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Speaker 1: Andrew so Quist. Welcome to the mentor, Mate, Thanks mate,

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Speaker 1: Founder and CEO of win d C. Usually when it's

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Speaker 1: got DC afternoon after the name, it is a sense

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Speaker 1: of data centers for anyone who needs to know.

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Speaker 2: Is that right?

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Speaker 1: And when I presume is that's just something you want

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Speaker 1: to achieve.

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Speaker 2: We do. But it also comes off the back of

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Speaker 2: wind Turblines.

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Speaker 1: Wind W and D. I didn't get it, Sorry about that,

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Speaker 1: so it's no double do one d wind d C.

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Speaker 1: So big topic like this huge topic around the world.

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Speaker 1: Obviously AI had driven much bigger topic today than it

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Speaker 1: ever has been, the future of data centers, future of

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Speaker 1: energy in Australia, future water, water is important and geopolitical

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Speaker 1: issues are probably an issue, probably more so now than

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Speaker 1: they were a week ago or two weeks ago. So

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Speaker 1: maybe just quickly tell me a little bit about yourself

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Speaker 1: and what wind d C does and where you guys

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Speaker 1: are located.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, so, my name's ANDREWS. Shoquist, as we already established,

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Speaker 2: but I found a technology services company called AC about

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Speaker 2: twenty five years ago fifteen years ago would develop a

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Speaker 2: specialty in renewable energy critical infrastructure assets and then over

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Speaker 2: that period of time we've now grown that to deliver

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Speaker 2: services to about twenty percent of all renewable energy assets

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Speaker 2: in Australia.

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Speaker 1: So what does that mean services to renewable assets.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we provide the connectivity and cybersecurity services to

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Speaker 2: keep those assets secure.

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Speaker 1: So give me an example of an example what an

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Speaker 1: asset would be.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and as would be like a wind farm or

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Speaker 2: a solar farm or a battery and so they are

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Speaker 2: running twenty four hours a day. They're critical components of

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Speaker 2: the electricity system and we have to make sure that

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Speaker 2: they're connected so they can be contacted and managed. Were

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Speaker 2: join cables, fiber optic cables and also cybersecurity services that

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Speaker 2: go at the top of that to make sure that

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Speaker 2: there's no bad actors or untoward activity happening against those assets.

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Speaker 1: Against the assets, you mean, the bundle of the cables

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Speaker 1: themselves with some sort of conjurit over that that's actually

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Speaker 1: delivering the power that's been generated. Is that what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about. We're talking about the powers being generated from

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Speaker 1: less Solifar for example, So.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Solofar for example has two key things. That's got

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Speaker 2: a high bassage transmission cable. It's a big copper cable

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Speaker 2: that runs out of there for the electrons to flow on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Second thing that it often has is a fiber optic

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Speaker 2: cable for data signals to flow on.

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Speaker 1: Ah Okay, So in other words, to maybe move the

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Speaker 1: solar panels around or to turn them on turn them.

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Speaker 2: Off for correct power.

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Speaker 1: It's basically instructions in and out correct. Yeah. So something

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Speaker 1: might be no good that comes through the fire propic

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Speaker 1: table caple goes back to the administration, could be in

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Speaker 1: Turkey for some reason, and they're going to be saying,

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Speaker 1: oh shit, like we're not receiving enough sunlight or something's

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Speaker 1: going wrong.

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Speaker 2: That's right. So generally that'll be managed by or excessed

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Speaker 2: by an EMO or the owners of the asset trail

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Speaker 2: and energy market operator, and they're controlling which generators generating power,

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Speaker 2: who's using the power, just to keep the whole power

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Speaker 2: grid stable.

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Speaker 1: So you've got two parts.

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Speaker 2: You got.

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Speaker 1: What you guys are doing is you're looking at the

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Speaker 1: cables that transmit well let's call it cop worrying that

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Speaker 1: transmits the power that's been generated called it generated through

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Speaker 1: whatever the system is. And then there's the fiber optic cable,

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Speaker 1: which I know it runs underneath the above all somehow

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Speaker 1: close by. Maybe can't be too close by, but because

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Speaker 1: I presume it can't because electromagnetic fields would interfere with

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Speaker 1: the fire broke to cable.

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Speaker 2: No, you're okay, because light there's no coporative.

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, So no, I meant near the copper cable.

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Speaker 2: Because it's not as light, so that doesn't have any

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Speaker 2: electromagnetic in Okay.

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Speaker 1: Well, okay, that's and that's that's sending information and out

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Speaker 1: or passing information and out as to how the device

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Speaker 1: works and the redoubts and stuff like that. So that

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Speaker 1: was what you were doing. So how does that fit

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Speaker 1: into data centers?

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Speaker 2: And so we've been in that space for about fifteen years.

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Speaker 2: About ten years ago, we were working with a customer

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Speaker 2: who had a new wind farm and they were trying

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Speaker 2: to connect to the energy system, but there was some

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Speaker 2: constraint in the energy system which would only allow them

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Speaker 2: to connect it half the amount of energy output that

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Speaker 2: they were hoping to connect.

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Speaker 1: It, so it would only receive half the energy that

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Speaker 1: they could generate, but generate.

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Speaker 2: That's right. And so at that point in time we

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Speaker 2: said to them, would it be interesting to be brought

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Speaker 2: to you a large load.

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Speaker 1: So as someone who has a demand for the extra energy,

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Speaker 1: you can't transmit.

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Speaker 2: That's it and put that behind your meter so inside

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Speaker 2: of their supremittive fence, and then use the power directly,

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Speaker 2: which means that we don't need to worry about the constraint.

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Speaker 1: Right. Well, there's no wastage, no waste basic. So in

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Speaker 1: other words, let's say they're generating a thousand, the current

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Speaker 1: system that they were feeding into can only take five

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Speaker 1: hundred foot of the reason is there's five hundred being

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Speaker 1: wasted as inefficient, I guess. And what you've done you

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Speaker 1: were set as can we bring in something that requires

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Speaker 1: five hundred close by exactly? So you decentralized data centers

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Speaker 1: out of big data centers, and you put it very

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Speaker 1: close to the source of power.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So the term that's been coined out as an

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Speaker 2: edge data center.

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Speaker 1: Edge edge data on the edge of the power. That's

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Speaker 1: I think wherever the generation of that power is coming from. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's cool. So what you did you you facilitated this

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Speaker 1: or did you build the data center?

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Speaker 2: So we've basically modularized it and made it portable. So

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Speaker 2: one of the things we wanted to do was challenge

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Speaker 2: the somewhat of a misconception or the I guess the

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Speaker 2: modus operandi of the industry, which was the very first

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Speaker 2: thing you've got to do is buy a lot of

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Speaker 2: land next to a.

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Speaker 1: Congress lab and then build a fixed building. And the

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Speaker 1: level of the normal sens of dollars, Yeah, very expensive,

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Speaker 1: very expensive.

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Speaker 2: And so the reality there was that we thought we

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Speaker 2: could challenge that assumption and perhaps go with a model

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Speaker 2: where you don't have to start with that approach. And

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Speaker 2: so at the same time, as we were operating in

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Speaker 2: the data center space with AARC twenty five years and

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Speaker 2: we've already been fifteen years into it by that point,

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Speaker 2: we then saw this constraint arise where the energy couldn't

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Speaker 2: be used. We put those two things together and a

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Speaker 2: bit of later all thinking and so maybe we could

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Speaker 2: compare the two together. And so data centers at that

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Speaker 2: point they weren't as power hungry as they are now.

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Speaker 2: But we're already seeing at that point in time the

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Speaker 2: start of that constraint rising. So we knew that they

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Speaker 2: were growing. We knew that data centers were becoming more hungry.

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Speaker 1: Could I just stop there for seking, because that's important

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Speaker 1: point when you say data centers weren't as power hungry

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Speaker 1: or didn't have the greater demand for power. Is the

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Speaker 1: reason why they are now is because you've got more

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Speaker 1: servers and or racks in the data center or is

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Speaker 1: it the racks and services you currently have in a

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Speaker 1: normal data center are generating more heat, that's right, is

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Speaker 1: increasing the densities increase And is that because the servers

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Speaker 1: are looking at a lot more data than they've ever

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Speaker 1: had in the past.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're doing different operations. So this is where

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Speaker 2: their rise of like endvideo. So the microchips that they

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Speaker 2: make are much more power hungry, so they're designed to

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Speaker 2: do bigger, more complex calculations that need more power, and

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Speaker 2: so by putting more of them into a rack, you're

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Speaker 2: increasing the density of the rack.

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Speaker 1: And we just should explain what I mean by a

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Speaker 1: rack and what you re mean by a wreck. So

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the cage, the steel cage that fits

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Speaker 1: the service in each shelf, for example, basically, and that's

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Speaker 1: called a rack. And we should also say that this

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Speaker 1: I think is important anyway. You know, when we're talking

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Speaker 1: about the cloud, there's no such thing as a cloud.

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Speaker 1: I mean basically, what it is that's we used to

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Speaker 1: have the service in our office, maybe under the desk

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Speaker 1: or in a comm's room or something. They've all been,

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Speaker 1: not all them, but largely most people who now send

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Speaker 1: this data to a cloud which ends up in it

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Speaker 1: doesn't got it, but it ends up into a data

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Speaker 1: center where there's commingling or there's someone has the whole joint,

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Speaker 1: but it's probably rare, but they have these racks, or

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Speaker 1: your data would be sitting in your server, in your rack,

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Speaker 1: which might be next to order to Telstra as one

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Speaker 1: for argument's.

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Speaker 2: Sake, so giant hotel for computers. Yeah, look at it, and.

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Speaker 1: I think just a paint a picture too. I think

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Speaker 1: is important because most people have been inside of data

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Speaker 1: is under Like the reason that power hungry is because

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Speaker 1: it's very hot in there if you don't have massive

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Speaker 1: air conditioning systems twenty four to seven and you know,

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Speaker 1: and lots of sensing systems to make sure that the

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Speaker 1: air conditioning it's cool enough. And then of course you've

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Speaker 1: got the power that's actually inside the servers and inside

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Speaker 1: all lighting. Some everyth is power everywhere. Everything is power hungry.

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Speaker 2: Right, and so you end up with the radio chips

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Speaker 2: is a good example, that chip the size of your

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Speaker 2: palm would consume as much power as your house.

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Speaker 1: Wow, because there's so much more powerful as a circuit.

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Speaker 2: That's right, much more complex. And then, like you said,

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Speaker 2: all the extra ancillary services that go without to keep

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Speaker 2: it cool it super important.

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Speaker 1: And the main reason of that is if it gets

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Speaker 1: in there, it will corrupt the data.

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Speaker 2: That's right, I will corrupt data. And then electrical systems

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Speaker 2: don't work well underheat. You'll start to get things literally melting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, things things fail, yeah, basically.

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Speaker 2: And that's only getting it more more dense. So we've

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Speaker 2: gone from say, fifteen years ago, your average rack was

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Speaker 2: about two to three killer what's worth.

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Speaker 1: Of power, which is a small house.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, small house may be a little bit bigger. And

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Speaker 2: then now we're seeing the reference architecture from Envideo is

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Speaker 2: hitting one hundred and fifty kilos perak per rack well,

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Speaker 2: and then the next generation that's coming into a year

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Speaker 2: to two years time is six hundred killer what's per rack.

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Speaker 2: And then there is few to a line of sight

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Speaker 2: to one thousand killos a megawatt per rack.

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Speaker 1: And you may all give us a bit of a

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Speaker 1: sense because I've been in these but it's given a

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Speaker 1: bit of a sense as to how many racks might

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Speaker 1: be sitting in a big data center like an AWS

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Speaker 1: one up in Queensland or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's interesting the number of racks is actually

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Speaker 2: decreasing to some degree because the density is increased, right,

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Speaker 2: and so some of the the more traditional ones you'll

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Speaker 2: see around they're probably up to twenty thousand racks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so they'll be to talk about a football field plus.

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Speaker 2: Multiple Some of the bigger ones in Western Sydney planned

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Speaker 2: a fifty two football field. Yeah, they're huge, huge, and

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Speaker 2: so that's changing. The footrit's getting smaller, which then obviously

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Speaker 2: helped us because we're making things more modular and portable.

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Speaker 2: Means that we can actually get more capacity into a

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Speaker 2: smaller footprint, which made the modular possibility reality.

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Speaker 1: Do you mind just touching on water, the important water.

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Speaker 1: We took an air on system, so that requires water.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, water is huge, so we out when you ce

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Speaker 2: have a waterless system, So we're closed loop a water

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Speaker 2: less waterless systems, so we don't hook up to water.

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Speaker 1: How do you solve the eck on issue then?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So basically we use a closed loop liquid cooling solution.

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Speaker 2: Pretty much the same as the radiator in your car. Right,

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Speaker 2: So there's actually a pipe that runs across the chip,

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Speaker 2: takes the heat into the liquid, puts it out into

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Speaker 2: a radiator outside and to circulates that.

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Speaker 1: Right, Okay, because in other words, it's everything's recirculated basically. Okay,

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Speaker 1: now I get it. So just for those people listening

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Speaker 1: to this, so just to consider, you know, having something

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Speaker 1: fifty football fields big, sitting on concrete slabs with massive

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Speaker 1: walls and massive ceilings. One of the things that's pretty

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Speaker 1: obvious and I know it next to you. C did

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Speaker 1: this down in Melbourne years ago. But is solar panels

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Speaker 1: on top of the roof, because I mean you got

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Speaker 1: or at least on the northeast side of the roof.

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Speaker 1: Has that been out to solve any of the problems, but.

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Speaker 2: A solve a little bit of the problem. The problem

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Speaker 2: with solar panels in the small amount of space that's there,

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Speaker 2: it will give you maybe a few hundred killers. Maybe

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Speaker 2: Wat's right, but in the scheme of things, it's it's

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Speaker 2: just clipping around the edges basically.

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Speaker 1: Right. So therefore you're saying it's important to get a

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Speaker 1: source of reliable energy, and you've now worked out how

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Speaker 1: to maybe you can explain how these modular are they

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Speaker 1: wheels modular systems.

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Speaker 2: They like the shape of a shipping container. So we

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Speaker 2: lift them onto the back of a truck, which is

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Speaker 2: the wheels, and then we take them where they need

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Speaker 2: to go, and we take them off and they sit

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Speaker 2: on the.

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Speaker 1: Sit on a plinth or something. Do you put them

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Speaker 1: on a platform?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Correct, Yeah, get off the ground, keep the dirt

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Speaker 2: in the dust out. But yeah, that I have Will's apparently.

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Speaker 1: How are you going to engineer this the thought the

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Speaker 1: process of that thought process?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question. So I think there's a

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Speaker 2: little bit of sort of lateral thinking here. I'm a

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Speaker 2: big fan of Debono's works and so I've read over

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Speaker 2: the years just various tippits from him. And so when

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Speaker 2: you think about the problem that's there, writing that problem

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Speaker 2: down and then this is your process. So this is

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Speaker 2: the process. Yeah, so writing that problem down to think

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Speaker 2: through the process and get it into the mind, into

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Speaker 2: the cognition system. Yea.

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Speaker 1: And so maybe you could explain what de bono means.

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Speaker 1: But the power of writing things down, like do you

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Speaker 1: remember the way? So that's so powerful?

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Speaker 2: No, well, it.

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Speaker 1: Is because it's the learning process, the cognition process of learning,

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Speaker 1: the brain's cognition process. Learning is most efficient, efficient and

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Speaker 1: effective when two things three things happen. One it doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean this is not the only way you do, but

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Speaker 1: this is the most This is the optimal way to

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Speaker 1: learn about something. One a hero or see it. In

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Speaker 1: other words, you hear the problem or see the problem.

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Speaker 1: Two you then make with your hand, not not type it,

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Speaker 1: not putting your phone or your laptop or whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: but actually write it out in writing up on a

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Speaker 1: white board like you have. Then Third, the most this

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Speaker 1: is probably the most important part of the part of

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Speaker 1: the people forget about, is you prosecute it. You teach it.

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Speaker 1: So you talk about it. So you go, here's the problem.

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Speaker 1: You hear the problem, you talk about the problem, you

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Speaker 1: write up on your whiteboard, and you have your team.

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Speaker 1: Then you start to teach it, and you prosecute over

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Speaker 1: a period of time, which means you're refined. You refine

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Speaker 1: the issue and the solution yourself for us ten years.

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Speaker 1: But that's that's really powerful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And also so you can identify the components of well,

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Speaker 2: so that's the thing is about reversing some of the

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Speaker 2: simple assumptions.

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Speaker 1: Well, because your brain, you think you got it in

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Speaker 1: your head, but until you have to reduce it to writing,

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Speaker 1: you don't have it. You go, shit, hang on, it's

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Speaker 1: not that easy. Yeah, So sorry to interrupt it. I

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Speaker 1: think that's a really important thing though. I just wanted to,

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Speaker 1: especially when you said the DeBono, because I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to clear that up for the audience. Anyway, So you

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Speaker 1: wrote it down, you talk to your team about.

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Speaker 2: It, talk to a team about it, talk to other

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Speaker 2: people about it. So in the industry we come across

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Speaker 2: a lot of different opinions, and particularly energy, it's one

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Speaker 2: that's been a little bit divided over recent years. And

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Speaker 2: so this difference of opinion and if we could reconcile

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Speaker 2: down the problem, which we did and then really understand

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Speaker 2: everyone's viewpoint, it kind of guided us to connecting some dots.

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Speaker 2: And so the dots were, on the one hand, we

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Speaker 2: had an energy system that was starting to show constraint.

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Speaker 2: On the other hand, we had a data center industry

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Speaker 2: that was growing, and so you match match them together.

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Speaker 1: It's very interesting because one of the constraints that people

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Speaker 1: have been talking about in relation to it's called green

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Speaker 1: energy or distributed energy is the problem of getting it

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Speaker 1: back to where we need it because the cost of transmission.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the issues. And of course probably you've

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Speaker 1: just highlighted something really important. It's not just building the

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Speaker 1: transmission lines, but it's also there will be points nodes

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Speaker 1: where he can't take the amount of stuff that you're

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Speaker 1: trying to send into it. So therefore there's some like

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Speaker 1: an inbuilt inefficiency or an embedded inefficiency, and therefore bringing

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Speaker 1: the demand for the energy to that spot actually is

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Speaker 1: very efficient because you're cutting out a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: transmission costs, which is copper and is expensive, and it

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Speaker 1: takes time and approval issues. You got to go through

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Speaker 1: someone's farm or whatever the case may be. And that

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Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. So I'd love to know

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Speaker 1: a little bit more about the construction of this. Said

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Speaker 1: I think you said shipping container or something like a

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Speaker 1: shipping content or is it a shipping contain.

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Speaker 2: It's not a shipping container, but it's taken the form

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Speaker 2: of a shipping container. Yeah, So the reason for that

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Speaker 2: we work with a partner to help us construct and

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Speaker 2: design these who during that process we had an oversized unit.

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Speaker 2: So there's modular data centers have been around for a while,

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Speaker 2: but one of the challenges with them is really you'd

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Speaker 2: moved them once and then you wouldn't move them again.

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Speaker 2: So I think of a portable house. You might slit

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Speaker 2: the house in half every month. And these have been

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Speaker 2: used in mining and other industries. We wanted to get

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Speaker 2: into a shipping container format so that ISO container format,

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Speaker 2: which has developed in the fifties for global shipping, so

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Speaker 2: that we could move them around and that meant that

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Speaker 2: these assets wouldn't potentially become white elephants because if the

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Speaker 2: opportunity or the advantage disappeared, would just come along with

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Speaker 2: a truck and pick them up and move them to

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Speaker 2: where the problem is just somewhere else.

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Speaker 1: So you just get a forll cliff, put them on

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Speaker 1: a truck and weight constraints. They're about twenty five tons, right,

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Speaker 1: that's fine enough. And and then how many racks would

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Speaker 1: you be able to get into one of these.

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Speaker 2: So we've got a first generation unit that's arrived in

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Speaker 2: Australia in the last month that a fits five racks,

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Speaker 2: but they're high their moderate density of racks that these

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Speaker 2: racks will do twenty killer wats per rack. So that's

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Speaker 2: about one hundred killer wats. We have other units that

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Speaker 2: are on the way that we're manufacturing, which are two

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Speaker 2: megawatt unit across about twelve racks. So that's the mater

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Speaker 2: of reference architecture from in video.

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Speaker 1: Just just give us some context. So twenty killer what's

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Speaker 1: relative to two megawats? What are we looking at?

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Speaker 2: One hundred times?

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Speaker 1: Hundred times? Okay, so that's important.

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Speaker 2: Twenty kilots per rack, per rack, and so all up,

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Speaker 2: it's one hundred killers all right, so twenty times one hundred.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, are they able to be connected? So you can

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Speaker 1: just put another lot, another lot and just keep building

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Speaker 1: them up.

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Speaker 2: Let's it stuck them together. This field on top of

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Speaker 2: each other or next to each other is better.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, you've probably got space anyway, it's not like

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Speaker 1: you're in the middle of the city or something. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you've got space and that and what sort of fabrication

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Speaker 1: are we doing about here?

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Speaker 2: So they've fabricated like a shipping container but on steel

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Speaker 2: steal Yeah yeah, but on the inside you've got a sleeve.

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Speaker 2: So there's a whole lot of shock absorption in the

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Speaker 2: in the walls.

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Speaker 1: Because there is movements, slow movement in the racks.

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Speaker 2: Movements in the racks, but also when we can transport

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Speaker 2: them full as well. So we've got to pre stage

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Speaker 2: them like in the city.

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Speaker 1: Right, Okay, they're they're already packed up ready to go.

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Speaker 2: Literally take them off the truck, plug them into the

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Speaker 2: power and off they go. So inside it's fully self contained.

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Speaker 2: So you've got redundant chillers, air conditioning units, you've got

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Speaker 2: UPS's for power back up, you've got the racks themselves,

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Speaker 2: of course, and then all your other building systems, like

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Speaker 2: you're building management systems fire systems.

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Speaker 1: What about let's call it management systems. Do you have

398
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Speaker 1: to get into the fire property cable because like if

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Speaker 1: you want to watch your racks, like let's say I'm

400
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Speaker 1: in one of these distributed systems and is it a

401
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Speaker 1: wager or something like that near a wind farm or something,

402
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Speaker 1: and but I'm in Sydney, and I want to monitor

403
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Speaker 1: the security in my rack cameras because like leasings have

404
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Speaker 1: cameras everywhere. Make sure that the blokening stor isn't Juliu

405
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Speaker 1: signs trying to log into my my my rack, which

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Speaker 1: is that's how it happened. That's exactly what happened by

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Speaker 1: the way, he got into some racks which weren't being

408
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Speaker 1: probably monitored. And we're not him, but like his team did.

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Speaker 1: And and I want to look at that on my

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Speaker 1: my laptop. What it is? How does it work? How's

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Speaker 1: the cabling? Do I do you log into Somehow do

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Speaker 1: I use the fiber optic cables that's at that center?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is it's all. It's an objection to

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Speaker 2: that we get around the won't bit of connectivity available?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's That's what I'm worried about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thinking about And so it's not just the monitoring connectivity,

417
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Speaker 2: it's also the how do you actually move the data,

418
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Speaker 2: the big data in and out of these Yes, our

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Speaker 2: answer to that is the fiber optic cables. And we've

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Speaker 2: got plenty of them in Australia. We've got plenty of

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Speaker 2: good fiber systems, both terrestrially.

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Speaker 1: Do they naturally go into the wind farm for example, or.

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Speaker 2: Some of them do have it, which is part of

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Speaker 2: the energy system. So they have what's called a OPGW

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Speaker 2: fiber cable that goes on those big high balsa transmission

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Speaker 2: wise you see them down the side of the road.

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Speaker 2: The very two top ones are actually fiber cables, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and so there's that from the energy transmission guys. And

429
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Speaker 2: then you've also got in ground, which is your Telstra,

430
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Speaker 2: is your focuses. And then more recently you've got companies

431
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Speaker 2: like Subco, which is Devon Slattery's company, Devon who has

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Speaker 2: put the submarine cable systems out of in the ocean, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide.

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Speaker 1: DM. Did you end up completing that?

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Speaker 2: It's I think it's just come ashore in Adelaide. It's

435
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Speaker 2: almost finished.

436
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Speaker 1: From Singapore, is something that's coming.

437
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Speaker 2: From Aman, Well, that's been life for about two years. Well,

438
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Speaker 2: and then he's always got.

439
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 1: A massive project, Yeah, something coming along the way ahead

440
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 1: of himself. So we should get him on the show actually,

441
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 1: but he'd be good. I'm seen him for a couple

442
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,640
Speaker 1: of years. But so just so you can pretty much,

443
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 1: I think what you're saying is that everything that you

444
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 1: can do inside a data center that's I don't know,

445
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 1: Brisbane or something, or at West hen and Sydney, you

446
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 1: can do in one of these distributed data centers on

447
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: a in the modular system sort of sitting up on

448
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 1: a plinth somewhere next door to a wind farm or

449
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: a solo farm or whatever it is.

450
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,679
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Well, the reason why the data centers are

451
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 2: in the metro area is this is a bit of

452
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 2: a historical thing. Where as energy started to become constrained

453
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,959
Speaker 2: as people started moving their computer rooms out of their

454
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 2: offices into these data centers. The first thing was the

455
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,640
Speaker 2: enterprise wanted to be able to see it and touch it. Yeah,

456
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,479
Speaker 2: it's across town. Just want to go and then I'll

457
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 2: huge in.

458
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 1: The maintenance is an issue to Yeah, you know, like

459
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 1: she appens on a server and you get a notification,

460
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 1: You've got to be able to go out and go

461
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 1: to get a mechanic out that will fix.

462
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 2: It, to touch it. Yeah, and then you have, probably

463
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 2: late teens, you have the rise of the cloud. Everyone

464
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 2: started moving the workloads from these cyber facilities into the

465
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 2: cloud that was still in.

466
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:20,199
Speaker 1: One of these data centers.

467
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 2: The cloud, it's probably just the next rack we'll down

468
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 2: the road. But then everyone started realizing, well, I actually

469
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 2: don't care where this infrastructure lives or where.

470
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 1: It comes from me anywhere in the world.

471
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 2: It's as long as it meets within certain criteria, it's okay.

472
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 2: And so that also helped out thinking to say, well,

473
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 2: if it's in Sydney or if it's in Dubbo, provided

474
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 2: I can connect to it, who cares.

475
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,439
Speaker 1: And I can see it, It doesn't matter. And as

476
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 1: long as you have some sort of service, so do

477
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: you guys provide that the maintenance services and all that.

478
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 2: Stuff correct, So have smart hands that can do.

479
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: I can ring you over say listen, mate, is something

480
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: will work or I need to replace a server or

481
00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 1: something like that, and I access it through the services agreement.

482
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 2: That's right, we can we can do that for you.

483
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: Can you talk about so recently? Of course some you know,

484
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: one of the big places these have been getting set up,

485
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: which always sort of surprised me in terms of water.

486
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 1: But I guess you sort of answered the question. But

487
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 1: is in some of these UAE countries And of course

488
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: you know, like if I'm Iran, I'm going to bomb

489
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,360
Speaker 1: the ship out of them, and I would because I'll

490
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: be sending a drone in. And that's what's happening, because

491
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, for a whole lot of reasons. But

492
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:38,120
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, it's remote data center locations graphically

493
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: start starting to look a bit better, and Australia is

494
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 1: about as remote as you're going to get. Maybe New

495
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: Zealand's a bit more remote, but Australia of a sudden

496
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 1: has an advantage, a massive geopolitical.

497
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 2: Advantage indeed, and geopolitical and energy advantage. So this energy

498
00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 2: problem that we're saying alternive energy advantage. Yeah. So if

499
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 2: you look at the size of the energy problem at

500
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 2: the moment, the biggest constraint is the grid. So how

501
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 2: to get it from A to B from generation to consumption.

502
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 2: If you actually look at how much energy is being

503
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 2: generated and wasted, it's over seven point two terror what

504
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 2: hours every year.

505
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 1: Give me a sense of how much that is.

506
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 2: That is all the data centers in Australia doubled each

507
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 2: year consumption. Right, So add all the data stents together

508
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 2: and double their consumption and that's how much power is wasted.

509
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 2: Wow wow, Yeah, it's two million houses.

510
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: And so and that's but that's not wasted through coal

511
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: fire power stations that you're talking about.

512
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 2: It's generated and it can't go anywhere, it's not nowhere

513
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 2: to go.

514
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: But it's not generated out of cold fire power stations,

515
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: generated out of some other alternative system like.

516
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: This is just renewable energy.

517
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: Just renewable energy, So it's coming from a wind farm

518
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: or a solo arm or something like that. And is

519
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 1: that because the grid and all the connections of the

520
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: grid it can't take the amount stuff.

521
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 2: That's right, there's a couple of reasons. The cake grid,

522
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 2: the capacity, but then also the demand. So if you

523
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 2: look at what's happened with solar panels on residential rooftops,

524
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,199
Speaker 2: that's now one of the biggest generators of electricity in

525
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 2: the country. People's houses that used to be the demand

526
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 2: in the middle of the day, So now they don't

527
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 2: have a demand, You've still got the supply happening. You've

528
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 2: got a glut of capacity, and that's what we're targeting.

529
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: Which is why people have again decentralized. They put batteries

530
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: in their own home and mozzle collected current and use

531
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 1: it later.

532
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 2: But the challenge with the batteries may well be in

533
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 2: the future that that'll kind of flatten out the volatility.

534
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 2: But the challenge will be that the utility scale batteries

535
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 2: rely upon the volatility to meet their forecasting models, right,

536
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 2: and so the volatility disappears because more people have batteries,

537
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 2: you may well end up back in the same situation.

538
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: So and so you solve the water says that you

539
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: solved the water piece pretty easily. So what are the

540
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: constraints about where you can and can't go?

541
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 2: Then for us, it's really about the connect to. It

542
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 2: is the key one making sure that we can get

543
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 2: access to or remotely to these locations. So we want

544
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 2: to have some diversity in.

545
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: The approach animue access.

546
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 2: What do you mean connect fiber connectivity access. We want

547
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 2: to have two different.

548
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: Parts connectivity connectivity back to the client or back to

549
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: the great Internet, back to the system, back to the system.

550
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we want to be able to connect ya

551
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 2: the fiber optic cables that exists, that already exists in

552
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 2: different directions, so that we have diversity in case one

553
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 2: of them gets broken.

554
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: So that means, you know, maybe you get help me

555
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 1: out here. But for every ten sources of generated power,

556
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: there might be five don't have that connectivity.

557
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 2: Correct, But we can also dig that connectivity in so

558
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 2: to give you some sort of scale on the cost

559
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 2: of doing that compared to transmission, So your transmission cables

560
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 2: to build more high voltage cable systems is about one

561
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 2: hundred times the cost a billion of fiveer optic cables why.

562
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: Don't they just lay the fiber optic when they laying

563
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: the copper. I mean, why did they do it the same.

564
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 2: Thing they do now?

565
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: But they do now? They do now, and what was

566
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 1: the reason they didn't do it before?

567
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 2: Because what's happened in the grid over the last twenty

568
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: five years is that if you think back to like

569
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 2: two thousand, there was only about a dozen cold generators

570
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,719
Speaker 2: in the country, so you didn't have these problems because

571
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: you didn't really need to communicate to them. You still

572
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 2: need to connect to substations to some degree. But now

573
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 2: what's happened with the renewables you distributed the generation. You've

574
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 2: got over a thousand locations where powers generated. You have

575
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 2: a communications coordination requirement which you didn't really have before.

576
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: It's sort of like blockchains a little bit they come.

577
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: It's sort of do risks things a bit in that

578
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: your Like, for example, if you've got fifty footy fields

579
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 1: with a whole lot of data being stored in that

580
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: particular and process in the particular center. If I'm trying

581
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: to do risk, one of the risks could be that

582
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: you know, something happens, terrorists or whatever comes and tries it.

583
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: Someone tries to vomit. One way do risking a bit

584
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: like the way you can de risk your information is

585
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 1: to distribute it amongst lots of ledgers. So what you're

586
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: doing is you're sort of distributing it into smaller pieces,

587
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: not just as efficient. Well it's the same, you know,

588
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter, but which means you've got you know,

589
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 1: if you want to hurt me, you've got to get

590
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 1: to all my locations or I'm going to be able

591
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: to preserve some of my data because it's less likely

592
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: you can get to all my locations as a risk.

593
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: As a risk, it's not necessarily saying we're going to

594
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: get attacked or I'm not suggesting that, but but it

595
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: is in terms of funding, which you know, you guys

596
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: have to raise money and stuff like that. That's an important

597
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: factor from investor's point of view.

598
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 2: Correct Absolutely de risking, de risking, and it's also about

599
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 2: it wouldn't necessarily be catastrophic as terrorists. We could be

600
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 2: as simple as fire fire power access. What happens if

601
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 2: you can't actually get the energy that you're planning to

602
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 2: get because the grid's not there or.

603
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so what happens if there's no win. What's

604
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: your redundancy?

605
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, good questions.

606
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: So, well, no, none of sun or something I don't know. Yeah.

607
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 2: So those wind and solar generators that work on what's

608
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: called a capacity factor, and so your solo assets work

609
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 2: at about a twenty five percent capacity factor, which means

610
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 2: they generate twenty five percent at the time your wind

611
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 2: assets are about.

612
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: It that you make that assumption, there's an assumption in

613
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: that regard. You make the assumption that for twenty five

614
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: percent of the time it's going to be collecting.

615
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 2: That's actual beta.

616
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: That's actually as Actually that's actually just sevent five percent

617
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: of time suns down over us rain.

618
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then wins about forty percent. It varies sight

619
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 2: to site because of how close you are the equator,

620
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 2: how wind it is, all that type of stuff. But

621
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: that's we work on those between twenty five and forty percent. Now,

622
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 2: everyone says, oh, but data centers have to have one

623
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: hundred percent uptime and the valuability, and that is true.

624
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: But data and there don't need one hundred percent of

625
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 2: their power one hundred percent at the time. They need

626
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 2: some power undred percent of the time, but not all

627
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 2: of that.

628
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: So can you store some can you.

629
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 2: Either storing it and on site batteries. There is an

630
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 2: ability to draw back from the grid if we really

631
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 2: need to. But then there's another approach that we're taking,

632
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 2: which is to schedule the loads. So in Australia there's

633
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 2: been a lot of focus on generation, how do we

634
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 2: build more generation rather than how do we better utilize

635
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 2: the generation that we already have, And so there's a

636
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: there's the other side of the corn which is called

637
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 2: demand response, and so how do you manage the demand

638
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 2: so that it's used at the best time of the day,

639
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 2: for example, to try to.

640
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: Get it done while it is when you it is

641
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: sunny as opposed night.

642
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 2: Time and when people don't need the power. So if

643
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 2: you're in Metro Melbourne between about two pm and eight pm,

644
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 2: everyone's coming home, turned the hairs on, turn the air

645
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: conditions on. It's pretty congested on that grid. So if

646
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 2: we look at the amount of utilization that an AI factory,

647
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 2: so where these data centers are with huge demand for

648
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 2: compute and the energy that they need, the utilization is

649
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 2: only about forty to fifty percent at best case. Now,

650
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 2: if you can align that to the amount of time

651
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 2: the day where you don't have users needing the peak power.

652
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 2: Then you'll still get the same outcome at the end

653
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 2: of the day, but you haven't had to try and

654
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 2: run these things right during the peak period, and so

655
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 2: as a result, you can start to flatten out the

656
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 2: volatility in a wastage because you're not having to You're

657
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 2: not having to keep building for these peak demands where

658
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 2: you've stacked to user demand or human demand with AI demand,

659
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 2: and now you're building these extra large transmission networks and

660
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 2: generation networks which then outside of those periods have a

661
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 2: massive LULP and aren't getting any revenue return on them.

662
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 2: So there's an exercise here that we're working on, how

663
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 2: do we flatten out the demand? And AI workloads are

664
00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 2: actually quite good at that.

665
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: You can it's going to So are you using AI

666
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: models to work out the answers to these things?

667
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 2: Correct?

668
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: So you're actually loading up your own data center wherever

669
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: you keep your data is getting loaded up with the

670
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: good best way in video is so important, like you,

671
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: but you are you are using AI to do the calcs,

672
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: that's building your own AI AI agent to do this stuff.

673
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 2: We're looking at all the data that's coming in from AMO,

674
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 2: so every five minutes on the grid. Yeah, every generator

675
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: reports a variety of different metrics. Same with the off takers.

676
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,719
Speaker 2: People are taking power off and it's about understanding how

677
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 2: those trends work forecasting the demand. That's what AMO does

678
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 2: and so, but what's happened because of the change over

679
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 2: the last ten years with the mix of the actual

680
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 2: generation that's become more motile and what's called a duck

681
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: curve you look it up, it's basically it looks like

682
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 2: a duck when you're a onograph. And so you get

683
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 2: this problem where in reality, over the last ten years,

684
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 2: we haven't actually generated, i consumed any more power as

685
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 2: a whole, because you've had all this load taken off

686
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 2: with household solar. But the volatility is doubled.

687
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: Right at a particular time, the amount of load demand

688
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: is double at the peak, at the peak at a

689
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: particular time at the peak time.

690
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 2: To what it was. But over the is that because.

691
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: Of our behavior that we tend to do things at

692
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: a certain time of day.

693
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 2: But also because you've got more renewables in the grid, right,

694
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 2: because so it's over generating during the day when the

695
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 2: sun's up, and then at night your demand is still there,

696
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 2: but the generation is not necessarily there because it hasn't

697
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 2: been firmed or the sun's gone down or whatever it

698
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 2: might be.

699
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: So what stage you guys at now in terms of rollout.

700
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're rolling out the first site. We've got

701
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,479
Speaker 2: to launch next week and the first site will roll

702
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: out in April.

703
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: Can you see where it is?

704
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 2: It's in New South Wales and regional original kind of

705
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 2: solar site. And this is the interesting thing about the

706
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 2: economics here too, is that they're welcoming and us welcoming

707
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 2: us with open arms because they've they can make more money, well,

708
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 2: they can make more money and at the moment they're

709
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,280
Speaker 2: getting curtailed. So there are assets out there. It's deployed,

710
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 2: can't generate the revenues that they modeled ten years ago

711
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 2: when they bought up the idea, and so they're looking

712
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 2: for your revenue streams. So so please come here and

713
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 2: consume our power.

714
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 1: And how do you go to negotiating with them? Is

715
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: it legal set? I mean, when you're put your your

716
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: containers there, who are your accent it and you're going

717
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: to be drawing some of the exit of their unnused

718
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: power call it? How do you negotiate a price.

719
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question. So pricing again has said

720
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 2: every five minutes on the market. Then you also have

721
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 2: these side agreements called a PPA power purchase agreement. So

722
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 2: generally you'll get these data centers, most of them have

723
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 2: them where it's it's a private kind of arrangement on

724
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 2: the side, doesn't impact market prices. So there's a balance

725
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 2: there between the PPI.

726
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: It's undisclosed, undisclosed. Yeah, that's why it doesn't impact because

727
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: you say it's a side agreement cytograph.

728
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

729
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: In other words, we'll work out the market, we'll work

730
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 1: at the market rate, but we're going to have a

731
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: side agreement as to actual rate. We end up paying

732
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 1: based on usage and availability and etcetera.

733
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 2: Exactly right. And this is how a lot of organizations

734
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 2: are saying out one hundred percent green because they buy

735
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 2: enough power to cover their power usage. But the challenge

736
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 2: with that is they buy enough power to cover the

737
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 2: power usage in a twenty for our window. But it's

738
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 2: not necessarily but at that point in time.

739
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,959
Speaker 1: And this is what we were ways around things.

740
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 2: He's a financial instrument, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

741
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: And how are you going with investors?

742
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, investment's been positive.

743
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: So who are we talking about so when you say

744
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: you don't need to give me names, of course, but

745
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: are we looking at funds or private equity funds or

746
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: what we're looking at?

747
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 2: Yeah? So initially there's a small group of pinet wealth

748
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 2: that's that's involved in the first rounds, and then we're

749
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 2: looking at combination of super funds and industry participants mainly

750
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 2: US space.

751
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: Not not vcs. So you're not talking to adventure capitalists.

752
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 2: Not at the moment we are. There is some discussion

753
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: of the venture capitalists. I think it's it's an interesting

754
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 2: space and I've certainly learned a lot in the last

755
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 2: couple of months around where we go on this, and

756
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 2: maybe you've got some tips to me, But.

757
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: Vcs are pretty tough.

758
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, correct, correct, But where you really seen this is

759
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 2: more of an industrial play. So the reality is that

760
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 2: this is long.

761
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 1: It's not their territory.

762
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a chain, it's a structural shift.

763
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: So have you been finding hw IT wells? Like, how

764
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: are you finding how have you been sort of yeah,

765
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 1: targeting your home net wils.

766
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. So we've got some good networks and we've got

767
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 2: a good we've got good equity advisors appointed who have

768
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 2: the relationships with high net wells, and then it's just

769
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 2: relationships with people people through those networks that we've managed

770
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 2: to find some good corner stone investors off the back

771
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 2: of that. We've also got some good support from the CFC,

772
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 2: so that the Clean Energy Finance Corporation. So this is

773
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 2: austraining governments looking to participate in some way, but the

774
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 2: fact that they're interested and so is.

775
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 1: Everyone else comfort Yeah, that's right. So maybe you could

776
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: quickly just take your mind if you just quickly take

777
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: the audience anyway through from when you first consuve the idea,

778
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: like the funding process. Did you get a safe note

779
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: from someone or had you how did you find you know,

780
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: had you roll this out? Because this has cost money.

781
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 1: You've got to get engineers like design work. There's mechanical,

782
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:38,439
Speaker 1: industrial probably chemical engineers. I mean, you've got just energy

783
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: is coming out out of everywhere and they're they're not cheap.

784
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: And then you've got yeah, then you've got to go

785
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 1: and build your prototypes and you've got tested and blah

786
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. You've got software engineers. I can't just

787
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: can't imagine the cost of this thing. Did you self

788
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: funded did you sell your house, did you find a

789
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: family member or how did you kick it off? And

790
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,280
Speaker 1: been would have been the very stages.

791
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks self funny, was the was the initial part.

792
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 2: We were fortunate that we built as to a point

793
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 2: as a platform business that it could start to engage

794
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 2: in innovative projects.

795
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: It was profitable enough to spare cash.

796
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, correct, And so that the challenge I think in

797
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 2: Australia particularly is that a lot of people want to

798
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 2: invest when there's a certain outcome.

799
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: They're looking for dividends to in this country, unfortunately, that's

800
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 1: the way it works because they've got choices and there's

801
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: not a lot of them.

802
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. And so we found as we

803
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 2: sort of evolved that process or through the process we're starting,

804
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 2: we're needing to find offshore capital. We're trying as much

805
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,439
Speaker 2: as possible to keep in Australia. I've got a view

806
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 2: that Australia should punch above its weight.

807
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: We should use the resources we've got done. If you like,

808
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: innovation is undone underdone in this country, Innovation funding investment underdone.

809
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 2: So as we move into the larger kind of capital requirements,

810
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 2: which is where.

811
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 1: You're talking about sorry sort of ticket size.

812
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 2: As usually one hundred million dollars plus.

813
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're raising one hundred milli plus ye.

814
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 2: So that that has meant that we're just going to

815
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 2: think about this in a in an infrastructure play style.

816
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 2: So and that has been a departure from a lot

817
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 2: of Australian vcs. It's just the scale, So the scale

818
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 2: with our US conversations is a little bit easier to swallow.

819
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 2: We've got some great partners that we're working with from

820
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 2: a manufacturing perspective who have supported us along the way.

821
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 2: A Martyr in particular it's been been a big supporter

822
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: of ours. They basically manufacture modular components, right, so they.

823
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: Do they design and constructors. You have to do the design.

824
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 2: They design and construct with our participation. So we've basically

825
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 2: had a partnership to get the density increase and work

826
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 2: with them on that, and they've also done testing of

827
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 2: the unit's in ue.

828
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: Is it DC and F funding as well or for

829
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,280
Speaker 1: a Marty or is it your it's just design and construct.

830
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 2: You fund, design and construct and we fund. But they

831
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 2: also have a global market as well, so they're into

832
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,439
Speaker 2: various areas. They've got test deployments in the UAE, which

833
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 2: has been good for us because it matches kind of

834
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 2: the outback conditions, and then we'll scale up this location.

835
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 2: So we're really looking at this is this is a

836
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 2: structural change to the industry. So in terms of industrial revolutions,

837
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 2: this is the fourth one, and so there really will

838
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 2: be a seismic shift that's going to occur, we believe.

839
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,919
Speaker 2: And so we could probably talk all day about whether

840
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 2: or not the AI story is going to continue to grow,

841
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 2: but the reality is human does Human does? The demand's

842
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 2: going to be there because we've got a ninety day

843
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 2: deployment model, so we're able to order and delivery in

844
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: ninety days. We can actually sign the order with the

845
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 2: end customer, effectively use dead instruments, and then bring the

846
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 2: units on shore and deploy them in the time that

847
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 2: it takes to ink the contract.

848
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 1: Final question for an important question, I guess these things

849
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: in order to eat customers, you're going to have like

850
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: a I hate to use the words it's underdone, but

851
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: let's call it BDM. Like someone's got to go out

852
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 1: and find people who want to put their raxe. Would

853
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: you just go and try and have you been out

854
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: of a land at AWS or someone big like that

855
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: or yeah.

856
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 2: So we've got a cornerstone customer which is a multinational

857
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 2: healthcare company that will be repealed pretty soon. Then we're

858
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 2: also now chasing neo clouds and researchers. So neo clouds

859
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 2: a like Sharon ai as your furmass. They're the Australian ones.

860
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 2: Nebus is like a big US one. So they're focused

861
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: just on GPU clouds. Often for the hyperscalars. They when

862
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 2: they're looking at sites're looking at minimum say one hundred

863
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 2: megawatt sites, which is a huge amount of power. And

864
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 2: so we've had really good engagement. Then the ability to

865
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 2: roll out quickly, which is the thing that is the

866
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 2: struggle for Australia is how do we participate at the

867
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 2: global speed.

868
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 1: Because that's that's a big issue here Lake. I don't

869
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: know whoever, it is one of the your traditional data groups,

870
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: data center groups. They've got to get the we've got

871
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: to buy the land. Let's say they've got to get

872
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: the approval. Then they've got to build it and you

873
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 1: know it's ninety day deployment is not never. The case

874
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: is like a couple of years. And also they've got

875
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 1: a hundred A lot of times these billion dollar plus

876
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 1: type deals for it billions of dollars, and the approval

877
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: process is not simple. You're not out of Dubbo or

878
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: something like that where no one really gives it. Damn.

879
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,240
Speaker 1: I'm sure of local farmers do. But like generally speaking,

880
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: you haven't got you know, it's not been the West

881
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: of Sydney.

882
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard, and then you've got also like electrical

883
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 2: system and there's all these all these challenges. It really is.

884
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,879
Speaker 2: It's testament to those have done it. The question now

885
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 2: is where where does it go next? Because I don't

886
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 2: think you can fit. You can't continue to expand necessarily

887
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 2: in metro areas and still keep the community happy, power

888
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 2: systems happy, the data center and energy systems really have

889
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 2: to converge, and there has to be that has to happen.

890
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 2: From a government policy perspective, if we want to play

891
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 2: an AI, we've got to think about how we're going

892
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 2: to power it, and there's that's a whole other conversation.

893
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 2: But at the same time too is how do we

894
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 2: how do we make these things basically integrate better into

895
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: society in the community and the large ones that exist

896
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 2: in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane today they've done a great job.

897
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 2: They continue to do a great job. They're critical to

898
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 2: delivering those services to the populations that are here. The

899
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 2: question then is now is how do we scale fast

900
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 2: enough to keep up with the global demand, And so

901
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 2: our viewers is that has to be done where the

902
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 2: energy is generated. It can't be done the cities.

903
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: It's interesting too, because I was just thinking of just

904
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,879
Speaker 1: speaking then. You know, like this the price the value

905
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 1: real estate has gone up significantly, and it's nearly like

906
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: it's in some respects, you know, putting a big data

907
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 1: center and somewhere in Sydney and Melbourne, Brisbon of them,

908
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 1: it's nearly prohibitive because it's not probably not the best

909
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: use of real estate, like ultimately, particularly when we've got

910
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: a housing crisis, like you know, like you get a

911
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: much better powerful pain to get much better outcome if

912
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: you build a departments there, as opposed to if you're

913
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: the landowner, as opposed to sort of building it like

914
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 1: an industrial estate there. I mean, sure the data center

915
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: might pay a good rent, but over time that as

916
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 1: the cities grow, that makes more sense to sort of

917
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: move further out.

918
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's going to happen ultimately. Look at the

919
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 2: White Bay Pouse station here in Sydney. We used to

920
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 2: generate electricity literally in Dying Harbor. That hasn't happened for

921
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:48,879
Speaker 2: hundred so.

922
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 1: They're pulling it down right now. This disruption, I mean,

923
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 1: I don't think it's probably a disruption as such, but

924
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: it's probably more likely an addition to other styles of

925
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: you know how data central work relative to the power grid.

926
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:08,320
Speaker 1: It's it's going to be adjunctive and it's going to

927
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: help things grow and probably smooth out the growth.

928
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 2: That's the plan.

929
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 1: It's not it's not it's not designed to say from

930
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,399
Speaker 1: now on, every data center is going to be like this.

931
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: That's not your deal.

932
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 2: You can't be. We just need as a country to

933
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 2: have the ability to participate in that global growth and

934
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 2: this is just another way we can do it.

935
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: And is it when you say global growth, are you

936
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 1: suggesting that Australia is doing this in Australia we should

937
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: be doing this to grow like the rest of the world,

938
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 1: or you saying that we are perhaps should be looking

939
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: at it to participate in the rest of the world's growth.

940
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 2: Participate because in the rest of the world's growth.

941
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: Right, So in other words, we're a place where they're

942
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: going to store data.

943
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 2: We're a place where we're going to store data, but

944
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 2: also where a place which then can innovate off the

945
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 2: back of that infrastructure. I see this as the X

946
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 2: big export industry. Well right, so yeah, yeah, we are

947
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 2: in the West Australia. We dig stuff out of the

948
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 2: ground and we send it off full and then we

949
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 2: often buy it back and refined products. There's an opportunity

950
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 2: here for us to harness the energy resources. And if

951
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 2: you think about the opportunity from say Perth, Perth is

952
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 2: within fifty milliseconds of five hundred million people in Asia. Wow,

953
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 2: that's the opportunity.

954
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: That's assuming the speed of light speed a light that's right, Yeah,

955
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 1: very fast. And you're going to be using one of

956
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:33,240
Speaker 1: Bevislatory's cables.

957
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, there we go.

958
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's the only way get across you want

959
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 1: to build down a zek. Well that well done, Andrew,

960
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: well done. That's that's great. You know, that's it's funny.

961
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: You know, Yes, I was. I was being interviewed someone

962
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 1: setting me are what you know I should be the

963
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,959
Speaker 1: innovation Australia as being an innovation nation and not innovading enough,

964
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 1: and what can we take advantage of it. I've only

965
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: been thinking the last couple of days about the Middle

966
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: Middle East and the data centers there, the getting potentially

967
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: getting hit with drones of stuff, and I thought one

968
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: thing is we're a big joint Australia, but I do

969
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: nothing about your business. But I often thought, wonder how,

970
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 1: somehow we can have data centers scattered around the country.

971
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: You've solved that, You've solved the question, and that's what

972
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: we need to do. That's how you become a nation building.

973
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: Governments need to get behind this sort of stuff and

974
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: support this sort of stuff. In fact, governments should be

975
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: investing in this sort of stuff. They should be. They

976
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,439
Speaker 1: should be, they should be underpinning your one hundred million round.

977
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 2: They'd be very supportive CFC particularly money. There is some contribution.

978
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 2: Even the fact that they're involved in is helpful. It

979
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 2: gives other people comfort that there's the support there Israelan government.

980
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 2: But yeah, this has to be the way that Australia

981
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:52,439
Speaker 2: takes part in this global growth. Like there is room

982
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 2: to use capital effectively here in Australia. We've been pretty

983
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 2: good at attracting it. But would My observation as an

984
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 2: entrepreneur is that to get past that initial innovation sort

985
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 2: of seed area, it's very very hard. Yeah, it's hard

986
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 2: to do that. So and this is why we've kind

987
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 2: of taken more of an industrial approach.

988
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and taking in overseas.

989
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 2: And exporting, exporting, exporting, and so, you know, using the

990
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 2: Middle East as an example, the submarine cable system for subcoke,

991
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 2: there's one that lands straight into Aman. Wow, so right

992
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 2: in the middle of the Middle East. So there shouldn't

993
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:30,240
Speaker 2: really be a lot of reason why we couldn't perhaps

994
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 2: relocate some of that during turmoils. But all this is

995
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 2: just lateral.

996
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 1: Thinking or even have redundancies relevancies between the two.

997
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's a whole there's a whole range of

998
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 2: different use cases. But yeah, we're well placed as a country.

999
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 2: We're just going to make sure we harness the opportunity.

1000
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: Andrew show quick thanks very much of me. That was excellent.

1001
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: Thanks Mat loved it. Thanks having