Speaker 1: This is part two of a two part episode. If
Speaker 1: you haven't already, you can go back and listen to
Speaker 1: Victoria's historic treaty that's in your feed now. Indigenous leaders
Speaker 1: across the country have welcomed Victoria's first Treaty. The legislation
Speaker 1: will enshrine a democratically elected body for First peoples called
Speaker 1: Gillingwall that will be consulted on laws and policies affecting
Speaker 1: Indigenous communities and now there are calls for other states
Speaker 1: and territories to use the Victorian example as a model
Speaker 1: to establish their own treaties. But there's also predictably pushback,
Speaker 1: with critics calling it costly and divisive in claims that
Speaker 1: echo the voice debate, and state and territory leaders across
Speaker 1: the country are walking away from previous promises and commitments. Today,
Speaker 1: writer and seven AM co host Daniel James, who was
Speaker 1: also one of the authors of the europe Commission, reports
Speaker 1: on whether Victoria's treaty marks a turning point or an anomaly.
Speaker 1: Daniel Australia's first Treaty was introduced into parliament this week
Speaker 1: in Victoria. How significant is this moment?
Speaker 2: Well, it's the only time in the history of the
Speaker 2: entire country that our treaty has been introduced into a
Speaker 2: state or federal parliament. It has been in the back
Speaker 2: of decades of work, but in a formal sense, in
Speaker 2: terms of the actual process of getting this treaty to
Speaker 2: this point, It's been at least six years. It has
Speaker 2: survived two elections, it has gone through a pandemic, it
Speaker 2: has gone through a very divisive referendum. But despite all that,
Speaker 2: the First People Assembly, in its two iterations, have gotten
Speaker 2: us to this point and it is a It was
Speaker 2: a remarkable day for everyone that has either paid close
Speaker 2: interest to this or been involved in it.
Speaker 1: It didn't take long though, for criticism to appear in
Speaker 1: some media outlets.
Speaker 3: This treaty legislation is a slap in the face to
Speaker 3: the majority Victorians who less than two years ago voted
Speaker 3: no to Labour's Voice to Parliament, isn't it?
Speaker 1: On Sky we heard people start to say that the
Speaker 1: Victorian government is quote pandering to a minority and.
Speaker 4: As usual, Victoria is way out in front in another
Speaker 4: example of pandering to a minority in favor of the majority.
Speaker 1: Singling out in particular things like the changes to the
Speaker 1: curriculum that will be introduced and changes to place names.
Speaker 4: Have a look at this barry Yip Primary. Now you
Speaker 4: say it apparently bar ray Yip. Now you've got Cuym
Speaker 4: Primary in Pakenham. It's pronounced kuyim. You've got Mini.
Speaker 1: Did you expect that kind of commentary?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's sadly predictable because it's pretty much or they've
Speaker 2: really gotten their kit in terms of being able to
Speaker 2: attack processes like this. They are ostensibly a bunch of
Speaker 2: One Creek ponies.
Speaker 4: When it comes.
Speaker 2: To the idea of the first Nations people here being
Speaker 2: a minority. Yes, we are a minority, but we are
Speaker 2: a minority that we're here for fifty thousand years, and
Speaker 2: when colonialism came here, we're a minority that had our
Speaker 2: land stolen, our waterways desecrated. We were the result of
Speaker 2: policies of eradication, both formal and informal. We were the
Speaker 2: victims of massacres. We were the victims of disease and
Speaker 2: alcohol that was brought here. The tremendous wealth that was
Speaker 2: created in this place through things like the gold Rush.
Speaker 2: Oboriginal people never saw, even though it was the plundering
Speaker 2: of their land that resulted in that the billions of
Speaker 2: dollars that have been generated through our waterways and land
Speaker 2: and skies. We've never seen a cent of We were
Speaker 2: deprived of our rights, and so yes, we are a minority,
Speaker 2: but we also are the first peoples of this place,
Speaker 2: and this treaty and the truth telling process you work
Speaker 2: before it is a reckoning of that, and it shows
Speaker 2: a state that is mature enough and bold enough to
Speaker 2: be able to deal with these particular issues in a
Speaker 2: mature and forensic but also incredibly nuanced way. And so
Speaker 2: the response from sections of the media was entirely predictable,
Speaker 2: trying to conflate it with things like the referendum, which
Speaker 2: is a completely different thing. This is it, this is
Speaker 2: what's happening, and if people want to conflate that with
Speaker 2: the referendum result for political purposes, then we'll wave to
Speaker 2: them as we go over the hill and down the road.
Speaker 1: We even heard some voices saying that this treaty should
Speaker 1: be put to a state referendum, much like the voice.
Speaker 3: What this shows is that the elites in this society
Speaker 3: don't care what you think, they don't care how you vote.
Speaker 3: They've got their own ideology and they are going to
Speaker 3: implement it. Anyway, and we've not only seen it with them.
Speaker 1: You don't hear those types of comments about legislation in
Speaker 1: other areas of Australian politics. So why do you think
Speaker 1: that indigenous policy draw that kind of reaction Because I.
Speaker 2: Think that people conflate the referendum result with actual political
Speaker 2: mileage and gain to be had at the expensive First
Speaker 2: Nations people, it's only with black veils that were asked
Speaker 2: to have referendums to put it to the vote. Well,
Speaker 2: this thing has survived to state elections, which was a
Speaker 2: key platform for the Andrews Labor government and did have
Speaker 2: bipartisan support from the National and Liberal parties before they
Speaker 2: chickened out of it and saw an opportunity after referendum
Speaker 2: to try and gain some sort of political capital out
Speaker 2: of it. But I think the last referendum we had
Speaker 2: in Victoria was around daylight saving So that's the that's
Speaker 2: the kind of referendums we have at the state level
Speaker 2: here in Vitoria. What would we have a referendum on
Speaker 2: this And anyone saying that the government is planning to
Speaker 2: have a referendum to enshrine this in the constitution of
Speaker 2: the state, it's just either mistaken or they are lying
Speaker 2: for political gain or for clickbait.
Speaker 1: And during the voice debate, the Prime Minister he avoided
Speaker 1: talking about a national treaty. He said, this is something
Speaker 1: that's happening at the state and territory level. Victoria is
Speaker 1: now the first, but what are we seeing in regards
Speaker 1: to other states and territories.
Speaker 2: In terms of the treaty process, Victoria is years and
Speaker 2: years ahead of what's happening in other states and territories.
Speaker 2: We've seen attacks on treaty processes and truth telling processes
Speaker 2: across the country, probably most brutally in Queensland, on which
Speaker 2: there was a truth telling process that was established but
Speaker 2: was torn down I think on the second day of
Speaker 2: the christ of Fudy government in Queensland being in power.
Speaker 1: The Prime Minister was warned on multiple occasions in the
Speaker 1: last six months that if he continued down this path,
Speaker 1: this is what would occur, this is.
Speaker 3: The kind of division that would occur.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not going to make the same mistake as
Speaker 1: the Prime minister.
Speaker 2: The Albaniza government spanned a tremendous amount of political capital
Speaker 2: in its first term. On the referendum, they haven't been
Speaker 2: wanting to go near Aboriginal affairs in a truth telling
Speaker 2: or treaty sense since then. But I do note that
Speaker 2: the Minister for Indigenous Australians, Melandarry McCarthy has been in
Speaker 2: Victoria this week and she is making more and more
Speaker 2: solid sort of pronouncements around a national truth telling process,
Speaker 2: which is encouraging because there is a void at the
Speaker 2: national level. It's a case of Victoria going out on
Speaker 2: its own and trying to improve out comfort for people here.
Speaker 2: But what we've done by going through that process is
Speaker 2: showing to the rest of the country that this can
Speaker 2: be done, and it can be done in a way
Speaker 2: that is inclusive and in a way that is looking
Speaker 2: more to the future now than to the past. We
Speaker 2: have through the truth telling process here reckoned with our past.
Speaker 2: We are now got our eyes firmly set on the future.
Speaker 2: And that is what treaty is about, and that is
Speaker 2: something that can be replicated at the national level if
Speaker 2: the government chooses to do.
Speaker 1: So coming up. Could the years of work in getting
Speaker 1: to this moment all be undone. You mentioned Queensland where
Speaker 1: the treaty process was axed after there was a change
Speaker 1: in government. So is there a risk that if in
Speaker 1: Victoria if Labor loses office, that the treaty could be undone,
Speaker 1: especially given that the Liberal Party in Victoria is against it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the difference here is that the Treaty Legislation Bill
Speaker 2: has been introduced into the Parliament. It will be passed
Speaker 2: with the Parliament. The Nationals and Liberals here make up
Speaker 2: a very small minority in terms of oppositions when it
Speaker 2: comes to the numbers within the Parliament here, so it
Speaker 2: will pass with the support of Greens and other minority
Speaker 2: groups and so then it will have over a year
Speaker 2: to run before the next election, in which case it
Speaker 2: has the opportunity to ensrine itself in some of the
Speaker 2: systems here, to raise its own awareness through the community.
Speaker 2: But over the next twelve months and a bit, it's
Speaker 2: going to be really hard to put the toothpaste back
Speaker 2: into the tube once this is out there. From my understanding,
Speaker 2: the opposition here says they still oppose the process, but
Speaker 2: they haven't made a commitment or made any noises about
Speaker 2: whether they would tear it down if they got into government.
Speaker 2: Reading the situation here, it would be something that would
Speaker 2: be seen as incredibly pointless and reckless to do, given
Speaker 2: that there's been such a process in place for such
Speaker 2: a long time, and it's not a platform that you
Speaker 2: want to run on here in Victoria. If you want
Speaker 2: to run on a platform orf we're going to tear
Speaker 2: down Treaty, It's not going to get you too many votes.
Speaker 2: We've got far bigger issues in terms of the political
Speaker 2: landscape here around crime and costally and things like that,
Speaker 2: where there are far more votes to be mine as
Speaker 2: an opposition than something like treaty.
Speaker 1: And so once we see treaty in action, Daniel, how
Speaker 1: do you think that the experience of First Nations people
Speaker 1: in Victoria is going to change?
Speaker 2: Probably the most meaningful change in terms of the broader
Speaker 2: community will be through things like changes to the Victorian
Speaker 2: school curriculum. We have a report now truths be told
Speaker 2: through the Oral Justice Commission, which is now part of
Speaker 2: the official public Record, which will be used as a
Speaker 2: resource now to redevelop the curriculum to tell the true
Speaker 2: history of this place. There's going to be an ongoing
Speaker 2: truth telling process established, which means that we are able
Speaker 2: to recognize patterns and speak truth to power on a
Speaker 2: regular basis about what actually is happening here and how
Speaker 2: the colonial project is still having detrimental impacts on First
Speaker 2: Nations people. There will be the establishment of oversight institutions.
Speaker 2: The treaty allows First Nations people for the first time
Speaker 2: as equals with the Crown to negotiate, have input and
Speaker 2: talk to laws and policies that will impact First Nations people.
Speaker 2: So we're not retrofitting systems or policies or ideas. We
Speaker 2: are there at the actual point that some of these
Speaker 2: systems and policies are either reformed or created. There will
Speaker 2: be renaming conventions across the state, and any sort of
Speaker 2: public building or piece of land that is owned by
Speaker 2: the state could be renamed after a process with First
Speaker 2: Nations people to just get the flavor and language or
Speaker 2: First Nations people back into this land after it's been
Speaker 2: missing for so long, and there will be frameworks to
Speaker 2: negotiate further treaties. I think the thing that people need
Speaker 2: to realize is that the treaty itself is a leave, living,
Speaker 2: breathing document. It's not something that is etched in stone.
Speaker 2: Is a process that will continue to evolve as a
Speaker 2: society and community evolves. So there's a whole truckload of
Speaker 2: things ruby that will be part of this process. Over
Speaker 2: the future generations. That will not only enrich the lives
Speaker 2: of First Nations people, it will rich the lives of
Speaker 2: the broader community. I think an important thing to also
Speaker 2: note about the treaty too, is that there's no commercial
Speaker 2: in confidence here. What you see in the treaty is
Speaker 2: laid out for everyone to see. It is something that
Speaker 2: has been negotiated between the First People's Assembly and the
Speaker 2: Victorian government, and the treaty now is the document where
Speaker 2: everyone could see that there are no hidden clauses, no
Speaker 2: hidden agendas. People aren't coming after people's homes or real
Speaker 2: estate or businesses. It is all laid out in black
Speaker 2: and white there, I say in the treaty document itself.
Speaker 1: And for people who have fought for decades to get
Speaker 1: to this point, the weight of this moment must be heavy.
Speaker 1: Do you think that there is a sense of pressure
Speaker 1: now that this needs to deliver real change. Yeah.
Speaker 2: If there's any concern about whether the First People, Suscemly
Speaker 2: and Aboriginal people in Victoria will now rest on our
Speaker 2: laurels that we now have this treaty process, I'm here
Speaker 2: to ease your concerns around that. The weight of our
Speaker 2: own history, the weight of the people who have fought
Speaker 2: for things like this and that we've lost along the way.
Speaker 2: The weight of their memory is something that will push
Speaker 2: us forward far more than any sort of immediate political
Speaker 2: dynamic in this state. I was actually surprised by how
Speaker 2: much I was actually moved by this. It was something
Speaker 2: that I intellectually was prepared for, something that I had
Speaker 2: had a little bit of a role in bringing to
Speaker 2: life in a very very very small way. But it
Speaker 2: wasn't until a couple of hours after the whole thing
Speaker 2: was introduced into the past that the gravity of what
Speaker 2: has happened here kind of really hit me for the
Speaker 2: first time. And what the treaty now does is recognize
Speaker 2: that everyone that lives in this place that we call
Speaker 2: Victoria now should have their own relationship with the land
Speaker 2: and the customs here. Sure, our involvement Aboriginal people's relationship
Speaker 2: with the land and its waterways and its skies is unique,
Speaker 2: but there's now an opportunity now for every person that
Speaker 2: is fortunate enough to live in this place to develop
Speaker 2: their own relationship with the land and the waters at
Speaker 2: the invitation of First Nations people. And if you want
Speaker 2: to look at that in sort of practical ways. There
Speaker 2: are whole communities in Victoria and particularly in Malbourne now
Speaker 2: that from my point of view, I kind of see
Speaker 2: that a court between between worlds that they don't belong
Speaker 2: to one part of society. They are trying to find
Speaker 2: their way towards acceptance and find a place of belonging
Speaker 2: in this community. Well, without being too grandiose about it,
Speaker 2: treaty is one pathway for people to find themselves in
Speaker 2: this state and the place they live. That has been
Speaker 2: looked after for when year by First Nations people, and
Speaker 2: that can be done together with First Nations people.
Speaker 1: Well, Daniel, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2: Thanks Raby.
Speaker 1: Also in the news today, Victoria Police has changed its
Speaker 1: position on people who may be helping missing suspected killer
Speaker 1: Desmond Freeman, now saying those who come forward and admit
Speaker 1: they helped him may not be charged with criminal offenses.
Speaker 1: The fifty six year old has been on the run
Speaker 1: for two weeks after allegedly shooting dead two police officers
Speaker 1: in Poor Punker in Victoria. And American right wing influencer
Speaker 1: and political ally of Donald Trump, Charlie Kirk, has died
Speaker 1: after being shot while speaking at a university campus in Utah.
Speaker 1: Police say about three thousand people had gathered to hear
Speaker 1: the thirty one year old speak, who was answering a
Speaker 1: question about mass shootings at the time.
Speaker 4: That he was shocked.
Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk was the founder of the influential conservative youth
Speaker 1: organization Turning Point USA. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.