Speaker 1: Joe Rennick So talk. Thanks for having me. It was
Speaker 1: awesome to see here. You're the founder and leader of
Speaker 1: the People First Party. That's correct, and we'll talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about that in the moment today, and is
Speaker 1: where I'm going to get to. We do not have
Speaker 1: enough in this country, enough real world experience in politics,
Speaker 1: that's my view, and that's where I want to talk,
Speaker 1: what I want to talk about and what it's doing
Speaker 1: to our country. Yeah, if we go, so let's just
Speaker 1: underline yours first.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks Mark, And can I just hone in on
Speaker 2: that a little bit more. We don't have enough real
Speaker 2: world experience in capital markets that people don't understand. And
Speaker 2: I've actually had to unlearn everything I've learned over the
Speaker 2: last thirty years just to put that out there at
Speaker 2: the start. But So born in nineteen seventy in a
Speaker 2: small town that Chinchilla, about two hundred and eighty kilometers
Speaker 2: west of Brisbane. So I grew up in a farm,
Speaker 2: mixed farming. Mum was a nurse, dad was a farmer,
Speaker 2: Miss be Butcher, and then it was an areal surveyor
Speaker 2: and navigated large parts of Australia. So then your dad
Speaker 2: did Yeah, we work for a company called that at Dashtra,
Speaker 2: which is Latin to reach for the Stars. So he
Speaker 2: actually was in the navy and was a navigator in
Speaker 2: the Gannets, but he failed because he's deaf, and he's
Speaker 2: genuinely deaf. So he ended up surveying western New South Wales,
Speaker 2: parts of western New South Wales. He was a surveyor
Speaker 2: on the when the west Gate Bridge was he surveyed
Speaker 2: that and parts of the Trough. And actually on one
Speaker 2: weekend he was out riding bulls in western New South Wales,
Speaker 2: got kicked off and sent to hospital, got kicked in
Speaker 2: the head and sent to hospital, and that's where I
Speaker 2: met mum.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah he was a nurse. So yeah, she's a chemsy. Girls.
Speaker 2: You said he was a bull rider, Well he partly, yeah,
Speaker 2: on weekends. That wasn't his hearing.
Speaker 1: No, it doesn't matter that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, he was a driver for nine months.
Speaker 2: He actually drove a cattle from Rome down to Dubbo.
Speaker 2: I think I'm a bit sketchy on that, but I
Speaker 2: know he was a drover, you know as well, So
Speaker 2: you know, just that typical knock about sort of upbringing.
Speaker 2: He's still alive. He's ninety one, he's out my brother's
Speaker 2: property out in western Queensland.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So anyway, farming background. But long story short, went and
Speaker 2: completed a Bachelor of Commerce at the University of Queensland.
Speaker 2: Then that was in and I graduated in poor heatings recession,
Speaker 2: so I couldn't get work with it. I had interviews
Speaker 2: with all the big five Big six at the time,
Speaker 2: didn't get a job there and actually so ended up
Speaker 2: going back to Dolby, which is near my hometown at Chinchilla,
Speaker 2: and working there in public practice for three years. And
Speaker 2: I have to say it was at the time I
Speaker 2: thought it was the worst thing that ever happened to me,
Speaker 2: but looking back, it was actually one of the best
Speaker 2: things that ever happened to me. Because I was with
Speaker 2: a small firm. I had face to face interaction with clients.
Speaker 2: We did all different sorts of business services, tax, you know, auditing,
Speaker 2: all those jobs, and I was at the cold face
Speaker 2: of small business, which of course, as you know, is
Speaker 2: the engine room in Fustrator's economy. So the second and
Speaker 2: third year I started meeting clients and the actually offered
Speaker 2: me a partnership when I turned twenty five. I left
Speaker 2: when I was twenty three. But I still think that
Speaker 2: was really good experience because what that gave you is
Speaker 2: the ability to drill down into detail totally. And you know,
Speaker 2: I see so many I used to see it at Westfield.
Speaker 2: You know, the auditors had come in and they couldn't
Speaker 2: actually drill down into detail.
Speaker 1: And there's all high level stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all high level stuff and even and it's
Speaker 2: right across not just the political spectrum, but the sector
Speaker 2: as well. And in the professional world today, there's too
Speaker 2: many professional managers that haven't worked their way up from
Speaker 2: the shop floor, and I think that's where we're really suffering.
Speaker 1: JD.
Speaker 2: Fance did a really good speech on it last year
Speaker 2: where we spoke about when we outsourced manufacturing, we were
Speaker 2: naive to think that we weren't going to lose the
Speaker 2: skills that come with being on the shop floor. You know,
Speaker 2: those little rule of thumbs that you only learn when
Speaker 2: you're actually on the tools, so to speak. So yeah,
Speaker 2: and that's why I said to you earlier on it
Speaker 2: was one of the best things that ever happened to
Speaker 2: me because it knocked a bit of sense into me
Speaker 2: and it just gave me that grounding of knowing how
Speaker 2: to drill down into data.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what happened after that? Where'd you go after that?
Speaker 2: Well, so then I went overseas for what I thought
Speaker 2: it was going to be two years, but ended up
Speaker 2: staying for seven years. So I backpacked my well, I
Speaker 2: backpacked my way through Africa for almost six months. Part
Speaker 2: of that was on an ovaland truck trip. Exodus of
Speaker 2: anyone gen X from the travels through Africa in the
Speaker 2: nineties will know what I'm talking about. That was great experience.
Speaker 2: Yet again, one part of the trip we actually climbed
Speaker 2: Killman Jarro and then because I was really keen to
Speaker 2: get into mountain climbing at that time, but we also
Speaker 2: climbed Mount Karrasimbi, which was the mountain where the gorillas
Speaker 2: and the mist were. And this was in the early nineties,
Speaker 2: just after the movie came out. But interestingly enough, that night,
Speaker 2: when we came off the mountain, as you do, so
Speaker 2: this was in Rwanda, as you do when you're backpacking
Speaker 2: in your early twenties, you go out drinking. So anyway,
Speaker 2: we had Rwandan troops come and say to us, look,
Speaker 2: there's a curfew on. You're not supposed to be our drinking.
Speaker 2: But we'll let you drink if you buy us a
Speaker 2: few beers. So we bought them a few beers and
Speaker 2: had a bit of a conversation. Anyway, they gave us
Speaker 2: an escort home with guns over their shoulders. We thought
Speaker 2: it was all pretty jovial at the time. And that
Speaker 2: was a Sunday night, and the war broke out on
Speaker 2: the Wednesday, so we left on the Tuesday. Well yeah,
Speaker 2: and the interesting thing about it at the time, and
Speaker 2: obviously we're an outsiders looking in and that was a
Speaker 2: French speaking country, not an English speaking country. But I
Speaker 2: had no idea that that genocide was about to take place.
Speaker 2: You know, that's a real big lesson I got from
Speaker 2: traveling is how quickly things can go from peace to wartime.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, So got to London,
Speaker 2: worked for let me just think about this now, British
Speaker 2: BBC and British Rail. Interestingly enough interest and with British Rail,
Speaker 2: this was at the time they privatizing British Rail, so
Speaker 2: they offered people redundancies. So because all the people that
Speaker 2: were quite the good workers and who backed themselves to
Speaker 2: get another job when took the redundancy, and then they
Speaker 2: realized that they lost a lot of their good workers,
Speaker 2: so that the new contracting company had to come back
Speaker 2: in and offer these people that took a redundancy actually
Speaker 2: offered them a new contact to come back on the
Speaker 2: following Monday and keep working, so that it was a
Speaker 2: really interesting I mean I was just a contractor, you know,
Speaker 2: as an Aussie xpact, just observing all this. It wasn't
Speaker 2: it all, but it was yet another one of these
Speaker 2: sort of chink in the armor about what I'd been
Speaker 2: taught about the benefits of privatization in my university, to
Speaker 2: you know, to see that we'll really, you know, this
Speaker 2: privatization is everything it was cut up to be. Because
Speaker 2: there's a lot of tension there between the people with
Speaker 2: the contractors who used to be full time employees because
Speaker 2: they've got a big payout verse those that didn't take
Speaker 2: the payout and were still getting their wages. So that
Speaker 2: was an interesting experience as well. But anyway, so I
Speaker 2: worked for them, worked with BBC, so you know, I
Speaker 2: did David Attenberg's time sheets and things like that. I
Speaker 2: was out of the Ling studios as a management counting
Speaker 2: out there. Oasis filmed Champagne soup and over the day
Speaker 2: I was out there, I didn't see them, but they
Speaker 2: were in a couple of rooms next door sort of
Speaker 2: filming that. So that was all pretty cool. But then
Speaker 2: I got a phone call one day saying, how would
Speaker 2: you like a job traveling the world? You know, and
Speaker 2: we'll pay for it. I was like, yeah, I'd love
Speaker 2: to you know, that's random, Yeah, yeah, very random. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was very random. But anyway, yeah, I'd love to you.
Speaker 2: So I've got flat a damn stand for an interview
Speaker 2: and it was probably the shortest account of interview I
Speaker 2: over had the bloke to said if your account, you
Speaker 2: shouldn't know what to do, and then he was more
Speaker 2: interested in my travels to that date. And it turns
Speaker 2: out he was from Brisbane as well. Glenn reed, if
Speaker 2: you're still listening, And anyway, I got a job where
Speaker 2: basically I was based out of Amsterdam for the next
Speaker 2: three years. I was in and out of Amsteam about
Speaker 2: fifteen sixteen times. But I had long story sure about
Speaker 2: eight months in Amsterdam, eight months in Brazil, eight months
Speaker 2: in Norway, eight months in the States, and six months
Speaker 2: between Finland, Chili and Argentina, where I just basically was
Speaker 2: well as my technical role as group financial international Controller.
Speaker 2: And as my boss would say, people either do two
Speaker 2: things when I hear that title, I over either fall
Speaker 2: forward on their knees and start grovelling, or fall backwards
Speaker 2: laughing at such a long winded name. But anyway, look,
Speaker 2: it was just a general dog's body in finance world.
Speaker 2: So board companies installed software, completed financial statements, things like that.
Speaker 2: But it was a great experience because that's turned twenty
Speaker 2: five by the time I got the job, and I
Speaker 2: was basically paid to live in five star hotels and
Speaker 2: go to work every day in different countries and on
Speaker 2: the weekends. The weekends from mind, like when I was
Speaker 2: in the States, you know, I was given the use
Speaker 2: of a Mustang to drive around high cast I got
Speaker 2: a Mustang, as you do. And that was in Sarah SAIDA.
Speaker 2: We did a shared service implementation for all the back
Speaker 2: offices across the States.
Speaker 1: That was a good role.
Speaker 2: In Brazil, I had to train up financial control and
Speaker 2: we bought a company there, you know, same again in Norway.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what do you just on that? Like when
Speaker 1: you work in those environments for long periods of time,
Speaker 1: for such long period fairly long periods of time, Anyway,
Speaker 1: what did you learn about places like Norway versus Brazil
Speaker 1: versus US like, in terms of how countries are run
Speaker 1: by the administration, by the governments. Do you see any
Speaker 1: really stark differences between see what's happening here and was
Speaker 1: there something you would take from there that you would
Speaker 1: love to see happen here.
Speaker 2: Well, Brazil was dealing with inflation the end of it.
Speaker 2: So I didn't have really bad inflation when I was there,
Speaker 2: but we had to pay bills before we got the invoice.
Speaker 2: Well that was just because obviously what it was if
Speaker 2: you've got really rampant inflation, and what is rampant inflation?
Speaker 1: What levels?
Speaker 2: Well, double digit, right, because justly double digit. Yes, so
Speaker 2: if you're looking at anything over twelve percent a year,
Speaker 2: you're losing one percent over thirty days. Yeah, So basically
Speaker 2: they're very short upfront payment terms, like you basically had
Speaker 2: to pay on the day because if you've got rampant inflation,
Speaker 2: which is you know, you can define it anything fifteen percent,
Speaker 2: but Brazil had come off even a higher figure. That
Speaker 2: money just appreciates away. Even in just the daily the
Speaker 2: day to day businesses of dealing with transactions, Inflation is
Speaker 2: a problem. It's not just the cost of living issue,
Speaker 2: it's actually trying to get paid on time. So there
Speaker 2: was that issue. I found the Americans extremely optimistic, you know,
Speaker 2: they were always very optimistic. Remember actually we did it.
Speaker 2: We brought a company in Washington, DC before I went
Speaker 2: down to Sarasota and I was staying in a hotel
Speaker 2: and opposite the hotel they were building a new building
Speaker 2: and they were literally building a level every day. Well,
Speaker 2: and I can remember being shocked and how fast. I
Speaker 2: member thinking, we don't build that fast here in Australia.
Speaker 2: So they were very efficient. And it's not surprising. I
Speaker 2: mean houses, house prices in Australia sorry, in the States
Speaker 2: are much lower than I are here.
Speaker 1: They can build a house there in three months. Yeah
Speaker 1: he is like eighteen months. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Norway I mean obviously very dark, cold, you know, they
Speaker 2: eat lunch at eleven thirty, lots of fish, you know,
Speaker 2: But hard not to love the country. I mean, it
Speaker 2: was just a beautiful country. I had the benefit of
Speaker 2: sort of being there from arriving in the end of
Speaker 2: the winter right through the summer period, so I saw
Speaker 2: the change of seasons as well.
Speaker 1: But we have in terms of administration because we talk
Speaker 1: about social leaning or.
Speaker 2: Well, look I didn't really because I mean I was
Speaker 2: young in my twenties and wasn't necessarily focusing on the
Speaker 2: political aspects of the country. It's just the people. But look,
Speaker 2: the people are the same. Wherever you go, we're all
Speaker 2: the same. It's one race to human race. This is
Speaker 2: what we really want to push forward at first. And
Speaker 2: you know, look, you know, judge the individual, not the identity.
Speaker 2: I was just saying before to some others. You know,
Speaker 2: there's just too much identity politics in this country. And
Speaker 2: that's the one thing traveling really, you know, I viewed
Speaker 2: inside me is that we're just one race to human race,
Speaker 2: that we all just want a better life for our children,
Speaker 2: and there's so much gratitude towards our forefathers. And then
Speaker 2: of course there's the Dutch. I should add I love
Speaker 2: the Dutch, that the Dutch people just fantastic. I loved
Speaker 2: I loved the Netherlands.
Speaker 1: I love this straightforwardness. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, very In
Speaker 1: the early stage, you'd misinterpret it as them being route
Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah, but I worked over for a
Speaker 1: long time too, and and then I loved it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the Dutch. Did you know where you stand? Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Yeah, just then just straight up like you know, like
Speaker 2: you know, if you could ever to do do a deal,
Speaker 2: I'd do some sort of backpack a deal with every
Speaker 2: euzie should go and I'll spend six months living in
Speaker 2: the Netherlands as far as I'm concerned. You know how
Speaker 2: we've got the similar deal with the UK. I'd love
Speaker 2: to do the same with the Netherlands. It's just such
Speaker 2: a great country and great people as well.
Speaker 1: You know, do you think all these things, all these
Speaker 1: experiences you've had in terms of traveling and work, work trouble,
Speaker 1: do you think they have somewhat influenced you when it
Speaker 1: comes to people first? Oh? Absolutely, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean well it's the common denominator of that where
Speaker 2: were just the one race to human race. I mean
Speaker 2: I spent I ended up going backpacking after that role
Speaker 2: for another two years, where I basically traveled globe and
Speaker 2: I spent a lot of time throughout the year sitting
Speaker 2: in bus stations and meeting different people, working with different people.
Speaker 2: And you know, everyone hates their government, doesn't matter what
Speaker 2: nationality here are. They hate their government. I hate paying taxes,
Speaker 2: all of that stuff. But they have a common They
Speaker 2: love their sport. Everyone loves their sport. That's why it's
Speaker 2: such a great way to unify people. You know, they
Speaker 2: love their children, you know, and it's just I mean,
Speaker 2: and here's the thing. The poor of the country I
Speaker 2: went to, the more generous the people.
Speaker 1: Were, and what did you say, they're happier.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they're happy. I certainly much more
Speaker 2: hospitable to myself. Yeah, welcoming, Yeah, welcoming.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I remember one night and I was in Africa. I
Speaker 2: went down to mass fingo ruins in Zimbabwe there and
Speaker 2: I ended up sort of sleeping on this mattehart and
Speaker 2: just thinking how friendly these people were, you know, yet
Speaker 2: again in Iran. You know, I traveled through Iran on
Speaker 2: the way home. I went from Moscow down through all
Speaker 2: the Stars into Iran, Pakistan, India and in Nepal. How
Speaker 2: friendly the Iranians were, because even back in the nineties,
Speaker 2: you know, big bad Iran. But of course the people
Speaker 2: themselves were incredibly friendly and hospitable. And yet again, so
Speaker 2: you know, I was probably a little imperiless periles growing up,
Speaker 2: you know, in the back of World War Two there,
Speaker 2: but you know, I just hate conflicts. I talk about
Speaker 2: my maiden speech. You know, strength to the plomacy is
Speaker 2: strength to position, and sound to plomacy is what we
Speaker 2: really need. And there's a lack of sound to plomacy.
Speaker 2: What does that mean sound diplomacy? Well, you know, understanding
Speaker 2: now the point of view, you know were you mean nation? Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: You know, we use a lot of belligerent rhetoric now
Speaker 2: governments and politicians, so in the same way we use
Speaker 2: it belligerent rhetoric against each other on a domestic level, right,
Speaker 2: you know, labor bashes libra, all liberal bashes labor. You know,
Speaker 2: Punch and Judy show. We've made the trap of doing
Speaker 2: that on international affairs as well, and we shouldn't be
Speaker 2: doing that, right because if things get out of hand there,
Speaker 2: like well, misinterpreted, misinterpreted things can go wrong. I mean
Speaker 2: what we did in Iraq. Iraq was another real come
Speaker 2: to Jesus moment for me, because early two thousand, not
Speaker 2: the ninety one eighty nine one, because that was in
Speaker 2: and out relatively quickly. But what we did in two
Speaker 2: thousand and two to three was it where we started
Speaker 2: by being Iraq, was that chemical weapons of mass destruction
Speaker 2: so called, Yes, so called You know, I don't know
Speaker 2: how many people got killed in that, certainly millions were displaced, injured,
Speaker 2: you know, had their lives turned upside down for what
Speaker 2: was ultimately a lie. And you know, and we've now
Speaker 2: done the same with Syria. You know, we've got the
Speaker 2: head of al Qaeda, you know, exhead of El Kayder
Speaker 2: bloke out a ten million dollar bounty on his head
Speaker 2: running Syria. You know, I went through Syria. This was
Speaker 2: another beautiful country. There's people living there that don't have
Speaker 2: any political inclinations. They're not out to you know. All
Speaker 2: they want to do is a roof over their head,
Speaker 2: food on the table, and a better life for their children.
Speaker 2: And we go and then we destroy their lives because
Speaker 2: of some ideology or some preconceived good guy bad guy thing.
Speaker 2: And it's like, you know, we've got to think about
Speaker 2: these decisions. So this is one of the things that
Speaker 2: really concerns me a lot as we head further into
Speaker 2: the twenty first century. Is this lack of sound of Planmacy,
Speaker 2: I guess, and you know, there's too much belligerent rhetoric.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it definitely has impacted me a lot. Well,
Speaker 2: what I wanted to establish, is that you had real
Speaker 2: life experience. We've established it. I think we're a lot
Speaker 2: to talk to you about. Is that point of ideology?
Speaker 1: Ideology seems to be splitting us up. Absolutely. Yeah. Division
Speaker 1: seems to me to be a part of political play. Yeah,
Speaker 1: is that correct? Yeah? It is, and what's making it's
Speaker 1: part of the part of the game. That's right now.
Speaker 2: It's always been there, but because social media has got
Speaker 2: the news at our fingertips twenty four hours a day,
Speaker 2: and you know, we all are guilty of doom scrolling
Speaker 2: and on the you know, you have five minute break,
Speaker 2: you're on the phone. I mean, when we grew up,
Speaker 2: you would have got the news maybe either the six
Speaker 2: pm at night, six PMS morning, yeah, yeah, at the
Speaker 2: quarter to eight ABC bulletin in the morning. I mean
Speaker 2: you didn't even used to have the Today Show, right,
Speaker 2: I mean I always talk about the cartoons. I can
Speaker 2: remember watching cartoons on school holiday is thinking that was
Speaker 2: a treat. Now there's an entire channel devoted to cartoons.
Speaker 2: And even now the kids don't even go and watch
Speaker 2: ABC twenty four cartoon channel.
Speaker 1: They just go YouTube the YouTube they find them on
Speaker 1: the one. Yeah, the devices right.
Speaker 2: So I think the fact that news is in our
Speaker 2: face all the time is actually polarizing us even more.
Speaker 2: And people just tend to get caught up in that ideology.
Speaker 2: And that was one of my problems with the With
Speaker 2: the Liberal Party, it was always that we had to
Speaker 2: labor as bad. We have to bash them over the head,
Speaker 2: even when we did things wrong, they did the right thing.
Speaker 2: It was always if I didn't say the line because
Speaker 2: I thought, you know, labor was doing the right thing
Speaker 2: or we were doing the wrong thing. You know, I
Speaker 2: would be told to put shut up and get bag really.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah. So it's one of the party line.
Speaker 2: Well you're a party on one and all in or
Speaker 2: step back.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And don't get me wrong, I get that. You know,
Speaker 2: in a party you do have to lie to a point.
Speaker 2: But when we stopped up holding our own values, so
Speaker 2: you know, Angus Taylor, I mean, I've left liberals by
Speaker 2: this stage, voted against the tax cut. When one of
Speaker 2: my last bills, when Jim Chalmers lowered the tax rate
Speaker 2: from sixteen cents to fourteen cents for low income owners,
Speaker 2: Angers voted against it. You know, well, Peter was the leader,
Speaker 2: but Anger's shadow treasurer. And I just I mean I
Speaker 2: said to my liberal ex liberal colleagues at the time,
Speaker 2: I said, what are you doing guys? Like Liberal party
Speaker 2: believes in lower taxes and you're voting against lower taxes.
Speaker 2: You know, like when are you going to This is
Speaker 2: your problem. But back to your question about the idealism, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's just the constant news feed now and there's
Speaker 2: much more political and I think and that's and with
Speaker 2: that having entertainment, so it's also in house what I
Speaker 2: call in house entertainment, right, so you don't have to
Speaker 2: leave home anymore. Back in the old days when we
Speaker 2: gre up, you know, as you said, we had one
Speaker 2: or two channels and the radios. So you get bored,
Speaker 2: you'd have to go out and actually join groups of people.
Speaker 2: You know, it didn't necessarily have to be political groups.
Speaker 2: It could be sporting organizations, volunteer groups, you know, community groups, whatever.
Speaker 2: People don't need to do that anymore because they're at home.
Speaker 2: You don't have to need to leave home. You can
Speaker 2: order uber, you can order ice cream to your house,
Speaker 2: you can order cold steahouse, so you can technically stay
Speaker 2: there forever. So but people then become more and more
Speaker 2: narrow focused, right, And of course when you're on social media,
Speaker 2: and I'm guilty of this as well. You know you're
Speaker 2: not as polite to people, you know, to an avatar
Speaker 2: or someone hiding between it behind an avatar, then what
Speaker 2: you are to you know, if you're speaking face to face,
Speaker 2: you know, your mannerisms drop.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's definitely. And also the algorithms feeding your
Speaker 1: your what you what you like, absolutely so you're never
Speaker 1: actually getting another point of view. Yeah. Yeah. And because
Speaker 1: because I've often wondered about this when it comes to politics,
Speaker 1: particularly the politicians of today. And let's look at the
Speaker 1: Labor Party from moment Legal Anthony Albanezi, the Prime Minister.
Speaker 1: Do you think that politicians are driving the division or
Speaker 1: is social media driving the division? But the politicians are
Speaker 1: using social media to their advantage and therefore playing into it,
Speaker 1: like social media has become part of the politician's playbook,
Speaker 1: into the getting re elected. It's always about it seems
Speaker 1: to me, it's always about getting re elected today over
Speaker 1: and above everything else. That's correct, absolutely.
Speaker 2: I mean when I took a stand on the vaccines,
Speaker 2: for example, that was what I was told Jared, you
Speaker 2: don't worry about you're injured. We've got to get within
Speaker 2: the next election. I really, I've got people. Yeah, I've
Speaker 2: got people here that are having art attacks, you know,
Speaker 2: coughing up blood, you know, having my card idis, etc.
Speaker 2: We need to give these people.
Speaker 1: I don't know, some we've got paralleled some of the
Speaker 1: waist out. Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean I had three years of this, like just
Speaker 2: unstoppable injuries, you know, And I mean I'd ever signed
Speaker 2: up for this, right, But at the same time, that's
Speaker 2: something I couldn't walk past. I mean, it's one thing
Speaker 2: sometimes you let it go through to keep it. You know,
Speaker 2: you might vote with the party and they don't agree
Speaker 2: with it because you realize you can't rock the boat
Speaker 2: all the time, right, But this was something I couldn't
Speaker 2: walk past.
Speaker 1: But no, you're right.
Speaker 2: But look, in answer to your initial question, I think
Speaker 2: they feed each other, you know, so social media reinforces
Speaker 2: politicians views. Politicians then reinforce the views that they think
Speaker 2: are going to get them elected. I mean, I'm in
Speaker 2: this quandary now that you know, if I criticize Pauline handsOn,
Speaker 2: I just get smashed, right, And even I have things
Speaker 2: like not turning up to estimates which to means is
Speaker 2: valid criticism. But her followers or just smashed me. A
Speaker 2: lot of them followed myself as well. But this is
Speaker 2: where I step off the train again. Like I did
Speaker 2: with a liberal party, I'm going to put what's right
Speaker 2: in front of what's in the best interests of the party.
Speaker 2: That's why I actually call the party people first, as
Speaker 2: opposed to party instead of party first. That's where I
Speaker 2: got the name from because I used to say to
Speaker 2: my staff, you know, can we just put the people
Speaker 2: first and do the right thing by the people and
Speaker 2: they'll look after us rather than try and lie to
Speaker 2: them all the time.
Speaker 1: But you did find them. Is that a little not naive?
Speaker 1: But in terms of being voted in, that is because
Speaker 1: you're going to get voted in order to do the
Speaker 1: things that you want to do for the people that
Speaker 1: you think the people what you do do for them.
Speaker 1: But in order to get voted in, what comes first?
Speaker 1: Does the people always come first? Or do sometimes you
Speaker 1: know better? I mean, you know, because like the current
Speaker 1: federal gum they think they know better and everything. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: do they just say hand us everything and we'll sort
Speaker 1: out for well. So yet again this comes down to
Speaker 1: the ability of it being able to explain your position.
Speaker 1: So if you're going to explain your position and try
Speaker 1: and demonstrate why your position is going to help the people,
Speaker 1: and I think they will come with you. But you're right,
Speaker 1: like it is a bit of yet again. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, if you go to purannical, you'll never get
Speaker 1: elected at all, I guess even though yet again, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, one of our policies is the tax re
Speaker 1: threshold of forty five thousand dollars so that all workers
Speaker 1: can pay four thousand dollars less tax. There's fourteen million
Speaker 1: workers in this country, three million retire reason, three million
Speaker 1: small business, right, And that's a good policy. And the
Speaker 1: reason why we're back in is Treasury don't model secondary impacts.
Speaker 1: So you understand losty of money. Right.
Speaker 2: They assume me to give someone a thousand dollars tax cut,
Speaker 2: that that money's not coming back to treasury in the
Speaker 2: next twelve months. So that to me is erroneous. I
Speaker 2: would argue that if you give a tax cut someone
Speaker 2: a low income that most of that money is going
Speaker 2: to go back to treasury in the first month, and
Speaker 2: it's going to have a higher velocity at the lower
Speaker 2: income levels, and at the higher income levels. So yeah,
Speaker 2: if you're on a million bucks and you get a
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars tax cut, you might just go on
Speaker 2: a longer overseas holiday. But if you're on forty grand
Speaker 2: and you get a two thousand dollars tax cut, you're
Speaker 2: going to spend that economy, especially when cost of living
Speaker 2: is running at five percent, inflation running at five percent.
Speaker 2: So yet again, I think if you can demonstrate why
Speaker 2: your policies are in the best interest of the people,
Speaker 2: you will get elected. Obviously, you need the media exposure,
Speaker 2: I would say initially in Howard's early years, he wasn't
Speaker 2: necessarily trying to He was initially a politician of conviction,
Speaker 2: and you know, it took him a long time to
Speaker 2: get there. He had the eighties and the battles with
Speaker 2: Peacock in the eighties, But when he came back in
Speaker 2: ninety five ninety six, he was seen as sort of
Speaker 2: a stabilizing influence after keating the last few years. So
Speaker 2: I think you can get there. But yet again, it
Speaker 2: is hard in this day and age to put out
Speaker 2: a rational set of policies when there's all of the
Speaker 2: red meat out there on social media. And the short,
Speaker 2: the short you know what you call the twenty four
Speaker 2: hour news cycle, and just that Barnaby and his dog barking,
Speaker 2: for example. Yeah, okay, it's a news story, but really,
Speaker 2: you know, it's can we move on to something more important?
Speaker 1: Well? What was important about that? Whether it was Sarah
Speaker 1: Sarah or the way she dealt with him, right, but
Speaker 1: the obeus who deal with him. I mean, I mean
Speaker 1: I thought to myself that was the most important thing
Speaker 1: of the whole the whole episode of the dog barking,
Speaker 1: et cetera. I don't come in what he yelled out,
Speaker 1: shut up, or sit down on some of that, but
Speaker 1: the way Sarah said to him, well, don't worry about
Speaker 1: the just answer the question. Yeah, And I thought his
Speaker 1: response for me, I keep thinking about what were Trump
Speaker 1: said if someone said that to him, Yeah, he'd been
Speaker 1: he would have given it back. Yeah, yeah, but I thought,
Speaker 1: actually Barnaby didn't give it back. I thought Barnet was
Speaker 1: actually very polite to it. Yeah, he gave her an
Speaker 1: opportunity and he had it seemed to be front page
Speaker 1: of everything. What do you think about those you know,
Speaker 1: the ABC, because I mean, well, ye, look, they've got
Speaker 1: a left wing bias, there's no doubt about it. But
Speaker 1: it's more than a bias. So I think Dured like
Speaker 1: it's it's like they go after him. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: But yet again, we had an opportunity when I was
Speaker 2: in the Morrison government. Just start to January, the twenty
Speaker 2: six first week back. It was twenty one or twenty two,
Speaker 2: I can't remember what year, must have been twenty or
Speaker 2: twenty one actually, and you know the ABC was pushing
Speaker 2: calling an invasion day, like blatantly calling a straight a
Speaker 2: day invasion day. I went back said, right, here's our opportunity.
Speaker 2: We can remove the independence of the ABC. So the
Speaker 2: issue with the ABC is is that it's completely independent,
Speaker 2: like too many bureaucracies. Now they've become independent under the
Speaker 2: guys that oh well you can't have politicians interfering with them,
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. The problem with that is, of course,
Speaker 2: once they've become independent, there's no accountability in transparency. They've
Speaker 2: become a force un to themselves. I tried to get
Speaker 2: that moved in the party room. I said, let's say, look,
Speaker 2: we're not going to have our national broadcast the calling
Speaker 2: Australia Day are invasion day right, and we could have
Speaker 2: wedged the cross bench team in the Senate there were
Speaker 2: five at the time, the two one nation senators Jackie Lamby,
Speaker 2: Rex Patrick and Sterling Griff. We would have only had
Speaker 2: to get one of the three non one nation senators
Speaker 2: up and we didn't do anything about it. So yet
Speaker 2: again the ABC run ramp has run rampant because when
Speaker 2: we were in power, we didn't do anything about stopping them.
Speaker 2: And this is the problem with the Coalition is that
Speaker 2: they have empowered the left over the last thirty or
Speaker 2: forty years. They've supported superannuation, they've supported all the institutional
Speaker 2: child care facilities rather than paying parents giving their parents
Speaker 2: greater choice over the top of child care. They want
Speaker 2: John Howard who signed the Renewable Energy Target initially at
Speaker 2: five percent. He brought it in a national curriculum. He
Speaker 2: got rid of nuclear power. So yeah, everyone's frustrated with
Speaker 2: the ABC.
Speaker 1: I get it.
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, you've got to
Speaker 2: work within the machinery government if you want to change it.
Speaker 2: And going back to John Howard, if you read his biography,
Speaker 2: he learned when he think it was the seventy three
Speaker 2: Beal Main campaign when he first ran. He said his
Speaker 2: labor upon killed him with kindness. And if there's something
Speaker 2: I think that we need to do, if the Conservatives
Speaker 2: want to or the Coalition want to become a better
Speaker 2: form of opposition and better politicians, is actually learn how
Speaker 2: to bring people along through the art of persuasion rather
Speaker 2: than constantly harping on about problems. They are just so
Speaker 2: painful to listen to these days. I was just saying,
Speaker 2: you know, saying it to your stuff outside before you know,
Speaker 2: I'm sick of myself winging on social media. And that's
Speaker 2: the thing we want to We want to actually certainly
Speaker 2: people first and know were just a little party, but
Speaker 2: we want to actually present a vision and start to
Speaker 2: give people some hope again, because there is way too
Speaker 2: much pessimism in this country and we are such a
Speaker 2: great country, have so much opportunity. I mean, we've got
Speaker 2: seven million square kilometers of land in a perfect part
Speaker 2: of paradise in the South Pacific where twenty eight million people.
Speaker 2: Biggest city in the world, you Carda's got forty two
Speaker 2: million people in it, and we're complaining about over population here. Granted,
Speaker 2: you know that is true to a degree, but there's
Speaker 2: also other places of Australia. But there's a lot of opportunity.
Speaker 2: And so yet back to your initial question, Yes, the
Speaker 2: ABC's wrong. It will certainly has a bias to it,
Speaker 2: but let's fix it. So yet again, I don't want
Speaker 2: to do what we did to manufacturing, where we walk
Speaker 2: away from the problem. Let's go back and fix it.
Speaker 2: Because I grew up watching four Corners, I grew up
Speaker 2: watching Foreign Correspondent. So my father, you know, he's described
Speaker 2: es further right until the Hut. He listens to the
Speaker 2: Country Hour every day religiously.
Speaker 1: I love it still.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so there's still some magnificent programs on the ABC.
Speaker 2: It is a part of our culture. Rather than just
Speaker 2: bash it over thehead and complain, you know, let's try
Speaker 2: and get in there and try and actually improve it.
Speaker 2: So it represents all of Australians, I mean Australia all over.
Speaker 2: Ian Macamara another legend, yeah, you know, one of the
Speaker 2: gravery Sunday morning absolute six am. Yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: my dad when I lived in Sydney, he was down
Speaker 2: here one time. Macka had him on here and he's
Speaker 2: had him on a couple of other times, you know.
Speaker 2: So yet again, this is something that we should cherish
Speaker 2: and instead of just wanting to, you know, pour fuel
Speaker 2: on it, blow it up, let's try and actually make
Speaker 2: it the great institution that we know it can be.
Speaker 1: I guess so. But you made an interesting point because
Speaker 1: I remember were sitting down with marka Bid once and
Speaker 1: asking Senator Mark A. Bee will form of some of
Speaker 1: that marko, you know, and asking him, you know, if
Speaker 1: you're going to form a new political party, not if
Speaker 1: it was if just anybody was just a conversation, what
Speaker 1: do you need to do? And he said to me
Speaker 1: he probably need to sit down and work out five
Speaker 1: or six policies. Yep, you know. It could be about tax,
Speaker 1: could be about immigration or whatever. Yeah, but five or
Speaker 1: six and you need how you need to know how
Speaker 1: to express that, et cetera, et cetera. But you must
Speaker 1: need those five or six. Let's have a look at
Speaker 1: people first, your party. Yeah, you're not expecting to win
Speaker 1: an election. You were expecting to be part of an
Speaker 1: opposition perhaps or alternately part of a coalition. So let's
Speaker 1: call it.
Speaker 2: Well, hopefully we can get some senators up and influenced decision.
Speaker 1: Make in this way. Yeah, and that's because of our
Speaker 1: system the Senate actually has the eldom say at the
Speaker 1: end of the.
Speaker 2: Day, and it's based on proportional voting and that was
Speaker 2: deliberately set up by a founding fathers to give minor
Speaker 2: parties and get the minor parties to hold the majors
Speaker 2: to account.
Speaker 1: So what what? What am I correcting? What boy am
Speaker 1: I correcting? What a Marke retelling the story about? What? Mark?
Speaker 1: Bib Tommy? And if so, what are people? First? Five?
Speaker 1: Six things?
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm glad you asked that because we have got
Speaker 2: we've got a slogan the Vision, Solutions for today and
Speaker 2: the Vision for tomorrow, and that is based on five
Speaker 2: key policy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So first one is looked the tax TREA threshold, the
Speaker 2: forty five thousand dollars, so everyone pays four thousand dollars
Speaker 2: less in tax yep. The second and we'll pay for
Speaker 2: that by means testing to de find benefits scheme for
Speaker 2: a tired bureaucrats in Canberra, getting rid of subsidies for
Speaker 2: renewables and a couple of other sections of.
Speaker 1: The Tax Act. Okay, so it's funded. Yeah, it's five
Speaker 1: funded by you said. The way you funded funded it
Speaker 1: is by taking money, spend in other places. Yep, So
Speaker 1: do these words, these two things neutralize them. So, but
Speaker 1: why why if someone's earning forty four, nine hundred and
Speaker 1: nine hundred dollars, why do you think they should have
Speaker 1: not pay any tax? Well, what's the what's the thing.
Speaker 2: Because we don't think people should pay tax below the
Speaker 2: cost of living. Listen, if you're getting out of bed
Speaker 2: and put your nose to the grindstone, and you know
Speaker 2: the words of our anthem is wealth for wealth for toil.
Speaker 2: Why would someone earn forty five thousand dollars to day
Speaker 2: four grand tax one most six in super their taking
Speaker 2: pays back to thirty five thousand dollars. We don't want
Speaker 2: these people falling beneath the cracks. And you know, we
Speaker 2: both grew up, you know, back in the time when
Speaker 2: we had more tradees than professional workers. Let me tell
Speaker 2: you, you could probably sack seventy five per cent of professional
Speaker 2: workers in this country and you wouldn't miss them. But
Speaker 2: if you got rid of our guys on those low incomes,
Speaker 2: you know, the wheels of this country, it'd stopped turning
Speaker 2: over very fast. And I'm very determined. So my grandparents
Speaker 2: are all blue collar label he sort of came over
Speaker 2: the dlping the late fifties, but you know, I grew
Speaker 2: up with tradees mechanics. Now my best mates. They're still
Speaker 2: my best mates, and I know the important work they do.
Speaker 2: And I want to make sure that everyone that gets
Speaker 2: out of bed puts their nose to grindstone is properly rewarded.
Speaker 2: And I think it's completely immoral. And businesses get a
Speaker 2: tax duction for the cost of business, right, I think
Speaker 2: workers should get a tax duction for the cost of living.
Speaker 2: You know, it's if you've got a job, it does
Speaker 2: cost you more. You've got to fill your car up
Speaker 2: every week, or buy a ticket on the train. You
Speaker 2: might have to get work clothes, you might have to
Speaker 2: get a suit. You know the girls. You know my
Speaker 2: wife and she has you get a haircut. For a
Speaker 2: female to get a haircut today, it's a couple hundred bucks.
Speaker 2: You know, it's outrageous.
Speaker 1: So what you're saying, Joe, though, is for the if
Speaker 1: you're un forty five thousand, because that's less than a
Speaker 1: thousand bucks a week, it's going to cost you at
Speaker 1: least that in cost of living just to live, just
Speaker 1: to exist. Yeah, it's not holidays. I was sending keep
Speaker 1: schools basic or kids off to ballet whatever. That's just
Speaker 1: living maybe, and just a very basic food and stuff
Speaker 1: that you're saying, effectively, they shouldn't have to pay tax
Speaker 1: because they should otherwise are going to be They're going
Speaker 1: to be needed. That's right exactly.
Speaker 2: But don't forget they pay tax for GST fuel exercise, Yeah,
Speaker 2: buy beer.
Speaker 1: Beer, pay consumption tax. Yeah, yeah, they do pay consumption
Speaker 1: to see right, they are paying taxes, just paying tax
Speaker 1: on their income because if they did, they wouldn't have
Speaker 1: enough money to live. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then the next step, and I mean this, you know,
Speaker 2: I won't make any guarantees about this because I think
Speaker 2: you need to get into the budget to find where
Speaker 2: you can make savings. But we would then like to
Speaker 2: lower the thirty cents on incomes above forty five thousand
Speaker 2: to one hundred, lower it by two cents every year
Speaker 2: for the next fifteen years to get the tax re
Speaker 2: threshold up to one hundred grand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're going to over time, yeah, bring the
Speaker 1: tax free threshold up to one hundred grund. Yeah, over time. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: that makes sense. And what are super You mentioned super before?
Speaker 2: Okay, so that's one of our key policies as well.
Speaker 2: We want to make super voluntary so you get to
Speaker 2: keep the super innuation as part of your wage. If
Speaker 2: you want to do you can make twelve percent more. Exactly,
Speaker 2: you'll get twelve percent more in the head for everybody
Speaker 2: or people undred certain for everyone. No rules as to
Speaker 2: how much importing and takeout. The first twenty five thousand
Speaker 2: dollars in your superannuation will be tax free, and then
Speaker 2: after that it goes back to your normal marginal tax rates.
Speaker 2: I don't think superannuation is doing what it was intended
Speaker 2: to do. So in ninety ninety two, approximately fifty percent retires.
Speaker 2: You're on a full pension, about twenty six twenty five
Speaker 2: per cent retirees or on a part pension. If you
Speaker 2: google ASFA superannuation statistics a straining superhanneration Financial Association Statistics,
Speaker 2: you will see the median balance for women age sixty
Speaker 2: to sixty four is one hundred and sixty two thousand dollars,
Speaker 2: So that means half the women age sixty to sixty
Speaker 2: four have less than one hundred and sixty two thousand
Speaker 2: dollars in the bank. For man, it's two hundred and
Speaker 2: twenty thousand dollars. To go off the full pension, you
Speaker 2: need three hundred sorry, off the full pension. On a
Speaker 2: part pension, you need about three hundred and twenty thousand
Speaker 2: in assets, and to go off the full pension entirely
Speaker 2: you need about eight to nine hundred thousand dollars in assets.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So, admittedly souper is not fully matured yet, it's thirty
Speaker 2: four years old, but it's statistically impossible for low income
Speaker 2: earners if you're going to take twelve percent of their
Speaker 2: salary for them to put enough in the souper to
Speaker 2: actually be able to retire on that amount. Now, bear
Speaker 2: in mind that since ninety ninety two, ten percent of
Speaker 2: people retired with a mortgage, state it's forty percent, right,
Speaker 2: And bear in mind the median salary in this country
Speaker 2: it's eighty two thousand. I'm just going to use eighty thousand.
Speaker 2: If you're on eighty thousand, you need fifty grand to
Speaker 2: live on twenty grand tax, you're left with ten thousand
Speaker 2: dollars to save. Twelve percent of eighty thousand dollars is
Speaker 2: nine thousand, six hundred. So for anyone on a median salary,
Speaker 2: you're literally taking their last one hundred percent of their savings,
Speaker 2: and you're going to put it and give it to
Speaker 2: some bloke and an ivory palace somewhere in a capital city,
Speaker 2: and there's no guarantee you're going to get that money
Speaker 2: back when you're sixty seven. Now, if you're starting off
Speaker 2: working first five years of your life, say you're on
Speaker 2: a median salary, you can earn fifty thousand dollars, right yep.
Speaker 2: The people that support super will go, oh, yeah, Jared,
Speaker 2: you know, but you're going to earn six or seven
Speaker 2: percent in super. That's great. But if you can't use
Speaker 2: that as a deposit for your house, and the median
Speaker 2: house price is a million bucks and it's rising by
Speaker 2: five percent a year, your opportunity cost is fifty thousand
Speaker 2: bucks because house prices a rising faster than you can save.
Speaker 2: So it's a false economy that way. And don't forget
Speaker 2: if your mortgage is six percent, that's after tax income
Speaker 2: you've got to pay with that. So let's say earn
Speaker 2: one hundred grand and earn ten grand in your own
Speaker 2: name in investment income. Then you've got to get a
Speaker 2: ten percent return, pay thirty cents on that to get
Speaker 2: a seven percent return plus one percent management fee just
Speaker 2: to actually make your mortgage meet. So yet again you
Speaker 2: need to generate ten percent on your investment income outside
Speaker 2: of super to make up for the lost like to
Speaker 2: get that six percent halfter tax return that you do
Speaker 2: in SUPER. So yet again your mortgage. It's harder to
Speaker 2: pay your mortgage off because of superannuation as well. And
Speaker 2: not only that, we've now got four trillion dollars in superneration.
Speaker 2: For these people have industry and retail funds. They don't
Speaker 2: get the vote for the boards, so there's no corporate
Speaker 2: accountability there. So you've now got got three trillion outside
Speaker 2: of self managed super funds that are controlled by unelected
Speaker 2: board members.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: And if you control three trillion dollars worth of capital,
Speaker 2: what do you control the economy?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Totally, which by the way, was the original design. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was keeping his design. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so now and so now you've got a corporate
Speaker 2: sector driven by audiology not productivity, right, and they're pushing
Speaker 2: all these agendas that had nothing to do with productivity.
Speaker 2: I actually, I can't believe I'm saying this because I've
Speaker 2: got burn a stock market in the late eighties, my
Speaker 2: mum first bought chairs in September eighty seven. Can you
Speaker 2: believe it? Well, yeah, and because next month they crashed,
Speaker 2: so Mum had to work another ten years. She ended
Speaker 2: up retiring as nurse when she was seventy. But she
Speaker 2: got me into share trading and I didn't know. I
Speaker 2: only found this out up she passed away. She used
Speaker 2: to be a shared trader, trade shares before she got
Speaker 2: married to dad. Way back in the sixties, she had
Speaker 2: HP shares. But we need a bit of that entrepreneurial
Speaker 2: spirit back. And the probably is today.
Speaker 1: No one's going any money. Well, it's the corporate fund managers.
Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah. Yet again one of these things. But
Speaker 1: again what I was saying before, the government saying we'll
Speaker 1: do it for you, yeah, yeah, exactly. We'll take your
Speaker 1: money now, yeah, and we're going to invest it for you,
Speaker 1: yeah exactly, because you're dumb, you don't know how to do it,
Speaker 1: which sort of in some cases probably is true. People
Speaker 1: will gamble it. But this is another example of ideology
Speaker 1: telling you what you can do with your money.
Speaker 2: Acts exactly, that's exactly right. Yeah, and we're better out
Speaker 2: of than you exactly. And what you get now these
Speaker 2: corporate fund managers. They all basically just follow the indexes.
Speaker 2: There's very little entrepreneurialship going on. And I think the
Speaker 2: I'll THEND to be corrected on this. This might have
Speaker 2: been about a year old when I read this article.
Speaker 2: The number of listings on the AXX is declining. They're
Speaker 2: really struggling to get new listings.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is one hundred percent correct. Yeah, because there's
Speaker 1: a punish, Yeah exactly. It's hard work. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But as someone who's a small investor, I hate the
Speaker 2: fifteen percent accelerated retail listing offerings. You'll see that all
Speaker 2: the time. Just as the company is about to kick off,
Speaker 2: they'll raise more take off. When I'll say kick off,
Speaker 2: I mean take off in terms of making money. The
Speaker 2: issue fifteen percent of new shares every years to their
Speaker 2: mates at a diluted price, and you're like, oh, here
Speaker 2: we go again. You know, like they should go back
Speaker 2: to the pro rata way of like if you ain't
Speaker 2: five percent of the company, you get five percent of
Speaker 2: the new issues, you know, so your equity is not diluted.
Speaker 2: But yet again that's just a big boys club between
Speaker 2: the corporate fund managers. As you know, the industry funds
Speaker 2: use run Proxy Advisor combined voting powers around twenty percent.
Speaker 2: So yet again, you control twenty percent of the shares
Speaker 2: on the ax an AX listed company. You get to
Speaker 2: push the left wing ideology you push.
Speaker 1: You change the board or the board is so scared
Speaker 1: of being demoted or taken off the board that they'll
Speaker 1: do everything you want. That's exactly right, even if it
Speaker 1: means not doing something on a straight to day or yep,
Speaker 1: or flying three flags yeah, whatever the case may be. Yep,
Speaker 1: it sounds crazy, yep. And so people first, so we're
Speaker 1: talking about lower tacks rate you want to bring. You
Speaker 1: want to bring the three threshold of forty five and
Speaker 1: over time to one hundred. You mentioned super superminiation. You're saying,
Speaker 1: is it voluntary for everybody? Or you get to keep?
Speaker 2: But if everyone yeah, you get to keep, and people
Speaker 2: will say not everyone can save their own retirement. You're right,
Speaker 2: you know what, that's what the pension's for. But yet again,
Speaker 2: you know the tax breaks for superannuation. The last budget
Speaker 2: sixty billion dollars. The Productivity Commission back in twenty nineteen
Speaker 2: twenty estimated the cost of running super was one percent
Speaker 2: of funds under management, So one percent of four trillion
Speaker 2: is about forty billion. Again, massive cost in financial engineering
Speaker 2: and paper shuffling doesn't produce a cent more. We need
Speaker 2: more real engineers in this country, not pay for financial engineers.
Speaker 2: So that's our second policy. Our third policy is to
Speaker 2: pay trialcare directly to the parents, subject to welfare testing.
Speaker 1: So what does that mean? So the same in relation
Speaker 1: to my kids. They send the kids a childcare before preschool,
Speaker 1: you pay them, will you pay them? Yep?
Speaker 2: And if they want to pay trial care, they can
Speaker 2: use child care. But you've got millions of shift workers
Speaker 2: in this country that can't access childcare at all. So
Speaker 2: you've got nurses who work shift work, police who work
Speaker 2: shift work, fiery hospitality workers. I've got a mate who
Speaker 2: plays in a band with his wife on weekends. He
Speaker 2: can't get his parent on week parents, their parents on
Speaker 2: weekend to look after the kids. Of course, of the
Speaker 2: childcare that wipes out the money they make from the gig.
Speaker 2: You know, we've got fly and fly out workers that
Speaker 2: might pay for you know, be home for seven days
Speaker 2: ten days on seven days off. Why pay for child
Speaker 2: care then? You know, if you want to just get
Speaker 2: an n half the time, do that. You've got people
Speaker 2: in regional Australia that can't even access childcare centers, so
Speaker 2: they all miss out right. So my view is and
Speaker 2: then you've got so if we do that, we give
Speaker 2: shift works great a choice over the hours they can work.
Speaker 2: So there's great at work choices. There, greater flexibility. But
Speaker 2: it's also giving people greater choice in how they parent
Speaker 2: their children. So I stayed at home before it became
Speaker 2: a senator for a couple of years and I'd go
Speaker 2: to mother's group on Tuesday morning and a number of
Speaker 2: mothers would had to go back to work because a
Speaker 2: financial and straints, but they weren't ready to go back.
Speaker 2: You know, they have to go back when I're a
Speaker 2: bit older. But while the kids were still two or three,
Speaker 2: you know, they preferred to stay at home for a
Speaker 2: few more years. So if that bit of money and
Speaker 2: we'll top up, what we'll do is we'll top up
Speaker 2: Family Part eight benefits can help parents stay at home.
Speaker 2: If you want to be a parent, stay home a
Speaker 2: little bit longer. That also gives you the option of
Speaker 2: doing that, you know, help you get out of the
Speaker 2: line at least your kids get to school or something
Speaker 2: like that, and that can help pay off the mortgage
Speaker 2: or make ends meet so you can spend more time
Speaker 2: with their family, because spending time with their children at
Speaker 2: that age is so important, you know.
Speaker 1: And when you look.
Speaker 2: Back, you're not going to go, oh jeez, I'm so
Speaker 2: glad I let the kids, you know, childcare center when
Speaker 2: I was two years old and went back to working
Speaker 2: extra three years earlier, so you know, and.
Speaker 1: They should have a choice. They should have a choice,
Speaker 1: just like souper. Yeah. In other words, it shouldn't be
Speaker 1: again the government saying, look, look handed over, dust will
Speaker 1: take ConTroll of all this for you. Yeah. And the
Speaker 1: other thing is should I think be honest with every
Speaker 1: time childcare centers get more money, Well, they do is
Speaker 1: put the price up exactly. Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't go
Speaker 1: back to any but there's no real beneficiary other than
Speaker 1: the people and the joints.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, that's right. And the union, so the fastest
Speaker 2: growing union in Australia's United Voice when Albanize so Albanesi
Speaker 2: in the twenty two election had to pay childcare workers
Speaker 2: three and a half billion dollars directly if tax payers
Speaker 2: money because the childcare centers couldn't afford to pay the
Speaker 2: childcare workers. He's now had to renew that again. But
Speaker 2: a part of that deal was that childcare workers had
Speaker 2: to be unionized. So fourteen dollars a week by fifty
Speaker 2: weeks here, seven hundred bucks a year times I'm not
Speaker 2: sure if it's two hundred thousand childcare workers. Well even
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand, that's seventy million going into union coffers.
Speaker 2: Two hundred thousand, it's one hundred and forty million. So
Speaker 2: you know, when Labour tells you that, you know they
Speaker 2: really want early childhood education, it's all about getting more
Speaker 2: money into the union coffers.
Speaker 1: And then then the unions that support the government in
Speaker 1: terms of the next election.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, and you know, let's keep the childcare
Speaker 2: industry going. You know, would you get a little route, Well, look,
Speaker 2: there's definite childcare needs. We need to get on to
Speaker 2: why two parents need to work, and hopefully the time
Speaker 2: dates do that so it's not a raw in sense
Speaker 2: two parents have to work and I can understand why,
Speaker 2: So maybe i'll jump on to that.
Speaker 1: You do that, they're out.
Speaker 2: So there are three solutions for the day now, our
Speaker 2: vision for tomorrow, the next two policies and The first
Speaker 2: one is monetary policy. And I'm really glad, I'm really
Speaker 2: excited that you yeah, that you invited me down today
Speaker 2: because being a next a bank of yourself, you'll appreciate this.
Speaker 2: Our monetary policy is the most misunderstood and least discussed
Speaker 2: policy of all and it is the most important policy
Speaker 2: that we have to fix in this country before anything else.
Speaker 1: It drives everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it drives everything. Capital meant you know this yourself, Mark,
Speaker 2: Capital management is king. If there's something we've learned now
Speaker 2: that years in finance, you've got to know how to
Speaker 2: manage capital. And we've been brainwashed on the difference between
Speaker 2: debt and equity. And I'll touch on that in a minute.
Speaker 2: But if we go back to why two parents are
Speaker 2: having to work today, it goes back to nineteen eighty
Speaker 2: five and Paul Keating lifted capital controls the private banks
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty five at eight billion dollars in foreign debt.
Speaker 2: By two thousand and eight, that eight hundred billion dollars
Speaker 2: in foreign debt. That money was leant against housing. It
Speaker 2: wasn't so as your name and finance, the net present
Speaker 2: the value of an assets and net present value of
Speaker 2: future income streams. Right, we went from valuing assets based
Speaker 2: on the earnings of an asset to how much money
Speaker 2: we could borrow from offshore. Right, so we would brainwash
Speaker 2: at the university. You can't put money out of thin air, right, Okay,
Speaker 2: Well what we did, We've done something even worse. We've
Speaker 2: started borrowing money that was printed out of thin air
Speaker 2: by foreign countries. In particular in the late eighties it
Speaker 2: was Japan. So what's happened is house prices with that
Speaker 2: extra credit and the system have gone from four to
Speaker 2: five times earnings to ten to twelve times earnings. So
Speaker 2: of course you've had to send two parents back to
Speaker 2: work to pay for the mortgage. Hence the creation of
Speaker 2: the child care industry in the late nineties, remember Eddie
Speaker 2: Groves and cod and then what we saw ABC Learning
Speaker 2: and that ended up being a stock market collapse, bubble
Speaker 2: and a crash. And then in two thousand and eight
Speaker 2: we had the real GFC crash based on irresponsible credit practices.
Speaker 2: In a Norton hemisphere. We nearly had the same thing
Speaker 2: happened here. A mining boom kept us going. But you know,
Speaker 2: you didn't remember storm Financial But one of the ways
Speaker 2: that we kept house prices strong here throughout. That was
Speaker 2: Kevin right allowed temporary vs A holders i e. Foreign
Speaker 2: students to start buying houses in Australia. So that meant
Speaker 2: that basically Nana created the foreign student sector as well. Right,
Speaker 2: another sector that pumps some money into the economy but
Speaker 2: distracts us from other parts of the economy we need
Speaker 2: to focus on. So that irresponsible credit practice has basically
Speaker 2: from what Keating did in nineteen eighty five of letting
Speaker 2: unrestricted capital inflows into this country for consumption. I mean
Speaker 2: housing is important, don't get me wrong, but it's ultimately
Speaker 2: a consumption tool. Has saw house prices rise to the
Speaker 2: roof and then the money that we pay on that
Speaker 2: eight hundred billion, the interest that's not even taxed, right,
Speaker 2: so you know your parents, we put interest in the bank,
Speaker 2: we pay tax on it. The foreign banks don't have
Speaker 2: to pay tax on that. I'm not sure if you're
Speaker 2: familiar with one twenty eight at for the thirty six
Speaker 2: Act the Public Office Tech. Yeah, so as long as
Speaker 2: this has probably spread, but of course, yeah, it's got
Speaker 2: to be Yeah, it's got to be initial offering in
Speaker 2: the public market. Yeah, that's right, in a proper spread.
Speaker 2: That's correct. Yeah, So there's a few factors there, but
Speaker 2: long story short, it cost the budget about three.
Speaker 1: But with hold at tax, there's no hot attacks basically yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So on the interest paid to the foreign interitet, that's
Speaker 1: exactly right. As long as the initial offering, as long
Speaker 1: as the offering initial offering, I should say, as opposed
Speaker 1: to the secondary market, Yeah, has enough spread, in other words,
Speaker 1: enough participants. If you just have one, one person, like
Speaker 1: it's just pimcoat being putting in the eight hundred million
Speaker 1: or a billion, that's not enough spread. But what's interesting
Speaker 1: matter that though it's interesting jury you should talk about
Speaker 1: this because it was kidding who sort of deregulated this process.
Speaker 1: And it's an interesting thesis because I never thought about
Speaker 1: it like this, but in terms of a couple of mics.
Speaker 1: But I never thought about this. But the extra money
Speaker 1: coming into Australi because banks probably raised probably fund housing,
Speaker 1: maybe future Center's fun through deposits taken here Australia. Money
Speaker 1: you might put in a positive, I'd put it in
Speaker 1: a positive whatever, which is the way they are the
Speaker 1: only way they used to do it before. Now the other
Speaker 1: fifty percents coming from somewhere overse the whole Europe, Japan,
Speaker 1: in UK, wherever Southeast Asia these days. And but that
Speaker 1: that's here to stay. I mean because there was so
Speaker 1: much money available. The bank's accessed it and it was
Speaker 1: cheap and they could sort of what they could do
Speaker 1: is build around it so they could hedge their currency risk,
Speaker 1: their pre payment risks, they could head all these risks
Speaker 1: associated with it, and they could still get a tuber
Speaker 1: then they would have had to pay if they took
Speaker 1: it from a depositor who are in Australia. So the
Speaker 1: banks are making really good margins and they're therefore will
Speaker 1: take the We're desperate, they were desperate to lend it,
Speaker 1: so it's not here to stay. If I can help
Speaker 1: it and the money is you get them. But all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, the money is available to you as
Speaker 1: a borrower. Because this has been my thesis all along.
Speaker 1: If I can save just let's use a million dollar
Speaker 1: purchase price, I can save two hundred thousand dollars deposit,
Speaker 1: and the bank says to mell Land, you eight hundred thousand,
Speaker 1: and just forget about stamps. You just get that, and
Speaker 1: for some reason the property goes up to one point
Speaker 1: one million in the bank says, don't worry, Mark, I'll
Speaker 1: lend you nine hundred thousand dollars. The borrow is okay,
Speaker 1: I'll take it that borrows don't look at it as
Speaker 1: I owe nine hundred thousand dollars. They don't look at
Speaker 1: it that way. I know this for remind research. They're
Speaker 1: just thinking, what's that extra hundred thousand is going to
Speaker 1: cost me per month? And it might be two three
Speaker 1: hundred bucks. But all that does is push that house
Speaker 1: price up because everybody who's buying that house when the
Speaker 1: vendor wants one point one, everybody is all borrowing nine
Speaker 1: hundred thousand, like the bank will lend it to every bidder. Yeah,
Speaker 1: every single person in the room. They don't say, oh wow,
Speaker 1: we're borrowing nine hundred thousand dollars for thirty years or
Speaker 1: in those days are twenty years, twenty five years, but
Speaker 1: thirty years. These days, they're not going to say that.
Speaker 1: They're going to say, it's just going to cost us
Speaker 1: extra couple hundred bucks a month to live in this
Speaker 1: beautiful house. Yeah, so we'll we'll pay one point one.
Speaker 1: And that's how house prices get out of control. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: that's right, and the problem is if that extra funding.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing we need so prior to keyting,
Speaker 1: So let's use the million dollars example. So interesting enough,
Speaker 1: the CBA is about eighty seven percent funded actually internally,
Speaker 1: but they're going to the biggest depositive exactly, that's right. But
Speaker 1: we don't have enough depositors, by the way.
Speaker 2: So can I do that? Is this is what exactly
Speaker 2: want to touch on. So when I was at the
Speaker 2: Bank a Quaanslane, for every million we lent, you're right,
Speaker 2: like forty percent was deposits, domestic deposits, sixty percent was
Speaker 2: international wholesale funding. Now, before Keating had had lifted capital controls,
Speaker 2: the most the Bank Acquaenslane could have lamp was four
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars, not a million dollars. Right, So that
Speaker 2: automatically means now, as you say, if you're going to
Speaker 2: borrow more, sixty percent of that money is now going
Speaker 2: to be paid off. Show's interest. Right in the old days,
Speaker 2: when all they could land was four hundred thousand dollars,
Speaker 2: that was actually a virtuous cycle because what that money
Speaker 2: was coming from was the term deposits of the older generation.
Speaker 2: They'd land through the bank to the younger generation, and
Speaker 2: the younger generation back through the bank would pay back
Speaker 2: to the older generation, and that would keep and that
Speaker 2: would keep house prices linked to the savings and the
Speaker 2: earnings of the prior generation. When Keating lifted those capital
Speaker 2: controls and debt went from eight billion to eight hundred
Speaker 2: billion foreign debt, we basically decoupled the price of houses
Speaker 2: from earnings. And so first, the first generation loved it
Speaker 2: right for the first twenty years because they were all
Speaker 2: living off the boom of the house prices, and we
Speaker 2: saw that here in Sydney. But now the next generation's
Speaker 2: coming through and they're paying the price for it because
Speaker 2: they're struggling even to get into the housing larn has
Speaker 2: never kept up. That's exactly right, And so complimenting Keating
Speaker 2: lifting capital controls of John Button getting rid of the
Speaker 2: tariffs on manufacturing, whereby we let manufacturing go offshore. Now,
Speaker 2: there's no doubt that we did struggle to compete with
Speaker 2: Asian labor at the time, but the problem was we
Speaker 2: did lose earnings capacity when we did that by letting
Speaker 2: our manufacturing go off shore. And there's a fantastic opportunity
Speaker 2: right now that no politician other than an ex politician
Speaker 2: sitting here, Like most factories today are automated. You know
Speaker 2: the argument that we can no longer compete with offshore
Speaker 2: life because costs. Yeah, because the costs right. So you know,
Speaker 2: when we export iron ore and cocing coal, we should
Speaker 2: be parking that at Darwin in a steel factory. They're
Speaker 2: turning it into brisket steel. And instead of exporting coal
Speaker 2: a one hundred dollars a ton exported at five hundred
Speaker 2: dollars a time for brisket steel. Now, we might bring
Speaker 2: a lot of jobs back on toour but we can
Speaker 2: capture more upside and tax that to start paying for
Speaker 2: all those extra services we're going to need as the
Speaker 2: population ages.
Speaker 1: Because everything is robotically control these days.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not just in steel factories, a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2: And if we can get nuclear here and get more
Speaker 2: base load energy and drive down the cost of energy,
Speaker 2: bring back stamp duty on shared trading to abolish payroll tax.
Speaker 2: Another big mistake. When the GST was brought in, we
Speaker 2: got rid of stamp duty on shared trading. So fifty
Speaker 2: six percent of fifty to sixty percent of the stock
Speaker 2: market now is traded by foreign bots, right, who just
Speaker 2: scalped the market. So we should be starting hitting them,
Speaker 2: hitting them with stamp duty really yeah, absolutely, well yeah,
Speaker 2: and then getting rid of payroll tacks they have attack,
Speaker 2: get rid of the tax on productivity and reply with
Speaker 2: a tax.
Speaker 1: Did you see payroll tax is a tax on productivity? Oh? Absolutely, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a shocking tax man John Howard. If you remember
Speaker 1: John introduced it in the jest, he said, we got
Speaker 1: the design here was to give it a stame duty
Speaker 1: and payroll tax. That's correct. Yeah, but I don't think
Speaker 1: they have a raised enough. They just didn't raise enough.
Speaker 1: So do you think there's an argument then, for example,
Speaker 1: in relation to your party, to increase the couple of
Speaker 1: the jest?
Speaker 2: No no interest in raising jest. If anything, I would
Speaker 2: abolish it and just bring in one percent transaction tax
Speaker 2: on financial transactions because it used to.
Speaker 1: Be six cents every hundred dollars or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was something like that, but same duty. I'm
Speaker 2: too abount of share training, yeah yeah, because when I
Speaker 2: started buying shares in the late eighties, we used to
Speaker 2: pay steam. Yeah, I remember doing do the same and
Speaker 2: everywhere except Northern Territory.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, okay, because I remember a lot of share
Speaker 1: transfers used to get executed the nord Territory. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: the firm I was that anyway, Yeah, yeah, courel Yeah,
Speaker 1: because it didn't have it. But yeah, but so, but
Speaker 1: that's interesting. So you you would abolish pay or tax
Speaker 1: the states and give the states the power to know we.
Speaker 2: Tax it nationally and get distribute to them, get back
Speaker 2: to them. Yeah yeah, okay, yeah, And likewise, we want
Speaker 2: to bring back national government insurance office like the old
Speaker 2: insurance offices. If you run a national corporation today, you
Speaker 2: have to take out workers compensation in six different states.
Speaker 1: That's crazy, that's crazy. Well I do that in my
Speaker 1: business now. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, So let's just have a one stop shop for
Speaker 2: national government insurance. Fifty percent of insurance now is reinsurance
Speaker 2: paid off. Sure, we should just reinsure ourselves and the
Speaker 2: federal guvernment can do a QB in sun corporate all
Speaker 2: that as well, and we can lower the cost of
Speaker 2: insurance as well. So let's get rid of payroll tax,
Speaker 2: let's standardized workers compensation. Let's lower the cost of insurance
Speaker 2: as well. So that's one of our policies, not quite
Speaker 2: it comes under a monetary policy banner.
Speaker 1: But going back to let's go back to the monetary
Speaker 1: policy as a vision vision policies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what would you do the RBA, So we
Speaker 2: want it to be accountable to Parliament even though it
Speaker 2: does play an important role, and we also want to
Speaker 2: use it payment systems underwriting new CBA as well. Now,
Speaker 2: what we wanted to say, our big kicker at the
Speaker 2: Martyship policy is we want an infrastructure bank. So we
Speaker 2: want to fund our own infrastructure through quantitative easy in
Speaker 2: a productive manner. We were told at university that it's
Speaker 2: irresponsible for governments to print money out of thin air.
Speaker 2: Now that is fifty percent correct. If you print and
Speaker 2: spend that is bad. Inflation is a relative number between
Speaker 2: demand and supply. If you print and spend it increase demand.
Speaker 2: That's absolutely that wrong.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing.
Speaker 2: If you print and build and increase the supply of
Speaker 2: power stations, increase the supply of dams, you're actually going
Speaker 2: to deal with the structural imbalances of this country. Because
Speaker 2: one of the problems we've got ever since the Tasmanian
Speaker 2: damned decisions in eighty three is that state governments can't
Speaker 2: build regional infrastructure because the inner city greenies stop it
Speaker 2: from being built, and they come in over the top
Speaker 2: through the federal government to stop it. But what we
Speaker 2: want to do in the same way, if I said
Speaker 2: to you that I was going to bring into private
Speaker 2: Billo center, I was still a senator. I'm going to
Speaker 2: bring in a private Builder's not BHP from issuing new
Speaker 2: shares on the stock market to build a coal mine
Speaker 2: that was going to generate a fifteen per cent return
Speaker 2: on equity. You'd think I was stupid, wouldn't you. You'd go,
Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with bohp issuing new shares out of
Speaker 2: thin air, provided they're building an asset that's going to
Speaker 2: generate a return. Governments can do the same thing, provided
Speaker 2: they match it with you understand secured secured lines versut
Speaker 2: unsecured lines. They build infrastructure, profit center, infrastructure, dams, power stations,
Speaker 2: toll roads, ports, airports, telecommunications. Okay, all of those assets
Speaker 2: make money. And what you do is toll roads is
Speaker 2: a classic example Sidney. Today, what you're five million people
Speaker 2: paying ten bucks a toll and one hundred years time
Speaker 2: it will be ten million people paying a hundred bucks
Speaker 2: are toll?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: It's just a money making machine. Why on Earth would
Speaker 2: your private toll roads right their natural monopolies anyway. So
Speaker 2: what we want to do is we will issue one
Speaker 2: new share and call and untapped wealth, set up an
Speaker 2: infrastructure banking Canberra. That money will then lend bonds or
Speaker 2: issue infrastructure bonds to state governments to build those profit
Speaker 2: center infrastructure assets have fifty years to repay the debt. Now,
Speaker 2: in the case of say you build a dam for
Speaker 2: a billion dollars, you won't just issue the state government
Speaker 2: a billion dollars. It might take four years to build.
Speaker 2: So you'll issue the state government five million dollars for
Speaker 2: two hundred weeks to build the dam. But here's the thing.
Speaker 2: Thirty percent of that's going to come straight back to
Speaker 2: camber and taxes in the first week, and the other
Speaker 2: seventy percent of the money is going to spin through
Speaker 2: the economy paying people to build things right. And we
Speaker 2: can do that because where does the wealth, Where does
Speaker 2: the ingredients for the dam come from? It comes from
Speaker 2: the water out of the sky. We don't pay the
Speaker 2: clouds for it to rain. We don't pay the sun
Speaker 2: to give us that sunshine. If I drop a bull
Speaker 2: in a paddic with twenty twenty cows and come back
Speaker 2: a year later, I've got twenty carps, you know. I
Speaker 2: mean that's coming from mother nature. Mother nature gives us
Speaker 2: this recurring wealth and that's why we can justify. But
Speaker 2: the key thing is you've got to match your credit
Speaker 2: as you expand it. Because what we do today is
Speaker 2: we expand our credit on this side of the balance sheet,
Speaker 2: you know, it'stead of a balance sheet. We do it
Speaker 2: through foreign debt. We should do it through domestic equity.
Speaker 2: And then the breazon being that when you make profits
Speaker 2: here from these assets, it comes back as dividends to
Speaker 2: our children, not as interest off shore. And that's the
Speaker 2: fundamental brainwashing exercise that happened to us in our generation,
Speaker 2: is that we weren't taught the difference between debt and equity,
Speaker 2: and we've grown up relying on foreign debt instead of
Speaker 2: generating out the mestic equity. All equity is title. Our
Speaker 2: forefathers built this country. They gave us this title, They
Speaker 2: fought for it, they built it right. We have title
Speaker 2: over all the rain that comes out of sky, free,
Speaker 2: all the sunlight, the minerals in the soil. We have
Speaker 2: that title, why do we give it away? So if
Speaker 2: we build a dam for a billion dollars, for example,
Speaker 2: and most governments will go out and borrow a billion
Speaker 2: dollars off shore, that means the first billion dollars in
Speaker 2: wealth we make, we just let it go off shore,
Speaker 2: and another twenty five playing back. Yeah, and another twenty
Speaker 2: five years interest of four percent. That's another billion dollars
Speaker 2: in interest paid off shore. So we've just given up
Speaker 2: two billion dollars of our untapped wealth the foreign banks
Speaker 2: instead of here keeping it here for our children to inherit.
Speaker 2: And we have to do that because another stupid thing
Speaker 2: of what happened when Keating lived to capital controls. He
Speaker 2: allowed savings banks to go out and do whatever they liked.
Speaker 2: So of course Victorian savings bank State bank went out
Speaker 2: and bought Tricontinental.
Speaker 1: You'd remember this, I do remember it.
Speaker 2: Sent the bank broke, nearly sent Victorian state government broke
Speaker 2: John Kerner. So then Jeff Kennett came in and started
Speaker 2: privatizing all our assets, state assets. And of course this
Speaker 2: is you know, we talk about the federal government trillion
Speaker 2: dollar debt. State governments are even in a bigger places.
Speaker 1: Another trillionent adim all up. Absolutely. Yeah, there's another trillium
Speaker 1: we are in Australia. National ended, state and state government
Speaker 1: debt added together is two trillion dollars, that's correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and don't forget the four hundred and sixty billion
Speaker 2: dollars sitting in franking credits that haven't been paid out
Speaker 2: yet either. Well yeah, so no one ever talks about
Speaker 2: that either. So that's another policy of the lot to
Speaker 2: talk about later. But so this is the thing. We've
Speaker 2: got to secure title over our unsapped wealth because that's
Speaker 2: the only way out of this mess, is to go
Speaker 2: back to building infrastructure that's going to generate recurring wealth.
Speaker 2: Because when we privatized all that infrastructure, we started letting
Speaker 2: even more assets go off shore. But even more importantly,
Speaker 2: we started to let go of the skills that our
Speaker 2: children needs. Not enough to just build an infrastructure and
Speaker 2: leave them infrastructure. We've got to teach them the right skills.
Speaker 2: So complementing our infrastructure.
Speaker 1: Bank isn't is this coming to the RBA head Well?
Speaker 2: Under monetary policy monetary policy, monetary policy, you manage monetary
Speaker 2: policy through three leaves qualitative easing, which is what we
Speaker 2: do now, which yet again changing. If you've got washed
Speaker 2: up in a desert island, would you go and pull
Speaker 2: some leaves off a tree and start bartering leaves and
Speaker 2: changing the price of the leaves. No, you'd actually start building,
Speaker 2: you know, a fire, you'd build a house, you'd look
Speaker 2: for a water supply. You'd actually start building infrastructures. Yet,
Speaker 2: not not manipulating the price of paper assets, but building
Speaker 2: really infrastructure. So we rely too heavily on qualitative easy.
Speaker 2: I used to go ask the ABI this and estimates. Right,
Speaker 2: of course, their hands are tired because they can only
Speaker 2: deal with qualitative easing. What we need to do is
Speaker 2: deal with quantitative easing, I build real assets and expand
Speaker 2: the volume of credit, which, by the way, in the
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty seven Banking Raw Commission, the recommendation of that
Speaker 2: Raw Commission was the central bank shoill always control the
Speaker 2: volume of credit in the system, not foreign banks, our
Speaker 2: central bank. So we've got to use quantitative easing. And
Speaker 2: any other way, of course, is through macro potential controls.
Speaker 2: You know, you can't have a five percent deposit, You've
Speaker 2: got to have a twenty percent deposit for a house.
Speaker 2: You know, Savings banks can't go buying investment banks things
Speaker 2: like that. So this all comes under monetary policy, under
Speaker 2: the lever of quantitative easing, but in a productive manner.
Speaker 2: So we're going to bring back our bank over here
Speaker 2: to keep branches open in the regions because as you know,
Speaker 2: a lot of bank branches are closing in regional Australia.
Speaker 2: That's no good for businesses in small towns that you
Speaker 2: can't access the bank and get banking services. Plus O
Speaker 2: plus our state government Insurance office Infrastructure bank over here
Speaker 2: that will also make money. We're going to put the
Speaker 2: profits from those two banks into a middle bank called
Speaker 2: the Infrastructure Bank, sorry, a development bank, and that development
Speaker 2: bank will also lend back to state governments for schools
Speaker 2: of cost center infrastructure schools, hospitals, for counsels for things
Speaker 2: like sewerage works, so that the sort of stuff of
Speaker 2: the subs council, building houses.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But what we want to do is by having
Speaker 2: that three bank policy, we want to remove the cost
Speaker 2: of finance on our own currency for governments because we're
Speaker 2: really at the moment paying tax twice once through using
Speaker 2: the utility the infrastructure and again on the interest that
Speaker 2: we have to borrow to build that infrastructure.
Speaker 1: There must have been realized we're borrowing the interest to
Speaker 1: pay the principle. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, and we don't need
Speaker 1: to do that. We should issue it as equity, not
Speaker 1: as dead, but on the condition that it's secured against
Speaker 1: an our set that makes money, just like you're doing
Speaker 1: a bank. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, Like someone came to Wizard and said, oh, I
Speaker 2: want to borrow a million bucks and didn't have any collateral,
Speaker 2: you wouldn't lend them to them. So they've got to
Speaker 2: have it's got to be a hardcore asset. And we've
Speaker 2: got a seven million square that is twenty eight million people.
Speaker 2: We have so much potential in this country. We need
Speaker 2: to invest in our own future, for our own children.
Speaker 2: And complementing this is bringing back a military apprenticeship scheme
Speaker 2: that will actually start to train our younger people and
Speaker 2: get a lot more people back on the tools. So
Speaker 2: I was born nineteen seventy. My sister was born sixty four.
Speaker 2: So when she went to high school in seventy seven,
Speaker 2: there were four classes in grade eight. By the time
Speaker 2: she left in year twelve, there was half a class left.
Speaker 2: It's been forty years since the Button Plan that generation
Speaker 2: is now retiring. That was the last generation whereby more
Speaker 2: people are on the tools than in paper shuffling in offices.
Speaker 2: So we're going to have this. This is why we
Speaker 2: have to have such a high immigration rate for skilled labor,
Speaker 2: because so many people that were trained on the tools
Speaker 2: and doing apprenticeships, they're all retiring. And our younger generation
Speaker 2: ended up going off to university thanks to the Dawkins
Speaker 2: plane late eighties nineteen ninety we all sent them off
Speaker 2: to the university to get broken binwashed, right, So we've
Speaker 2: got to get them back on the tools, and that's
Speaker 2: what this military apprenticeship will do. And we want to
Speaker 2: expand the men join the military.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The reason why is that it's very You don't get
Speaker 2: paid a lot as an apprentice, So if we can
Speaker 2: give them free accommodation, food and food, it'll help them
Speaker 2: save money. What they earn they get to keep. And
Speaker 2: then we want to use that as a pathway into
Speaker 2: a military engineering call, civil engineering call and un Mechanical
Speaker 2: Electrical Engineering Corps to actually start building roads and power stations.
Speaker 2: Because wee snowy hydro two two billion budget, blowing out
Speaker 2: the forty finion but not finished yet not even finished, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, you can't pick up the phone if not
Speaker 2: don't want to get involved with the war. But you
Speaker 2: can't pick up a phone to a foreign building contractor
Speaker 2: in the middle of the war and ask them to
Speaker 2: rebuild the road if it gets bombed. You know, we've
Speaker 2: got to have the ability here to build ourselves, build
Speaker 2: for ourselves, and we don't really have much manufacturing left.
Speaker 2: So if we can do it, and it's not you know,
Speaker 2: it's not compulsory, it's not anything like that. It's just
Speaker 2: an alternative that if you want to leave school at sixteen,
Speaker 2: we'll pay for you. And we're going to fund that
Speaker 2: by increasing student visa fees from well it's just gone
Speaker 2: to five thousand it was two thousand to twenty thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: So if you're a foreign student, you know, they come here,
Speaker 2: they can pay up to one hundred thousand dollars for
Speaker 2: university degree only. The government's only been clipping two thousand
Speaker 2: dollars for student visa. Why are we doing that? If
Speaker 2: you're here for four years two hundred weeks, that's ten
Speaker 2: dollars a week rent for our infrastructure. We should charge
Speaker 2: one hundred dollars a week for our infrastructure, get twenty
Speaker 2: grand and then for three hundred thousand foreign students, we
Speaker 2: want to bring it down for a million. Get six
Speaker 2: billion in FIGN student fees, visa fees that can help
Speaker 2: fund our military apprentices. Who you sit down with it
Speaker 2: working all this stuff out. Oh, I just do it myself.
Speaker 2: I do and know, I just sort of I've been
Speaker 2: thinking about this stuff for twenty years. So this is
Speaker 2: the only reason. I mean, I've lost my position as
Speaker 2: a senator, as you know. But it's just this drive
Speaker 2: to get these ideas out there because it just kills me,
Speaker 2: like I'm so grateful to sacrifice as my own parents,
Speaker 2: my forefathers, that I want to make sure get the
Speaker 2: same opportunity as our forefather escaped to us.
Speaker 1: What was fifth? Second? Vision? Second?
Speaker 2: I just want to have a little story there before
Speaker 2: I get to the fifth one. So, as you know,
Speaker 2: the first guy to issue in currency in Australia was
Speaker 2: Lochland Macquarie. First seventeen years of the colony, they relied
Speaker 2: on foreign currency. There was a drought in eighteen hundred
Speaker 2: and five that foreign currency got repatriated, so they started
Speaker 2: bartering in rum that literally went tits up thanks the
Speaker 2: Rum rebellion. So Lochland mcquarie was the first governmor to
Speaker 2: come to Australia and says, look at us as a country,
Speaker 2: not a colony. So you need to run a country.
Speaker 2: You need obviously a military to provide law and order,
Speaker 2: a taxation system and a monetary system. He issued the
Speaker 2: Holy Dollar, as you know, which is built the Sydney Hospital.
Speaker 2: Syney Barracks would still stand on the Quarry Street today.
Speaker 2: But what was interesting was he used that Spanish paso,
Speaker 2: which was the reserve currency of its day, as our currency.
Speaker 2: But what he did he punched a hole in it,
Speaker 2: and he punched a hole in it to make sure
Speaker 2: it didn't get exported offshore again. So this is our
Speaker 2: last policy. We want to increase the rate of tax
Speaker 2: on profits sent off shore to be higher than the
Speaker 2: rate of tax here in this country. So because ultimately
Speaker 2: you take fires. In twenty twenty two they made one
Speaker 2: point four billion dollars in sales here, they shifted a
Speaker 2: billion dollars off shore in royalties to island. Island's got
Speaker 2: a company tax rate at twelve and a half cents.
Speaker 1: As long as you're in the middle of Dublin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in middle of Dublin, in the tax free area, yeah,
Speaker 2: tax free area. And as withholding tax here of ten cents,
Speaker 2: so ten plus twelve so one of the things. Yet
Speaker 2: again we were taught you can't have double taxation. That's
Speaker 2: not right. I learned this at Westfield. It's the cumulative
Speaker 2: rate of tax that you have that matters, right, So
Speaker 2: ten plus twelve and a half is twenty two and
Speaker 2: a half. That's still seven and a half cents, less
Speaker 2: than thirty cents. So we lost when we let that
Speaker 2: billion dollars go off shore. We lost three hundred million
Speaker 2: dollars in company tax, which we did recoup one hundred
Speaker 2: with holding taxes. But we were two hundred million dollars
Speaker 2: worse off islands one hundred and twenty five million dollars
Speaker 2: better off of just having head office. So today that's
Speaker 2: all I had, by the way, Yeah, yeah, that's right,
Speaker 2: and they do. There's a foot four kilometer a circle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you've got an office there, you'd pay
Speaker 1: the low tax rate.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and to do nothing. Absolutely, but we let
Speaker 2: all this wealth. You go and get a plumber here
Speaker 2: in Sydney tonight. You google it and the plumbers based
Speaker 2: in Sydney, the customers based in Sydney. That money goes
Speaker 2: to Ireland. Did Ireland build or did you know Matter
Speaker 2: or Google or pisor build the cables you know that
Speaker 2: connected us to Ireland? No, of course not right. So
Speaker 2: we've got to start taxing profits that go offshore. This
Speaker 2: was the whole reason why.
Speaker 1: So I went.
Speaker 2: So back to my story. When I came home, I
Speaker 2: worked at the Bank of Queensland management account and treasury
Speaker 2: account securitization banking ops. Then worked at Westfield's six years
Speaker 2: in predominantly Treasury. But I did a march David Liddy.
Speaker 2: I didn't know David Liddy, that's right, yep, yep. He
Speaker 2: was big, hairy, awesome gold guy. Yeah yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2: So I used to catch the ferry from Kangaroo Point
Speaker 2: across the river with David a few times as well.
Speaker 2: So he brought in a whole new mainframe, so he
Speaker 2: outsourced the mainframe services. So I worked on that and
Speaker 2: coding all the overnight in tonights into the bank settlements
Speaker 2: and everything like that. Now moved on to managing a
Speaker 2: team of around fifteen in banking ops, including treasury securitization.
Speaker 2: Good experience, yet again it's more bank but really worthwhile anyway.
Speaker 2: So I did a master the finance when I was
Speaker 2: there in the treasury stream, and then when I came
Speaker 2: to Sydney, I worked at Westfield Westfield. Unlike the Bank
Speaker 2: of Queensland which had about five subsidiaries, Westfield had about
Speaker 2: six hundred. And I was like, what's all this all about?
Speaker 2: And I realized it was all to do with tax,
Speaker 2: moving tax around the world and things like that, because
Speaker 2: obviously they had shopping centers in the US and the UK.
Speaker 2: But I did a master's tax law up in Sydney
Speaker 2: University and I was shocked at the number of sections
Speaker 2: in that tax Act that gave tax breaks to foreigners
Speaker 2: over to foreign investment in front of domestic investment. And
Speaker 2: this is killing us. So we can't have it on
Speaker 2: shore tax rate of thirty cents and an offshore tax
Speaker 2: rate depending on tax treaty between zero and fifteen. Because
Speaker 2: everyone is bending over backwards to shift profits offshore. We
Speaker 2: have to stop the leakage of profits offshore. So between
Speaker 2: building more infrastructure to generate more income, increasing taxes on foreigners,
Speaker 2: and cutting some government waste that's easier said than done.
Speaker 2: That's how we want to bring the budget back into
Speaker 2: balance as well as cut taxes for hard working Australians.
Speaker 1: There your policies, LL not call policies, I don't know
Speaker 1: what you call them, the headliners that they're five key policies.
Speaker 1: Let's say people first go to the next election twenty eight.
Speaker 1: We're talking about twenty eight. Can you get people to
Speaker 1: represent your seats? Very seats?
Speaker 2: We won't have any problem fillings are getting center candidate.
Speaker 2: We will show that we will struggle to fill one
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty seats. This is our first time around.
Speaker 2: Well there was themselves last year where we only had
Speaker 2: a standing start of about four months. So what we're
Speaker 2: working on is building our membership. So we're merging with
Speaker 2: the Citizens Party. We're going to get close to seven
Speaker 2: thousand members. I'm talking to a couple of other minor
Speaker 2: parties hopefully if we can bring on them board, we'll
Speaker 2: get to ten thousand members. The Labor Party, as Benjmark,
Speaker 2: has about fifty thousand members nationally. And how all we
Speaker 2: can do is through opportunities like you've great given me
Speaker 2: today and I appreciate it. Is get our word out there,
Speaker 2: talk about our policies through grassroots involvement, so social media,
Speaker 2: going to the markets and talking to people in the
Speaker 2: community about our policies. And we just want to really
Speaker 2: focus on the vision for tomorrow as well as you know,
Speaker 2: obviously we want a solution today, but we want to
Speaker 2: just really want to stress the importance that we do
Speaker 2: live in a great country. We owe it to our
Speaker 2: children to give them the opportunities our forefathers gave to
Speaker 2: us and to be more optimistic. So we do want
Speaker 2: to have a point of difference there in the sense
Speaker 2: that we yeah, well, I mean inevitably sometimes I get
Speaker 2: dragged into the toxic toxicity, you know, sue a pit
Speaker 2: of social media. But we do have solutions and there
Speaker 2: is a way out of the mess that we're in.
Speaker 2: We've just got to go back to basics, and that
Speaker 2: is you know, hard work, believing in family, you know,
Speaker 2: and believing in the community in this great country called Australia.
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny, I was only thing the other
Speaker 1: day when I was a kid growing up. It's interesting
Speaker 1: you should say that because when I was a kid
Speaker 1: running we sort of went like this was in different
Speaker 1: order for different people. But these three elements always included
Speaker 1: everyone's conversation God, family, country or family, country, God or
Speaker 1: whatever the matter, what the priority list was, but it
Speaker 1: was sort of those three things you wanted everybody. That's
Speaker 1: all our values. We all stood for our country, yeah,
Speaker 1: we all stood for our God, whichever god that was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and for our family. Yeah, there are our three main values. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We sort we sight of that a little bit, haven't we. Yeah?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know, I still think the high point of
Speaker 2: our national identity was Bob Hawk in nineteen ninety eight,
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty eight, sorry, at the Opera House, you know,
Speaker 2: and that bi centennial celebrations on the Sydney Harbor. They
Speaker 2: were just magnificent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, straight off for the America's Cup challenge. Yeah seven Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right.
Speaker 2: And Bob Hawk and I don't normally agree with Bob
Speaker 2: Hawk on a lot of things, but he said something
Speaker 2: that I think we should reflect on a lot. He
Speaker 2: said there should be no hierarchy of origin in this country.
Speaker 2: And he's banging on about that it doesn't matter when
Speaker 2: you got here. If you put your first and love
Speaker 2: your country and want a better life for your children.
Speaker 1: That's it. That's it.
Speaker 2: You know, and our founding fathers in Section one sixteen eight,
Speaker 2: they said there is freedom of religion. They did that
Speaker 2: because they did not want religion in politics, and that's
Speaker 2: really really important, you know, our founding fathers. You know,
Speaker 2: the Constitution could do with a few tweaks, but they
Speaker 2: did a very good job in doing that. And I
Speaker 2: don't think people realize that the reason why they put
Speaker 2: that in there is that they believe that religion and
Speaker 2: politics needed to be separate.
Speaker 1: So is people first party? Are you sort of saying
Speaker 1: to us, let's get back to basics. Absolutely, but I
Speaker 1: don't mean they be simple, but just what is fundamentally
Speaker 1: important exactly for us to exist? Yeah, which is your family? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know it's like it's but also a country. Look
Speaker 1: at our country, Look all we've got.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and your country yeah, and we and look
Speaker 2: having you know, spend all that time traveling. We are
Speaker 2: so lucky as a country, and I just sometimes think
Speaker 2: we forget about it and we should not be so
Speaker 2: pessimistic about what we have here and the opportunities we have. Sure,
Speaker 2: we've had a probably rough decade where we've been going
Speaker 2: in the wrong direction. No one denies that, and both
Speaker 2: major parties are the blame for that. But you know,
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean to say we can't turn it around.
Speaker 2: I mean, two hundred years ago, pioneering forefathers were coming
Speaker 2: out here, you know, beating a path through the scrub,
Speaker 2: you know, putting up with snakes, and if you got
Speaker 2: bitten by a snake, you can just go to the hospital.
Speaker 2: I mean, my mum's one of five children. Her three
Speaker 2: brothers all died within one year. So my grandparents, my
Speaker 2: grandmother lost three babies within one year, not sorry, within
Speaker 2: the first year of birth, So you know, I mean,
Speaker 2: it wasn't that long ago that women would lose many
Speaker 2: children in childbirth. So we've come a long way, and
Speaker 2: our forefathers had made so many sacrifices to make this
Speaker 2: country the great country it is. We've just got to
Speaker 2: constantly remind ourselves that we are so lucky and then
Speaker 2: use that to empower us and motivate us to get
Speaker 2: up and do the right things. And it waste time
Speaker 2: on social media if you're time on social media, not
Speaker 2: this social media course, but spending ten ten hours a
Speaker 2: week on social media. Cut it back to eight hours
Speaker 2: and put that two hours into doing something constructive, get
Speaker 2: involved with the political party. And because yet again, the
Speaker 2: combined membership of political parties in this country is around
Speaker 2: two hundred thousand people. Many, not many, it's less than
Speaker 2: my percent of the population. You know, you can't complain
Speaker 2: if the world's run by those you turn up, and
Speaker 2: if you're not going to turn up and get involved, well,
Speaker 2: of course the world's going to go in a direction
Speaker 2: that you don't want it to go because you're not
Speaker 2: doing anything about it to control your own destiny.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's an austraining thing though? Do you
Speaker 1: think we've been so spoilt, not at the moment, but
Speaker 1: we have been so bored over such a long period
Speaker 1: of time. Yeah, absolutely, and we don't feel the need
Speaker 1: to do these things. I think that that has been
Speaker 1: the case. I think that is changing. I definitely think
Speaker 1: it's changing now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but it has been oh for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and especially with that asset boom in the eighties and
Speaker 2: the nineties because we were losing product We were held
Speaker 2: up by the mining boom, for sure. But the mining
Speaker 2: boom has masked a lack of productivity through our manufacturing sector.
Speaker 2: It's allowed the public bureaucracy to blow out and bureaucracy
Speaker 2: not not public servants. So our teachers and our nurses
Speaker 2: and our policemen, there's not enough for them. There's too
Speaker 2: many bureaucrats, so we need to reach reorganize that.
Speaker 1: So maybe you just explained it, because I think that's
Speaker 1: a really important point, and I think we might finish
Speaker 1: off this. But this is a really important point, if
Speaker 1: you don't mind, Joe. People take the view that we
Speaker 1: have a lot of people talk about too many public servants,
Speaker 1: you know, but they don't talk about bureaucracy. Bureaucracy. And
Speaker 1: I'm someone lived in here for a long time and
Speaker 1: I know how bureaucracy works because some Gandhy made sure
Speaker 1: he created this bureaucracy because he needed to give everybody
Speaker 1: a job. Yeah right, yeah, demand how much you're paid,
Speaker 1: but everyone had a job. Yeah, And it was sort
Speaker 1: of bordering on communism, which is sort of where Gandy
Speaker 1: was at, Like, yeah, a country like India is poor,
Speaker 1: you had people had to have a job. Yeah. So yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe you just can explain to people the difference between
Speaker 1: public service, being in the service of the public and
Speaker 1: being in the bureaucracy.
Speaker 2: Different between two two different things. The public serves. So
Speaker 2: our nurses, our teachers. I mean my mom was a nurse.
Speaker 2: You know, my grandmother was a teacher. You know, our military,
Speaker 2: they serve the people. And that word public service is
Speaker 2: run around too much, and you often you know there's
Speaker 2: a sky news does it. Oh, we've got too many
Speaker 2: in public servants. It's too many. It's like no, no, no,
Speaker 2: hang on a minute. Don't go around bashing the front
Speaker 2: end workers. They work really hard, right, But do we
Speaker 2: have too many bureaucrats? Absolutely, And there's the bureaucrats in
Speaker 2: the back off that create your regulation, right, which not
Speaker 2: only is attacks, it's strangles productivity.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: And one of our policies are called to this my
Speaker 2: Maine speech. We've got to have federation convention that looks
Speaker 2: at removing the duplications of roles and responsibilities between federal
Speaker 2: and state governments, and the vertical fiscal ambiguities between state
Speaker 2: and federal governments and the next level down thirty three
Speaker 2: councils in Sydney. Do we need that many?
Speaker 1: Ridiculous?
Speaker 2: It's ridiculous, right, Brisbane City's got four councils, the biggest one,
Speaker 2: Brisbane City Itself's got one point four million pairs works amazingly. Yeah,
Speaker 2: exact same as Gold Coast amazing Yeah, that's right, because
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure there's all inefficiencies in their bureaucracies,
Speaker 2: but at least there's only because we've often had this
Speaker 2: thing on our side of politics, where if you have
Speaker 2: the states competing, you'll get great to competition. But I've
Speaker 2: realized when it comes to bureaucrats, you're actually fighting an
Speaker 2: eight headed hydra, not one like you're better off having
Speaker 2: one level of bureaucracy. Seeable yet very simple and of course,
Speaker 2: ironically enough, the Tasmanian Dam's decision has led to this
Speaker 2: because it basically allowed Bob Hawk to go to the
Speaker 2: High Court and say, we want to stop the Tasmanian
Speaker 2: government for building a dam, not talking Franklin Dam's bidle Damn.
Speaker 2: Maybe it shouldn't have been damned, no argument there. But
Speaker 2: what that means now is every time the state government
Speaker 2: tries to do something, the federal government steps in according
Speaker 2: to some foreign treaty and over and stops the state
Speaker 2: government and doing anything. So we've got this real dysfunctional
Speaker 2: federation at the moment, and we've got to sort that out.
Speaker 1: The bureaucrats create a think called what I call the bureaucracy,
Speaker 1: which is by definition designed to be inefficient, and as
Speaker 1: a result of that, the inefficiency inefficiencies create jobs within
Speaker 1: the bureaucracy for bureaucrats exactly, and it just keeps feeding
Speaker 1: on itself and it becomes it's no one individual's fault.
Speaker 1: It's not the fault of the individual bureaucrat that's in
Speaker 1: the bureaucracy. I mean sometimes it is, but generally speaking
Speaker 1: it's not. It's the fault of the politicians who create
Speaker 1: the bureaucracy, and to some extent currently in our current regime,
Speaker 1: the bureaucracy protects certain politicians.
Speaker 2: And it'll protect itself. You're right, it's a hammer looking.
Speaker 1: They talk about AI one day taking over the world. Well,
Speaker 1: for me, we already have it. It's called a bureaucracy,
Speaker 1: and it's happening in a lot of countries like the
Speaker 1: UK's are got a great example. France is another great example.
Speaker 1: But Australia, the bureaucracy is a major problem for a
Speaker 1: country who's so small. Absolutely in terms of people, we're
Speaker 1: way way too big. And I agree public servants, people
Speaker 1: in the service of public they should get a medal. Yeah, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: And please don't confuse a public servant with aureaucrat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. And the public servant gets paid, No,
Speaker 1: we knew what a bureaucrad gets paid either. There's a
Speaker 1: major disparity between you know, the reward for effort. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's what we would look at, is the bureaucrats. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I've had some exposure to it because I've shared quite
Speaker 1: a few task force for various governments and I have
Speaker 1: to do. The bureaucracy at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: kills off pretty much every innovative idea that I've ever
Speaker 1: come up with. Yeah. Yeah, they risk their risk adverse. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I caught up with some guys in the defense industry
Speaker 2: who are private contractors and they just said, you know,
Speaker 2: they're so frustrated with Australian military because they're so risk
Speaker 2: adverse and by the time they've actually you know, they
Speaker 2: want the proof of you know, concept concept before before
Speaker 2: they adopted prototyping, prototyping all this stuff, and as they
Speaker 2: were saying, by that stage, he's got no money left,
Speaker 2: We've got no money left, or and other countries coming
Speaker 2: up and even more.
Speaker 1: In that, which is why I think about it. I've
Speaker 1: got a I want really approve this, and I thinking
Speaker 1: about that bureaucross. He thinks about what are the reasons
Speaker 1: why I should not approve it, and that it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter whether it's defense or yeah, dams or whatever the
Speaker 1: infrastructure is. Yeah, it's about what are the reasons that
Speaker 1: there's a problem, because if they did it too efficiently,
Speaker 1: they do themselves out of a job. Yeah. Correct, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so feeds on itself. Yeah, exactly. Well, Jared Nick, I
Speaker 1: really want to thank you very much for your introduction
Speaker 1: to me, at least of the People First Party. I
Speaker 1: think it's amazing.
Speaker 2: We'll have a name change so too. By the way,
Speaker 2: it's going to be People's Party. I had Heritage Bank,
Speaker 2: you know Heritage You change their bank name to people First,
Speaker 2: and they've sued me copyright. Yeah, and as I said
Speaker 2: to the judge, I said, I don't have a license
Speaker 2: from APRA for showing potential regulation authority. This is a
Speaker 2: question of fact. But you let it go to trial.
Speaker 2: It was going to do it for three days and
Speaker 2: I was like, well, I don't like to look at
Speaker 2: these I'm.
Speaker 1: Just going to People's Party. Yeah, I should. I don't
Speaker 1: mind that People's Party. Yeah, Australia People's Party. It'll be
Speaker 1: slightly easier. Yeah, call theirselves people's party. You know it'll
Speaker 1: be abbreviged to that. But but yeah, but thanks for
Speaker 1: having me on, Mark. I look for fortunity. I look
Speaker 1: forward to it making some innroads in the twenty out
Speaker 1: election made cheers. Thanks, Mark, appreciate it.