Speaker 1: From Swartzmedia. I'm Daniel James. This is seven Am. Kevin
Speaker 1: Rudd doesn't appear to like Donald Trump, and the feeling
Speaker 1: is mutual. The Australian Ambassador to the US has a
Speaker 1: history of criticizing Trump, making it hard to imagine how
Speaker 1: the two can have a destructive working relationship. Once the
Speaker 1: President of leat gets into the White House in January,
Speaker 1: the speculation that Kevin Rudd may not survive in the
Speaker 1: role for long. Today's special correspondent for the Saturday Paper,
Speaker 1: Jason Kottsukus on whether the Albanezi government can stand up
Speaker 1: to the pressure from the Trump administration and the message
Speaker 1: it sends if it doesn't. It's Friday, November fifteen, and
Speaker 1: thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2: Daniel. It's a pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 1: A few months ago on this podcast, you said that
Speaker 1: if Donald Trump wins the election, we may see a
Speaker 1: lot more of Scott Morrison. Is that still potentially the case?
Speaker 2: I think so, Daniel, because Scott Morrison is on the
Speaker 2: same side of politics as Donald Trump. He knows Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: He's dealt with him when he was Prime Minister. He's
Speaker 2: also had some meetings with the President elect since he
Speaker 2: was no longer Prime Minister. He's been over there in Washington,
Speaker 2: He's had a couple of meetings with Donald Trump. And
Speaker 2: of course Scott Morrison is the original architect of the
Speaker 2: Orcus security partnership with the US and the UK. And
Speaker 2: if Donald Trump is going to need some convincing that
Speaker 2: ORCAS is good for the US as well as been
Speaker 2: good for Australia, then Scott Morrison's probably a really good
Speaker 2: person to try to convince Donald Trump of that.
Speaker 1: Do you think Scott Morrison is positioning himself to become
Speaker 1: ambassador at at some point?
Speaker 2: I think Scott Morrison would love to be Australia's ambassador
Speaker 2: to the United States, But I do think that's very unlikely,
Speaker 2: mainly because of the personal enmity between Anthony Albanesi and
Speaker 2: Scott Morrison. Anthony Albanezi has such little respect for Scott
Speaker 2: Morrison as a parliamentarian, as a politician that I just
Speaker 2: cannot see him wanting to ever appoint Scott Morrison do anything,
Speaker 2: let alone Australia's most important diplomatic posting.
Speaker 1: So we're talking about this because since President Trump has
Speaker 1: been President Elect Trump, it's exposed the relationship between our
Speaker 1: Karen Ambassador, Kevin Rudd and Trump himself. They don't have
Speaker 1: the best relationship, do they.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not sure if they've ever met, But what
Speaker 2: we do know is that Kevin Rudd spent a lot
Speaker 2: of time in recent years disparaging Donald Trump. Since Joe
Speaker 2: Biden became president, Kevin Rudd has been out there making
Speaker 2: some very highly, highly critical comments about Donald Trump.
Speaker 3: General consensus amongst anyone concerned with the public policy process,
Speaker 3: domestic or international, thinks he's nuts.
Speaker 2: He's also called Trump a village idiot in one television
Speaker 2: interview that was unearthed this week.
Speaker 3: In the last four years has been run by a
Speaker 3: village idiot, competent international state craft, and the United States
Speaker 3: increasingly incompetent and international state craft under Trump.
Speaker 2: You know, one person I spoke to this week said
Speaker 2: that a lot of these comments that rut has made
Speaker 2: about Donald Trumper like a ticking time bomb that are
Speaker 2: just sort of waiting to be discovered by the media.
Speaker 2: And as soon as Donald Trump sees that, you know,
Speaker 2: he's probably going to seize on it and start hitting back.
Speaker 2: Pretty hard of think.
Speaker 4: And he's now Australia's ambassador in Washington.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I don't know he won't be there long
Speaker 1: if that's the case. I don't know much about him.
Speaker 2: I heard he was a little bit nasty. I hear
Speaker 2: he's not the writer's bulb, but I don't know much
Speaker 2: about him.
Speaker 1: But if because Kevin Wright's being cleaning up his social media,
Speaker 1: hasn't he removing a lot of old posts in which
Speaker 1: he's been critical of Trump and people around Trump, hasn't he?
Speaker 2: That's right? And I think people here in Cabra and
Speaker 2: probably in Washington are asking why it's taken Kevin Rudd
Speaker 2: so long to delete those social media posts. And does
Speaker 2: it suggest that perhaps Kevin Rudd didn't think that Donald
Speaker 2: Trump was going to win in the first place and so.
Speaker 4: He didn't have to Is that he has decided to
Speaker 4: delete the comments after President Trump has been elected doesn't
Speaker 4: show a great sincerity If Kamila Harris had been elected,
Speaker 4: and I'll presume the comment and still be up on online.
Speaker 2: But you probably right. Act of deleting those social media
Speaker 2: posts has certainly got a lot of attention. The New
Speaker 2: York Times ran a story about it. A lot of
Speaker 2: Australian media outlets have covered it, so it certainly would
Speaker 2: not have been missed by the incoming members of the
Speaker 2: next Trump administration.
Speaker 1: So apart from deleting his previous social media posts, he's
Speaker 1: actually been quite active and trying to repair he's standing
Speaker 1: with Trump and Hise people. Can you tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about that?
Speaker 2: Well, I think what everyone has been saying about Kevin
Speaker 2: Rudd is that he's worked extremely hard since he became
Speaker 2: Australia's ambassador to Washington in March last year, building strong
Speaker 2: ties not just with the Biden administration and people in
Speaker 2: the Biden White House, but reaching across that congressional aisle
Speaker 2: to build strong ties with senior Republicans who are in
Speaker 2: the Senate, in the House of Representatives, and Republicans who
Speaker 2: are in Trump's orbit. The question, of course is can
Speaker 2: he sustain that with Trump in the White House? And
Speaker 2: I think you know, one very worrying sign for Kevin
Speaker 2: Rudd is the tweet that Dan Scaveno is going to
Speaker 2: be Trump's deputy chief of staff, posted Wednesday. It had
Speaker 2: an image of Trump's congratulations, but above that he posted
Speaker 2: a gift of an hourglass, suggesting that Rudd's time as
Speaker 2: ambassador is running out. Dan Scaveno is a very aggressive
Speaker 2: player of the political game. If he's posting things like
Speaker 2: that about Kevin Rudd already, it suggests that Rudd's going
Speaker 2: to be in for a pretty hard time and that
Speaker 2: members of the Trump administration are not going to forget
Speaker 2: what Rudd has said about Trump, and then they're not
Speaker 2: going to let Trump forget that either.
Speaker 1: How long can Anthony Albaneza keep backing Kevin right in
Speaker 1: the face of mounting pressure. That's after the break, Jason.
Speaker 1: The Albanezi government is publicly standing by Kevin Rudd, and
Speaker 1: people in the opposition are as well. How sustainable do
Speaker 1: you think that's going to be in the long term?
Speaker 2: Well, I think in terms of members of the Albanezi government,
Speaker 2: certainly the Prime Minister is standing by Kevin Rudd, and
Speaker 2: members of his cabinet, certainly in public are coming out
Speaker 2: very strongly in favor of keeping Rudd in Washington, and yes,
Speaker 2: Peter Dutton and other members of the opposition are also
Speaker 2: offering qualified support for Rudd.
Speaker 5: Lookause, as many would point out, the president elect is
Speaker 5: just named Secretary of State who had some pretty sharp
Speaker 5: things to say about him, but who ultimately campaigned alongside him.
Speaker 5: He's been elected alongside Vice President who had very sharp
Speaker 5: and pointed things to say about him, but who he
Speaker 5: chose to make his running mate. So I think we've
Speaker 5: got to be conscious of keeping an open mind, which
Speaker 5: is what we have tried to do in relation to
Speaker 5: the question around Kevin.
Speaker 2: But I think below the surface, Peter Dutton and his
Speaker 2: team are very happy to keep this issue bubbling along,
Speaker 2: and they see this as a huge chance to score
Speaker 2: a big political win on the Prime Minister, to damage
Speaker 2: his credibility. And you know, because if Kevin Rudd does
Speaker 2: fall and he saw that's going to be hugely embarrassing
Speaker 2: for Anthony Albinezi. He made this choice to send Rudd
Speaker 2: to Washington, you know, and Peter Dutton would see political
Speaker 2: opportunity here. So they'll be stoking this fire for as
Speaker 2: long as they can. I think, I mean, up till
Speaker 2: this point, Kevin Rudd would be able to brush this off.
Speaker 2: Kevin Rud's a very experienced politician. He's got a very
Speaker 2: thick skin, you know, up to this point, it's probably
Speaker 2: water up for Duck's back. But being you know, the
Speaker 2: stud diplomat that Kevin Rudd is and a stud reader
Speaker 2: of international politics, he'll know when his position does become untenable.
Speaker 2: I think if he sees himself that he doesn't have
Speaker 2: any access to the White House, then I don't think
Speaker 2: he's going to have any trouble coming to the view
Speaker 2: that he would need to go.
Speaker 1: What would to say about Australia's relationship with the United
Speaker 1: States if Kevin Rudd was withdrawn or whether he fell
Speaker 1: on his sword. What kind of message does that send
Speaker 1: from the outset of a new Trump presidency.
Speaker 2: Well, a lot of the senior sort of foreign policy
Speaker 2: establishment here in Caner, I think it would be the
Speaker 2: ultimate sort of craven act. Dennis Richardson one of you know,
Speaker 2: the most respected public servants Australia has. He's a former
Speaker 2: ambassador to Washington himself. He is a former secretary of
Speaker 2: the Departments of Defense and Foreign Affairs. He's made it
Speaker 2: pretty clear in the strongest possible terms that he thinks
Speaker 2: that a decision to recall Kevin Rudd would be just
Speaker 2: absolutely craven, active cowardice. He thinks that the only thing
Speaker 2: that Anthony Alberaneze should be doing right now is offering
Speaker 2: Kevin Rudd. He's on qualified support and to stand up
Speaker 2: to any pressure to recall Kevin Rudd or put pressure
Speaker 2: on him to resign. You know, in Dennis Richardson's words,
Speaker 2: this is really just a media sort of few or
Speaker 2: that's been created by the Murdoch media empire here in Australia,
Speaker 2: and that the government should just ignore it.
Speaker 1: Finally, Jason, that's all well and good, but do you
Speaker 1: think the Albenzi government can and will stand up to
Speaker 1: Donald Trump if that amount of pressure starts to come
Speaker 1: Albanese's way, Well, I.
Speaker 2: Think if Donald Trump comes out and directly criticizes Kevin Rudd,
Speaker 2: perhaps he might be watching Fox News and they start
Speaker 2: running a story about Kevin Rudd's past comments about Trump,
Speaker 2: and that Trump comes out and attacks Kevin Rudd, then
Speaker 2: I think Kevin Rudd's position does become untenable and he
Speaker 2: would have no choice but to fall on his sword.
Speaker 2: Anthony Albaneze's probably not going to try to get in
Speaker 2: the way of Kevin Rudd doing that, because the thing
Speaker 2: that is fundamentally in Australia's national interests is that Australia's
Speaker 2: ambassador to Washington has access to the US President and
Speaker 2: if Donald Trump makes it clear, then that's not going
Speaker 2: to happen. Then Kevin Rudd probably would have to go.
Speaker 1: Jason, it's going to interesting times. Thank you for your time.
Speaker 2: Daniel, it's been a pleasure talking with you.
Speaker 1: Thanks very much. You can read Jason Coottsukus's full report
Speaker 1: in tomorrow's edition of the Saturday Paper. Also in the
Speaker 1: News today, prominent to Albanesi has joined world leaders, including
Speaker 1: US President Joe Biden and Chinese Premier Jijing Ping in
Speaker 1: Peru for the Apex Summer. Although Donald Trump won't be there,
Speaker 1: is expected his American First Doctrine will be top of
Speaker 1: mind as Trump continues to announce his second term cabinet
Speaker 1: of figures that support his hardline tariffs and protectionist agenda.
Speaker 1: And up to fifty one percent of migrant women have
Speaker 1: been harassed at work, with only three quarters too afraid
Speaker 1: to report it over fears that could impact their immigration status.
Speaker 1: The findings were published in a survey by Union New
Speaker 1: South Wales, which found that construction, horticulture and hospitality were
Speaker 1: the main industries where migrant women experienced harassment and that
Speaker 1: many he did report their experiences were met with bullying, underpayment,
Speaker 1: or were fired. The report calls for specific visa protections
Speaker 1: for women to report harassment without fear of recrimination. Seven
Speaker 1: Am is a daily show from Schwartz Media and The
Speaker 1: Saturday Paper. It's made by Atticus Basto, Shane Anderson, Chris
Speaker 1: Dane gate Me, Daniel James, Eric Jensen, Ruby Jones, Sarah mcvee,
Speaker 1: Travis Evans and Zoltenfeio. Thanks for listening, See you next week.