Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ruby Jones, and you're listening to seven am
Speaker 1: when an Israeli air strike hit the gate of Syria's
Speaker 1: Defense Ministry in central Damascus. The blast echoed far beyond
Speaker 1: the capital. It was a warning shot in a growing
Speaker 1: fight over who controls Syria's fractured south, where sectary intensions
Speaker 1: have reignited between minority populations and the Syrian government. Today,
Speaker 1: Damascus based journalist Heidi pet on the latest in this
Speaker 1: conflict and how it could redraw the map of Syria.
Speaker 1: It's Thursday, July twenty fourth, So Heidi, thank you for
Speaker 1: talking with me.
Speaker 2: Last week.
Speaker 1: You were in Damascus when Israel launched air strikes on
Speaker 1: the city. Tell me where you were when that happened
Speaker 1: and what you saw.
Speaker 2: So, in the midst of this violence that we've seen
Speaker 2: in the south of the country, Israel began a series
Speaker 2: of what we'd call warning strikes on Damascus.
Speaker 3: Months after liberation from decades of tyranny. Syrians now have
Speaker 3: this to worry about. He's read, the air strikes in
Speaker 3: the heart of their capital.
Speaker 2: And so in the middle of the morning they hit
Speaker 2: the gate of the Defense Ministry, which is in central Damascus.
Speaker 2: You know It's in this place called Amayad Square where
Speaker 2: Syrians gather, you know, for huge celebrations when the regime fell,
Speaker 2: for protests. You get families going down there in the
Speaker 2: evening to kind of picnic and hang out. And I'd
Speaker 2: gone down there because I wanted to take some photographs
Speaker 2: of the damage so far, and so I was kind
Speaker 2: of getting out of my car and then I heard
Speaker 2: this scream of jets overhead, and then a series of
Speaker 2: three or four enormous air strikes.
Speaker 3: Mid afternoon in Damascus. It's the most famous square violated
Speaker 3: and bombarded by Israeli.
Speaker 2: Air power, and you know, just the immense kind of
Speaker 2: sound wave and dust and debris flying through the air
Speaker 2: as about one hundred and fifty meters away from where
Speaker 2: I was standing. And when that smoke cleared, what you
Speaker 2: could see is that the Ministry of Defense building, which
Speaker 2: is a four or five story building in downtown Damascus,
Speaker 2: had just been cleaved into.
Speaker 1: And so why did Israel launch this offensive in the
Speaker 1: middle of Damascus? What was that message?
Speaker 2: So Syria is still not a unified country. In the northeast,
Speaker 2: the Kurds still maintained a lot of territorial control and
Speaker 2: in the south, there's an ethnic minority, religious minority called
Speaker 2: the Drus. There's about seven hundred thousand of them. But
Speaker 2: there's also Druze communities in Lebanon, and a significant Druze
Speaker 2: community inside Israel, mostly though that's in the north of
Speaker 2: the Gollen Heights, which is actually Syrian territory that's been
Speaker 2: occupied by Israel since nineteen sixty seven. Many of the
Speaker 2: Drews inside Syria, they're quite suspicious of Ahmad al Shara's government,
Speaker 2: and they control a lot of the southern province of
Speaker 2: Sweda and the city that takes the same name. And
Speaker 2: for a long time there's been this simmering conflict between
Speaker 2: the Drus and Bedouin tribes and communities, and then over
Speaker 2: the weekend really exploded into quite serious violence.
Speaker 3: Localized dispute between Bedouin tribes and some Druz fighters escalated
Speaker 3: into a battle over whether the region should integrate into
Speaker 3: the new Syria.
Speaker 2: The Syrian government basically saw that as an opportunity, you know,
Speaker 2: they intervened, they say, to restore calm, but it was
Speaker 2: also a pretext or a reason for them to go
Speaker 2: in with quite a lot of force and take control
Speaker 2: of a province that up until now had remained outside
Speaker 2: of their authority.
Speaker 4: The Arab fighters repeatedly insist to us they want a
Speaker 4: unified Syria, but the Druze faction in Sweda, led by
Speaker 4: cleric hekmat Alhadjari, does not. His group refuses to be
Speaker 4: led by a government they accused of perpetrating killings against
Speaker 4: Drus and.
Speaker 2: He is the one who called for Israeli intervention, and
Speaker 2: so Israel then obliged. They launched this, you know, a
Speaker 2: series of airstrikes on the Syrian government troops had had
Speaker 2: gone into Sweda, killing hundreds of them apparently. So then
Speaker 2: there was a sort of agreement for a ceasefire and
Speaker 2: a withdrawal, and you know, various of these agreements inside
Speaker 2: the city of Swedar.
Speaker 4: This was meant to be a cease fi but the
Speaker 4: warring factions clearly weren't part of it. There's no electricity
Speaker 4: in the city, Internet is cut, food and water is scarce,
Speaker 4: and there are thousands of families still bunkered down in
Speaker 4: their homes. Amongst all of this, the.
Speaker 2: Israelis that's when they decided to bomb central Damascus, sending
Speaker 2: a very very strong message to the Syrian regime, which
Speaker 2: is basically, don't even think about sending your military back
Speaker 2: into Sweden.
Speaker 1: Tell me more about how the Syrian government has been reacting.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's interesting because up until now, the President Ahmedolshara
Speaker 2: has been pretty conciliatory towards Israel, and as part of
Speaker 2: the kind of agreement that has been made between ahmados
Speaker 2: Shara and the US to get these crippling sanctions lifted
Speaker 2: on Syria, it looks like there was a real path
Speaker 2: towards normalizing relations with the Israel which would be historic.
Speaker 2: You know, he when he talks about Israel, he even
Speaker 2: refers to it as the Israeli state, rather than using
Speaker 2: the language of a lot of people and leaders here
Speaker 2: in this region, which is they would never say the
Speaker 2: Israeli state. They call it the Israeli entity because they
Speaker 2: don't recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli State. Ahmedolshara, you know,
Speaker 2: he looks like he was on that path, but in
Speaker 2: the last week, in the statements that he has made saying,
Speaker 2: you know, this is a violation of our sovereignty. It's unacceptable,
Speaker 2: it's you know, you're seeking to undermine and sow division.
Speaker 2: He has now begun referring to it again as the
Speaker 2: Israeli entity, which I think gives you some indication of
Speaker 2: the direction of travel there.
Speaker 1: So in that case, why do you think Israel is
Speaker 1: seeking to undermine someone who could be in la.
Speaker 2: I mean that is that is really a question for
Speaker 2: Benjamin Nettan now, who who it seems has really gone
Speaker 2: off the rails in the last week. You know, the
Speaker 2: Americans are reportedly very very displeased.
Speaker 6: Donald Trump is getting fed up. One White House of
Speaker 6: visual described net Yahoo is quote a madman the Axis,
Speaker 6: claiming he bombs everything all the time and that it
Speaker 6: could undermine the Trump White House's efforts in the region.
Speaker 2: But on a larger level, it sort of suits them
Speaker 2: to have a weakened neighbor in Syria. You know, they're
Speaker 2: not interested in having a strong military of any kind
Speaker 2: on their borders. And to that end, you know, in
Speaker 2: December when the regimes fell, they spent a lot of
Speaker 2: time launching hundreds of air strikes and destroying Syrian military capabilities.
Speaker 2: And what that's done is it's put the Syrian president
Speaker 2: Offmanol Shara in a really really difficult position. You know,
Speaker 2: Israel just saying that the Syrian government isn't allowed to
Speaker 2: have a presence in the south of its own country.
Speaker 2: Is not tolerable for a lot of Syrians, and it's
Speaker 2: also not really tolerable for a lot of the armed
Speaker 2: groups and fighters that Shara relies upon to maintain security
Speaker 2: and stability inside Syria. He already has quite a tenuous
Speaker 2: hold on some parts of the country, and Israel risks
Speaker 2: really inflaming these sectarian divisions. They're risk tipping Syria back
Speaker 2: into serious violence or another civil war.
Speaker 1: After the break Hardi takes us to the edge of
Speaker 1: Sweda and the center of the violence. So, Haidi, you've
Speaker 1: spent the last few days traveling throughout the south of Syria.
Speaker 1: You've been trained to get into Sweden, which is the
Speaker 1: place at the center of this violence. Tell me about
Speaker 1: what life is like there and what's been happening since
Speaker 1: Israel attacked Tumscus.
Speaker 2: So Sweda has essentially been under siege since then. So
Speaker 2: you know, we had these Bedouin armed groups and also
Speaker 2: elements of the Syrian military kind of rampaging through the
Speaker 2: city and engaging in this really you know, serious fighting
Speaker 2: with Drew's militias, but also violence against civilians, and after
Speaker 2: the Israeli strikes, the Syrian military, you know, they did
Speaker 2: withdraw and various agreements have been made for these Bedouin
Speaker 2: fighters to also leave the city.
Speaker 5: To Syria now where residents in the southern city of
Speaker 5: Sueda have told the BBC there is a tense calm
Speaker 5: in the city following seven days of violent sectarian clashes,
Speaker 5: but despite some reports of attacks, a ceasefire enforced by
Speaker 5: the Syrian government largely appears to be holding.
Speaker 2: But what has happened is it's meant there's this kind
Speaker 2: of ring of Syrian government forces and Bedouin tribes around
Speaker 2: the city of Sweda. People inside their running out of food,
Speaker 2: they're running out of water, there's no electricity, the internet
Speaker 2: keeps getting cut off. It's you know, it's essentially a
Speaker 2: humanitarian disaster inside the city. And then in some of
Speaker 2: these villages that ring the city, which were majority Bedouin.
Speaker 2: What we've also seen is because of this fighting and
Speaker 2: what has turned into this kind of sectarian revenge, some
Speaker 2: of the Druze militias have been killing Bedouins civilians, They've
Speaker 2: taken a large number of them hostage, and other ones
Speaker 2: they've been displaced from their land and their villages. So
Speaker 2: it's you know, it's an incredibly difficult situation in that
Speaker 2: province for civilians right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like a dire situation in Sweda and
Speaker 1: incredibly difficult to actually get in and witness at firsthand.
Speaker 1: Tell me about what that's been like trying to enter
Speaker 1: and what you've seen on the outskirts of the city.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I've spent the last couple of days negotiating
Speaker 2: with you know, armed men of various stripes trying to
Speaker 2: get access to the city of Sweda. The Syrian government
Speaker 2: has set up a checkpoint and they've told all of
Speaker 2: these Bedouin fighters that they can go no further. And
Speaker 2: so you've got hundreds of fighters who've come from all
Speaker 2: over Syria massing at this point because they also don't
Speaker 2: trust the Syrian government.
Speaker 7: This here is the last government checkpoint before Sawada. But
Speaker 7: all afternoon Bedwin government have been massive on this road.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 7: They say that they have stuck to the ceasfide ideal,
Speaker 7: but they say they don't get their hostages out, get
Speaker 7: the sick they injured out, then they're gonna go back in.
Speaker 2: You've got men in cars that are covered in mud
Speaker 2: in order to kind of disguise them from the air
Speaker 2: from you know, from Israeli drone and air strikes. Masked
Speaker 2: men on motorbikes. They're all incredibly heavily armed with Klashnikov's
Speaker 2: heavy weaponry.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I saw one guy go past on the back of
Speaker 2: a motorbike with a sort of portable anti aircraft weapons
Speaker 2: strapped to his back. And when you talk to these guys,
Speaker 2: you really get a sense that this is not a
Speaker 2: group that the Syrian government has a great deal of
Speaker 2: control over it all.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I spoke to one of the field leaders for one
Speaker 2: of the tribes and he said, you know, we're Bedouins,
Speaker 2: We're independent, We're not taking our orders from the government.
Speaker 2: And if we don't see these Bedouin civilians in these
Speaker 2: surrounding villages released, we're going to go back in and
Speaker 2: nobody can stop us.
Speaker 7: Jadha and this Bedwin leader told me it wasn't over
Speaker 7: and Adola. If the Drews don't commit to the deal,
Speaker 7: we will re enter Sawaiter again, he said.
Speaker 2: So it's quite a tense scene there, and some of
Speaker 2: these Druze villages on the outskirts you can see that
Speaker 2: really really serious violence has happened. You know, every single
Speaker 2: building had been burned. We also saw some of the looting,
Speaker 2: you know, washing machines and household belongings sort of left
Speaker 2: by the side of the road. And then I met
Speaker 2: this woman. She was, you know, an elderly Drew's civilian
Speaker 2: who'd been displaced from that neighborhood. She'd been hiding in
Speaker 2: her house because she didn't want to leave actually, but
Speaker 2: you know, her house had been burned, her hands were
Speaker 2: covered in soot. You know, they've got nothing to go
Speaker 2: back to, and it's incredibly sad.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: There was one family that I spoke to and they
Speaker 2: were saying, you know, we have no problem with the
Speaker 2: Drew civilians. We only have a problem with the militia.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: We had to leave my mother in law inside Sweden
Speaker 2: because she's injured. She couldn't move, and she's you know,
Speaker 2: she's in there. She's being taken care of by Drew's family.
Speaker 2: And so even though they have these these sort of
Speaker 2: personal connections that you know that many Syrians have with
Speaker 2: their neighbors, you know, I asked him, you know, what
Speaker 2: would it take for you to go back? And he said,
Speaker 2: even if the government gave me all of Sweden, I
Speaker 2: wouldn't go back. You know what I've seen in there.
Speaker 2: You know, I've never seen anything like it in my
Speaker 2: whole life. And as far as he's concerned, it's you know,
Speaker 2: his home's gone. He'll never go back.
Speaker 1: And so this violence, the shooting, the burning, the looting,
Speaker 1: people push to the point where they don't think they
Speaker 1: can ever go back to their homes. What does all
Speaker 1: of it say to you, Hardie about the challenge for
Speaker 1: the Syrian government right now?
Speaker 2: I mean, it shows you how how easily fractured this
Speaker 2: society is after the you know, years and years of
Speaker 2: dictatorship and then war. It shows you the challenges for
Speaker 2: the Syrian government, I think, in maintaining control over their
Speaker 2: own troops and over the various other armed groups which
Speaker 2: are you know, nominally on their side, these sunny Vedouin tribes,
Speaker 2: you know, they say that they're on the side of
Speaker 2: or allied to the government, but it looks like when
Speaker 2: push comes to shove, they don't necessarily respect their authority.
Speaker 2: But the bigger picture is that it shows other groups
Speaker 2: across Syria, and most notably the Kurds who in the
Speaker 2: northeast still have about twenty percent of Syrian territory. That this,
Speaker 2: you know, this kind of experiment or this opportunity that
Speaker 2: the Syrian government sought to take to go in and
Speaker 2: establish control over a whole province, so they you know,
Speaker 2: that they didn't have any authority over it shows them
Speaker 2: that that failed, and so we've got this kind of
Speaker 2: looming deadline in these negotiations between the Kurds, who've traditionally
Speaker 2: been backed by the US and France and you know
Speaker 2: a lot of Western governments in their fight against not
Speaker 2: just the assid regime but also against Isis. You know,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of pressure being put on them to unify,
Speaker 2: to fold in, to come under the authority of the
Speaker 2: Syrian state. And I think the message that they've taken
Speaker 2: from this is that actually, you know, they are in
Speaker 2: quite a strong negotiating position because this attempt by the
Speaker 2: Syrian government, this show of force, it hasn't worked. I
Speaker 2: think what it means is that there's a possibility for
Speaker 2: continued violence on a larger scale and fracturing, you know,
Speaker 2: and potentially the tipping into another civil war.
Speaker 1: Heidi, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Also in the news today, Labor has introduced legislation in
Speaker 1: federal Parliament to cut existing student debt by twenty percent.
Speaker 1: The legislation, which is likely to pass with the support
Speaker 1: of the Coalition and the Greens, will see three million
Speaker 1: Australians receive an automatic reduction to loans offered under the
Speaker 1: Higher Education Loan Program or Help. And legendary singer of
Speaker 1: Black Sabbath Ozzy Osborne, has died aged seventy six. Diagnosed
Speaker 1: with Parkinson's in twenty nineteen, Osborne was a pioneering figure
Speaker 1: in heavy metal. In a statement, his family said he
Speaker 1: was surrounded by loved ones in his final moments. I'm
Speaker 1: Ruby Jones. Thanks for listening.