WEBVTT - Gerrard Rennick on How Australia’s Economy Is Broken and How We Fix It 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.760 Joe Rennick So talk. Thanks for having me. It was 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:05.640 awesome to see here. You're the founder and leader of 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:08.479 the People First Party. That's correct, and we'll talk a 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:11.440 little bit about that in the moment today, and is 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:13.320 where I'm going to get to. We do not have 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.720 enough in this country, enough real world experience in politics, 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:18.239 that's my view, and that's where I want to talk, 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:20.200 what I want to talk about and what it's doing 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:22.799 to our country. Yeah, if we go, so let's just 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:24.320 underline yours first. 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:26.759 Yeah, thanks Mark, And can I just hone in on 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:28.360 that a little bit more. We don't have enough real 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:32.199 world experience in capital markets that people don't understand. And 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:34.440 I've actually had to unlearn everything I've learned over the 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:36.960 last thirty years just to put that out there at 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.280 the start. But So born in nineteen seventy in a 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:41.479 small town that Chinchilla, about two hundred and eighty kilometers 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:43.760 west of Brisbane. So I grew up in a farm, 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:46.360 mixed farming. Mum was a nurse, dad was a farmer, 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:50.280 Miss be Butcher, and then it was an areal surveyor 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:54.560 and navigated large parts of Australia. So then your dad 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:56.960 did Yeah, we work for a company called that at Dashtra, 0:00:57.040 --> 0:00:59.360 which is Latin to reach for the Stars. So he 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:01.760 actually was in the navy and was a navigator in 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:04.520 the Gannets, but he failed because he's deaf, and he's 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:08.040 genuinely deaf. So he ended up surveying western New South Wales, 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:11.560 parts of western New South Wales. He was a surveyor 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:15.280 on the when the west Gate Bridge was he surveyed 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.600 that and parts of the Trough. And actually on one 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.480 weekend he was out riding bulls in western New South Wales, 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:25.040 got kicked off and sent to hospital, got kicked in 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:26.280 the head and sent to hospital, and that's where I 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:26.759 met mum. 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.280 Well, yeah he was a nurse. So yeah, she's a chemsy. Girls. 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.000 You said he was a bull rider, Well he partly, yeah, 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:34.119 on weekends. That wasn't his hearing. 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:35.440 No, it doesn't matter that. 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:37.200 Yeah, but yeah, he was a driver for nine months. 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:39.840 He actually drove a cattle from Rome down to Dubbo. 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:41.760 I think I'm a bit sketchy on that, but I 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:43.720 know he was a drover, you know as well, So 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:46.640 you know, just that typical knock about sort of upbringing. 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:48.960 He's still alive. He's ninety one, he's out my brother's 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:50.280 property out in western Queensland. 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:51.200 Yeah. 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:54.040 So anyway, farming background. But long story short, went and 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.400 completed a Bachelor of Commerce at the University of Queensland. 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:00.560 Then that was in and I graduated in poor heatings recession, 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:03.320 so I couldn't get work with it. I had interviews 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:05.120 with all the big five Big six at the time, 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:07.600 didn't get a job there and actually so ended up 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:10.079 going back to Dolby, which is near my hometown at Chinchilla, 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:12.480 and working there in public practice for three years. And 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:14.160 I have to say it was at the time I 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:15.840 thought it was the worst thing that ever happened to me, 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:17.839 but looking back, it was actually one of the best 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:19.560 things that ever happened to me. Because I was with 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:22.399 a small firm. I had face to face interaction with clients. 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:27.440 We did all different sorts of business services, tax, you know, auditing, 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:29.560 all those jobs, and I was at the cold face 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:31.639 of small business, which of course, as you know, is 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:34.040 the engine room in Fustrator's economy. So the second and 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:36.560 third year I started meeting clients and the actually offered 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.160 me a partnership when I turned twenty five. I left 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:41.240 when I was twenty three. But I still think that 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:43.400 was really good experience because what that gave you is 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:46.600 the ability to drill down into detail totally. And you know, 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:49.240 I see so many I used to see it at Westfield. 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.600 You know, the auditors had come in and they couldn't 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:53.440 actually drill down into detail. 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:55.320 And there's all high level stuff. 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:57.639 Yeah, it's all high level stuff and even and it's 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:00.640 right across not just the political spectrum, but the sector 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:03.600 as well. And in the professional world today, there's too 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:06.560 many professional managers that haven't worked their way up from 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:09.320 the shop floor, and I think that's where we're really suffering. 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:09.640 JD. 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:12.000 Fance did a really good speech on it last year 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.200 where we spoke about when we outsourced manufacturing, we were 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:17.280 naive to think that we weren't going to lose the 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:20.000 skills that come with being on the shop floor. You know, 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:22.639 those little rule of thumbs that you only learn when 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:27.040 you're actually on the tools, so to speak. So yeah, 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:28.519 and that's why I said to you earlier on it 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:30.080 was one of the best things that ever happened to 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.400 me because it knocked a bit of sense into me 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.720 and it just gave me that grounding of knowing how 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:36.920 to drill down into data. 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:39.200 Yeah, and what happened after that? Where'd you go after that? 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:42.440 Well, so then I went overseas for what I thought 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:44.520 it was going to be two years, but ended up 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:47.200 staying for seven years. So I backpacked my well, I 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.040 backpacked my way through Africa for almost six months. Part 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:52.800 of that was on an ovaland truck trip. Exodus of 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.440 anyone gen X from the travels through Africa in the 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:57.920 nineties will know what I'm talking about. That was great experience. 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:02.320 Yet again, one part of the trip we actually climbed 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:05.640 Killman Jarro and then because I was really keen to 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:07.480 get into mountain climbing at that time, but we also 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:11.840 climbed Mount Karrasimbi, which was the mountain where the gorillas 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.000 and the mist were. And this was in the early nineties, 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:17.200 just after the movie came out. But interestingly enough, that night, 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.560 when we came off the mountain, as you do, so 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:23.160 this was in Rwanda, as you do when you're backpacking 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:25.920 in your early twenties, you go out drinking. So anyway, 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:28.080 we had Rwandan troops come and say to us, look, 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.119 there's a curfew on. You're not supposed to be our drinking. 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:32.440 But we'll let you drink if you buy us a 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:34.840 few beers. So we bought them a few beers and 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:36.760 had a bit of a conversation. Anyway, they gave us 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:40.520 an escort home with guns over their shoulders. We thought 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:43.120 it was all pretty jovial at the time. And that 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:44.800 was a Sunday night, and the war broke out on 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.320 the Wednesday, so we left on the Tuesday. Well yeah, 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:50.120 and the interesting thing about it at the time, and 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:52.760 obviously we're an outsiders looking in and that was a 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.680 French speaking country, not an English speaking country. But I 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:59.680 had no idea that that genocide was about to take place. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.560 You know, that's a real big lesson I got from 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:05.680 traveling is how quickly things can go from peace to wartime. 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:12.440 So yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, So got to London, 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:15.600 worked for let me just think about this now, British 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:20.880 BBC and British Rail. Interestingly enough interest and with British Rail, 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.160 this was at the time they privatizing British Rail, so 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:27.160 they offered people redundancies. So because all the people that 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:29.440 were quite the good workers and who backed themselves to 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:32.200 get another job when took the redundancy, and then they 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:35.080 realized that they lost a lot of their good workers, 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:37.960 so that the new contracting company had to come back 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:40.880 in and offer these people that took a redundancy actually 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:43.279 offered them a new contact to come back on the 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:46.080 following Monday and keep working, so that it was a 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:48.400 really interesting I mean I was just a contractor, you know, 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.880 as an Aussie xpact, just observing all this. It wasn't 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:54.440 it all, but it was yet another one of these 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:56.440 sort of chink in the armor about what I'd been 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.880 taught about the benefits of privatization in my university, to 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.880 you know, to see that we'll really, you know, this 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:07.760 privatization is everything it was cut up to be. Because 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:09.840 there's a lot of tension there between the people with 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:12.440 the contractors who used to be full time employees because 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.040 they've got a big payout verse those that didn't take 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:18.440 the payout and were still getting their wages. So that 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:22.400 was an interesting experience as well. But anyway, so I 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:26.240 worked for them, worked with BBC, so you know, I 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:28.560 did David Attenberg's time sheets and things like that. I 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:30.599 was out of the Ling studios as a management counting 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:34.840 out there. Oasis filmed Champagne soup and over the day 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:36.640 I was out there, I didn't see them, but they 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.359 were in a couple of rooms next door sort of 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:41.880 filming that. So that was all pretty cool. But then 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:44.040 I got a phone call one day saying, how would 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:47.400 you like a job traveling the world? You know, and 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:49.120 we'll pay for it. I was like, yeah, I'd love 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:52.279 to you know, that's random, Yeah, yeah, very random. Yeah, 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.000 it was very random. But anyway, yeah, I'd love to you. 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:56.919 So I've got flat a damn stand for an interview 0:06:57.600 --> 0:06:59.640 and it was probably the shortest account of interview I 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:01.240 over had the bloke to said if your account, you 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:02.560 shouldn't know what to do, and then he was more 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:04.880 interested in my travels to that date. And it turns 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:07.880 out he was from Brisbane as well. Glenn reed, if 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:10.600 you're still listening, And anyway, I got a job where 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:12.440 basically I was based out of Amsterdam for the next 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.960 three years. I was in and out of Amsteam about 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:18.440 fifteen sixteen times. But I had long story sure about 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.920 eight months in Amsterdam, eight months in Brazil, eight months 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:24.520 in Norway, eight months in the States, and six months 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:28.040 between Finland, Chili and Argentina, where I just basically was 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:32.880 well as my technical role as group financial international Controller. 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:35.160 And as my boss would say, people either do two 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:38.360 things when I hear that title, I over either fall 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.160 forward on their knees and start grovelling, or fall backwards 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.080 laughing at such a long winded name. But anyway, look, 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:46.120 it was just a general dog's body in finance world. 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:51.440 So board companies installed software, completed financial statements, things like that. 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:54.240 But it was a great experience because that's turned twenty 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:55.920 five by the time I got the job, and I 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.320 was basically paid to live in five star hotels and 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:01.800 go to work every day in different countries and on 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:03.680 the weekends. The weekends from mind, like when I was 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:05.560 in the States, you know, I was given the use 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.360 of a Mustang to drive around high cast I got 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:10.600 a Mustang, as you do. And that was in Sarah SAIDA. 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.400 We did a shared service implementation for all the back 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:15.040 offices across the States. 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:16.600 That was a good role. 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:19.000 In Brazil, I had to train up financial control and 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:22.640 we bought a company there, you know, same again in Norway. 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:26.200 Yeah, So what do you just on that? Like when 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:28.560 you work in those environments for long periods of time, 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:31.440 for such long period fairly long periods of time, Anyway, 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.760 what did you learn about places like Norway versus Brazil 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:39.240 versus US like, in terms of how countries are run 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:41.920 by the administration, by the governments. Do you see any 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:46.640 really stark differences between see what's happening here and was 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:48.440 there something you would take from there that you would 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:49.520 love to see happen here. 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.240 Well, Brazil was dealing with inflation the end of it. 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:54.880 So I didn't have really bad inflation when I was there, 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.000 but we had to pay bills before we got the invoice. 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.120 Well that was just because obviously what it was if 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:03.200 you've got really rampant inflation, and what is rampant inflation? 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:04.000 What levels? 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:08.120 Well, double digit, right, because justly double digit. Yes, so 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:10.880 if you're looking at anything over twelve percent a year, 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:14.800 you're losing one percent over thirty days. Yeah, So basically 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:18.000 they're very short upfront payment terms, like you basically had 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:20.600 to pay on the day because if you've got rampant inflation, 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:23.280 which is you know, you can define it anything fifteen percent, 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:26.160 but Brazil had come off even a higher figure. That 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:29.920 money just appreciates away. Even in just the daily the 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:34.280 day to day businesses of dealing with transactions, Inflation is 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:36.080 a problem. It's not just the cost of living issue, 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.120 it's actually trying to get paid on time. So there 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:43.760 was that issue. I found the Americans extremely optimistic, you know, 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:47.280 they were always very optimistic. Remember actually we did it. 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:49.440 We brought a company in Washington, DC before I went 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.120 down to Sarasota and I was staying in a hotel 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.520 and opposite the hotel they were building a new building 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:58.400 and they were literally building a level every day. Well, 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:01.200 and I can remember being shocked and how fast. I 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.720 member thinking, we don't build that fast here in Australia. 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:06.640 So they were very efficient. And it's not surprising. I 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:10.040 mean houses, house prices in Australia sorry, in the States 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:11.120 are much lower than I are here. 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.160 They can build a house there in three months. Yeah 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:16.079 he is like eighteen months. Yeah. Yeah. 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:19.560 Norway I mean obviously very dark, cold, you know, they 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:23.040 eat lunch at eleven thirty, lots of fish, you know, 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.040 But hard not to love the country. I mean, it 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:28.160 was just a beautiful country. I had the benefit of 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.920 sort of being there from arriving in the end of 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:33.400 the winter right through the summer period, so I saw 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:34.880 the change of seasons as well. 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:38.640 But we have in terms of administration because we talk 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:40.800 about social leaning or. 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:43.800 Well, look I didn't really because I mean I was 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:47.160 young in my twenties and wasn't necessarily focusing on the 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:50.840 political aspects of the country. It's just the people. But look, 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:52.880 the people are the same. Wherever you go, we're all 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:54.719 the same. It's one race to human race. This is 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:56.679 what we really want to push forward at first. And 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.360 you know, look, you know, judge the individual, not the identity. 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:02.720 I was just saying before to some others. You know, 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:05.320 there's just too much identity politics in this country. And 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:09.840 that's the one thing traveling really, you know, I viewed 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.240 inside me is that we're just one race to human race, 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:14.199 that we all just want a better life for our children, 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:18.040 and there's so much gratitude towards our forefathers. And then 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:19.760 of course there's the Dutch. I should add I love 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:23.319 the Dutch, that the Dutch people just fantastic. I loved 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:24.720 I loved the Netherlands. 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:28.440 I love this straightforwardness. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, very In 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.080 the early stage, you'd misinterpret it as them being route 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:32.800 a little bit. Yeah, but I worked over for a 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:37.200 long time too, and and then I loved it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:39.360 the Dutch. Did you know where you stand? Absolutely? 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:41.720 Yeah, just then just straight up like you know, like 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:43.800 you know, if you could ever to do do a deal, 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.160 I'd do some sort of backpack a deal with every 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:47.920 euzie should go and I'll spend six months living in 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.280 the Netherlands as far as I'm concerned. You know how 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.000 we've got the similar deal with the UK. I'd love 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:53.600 to do the same with the Netherlands. It's just such 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:56.120 a great country and great people as well. 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:58.240 You know, do you think all these things, all these 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:02.640 experiences you've had in terms of traveling and work, work trouble, 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:04.880 do you think they have somewhat influenced you when it 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.960 comes to people first? Oh? Absolutely, yeah, yeah. 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:12.680 I mean well it's the common denominator of that where 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:14.160 were just the one race to human race. I mean 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.520 I spent I ended up going backpacking after that role 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:19.120 for another two years, where I basically traveled globe and 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:21.000 I spent a lot of time throughout the year sitting 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:24.080 in bus stations and meeting different people, working with different people. 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:27.360 And you know, everyone hates their government, doesn't matter what 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:31.040 nationality here are. They hate their government. I hate paying taxes, 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:33.000 all of that stuff. But they have a common They 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:35.320 love their sport. Everyone loves their sport. That's why it's 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:38.839 such a great way to unify people. You know, they 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.520 love their children, you know, and it's just I mean, 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:45.120 and here's the thing. The poor of the country I 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.800 went to, the more generous the people. 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:49.600 Were, and what did you say, they're happier. 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.320 I don't know if they're happy. I certainly much more 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:57.240 hospitable to myself. Yeah, welcoming, Yeah, welcoming. 0:12:58.280 --> 0:12:58.480 You know. 0:12:58.559 --> 0:12:59.920 I remember one night and I was in Africa. I 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.400 went down to mass fingo ruins in Zimbabwe there and 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:04.560 I ended up sort of sleeping on this mattehart and 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:08.079 just thinking how friendly these people were, you know, yet 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.360 again in Iran. You know, I traveled through Iran on 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:12.040 the way home. I went from Moscow down through all 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:15.480 the Stars into Iran, Pakistan, India and in Nepal. How 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:17.920 friendly the Iranians were, because even back in the nineties, 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:21.079 you know, big bad Iran. But of course the people 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:24.040 themselves were incredibly friendly and hospitable. And yet again, so 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:27.000 you know, I was probably a little imperiless periles growing up, 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:28.760 you know, in the back of World War Two there, 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:33.080 but you know, I just hate conflicts. I talk about 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:35.360 my maiden speech. You know, strength to the plomacy is 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.160 strength to position, and sound to plomacy is what we 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:40.640 really need. And there's a lack of sound to plomacy. 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:43.520 What does that mean sound diplomacy? Well, you know, understanding 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:47.720 now the point of view, you know were you mean nation? Yeah, yeah, exactly. 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:49.880 You know, we use a lot of belligerent rhetoric now 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.320 governments and politicians, so in the same way we use 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:57.000 it belligerent rhetoric against each other on a domestic level, right, 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.280 you know, labor bashes libra, all liberal bashes labor. You know, 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.120 Punch and Judy show. We've made the trap of doing 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:05.319 that on international affairs as well, and we shouldn't be 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:07.719 doing that, right because if things get out of hand there, 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:11.160 like well, misinterpreted, misinterpreted things can go wrong. I mean 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:13.600 what we did in Iraq. Iraq was another real come 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:17.760 to Jesus moment for me, because early two thousand, not 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:19.640 the ninety one eighty nine one, because that was in 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.280 and out relatively quickly. But what we did in two 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:24.720 thousand and two to three was it where we started 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:27.160 by being Iraq, was that chemical weapons of mass destruction 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:30.680 so called, Yes, so called You know, I don't know 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:34.000 how many people got killed in that, certainly millions were displaced, injured, 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.520 you know, had their lives turned upside down for what 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:39.520 was ultimately a lie. And you know, and we've now 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:41.080 done the same with Syria. You know, we've got the 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.800 head of al Qaeda, you know, exhead of El Kayder 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:45.840 bloke out a ten million dollar bounty on his head 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.400 running Syria. You know, I went through Syria. This was 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:52.480 another beautiful country. There's people living there that don't have 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:55.640 any political inclinations. They're not out to you know. All 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:57.240 they want to do is a roof over their head, 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:59.160 food on the table, and a better life for their children. 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:01.560 And we go and then we destroy their lives because 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:06.080 of some ideology or some preconceived good guy bad guy thing. 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.680 And it's like, you know, we've got to think about 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:10.240 these decisions. So this is one of the things that 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:12.800 really concerns me a lot as we head further into 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:16.040 the twenty first century. Is this lack of sound of Planmacy, 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:19.520 I guess, and you know, there's too much belligerent rhetoric. 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:22.840 So yeah, it definitely has impacted me a lot. Well, 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:24.680 what I wanted to establish, is that you had real 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:27.280 life experience. We've established it. I think we're a lot 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:29.240 to talk to you about. Is that point of ideology? 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.480 Ideology seems to be splitting us up. Absolutely. Yeah. Division 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:38.960 seems to me to be a part of political play. Yeah, 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:43.000 is that correct? Yeah? It is, and what's making it's 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.680 part of the part of the game. That's right now. 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:49.160 It's always been there, but because social media has got 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:51.440 the news at our fingertips twenty four hours a day, 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:54.560 and you know, we all are guilty of doom scrolling 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:57.000 and on the you know, you have five minute break, 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:58.760 you're on the phone. I mean, when we grew up, 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:01.440 you would have got the news maybe either the six 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:04.600 pm at night, six PMS morning, yeah, yeah, at the 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:06.600 quarter to eight ABC bulletin in the morning. I mean 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:08.320 you didn't even used to have the Today Show, right, 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:10.280 I mean I always talk about the cartoons. I can 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.840 remember watching cartoons on school holiday is thinking that was 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:16.160 a treat. Now there's an entire channel devoted to cartoons. 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:18.040 And even now the kids don't even go and watch 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:19.920 ABC twenty four cartoon channel. 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:22.800 They just go YouTube the YouTube they find them on 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:24.400 the one. Yeah, the devices right. 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:27.840 So I think the fact that news is in our 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.480 face all the time is actually polarizing us even more. 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:34.880 And people just tend to get caught up in that ideology. 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:36.880 And that was one of my problems with the With 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.240 the Liberal Party, it was always that we had to 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.760 labor as bad. We have to bash them over the head, 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.200 even when we did things wrong, they did the right thing. 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:48.200 It was always if I didn't say the line because 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:49.800 I thought, you know, labor was doing the right thing 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:51.560 or we were doing the wrong thing. You know, I 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.880 would be told to put shut up and get bag really. 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.440 Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah. So it's one of the party line. 0:16:57.480 --> 0:16:59.160 Well you're a party on one and all in or 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:00.000 step back. 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:00.400 Yeah. 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:02.240 And don't get me wrong, I get that. You know, 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:05.960 in a party you do have to lie to a point. 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:09.000 But when we stopped up holding our own values, so 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.840 you know, Angus Taylor, I mean, I've left liberals by 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.119 this stage, voted against the tax cut. When one of 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.040 my last bills, when Jim Chalmers lowered the tax rate 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:20.080 from sixteen cents to fourteen cents for low income owners, 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.040 Angers voted against it. You know, well, Peter was the leader, 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:26.000 but Anger's shadow treasurer. And I just I mean I 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:28.200 said to my liberal ex liberal colleagues at the time, 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.000 I said, what are you doing guys? Like Liberal party 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:33.800 believes in lower taxes and you're voting against lower taxes. 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:36.240 You know, like when are you going to This is 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:40.480 your problem. But back to your question about the idealism, Yeah, 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:43.320 it's it's just the constant news feed now and there's 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:48.040 much more political and I think and that's and with 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:52.080 that having entertainment, so it's also in house what I 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:54.200 call in house entertainment, right, so you don't have to 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:56.520 leave home anymore. Back in the old days when we 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:57.760 gre up, you know, as you said, we had one 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:00.760 or two channels and the radios. So you get bored, 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.520 you'd have to go out and actually join groups of people. 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:05.800