WEBVTT - 'A cancer': How Abbott and Credlin control the Liberals

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<v Speaker 1>It was May eight, just days after the coalition's devastating

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<v Speaker 1>election loss, when Tony Abbott made a phone call.

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<v Speaker 2>So Tony Abbott, of course, one of our former prime ministers,

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<v Speaker 2>former leader of the Liberal Party, was on his way

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<v Speaker 2>to Hungary, where he was planning to address the Danube Institute.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a right wing think tank. But during a

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<v Speaker 2>stopover on the way to Hungary in Dubai, Tony Abbott

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<v Speaker 2>decided that he needed to call Natasha Griggs. She's the

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<v Speaker 2>president of the Country Liberal Party in the Northern Territory,

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<v Speaker 2>and Tony Abbott wanted to talk to her about Jacinta

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<v Speaker 2>Nabajimpa Price moving over to the Liberal Party.

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<v Speaker 1>Abbot was pressing his case that just Center Price was

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<v Speaker 1>someone that the Liberal Party needed in their ranks.

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<v Speaker 2>Natasha Griggs told me that Tony Abbott said to her

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<v Speaker 2>that in his view, just Enterprise was a very talented politician,

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<v Speaker 2>someone who represents the future of the Liberal and that

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<v Speaker 2>it was time that she came into the Liberal Party fold.

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<v Speaker 1>Hours later, Senator Price switched party rooms.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a very controversial move because I think all

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<v Speaker 2>the Nationals felt that it was really a betrayal, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think Tony Abbott probably anticipated this kind of reaction

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<v Speaker 2>and so he wanted to smooth things over with the

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<v Speaker 2>COLP administrative wing before just Enterprice's defection was announced.

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<v Speaker 1>For moderates, it was another sign that the former Prime

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<v Speaker 1>minister was still pulling the party's leavers from the outside,

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<v Speaker 1>something he's been doing for years from Schwartzmania. I'm Daniel

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<v Speaker 1>James is seven am today, National correspondent for the Saturday Paper.

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<v Speaker 1>Jason kotsukis on Tony Abbott. He shadow networks steering the

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<v Speaker 1>Liberals and why inside to say there are cancer killing

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<v Speaker 1>the party this Tuesday May twenty seven. So, Jason, it

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<v Speaker 1>turns out Tony Abbott was pushing behind the scenes for

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<v Speaker 1>just Center Prize to switch parties. Can you tell me

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<v Speaker 1>why he involved himself in that decision?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Tony Abbott sees to Center Price as very much

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<v Speaker 2>the future of the Liberal Party. She's on the far

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<v Speaker 2>right of the party, and I think Tony Abbott wants

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<v Speaker 2>to strengthen the conservative wing of the Liberal Party. He

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't want to see his party moving back to the center,

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<v Speaker 2>as Susan Lee said that she wanted to do after

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<v Speaker 2>she won the leadership ballot. And I think for many

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<v Speaker 2>inside the party. It was kind of felt like deja vous.

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<v Speaker 2>They've been here before. And Tony Abbott, of course, when

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<v Speaker 2>he was Prime Minister, didn't last very long, and mainly

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<v Speaker 2>that was thanks to him trying to implement a very

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<v Speaker 2>far right agenda that caught voters by surprise. It caught

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<v Speaker 2>his party room by surprise.

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<v Speaker 3>A little while ago I met with the Prime Minister

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<v Speaker 3>and advised him that I would be challenging him for

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<v Speaker 3>the leadership of the Liberal.

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<v Speaker 2>Party only two years into the role. He was, of

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<v Speaker 2>course challenged by Malcolm Turnbull.

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<v Speaker 3>We have lost thirty news polls in a row. It

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<v Speaker 3>is clear that the people have made up their mind

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<v Speaker 3>about mister Abbot's leadership.

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<v Speaker 2>And he lost the leadership. He lost the Prime ministership.

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<v Speaker 4>Pole driven panic has produced a revolving door prime ministership

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<v Speaker 4>which can't be good for our country, and a fedrole

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<v Speaker 4>media culture has developed that rewards treachery.

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<v Speaker 2>For a lot of Liberals. It felt like though, going

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<v Speaker 2>back to this kind of territory that they'd sort of

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<v Speaker 2>fought over before and felt that this had sort of

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<v Speaker 2>been dealt with. But here he is. He's back trying

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<v Speaker 2>to push the same agenda that got him into all

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<v Speaker 2>sorts of trouble ten years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>So what do we know about the reaction in side

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<v Speaker 1>the parties more broadly as it unfolded, Well.

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<v Speaker 2>The Nationals were furious when the news was made public.

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<v Speaker 5>National Senate leader Bridget Mackenzie joining us from Bendigo.

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<v Speaker 2>Good to talk to you again, Bridget.

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<v Speaker 5>You must be disappointed by the news that senator just

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<v Speaker 5>sent it now. But jimper Price is leaving your party

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<v Speaker 5>to sit with the Liberals.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 6>Absolutely. I think it's a devastating loss to our party room, particularly.

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<v Speaker 2>They remain angry about it.

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<v Speaker 6>Loyalty matters in the game of politics, and so it

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<v Speaker 6>is incredibly disappointing our shared David.

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<v Speaker 2>For a start, they lost a senator, so their party's

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<v Speaker 2>status in the Senate is no longer official. They're under

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<v Speaker 2>that threshold of five senators down to four. They also

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<v Speaker 2>lost a Senator from New South Wales at the actual election,

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<v Speaker 2>Paren Davies. She just didn't win enough votes. The Liberals

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<v Speaker 2>were a little bit alarmed when it emerged that Price

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<v Speaker 2>was not only joining the Liberal Party party room, but

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<v Speaker 2>she'd be running as a deputy on a joint ticket

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<v Speaker 2>with Angus Taylor for the leadership of the Liberal Party,

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<v Speaker 2>and then there were rumors also circulating that Tony Abbott

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<v Speaker 2>had engineered all of this from behind the scenes. The

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<v Speaker 2>news that he was kind of pulling the strings did

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<v Speaker 2>alarm a lot of Liberal Party members, especially the moderate wing,

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<v Speaker 2>that have been trying to push back against Tony Abbott

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<v Speaker 2>for quite a long time.

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<v Speaker 1>So you've been speaking to a number of people inside

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<v Speaker 1>the Liberal Party. What have they been saying about this episode?

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<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of moderates feel that Tony Abbott

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<v Speaker 2>and his closest confident, who is, of course, his former

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<v Speaker 2>chief of staff, Peter Kredlin, who's now a prominent commentator

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<v Speaker 2>across the Murdock tabloids as well as the Australian and

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<v Speaker 2>Sky News. A lot of moderates feel that both Tony

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<v Speaker 2>Abbot and Peter Credlin have been really trying to shape

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<v Speaker 2>the Federal Party's direction from the sidelines.

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<v Speaker 6>It was a very hard watch for Liberals around the

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<v Speaker 6>country on Saturday night.

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<v Speaker 4>Where to now for the party?

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<v Speaker 5>Well, under those circumstances, should the party become labor light.

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<v Speaker 5>It's not a question of being more progressive or more conservative.

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<v Speaker 5>It's a question of being more strongly Liberal.

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<v Speaker 2>But what struck me in doing this story was how

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<v Speaker 2>much ill feeling there is within the Liberal Party towards

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<v Speaker 2>Tony Abbott and Peter Kredlin. It wasn't hard to get

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<v Speaker 2>people to say what they really think, and one person

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<v Speaker 2>said to me that Tony Abbott and his Sky News

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<v Speaker 2>after Dark cronies and those few people left in the

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<v Speaker 2>Parliamentary Party who still listened to him are so tone

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<v Speaker 2>deaf that they are trying to pretend the weaknesses that

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<v Speaker 2>made the coalition unelectable actually strengths. Another person said to

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<v Speaker 2>me that they had a big role in shaping Peter

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<v Speaker 2>Dutton's policy agenda. They said to me it was Abbott

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<v Speaker 2>and Kredlin who were forever in Dutton's ear programming Dutton's

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<v Speaker 2>stupid policy positions. These people are like cancer, another person

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<v Speaker 2>told me, arguing for more carcinogenic policies, they will kill

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<v Speaker 2>the Liberal Party for good. And if you're trying to

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<v Speaker 2>understand why the Liberal Party today is a smoking ruin,

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<v Speaker 2>then look no further than Tony Abbott and Peter Kredlin.

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<v Speaker 1>After the break, What other disastrous decisions have Abbot and

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<v Speaker 1>Kredlin had their hand in. Jason, you've been looking into

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<v Speaker 1>the enduring influence of Tony Abbot in the Liberal Party.

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<v Speaker 1>What else has he been involving himself in.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, when you put it all together, Tony Abbott is

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<v Speaker 2>involving himself in quite a few different causes. I think.

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<v Speaker 2>Another thing that Tony Abbott and Peter Kreblin were heavily

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<v Speaker 2>involved in last year was this decision by the federal

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<v Speaker 2>Liberal Party executive to take over the New South Wales

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<v Speaker 2>division of the Liberal Party. And I think there's few

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<v Speaker 2>grievances in the New South Wales Division that run deeper

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<v Speaker 2>than this one, because they feel that at Tony Abbott's

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<v Speaker 2>instigation that Peter Dutton appointed two very prominent right wing Victorians,

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<v Speaker 2>Alan Stockdale, the former Victorian Treasurer and Richard Olsten, former

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<v Speaker 2>minister in the Howard government. And the pretexts for this

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<v Speaker 2>intervention was a bungled nominations process for the New South

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<v Speaker 2>Wales local government elections last year. For whatever reason, the

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<v Speaker 2>New South Wales Division was not able to organize the

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<v Speaker 2>nominations for a lot of candidates, so the Liberal Party

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<v Speaker 2>didn't actually run candidates and a lot of key local

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<v Speaker 2>government contests and understandably there was a lot of anger

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<v Speaker 2>over this bungled nominations process, and it did prompt the

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<v Speaker 2>federal intervention. But I think a lot of moderates believe

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<v Speaker 2>that the real agenda here was the Conservatives wanting to

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<v Speaker 2>take over the New South Wales division and punish a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of those moderates who were in influential positions. Another

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<v Speaker 2>thing that both Abbott and Kredlin have been heavily involved

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<v Speaker 2>in is this very nasty dispute that's taken place in

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<v Speaker 2>Victoria between the former leader of the Victorian Liberals, John Persudo,

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<v Speaker 2>and Moira Deeming, who's a member of the Victorian Upper House.

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<v Speaker 6>Toty, welcome to the program. I've got a whole laundry

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<v Speaker 6>list of stuff I want to get your view on,

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<v Speaker 6>but I've got to get your view on Moira Deeming.

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<v Speaker 6>I just spoke to her live in the studio.

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<v Speaker 2>More Deeming had attended an anti trans rally in Victoria

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<v Speaker 2>back in twenty twenty three, and John Perzudo was very

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<v Speaker 2>critical of her for attending that rally, especially because some

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<v Speaker 2>neo Nazis had sort of turned up in support of

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<v Speaker 2>what this rally was all about, and he had linked

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<v Speaker 2>Moira Deeming with this neo Nazi group and Moira Demi

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<v Speaker 2>ended up being expelled from the Liberal Party party room.

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<v Speaker 2>Peter as the father of three daughters.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm utterly dismayed that a mainstream political party would sack

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<v Speaker 5>a member of parliament for defending women's rights. And to

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<v Speaker 5>the extent that the Liberal Party has a women's problem,

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<v Speaker 5>it must have got much much worse by the expulsion

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<v Speaker 5>of this brave and smart woman from its own ranks.

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<v Speaker 2>And in response, I think at the urging of Tony

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<v Speaker 2>Abbott and Peter Credlin, moy Redeeming sued John Persudo. She

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<v Speaker 2>won that lawsuit. She won three hundred thousand dollars in

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<v Speaker 2>damages and she's also won legal costs, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>John Persuda now has to pay two point three million

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<v Speaker 2>in legal costs, and so he's facing bankruptcy and that

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<v Speaker 2>will mean that will have to resign his seat in

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<v Speaker 2>Parliament if he can't raise the money. And a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of moderates feel very angry towards Tony Abbott and Peter

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<v Speaker 2>Kredlin for goading lawyer Deemi into taking on this lawsuit,

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<v Speaker 2>and so there's a lot of anger about that, I think.

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<v Speaker 1>So it seems like there's been a string of poor

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<v Speaker 1>decisions with Tony Abbott's fingerprints on them. Tony Abbott famously

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<v Speaker 1>lost his prominenceship a decade ago and then lost his

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<v Speaker 1>seat in Parliament. So why does he still have so

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<v Speaker 1>much influence within the party.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a great question, Daniel, because how could you

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<v Speaker 2>take someone seriously who after winning a massive majority as

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<v Speaker 2>Tony Abbott did in the twenty thirteen election. He had

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<v Speaker 2>I think ninety seats, he had a relatively tame crossbench,

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<v Speaker 2>yet managed to throw away the prime ministership within I

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<v Speaker 2>think it was two years and two days that he served,

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<v Speaker 2>and I find it difficult to understand why anyone would

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<v Speaker 2>take Tony Abbitt seriously as a person of any kind

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<v Speaker 2>of political wisdom. And it wasn't just Tony Abbot managed

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<v Speaker 2>to do it by himself. He had Peter Kredlin as

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<v Speaker 2>his chief of staff and it is really a puzzle

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<v Speaker 2>that these two still have any real influence in the

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<v Speaker 2>Liberal Party. I think the reason why they've tried to

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<v Speaker 2>hold on to a power base is one liberal put

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<v Speaker 2>to me, It's all about revenge. It's all about Tony

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<v Speaker 2>Abbott trying to rewrite history as to why he was

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<v Speaker 2>dumped by his own party. It's worth remembering that it

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't some sort of moderate uprising that saw Tony Abbott

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<v Speaker 2>lose the leadership. It was Tony Abbott's policy decisions, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>things like wanting to give Prince Philip a knighthood, that

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<v Speaker 2>disastrous first budget that he brought down in twenty fourteen,

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<v Speaker 2>which broke so many of the promises that Tony Abbott

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<v Speaker 2>himself had made it the during the election campaign. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>in the end, it was conservatives within the Liberal Party

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<v Speaker 2>that decided they couldn't keep Tony Abbott on as leader

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<v Speaker 2>or Prime Minister any longer, and it was them that

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<v Speaker 2>got rid of him. But I think Tony Abbott believes

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<v Speaker 2>that the moderates were to blame, and I think his

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<v Speaker 2>goal is to try to cast them out of the party.

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<v Speaker 2>He wants to recast the Liberal Party in his own

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<v Speaker 2>image and justify his past leadership, and I think prove

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<v Speaker 2>that the path that voters have already rejected is the

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<v Speaker 2>path that the Liberals should still follow.

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<v Speaker 1>Susan Lee is the new leader and she is a moderate.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you expect the fact that she's in charge

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<v Speaker 1>now to change the level of influence Tony Abbott has well.

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<v Speaker 2>I think Susan LEAs indicated pretty clearly that she agrees

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<v Speaker 2>that the Liberal Party has to move back towards the center.

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<v Speaker 2>She said that the Liberal Party has to meet voters

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<v Speaker 2>where they are. But I think she's going to have

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<v Speaker 2>real trouble trying to limit Tony Abbot's influence because he

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<v Speaker 2>does have such a strong grip on a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>sections of the party. But he's kind of doing that

0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:04.239
<v Speaker 2>with the help of the Rupert Murdoch empire in Australia.

0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:09.080
<v Speaker 2>Tony Abbott is on the board of Fox International. He's

0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:12.160
<v Speaker 2>very close to Lachlan Murdoch, who is the CEO and

0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:15.280
<v Speaker 2>chairman of Fox Liberals that I spoke to last week

0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:19.480
<v Speaker 2>said that Lachland takes far more active interest in Australian

0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:23.000
<v Speaker 2>politics than his father ever did. And so I think

0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:27.200
<v Speaker 2>anyone that threatens to deviate from the sort of Tony

0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:32.800
<v Speaker 2>Abbott worldview risks getting slammed on the opinion pages of

0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:37.160
<v Speaker 2>the newspages of The Australian or Unsky News. So Tony

0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.120
<v Speaker 2>Abbitt's got a lot of kind of levers that he

0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:43.520
<v Speaker 2>can pull when it comes to exerting his influence within

0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:45.800
<v Speaker 2>the Liberal Party, and I think Susan Lee has got

0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.320
<v Speaker 2>a real fight on her hands trying to push back

0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:52.400
<v Speaker 2>against that. I guess the big advantage she has is

0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:55.960
<v Speaker 2>she can just point to the scoreboard at the last

0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:59.160
<v Speaker 2>election and show that if the Liberal Party is going

0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:03.360
<v Speaker 2>to have any hope of pegging back that huge majority

0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:05.800
<v Speaker 2>that Labor has at the moment, then they really do

0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:08.360
<v Speaker 2>have no choice but to move back to the center.

0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:11.360
<v Speaker 2>But I think Susan Lee is going to have to

0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:14.520
<v Speaker 2>gear herself up for what will be a long and

0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:15.320
<v Speaker 2>bruising battle.

0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:18.840
<v Speaker 1>Jason, always a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you for

0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:19.280
<v Speaker 1>your time.

0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.040
<v Speaker 2>Daniel, thanks sir for having me.

0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.120
<v Speaker 1>Also in the news today, Prome Minister Anthony Alberinezi says

0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:43.440
<v Speaker 1>Israel's blockade of aid in the Gaza is an outrage,

0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:47.600
<v Speaker 1>calling the Israeli government's justification for stopping critical food and

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<v Speaker 1>medical supplies quote completely untenable.

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<v Speaker 3>It is outrageous that there be a blockade of food

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<v Speaker 3>and supplies to people who are in need in Gaza.

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<v Speaker 1>Whence come as calls are growing for Australia to join

0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:06.560
<v Speaker 1>the UK, France and Canada and threatening sanctions if Israel's

0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:13.800
<v Speaker 1>campaign continues, and weather conditions are expected to complicate recovery

0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.440
<v Speaker 1>efforts on the mid north coast of New South Wales

0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:19.960
<v Speaker 1>as residents recover from the devastating floods that grip through

0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:23.880
<v Speaker 1>their region last week. About thirty two thousand residents from

0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:29.040
<v Speaker 1>fourteen communities remain isolated even as floodwaters received This has

0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:40.880
<v Speaker 1>been seven am. Thanks for listening.