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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Money Puzzle. I'm your host, Julianne Sprague,

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Speaker 1: Wealth editor at The Australian, filling in for James Kirby,

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Speaker 1: who is on a well deserved break, and today we

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Speaker 1: are going to jump into something interesting that is happening

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Speaker 1: with the major banks. I don't usually offer big deals

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Speaker 1: to first home buyers, and that really is because beggars

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Speaker 1: can't be choosers. But things have shifted, things are changing,

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Speaker 1: and we'll dive into that with my colleague Wealth reporter

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Speaker 1: Anthony Keane, who has also detailed how he brought a

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Speaker 1: number of investment properties without having to hand over a

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Speaker 1: single cent. It's a clever strategy, but it did spark

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Speaker 1: plenty of commentary. People picked apart found some issues and

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Speaker 1: so we'll find out some of those with Anthony Kean. Anthony,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Money Puzzle.

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Speaker 2: Thanks julian good to be here.

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Speaker 1: It's good to have a chat about these sorts of things,

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Speaker 1: because it was interesting this week. We've sort of had

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Speaker 1: a look at what was happening in the banking sector

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Speaker 1: on the back really of this expanded first home buyer

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Speaker 1: scheme from the government. It seems that the banks is

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Speaker 1: sort of doing something unusual here where they actually are

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Speaker 1: enticing these first home buyers.

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Speaker 2: What's going on, Anthy, Yes, we're seeing a new front

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Speaker 2: breakout in the battle for business for mortgages. As you

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Speaker 2: said earlier, banks have traditionally not really given the best

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Speaker 2: deals to first home buyers because they much prefer people

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Speaker 2: with big chunks of equity, which is obviously much lower

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Speaker 2: risk for them. But with this wide expansion of the

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Speaker 2: new five percent deposit scheme where people only need to

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Speaker 2: five percent deposit to buy their first home and the

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Speaker 2: government will guarantee the other fifteen percent, which helps people

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Speaker 2: avoid having to pay that expensive lender's mortgage insurance. So

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Speaker 2: you're still paying a twenty percent positively for your home,

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Speaker 2: but you've only got to stump up five percent the

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Speaker 2: government guarantees the other fifteen So that's been expanded dramatically,

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Speaker 2: And what the experts are seeing now is there's a

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Speaker 2: lot more deals coming out for first home buyers, quite

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Speaker 2: a few, and the scheme onely used to be a

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Speaker 2: handful of members. Now I think it's about thirty eight

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Speaker 2: almost forty different lenders in this scheme, and a large

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Speaker 2: majority of them are offering good interest rates below five

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Speaker 2: point five percent, and there's even a couple that are

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Speaker 2: four point nine nine percent first home buyer rates. So

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Speaker 2: that is certainly a good deal for first home buyers who,

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Speaker 2: as we said earlier now do not need to save

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Speaker 2: as much to get a foot in the door of

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Speaker 2: the housing market.

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Speaker 1: What are the other deals that they're offering, I mean

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Speaker 1: attractive interest rates. That sounds pretty good, but it seems

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Speaker 1: that they are jostling for market share at this end

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Speaker 1: of the market, which is interesting. What are they trying

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Speaker 1: to tempt people with.

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Speaker 2: There are still a few cash back offers, and we

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Speaker 2: saw these really boom a year or so ago, and

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Speaker 2: some of the mortgage experts are telling me now they've

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Speaker 2: been dwindling back a little bit, but there's still a few.

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Speaker 2: And they are where you you take out a mortgage

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Speaker 2: and the lander will give you anything between generally two

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Speaker 2: thousand to four thousand dollars cash back as a bonus

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Speaker 2: for taking out a mortgage with a Commonwealth bank very

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Speaker 2: recently introduced. Instead of a cash back, they're giving you

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Speaker 2: three hundred thousand frequent fly points three thousand, yeah, which

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Speaker 2: is equivalent to depending on how you spend those points,

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Speaker 2: it's equivalent of thousands of dollars of benefits.

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Speaker 1: So and do you know so is that if you

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Speaker 1: do the deal direct with the bank. I'm wondering what's

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Speaker 1: happening in.

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Speaker 2: Yes, doors and the experts were telling us that so

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Speaker 2: they can avoid them having to pay mortgage broker fees.

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Speaker 2: It was through with their digit home loans, their direct

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Speaker 2: home loan. So yes, they can offer that because they're

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Speaker 2: not having to pay big trailing commissions and things to

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Speaker 2: mortgage brokes.

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Speaker 1: But what would the advice be then, though, to a

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Speaker 1: first home buyer. Should they be seeing a mortgage broadcast

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Speaker 1: so they have a view of the overall market rather

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Speaker 1: than get lured in by the chance of three hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand frequent firepoints.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and mortgage brokers are very handy for first home buyers.

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Speaker 2: The alterna is, if you don't want to do that channel,

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Speaker 2: you can do all of the homework and the research yourself.

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Speaker 2: But that is difficult. That can be quite difficult and

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Speaker 2: quite time consuming.

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Speaker 1: Did you do that?

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Speaker 2: I think the first they're the first two mortgages I

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Speaker 2: got in. This was decades ago. Now, both were three

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Speaker 2: mortgage brokers and it was only after being in the

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Speaker 2: market for a while, and for further sort of loans

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Speaker 2: or investment loans, we would co direct through your bank

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Speaker 2: because you've got that relationship. But yeah, don't just automatically

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Speaker 2: say I'm bank with this big four bank and I'm

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Speaker 2: going to put my mortgage with them, because quite often

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Speaker 2: the big four banks they still have the majority of

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Speaker 2: home loans in Australia where they also do not up

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Speaker 2: with the best deals when it comes to interest rates.

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Speaker 2: And one of the things experts say with all these points,

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Speaker 2: frequent flyer points or cash backs, the most important thing,

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Speaker 2: the biggest benefit you're going to get is a sharp

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Speaker 2: and low interest rate. Yeah, you go over it, all

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Speaker 2: the bells and whistles. Just the lower the interest rate,

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Speaker 2: the more you're going to save over many, many years.

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Speaker 1: It makes perfect sense. The lower the interest rate, the

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Speaker 1: better off you're going to be. And then hopefully as

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Speaker 1: the years go by, you can go back to the

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Speaker 1: bank and press them again and say you can lower

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Speaker 1: my rate, thank you very much. I was wondering about

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Speaker 1: this in that this is unusual that they are going

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Speaker 1: after the first home buyer market. As I said earlier,

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Speaker 1: the biggest gump be choosers. And so you want to

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Speaker 1: get in. This is the loan on offer for you.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just not entirely sure what that might mean

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Speaker 1: for the rest of us. So sorry to all the

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Speaker 1: first time buyers out there, And as I now worry

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Speaker 1: about what's the interest rate for me? But does the bank?

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Speaker 1: Do the banks try and claw it back elsewhere?

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's just these finely tuned machines that

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Speaker 2: they're running. Whether they're they're changing their savings rates, they're

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Speaker 2: changing them all this rates. They're tweaking fixed and variable

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Speaker 2: rates all of the time. But what you could do,

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Speaker 2: as if you're non first time by, if you're seeing

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Speaker 2: your bank's offering a great deal for fair time by,

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Speaker 2: you could go and say, hey, look, I'm by a

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Speaker 2: much lower risk proposition than someone who's got fucks deposit.

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Speaker 2: I've got all these equity in my home, and you

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Speaker 2: can argue that you should get a better deal, And

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Speaker 2: if you do your own research, you can threaten to

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Speaker 2: leave if you have to. There are there can be

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Speaker 2: benefits for switch. We tend to stay sticky to our

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Speaker 2: banks and our mortgage providers just because we think it's

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Speaker 2: such a big hassle to move. But look, if the

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Speaker 2: big savings are there. There's no reason why you shouldn't.

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Speaker 2: You are their customer and they should be looking after you.

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Speaker 2: So it's really Yeah, it.

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Speaker 1: Is interesting, isn't it. With banking you sort of do

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Speaker 1: stay there. I think there was a recent story too

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Speaker 1: on transaction accounts, which I quite love. There was a

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Speaker 1: statistic in that. So was it thirty percent? Thirty percent

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Speaker 1: of Australians have had the same transaction account for twenty

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Speaker 1: years or more.

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Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, and I'm among that too. So have various

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Speaker 2: other accounts that come on, come and go. But there

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Speaker 2: that original one. It's great, isn't it. You look at it,

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Speaker 2: it's basically the bank brands that no longer exists anymore,

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Speaker 2: or where you lived when you were in your l

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Speaker 2: eighteen say, it's very interesting.

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Speaker 1: But the reason but transaction accounts have changed over time.

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Speaker 1: There used to be quite nice that the banks used

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Speaker 1: to want to have your business and helped you out.

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Speaker 1: Now it's the other way around. Whe If you don't

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Speaker 1: have a certain amount of minimum money in the account

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Speaker 1: every month, I'll slug your fee. There's all these sorts

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Speaker 1: of little things you need to check out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a few, a few slug fees if you're not

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Speaker 2: using them to transact with if you've forgot your wage

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Speaker 2: going into them, you can be and these are generated

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Speaker 2: the big a few of the big four banks. If

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Speaker 2: you're not if your wage isn't going into them, I

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Speaker 2: think it's like a minimum of three or five four

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars a month going in. If you haven't got

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Speaker 2: their money going in, then they can hit you with

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Speaker 2: a fee. They wave those fees otherwise, and interest rates

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Speaker 2: on transaction accounts on almost all of them zero or

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Speaker 2: zero point one percent.

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Speaker 1: So honestly, if I've got a fee for keeping my

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Speaker 1: money in the bank, I would be a happy person

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Speaker 1: that day. The last coming out of my mouth would

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Speaker 1: be fairly significant. We've gone down a different tekend. Let's

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Speaker 1: get back to the housing market, mortgages, and we did

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Speaker 1: hear the Reserve Bank spell out of this. Interest rates

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Speaker 1: are unlikely to be falling this year. That we've had

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Speaker 1: three cuts this year. Most economists are ruling out a

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Speaker 1: cup by the end of the year. So rates are

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Speaker 1: on hold for the foreseeable future. So what's the best

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Speaker 1: thing we can do now?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of the big bank economists have come

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Speaker 2: out and changing and said that, Yeah, all the money

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Speaker 2: was on our Melbourne Cup Day rate cut up until

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Speaker 2: some recent inflation triggers. And then we had the Reserve

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Speaker 2: Bank holding at its October meeting and some sort of

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Speaker 2: pretty bleak commentary if you're hoping for rate cut because

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Speaker 2: we've only had three and now no one seems to

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Speaker 2: know when the next one will come or if we

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Speaker 2: will get one. So, I mean, that's a bit of

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Speaker 2: a shock for borrowers who had thirteen rate interest rate

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Speaker 2: rises between sort of May twenty two and a year

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Speaker 2: or so ago, and those thirteen rises pushed it. On

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Speaker 2: a six hundred thousand mortgage, it pushed the repayments up

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Speaker 2: from two and a half thousand dollars to almost four

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars a month, So it was three nine to

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Speaker 2: eighty four. Now that's come down with our rate cats

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Speaker 2: this year to three thousand, seven hundred and nine dollars

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Speaker 2: a month.

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Speaker 1: It's still not two and a half grand. So it

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Speaker 1: was to a half ground before they started, right, So

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Speaker 1: we're talking on an average six hundred.

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Speaker 2: Thousand, six hundred thousand dollars Loane, Yeah, that's right, And.

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Speaker 1: So it was before the interest strates started to climb upwards.

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Speaker 1: It was roughly about two and a half thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: for the repayment at four, pick it at four and

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Speaker 1: that pretty much under three seven.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, a long way to go, but we

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Speaker 2: just don't know. And the issue is with inflation. I

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Speaker 2: think the key for whether the Reserve Band does act

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Speaker 2: on Melbourne Cup Day will be I think we've got

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Speaker 2: some inflation, the official inflation data out and quarterly stuff

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Speaker 2: comes down I think later when they lead up to

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Speaker 2: that meeting.

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Speaker 1: But also they will be keeping a keen eye on

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Speaker 1: what's happening in the housing market, won't they, Because the

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Speaker 1: Reserve Bank can only do so much. There is inflation.

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Speaker 1: They are trying to keep within its target bound two

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Speaker 1: to three percent. They really don't want to have property

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Speaker 1: markets hit a bubble. And there's all of this commentary

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Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks that this expanded first home

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Speaker 1: by a scheme is going to bring forward demand. It's

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Speaker 1: going to put people into that first home buy market

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Speaker 1: and for those people who desperately want to own their

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Speaker 1: own home as they should, they want to sort of

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Speaker 1: jump in there. But they're jumping in as investors can

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Speaker 1: see what might happen from this first home by a

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Speaker 1: scheme that is, prices will go up, and there's a

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Speaker 1: bit of a frenzy on at the moment. And the last

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Speaker 1: thing the RBA wants to go and do is cut

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Speaker 1: interest rates to then feed this.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that's right. They're really sort of stuck because

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Speaker 2: the issues with soaring house prices. The two big issues

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Speaker 2: that we see behind the strugg house price growth is

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Speaker 2: lack of building enough supply and there's not enough houses

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Speaker 2: being built for the people here. And we keep bringing

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Speaker 2: in a lot more hundreds of thousands of new people

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Speaker 2: every year, which is even exacerbating that. Now immigration, it's great,

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Speaker 2: it's great to be in a multicultural sort of country,

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Speaker 2: but you've sort of got to build the roofs over

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Speaker 2: the heads of the people that are coming in. Otherwise,

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Speaker 2: what happens is not enough supply for the rising demand

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Speaker 2: out there, and that pushes that prices.

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Speaker 1: Which the governor pointed out right Michelle Bullerker is that's

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Speaker 1: going to be no meaningful impact on the supply front

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Speaker 1: from all of these government policies. RBA governor is saying, actually,

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Speaker 1: there's going to be no meaningful impact on supply and

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Speaker 1: we are throwing more demand at the situation. As you said,

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Speaker 1: immigration numbers, plus we're going to stimulate the first home

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Speaker 1: buy out market. But here's what I reckon. I reckon

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Speaker 1: that the politicians know it and they don't mind it.

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Speaker 1: Because did you see the results of the News poll

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Speaker 1: so out on Monday, and it shows more Australians want

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Speaker 1: house prices to increase over the next three years compared

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Speaker 1: to staying the same or decreasing. Now, that is because

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Speaker 1: there's a hell of a lot of us that have homes.

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Speaker 1: We feel better about it when home prices rise. And

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Speaker 1: what governments tend to do is and if they can

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Speaker 1: be seen to be helping first home buyers but it

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Speaker 1: helps everyone else out in the market too, well, then

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Speaker 1: hey why not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So if they see it as a win win,

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Speaker 2: you're right, it's.

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Speaker 1: I've got to be honest and say, it's just all

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Speaker 1: it's going to do is the house prices go up.

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Speaker 1: The person selling that home wins because the house price

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Speaker 1: went up. Yes, the government can pat themselves on the

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Speaker 1: back and say they help first home buyers get in,

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Speaker 1: but very quickly that incentive got eroded away and it

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Speaker 1: was actually the existing property owner that gets the wire share.

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Speaker 2: Of that benefit, and those first home buyers have got

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Speaker 2: even bigger mortgages to pay off over the life of

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Speaker 2: the loan, while the existing occupies and the existing investors

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Speaker 2: have just got ossets have just gone up further in value.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, exactly right. It's little unfortunate, isn't it that

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Speaker 2: if we just see these this focus on grabbing votes

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Speaker 2: more so, and it is dressed up at something, Oh,

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Speaker 2: we're looking after the first home buyer, but we're actually

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Speaker 2: making it more expensive for the third home buyer, and

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Speaker 2: they've got much bigger mortgages to pay off. And no,

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Speaker 2: they don't have their twenty percent deposit. Really, they're only

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Speaker 2: having to deal with a five percent deposit.

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Speaker 1: So no, so begs the question what happens with tax

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Speaker 1: phase if this all turns Yeah, yeah, you know, if

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Speaker 1: the market sort of if there is a bubble that

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Speaker 1: some expects are warning that there is a potential bubble

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Speaker 1: forming in that lower end of the market. So if

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Speaker 1: it all ends in tears, if we've got lots of

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Speaker 1: people sitting there on negative equity, the government's guaranteeing schemes,

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Speaker 1: you can see the risks. Yes, yeah, exactly, Okay, right

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Speaker 1: plenty to unpack. Anthony. You also details your investment property portfolio.

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Speaker 1: So on the one hand, we have an incentive scheme

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Speaker 1: now for first home buyers to get into the market.

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Speaker 1: Those first home buyers are competing with investors in the

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Speaker 1: market because all the signs point to property right prices

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Speaker 1: going up over the next twelve to twenty four months.

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Speaker 1: When we come back, I want to have a chat

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Speaker 1: to you about your strategy, how you got into investment properties,

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Speaker 1: how you didn't hand over a single cent to do so,

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Speaker 1: but some of the risks involved and what investors in

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Speaker 1: particular need to be mindful of. We'll have that chat

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Speaker 1: when they come back. Well, welcome back to the Money Puzzle.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Julianne Sprague, filling in for James Kirby,

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Speaker 1: who is on leave. Back with you next week, though

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Speaker 1: we can't wait to have him back. In the meantime,

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Speaker 1: we are chatting property with wealth reporter at The Australian,

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Speaker 1: Anthony Keane. We've had a chat about the mortgage wars

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Speaker 1: that have sparked off the back of the government's expanded

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Speaker 1: home by a scheme. We want to have a chat

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Speaker 1: though about investment properties. If you want to set up

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Speaker 1: an investment property portfolio, how you can go about it.

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Speaker 1: Anthony recently wrote a piece for The Australian and it

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Speaker 1: detailed his journey how he got an investment property portfolio

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Speaker 1: and he did it or without handing over a single cent.

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Speaker 1: And I love these types of strategies. I don't like

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Speaker 1: handing over a single cent. Well, you know, it depends

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Speaker 1: what it's for. I'll be perfectly honest. I do ask

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Speaker 1: my husband. I can hand over many cents for many things.

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Speaker 1: But let's talk about how Anthony did this with investment property.

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Speaker 1: Is Anthony, let's have a chat about how you got

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Speaker 1: your first investment property? Why did you want to get

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Speaker 1: an investment property? Before we start getting into the strategy.

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Speaker 2: Okay, why And bear in mind this was twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five years ago, so it was a while ago,

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Speaker 2: but it still works today. I had read, as many

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Speaker 2: people did, the best selling by Robert Kiyosaki, Rich Dad,

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Speaker 2: Poor Dad, which was basically just about using leave read

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Speaker 2: using other people's money, taking calculated risks, building wealth, because

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Speaker 2: no one's going to build it for you if you

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Speaker 2: don't take proactive steps in improving your life financially.

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Speaker 1: Did you have kids at this point, like the rich

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Speaker 1: dad poor thing when you're looking for books about fatherhood

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Speaker 1: and this is what you stumbled.

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Speaker 2: Upoint No, I no, this was probably a coupul of

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Speaker 2: years before the kids came along. And I think that

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Speaker 2: I would have been a lot more aggressive if we

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Speaker 2: didn't have children. I think when the children came along,

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Speaker 2: you just with your borrowing strategies, you're a lot more

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Speaker 2: conservative than you could otherwise be because you're not only

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Speaker 2: risking your part livelihood, but you're risking the kid's future

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Speaker 2: if it all goes belly up. So I think that yeah,

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Speaker 2: once the kids came along, we settled down a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Original plans to buy a property every few years sort

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Speaker 2: of got extended a little bit. And also it depended.

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Speaker 2: It depends on the growth of the property. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the key thing when buying real estate without handing over

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Speaker 2: cent is to have your own home, and you don't

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Speaker 2: have to have it paid off. You've just got to

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Speaker 2: have your own home with equity in it, and enough

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Speaker 2: equity to allow you to borrow against that equity. Is

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Speaker 2: a difference between the value of the home and what

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Speaker 2: you are on the mortgage.

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Speaker 1: But let's talk about that point. So, okay, this strategy

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Speaker 1: works that not handing over a cent is you have

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Speaker 1: your own home, So you've bought your own home, and

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Speaker 1: let's like, for argument sake, so you've diligently be paying

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Speaker 1: more than the minimum repayment for your mortgage. Every case

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Speaker 1: will be different, and we should stress that we're not

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Speaker 1: providing financial advice in this podcast. We are just talking

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Speaker 1: about different tips and strategies and things we've seen in

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Speaker 1: the market. But is for you in particular, and based

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Speaker 1: on the reading that you have done, is there sort

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Speaker 1: of a level of equity where you feel that this

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Speaker 1: is the time that you can go and I want

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Speaker 1: to say double down, but where you can go and

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Speaker 1: take all more debt.

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Speaker 2: I think it's at least sort of I mean, for me,

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Speaker 2: it was more having at least sort of thirty percent

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Speaker 2: equity in the home because obviously you're borrowing. And just

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Speaker 2: like we spoke earlier about like that the first home

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Speaker 2: buy is traditionally you buy a lower you have a

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Speaker 2: twenty percent deposit for it. Instead of paying cash for

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Speaker 2: an investment property, you're using the equity that you've got

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Speaker 2: in your own home. So let's say, and we'll use

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Speaker 2: really around numbers and median house prices heading up towards

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Speaker 2: a million. Now, unfortunately they were nowhere near that when

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Speaker 2: I've started twenty odd years ago. But if you've got

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Speaker 2: a million dollar house and you've got say forty percent

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Speaker 2: equity in that, so you've that means your loan might

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Speaker 2: be six hundred thousand dollars, and then you bought another

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Speaker 2: million dollar house on that, just paying for the whole amount.

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Speaker 2: And then you've got the too, you've got like two

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Speaker 2: million dollars of property and you've got one point one

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Speaker 2: point well I say one point four, Yeah, so basically

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Speaker 2: have four hundred equity, but then that's divided between two houses,

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Speaker 2: so that you've got twenty percent equity in that total

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Speaker 2: in each of those houses. So you're still total portfolio

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Speaker 2: is still better than that that twenty percent mark. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: so does that make sense?

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Speaker 1: It makes sense. So if you've got like it's a

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Speaker 1: minimum of thirty percent equity, and we say that because

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Speaker 1: you have to be alive the fact that markets may

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Speaker 1: not keep going up, they may go the other way around,

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Speaker 1: and you don't want to be caught.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right, And markets can fall, and we've seen that.

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Speaker 2: We've seen that in some markets in Australia, and I

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Speaker 2: think in the past I did. I believe I would

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Speaker 2: have paid lenders mortgage insurance for one of my mortgages,

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Speaker 2: previous mortgages in the past. Now it's sort of you

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Speaker 2: avoid that, but I pay that in the past. It's

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Speaker 2: become a lot more expensive as house prices have gone

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Speaker 2: up as well in the last decade or so, so

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Speaker 2: you might want As if we said earlier, it really

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Speaker 2: depends on the amount that you've got and also what

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Speaker 2: you're comfortable with. You've got to be comfortable on taking

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Speaker 2: on debt, You've got to be comfortable with the property

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Speaker 2: investments that you may go nowhere for ten years, and

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Speaker 2: I've written that out. I've had nine or ten years

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Speaker 2: where I've effectively been paying interest on a loan with

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Speaker 2: the help of tenants, paying off off, paying interest towards that,

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Speaker 2: but zero capital growth for a decade. But then after

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Speaker 2: that decade, as we've seen in quite a few states

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Speaker 2: in the last five year five or so years, house

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Speaker 2: price is double. I've always said, you've only got to

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Speaker 2: really ride your real estate through two booms and then

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Speaker 2: you're set for the rest of your life. The first

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Speaker 2: one can get you very comfortable and gives you a

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Speaker 2: position to expand more by another investment property or two.

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Speaker 2: And the second one. When you've got those multiple properties

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Speaker 2: and they're all increasing in value over that sort of

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Speaker 2: boom period, that's how you that's how you grow the

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Speaker 2: real wealth from real estate.

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Speaker 1: And do you use the same metrics. So if you've

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Speaker 1: got the first so you put your to on the water,

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Speaker 1: get your first investment property, and then wait for thirty

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Speaker 1: percent equity on that investment property and then go again,

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Speaker 1: how do you build.

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Speaker 2: A pretty much and I know it, and I know

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Speaker 2: it was probably more specifically for me, it's probably simple.

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Speaker 2: If you say, you've got sort of a forty percent

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Speaker 2: to start with, so you've got it because they're obviously

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Speaker 2: you're you. Really it's you working with your lenders a

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Speaker 2: lot because they're the one. Yeah, and look, I think

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Speaker 2: that's very good. The one thing you don't want to

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Speaker 2: do is pay a way to say I'm going to

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Speaker 2: not buy an investment property until I've paid my own

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Speaker 2: home off, because that's twenty years. You are potentially sitting

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Speaker 2: out of the market where you've only got one price

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Speaker 2: one house price, it's rising in value. So when you

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Speaker 2: have multipler going up, every investment property owner in or

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Speaker 2: even in every property owner in states like wa Queensland,

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Speaker 2: South Australia, in the last five or so years since

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Speaker 2: the pandemic has seen maybe ninety hundred percent growth in

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Speaker 2: their house. So if you've got one one medium house

438
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 2: that was five hundred thousand worth, say five hundred thousand

439
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 2: dollars in those states five years ago, it's now up

440
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 2: towards heading up towards a minion, you've made close to

441
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 2: half a million. If you had another investment property then

442
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,400
Speaker 2: at the same time, then you've made double that. You've

443
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 2: had two investment properties, you've made you've just multiplied your gain.

444
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 2: And the thing is with investment property loans, your you

445
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 2: often do them interest only at least for the first

446
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 2: five or ten years, so it's lower payments. You've also

447
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 2: got tenants that will help you cover the mortgage of payments.

448
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 2: A lot of property investors found it really tough in

449
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 2: sort of since that April May twenty twenty two when

450
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,439
Speaker 2: we had those thirteen rate rises, because they weren't putting

451
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 2: as we sort of saw before. How much the monthly

452
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,479
Speaker 2: your payments got up landlords of what we're putting out rants,

453
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 2: but nowhere near at that sort of rate, not a

454
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 2: I mean, repayments went up sixty percent in a couple

455
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 2: of years, and I don't think you would have.

456
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,479
Speaker 1: Been as well as the equity component as well as

457
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 1: making sure you've got a good enough buffer before you

458
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 1: go in and jump into an investment properly. I mean

459
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 1: you must be having to work out some numbers year

460
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: to work out should interest rates rise by I don't know,

461
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,439
Speaker 1: look to be fair, if I was doing it, I'm

462
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 1: not sure I would have put thirteen in the model.

463
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: But at least if you in for some.

464
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right overstretch. Well, what we have with lenders

465
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 2: are automatically putting it into their model at a three

466
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 2: percent higher interest rate than what you're currently paying. So

467
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 2: if you're currently paying five and a half percent, which

468
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: is around the rate sort of today for a loan investment,

469
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 2: moans might be a bit closer to six, but that's

470
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,679
Speaker 2: eight and a half nine percent. The lender's factoring in

471
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 2: that you can afford to pay. They won't lend you

472
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 2: the money otherwise, so and they've become tougher.

473
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 1: I know you say that, but I remember it wasn't

474
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 1: this property. Maybe it's property. I remember being told by

475
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 1: our broker how much money we could buy a property for,

476
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 1: and I laughed at this particular broker's face. I so

477
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: you've got to be joking me. How on earth? I

478
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: know what my position is, I know what my financial

479
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 1: position is. How on earth does the bank think they

480
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: can loan me that much money? Is it? This particular

481
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: institution just wants to know that you have. It was

482
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: something like twenty dollars in your bank account the end

483
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: of the week. They aren't really care that you're going

484
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: to have to eat boiled rice for dinner every night. Yes,

485
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 1: I just feel I get where you're coming from.

486
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 2: Bo.

487
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: I feel like i'd want to add different numbers to

488
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 1: what the banks are saying. And I reckon, Anthony, I reckon.

489
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: I'm not the only person to have sort of had

490
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: a couple of issues with the strategy. And it's not

491
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 1: that I don't believe that what you're doing is right

492
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: and sound, and I wish that I had perhaps done

493
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: something similar, maybe ten, ten, fifteen years ago. But a

494
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 1: few readers had some questions about this, including about tenants.

495
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: There's all these other things that you've got to navigate.

496
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: When we come back, I'm going to put some of

497
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: those comments to you and see whether you thought about

498
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: this before you bought the investment properties, or maybe what

499
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 1: you experience has been it should been a landlord, what

500
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: it's like being a landlord in Australia. We will have

501
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 1: that chat when we come back. Welcome back to the

502
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: money Puzzle. I am Julian Sprague, Welsh Editor The Australian.

503
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 1: I am joined by my colleague Wells reporter Anthony Keane.

504
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: We're having a chat about his investment property portfolio. Very clever.

505
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: Anthony started to build a portfolio after reading the book

506
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: Rich Dad poured ad and decided he had to build

507
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: wealth for himself. No one was going to get in

508
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: there and do it for him. Anthony. We've chatted about

509
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: the equity component. So you got your equity in your

510
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: own home, go and get the investment portfolio. You now

511
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: have a few. When you detailed this strategy for The Australian,

512
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 1: there was some feedback, lots of people patting on the

513
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: back done some similar things that there was a few

514
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 1: that had not issues. They're just curious. I reckon Anthony

515
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 1: about how this really can work in real life now

516
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: consens the author does not tell some people about when

517
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: things go wrong. So when it goes bust, for instance,

518
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,360
Speaker 1: now concess the global financial crisis, that could occur, inflation,

519
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: interest rate rises. What about Paul keating when the interest

520
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: rates went to seventeen percent and you get financially stressed.

521
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: Tenants may damage rented houses and house prices can go backwards.

522
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 1: So he's pointing out that while there are benefits to

523
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: the strategy, and when things are going well, everyone seems

524
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 1: to be a genius, but things can go the other way.

525
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: So did you consider some of these things. Did you

526
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: think about tenants and what if they don't pay their

527
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 1: rent or what if they damage your property? What's your

528
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 1: experience been exactly?

529
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 2: The old Tenants from Hell is a real worry for

530
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 2: a lot of landlords. And I have colleagues who have

531
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 2: gone investment and I deliver. It's always a risk, it's

532
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 2: always going to happen. To protect yourself against that, you

533
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 2: have land ord insurance which covers against damage by tenants.

534
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 2: You can't treat an investment property as your own home.

535
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 2: If you do get a bad tenant who doesn't pay,

536
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 2: or skips through, or damages or cans of room into

537
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 2: a drug lab or something. You have insurance to cover

538
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 2: that to cover those losses. You treat it as a

539
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 2: business asset arms length. You don't worry about it.

540
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: Have you ever had to use it?

541
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 2: No, I've been really fortunate that we haven't, and my

542
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 2: strategy personally and it has Others have done much better

543
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: than I have with different strategies. But I always target

544
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 2: to the median price sort of medium price of a

545
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 2: housing market in a particular city that you're looking at. Basically,

546
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 2: the belief behind that was that's where the vast majority

547
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 2: of the properties are and price points and people who

548
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 2: can afford that. Colleagues have gone to the really lower

549
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 2: end where they will pay. They'll buy multiple properties for

550
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: half the value of what the medium price is. That's

551
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 2: generally more lower socioeconomic areas. Generally you've got more tenant issues. Likewise,

552
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 2: others might have bought. Investors might have targeted more expensive

553
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 2: real estate, which is great when you get capital growth

554
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 2: because you get bigger gains, you've got a bigger starting point,

555
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 2: but also after and it's harder because you've been got

556
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 2: to stump up more of the of the repayments because

557
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 2: the tenants sort of the tenant's rent doesn't cover that.

558
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 2: So I found around the medium price has always been

559
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: quite good. Even with these rate rises we've had in

560
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 2: recent years, rents covered a vast majority of your mortgage costs.

561
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 2: So the tenants from hell, yes it's a worried, have insurance.

562
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 2: Don't buy stuff in really crappy areas. That's the rule

563
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 2: there as far as the rate rise goes that we

564
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 2: just had. Yet you can always worry about a seventeen

565
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: percent interest rates, but we just went up to around

566
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 2: sort of four and a half percent in recent years

567
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 2: and it almost destroyed like people that was going from

568
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 2: that ultra low level. So given that everyone's paying an

569
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: extra sort of fifteen hundred dollars a month on a

570
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 2: typical loan compared to a few years ago, people can

571
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 2: only go so far. So you've just got to believe

572
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 2: that you've got the finances, and it's really hard if

573
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 2: you're on a single income as well. I would imagine

574
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 2: that I've interviewed quite a few young invests does that

575
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 2: have had a lot of success and they've bought multiple properties.

576
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 2: Think good on them. That's excellent. Probably they haven't had

577
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 2: kids yet, so they don't have that extra conservative side

578
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 2: that comes in. They've often brought in regional areas, but

579
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 2: they've done their homework and board in regional areas where

580
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 2: prices a cheaper, but there's a potential for growth there

581
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: because it's just they've got the growth that way. So

582
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 2: I don't worry about interest rates going up a lot.

583
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 2: But I've been fortunate to be in a duel income

584
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 2: sort of household for the last twenty odd years as well.

585
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: So are you good at picking talents as well? We

586
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: don't presume you outsourced.

587
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 2: Leave it up to the experts. Yeah, Originally I started

588
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 2: doing on myself. We would do it our own, we

589
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: would rent our own. But I think maybe ten to

590
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 2: fifteen years ago, just thought, you know what, get a

591
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 2: property manager. It's tax deductive border feed that you paid in.

592
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 2: They do the screening, they do that, they do everything.

593
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 2: If there's an issue, they've got the tradesman on hand.

594
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 2: So I was anti property manager for probably five or

595
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 2: so years and been pro property manager for fifteen or

596
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 2: so years. And there's been issues. We've had one place,

597
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 2: it's had multiple plumbing explosions. And I really feel for

598
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 2: the tenants, and it was seen bot some dodgy workmanship

599
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 2: and the few issues with the property manager there. But

600
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 2: it's sort of that's been vastly offset by the capital

601
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 2: growth of that place is delivered over the last five

602
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 2: or seven years.

603
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,239
Speaker 1: So this is another component, isn't it that you do

604
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: want to put some cash away for those events where

605
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: you have to fix up your property. And I say

606
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: this is because I have been a landlord at one

607
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,959
Speaker 1: point in time. I know I don't strike you at

608
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: the landlord type. But when I moved to Sydney, we

609
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: rented our place out and we had the most fantastic tenants,

610
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: but they made our garden really good. When we moved

611
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: back into the property, I'm thinking I need to get

612
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: them back in a few months because I've managed to

613
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: sort of kill it off. But that were terrific. But

614
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: I do remember within the first few weeks of anning

615
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: in Sydney that the whole water system blew up, but

616
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: it just working. There was something else with you. We've

617
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: never had issues with this property, and then within a

618
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: few months, all of a sudden, we're out for a

619
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: few thousand dollars replaced in this sun.

620
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 2: And it happens. That's the thing we had. In the

621
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 2: last twelve months two years, we've had roofing issues on

622
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 2: two a couple of older properties, and I think ten

623
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 2: thousand dollars or more per property. We're just fortunate that

624
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 2: the kids had just finished school just before then, so

625
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 2: we're and the kids. So you're right. When you do

626
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 2: invest you've got multiple chances of having issues. Insurance won't

627
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 2: cover maintenance and that sort of thing. It will cover

628
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 2: damage by tenants, It will probably cover, depending where you are,

629
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 2: storm damage or someone driving a car through the living room,

630
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff, but it won't cover just leaking

631
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 2: roofs that need to be repaired and that sort of thing.

632
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 2: So you do you need to have financial buffers. You

633
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 2: need to have an income, you need to have You

634
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 2: don't necessarily need to have cash fund sitting away. You

635
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 2: literally just have equity that you're that were able to

636
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 2: draw on either your existing home or that investment property,

637
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 2: or it's just anyone who's got mortgages. I firmly believe

638
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 2: doesn't need to just have cash sitting in the bank,

639
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 2: as long as you've got the financial firepower to cover

640
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 2: those unexpected costs through equity, through a morgage of set

641
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 2: account through alone redraw facility. We've drawn back on redraw

642
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: facilities multiple types to cover various expenses like that.

643
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: Final one for you. Given what we know about markets

644
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: at the moment, so things are feeling hot, We've got

645
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: the expanded first one bias scheme. There are warnings that

646
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: there is potentially a bubble forming, but there are lots

647
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: of investors racing in. They can see that there is

648
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: some money to be made in this market. Would you

649
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: buy an investment property right now.

650
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 2: On the spot, Yes, I would certainly look at it,

651
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: although the options have dwindled in recent times. I would have.

652
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 2: I really wanted to buy in in Wa It would

653
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 2: have been fantastic, but missed the boat by a few

654
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 2: years there. The prices there have gone bananas, as they

655
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 2: have in Queensland, and I've been looking at potentially Melbourne.

656
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: But the stuff from reading there on all the different

657
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 2: taxes and prices struggling there is sort of making me

658
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 2: sort of worry a bit. So I and I've written

659
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 2: a column about this as well. If I was to

660
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 2: buy another one, I would still look towards that neck

661
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 2: of the woods, but I would want to be a

662
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 2: lot more educated about the potential bit falls and issues

663
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 2: that can arise, and taxes and anti investor rules and things.

664
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 2: So I really believe you've got to be in the market.

665
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 2: You've got to be in there to win it. Firstly,

666
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 2: get to your own home. Some people are buying investments first,

667
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 2: but you still want to aim for your own home

668
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 2: at some time because it is the biggest tax free

669
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 2: investment anyone is going to own. No capital gains tax

670
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 2: on your own home. It's just that it beats shares,

671
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 2: it beats everything from that, and it's a security roof

672
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 2: over your head, security of that. So I would look

673
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 2: at it, and I will be looking at it in

674
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: the next six to twelve months. I just don't know

675
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 2: how the homework's going to go and whether the numbers

676
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 2: will stack up, especially with this new potential first home

677
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 2: buyer boom that we are now sort of seeing created

678
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 2: by this government.

679
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 1: Well, we might check in with you in a few

680
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: months time see how the mass is going. Anthony Jane,

681
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: it is always a pleasure. Thank you very much for

682
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 1: joining us on the money puzzle.

683
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 2: Thanks Julian, And.

684
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,919
Speaker 1: As Anthony mentioned, he's written a lot about this issue.

685
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: So if you want to see some of those articles,

686
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,240
Speaker 1: you can go to the Australian dot com dot au

687
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: slash Wealth. You can subscribe and get all these insights

688
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,879
Speaker 1: into Welsh building strategies. And if you want to reach

689
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: us here at the Money Puzzle you can send us

690
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: an email The Money Puzzle at the Australian dot com

691
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: dot au. Thanks very much for listening and we will

692
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: be back with another episode on Friday, and James Kirby

693
00:34:54,760 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: will be back next week. The Plan sh