locations and actually see

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Speaker 6: what mister Bloom was, see the sort of nooks and

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Speaker 6: crannies that he was able to land himself in and

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Speaker 6: sort of hide in in a way within these locations

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Speaker 6: was very good. Also, going to a lot of flea markets,

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Speaker 6: second hand places, antique dealers, coin dealers, gold bullion dealers,

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Speaker 6: So we went into all these locations where mister Bloom

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Speaker 6: would sort of be in an attempt to get information. Now,

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Speaker 6: gladly enough, we have been able to gain a significant

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Speaker 6: piece of information just recently in the past week that

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Speaker 6: we unfortunately can't talk about today but we hope to

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Speaker 6: be able to talk about in the future, which has

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Speaker 6: come from established contact and communication as a result of

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Speaker 6: that trip with someone in another country who has basically

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Speaker 6: said enough is enough and whether I can get this

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Speaker 6: information legally or legally, I'm going to do it. As

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Speaker 6: a result of that, we now do have a piece

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Speaker 6: of information that is could be utilized to actually break

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Speaker 6: the case wide open. So again, yes, we did go

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Speaker 6: on this massive round trip, day in, day out, different place,

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Speaker 6: different hotel, different beds, set up, different open shutcases. You know,

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Speaker 6: Taxis salves awesome. She basically led us from Asia into

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Speaker 6: Europe and then back into Australia again. So there have

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Speaker 6: been pieces of information. I wish we had had another

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Speaker 6: six months, twelve months, but I think our family would

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Speaker 6: have missed us too much to actually go go and

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Speaker 6: do it for that long. But yeah, and the other

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Speaker 6: key for me was the bureaucracy, Laura, the bureaucracy, and

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Speaker 6: I never actually thought about it until now, until you

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Speaker 6: said it earlier.

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Speaker 5: On the bureaucracy.

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Speaker 6: They were the doors that were shut. That was the crappy, muddy, horrible,

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Speaker 6: disgusting yellow phone on the outside wall of the Kent

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Speaker 6: Police station where we had to get twenty five million

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Speaker 6: wipes out of our bag. To be able to even

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Speaker 6: have sal even hold the phone.

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Speaker 5: I mean, how.

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Speaker 6: Disrespectful is that to a person with a missing person

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Speaker 6: to not even have an open door and to have

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Speaker 6: to stand outside a building with a crappy phone. And

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Speaker 6: then the phone cuts out, and so then Sale walks

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Speaker 6: away and as she's walking away, that phone rings again.

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Speaker 6: So she is running across the road from one side

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Speaker 6: to the other to run to scoop up that phone,

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Speaker 6: and she says hello, and the person is ringing her

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Speaker 6: back on the police phone. Laura, honestly, what is that about?

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Speaker 6: What is that about?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I'll firstly pick up on Kem Police and

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Speaker 4: obviously I'm not in policing in the UK anymore, but

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Speaker 4: to apologize for that experience, I mean, a lot of

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Speaker 4: the police stations have closed, but it is unacceptable that

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Speaker 4: you've got people who may be reporting, you know, for

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Speaker 4: the first time or something serious and they're having to

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Speaker 4: hold this phone and shout down the end of it

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Speaker 4: and it cutting off, and that just sounds horrific. And

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Speaker 4: I know you laughed about it in the moment, because

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Speaker 4: if you don't laugh, you cry, and it becomes overwhelming.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time, it's not acceptable, and.

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Speaker 4: I'm glad that the call handler whoever you spoke to

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Speaker 4: was professional and good, but that is not okay, particularly

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Speaker 4: when you've traveled from the other side of the world

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Speaker 4: to have a conversation about your mum. You know, there's

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Speaker 4: still a lot to learn. We're in We're meant to

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Speaker 4: be twenty twenty five. I feel like we've gone back

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Speaker 4: to the seventies with something like that.

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Speaker 2: I agree, it was like everyone you know, remember when

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Speaker 2: I was growing up in Australia, no one was opened

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Speaker 2: on a Sunday. But ride your bike around as a kid.

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Speaker 2: You're lucky if the news agents was open in the

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Speaker 2: morning and you could go and get some lollies or something.

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Speaker 2: But generally everyone was shut and everyone had a rest day.

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Speaker 2: I felt like we had gone back to that. I

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Speaker 2: felt like we were back in those days where things

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Speaker 2: were shut and important place were shut. And just to

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Speaker 2: recap on a memory that some people might have forgotten.

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Speaker 2: The reason I went to camp Police was because I

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Speaker 2: went there in May of twenty nineteen and I made

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Speaker 2: a report with them and sat down inside that police

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Speaker 2: station with an officer who took a good amount of

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Speaker 2: time to sit down. He'd looked at me online and

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Speaker 2: he'd understood what was happening. The Lady Vanisher's team had

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Speaker 2: rung forward in advance and said we were coming, but

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Speaker 2: they couldn't take any of my DNA, They couldn't take

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Speaker 2: any formal statement from me because they kept pushing it back,

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Speaker 2: which is the general state of affairs in this case.

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Speaker 2: It has to come from New South Wales Police. If

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Speaker 2: you want it done, it has to be them who's

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Speaker 2: driving that. So I was literally going back to Kent

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Speaker 2: Police with Joonie to say we even stayed on the

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Speaker 2: same street, like that's how keen we were and how

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Speaker 2: important Kent Police was for us. We were able to

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Speaker 2: access it as easily as we could, and I wanted

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Speaker 2: to go back there because we wanted to just give

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Speaker 2: them an update on the current situation. We now have

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Speaker 2: a person who has been on my mum's case inside

396
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Speaker 2: the inquest and we know that he lived in Burwash,

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Speaker 2: which is within that realm of Tunbridge Wells.

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Speaker 1: Back in the eighties.

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Speaker 2: So that's why that was important, just to put some

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Speaker 2: clarity into it. It wasn't like we were just rocking up

401
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:39,880
Speaker 2: to the police station. We really wanted to go and

402
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 2: give them an update and talk to somebody. And when

403
00:21:42,041 --> 00:21:43,721
Speaker 2: I spoke to the lady on the phone, she looked

404
00:21:43,761 --> 00:21:46,161
Speaker 2: up my mum's name in both names.

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Speaker 1: Marion Barter and Flora Bella Ramichel. No record found.

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Speaker 4: And I wonder, Sally, whether Kent Police may have anything

407
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Speaker 4: on him, you know, in terms of historical I mean,

408
00:21:59,281 --> 00:22:02,001
Speaker 4: that would be very interesting, giving now that you've got

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Speaker 4: a name.

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Speaker 3: He was on your mum's timeline.

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Speaker 4: Obviously there are more to pull names, but even doing

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00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 4: that cursory search, which would probably again have to be

413
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Speaker 4: from New South Wales Police requesting that information. But given

414
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Speaker 4: that he did spend time there, that's where my brain

415
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 4: goes of what's known about him, as well as obviously

416
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Speaker 4: your mum certainly.

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Speaker 6: I mean there is one report of him, because Gilly

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Speaker 6: and the neighbor did make a report about him to

419
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Speaker 6: Tambridge Well's Police to Kent Police back in nineteen eighty

420
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Speaker 6: four about him having his van sitting in her farm

421
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Speaker 6: lot and him leaving in the early evening and then

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Speaker 6: returning in the early morning and walking back to his home.

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Speaker 6: So there is at least one report there on him.

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Speaker 4: Interesting and I think, Jennie, you know what you said

425
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Speaker 4: is very intriguing to me of a piece of information

426
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 4: that's come in excavated really from you going out and

427
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,241
Speaker 4: meeting people. You never really know what the free so

428
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,400
Speaker 4: that label will be right, and there's no substitute for

429
00:23:08,481 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 4: FaceTime with someone. And it might be that you didn't

430
00:23:11,681 --> 00:23:14,121
Speaker 4: get that information immediately at the time. But if that

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Speaker 4: bears fruit, which I hope it does, I really want

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Speaker 4: to know what it is. By the way, my curiosity

433
00:23:20,321 --> 00:23:23,041
Speaker 4: is getting the better of me. But breaking the case

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Speaker 4: wide open, that's exactly what you need, just this one

435
00:23:25,761 --> 00:23:29,001
Speaker 4: nugget that could just turn everything on its head.

436
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 2: And I think the reason why, particularly me, but I

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00:23:32,481 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 2: know Joni does as well, and I know you do too, Laura,

438
00:23:34,961 --> 00:23:37,921
Speaker 2: is the integrity of the case is prime.

439
00:23:38,521 --> 00:23:41,241
Speaker 1: If we go and tell everybody everything and.

440
00:23:41,201 --> 00:23:43,561
Speaker 2: We put it out there into the universe, that means

441
00:23:43,561 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 2: that everyone hears it. So we need to be clever

442
00:23:48,681 --> 00:23:51,321
Speaker 2: in keeping our information and our cards close to our

443
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 2: chest because that gives us power.

444
00:23:54,481 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 6: I hope that mister Blinde listens to this podcast, That's

445
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 6: all I'll say.

446
00:23:59,321 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you shake the tree, you don't know

447
00:24:01,201 --> 00:24:03,561
Speaker 4: what will fall out. But with someone like him and

448
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,241
Speaker 4: his extensive time, timeline. I mean, for me, the case

449
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 4: is always it's always been about victimology, the victims that

450
00:24:10,801 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 4: he's targeted, the timeline, and the money and those three

451
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,561
Speaker 4: things coming together. And there are so many people who

452
00:24:21,561 --> 00:24:27,001
Speaker 4: hold pieces of information, and it's just getting your voices

453
00:24:27,441 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 4: and faces out to the right places. And then I

454
00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 4: know you've been dealing with so much information coming back in.

455
00:24:33,201 --> 00:24:35,841
Speaker 4: You have to sort through it all and figure out

456
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,001
Speaker 4: what you do with it next.

457
00:24:37,041 --> 00:24:40,521
Speaker 3: And I know that's not easy either what you put into.

458
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,881
Speaker 4: The public domain and what time you put it in

459
00:24:42,921 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 4: and when and how, and what's the repercussions if you

460
00:24:45,921 --> 00:24:49,241
Speaker 4: do A rather than B. And there's a big cognitive

461
00:24:49,281 --> 00:24:52,241
Speaker 4: load here. So you know, I say that my curiosity

462
00:24:52,321 --> 00:24:56,001
Speaker 4: is peeking because it is. And you know, I still

463
00:24:56,041 --> 00:25:00,281
Speaker 4: feel optimistic the truth will out. I've always felt that,

464
00:25:00,561 --> 00:25:03,761
Speaker 4: And I know it's incredibly frustrating because.

465
00:25:03,481 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 3: It hasn't happened quick.

466
00:25:04,721 --> 00:25:08,321
Speaker 4: Enough, but I really do hope that for me, this

467
00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 4: is a hidden homicide. It's a hidden homicide case, and

468
00:25:11,001 --> 00:25:14,321
Speaker 4: you are excavating all these different parts to it, and

469
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 4: it takes time, and I know, you know, I was

470
00:25:17,041 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 4: very conscious Sally of something that you said, which was

471
00:25:21,001 --> 00:25:24,961
Speaker 4: that you've never really marked your mum and memorialized her

472
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 4: or celebrated her life in this whole journey, and that

473
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 4: really struck me of how tough that is actually to

474
00:25:32,001 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 4: be constantly having to be the one to ask the

475
00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:40,401
Speaker 4: questions and never really being able to memorialize your mum

476
00:25:40,561 --> 00:25:44,241
Speaker 4: or pay tribute to her or celebrate her. That's a

477
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:46,561
Speaker 4: very heavy burden. So I was really happy to hear

478
00:25:46,681 --> 00:25:49,641
Speaker 4: that you're going to be doing that for the eightieth birthday,

479
00:25:49,681 --> 00:25:51,921
Speaker 4: and you're going to be having a high tea, which

480
00:25:51,961 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 4: I'm sure she would have absolutely loved, and you're not

481
00:25:54,441 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 4: doing the walk anymore, because obviously I was going to

482
00:25:56,521 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 4: gear up to do that, but I love a bit

483
00:25:58,721 --> 00:26:01,801
Speaker 4: of high tea and I'm really pleased that you are

484
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 4: going to be doing that in September.

485
00:26:05,441 --> 00:26:08,001
Speaker 2: I had a note here actually to tell you because

486
00:26:08,201 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 2: we had all these people. I don't know if you

487
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 2: saw on my Facebook page, but I've put a thing

488
00:26:12,561 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 2: out I said, I've got a special guest coming to

489
00:26:15,561 --> 00:26:19,041
Speaker 2: the high tea. So we're having a high tea in September,

490
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 2: September twenty eighth here in Brisbane. It's in a beautiful

491
00:26:22,921 --> 00:26:26,801
Speaker 2: old Queenslander outside in the garden. We've got beautiful bone

492
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 2: china teacups and gorgeous little spoons and yummy food my

493
00:26:32,761 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 2: mom's favorite flowers.

494
00:26:34,481 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 1: And that event is sold out now.

495
00:26:36,961 --> 00:26:42,281
Speaker 2: Actually, to my absolute humbled mind, I just actually didn't

496
00:26:42,281 --> 00:26:44,161
Speaker 2: know what I was going to expect when I put

497
00:26:44,201 --> 00:26:47,041
Speaker 2: these things out into the universe. But so many people

498
00:26:47,041 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 2: when I said it was a surprise guest Laura, they

499
00:26:49,481 --> 00:26:49,801
Speaker 2: were like.

500
00:26:49,801 --> 00:26:52,801
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I hope it's Laura Richard. I hope

501
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: Laura's coming. I'm like, well, it's only a twelve hour flight.

502
00:26:56,681 --> 00:26:58,561
Speaker 2: She can always hang out at my house if she

503
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,561
Speaker 2: wants to come, Like, you know, so the opportunity and

504
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 2: the invitation.

505
00:27:02,481 --> 00:27:03,761
Speaker 1: Is there, Laura, if you're free.

506
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,561
Speaker 2: I know you're so busy, but maybe a trip to

507
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,521
Speaker 2: Australia wouldn't It's too far out of the realm, but

508
00:27:08,761 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 2: possible in a couple of weeks time. But we are

509
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,321
Speaker 2: having Headley Thomas come. Most people who listen to podcasts

510
00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:17,801
Speaker 2: will know who Headley is. He is a superstar in

511
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,761
Speaker 2: his own right. We're doing lots of amazing podcasts, particularly

512
00:27:22,041 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 2: for missing and murdered women, so we're looking forward to

513
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,641
Speaker 2: having Headley there. Joanie is coming up from Melbourne as well,

514
00:27:28,681 --> 00:27:31,521
Speaker 2: so she's going to be there along with amazing other

515
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,721
Speaker 2: humans who are helping in that space. Now, I want

516
00:27:34,761 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 2: to just clarify, Laura, I still want you to do

517
00:27:36,761 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 2: a walk on Sunday, the fifth of October, and you

518
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 2: need to wear some green and I want you to

519
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 2: do the hashtag the Missing matter and pop it on

520
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,281
Speaker 2: your socials for me. So the reason the walk stopped

521
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 2: is because it just became so difficult to get it

522
00:27:53,281 --> 00:27:56,401
Speaker 2: to happen. And I was heartbroken when I told everybody

523
00:27:56,441 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 2: working behind the scenes, and I've got fifty eight people

524
00:27:59,481 --> 00:28:02,001
Speaker 2: in that group who were helping me to set up

525
00:28:02,201 --> 00:28:04,521
Speaker 2: to do these walks. I had you down actually doing

526
00:28:04,521 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 2: a walk around on Santa Monica on the beach because

527
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 2: we know my mum loved the beach.

528
00:28:08,721 --> 00:28:12,041
Speaker 1: But we had people in Seattle, we had people in.

529
00:28:12,041 --> 00:28:18,561
Speaker 2: Scotland, London, Hastings, Tunbridge, Wells all throughout Australia New Zealand

530
00:28:18,961 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 2: who were saying, we're going to do a walk for

531
00:28:21,241 --> 00:28:24,041
Speaker 2: your mum and for all the missing on the fifth

532
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:25,721
Speaker 2: of October. So this is sort of where it just

533
00:28:25,801 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 2: kept growing from there, and it's about not just for

534
00:28:29,481 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 2: my mum, It's for all the missing because they all matter.

535
00:28:32,761 --> 00:28:36,201
Speaker 2: And this is where I kept going with this conversation

536
00:28:36,321 --> 00:28:39,001
Speaker 2: and how this podcast has all come about. That I'm

537
00:28:39,081 --> 00:28:43,041
Speaker 2: doing because people do matter, and why should someone matter

538
00:28:43,081 --> 00:28:46,041
Speaker 2: more than the other. They all matter equally in my heart.

539
00:28:46,201 --> 00:28:50,441
Speaker 2: So everybody deserves an opportunity to tell their story. Everybody

540
00:28:50,561 --> 00:28:54,161
Speaker 2: deserves to be remembered. And I've decided to do a

541
00:28:54,201 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 2: project called the Green Seat project, which we are working

542
00:28:59,521 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 2: at the moment on a pilot here in Brisbane to

543
00:29:04,001 --> 00:29:06,961
Speaker 2: do a green seat. It will have the Missing Matter

544
00:29:07,401 --> 00:29:10,081
Speaker 2: on the seat and will have a QR code and

545
00:29:10,121 --> 00:29:12,521
Speaker 2: when people scan the QR code, it will take them

546
00:29:12,561 --> 00:29:16,281
Speaker 2: to the website the Missing Matter, so www dot the

547
00:29:16,281 --> 00:29:17,321
Speaker 2: missingmatter dot com.

548
00:29:17,361 --> 00:29:18,281
Speaker 1: It's up and running.

549
00:29:18,361 --> 00:29:21,601
Speaker 2: We're just working now on this next phase of having

550
00:29:22,041 --> 00:29:25,961
Speaker 2: a green seat project under that platform where you can

551
00:29:26,001 --> 00:29:28,081
Speaker 2: go in and you can actually read about people who

552
00:29:28,121 --> 00:29:31,001
Speaker 2: are missing. So the idea is it'll be in a

553
00:29:31,041 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 2: public space where people are busy.

554
00:29:33,321 --> 00:29:34,801
Speaker 1: They might sit and have a.

555
00:29:34,841 --> 00:29:37,001
Speaker 2: Drink of water when they're on a walk, they might

556
00:29:37,041 --> 00:29:40,001
Speaker 2: just take some time out and reflect and just make

557
00:29:40,081 --> 00:29:43,281
Speaker 2: them question what is that about the Missing Matter?

558
00:29:43,881 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: Because so often we sort of hear about it.

559
00:29:46,721 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 2: It's a big flurry in the news for two weeks,

560
00:29:48,841 --> 00:29:51,681
Speaker 2: and then they're just pushed over here because we get

561
00:29:51,721 --> 00:29:54,201
Speaker 2: told that police don't have the resources to keep going,

562
00:29:54,521 --> 00:29:57,281
Speaker 2: and it's left and dumped pretty much on the families

563
00:29:57,281 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 2: to actually keep managing the search and looking. In most cases,

564
00:30:01,241 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 2: I would say nine to nine percent of the cases

565
00:30:03,321 --> 00:30:06,841
Speaker 2: around the world. My goal is to try and get

566
00:30:06,881 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 2: these green seats happening everywhere, because there are missing people

567
00:30:10,561 --> 00:30:12,921
Speaker 2: everywhere and I would like people to be able to

568
00:30:12,921 --> 00:30:16,681
Speaker 2: sit and reflect. I was absolutely mortified when I spoke

569
00:30:16,721 --> 00:30:18,921
Speaker 2: to Brisbane City Council for the first time and they

570
00:30:19,441 --> 00:30:22,041
Speaker 2: and I shouldn't say mortified, that's not the right word,

571
00:30:22,241 --> 00:30:25,001
Speaker 2: I guess, but they gave me an option when I

572
00:30:25,041 --> 00:30:28,041
Speaker 2: suggested doing this over a year ago. The option for

573
00:30:28,161 --> 00:30:32,081
Speaker 2: me was that they actually have a missing person memorial

574
00:30:32,521 --> 00:30:35,601
Speaker 2: in a cemetery on the north side of Brisbane and

575
00:30:35,601 --> 00:30:40,121
Speaker 2: that potentially perhaps I should just go there to memorialize

576
00:30:40,241 --> 00:30:44,401
Speaker 2: or remember my mother. And I went back to them

577
00:30:44,401 --> 00:30:46,241
Speaker 2: and I said, the problem that I have with this

578
00:30:46,881 --> 00:30:50,401
Speaker 2: is that one I'm trying to bring awareness to the

579
00:30:50,401 --> 00:30:54,041
Speaker 2: space and no one's going to the memorial site in

580
00:30:54,081 --> 00:30:56,881
Speaker 2: the cemetery on the north of Brisbane to remember the missing.

581
00:30:57,081 --> 00:30:58,201
Speaker 1: That's the first problem.

582
00:30:58,601 --> 00:31:01,601
Speaker 2: Second, I don't have a body, so I don't want

583
00:31:01,601 --> 00:31:04,361
Speaker 2: to go to a cemetery to remember my mother.

584
00:31:04,481 --> 00:31:06,601
Speaker 1: I want to look look at the river, I want

585
00:31:06,641 --> 00:31:07,841
Speaker 1: to live, look at the ocean.

586
00:31:07,881 --> 00:31:09,921
Speaker 2: I want to look at the mountains, and I want

587
00:31:09,921 --> 00:31:12,321
Speaker 2: to be able to openly think where could she be.

588
00:31:12,761 --> 00:31:16,081
Speaker 2: She's missing out there somewhere. I need to find her.

589
00:31:16,521 --> 00:31:19,321
Speaker 2: So that was my thought process behind it. I'm very

590
00:31:19,321 --> 00:31:21,761
Speaker 2: glad that I've got a couple of great humans down

591
00:31:21,761 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 2: on the Gold Coasts who have reached out as well.

592
00:31:23,961 --> 00:31:25,401
Speaker 1: They're very excited.

593
00:31:25,001 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 2: About helping me, which I thought was kind of pointing

594
00:31:28,521 --> 00:31:29,921
Speaker 2: in for the fact that my mum lived on the

595
00:31:29,921 --> 00:31:32,681
Speaker 2: Gold Coast and that was the last time she was

596
00:31:32,721 --> 00:31:34,161
Speaker 2: seen was on the Gold Coast, so.

597
00:31:34,601 --> 00:31:38,721
Speaker 1: Kind of it just warms my heart to.

598
00:31:38,641 --> 00:31:41,161
Speaker 2: Know that people actually care enough to actually reach out

599
00:31:41,161 --> 00:31:43,161
Speaker 2: to me and say, hey, Sally, we'd like to help you.

600
00:31:44,361 --> 00:31:48,561
Speaker 2: And that's moving forward quite well, and I'm super excited

601
00:31:48,561 --> 00:31:52,521
Speaker 2: about that location and potentially what's happening there. They sent

602
00:31:52,561 --> 00:31:55,481
Speaker 2: me through plans and things yesterday, so it's really happening,

603
00:31:55,521 --> 00:31:57,561
Speaker 2: and I'm so super super happy. That's the first time

604
00:31:57,601 --> 00:32:00,481
Speaker 2: anyone's heard that. By the way, I haven't told anybody else.

605
00:32:00,561 --> 00:32:03,681
Speaker 2: So there are good things happening in this space. And

606
00:32:04,041 --> 00:32:06,481
Speaker 2: I want people to be remembered. I want people to

607
00:32:07,241 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 2: know that they matter. I want their families to know

608
00:32:09,601 --> 00:32:13,481
Speaker 2: that their person matters. And that's where this whole thing

609
00:32:13,561 --> 00:32:17,641
Speaker 2: comes from. It's what it's born from. So my mum matters, yes,

610
00:32:17,681 --> 00:32:22,441
Speaker 2: and she is my key concentration in my own head.

611
00:32:22,561 --> 00:32:25,921
Speaker 2: But I have time and ability and effort to help others.

612
00:32:26,161 --> 00:32:28,881
Speaker 2: And if I can do that by sharing their stories

613
00:32:28,921 --> 00:32:31,681
Speaker 2: on the Missing Matter podcast, if I can help bring

614
00:32:31,721 --> 00:32:34,321
Speaker 2: awareness by a green bench seat where someone can sit

615
00:32:34,401 --> 00:32:37,121
Speaker 2: down and have a coffee and just pause for one minute,

616
00:32:37,201 --> 00:32:39,961
Speaker 2: who's to say that someone doesn't scan that QR code

617
00:32:39,961 --> 00:32:42,841
Speaker 2: and look at a story and remember somebody and go

618
00:32:42,921 --> 00:32:45,401
Speaker 2: I didn't realize I were missing. I remember her, I

619
00:32:45,441 --> 00:32:46,041
Speaker 2: remember him.

620
00:32:46,401 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 3: Well, that's incredible.

621
00:32:47,921 --> 00:32:51,561
Speaker 4: On the other really, you know, incredible, Sally, And you know, really,

622
00:32:51,561 --> 00:32:52,841
Speaker 4: I don't think you're doing enough.

623
00:32:53,401 --> 00:32:56,281
Speaker 3: You need to be doing more. I mean, your plate

624
00:32:56,361 --> 00:32:57,321
Speaker 3: is very full.

625
00:32:58,161 --> 00:33:00,321
Speaker 4: This is a lot that you're doing born out of

626
00:33:00,361 --> 00:33:03,881
Speaker 4: the legacy of Marion, which what an incredible legacy. But

627
00:33:03,961 --> 00:33:06,361
Speaker 4: I just want to pay tribut to you hearing all

628
00:33:06,401 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 4: of that. I mean, that is an awful lot for

629
00:33:10,001 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 4: I know you've got great people around you, but to

630
00:33:12,361 --> 00:33:15,081
Speaker 4: take on and to do but also be making inroads

631
00:33:15,121 --> 00:33:18,001
Speaker 4: and making it happen. And I just listen to you

632
00:33:18,921 --> 00:33:21,881
Speaker 4: explain about why the cemetery wouldn't work. This is why

633
00:33:21,921 --> 00:33:25,401
Speaker 4: it's so important to listen and meet people where they're

634
00:33:25,441 --> 00:33:28,841
Speaker 4: at and understand why that wouldn't work for you and

635
00:33:28,881 --> 00:33:31,561
Speaker 4: wouldn't work for lots of other families. But to have

636
00:33:31,601 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 4: a place to go where you can look out and

637
00:33:34,281 --> 00:33:38,881
Speaker 4: think about and reflect on and somewhere that is beauty,

638
00:33:39,161 --> 00:33:43,561
Speaker 4: somewhere that feels good for the soul, to think about

639
00:33:43,841 --> 00:33:45,681
Speaker 4: your mum and where she might be in the world.

640
00:33:45,761 --> 00:33:48,841
Speaker 4: I mean, it makes absolute sense. But you're the one

641
00:33:49,361 --> 00:33:53,681
Speaker 4: having to make that happen and advocate for all the

642
00:33:53,721 --> 00:33:56,641
Speaker 4: other missing as well, and turning your podcast now into

643
00:33:56,801 --> 00:33:58,521
Speaker 4: a much bigger platform.

644
00:33:58,041 --> 00:34:00,521
Speaker 3: To help people. I know that will be a heavy

645
00:34:00,601 --> 00:34:01,401
Speaker 3: burden on.

646
00:34:01,281 --> 00:34:04,281
Speaker 4: Your soul too. It's not easy stuff to have to

647
00:34:04,361 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 4: move through. And I just want to pay tribute to

648
00:34:07,041 --> 00:34:10,121
Speaker 4: you because you are carrying an awful lot. You do

649
00:34:10,241 --> 00:34:14,001
Speaker 4: it with such grace and dignity, but it is a

650
00:34:14,081 --> 00:34:17,841
Speaker 4: huge amount to carry. And of course the investigation into

651
00:34:17,881 --> 00:34:21,361
Speaker 4: what happened to your mum is still ongoing too, And

652
00:34:21,401 --> 00:34:23,841
Speaker 4: I hope you get to a point where you know,

653
00:34:23,841 --> 00:34:27,481
Speaker 4: I heard Gary Dublin ask you the question where is

654
00:34:27,521 --> 00:34:28,321
Speaker 4: the stop point?

655
00:34:28,361 --> 00:34:31,721
Speaker 3: But I know that there won't.

656
00:34:31,401 --> 00:34:33,841
Speaker 4: Be a stop point, particularly when you've got you know,

657
00:34:33,881 --> 00:34:36,441
Speaker 4: you've shaken the tree in lots of different countries and

658
00:34:36,521 --> 00:34:38,321
Speaker 4: things are a popping.

659
00:34:39,041 --> 00:34:40,281
Speaker 3: You still have to pursue that.

660
00:34:40,441 --> 00:34:42,921
Speaker 4: And I know with Joni, I think I understand her

661
00:34:42,961 --> 00:34:46,361
Speaker 4: psychology that she's going to keep going until you reach

662
00:34:47,921 --> 00:34:51,041
Speaker 4: the end of all those lines of inquiry and investigation.

663
00:34:54,361 --> 00:34:57,241
Speaker 2: And this is why I feel very fortunate in this space,

664
00:34:57,401 --> 00:35:02,081
Speaker 2: because I can't do everything and Joanie is here right

665
00:35:02,121 --> 00:35:04,361
Speaker 2: by my side, and she picks it up and she

666
00:35:04,441 --> 00:35:06,881
Speaker 2: runs with it. And you know, we are speaking to

667
00:35:06,921 --> 00:35:09,121
Speaker 2: people in the UK who are.

668
00:35:09,281 --> 00:35:12,361
Speaker 1: Very high level. Again, we won't mention this yet.

669
00:35:12,601 --> 00:35:15,041
Speaker 2: We'll come back and talk about it another time, but

670
00:35:15,561 --> 00:35:18,001
Speaker 2: you know I put a call out people come into

671
00:35:18,081 --> 00:35:20,321
Speaker 2: that space going We're happy to help. These are big

672
00:35:20,361 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 2: wigs over in the UK working hard now to try

673
00:35:24,001 --> 00:35:26,881
Speaker 2: and help us in an area that we requested help from.

674
00:35:27,161 --> 00:35:28,881
Speaker 2: And I just said to Journey the other day, like,

675
00:35:29,241 --> 00:35:32,281
Speaker 2: these guys are so conscientious and we're getting so many emails,

676
00:35:32,321 --> 00:35:35,041
Speaker 2: and I just said, oh, I'm sinking a little bit.

677
00:35:35,281 --> 00:35:38,241
Speaker 2: And that's the reality, right, I'm not a superhero. I

678
00:35:38,281 --> 00:35:40,601
Speaker 2: can't do all these things without having a moment where

679
00:35:40,641 --> 00:35:42,681
Speaker 2: I go I just actually don't think I can do

680
00:35:42,801 --> 00:35:45,721
Speaker 2: that today. And Joanie just said to me, you don't

681
00:35:45,761 --> 00:35:48,361
Speaker 2: worry about it. I can look after this bit. And

682
00:35:48,561 --> 00:35:52,801
Speaker 2: it's such a relief, Like I owe that woman so

683
00:35:53,001 --> 00:35:56,081
Speaker 2: much in my life, and I'm super super grateful to you.

684
00:35:56,161 --> 00:35:58,041
Speaker 1: Joanie. I know you're sitting right there and it's kind

685
00:35:58,041 --> 00:36:00,001
Speaker 1: of weird to say it to you like this.

686
00:35:59,961 --> 00:36:03,161
Speaker 2: But it is just important to know that people do

687
00:36:03,361 --> 00:36:06,801
Speaker 2: need people like you in the space, even if it's

688
00:36:06,881 --> 00:36:08,881
Speaker 2: just to let me do that for you, let me

689
00:36:08,961 --> 00:36:13,321
Speaker 2: take that away and take that off your shoulders, even

690
00:36:13,361 --> 00:36:16,081
Speaker 2: if it's just for five minutes. It's just knowing that

691
00:36:16,121 --> 00:36:19,041
Speaker 2: I have you there, and I know that your background

692
00:36:19,041 --> 00:36:22,601
Speaker 2: and your information and your knowledge behind the story. I'm

693
00:36:22,681 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 2: confident in you that you are with me, knowing the

694
00:36:26,441 --> 00:36:30,041
Speaker 2: facts and knowing the detail and that is what keeps

695
00:36:30,161 --> 00:36:32,361
Speaker 2: me going as well. So I know that I can

696
00:36:32,401 --> 00:36:35,921
Speaker 2: take time out of that side of the fence to

697
00:36:35,961 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 2: go and focus on doing something good over here, which

698
00:36:38,481 --> 00:36:41,641
Speaker 2: is good for me and good for people in our space,

699
00:36:41,761 --> 00:36:44,921
Speaker 2: like the Green Seat Project, like having memorial high te's.

700
00:36:45,241 --> 00:36:47,961
Speaker 2: They're a busy thing to plan and we're not just

701
00:36:48,001 --> 00:36:50,441
Speaker 2: doing one. I've got people now who said, oh, well,

702
00:36:50,521 --> 00:36:52,521
Speaker 2: we wanted to come to Brisbane, but you know, we're

703
00:36:52,561 --> 00:36:54,921
Speaker 2: in Sydney. So they're hosting one in Sydney and then

704
00:36:54,961 --> 00:36:58,001
Speaker 2: girls down in Newcastle where there are an abundance of

705
00:36:58,041 --> 00:37:02,321
Speaker 2: missing people over a stretch of long time. They've decided

706
00:37:02,321 --> 00:37:04,801
Speaker 2: they want to have a high tea as well, which

707
00:37:04,801 --> 00:37:07,321
Speaker 2: is to anybody who would like to come. And then

708
00:37:07,361 --> 00:37:09,881
Speaker 2: on the actual Friday, so Mum's we're having the high

709
00:37:09,921 --> 00:37:12,321
Speaker 2: tea in Brisbane on the Sunday. Then I'm flying down

710
00:37:12,361 --> 00:37:16,121
Speaker 2: to Brisbane to Sydney. From Brisbane, I'm taking Darcy with

711
00:37:16,201 --> 00:37:20,001
Speaker 2: me and we are celebrating my mom's actual eightieth birthday

712
00:37:20,201 --> 00:37:24,961
Speaker 2: at a beautiful hotel in the back hills of Durringo

713
00:37:25,041 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 2: and Kayama, where my mom and I lived, where we've

714
00:37:28,481 --> 00:37:31,241
Speaker 2: got lots of friends and people that she worked with

715
00:37:31,281 --> 00:37:33,721
Speaker 2: all up and down the south coast of New South Wales,

716
00:37:34,961 --> 00:37:39,041
Speaker 2: and those people are coming and we're celebrating mum at

717
00:37:39,081 --> 00:37:39,921
Speaker 2: another high tea.

718
00:37:40,241 --> 00:37:41,321
Speaker 1: We're having met.

719
00:37:41,241 --> 00:37:46,201
Speaker 2: Multiple ideas that week to celebrate on her actual birthday.

720
00:37:46,281 --> 00:37:49,881
Speaker 2: So one of my mom's longest friend, Carolyn, she's coming.

721
00:37:49,961 --> 00:37:52,881
Speaker 2: She lives down that neck of the woods and my

722
00:37:53,041 --> 00:37:56,921
Speaker 2: mum was her bridesmaid at her wedding, so they have

723
00:37:57,001 --> 00:37:57,721
Speaker 2: been friends for.

724
00:37:57,681 --> 00:37:58,801
Speaker 1: A very long time.

725
00:37:59,161 --> 00:38:02,001
Speaker 2: And you know, I wanted to do something not just

726
00:38:02,041 --> 00:38:05,161
Speaker 2: for me, but for my mum's friends too, because they

727
00:38:05,161 --> 00:38:08,641
Speaker 2: miss her. My mom's friends adore her and miss her

728
00:38:08,761 --> 00:38:11,961
Speaker 2: as well. This is not just about me, so I

729
00:38:12,001 --> 00:38:14,721
Speaker 2: wanted to do something for her friends as well.

730
00:38:15,121 --> 00:38:17,121
Speaker 5: Thank you very much for all your kind words.

731
00:38:17,121 --> 00:38:21,921
Speaker 6: Sal I think it's just it really is about people

732
00:38:22,001 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 6: like myself, people like you, Laura, people like a whole

733
00:38:25,441 --> 00:38:28,841
Speaker 6: lot of other people, all the communities, your squad that

734
00:38:28,881 --> 00:38:32,201
Speaker 6: you've got happening with crime analysts. It's about all the

735
00:38:32,241 --> 00:38:36,241
Speaker 6: people that surround seal on social media. It's the people

736
00:38:36,281 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 6: that are putting their hands up and saying I'll help

737
00:38:38,481 --> 00:38:41,681
Speaker 6: with this portion all that to me, it almost instills

738
00:38:41,721 --> 00:38:44,721
Speaker 6: that there are more good than bad people. Like at

739
00:38:44,721 --> 00:38:47,121
Speaker 6: the end of the day, if I just feel that

740
00:38:47,721 --> 00:38:50,561
Speaker 6: all of us are two seconds away from being in

741
00:38:50,601 --> 00:38:54,481
Speaker 6: the same situation as Sol. So I think also we

742
00:38:54,521 --> 00:38:57,481
Speaker 6: can't get to ahead of ourselves as someone without a

743
00:38:57,521 --> 00:39:00,721
Speaker 6: missing person in our lives and say well that you know,

744
00:39:00,921 --> 00:39:03,921
Speaker 6: oh I help that poor person, that'll never happen to me.

745
00:39:04,921 --> 00:39:09,401
Speaker 6: Actually very untrue. Five minutes time, I could be missing

746
00:39:09,441 --> 00:39:12,681
Speaker 6: my mother. Like who's to say? So, I think that

747
00:39:12,761 --> 00:39:16,441
Speaker 6: we all have a responsibility as good community members to

748
00:39:16,561 --> 00:39:19,921
Speaker 6: actually surround people that have had this happen in their

749
00:39:19,961 --> 00:39:23,241
Speaker 6: lives and attempt to use our skills in such a

750
00:39:23,281 --> 00:39:27,761
Speaker 6: way to be able to find resolution or to be

751
00:39:27,761 --> 00:39:30,641
Speaker 6: able to lift those people up and encourage them. So

752
00:39:31,081 --> 00:39:33,321
Speaker 6: I think at the end of the day, we all

753
00:39:33,361 --> 00:39:36,961
Speaker 6: just need to work together to make sure that people

754
00:39:37,281 --> 00:39:41,641
Speaker 6: such as mister Rick Bloom actually do have the mirror

755
00:39:41,641 --> 00:39:45,121
Speaker 6: put up to his face about what he has actually done,

756
00:39:45,521 --> 00:39:49,361
Speaker 6: because from the nineteen seventies to now he has not

757
00:39:49,521 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 6: had that mirror. And I think that it's actually very

758
00:39:53,001 --> 00:39:56,001
Speaker 6: good that that mirror has been put up and that

759
00:39:56,081 --> 00:39:59,121
Speaker 6: people have been able to have their say about what

760
00:39:59,281 --> 00:40:02,481
Speaker 6: he has done in their lives too, and also the

761
00:40:02,521 --> 00:40:06,121
Speaker 6: primary goal is to find out what has happened to Marion.

762
00:40:06,641 --> 00:40:10,081
Speaker 6: As Sel says, every day of the week, my mother

763
00:40:10,601 --> 00:40:11,441
Speaker 6: is still missing.

764
00:40:12,001 --> 00:40:16,281
Speaker 4: She's still missing, well said Jonie, well spoken Sally as well,

765
00:40:16,441 --> 00:40:18,161
Speaker 4: And to the High Tea.

766
00:40:18,201 --> 00:40:19,881
Speaker 3: I would love to come to the High Ta.

767
00:40:19,961 --> 00:40:22,281
Speaker 4: I do have a very big birthday in September, though,

768
00:40:22,321 --> 00:40:24,201
Speaker 4: which I'd be taking a couple of weeks off to

769
00:40:24,281 --> 00:40:27,841
Speaker 4: celebrate that with family, as I haven't had arrest points

770
00:40:28,201 --> 00:40:30,201
Speaker 4: for a long time either. But I will be there

771
00:40:30,201 --> 00:40:32,841
Speaker 4: in spirit for sure. And I do love a good

772
00:40:32,921 --> 00:40:35,041
Speaker 4: high tea. They don't do them particularly well here in

773
00:40:35,161 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 4: La so if I could be there, I would be there.

774
00:40:38,081 --> 00:40:38,801
Speaker 3: To Janie, you.

775
00:40:38,761 --> 00:40:42,281
Speaker 4: Really have been such an incredible friend and resource to Sally,

776
00:40:43,401 --> 00:40:44,441
Speaker 4: you know, and I agree with you.

777
00:40:44,481 --> 00:40:46,081
Speaker 3: We can all help others.

778
00:40:46,161 --> 00:40:50,041
Speaker 4: And my squad are so heavily invested, not just in

779
00:40:50,121 --> 00:40:53,241
Speaker 4: Marion's case, but many of them are heavily invested in

780
00:40:53,561 --> 00:40:56,001
Speaker 4: Marion's case, but in many others. And there's lots of

781
00:40:56,001 --> 00:40:59,681
Speaker 4: good people who do want to create change. And also

782
00:40:59,721 --> 00:41:03,641
Speaker 4: the accountability piece, you know, we should not be allowing

783
00:41:03,841 --> 00:41:08,121
Speaker 4: men like Rick Bloom to lie and to cheat and

784
00:41:08,201 --> 00:41:12,001
Speaker 4: to defraud people, and to lie to immigration. You know,

785
00:41:12,081 --> 00:41:15,481
Speaker 4: these everything that he has done. There are many criminal

786
00:41:15,561 --> 00:41:21,241
Speaker 4: offenses within various different countries and he hasn't been held

787
00:41:21,281 --> 00:41:24,961
Speaker 4: to account. And it's so important that people do feel

788
00:41:25,041 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 4: riled up and feel enough is enough, because we've talked

789
00:41:28,001 --> 00:41:30,121
Speaker 4: about it before, but I just want to say it plainly.

790
00:41:30,241 --> 00:41:32,441
Speaker 3: These are not just financial crimes.

791
00:41:32,841 --> 00:41:33,041
Speaker 2: You know.

792
00:41:33,081 --> 00:41:34,721
Speaker 3: This isn't something that's low level.

793
00:41:34,921 --> 00:41:37,961
Speaker 4: This is really serious stuff and its power and control

794
00:41:38,081 --> 00:41:42,361
Speaker 4: driven the thrill of the chase of duping vulnerable women

795
00:41:43,081 --> 00:41:45,761
Speaker 4: and not just duping them, changing their names and trying

796
00:41:45,761 --> 00:41:48,801
Speaker 4: to disappear them and separate them from their families, which

797
00:41:48,841 --> 00:41:52,161
Speaker 4: is who they should be with in the next chapter

798
00:41:52,281 --> 00:41:55,241
Speaker 4: of their life. But he was trying to take them

799
00:41:55,281 --> 00:41:57,921
Speaker 4: away and change their name and totally disappear them and

800
00:41:57,961 --> 00:42:01,801
Speaker 4: confuse them and take money from them. And I don't

801
00:42:01,801 --> 00:42:04,441
Speaker 4: think that money was the primary motive. This wasn't about

802
00:42:04,521 --> 00:42:09,281
Speaker 4: him may millions. This is about him duping and power

803
00:42:09,281 --> 00:42:11,841
Speaker 4: and control, having one over on people and moving from

804
00:42:11,841 --> 00:42:13,721
Speaker 4: one woman to the next to the next. And to

805
00:42:13,761 --> 00:42:16,761
Speaker 4: your point, Joni, this could be any of our mums.

806
00:42:17,361 --> 00:42:19,721
Speaker 4: And isn't it time that all people who had any

807
00:42:19,761 --> 00:42:22,921
Speaker 4: involvement with him, stood up and said this is not

808
00:42:23,041 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 4: acceptable because it does make a mockery of the law.

809
00:42:26,881 --> 00:42:28,081
Speaker 3: And you know, I feel that.

810
00:42:28,121 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 4: Goodness knows how it was for both of you being

811
00:42:30,521 --> 00:42:33,841
Speaker 4: at the coroners and hearing the utter lies coming from

812
00:42:33,921 --> 00:42:37,841
Speaker 4: his mouth and no sanction as a consequence. It just

813
00:42:37,881 --> 00:42:40,641
Speaker 4: made me feel what are we actually doing here because

814
00:42:40,641 --> 00:42:43,801
Speaker 4: we are talking about major crime, We're not just talking

815
00:42:43,801 --> 00:42:46,121
Speaker 4: about light touch stuff. And you've heard me say it

816
00:42:46,201 --> 00:42:49,041
Speaker 4: many times before, but justice does not have an age.

817
00:42:49,441 --> 00:42:53,161
Speaker 4: And anyone saying, I know you've had this said to you, Sally, Oh,

818
00:42:53,201 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 4: because of his age, he probably won't be prosecuted. While

819
00:42:57,521 --> 00:43:00,521
Speaker 4: that is not okay because it should never come down

820
00:43:00,561 --> 00:43:04,161
Speaker 4: to age. It should come down to justice of what's right.

821
00:43:04,721 --> 00:43:06,721
Speaker 4: And yeah, yes, there isn't a body. I mean being

822
00:43:06,801 --> 00:43:09,201
Speaker 4: clinical here, We don't have a body for Marion, but

823
00:43:09,241 --> 00:43:12,881
Speaker 4: we do have a timeline and I strongly believe from

824
00:43:12,921 --> 00:43:14,561
Speaker 4: what we said at the coroners, he was the last

825
00:43:14,561 --> 00:43:16,241
Speaker 4: person to be with Marion.

826
00:43:16,361 --> 00:43:18,361
Speaker 3: And when you piece these thousand.

827
00:43:19,721 --> 00:43:23,921
Speaker 4: Elements together, you see actually a very persuasive picture. And

828
00:43:23,961 --> 00:43:25,801
Speaker 4: then that comes down to a jury to make a

829
00:43:25,841 --> 00:43:29,001
Speaker 4: decision on. But the totality of the circumstances. I went

830
00:43:29,041 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 4: back and listened to my forty one points. I mean,

831
00:43:33,641 --> 00:43:35,921
Speaker 4: even me listening to it back, I mean, how much

832
00:43:35,961 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 4: more compelling. Yes, we don't have DNA and we don't

833
00:43:38,481 --> 00:43:41,841
Speaker 4: have forensics, but building the house, it's very clear that

834
00:43:41,881 --> 00:43:43,841
Speaker 4: he was on her timeline and he did this to

835
00:43:43,921 --> 00:43:47,281
Speaker 4: many women, and that Marian was different. So I really

836
00:43:47,321 --> 00:43:50,041
Speaker 4: hope that people get their fingers out there ass quite frankly,

837
00:43:50,201 --> 00:43:53,321
Speaker 4: because it is serious and the clock is ticking. And

838
00:43:53,401 --> 00:43:55,881
Speaker 4: just to give another context, in the UK, there was

839
00:43:55,921 --> 00:43:59,641
Speaker 4: a cold case from nineteen forty seven. I believe it

840
00:43:59,841 --> 00:44:03,441
Speaker 4: was of a lady called Louis A Dunn who was

841
00:44:03,761 --> 00:44:07,401
Speaker 4: raped and murdered in sorry nineteen sixty seven.

842
00:44:07,441 --> 00:44:08,601
Speaker 3: We had a case in the UK.

843
00:44:08,841 --> 00:44:11,201
Speaker 4: She was raped and murdered in her home in nineteen

844
00:44:11,281 --> 00:44:14,801
Speaker 4: sixty seven, and it's only just been solved. And the

845
00:44:14,881 --> 00:44:18,521
Speaker 4: man who was arrested and prosecuted and convicted is ninety

846
00:44:18,561 --> 00:44:21,681
Speaker 4: two years of age, and that the police still knocked

847
00:44:21,721 --> 00:44:24,961
Speaker 4: on his door and arrested him and went through the

848
00:44:25,001 --> 00:44:28,881
Speaker 4: criminal justice process. And yes, there were forensics in that,

849
00:44:29,041 --> 00:44:32,041
Speaker 4: and that should have been found a long time ago

850
00:44:32,521 --> 00:44:35,161
Speaker 4: because he was a serial rapist, and there's a whole,

851
00:44:35,921 --> 00:44:40,801
Speaker 4: you know, set of circumstances around that which are infuriating.

852
00:44:41,481 --> 00:44:45,001
Speaker 4: But what are we doing here letting these individuals just

853
00:44:45,201 --> 00:44:48,281
Speaker 4: carry out whatever they want to do inflict such horrible

854
00:44:48,321 --> 00:44:51,961
Speaker 4: pain and suffering on not just the women but their

855
00:44:52,001 --> 00:44:55,401
Speaker 4: families like you, Sally, and as you mentioned Marian's friends.

856
00:44:55,841 --> 00:44:58,841
Speaker 4: You know everybody who misses Marian. What happened with your brother,

857
00:44:58,961 --> 00:45:02,801
Speaker 4: so you know him being in his eighties. We saw

858
00:45:03,161 --> 00:45:07,481
Speaker 4: with Chris Dawson him be prosecuted. So there are things

859
00:45:07,481 --> 00:45:09,161
Speaker 4: that are and I do believe this is in the

860
00:45:09,161 --> 00:45:12,521
Speaker 4: public interest because it's about what message you're sending. If

861
00:45:12,561 --> 00:45:15,281
Speaker 4: you do nothing, if you sit on your hands, all

862
00:45:15,321 --> 00:45:18,961
Speaker 4: the Blooms of the world rub their hands with glee

863
00:45:19,521 --> 00:45:21,601
Speaker 4: and just think, oh, we can do whatever we want.

864
00:45:22,441 --> 00:45:24,201
Speaker 3: And that is absolutely not okay.

865
00:45:24,561 --> 00:45:27,801
Speaker 4: And he needs to feel the full full weight of

866
00:45:27,841 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 4: the law because even at the coroners, I just don't

867
00:45:31,001 --> 00:45:33,441
Speaker 4: think he took it seriously. And yes he got a

868
00:45:33,441 --> 00:45:36,081
Speaker 4: good lawyer and so on, but he needs to feel

869
00:45:36,121 --> 00:45:39,641
Speaker 4: the pressure and I hope he does. Of lots of

870
00:45:39,721 --> 00:45:43,401
Speaker 4: people who are deciding that this is not okay, and

871
00:45:43,441 --> 00:45:47,401
Speaker 4: those pieces of information or you know, it bearing fruit.

872
00:45:47,561 --> 00:45:51,121
Speaker 4: Sometimes things take a little bit longer to percolate. So

873
00:45:51,961 --> 00:45:54,201
Speaker 4: I really hope that there is going to be a

874
00:45:54,281 --> 00:45:58,361
Speaker 4: development that is significant and for the police to actually

875
00:45:58,361 --> 00:46:02,521
Speaker 4: do their damn jobs, because yes, they've got a big

876
00:46:02,561 --> 00:46:05,041
Speaker 4: case file and everything else, but this has a big

877
00:46:05,121 --> 00:46:07,761
Speaker 4: public profile too, and like I said, it's about the

878
00:46:07,801 --> 00:46:12,121
Speaker 4: message that we send out to people of who matters.

879
00:46:12,921 --> 00:46:16,841
Speaker 4: And you're teaching criminals how to be better criminals and

880
00:46:16,841 --> 00:46:19,561
Speaker 4: what you will take on as serious and what you won't,

881
00:46:20,081 --> 00:46:22,401
Speaker 4: and then you end up in lawlessness if you don't.

882
00:46:23,121 --> 00:46:26,681
Speaker 4: So you know, I say that, you know, fire just

883
00:46:26,761 --> 00:46:29,041
Speaker 4: coming out of me because I do just feel you've

884
00:46:29,041 --> 00:46:32,441
Speaker 4: gone through so much and it's been so tough and grueling,

885
00:46:32,641 --> 00:46:36,361
Speaker 4: and you are You're so diplomatic, you're not angry and

886
00:46:36,641 --> 00:46:39,201
Speaker 4: bitter and pissed off about it all. Where I feel

887
00:46:39,201 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 4: like I carry some of that for you, because if

888
00:46:41,481 --> 00:46:45,041
Speaker 4: the basics were done well at the start, you wouldn't

889
00:46:45,041 --> 00:46:45,921
Speaker 4: be in this position.

890
00:46:46,441 --> 00:46:48,001
Speaker 3: And that's on the police.

891
00:46:48,521 --> 00:46:51,081
Speaker 4: So I feel that they are duty bound to actually

892
00:46:51,121 --> 00:46:54,561
Speaker 4: do something because they got it so wrong at the start,

893
00:46:55,361 --> 00:46:58,761
Speaker 4: And you know, normally I'm diplomatic, but I just feel

894
00:46:58,801 --> 00:47:00,801
Speaker 4: that there have been so many cases where they've got

895
00:47:00,841 --> 00:47:04,681
Speaker 4: it wrong. Where is the accountability piece for them, where

896
00:47:04,721 --> 00:47:06,881
Speaker 4: there are good people in the police, where they think.

897
00:47:07,161 --> 00:47:09,121
Speaker 4: I'm going to make sure that we get this right,

898
00:47:09,201 --> 00:47:12,081
Speaker 4: and I'm going to make sure that we follow up

899
00:47:12,121 --> 00:47:15,081
Speaker 4: on all the leads that you both have been sending them.

900
00:47:15,201 --> 00:47:17,601
Speaker 4: And you know, I'm working with many families at the moment,

901
00:47:17,641 --> 00:47:21,401
Speaker 4: and I know that's part of the frustrating aspect of it.

902
00:47:21,441 --> 00:47:24,081
Speaker 4: You never get any feedback. But even if you were

903
00:47:24,121 --> 00:47:27,641
Speaker 4: just being reassured we've got this, we're looking at this,

904
00:47:28,241 --> 00:47:30,721
Speaker 4: we can't tell you any more than that, then of

905
00:47:30,761 --> 00:47:32,961
Speaker 4: course it would reassure you a little bit, rather than

906
00:47:32,961 --> 00:47:35,041
Speaker 4: it just going into the ether and you just don't

907
00:47:35,041 --> 00:47:37,921
Speaker 4: know are they doing anything or not. And sometimes it's

908
00:47:37,961 --> 00:47:43,081
Speaker 4: just that communication, isn't it again, that it is being progressed.

909
00:47:43,121 --> 00:47:45,601
Speaker 4: They can't tell you anymore rather than just leaving you.

910
00:47:45,681 --> 00:47:50,641
Speaker 4: As I keep hearing from families waiting waiting, waiting, waiting,

911
00:47:50,681 --> 00:47:52,681
Speaker 4: but you don't really know what you're waiting for.

912
00:47:53,361 --> 00:47:56,201
Speaker 3: And that's the hard part in amongst all the.

913
00:47:56,161 --> 00:47:58,361
Speaker 2: Other hard And I said that to a journey the

914
00:47:58,481 --> 00:48:01,241
Speaker 2: other day as well. I said, you know, even just

915
00:48:01,241 --> 00:48:03,521
Speaker 2: just a call or an email to say we've got it,

916
00:48:03,641 --> 00:48:04,601
Speaker 2: we're looking into it.

917
00:48:04,681 --> 00:48:06,241
Speaker 1: I can't tell you what we're doing.

918
00:48:06,041 --> 00:48:08,281
Speaker 2: But there is progress or there's no progress, or it's

919
00:48:08,321 --> 00:48:11,761
Speaker 2: moving it's not moving because there's an ambiguity that sits

920
00:48:11,801 --> 00:48:15,841
Speaker 2: behind that as well. Right, we're just not knowing what

921
00:48:16,081 --> 00:48:19,641
Speaker 2: the hell's going on, and if we knew that, there

922
00:48:19,721 --> 00:48:22,801
Speaker 2: might be a little bit of comfort to know that

923
00:48:22,881 --> 00:48:26,601
Speaker 2: things are happening, rather than just always second guessing as

924
00:48:26,601 --> 00:48:28,561
Speaker 2: to what's what is actually going on.

925
00:48:28,761 --> 00:48:32,681
Speaker 4: So yeah, well it doesn't And I having been in

926
00:48:32,721 --> 00:48:35,081
Speaker 4: the police, I think so much of it is just

927
00:48:35,161 --> 00:48:40,361
Speaker 4: communication of just the softer side of communication. Families don't

928
00:48:40,401 --> 00:48:44,841
Speaker 4: expect the whole investigation. They just expect some common courtesy

929
00:48:45,121 --> 00:48:48,921
Speaker 4: of we are progressing this or actually at this time

930
00:48:49,041 --> 00:48:52,201
Speaker 4: we're not, but we are looking to do something, you know,

931
00:48:52,361 --> 00:48:54,721
Speaker 4: next time, just so that you know, because you are

932
00:48:54,841 --> 00:48:59,521
Speaker 4: really the field investigators going out there and you know,

933
00:48:59,721 --> 00:49:03,801
Speaker 4: doing your I call it an excavation of bringing back

934
00:49:04,481 --> 00:49:07,041
Speaker 4: lots of information. You want to be reassured that things

935
00:49:07,081 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 4: will be acted upon, so you know. I just think

936
00:49:11,041 --> 00:49:14,081
Speaker 4: it is such a bizarre state of affairs in twenty

937
00:49:14,121 --> 00:49:17,081
Speaker 4: twenty five, when we've got so much more technology and

938
00:49:17,201 --> 00:49:20,401
Speaker 4: forensics and so many things like smartphones, things that can

939
00:49:20,481 --> 00:49:25,081
Speaker 4: help us. That we're in this situation where the police

940
00:49:25,281 --> 00:49:28,481
Speaker 4: seem to be going backwards and not forwards, and that

941
00:49:28,601 --> 00:49:31,561
Speaker 4: doesn't seem right that that's what's happening when we've got

942
00:49:31,561 --> 00:49:35,201
Speaker 4: so many tools and artificial intelligence and so on. And

943
00:49:35,241 --> 00:49:36,721
Speaker 4: I know, you know, some of it comes down to

944
00:49:36,761 --> 00:49:39,441
Speaker 4: funding cuts and so forth, but not all of it

945
00:49:39,481 --> 00:49:42,321
Speaker 4: is about funding. Majority of it, in my view, is

946
00:49:42,321 --> 00:49:46,961
Speaker 4: about communication and figuring out, you know, what your priorities are,

947
00:49:47,041 --> 00:49:51,761
Speaker 4: what are the most actionable pieces of information coming in.

948
00:49:51,801 --> 00:49:54,521
Speaker 3: But they didn't even do that with your mother's case.

949
00:49:54,641 --> 00:49:57,481
Speaker 4: You've done all the legwork, all the grunt work effectively,

950
00:49:57,601 --> 00:50:00,521
Speaker 4: and you've been taking it back to them. So you know,

951
00:50:00,601 --> 00:50:03,361
Speaker 4: I really hope this piece of information, or maybe it's

952
00:50:03,401 --> 00:50:06,761
Speaker 4: going to be multiple pieces of information, that it bears

953
00:50:06,801 --> 00:50:10,041
Speaker 4: some fruits and that the police do pick that back up.

954
00:50:10,081 --> 00:50:12,961
Speaker 4: And there's not this well, he's in his eighties, so

955
00:50:13,001 --> 00:50:15,561
Speaker 4: there's no point doing anything because that's not the way

956
00:50:15,761 --> 00:50:19,161
Speaker 4: justice works, and that should never be the way justice works.

957
00:50:19,601 --> 00:50:21,521
Speaker 2: Anyway, I'm going to say thank you to both of

958
00:50:21,561 --> 00:50:25,161
Speaker 2: you for jumping on today and having a chat with us, Laura.

959
00:50:25,241 --> 00:50:29,241
Speaker 2: As always, I'm so happy that we finally made time

960
00:50:29,281 --> 00:50:31,801
Speaker 2: to in our busy schedules, because I know the three

961
00:50:31,841 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 2: of us are super super busy humans and I'm glad

962
00:50:35,481 --> 00:50:38,641
Speaker 2: we've been able to make that happen. So thank you

963
00:50:38,721 --> 00:50:41,081
Speaker 2: so much again, And I'm sure this is not the

964
00:50:41,161 --> 00:50:44,601
Speaker 2: last time we're going to.

965
00:50:43,401 --> 00:50:45,521
Speaker 1: Meet you and catch up with you.

966
00:50:45,761 --> 00:50:48,121
Speaker 2: And maybe maybe Journey and I will come over and

967
00:50:48,521 --> 00:50:51,041
Speaker 2: come and have high tea with you in La and

968
00:50:51,081 --> 00:50:52,001
Speaker 2: we can do a catch up.

969
00:50:52,361 --> 00:50:55,681
Speaker 4: That would be wonderful. Yeah, I'd love to meet Jonie

970
00:50:55,721 --> 00:50:59,281
Speaker 4: in person as well. And you know Australia, I always

971
00:50:59,321 --> 00:51:01,841
Speaker 4: did bits and pieces of work in Australia and then

972
00:51:01,881 --> 00:51:04,881
Speaker 4: the pandemic happened. But there may be they're a bit

973
00:51:04,881 --> 00:51:07,201
Speaker 4: more an occasion. I have been speaking to a number

974
00:51:07,241 --> 00:51:10,361
Speaker 4: of police forces about pieces of work on cases, so

975
00:51:10,601 --> 00:51:13,761
Speaker 4: we'll see. But you're always very welcome to come in

976
00:51:13,801 --> 00:51:15,601
Speaker 4: the Crime Analyst squad. Do you have a lot of

977
00:51:15,601 --> 00:51:18,721
Speaker 4: fans there, And there's so much more that I wanted

978
00:51:18,721 --> 00:51:21,001
Speaker 4: to dig into, but I want to be respectful of

979
00:51:21,041 --> 00:51:23,561
Speaker 4: time as well, so we probably will if it's okay

980
00:51:23,601 --> 00:51:25,721
Speaker 4: with you do a follow up and I want to

981
00:51:26,241 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 4: just ask you a number of other questions about your

982
00:51:28,561 --> 00:51:30,921
Speaker 4: incredible investigation.

983
00:51:31,761 --> 00:51:33,161
Speaker 3: In Europe and your travels.

984
00:51:33,201 --> 00:51:35,041
Speaker 1: If that's okay, Yeah, that's fine.

985
00:51:35,361 --> 00:51:38,921
Speaker 2: And for those of you who are listening to Laura's

986
00:51:39,201 --> 00:51:42,601
Speaker 2: Crime Analyst podcast and haven't listened to The Lady Venishes

987
00:51:42,921 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 2: or The Missing Matter, the Missing Meatow, we've actually done

988
00:51:46,521 --> 00:51:49,401
Speaker 2: some videos as well, so you can actually see the

989
00:51:49,401 --> 00:51:53,081
Speaker 2: footage on my mum's Instagram page which is Missing Person

990
00:51:53,121 --> 00:51:55,321
Speaker 2: Marian Barter. There's a little bit on my page tro

991
00:51:55,481 --> 00:51:58,281
Speaker 2: which is to Sally Layden, which just gives you a

992
00:51:58,321 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 2: bit of a snippet as to us physically being there

993
00:52:01,521 --> 00:52:04,561
Speaker 2: and some of the challenges that we faced, and we've

994
00:52:04,561 --> 00:52:07,681
Speaker 2: pretty much there's a portion of that podcast that we

995
00:52:08,121 --> 00:52:12,761
Speaker 2: jump through, so every single episode is dedicated to a

996
00:52:12,761 --> 00:52:15,321
Speaker 2: particular place that we went and what we what we found,

997
00:52:15,401 --> 00:52:19,561
Speaker 2: and what we are what challenges we we came to

998
00:52:19,921 --> 00:52:24,121
Speaker 2: head against against as well. So yeah, jump on there

999
00:52:24,121 --> 00:52:27,161
Speaker 2: and have a listen and we will definitely be back

1000
00:52:27,201 --> 00:52:29,401
Speaker 2: with Crime Analyst and and your squad.

1001
00:52:29,441 --> 00:52:30,881
Speaker 1: To Laura, very happy to do that.

1002
00:52:31,281 --> 00:52:34,121
Speaker 4: When I was in London picking up an award and

1003
00:52:34,161 --> 00:52:36,641
Speaker 4: then going to the Crime Analyst. Sorry, then going to

1004
00:52:36,641 --> 00:52:42,281
Speaker 4: the Crime Con, you know, massive event that happens every year.

1005
00:52:42,401 --> 00:52:45,921
Speaker 4: I was absolutely fascinated that a number of women came

1006
00:52:46,001 --> 00:52:48,841
Speaker 4: bounding over to me and said, I'm seeing Sally and

1007
00:52:48,921 --> 00:52:50,721
Speaker 4: we're going to meet We're going to meet Sally and

1008
00:52:50,801 --> 00:52:53,641
Speaker 4: meet Jonie and take them some T shirts and d D.

1009
00:52:54,641 --> 00:52:57,201
Speaker 4: And I was like, Wow, everyone knows Sally and Joni,

1010
00:52:57,281 --> 00:52:59,641
Speaker 4: everyone knows you know about Marion. It was it was

1011
00:52:59,761 --> 00:53:03,601
Speaker 4: a very cool experience to hear and you know, like

1012
00:53:03,641 --> 00:53:06,241
Speaker 4: I said, so many people are support you and routing

1013
00:53:06,281 --> 00:53:09,361
Speaker 4: you on, you know, cheering you on, I should say,

1014
00:53:09,481 --> 00:53:12,321
Speaker 4: and your mum And it's just for me so heartening

1015
00:53:12,361 --> 00:53:14,041
Speaker 4: to see that people care so much.

1016
00:53:15,881 --> 00:53:17,121
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was.

1017
00:53:17,121 --> 00:53:19,041
Speaker 2: That was an awesome moment actually, because we met up

1018
00:53:19,081 --> 00:53:23,481
Speaker 2: with the wonderful Wendy C who had met you at

1019
00:53:23,521 --> 00:53:24,801
Speaker 2: crime Con, and she said, I've.

1020
00:53:24,681 --> 00:53:26,601
Speaker 1: Got T shirts and all this stuff for you.

1021
00:53:26,681 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 2: And so I'm literally standing out the front of Jane

1022
00:53:29,521 --> 00:53:32,601
Speaker 2: Austen's house and that for me was quite a moment

1023
00:53:32,681 --> 00:53:35,401
Speaker 2: because I've got a postcard from that my mum sent

1024
00:53:35,481 --> 00:53:38,201
Speaker 2: to somebody else that has Jane Austen's house on the front.

1025
00:53:38,561 --> 00:53:41,241
Speaker 2: So here I am standing in front of this amazing

1026
00:53:41,361 --> 00:53:44,921
Speaker 2: house that holds a lot of information and background into

1027
00:53:44,961 --> 00:53:47,121
Speaker 2: my mum's journey while she was in the UK. And

1028
00:53:47,121 --> 00:53:50,441
Speaker 2: I'm standing there with my Laura Richard's T shirt for me,

1029
00:53:51,641 --> 00:53:54,641
Speaker 2: you know. So that's all part of the journey. It's

1030
00:53:55,321 --> 00:53:58,201
Speaker 2: there's a lightheartedness that comes from that, but it's meeting

1031
00:53:58,241 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 2: good people and knowing that we've got huge support. That's

1032
00:54:02,441 --> 00:54:06,201
Speaker 2: what makes a difference. And yeah, hopefully we can help many,

1033
00:54:06,201 --> 00:54:06,761
Speaker 2: many more people.

1034
00:54:06,921 --> 00:54:08,961
Speaker 4: Well, it's been a pleasure talking to you both, so

1035
00:54:09,161 --> 00:54:10,241
Speaker 4: I appreciate your time.

1036
00:54:10,281 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 3: Thank you very.

1037
00:54:10,961 --> 00:54:13,121
Speaker 5: Much, Thank you very much. Thank you to both of you.

1038
00:54:13,201 --> 00:54:13,361
Speaker 5: Two