Speaker 1: It was May eight, just days after the coalition's devastating
Speaker 1: election loss, when Tony Abbott made a phone call.
Speaker 2: So Tony Abbott, of course, one of our former prime ministers,
Speaker 2: former leader of the Liberal Party, was on his way
Speaker 2: to Hungary, where he was planning to address the Danube Institute.
Speaker 2: This is a right wing think tank. But during a
Speaker 2: stopover on the way to Hungary in Dubai, Tony Abbott
Speaker 2: decided that he needed to call Natasha Griggs. She's the
Speaker 2: president of the Country Liberal Party in the Northern Territory,
Speaker 2: and Tony Abbott wanted to talk to her about Jacinta
Speaker 2: Nabajimpa Price moving over to the Liberal Party.
Speaker 1: Abbot was pressing his case that just Center Price was
Speaker 1: someone that the Liberal Party needed in their ranks.
Speaker 2: Natasha Griggs told me that Tony Abbott said to her
Speaker 2: that in his view, just Enterprise was a very talented politician,
Speaker 2: someone who represents the future of the Liberal and that
Speaker 2: it was time that she came into the Liberal Party fold.
Speaker 1: Hours later, Senator Price switched party rooms.
Speaker 2: It was a very controversial move because I think all
Speaker 2: the Nationals felt that it was really a betrayal, and
Speaker 2: I think Tony Abbott probably anticipated this kind of reaction
Speaker 2: and so he wanted to smooth things over with the
Speaker 2: COLP administrative wing before just Enterprice's defection was announced.
Speaker 1: For moderates, it was another sign that the former Prime
Speaker 1: minister was still pulling the party's leavers from the outside,
Speaker 1: something he's been doing for years from Schwartzmania. I'm Daniel
Speaker 1: James is seven am today, National correspondent for the Saturday Paper.
Speaker 1: Jason kotsukis on Tony Abbott. He shadow networks steering the
Speaker 1: Liberals and why inside to say there are cancer killing
Speaker 1: the party this Tuesday May twenty seven. So, Jason, it
Speaker 1: turns out Tony Abbott was pushing behind the scenes for
Speaker 1: just Center Prize to switch parties. Can you tell me
Speaker 1: why he involved himself in that decision?
Speaker 2: Well, Tony Abbott sees to Center Price as very much
Speaker 2: the future of the Liberal Party. She's on the far
Speaker 2: right of the party, and I think Tony Abbott wants
Speaker 2: to strengthen the conservative wing of the Liberal Party. He
Speaker 2: doesn't want to see his party moving back to the center,
Speaker 2: as Susan Lee said that she wanted to do after
Speaker 2: she won the leadership ballot. And I think for many
Speaker 2: inside the party. It was kind of felt like deja vous.
Speaker 2: They've been here before. And Tony Abbott, of course, when
Speaker 2: he was Prime Minister, didn't last very long, and mainly
Speaker 2: that was thanks to him trying to implement a very
Speaker 2: far right agenda that caught voters by surprise. It caught
Speaker 2: his party room by surprise.
Speaker 3: A little while ago I met with the Prime Minister
Speaker 3: and advised him that I would be challenging him for
Speaker 3: the leadership of the Liberal.
Speaker 2: Party only two years into the role. He was, of
Speaker 2: course challenged by Malcolm Turnbull.
Speaker 3: We have lost thirty news polls in a row. It
Speaker 3: is clear that the people have made up their mind
Speaker 3: about mister Abbot's leadership.
Speaker 2: And he lost the leadership. He lost the Prime ministership.
Speaker 4: Pole driven panic has produced a revolving door prime ministership
Speaker 4: which can't be good for our country, and a fedrole
Speaker 4: media culture has developed that rewards treachery.
Speaker 2: For a lot of Liberals. It felt like though, going
Speaker 2: back to this kind of territory that they'd sort of
Speaker 2: fought over before and felt that this had sort of
Speaker 2: been dealt with. But here he is. He's back trying
Speaker 2: to push the same agenda that got him into all
Speaker 2: sorts of trouble ten years ago.
Speaker 1: So what do we know about the reaction in side
Speaker 1: the parties more broadly as it unfolded, Well.
Speaker 2: The Nationals were furious when the news was made public.
Speaker 5: National Senate leader Bridget Mackenzie joining us from Bendigo.
Speaker 2: Good to talk to you again, Bridget.
Speaker 5: You must be disappointed by the news that senator just
Speaker 5: sent it now. But jimper Price is leaving your party
Speaker 5: to sit with the Liberals.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Absolutely. I think it's a devastating loss to our party room, particularly.
Speaker 2: They remain angry about it.
Speaker 6: Loyalty matters in the game of politics, and so it
Speaker 6: is incredibly disappointing our shared David.
Speaker 2: For a start, they lost a senator, so their party's
Speaker 2: status in the Senate is no longer official. They're under
Speaker 2: that threshold of five senators down to four. They also
Speaker 2: lost a Senator from New South Wales at the actual election,
Speaker 2: Paren Davies. She just didn't win enough votes. The Liberals
Speaker 2: were a little bit alarmed when it emerged that Price
Speaker 2: was not only joining the Liberal Party party room, but
Speaker 2: she'd be running as a deputy on a joint ticket
Speaker 2: with Angus Taylor for the leadership of the Liberal Party,
Speaker 2: and then there were rumors also circulating that Tony Abbott
Speaker 2: had engineered all of this from behind the scenes. The
Speaker 2: news that he was kind of pulling the strings did
Speaker 2: alarm a lot of Liberal Party members, especially the moderate wing,
Speaker 2: that have been trying to push back against Tony Abbott
Speaker 2: for quite a long time.
Speaker 1: So you've been speaking to a number of people inside
Speaker 1: the Liberal Party. What have they been saying about this episode?
Speaker 2: I think a lot of moderates feel that Tony Abbott
Speaker 2: and his closest confident, who is, of course, his former
Speaker 2: chief of staff, Peter Kredlin, who's now a prominent commentator
Speaker 2: across the Murdock tabloids as well as the Australian and
Speaker 2: Sky News. A lot of moderates feel that both Tony
Speaker 2: Abbot and Peter Credlin have been really trying to shape
Speaker 2: the Federal Party's direction from the sidelines.
Speaker 6: It was a very hard watch for Liberals around the
Speaker 6: country on Saturday night.
Speaker 4: Where to now for the party?
Speaker 5: Well, under those circumstances, should the party become labor light.
Speaker 5: It's not a question of being more progressive or more conservative.
Speaker 5: It's a question of being more strongly Liberal.
Speaker 2: But what struck me in doing this story was how
Speaker 2: much ill feeling there is within the Liberal Party towards
Speaker 2: Tony Abbott and Peter Kredlin. It wasn't hard to get
Speaker 2: people to say what they really think, and one person
Speaker 2: said to me that Tony Abbott and his Sky News
Speaker 2: after Dark cronies and those few people left in the
Speaker 2: Parliamentary Party who still listened to him are so tone
Speaker 2: deaf that they are trying to pretend the weaknesses that
Speaker 2: made the coalition unelectable actually strengths. Another person said to
Speaker 2: me that they had a big role in shaping Peter
Speaker 2: Dutton's policy agenda. They said to me it was Abbott
Speaker 2: and Kredlin who were forever in Dutton's ear programming Dutton's
Speaker 2: stupid policy positions. These people are like cancer, another person
Speaker 2: told me, arguing for more carcinogenic policies, they will kill
Speaker 2: the Liberal Party for good. And if you're trying to
Speaker 2: understand why the Liberal Party today is a smoking ruin,
Speaker 2: then look no further than Tony Abbott and Peter Kredlin.
Speaker 1: After the break, What other disastrous decisions have Abbot and
Speaker 1: Kredlin had their hand in. Jason, you've been looking into
Speaker 1: the enduring influence of Tony Abbot in the Liberal Party.
Speaker 1: What else has he been involving himself in.
Speaker 2: Well, when you put it all together, Tony Abbott is
Speaker 2: involving himself in quite a few different causes. I think.
Speaker 2: Another thing that Tony Abbott and Peter Kreblin were heavily
Speaker 2: involved in last year was this decision by the federal
Speaker 2: Liberal Party executive to take over the New South Wales
Speaker 2: division of the Liberal Party. And I think there's few
Speaker 2: grievances in the New South Wales Division that run deeper
Speaker 2: than this one, because they feel that at Tony Abbott's
Speaker 2: instigation that Peter Dutton appointed two very prominent right wing Victorians,
Speaker 2: Alan Stockdale, the former Victorian Treasurer and Richard Olsten, former
Speaker 2: minister in the Howard government. And the pretexts for this
Speaker 2: intervention was a bungled nominations process for the New South
Speaker 2: Wales local government elections last year. For whatever reason, the
Speaker 2: New South Wales Division was not able to organize the
Speaker 2: nominations for a lot of candidates, so the Liberal Party
Speaker 2: didn't actually run candidates and a lot of key local
Speaker 2: government contests and understandably there was a lot of anger
Speaker 2: over this bungled nominations process, and it did prompt the
Speaker 2: federal intervention. But I think a lot of moderates believe
Speaker 2: that the real agenda here was the Conservatives wanting to
Speaker 2: take over the New South Wales division and punish a
Speaker 2: lot of those moderates who were in influential positions. Another
Speaker 2: thing that both Abbott and Kredlin have been heavily involved
Speaker 2: in is this very nasty dispute that's taken place in
Speaker 2: Victoria between the former leader of the Victorian Liberals, John Persudo,
Speaker 2: and Moira Deeming, who's a member of the Victorian Upper House.
Speaker 6: Toty, welcome to the program. I've got a whole laundry
Speaker 6: list of stuff I want to get your view on,
Speaker 6: but I've got to get your view on Moira Deeming.
Speaker 6: I just spoke to her live in the studio.
Speaker 2: More Deeming had attended an anti trans rally in Victoria
Speaker 2: back in twenty twenty three, and John Perzudo was very
Speaker 2: critical of her for attending that rally, especially because some
Speaker 2: neo Nazis had sort of turned up in support of
Speaker 2: what this rally was all about, and he had linked
Speaker 2: Moira Deeming with this neo Nazi group and Moira Demi
Speaker 2: ended up being expelled from the Liberal Party party room.
Speaker 2: Peter as the father of three daughters.
Speaker 5: I'm utterly dismayed that a mainstream political party would sack
Speaker 5: a member of parliament for defending women's rights. And to
Speaker 5: the extent that the Liberal Party has a women's problem,
Speaker 5: it must have got much much worse by the expulsion
Speaker 5: of this brave and smart woman from its own ranks.
Speaker 2: And in response, I think at the urging of Tony
Speaker 2: Abbott and Peter Credlin, moy Redeeming sued John Persudo. She
Speaker 2: won that lawsuit. She won three hundred thousand dollars in
Speaker 2: damages and she's also won legal costs, and I think
Speaker 2: John Persuda now has to pay two point three million
Speaker 2: in legal costs, and so he's facing bankruptcy and that
Speaker 2: will mean that will have to resign his seat in
Speaker 2: Parliament if he can't raise the money. And a lot
Speaker 2: of moderates feel very angry towards Tony Abbott and Peter
Speaker 2: Kredlin for goading lawyer Deemi into taking on this lawsuit,
Speaker 2: and so there's a lot of anger about that, I think.
Speaker 1: So it seems like there's been a string of poor
Speaker 1: decisions with Tony Abbott's fingerprints on them. Tony Abbott famously
Speaker 1: lost his prominenceship a decade ago and then lost his
Speaker 1: seat in Parliament. So why does he still have so
Speaker 1: much influence within the party.
Speaker 2: This is a great question, Daniel, because how could you
Speaker 2: take someone seriously who after winning a massive majority as
Speaker 2: Tony Abbott did in the twenty thirteen election. He had
Speaker 2: I think ninety seats, he had a relatively tame crossbench,
Speaker 2: yet managed to throw away the prime ministership within I
Speaker 2: think it was two years and two days that he served,
Speaker 2: and I find it difficult to understand why anyone would
Speaker 2: take Tony Abbitt seriously as a person of any kind
Speaker 2: of political wisdom. And it wasn't just Tony Abbot managed
Speaker 2: to do it by himself. He had Peter Kredlin as
Speaker 2: his chief of staff and it is really a puzzle
Speaker 2: that these two still have any real influence in the
Speaker 2: Liberal Party. I think the reason why they've tried to
Speaker 2: hold on to a power base is one liberal put
Speaker 2: to me, It's all about revenge. It's all about Tony
Speaker 2: Abbott trying to rewrite history as to why he was
Speaker 2: dumped by his own party. It's worth remembering that it
Speaker 2: wasn't some sort of moderate uprising that saw Tony Abbott
Speaker 2: lose the leadership. It was Tony Abbott's policy decisions, you know,
Speaker 2: things like wanting to give Prince Philip a knighthood, that
Speaker 2: disastrous first budget that he brought down in twenty fourteen,
Speaker 2: which broke so many of the promises that Tony Abbott
Speaker 2: himself had made it the during the election campaign. You know,
Speaker 2: in the end, it was conservatives within the Liberal Party
Speaker 2: that decided they couldn't keep Tony Abbott on as leader
Speaker 2: or Prime Minister any longer, and it was them that
Speaker 2: got rid of him. But I think Tony Abbott believes
Speaker 2: that the moderates were to blame, and I think his
Speaker 2: goal is to try to cast them out of the party.
Speaker 2: He wants to recast the Liberal Party in his own
Speaker 2: image and justify his past leadership, and I think prove
Speaker 2: that the path that voters have already rejected is the
Speaker 2: path that the Liberals should still follow.
Speaker 1: Susan Lee is the new leader and she is a moderate.
Speaker 1: How do you expect the fact that she's in charge
Speaker 1: now to change the level of influence Tony Abbott has well.
Speaker 2: I think Susan LEAs indicated pretty clearly that she agrees
Speaker 2: that the Liberal Party has to move back towards the center.
Speaker 2: She said that the Liberal Party has to meet voters
Speaker 2: where they are. But I think she's going to have
Speaker 2: real trouble trying to limit Tony Abbot's influence because he
Speaker 2: does have such a strong grip on a lot of
Speaker 2: sections of the party. But he's kind of doing that
Speaker 2: with the help of the Rupert Murdoch empire in Australia.
Speaker 2: Tony Abbott is on the board of Fox International. He's
Speaker 2: very close to Lachlan Murdoch, who is the CEO and
Speaker 2: chairman of Fox Liberals that I spoke to last week
Speaker 2: said that Lachland takes far more active interest in Australian
Speaker 2: politics than his father ever did. And so I think
Speaker 2: anyone that threatens to deviate from the sort of Tony
Speaker 2: Abbott worldview risks getting slammed on the opinion pages of
Speaker 2: the newspages of The Australian or Unsky News. So Tony
Speaker 2: Abbitt's got a lot of kind of levers that he
Speaker 2: can pull when it comes to exerting his influence within
Speaker 2: the Liberal Party, and I think Susan Lee has got
Speaker 2: a real fight on her hands trying to push back
Speaker 2: against that. I guess the big advantage she has is
Speaker 2: she can just point to the scoreboard at the last
Speaker 2: election and show that if the Liberal Party is going
Speaker 2: to have any hope of pegging back that huge majority
Speaker 2: that Labor has at the moment, then they really do
Speaker 2: have no choice but to move back to the center.
Speaker 2: But I think Susan Lee is going to have to
Speaker 2: gear herself up for what will be a long and
Speaker 2: bruising battle.
Speaker 1: Jason, always a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you for
Speaker 1: your time.
Speaker 2: Daniel, thanks sir for having me.
Speaker 1: Also in the news today, Prome Minister Anthony Alberinezi says
Speaker 1: Israel's blockade of aid in the Gaza is an outrage,
Speaker 1: calling the Israeli government's justification for stopping critical food and
Speaker 1: medical supplies quote completely untenable.
Speaker 3: It is outrageous that there be a blockade of food
Speaker 3: and supplies to people who are in need in Gaza.
Speaker 1: Whence come as calls are growing for Australia to join
Speaker 1: the UK, France and Canada and threatening sanctions if Israel's
Speaker 1: campaign continues, and weather conditions are expected to complicate recovery
Speaker 1: efforts on the mid north coast of New South Wales
Speaker 1: as residents recover from the devastating floods that grip through
Speaker 1: their region last week. About thirty two thousand residents from
Speaker 1: fourteen communities remain isolated even as floodwaters received This has
Speaker 1: been seven am. Thanks for listening.