1 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: Eating a good diet because of the epigenome and the 2 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: impact on the cup microbiome. About doing regular physical exercise, 3 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: you know, doing sport. I told my kids whenever foreign 4 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: you need to do a team sport and a martial 5 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: art and you can do either. You can do any 6 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: of any of those, but they're important for different reasons, 7 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: and you can stop at any time, but you need 8 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: to find somewhere else to live if you do. But 9 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: I was kind of joking about that bit. But but 10 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: what else? 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 2: What else? 12 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: If we're throwing into the mix with you having done 13 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 1: so much experiments on this, you know, and giving them 14 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: greated exposure. I think part of this is you don't 15 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: just throw them into the deep end and let them 16 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: sink or swim. 17 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 2: It's just out slightly outside of our capabilities to just 18 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 2: stretch them with that. 19 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: What anything that I've said in there, that's that's a 20 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: bit of a flag. 21 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 2: And what would you add to it as well? 22 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 3: No, I think I'm wor I'm worse. So when you 23 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 3: say that you tell your kids that life's amazing, it's 24 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 3: right hard. My life's not amazing that you just got 25 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 3: to work through that. Things happen all the time. And 26 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm building like resilience monsters or 27 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 3: like what I'm doing, but it's it's not on purpose. 28 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 3: It just goes back to like my background. My parents 29 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 3: aren't graduate from college, Like I had to earn what 30 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 3: I did, and no one's ever given me any and 31 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 3: I come from that. The way I do things is 32 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 3: about curiosity, drove in approaching difficulty, and I think I'm 33 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 3: one of my kids have been different, were very fortunate. 34 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 3: I'm very lucky that I have position I'm in, but 35 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 3: they have not had to go through the difficulty. They 36 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 3: had never push through anything that was uncertain. There's always 37 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 3: that there's always a safety net. There's no safety net 38 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 3: when I was when I was pushing through things, and 39 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 3: that's that's that's the one thing. And like you guys 40 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 3: got to like you have to be uncomfortable. I don't 41 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 3: know how to do this to you because you're never uncomfortable, 42 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 3: Like you know that, like, no matter what happens, it's fine. 43 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 3: But sports are the best thing we found with helping 44 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 3: with organization, with social development and also like failing in 45 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 3: a comfortable way, and you mentioned martial arts and like 46 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 3: team sports. This is the first year. I let my 47 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 3: son play football, American football, and it's it's such a 48 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 3: different sport than a lot of other things that he's 49 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 3: always done, like baseball or or others finally like soccer 50 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 3: or whatever. But football is like if this person misses 51 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 3: a block, I get hit really hard. Like my well 52 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 3: beings dependent on some other person. And so that social connection, 53 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 3: that social just reliance is such a different thing. My 54 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 3: daughter is fencing and it's such a mental. 55 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 4: You have to train your brain so clearly it hit 56 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 4: little aby bitty areas and ignore other things that and 57 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 4: she's eight, she starts and she loves this. 58 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 3: They both respond to very different things though. That's one 59 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:20,399 Speaker 3: thing that I never wanted to force my kids into 60 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 3: doing something I want them to do. It was always 61 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 3: let's let them see what they want to do, how 62 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 3: they work, like their natural inclinations. But then like hey, 63 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 3: like if you're in a commit, you commit. That's it. 64 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 3: And having the social aspect of it I think is important. 65 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 3: Where especially with stress, is that we're usually addressing stress, 66 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 3: we're usually dealing with stress is not malaw these other people. 67 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 3: And even in individual sports, there are more martial arts 68 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 3: type sports or things like tatassmings of golf. You're still 69 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 3: there's still people there and learning how to leverage those 70 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 3: social resources. We talk about resources, demands. Can I take 71 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 3: on this team? Be whatever? This is? Well, part of 72 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 3: your resource calculation is other people. It is a social 73 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 3: environment and that's a super important growth area for kids. 74 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 3: And I think playing video games isn't quite good at this, 75 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 3: playing like all my computer games isn't really doing this 76 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 3: in a meaningful way. And so we're trying to get 77 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 3: people just to be present and to be real that. 78 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: I think that's a really important part that I bang 79 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: on about as well, is that challengeing threat response. Right, 80 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: So clearly, clearly we are better to be in a 81 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: challenge response. But as you said earlier on, and we 82 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: can only really be in a true challenge response if 83 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: we perceive that we have the resources to deal with 84 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: the issue or to make the demands of the stressor. 85 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 2: And you think. 86 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 3: About your just think with your bio. Think with your 87 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 3: body is like it doesn't know what's going on. Your 88 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 3: brain is what's telling it. I have the ability to 89 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 3: dealers for a not your body's there to help you 90 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 3: survive and optimize the response to what you need. So 91 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 3: do you think you can't deal with it? Your body's like, okay, 92 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 3: we're going to die, help you survive? Cool, see you 93 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 3: no to day challenge like we're going to use on 94 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 3: address it back to when those states is done. Yeah, 95 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 3: we don't think about stress like that. And so our 96 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 3: brains are telling our bodies what to do, whether we 97 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 3: whe it or not. 98 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: And and but to this point about the resources, this 99 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: comes back to what you said earlier on and I 100 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: am such a big believer in is that we have 101 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: to do hard things because that is what increases our 102 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: belief that we have our resources. Like you know, when 103 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: I work with athletes, you know they all want confidence. 104 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: And and but I said confidence comes from having done 105 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: the work right. 106 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 2: That's where you get that that. 107 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: True internal confidence, and that is where you feel like 108 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: you have the resources. 109 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 2: And my listeners are going to be rolling the freaking 110 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 2: eye here. 111 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: But one of my favorite quotes is from Epictetius, the 112 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,919 Speaker 1: historic philosopher, who said we must all undergo a hard 113 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: winter training and not enter into likely that for which 114 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: we have not prepared. And he was actually talking about life, right, 115 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: So that hard winter training is the stuff that gives 116 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: you the belief that you have the resources, and then 117 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: you and that you're in the challenge, and then your 118 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: physiology is very very different. So tell how can say 119 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: somebody is not very good with stress, they might have 120 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: anxiety around it, and what what are some of some 121 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: tools that they could use or an overall approach to 122 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: help them to increase their stress. 123 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 2: I like to talk about stress capacity. 124 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: How can they increase their capacity over time? 125 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 3: I think the first step it's just knowing that stress 126 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 3: isn't going to kill you, that you can do hard things. 127 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 3: And so that's a perfect I mean, stokesure amazing in 128 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 3: a lot of ways, and a lot of that comes 129 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 3: down to that you have to push yourself beyond a 130 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 3: conversome to do anything worthwhile. If you've ever learned anything, 131 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 3: if you ever done something challenging, you've been stressed. If 132 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 3: you've been excited, you've been stressed. It is when we 133 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 3: think about being stressed, we equate stressed and distress. And 134 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 3: that's where once that kicks in, the physiological signs that 135 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 3: we're feeling stressed becomes signs that something's wrong, and that's 136 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 3: not the case. It's just that we need to do 137 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 3: something like you need to do something, take on whatever 138 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 3: is causing that stress in your environment, and that's okay. 139 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 3: This is why I'm so I don't know what's going 140 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 3: on in terms of like educational systems in Australia, but 141 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 3: in the United States it's a major problem with people. 142 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 3: They're removing barriers for kids. We're getting rid of standardized testing, 143 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 3: we're getting rid of accountability, we're lowering standards in schools. 144 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 3: It's not lowering the bar to make things easier. That 145 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 3: kid's going to have a hard time, but it's safe 146 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 3: to do that. When you're a kid learning, that's the 147 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 3: safest time you can be going through that difficulty and 148 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 3: you push yourself and that kid's going to learn that 149 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 3: they can do this and once they get it, it's 150 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 3: going to click and it's going to do well. And 151 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 3: that's what that's what we need to do. And I'm 152 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 3: very concerned with like this is like a macro thing 153 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 3: in our society where people just aren't they're trying to 154 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 3: remove barriers, they're trying to remove stressors. It's not reducing demands. 155 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 3: It's about boosting resources. And part of that is people's 156 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 3: beliefs around that, and that comes down to how do 157 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 3: you change an attitude, how do you change a belief system? 158 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 3: I would love to get my hand from the medium, 159 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 3: like stop talking about stresses things kill, Like please change. 160 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: And stop talking this, stop talking about this crisis and 161 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: that crisis, and like it's all just negativity. 162 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 3: And crisis and it's the. 163 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 1: Language, right, yes, yes, What about So we've talked a 164 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:23,719 Speaker 1: lot about psychology and and the prais all and and 165 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 1: reapre as all right, So if you pre as something 166 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: as being stressful, just reappraising it as I'm excited, this 167 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: is my body and giving me the resources to act 168 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: and and and I'm sure there's a there's a lot 169 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: more that goes under the hood and in appraisal. 170 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 2: But what about physiology? 171 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: I've often said to people, particularly if they have anxiety, 172 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: two of the best things I think that they can 173 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: do is cold water immersion, regular cold water immersion, and 174 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: increasingly vigorous exercise. 175 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 3: Because you're producing stress. 176 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're producing the same physiological reaction, but in an 177 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: environment that they have some form of control over. And 178 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 1: I think coaching them around that control and encouraging them to. 179 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 2: Self select harder and harder is the way to do it. 180 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: What what's your view on on that approach using the 181 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: physiology going bottom up. 182 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, then this is this was a gold standing way 183 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 3: of producing stress response allowed for a long time. It's 184 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 3: called cold pressure task. That's right hand, the handed some 185 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 3: critical I called wares how long have you been therefore? 186 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 3: And that was that was the goal standing way of 187 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 3: getting stresses was online for a long time before the 188 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 3: tree existed. For those who know better. Tree is you 189 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 3: give a speech in front people. They seep are really 190 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 3: mean to you. So it seems pretty innocuous, but it's 191 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 3: like it's not. It's pretty uncoole. 192 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: There's no a version where you're being video recorded as well, 193 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: every every. 194 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 3: Time did you record it? Any being judged. You're coming 195 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 3: backwards from like the big numbers from steps of thirteen. 196 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 3: It's like it's it's not fun so but it's also 197 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 3: IRB approved and safe and ethical, and so we can 198 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 3: study these things keeping people in a safe environment, which 199 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 3: is true your stress because we can't like bring people 200 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 3: wat and make them fear for their life. You have 201 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 3: to be that's a concerns what you're doing, how you're 202 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 3: going to saying these things, which is great for saying 203 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 3: like normative stress, like regular kinds of stress people experience 204 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 3: in their life, but not really saying like trauma, but 205 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 3: kind of going back to your point, doing things with 206 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 3: physiology and showing people they can be uncomfortable one and 207 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 3: this is something that they get through and they're fine, 208 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 3: Like what does this mean to you? And especially people 209 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 3: who are who are chronically anxious, it's about the meaning 210 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 3: making process a lot of times, like what does this 211 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 3: mean to you? Because anxiety is more about what's gonna 212 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 3: what's going to happen? Now, what has happened. What has 213 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 3: happen is affecting what you think's going to happen and 214 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 3: kind of disrupting that cycle. You wanted to break down 215 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 3: that that negative recursive feedback loop where it's like these 216 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 3: bad things happen, always gonna happen, it keeps happening. You 217 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 3: give them a safe setting. You give somebody a task, 218 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 3: a situation and activity that's producing response. They typically don't 219 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 3: like and what does this mean to you? That's pretty 220 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 3: it's pretty straightforward. They're like, Oh, that's that's interesting. It's 221 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 3: not that bad. I can get through this, Like yeah, 222 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 3: you can get through this. There you go, now you 223 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 3: have resilience. 224 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:35,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think learning physiological tolerance of stress 225 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 1: hormones is really really important. 226 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 2: For these people. 227 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: But I love that you add in the maaning bit 228 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: and and so you're bringing the psychology over the top. 229 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 3: They all time. I mean, you're going back to this 230 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,319 Speaker 3: is in the sixties, like Checkter and Checker and Singer 231 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 3: doing this is like the mid sixties in Jackson's Open 232 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 3: that from jacksonth dragaline. Don't tell them what you're injected them. 233 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 3: They get it's a big response because they be injected 234 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 3: with this restaurant. Are what they immediately do, look through 235 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 3: the environment and make a mean out of why they're 236 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 3: having any response, and they're like, oh, I'm just because 237 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 3: of this. Because of that, Because of that, do the 238 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 3: opposite injecting with saline, but say injecting with that pefron. 239 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 3: They will try to find a meaning to like what's 240 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 3: going on. They're like, why aren't I responding? Makes the 241 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 3: expectation matters, and so people's we've known this for a while, 242 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 3: and so this is like a big thing where we're 243 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,839 Speaker 3: just trying to unpack, like what's the brain, new body. 244 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 3: You're like, it's connected in a way that's so deep 245 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 3: and so I mean, it's not just the brain bite 246 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 3: and they talk about the god, you talk about everything else. 247 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 3: Everything's connected. Our bodies don't work with computers. It's it's 248 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 3: an integrated system. In the way that we don't quite 249 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 3: understand everything about Anyone tells you they understand how our 250 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 3: brain works. They're full of shit. They don't, and so 251 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 3: that we don't. I mean, I'm neuroscientists. I study these things, 252 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 3: but like we don't. Brains are not computers. They don't 253 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 3: bring the prediction machine helping you survive. That's it. Yeah, 254 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 3: it's not about processing data. The way that we by 255 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 3: pews process data and the way our body's interacting with 256 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 3: the me making part. That meaning matters for our bodies 257 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 3: do because what you're telling your body is that am 258 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 3: I safe? I'm not safe. You might need to think 259 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 3: about approaching and singer avoiding this thing. Sometimes it's pretty 260 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 3: basic like that, where your body's like, okay, I'm on 261 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 3: mobilized resources in this way or that way. That's it. 262 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 3: Your body's just there to help you do what it 263 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 3: thinks is best to help you live. That's it. That's 264 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 3: also it m very cool. 265 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: I like that, and I like the I like the 266 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: meaning making around the response that you just had. 267 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 2: What about virtual reality? 268 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 3: This is great, and so I think this would be good. 269 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 3: It's to be good for us in psychology anyway. The 270 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 3: better it gets, it's still a little Unkidney value ee. 271 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 3: I don't know if you're done, like really high end VR, 272 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 3: but you can still tell it's not real people, or 273 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 3: it's like not quite real. It's like this. It's still 274 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 3: a little bit off. But we're getting better and better 275 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 3: every year doing this. For instance, I'm like terrified to heights. 276 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 3: I hate heights. You thinker on something they're gonna like 277 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 3: I do not like that at all, Like tell me 278 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 3: about they make fun of me all the time. We 279 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 3: went to a hiking Zion Canyon on Utah this year. 280 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 3: I like got half of the well I'm like no, 281 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 3: I'm going back down, Like I don't like this at all. 282 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 3: Guys like no, no, no, And but the view by 283 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 3: betting VR systems right, you can put me on those 284 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 3: like think like I don't know legis and I'm like fine, 285 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 3: and so I'm not so it's gonna get it. It 286 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 3: has to scare me for whats it scares me. And 287 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 3: then I'll sign off on it. 288 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: There's there's a very cold m v R thing that 289 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: that that I have actually seen another present or doing. 290 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: It's brilliant, but it gets people and blind. The putt 291 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: a VR headset on them and and and then they 292 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: have to stand on this plank, right, and they when 293 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: as soon as they turn to the art said on 294 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: they're in a lift, right, and they press the button 295 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: and it goes, and then the doors open and they're 296 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: on this plank on the edge of a building. 297 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 3: Right. 298 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 2: But he said that he does some. 299 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: With with with some people to really amp up the belief. 300 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: And I've seen people in this have a massive stress response. 301 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: There's on this ledge and he and he has they 302 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: have to walk out, but then he allowed a fan 303 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: into it for the wind, right, so they actually as 304 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: soon as the doors open, the fan comes on, so 305 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: they feel the wind on them. And they're seeing this 306 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: and they're seeing this ledge, and people have this unbelievable 307 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: stress response, and then he gets them. 308 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 2: He has a little process. 309 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: I'll not give it all away, but some of it's 310 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: about cognitive reappraisal, and then some of it's about breathwork, 311 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: about using the breath to just control the physiology to 312 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: the point where they can start to walk out on 313 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: the ledge and he has the that blank supported. 314 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 2: So is that when they walk at wobbles as well, 315 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 2: And it's I need. 316 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 3: That that that the the wobbling and the wind would 317 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 3: do it. To me is the visual stuff is not 318 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 3: going to do it. There is like a what was 319 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 3: it on that share Limitless? I don't know what what 320 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 3: platform was on. But a friend of mine, Madupiacnola, who's 321 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 3: a wonderful stress researcher, she was working with Chris Hemsworth 322 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 3: on the same thing they're going on by they're using 323 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 3: all sorts of weird stress tests. They're trying to box breathing. 324 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 3: So I try to breathe like into so I intake 325 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 3: I take for good regularly that can be good. So 326 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 3: something this is So this is a broader point that 327 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 3: I think that it's really important emphasize is that there's 328 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 3: no one size fits all approach regular stress. It's like 329 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 3: you need the right tool for the right job. Like 330 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 3: when you're in a situation where you need to down regularly, 331 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 3: you need to kind of dampen down with the response. Yeah, 332 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 3: use those techniques if you need to keep if you 333 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 3: stay in a stressing to address cut demand that needs addressing. Yeah, 334 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 3: implify the stress spots, that's fine. But when people can't 335 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 3: get into these thing, okay, always always do this like no, no, no, no, 336 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 3: you need to help pick up like a tool belt. 337 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 3: You can't use a screwdriver to hammer in the nail, like, 338 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 3: just use a different tools for the different job. That's 339 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 3: really important. So emotion regulation flexibility is vital to love 340 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 3: these all these processes. 341 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 1: So given the a couple of last questions, given this 342 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: meteoric rise that we're getting in empoor mental health, I 343 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: think the stats in the States are very similar to 344 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: the stats here. 345 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 3: It's part of worse worst. 346 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:44,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, are there any promising future directions or interventions that 347 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: you see on the horizon and see it from putting 348 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: all kids in book camp and banning mobile phones making 349 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: them do hard stuff? 350 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 2: What else? What's out there or what's on the horizon? 351 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean social media is I haven't seen a 352 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 3: single empirical say that there's any benefit social media use ever, 353 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 3: not one. So that's so. But we can't limit that 354 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 3: because make a lot of money, and those companies make 355 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 3: tons of money, so we can't get rid of it, 356 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 3: and we need to live with that. There are some 357 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 3: promising things. 358 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 1: We're just about to bond it from their sixteens in 359 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: Australia in the next few. 360 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, we can't. We can't do that. I say, it's 361 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 3: they can't die. 362 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 2: It's no, we can. 363 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 3: We can. Yeah, I can give my dog a gone. 364 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 3: That's fine. It's what we have. That's like our charts. 365 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 3: That's what we want to do. 366 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 1: Is there anything that you say on our horizon that 367 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: has promise here? 368 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 3: There is? I think we can't. We can't run away 369 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 3: from these things. Though. It's as much as like the 370 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 3: research suggests that social media use is a good that 371 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 3: all this stuff is going to be terrible for development. 372 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,959 Speaker 3: It's here already, so we have to have to use it. Essentially, 373 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 3: it's how can I use this in a productive way. 374 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 3: So a lot of the recent research in the intervention 375 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 3: science world is moving towards trying to build AA models 376 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 3: for helping people talk more perrectly about stress. So if 377 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 3: I can learn from so we've this is with David 378 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 3: diegor At Infrasity of Texas is like he's like an 379 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 3: amazing person has a book called nineteen twenty five who 380 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 3: talks about adolescent stress and development. A lot of what 381 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 3: we're trying to figure out is like what is like 382 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 3: supportive mindset stress language? Like we kind of don't know. 383 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 3: Like we can write these interventions that's using a lot 384 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,959 Speaker 3: of it's using a lot of fears and persuasion, research 385 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 3: and marketing. We're trying to build an ideas from psychophysiology 386 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 3: and neuroscience. But how do you get it into people's minds. 387 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 3: We're using marketing to do this. We're trying to persuade them, 388 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 3: but how does that How does a teacher talk to 389 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 3: their students about stress? How does a manager talk to 390 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 3: their employees about stress? We can don't know. And so 391 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 3: if we can build AI tools that can support a 392 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 3: student asking me a question like hey, I feel really 393 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 3: nervous about this exam, Well, if I can create a 394 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,880 Speaker 3: chatbot that they think is their teacher that's getting them 395 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 3: essentially intervention that they don't know, there's things like that 396 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 3: that I think can be done. We just have to 397 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 3: be safe in terms of the implementation and the guard 398 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,479 Speaker 3: reels put around developing the systems, but as long as 399 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 3: we have the training data sets to do it, Like 400 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 3: we're starting to go that direction already. I'm just worried 401 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 3: about if you try to scrub the entire internet to 402 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 3: talk about stress, you're going to get some really pat stuff. 403 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 3: You get to put the right guardrails up, and that's 404 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 3: that's somebody who has control for algorithms to do that, 405 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 3: and it's easy to do. 406 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 2: Find it on TikTok. People don't look at TikTok. 407 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 3: No, please don't never look at Tata's what the Chinese 408 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 3: know everything about you, So don't do that. 409 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: So one last question I'm going to throw to you, 410 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,959 Speaker 1: to Jeremy and and so you're talk talking to a 411 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: bunch of people. Forget about your professional career. You're giving 412 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: advice to young parents who you care about. 413 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 2: What are you going to tell them? What would you 414 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 2: tell them about bringing. 415 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 1: Up their kids to be resilient or hardy or whatever 416 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: language that you want to use or to be able 417 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: to have a better relationship with stress. 418 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 3: I just think keep one phrase money. Your kids can 419 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 3: do hard things. You're not a You're not a bulldozer. 420 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 3: You need to clear the path, the you can walk 421 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 3: over that boulder, the kick can clear that rock. You 422 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 3: need to get rid of it. You give them the 423 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 3: confidence to be able to climb up the rock and 424 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 3: move past it, don't bulldoze it. That's the That's what 425 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 3: I've seen the most as a parent is that a 426 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 3: lot of my kids, their friends and parents, they're so 427 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 3: invested in like I'm going to talk to the coach, 428 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 3: the parent, I'm going to do X, Y and Z. 429 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 3: They're doing the work. The kid is just there kind 430 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 3: of for long for the ride. The kid then gets 431 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 3: to me in college in my class and I'm like, hey, 432 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 3: what do you want to know? They're like I don't know. 433 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,959 Speaker 3: You tell me what I want to know? Like no, no, no, 434 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,239 Speaker 3: what do you want to know? Like no, no, you 435 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 3: tell me what you want to know. It will help. 436 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 3: Let's get let's get to that point. You can do 437 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 3: a study like well, I don't know what I want 438 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 3: to know? Like that adult comes to me, I don't know, 439 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 3: God is me else? Like I don't want to talk 440 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 3: to you then, And that's the I see this so 441 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 3: much with parents that they're so worried about the kid 442 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 3: not being the best or the top or that stop 443 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 3: whatever whatever it is to give you some back. Like 444 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 3: my son is eleven and seventh grade in the US, 445 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 3: which is kind of young right now. She's birthdays in 446 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 3: like late fall, and that's I don't know. That's fine, 447 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 3: he's on the young side. But there's kids who've like 448 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 3: their parents hold them back a year just for like 449 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 3: sports or for like not big enough and like you care. 450 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 3: It's so weird, And do you. 451 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: Know why they do that, because there's a lot of 452 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: data that that kids who are born who are old 453 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: for the year are much more likely to want to 454 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 1: be professional athletes. 455 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 2: They're just trying to set them up for you're going 456 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 2: to give. 457 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 3: Them a reasons. It's so the detends what sport. I've 458 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 3: actually think in some sports it's if you're young for 459 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 3: when you're in the year, then you become the depression. 460 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 3: But it's like the professional the versus like the college athlete. 461 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 3: If you want to get to the top top things, 462 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 3: if you're the youngest person playing a bigger people than you, 463 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 3: you're gonna be the best. If you're still good even 464 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 3: when you're little, that's even. But it's more of a 465 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 3: it's a mindset. It's like I don't my kid can 466 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 3: handle this. Yes, I'm going to keep them behind a 467 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 3: year just to let them like be more developed. Whatever 468 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 3: it might be. It goes back to a belief system 469 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 3: my kid can't do hard things. It goes back to 470 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 3: this like I want to be as safe as possible 471 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 3: producing my kids. It's it's safety. And I don't blame 472 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 3: parents are doing this, like they want to get their 473 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 3: kids into a kids college, They want to get their 474 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 3: kids do a good job. Some parents are just like 475 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 3: they just trying to make it every day, trying to 476 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 3: make a day to day and a lot of like 477 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 3: the choices that we have, we have to like what 478 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 3: do you prioritize? And I always give advice to a 479 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 3: lot of people. I mean, Rochester is an interesting community 480 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 3: where we are in western New York. Out here it's 481 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 3: kind of old like Russ Bell, Like, it's not we're 482 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 3: not living in Los Angeles or Boston or New York. 483 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 3: There's some like real there's like real poverty here. When 484 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 3: people who's going to like where is that kid from 485 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,439 Speaker 3: the inner city Rochester? But the way they're going to 486 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 3: do well the first off, parents engage. Engauge is the 487 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 3: first part, Like knowing where your kids at what they're 488 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 3: doing is like obviously number one, yes, And I think 489 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,959 Speaker 3: once you can get to there, then it's like then 490 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 3: you guys start having choices, then you're start getting freedom. 491 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 3: I'm like, what you're actually being agentic in what you're doing. 492 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 3: And the one thing I've seen in our community anyways 493 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 3: is I don't know what it's like in Australia, but like, 494 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 3: the charter schools here have been amazing. It's not the 495 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 3: public schools. Public schools are terrible. The charter schools I've 496 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 3: been like, absolutely phenomenal because they're more independent, because they 497 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 3: can do things that aren't beholden to the unions are 498 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 3: bereholding to things like that where and that's a problem here. 499 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 3: But we have to, I think, move to a point 500 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 3: where you put the kids before your own interests. And 501 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 3: I think sometimes some parents it's the interests are like 502 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 3: in media gratification, I'm neglecting my child. But sometimes it's 503 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 3: like my child is my proxy to like whatever my 504 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 3: goals are. Yeah, yeah, yeah, remember that it's not it's 505 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 3: it's not you, yes, and like, and they're going to 506 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 3: have to do hard things like the best. I want 507 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 3: to see every I would love to see every second 508 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 3: grade or third grade classroom give spelling tests every week. 509 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 3: I don't care where people are, what country and what 510 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 3: language you're doing, Like just give the spelling tests, make 511 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 3: them study for something like make it, make it third grader, 512 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 3: like because there's no stakes, like zero stakes. This doesn't 513 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 3: matter for anything. But they're going to get used to 514 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 3: like having to work at something that's maybe a little 515 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 3: be uncomfortable, a little bit difficult. And that's fine because 516 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 3: you want to get people to practice. Even when we 517 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 3: do these interventions, we try to help people optimize their 518 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 3: stress responses. The you know, to be always an opportunity 519 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 3: to try it out, and so you want to have 520 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,360 Speaker 3: them do them like right before tests, right before a conversation, 521 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 3: right before like the tree or task for instance. It's 522 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 3: like an immediate way of like practicing it. It's practice, 523 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 3: like you can't you don't get good at you don't 524 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 3: get good at stress. Stress doesn't happen to you. You 525 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 3: are an a gentic agent that determines how you respond 526 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,199 Speaker 3: to stress. And so people, oh, this happened to me, 527 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 3: Like yes, that that stressor happened to you, but how 528 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 3: did you respond in breaking down the stressor to the 529 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 3: stress response is really important And I think when kids 530 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 3: come in on at really young ages, they kind of 531 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 3: get it. They're like, oh, yeah, I need to work 532 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 3: a cargo on this X, Y or Z. And if 533 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 3: you give someone like a rows stakes environing to do 534 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 3: that in great, The kids just kind. 535 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: Of kids kind of basically go they need to put 536 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: their training right and yeah, they need to actually get 537 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: amongst them, but they can. 538 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 3: But they can do hard things. You don't need to 539 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 3: bulldoze the path, Like that's the keeping parents like, don't 540 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 3: be a bulldozer, be like, I don't know, be a rader, 541 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 3: build a ladder topping over the rock. Don't build those 542 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 3: the rock away from them. Yeah. 543 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 2: Nice, that's a that's a that's a cool analogy. 544 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 3: I think. 545 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: The other thing that I would say to parent so 546 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: on your topic of being gaged is also you got 547 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: to think about the other things that go in to 548 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: support their their physiology and their psychology. So so don't 549 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: let them have their goddamn phones in their bedrooms, you know, 550 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: don't let them be six hours a day on a 551 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: freaking screen. Don't let them eat like sugar on drink 552 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: cans of monster full of caffeine when they're freaking eleven 553 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: years old, you know, because if you're beating them a 554 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: shit diet and you're letting them have their phone in 555 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: their room. You are making them swim up stream when 556 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: it comes to not just physical health, but mental health. 557 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: I think this is what so many people realize the 558 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: impact of diet and sleep on mental health. 559 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 3: And I read sleep one is big and we our 560 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 3: kids don't have smartphones. My eleven year old does not 561 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 3: have a smartphone like ever. He does not. He he's 562 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 3: actually doesn't wabam, which is great for him. But he's 563 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 3: that's his own. He's that's his own. He's his own person. 564 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 3: But we have him. He has a dumb phone. He 565 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 3: can make phone calls if he's if his bus is late, 566 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 3: he can call me until my buses. He has to 567 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 3: make our actual phone call and call me. The phone 568 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 3: calls last usually five seconds, saying my bus is late. Okay, cool, 569 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 3: thank you, that's it. The phone's usually halfway not charge 570 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 3: every time. But that's fine. But he has friends who 571 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 3: are like up till like midnight, one o'clock in the morning, 572 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 3: playing video games or like on their phone. And he's 573 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, hey, how's some boddy, And he's like, 574 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 3: well he was tired last night because he's on his phone. 575 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 3: They're like two, Like don't yeah, like you're in bed, 576 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 3: like you're eleven years old. It's nine thirty. Go to bed, 577 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 3: and that's what that's you go get some sleep. I 578 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 3: want some sleep, Like we all have to get sleep. 579 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 3: You're up at six, we're upid, Like, let's let's go sleep. 580 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 3: I don't think people understand sleep health really well. To 581 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 3: you start about evygeniums talk about gut health. Sleep is 582 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 3: the other like big pillar of like supporting people's health. 583 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 3: And I think with stressed, it disrupts sleep so much. 584 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 3: People worried about delimination turning your brain off, Like it 585 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 3: just it's going to disrupt a sleep process and at you. 586 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: And we know that if you have a lack of sleep, 587 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: you are more likely to be stressed. 588 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:21,719 Speaker 2: The next day. 589 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: Court has also hired the entire next day grelling, the 590 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: major hunger hormone is is higher the entire next day. 591 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 2: You're going to create shitty food, which is a. 592 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 3: Vid chickens yep, yeah chi yeah. 593 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: Leaptin is lower, which means you're going to sit on 594 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: your arse most of the day as well. 595 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 2: And it's just you know, there's just this nasty, vicious cycle. 596 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 2: And actually I talked to marching arms. 597 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: I think it was is A is a Dutch researcher, 598 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: and their research showed that that sleep deprivation drives ADHD 599 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,479 Speaker 1: like symptoms. And his thing is you you fix sleep 600 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: in teenagers, so many less of them would be getting 601 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: diagnosis of mental health issues. And then you throw you 602 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: throw shit diet and lack of physical activity in the But. 603 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 3: They're all length though, And so when you're tired, eat 604 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 3: chia food. Don't move, don't move ea chi food. You 605 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 3: get tired, it's it gonna be. It's just going to 606 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 3: go around and round around. Its just being conscious about 607 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 3: what you're doing. I think people don't think sometimes about 608 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 3: these daily decisions. But just give Kit a phone, give 609 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 3: Kit a nightpad, shot him up for like an hour 610 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 3: while at dinner, and give a book like get it. 611 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 3: We started getting We started getting a physical newspaper, like 612 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 3: an actual paper newspaper, because we got we realized were 613 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 3: at the table that in breakfast every morning, my ration 614 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 3: and I were like reading the news and our phones 615 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 3: are like the computer, and it's like it feels weird. 616 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 3: So we cut a newspaper like give well, literally the 617 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 3: kids take a sexually start reading for the news to 618 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 3: put it down. They go, it's it's it's it's hysterical. 619 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 3: But don't don't just pick up on what you do 620 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 3: pretty quick. That's right exactly, that's what they say. They 621 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 3: do what you do now. I think with parents too, 622 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 3: like you have to you have to walk the walk, 623 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 3: not just talk the talk, like if you want the 624 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 3: kids to stop using the phones, to stop being reliant 625 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 3: on these things, like we need to do this ourselves. 626 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 3: And because the reason why, why why you can't find 627 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 3: me on social media when you can't find me on 628 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 3: these other platforms. So I'm on Paul's podcast especially about it. 629 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: And I'm like, we do you Unfortunately to draw this 630 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 1: too close there, I mean this, this has been awesome 631 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: and hopefully this will help people to reappree as what 632 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: what stress is all about. And I think there's some 633 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: really good practical tools as well as you explaining the biology. 634 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 2: I think it's been very, very helpful. 635 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: And we don't have a rabant in the book which 636 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: I can't send people to, but anybody who is interested 637 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: in this, I would just say to Google and google 638 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: you Professor Jeremy Jamison and on Google scholar, there's a 639 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 1: whole list of your publications, which are really interesting shit. 640 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: For anybody who wants to go down the rabbit hole, 641 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: I think, go and look at your research, because you, 642 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: I think your real trail blazer in this area. So 643 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: it's it's pretty cool to have you on and and 644 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: thank you for giving up your time, particularly when you 645 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: have nothing really to get out of it other than 646 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 1: a conversation. 647 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 3: That's no, that's that's that's that's important though, And I 648 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 3: think anyone who reads any research, argos mine anybody else 649 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 3: is like, think about it, like we're gonna write discussion sections. 650 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 3: That's our interpretation with the data, read it for yourself, 651 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 3: read a results, read the methods. Like I strongly strongly 652 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 3: suggest people do this. And I just want to say, 653 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,280 Speaker 3: like the one thing if we can get one message 654 00:34:53,280 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 3: across today is that stress isn't always bad, especially for 655 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 3: your kids. They can do the hard things and the 656 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 3: more they do those hard things, the better they get 657 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,839 Speaker 3: at it. And so you're there, you can support them, 658 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,800 Speaker 3: you can help them, and that's kind of it, you know. 659 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 3: It is just also emailing questions if you want to. 660 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 3: I just like talking about things like this. This is fine. 661 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 3: Thank you so much having me. 662 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 2: Oh, man, it's been an absolute pleasure. 663 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing all of your knowledge and insights 664 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: on what is an increasingly important topic. And I do 665 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 1: like that we dived into kids and hopefully there's some 666 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: little gold nuggets for parents in there to actually do 667 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:42,840 Speaker 1: the work to help. 668 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 2: Reis resilient kids, which is really important. 669 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,760 Speaker 1: Jermy, Enjoy the rest of your evening, whatever is left 670 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: of it. 671 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 2: And. 672 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 3: Sleep. So it's important. 673 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:55,720 Speaker 2: Sleep, it's important. 674 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: Let's it go, get some sleep and prepare yourself for 675 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: tomorrow and whatever curb the universe has. 676 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 2: Thank you very much. 677 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 3: Thank you