WEBVTT - Is Donald Trump getting Kevin Rudd fired?

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<v Speaker 1>From Swartzmedia. I'm Daniel James. This is seven Am. Kevin

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<v Speaker 1>Rudd doesn't appear to like Donald Trump, and the feeling

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<v Speaker 1>is mutual. The Australian Ambassador to the US has a

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<v Speaker 1>history of criticizing Trump, making it hard to imagine how

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<v Speaker 1>the two can have a destructive working relationship. Once the

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<v Speaker 1>President of leat gets into the White House in January,

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<v Speaker 1>the speculation that Kevin Rudd may not survive in the

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<v Speaker 1>role for long. Today's special correspondent for the Saturday Paper,

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<v Speaker 1>Jason Kottsukus on whether the Albanezi government can stand up

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<v Speaker 1>to the pressure from the Trump administration and the message

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<v Speaker 1>it sends if it doesn't. It's Friday, November fifteen, and

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<v Speaker 1>thanks for joining us.

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<v Speaker 2>Daniel. It's a pleasure to be with you.

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<v Speaker 1>A few months ago on this podcast, you said that

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<v Speaker 1>if Donald Trump wins the election, we may see a

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<v Speaker 1>lot more of Scott Morrison. Is that still potentially the case?

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<v Speaker 2>I think so, Daniel, because Scott Morrison is on the

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<v Speaker 2>same side of politics as Donald Trump. He knows Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 2>He's dealt with him when he was Prime Minister. He's

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<v Speaker 2>also had some meetings with the President elect since he

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<v Speaker 2>was no longer Prime Minister. He's been over there in Washington,

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<v Speaker 2>He's had a couple of meetings with Donald Trump. And

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<v Speaker 2>of course Scott Morrison is the original architect of the

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<v Speaker 2>Orcus security partnership with the US and the UK. And

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<v Speaker 2>if Donald Trump is going to need some convincing that

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<v Speaker 2>ORCAS is good for the US as well as been

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<v Speaker 2>good for Australia, then Scott Morrison's probably a really good

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<v Speaker 2>person to try to convince Donald Trump of that.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think Scott Morrison is positioning himself to become

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<v Speaker 1>ambassador at at some point?

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<v Speaker 2>I think Scott Morrison would love to be Australia's ambassador

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<v Speaker 2>to the United States, But I do think that's very unlikely,

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<v Speaker 2>mainly because of the personal enmity between Anthony Albanesi and

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<v Speaker 2>Scott Morrison. Anthony Albanezi has such little respect for Scott

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<v Speaker 2>Morrison as a parliamentarian, as a politician that I just

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<v Speaker 2>cannot see him wanting to ever appoint Scott Morrison do anything,

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<v Speaker 2>let alone Australia's most important diplomatic posting.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're talking about this because since President Trump has

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<v Speaker 1>been President Elect Trump, it's exposed the relationship between our

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<v Speaker 1>Karen Ambassador, Kevin Rudd and Trump himself. They don't have

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<v Speaker 1>the best relationship, do they.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm not sure if they've ever met, But what

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<v Speaker 2>we do know is that Kevin Rudd spent a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of time in recent years disparaging Donald Trump. Since Joe

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<v Speaker 2>Biden became president, Kevin Rudd has been out there making

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<v Speaker 2>some very highly, highly critical comments about Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 3>General consensus amongst anyone concerned with the public policy process,

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<v Speaker 3>domestic or international, thinks he's nuts.

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<v Speaker 2>He's also called Trump a village idiot in one television

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<v Speaker 2>interview that was unearthed this week.

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<v Speaker 3>In the last four years has been run by a

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<v Speaker 3>village idiot, competent international state craft, and the United States

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<v Speaker 3>increasingly incompetent and international state craft under Trump.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, one person I spoke to this week said

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<v Speaker 2>that a lot of these comments that rut has made

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<v Speaker 2>about Donald Trumper like a ticking time bomb that are

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<v Speaker 2>just sort of waiting to be discovered by the media.

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<v Speaker 2>And as soon as Donald Trump sees that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he's probably going to seize on it and start hitting back.

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<v Speaker 2>Pretty hard of think.

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<v Speaker 4>And he's now Australia's ambassador in Washington.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Well, I don't know he won't be there long

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<v Speaker 1>if that's the case. I don't know much about him.

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<v Speaker 2>I heard he was a little bit nasty. I hear

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<v Speaker 2>he's not the writer's bulb, but I don't know much

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<v Speaker 2>about him.

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<v Speaker 1>But if because Kevin Wright's being cleaning up his social media,

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<v Speaker 1>hasn't he removing a lot of old posts in which

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<v Speaker 1>he's been critical of Trump and people around Trump, hasn't he?

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<v Speaker 2>That's right? And I think people here in Cabra and

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<v Speaker 2>probably in Washington are asking why it's taken Kevin Rudd

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<v Speaker 2>so long to delete those social media posts. And does

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<v Speaker 2>it suggest that perhaps Kevin Rudd didn't think that Donald

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<v Speaker 2>Trump was going to win in the first place and so.

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<v Speaker 4>He didn't have to Is that he has decided to

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<v Speaker 4>delete the comments after President Trump has been elected doesn't

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<v Speaker 4>show a great sincerity If Kamila Harris had been elected,

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<v Speaker 4>and I'll presume the comment and still be up on online.

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<v Speaker 2>But you probably right. Act of deleting those social media

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<v Speaker 2>posts has certainly got a lot of attention. The New

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<v Speaker 2>York Times ran a story about it. A lot of

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<v Speaker 2>Australian media outlets have covered it, so it certainly would

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<v Speaker 2>not have been missed by the incoming members of the

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<v Speaker 2>next Trump administration.

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<v Speaker 1>So apart from deleting his previous social media posts, he's

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<v Speaker 1>actually been quite active and trying to repair he's standing

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<v Speaker 1>with Trump and Hise people. Can you tell us a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit about that?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think what everyone has been saying about Kevin

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<v Speaker 2>Rudd is that he's worked extremely hard since he became

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<v Speaker 2>Australia's ambassador to Washington in March last year, building strong

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<v Speaker 2>ties not just with the Biden administration and people in

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<v Speaker 2>the Biden White House, but reaching across that congressional aisle

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<v Speaker 2>to build strong ties with senior Republicans who are in

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<v Speaker 2>the Senate, in the House of Representatives, and Republicans who

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<v Speaker 2>are in Trump's orbit. The question, of course is can

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<v Speaker 2>he sustain that with Trump in the White House? And

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<v Speaker 2>I think you know, one very worrying sign for Kevin

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<v Speaker 2>Rudd is the tweet that Dan Scaveno is going to

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<v Speaker 2>be Trump's deputy chief of staff, posted Wednesday. It had

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<v Speaker 2>an image of Trump's congratulations, but above that he posted

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<v Speaker 2>a gift of an hourglass, suggesting that Rudd's time as

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<v Speaker 2>ambassador is running out. Dan Scaveno is a very aggressive

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<v Speaker 2>player of the political game. If he's posting things like

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<v Speaker 2>that about Kevin Rudd already, it suggests that Rudd's going

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<v Speaker 2>to be in for a pretty hard time and that

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<v Speaker 2>members of the Trump administration are not going to forget

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<v Speaker 2>what Rudd has said about Trump, and then they're not

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<v Speaker 2>going to let Trump forget that either.

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<v Speaker 1>How long can Anthony Albaneza keep backing Kevin right in

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<v Speaker 1>the face of mounting pressure. That's after the break, Jason.

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<v Speaker 1>The Albanezi government is publicly standing by Kevin Rudd, and

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<v Speaker 1>people in the opposition are as well. How sustainable do

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<v Speaker 1>you think that's going to be in the long term?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think in terms of members of the Albanezi government,

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<v Speaker 2>certainly the Prime Minister is standing by Kevin Rudd, and

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<v Speaker 2>members of his cabinet, certainly in public are coming out

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<v Speaker 2>very strongly in favor of keeping Rudd in Washington, and yes,

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<v Speaker 2>Peter Dutton and other members of the opposition are also

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<v Speaker 2>offering qualified support for Rudd.

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<v Speaker 5>Lookause, as many would point out, the president elect is

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<v Speaker 5>just named Secretary of State who had some pretty sharp

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<v Speaker 5>things to say about him, but who ultimately campaigned alongside him.

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<v Speaker 5>He's been elected alongside Vice President who had very sharp

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<v Speaker 5>and pointed things to say about him, but who he

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<v Speaker 5>chose to make his running mate. So I think we've

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<v Speaker 5>got to be conscious of keeping an open mind, which

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<v Speaker 5>is what we have tried to do in relation to

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<v Speaker 5>the question around Kevin.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think below the surface, Peter Dutton and his

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<v Speaker 2>team are very happy to keep this issue bubbling along,

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<v Speaker 2>and they see this as a huge chance to score

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<v Speaker 2>a big political win on the Prime Minister, to damage

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<v Speaker 2>his credibility. And you know, because if Kevin Rudd does

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<v Speaker 2>fall and he saw that's going to be hugely embarrassing

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<v Speaker 2>for Anthony Albinezi. He made this choice to send Rudd

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<v Speaker 2>to Washington, you know, and Peter Dutton would see political

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<v Speaker 2>opportunity here. So they'll be stoking this fire for as

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<v Speaker 2>long as they can. I think, I mean, up till

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<v Speaker 2>this point, Kevin Rudd would be able to brush this off.

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<v Speaker 2>Kevin Rud's a very experienced politician. He's got a very

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<v Speaker 2>thick skin, you know, up to this point, it's probably

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<v Speaker 2>water up for Duck's back. But being you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>stud diplomat that Kevin Rudd is and a stud reader

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<v Speaker 2>of international politics, he'll know when his position does become untenable.

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<v Speaker 2>I think if he sees himself that he doesn't have

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<v Speaker 2>any access to the White House, then I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>he's going to have any trouble coming to the view

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<v Speaker 2>that he would need to go.

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<v Speaker 1>What would to say about Australia's relationship with the United

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<v Speaker 1>States if Kevin Rudd was withdrawn or whether he fell

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<v Speaker 1>on his sword. What kind of message does that send

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<v Speaker 1>from the outset of a new Trump presidency.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, a lot of the senior sort of foreign policy

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<v Speaker 2>establishment here in Caner, I think it would be the

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<v Speaker 2>ultimate sort of craven act. Dennis Richardson one of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the most respected public servants Australia has. He's a former

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<v Speaker 2>ambassador to Washington himself. He is a former secretary of

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<v Speaker 2>the Departments of Defense and Foreign Affairs. He's made it

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<v Speaker 2>pretty clear in the strongest possible terms that he thinks

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<v Speaker 2>that a decision to recall Kevin Rudd would be just

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely craven, active cowardice. He thinks that the only thing

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<v Speaker 2>that Anthony Alberaneze should be doing right now is offering

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<v Speaker 2>Kevin Rudd. He's on qualified support and to stand up

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<v Speaker 2>to any pressure to recall Kevin Rudd or put pressure

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<v Speaker 2>on him to resign. You know, in Dennis Richardson's words,

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<v Speaker 2>this is really just a media sort of few or

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<v Speaker 2>that's been created by the Murdoch media empire here in Australia,

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<v Speaker 2>and that the government should just ignore it.

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<v Speaker 1>Finally, Jason, that's all well and good, but do you

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<v Speaker 1>think the Albenzi government can and will stand up to

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump if that amount of pressure starts to come

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<v Speaker 1>Albanese's way, Well, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Think if Donald Trump comes out and directly criticizes Kevin Rudd,

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<v Speaker 2>perhaps he might be watching Fox News and they start

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<v Speaker 2>running a story about Kevin Rudd's past comments about Trump,

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<v Speaker 2>and that Trump comes out and attacks Kevin Rudd, then

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<v Speaker 2>I think Kevin Rudd's position does become untenable and he

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<v Speaker 2>would have no choice but to fall on his sword.

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<v Speaker 2>Anthony Albaneze's probably not going to try to get in

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<v Speaker 2>the way of Kevin Rudd doing that, because the thing

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<v Speaker 2>that is fundamentally in Australia's national interests is that Australia's

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<v Speaker 2>ambassador to Washington has access to the US President and

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<v Speaker 2>if Donald Trump makes it clear, then that's not going

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<v Speaker 2>to happen. Then Kevin Rudd probably would have to go.

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<v Speaker 1>Jason, it's going to interesting times. Thank you for your time.

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<v Speaker 2>Daniel, it's been a pleasure talking with you.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks very much. You can read Jason Coottsukus's full report

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<v Speaker 1>in tomorrow's edition of the Saturday Paper. Also in the

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<v Speaker 1>News today, prominent to Albanesi has joined world leaders, including

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<v Speaker 1>US President Joe Biden and Chinese Premier Jijing Ping in

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<v Speaker 1>Peru for the Apex Summer. Although Donald Trump won't be there,

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<v Speaker 1>is expected his American First Doctrine will be top of

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<v Speaker 1>mind as Trump continues to announce his second term cabinet

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<v Speaker 1>of figures that support his hardline tariffs and protectionist agenda.

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<v Speaker 1>And up to fifty one percent of migrant women have

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<v Speaker 1>been harassed at work, with only three quarters too afraid

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<v Speaker 1>to report it over fears that could impact their immigration status.

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<v Speaker 1>The findings were published in a survey by Union New

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<v Speaker 1>South Wales, which found that construction, horticulture and hospitality were

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<v Speaker 1>the main industries where migrant women experienced harassment and that

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<v Speaker 1>many he did report their experiences were met with bullying, underpayment,

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<v Speaker 1>or were fired. The report calls for specific visa protections

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<v Speaker 1>for women to report harassment without fear of recrimination. Seven

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<v Speaker 1>Am is a daily show from Schwartz Media and The

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<v Speaker 1>Saturday Paper. It's made by Atticus Basto, Shane Anderson, Chris

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<v Speaker 1>Dane gate Me, Daniel James, Eric Jensen, Ruby Jones, Sarah mcvee,

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<v Speaker 1>Travis Evans and Zoltenfeio. Thanks for listening, See you next week.