1 00:00:03,740 --> 00:00:06,750 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,750 --> 00:00:10,560 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. The technology revolution is creating a new wave of 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,660 Sean Aylmer: wealthy young Australians, but for now, the richest people in the 4 00:00:13,660 --> 00:00:18,370 Sean Aylmer: country are still the miners. The List, Australia's Richest 250, 5 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,380 Sean Aylmer: has been released by The Australian today. And as always, 6 00:00:21,380 --> 00:00:24,639 Sean Aylmer: it makes for some great reading. Gina Rinehart and Andrew 7 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,640 Sean Aylmer: Forrest are first and second, each with around 32 billion. 8 00:00:28,390 --> 00:00:31,480 Sean Aylmer: Overall wealth has surged, with a combined wealth of everybody 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:36,380 Sean Aylmer: on The List, at more than 520 billion, up 50 billion from last 10 00:00:36,380 --> 00:00:39,650 Sean Aylmer: year. John Stensholt is the editor of The List and 11 00:00:39,650 --> 00:00:42,410 Sean Aylmer: my guest this morning. John, welcome back to Fear and Greed. 12 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:43,250 John Stensholt: Thanks, Sean. 13 00:00:44,750 --> 00:00:48,080 Sean Aylmer: How many lists? You started this in BRW days, a 14 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,450 Sean Aylmer: long time ago. How many years have you been compiling 15 00:00:50,450 --> 00:00:52,450 Sean Aylmer: lists of the richest Australians, John? 16 00:00:53,020 --> 00:00:56,450 John Stensholt: Oh, I think we're getting to 15 years, Sean. So much has 17 00:00:56,450 --> 00:00:58,990 John Stensholt: changed in that time. Hasn't it? I mean, there's quite a 18 00:00:58,990 --> 00:01:00,850 John Stensholt: few names that are still the same, but I reckon 19 00:01:00,850 --> 00:01:04,330 John Stensholt: there are so many new and interesting people on there, that 20 00:01:04,330 --> 00:01:07,209 John Stensholt: have come and gone and maybe come again and are 21 00:01:07,209 --> 00:01:09,729 John Stensholt: emerging now. So yeah, it does. It provides that snapshot 22 00:01:09,730 --> 00:01:12,640 John Stensholt: of Australian business and the economy, I think. 23 00:01:13,470 --> 00:01:16,490 Sean Aylmer: So Gina Rinehart and Andrew Forrest are on the top. 24 00:01:16,490 --> 00:01:18,959 Sean Aylmer: No real surprises there. That's on the back of iron 25 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,610 Sean Aylmer: ore prices. Were you surprised by the 32 billion? It's 26 00:01:22,610 --> 00:01:23,309 Sean Aylmer: not bad, is it? 27 00:01:23,900 --> 00:01:25,770 John Stensholt: Oh yeah, it's not bad. It's actually down a little bit 28 00:01:25,770 --> 00:01:29,750 John Stensholt: from last year, would you believe? I mean, commodity prices 29 00:01:29,750 --> 00:01:31,440 John Stensholt: are coming off a bit, but she made a record 30 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:36,390 John Stensholt: profit for Hancock Prospecting and is still going great guns and wants 31 00:01:36,390 --> 00:01:39,080 John Stensholt: to keep expanding. She's one of those people on the 32 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,330 John Stensholt: list that sticks to her knitting and her knitting really 33 00:01:41,330 --> 00:01:43,360 John Stensholt: is mining. That is what she does. 34 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,900 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Okay. So love the miners, John, but let's get 35 00:01:46,900 --> 00:01:50,930 Sean Aylmer: onto these tech barons. So Atlassian co- founders Mike Cannon- Brookes 36 00:01:50,930 --> 00:01:53,980 Sean Aylmer: and Scott Farquhar are fourth and fifth, with around 26 37 00:01:53,980 --> 00:01:58,720 Sean Aylmer: billion. 15 years ago, John, did you know Mike Cannon- 38 00:01:58,720 --> 00:01:59,570 Sean Aylmer: Brookes and Scott Farquhar? 39 00:01:59,930 --> 00:02:03,510 John Stensholt: I think they were just finishing off university then. Look, they started 40 00:02:04,050 --> 00:02:05,990 John Stensholt: Atlassian, but I think they had a ping pong table 41 00:02:05,990 --> 00:02:08,000 John Stensholt: in the office and that's probably about it and a couple of 42 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,470 John Stensholt: caps. I think they still do that, but they're worth 43 00:02:10,470 --> 00:02:12,960 John Stensholt: a lot more these days. Yeah, that's right. I mean, no one 44 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,540 John Stensholt: would've seen this coming. I mean, we all knew the 45 00:02:14,540 --> 00:02:17,540 John Stensholt: internet was coming. Technology was going to emerge, but who 46 00:02:17,540 --> 00:02:21,870 John Stensholt: knew that a company that makes collaboration tools for workers 47 00:02:21,870 --> 00:02:24,490 John Stensholt: to work together remotely or in the office together and 48 00:02:24,490 --> 00:02:28,130 John Stensholt: that sort of thing, would become a global success story 49 00:02:28,130 --> 00:02:31,770 John Stensholt: from Sydney? I mean, that just shows you how things change. I 50 00:02:31,770 --> 00:02:34,880 John Stensholt: mean, you can become a world- beating company from your 51 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,019 John Stensholt: own backyard. We've got quite a few of those now. 52 00:02:37,610 --> 00:02:39,609 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Okay. I mean, 29 people are from the tech 53 00:02:39,610 --> 00:02:41,160 Sean Aylmer: sector, 29 people on The List. 54 00:02:41,630 --> 00:02:46,150 John Stensholt: Yeah. That's the second biggest category. Property is still the biggest 55 00:02:46,150 --> 00:02:49,440 John Stensholt: one, with 59. I mean, Australia's obsessed with property. There's 56 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,290 John Stensholt: so much property around. You've seen what house prices have 57 00:02:52,290 --> 00:02:55,370 John Stensholt: done. Commercial properties held up pretty well. But the fact 58 00:02:55,370 --> 00:02:59,050 John Stensholt: that the technology sector is the second biggest now, as you 59 00:02:59,270 --> 00:03:01,639 John Stensholt: say, 10 or 15 years ago, there might have been 60 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,010 John Stensholt: two people on the list in that regard. Now there's 61 00:03:04,020 --> 00:03:07,030 John Stensholt: 29. There's so many that are just below the cutoff, as 62 00:03:07,030 --> 00:03:10,180 John Stensholt: well. So, you think of all those tech unicorns they call them, the 63 00:03:10,180 --> 00:03:13,810 John Stensholt: billion dollar startups that emerge. I mean, even at a 64 00:03:13,810 --> 00:03:16,010 John Stensholt: billion dollars now, depending on how much of a stake 65 00:03:16,010 --> 00:03:18,000 John Stensholt: you own, you still might not make The List. You've got 66 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,160 John Stensholt: to be worth lot. Your company's got to be worth a 67 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:24,280 John Stensholt: lot. There's a lot of money that's being invested in this sector and 68 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,210 John Stensholt: a lot of money being made and will still be 69 00:03:26,210 --> 00:03:28,560 John Stensholt: made. It's really probably just getting started. Right? 70 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,950 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. So to get really rich, property still works, tech works and 71 00:03:33,950 --> 00:03:35,980 Sean Aylmer: mining. Is mining the third? 72 00:03:36,350 --> 00:03:40,170 John Stensholt: Well, there's retail, retail as well. But I think again, 73 00:03:40,170 --> 00:03:42,700 John Stensholt: there's a bit of a retail with a twist. Right? 74 00:03:42,700 --> 00:03:46,480 John Stensholt: So take a company like Culture Kings, which is really 75 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,910 John Stensholt: a retail store phenomenon. It's for young and hip people, 76 00:03:51,370 --> 00:03:53,790 John Stensholt: probably not like ourselves these days, unfortunately, but- 77 00:03:54,330 --> 00:03:55,510 Sean Aylmer: John, speak for yourself. 78 00:03:55,580 --> 00:03:59,500 John Stensholt: Exactly. They go along. There's a really cool scene in 79 00:03:59,500 --> 00:04:01,810 John Stensholt: the shops. You can get your haircut, play a bit 80 00:04:01,810 --> 00:04:05,670 John Stensholt: of basketball, buy some goods. They also obviously did really 81 00:04:05,670 --> 00:04:08,870 John Stensholt: well online, but I mean, it's a Gold Coast couple. They're 82 00:04:08,870 --> 00:04:13,360 John Stensholt: in their thirties, Tahnee and Simon Beard. They're worth 503 million now. 83 00:04:13,750 --> 00:04:15,880 John Stensholt: They're just about to open a store in Las Vegas 84 00:04:16,610 --> 00:04:19,029 John Stensholt: and go over to America and conquer there. So, it 85 00:04:19,029 --> 00:04:22,640 John Stensholt: does show you that, maybe the bricks and mortar slash 86 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:27,760 John Stensholt: eCommerce combining together, still shows there's a retail story out there. 87 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,660 Sean Aylmer: And there's still Sam Prince who's this year's highest ranked debutant, at 88 00:04:32,750 --> 00:04:38,839 Sean Aylmer: 112, worth about 1. 2 billion. Zambrero, the Mexican takeaway business, that's 89 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,140 Sean Aylmer: still very bricks and mortar, really old style retail. 90 00:04:42,620 --> 00:04:45,470 John Stensholt: It is. It is. Again, I mean, there's a lot 91 00:04:45,470 --> 00:04:48,750 John Stensholt: of stores around Australia, but he's also taking it, would 92 00:04:48,750 --> 00:04:51,760 John Stensholt: you believe, to America as well and Europe and Asia. 93 00:04:52,610 --> 00:04:56,250 John Stensholt: An Australian selling Mexican themed food over in America, who 94 00:04:56,250 --> 00:04:58,810 John Stensholt: would've thought it? But I mean, that's what these entrepreneurs do. They have 95 00:04:58,810 --> 00:04:59,210 John Stensholt: a crack. 96 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,570 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, John. We'll be back in a minute. 97 00:05:01,570 --> 00:05:09,570 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is John Stensholt, editor of The List, 98 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,830 Sean Aylmer: Australia's Richest 250. Now look, I've got to talk about Clive Palmer, 99 00:05:13,830 --> 00:05:16,990 Sean Aylmer: number seven on the list, worth more than 18 billion, 100 00:05:17,550 --> 00:05:19,300 Sean Aylmer: nearly doubling his wealth for a second year in a 101 00:05:19,300 --> 00:05:23,060 Sean Aylmer: row. Clearly, all that ad spend for the United Australia 102 00:05:23,060 --> 00:05:24,940 Sean Aylmer: Party isn't hurting his bottom line. 103 00:05:25,900 --> 00:05:27,510 John Stensholt: I did an interview with him, Sean. I had to 104 00:05:27,510 --> 00:05:30,160 John Stensholt: go to his super yacht to chat, as you do 105 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:31,851 John Stensholt: with some of these billionaires. 106 00:05:31,851 --> 00:05:34,070 Sean Aylmer: What's it like on the super yacht? Do you get 107 00:05:34,070 --> 00:05:35,870 Sean Aylmer: a boat out, or do they just pull up on 108 00:05:35,870 --> 00:05:38,660 Sean Aylmer: the wharf and you jump on? Do you feel kind 109 00:05:38,660 --> 00:05:41,100 Sean Aylmer: of like you're in an episode of Entourage or something 110 00:05:41,100 --> 00:05:42,990 Sean Aylmer: like that? Do you feel really rich on them? 111 00:05:43,830 --> 00:05:47,159 John Stensholt: Yeah. A lot of mahogany paneling and very dark colors 112 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,370 John Stensholt: and beautiful... Well, there's jacuzzis and wet bars and that 113 00:05:51,370 --> 00:05:53,960 John Stensholt: sort of thing as well. There was signs for Clive's 114 00:05:54,420 --> 00:05:56,609 John Stensholt: United Australia Party too, which is why he does things 115 00:05:56,610 --> 00:05:59,960 John Stensholt: a little bit differently. But in that regard, I mean, 116 00:06:00,050 --> 00:06:03,430 John Stensholt: he's spending a hundred million, but he makes $ 620 million 117 00:06:03,750 --> 00:06:07,400 John Stensholt: a year or so, from mining royalties. So, his crack 118 00:06:07,540 --> 00:06:09,580 John Stensholt: about that was, " Well, it's only a couple of months 119 00:06:09,580 --> 00:06:12,589 John Stensholt: work for me, spending that money. Isn't it?" Okay. That 120 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,050 John Stensholt: just shows you the different world these people live in. 121 00:06:16,339 --> 00:06:18,710 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, it does. That's right. Trying to connect with the real people of 122 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:23,180 Sean Aylmer: Australia, that's quite funny. Now putting The List together, it's quite 123 00:06:23,180 --> 00:06:26,770 Sean Aylmer: a challenge. I have worked for you, many years ago, 124 00:06:26,770 --> 00:06:28,770 Sean Aylmer: in trying to do it. Do people like being on The List? 125 00:06:28,771 --> 00:06:37,130 John Stensholt: There is definitely some people that like being on The List. Most people accept being 126 00:06:37,130 --> 00:06:38,830 John Stensholt: on The List, at the very least. They know that 127 00:06:38,830 --> 00:06:41,700 John Stensholt: annual call's coming. They'll talk to you in the background. 128 00:06:41,770 --> 00:06:43,990 John Stensholt: They'll never admit it publicly, but some of the information 129 00:06:43,990 --> 00:06:47,880 John Stensholt: that I get and see, you wouldn't believe. I mean, balance sheets, 130 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:52,370 John Stensholt: lists of assets, money being transferred here and there and 131 00:06:52,370 --> 00:06:56,080 John Stensholt: what's worth this and that. They're very switched on. I 132 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,120 John Stensholt: mean, these people really know what they're worth. The ones that say 133 00:06:59,690 --> 00:07:01,599 John Stensholt: that they don't, probably just haven't come to terms yet 134 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,460 John Stensholt: with having that much money. But when they do, they definitely want to 135 00:07:04,460 --> 00:07:05,700 John Stensholt: know where they are on the list. 136 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,470 Sean Aylmer: I remember once, you asked me to... I won't mention 137 00:07:09,470 --> 00:07:11,750 Sean Aylmer: the individual's name, but his company had sold and he... 138 00:07:11,750 --> 00:07:16,400 Sean Aylmer: I said to him, he had $ 895 million, based on 139 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:20,530 Sean Aylmer: your numbers. He came back and said, " It was 889. 140 00:07:20,530 --> 00:07:22,080 Sean Aylmer: Can we go through it?" We went through it and 141 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:27,110 Sean Aylmer: there was a $6 million house, which he'd totally forgotten about. He said, " 142 00:07:27,290 --> 00:07:30,460 Sean Aylmer: Oh yeah, sorry. You're right. It is 895 million." I 143 00:07:30,460 --> 00:07:33,010 Sean Aylmer: thought, wow, that is quite incredible. Your numbers were so 144 00:07:33,010 --> 00:07:35,420 Sean Aylmer: accurate, to begin with, but also the fact that this 145 00:07:35,420 --> 00:07:36,970 Sean Aylmer: guy had forgotten a $ 6 million house. 146 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,130 John Stensholt: Well, that's right. When you have so many assets, you tend to lose track, I 147 00:07:40,130 --> 00:07:43,090 John Stensholt: suspect. Look, you're right. I mean, they do know what 148 00:07:43,090 --> 00:07:47,870 John Stensholt: they're doing. They're very interested in where they come. It's a league table for them, in a way, that's some sort 149 00:07:47,870 --> 00:07:49,111 John Stensholt: of measure of success. 150 00:07:49,111 --> 00:07:50,930 Sean Aylmer: Do people like falling off The List? 151 00:07:51,570 --> 00:07:52,920 John Stensholt: I think they do, one year. And then if they're 152 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:54,860 John Stensholt: not on it the next, they sort of start thinking, well, 153 00:07:54,860 --> 00:07:56,970 John Stensholt: how do I get myself back on it? I've come 154 00:07:56,970 --> 00:07:59,320 John Stensholt: across that several times. I know someone this year, that 155 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,250 John Stensholt: even said, " Look, it's probably good for my business for 156 00:08:01,250 --> 00:08:03,530 John Stensholt: me to be on this. So, let's talk a bit 157 00:08:03,530 --> 00:08:06,340 John Stensholt: more of, I'm in a certain asset class, that's gone 158 00:08:06,340 --> 00:08:08,150 John Stensholt: up a lot. So, I think I'll be back on 159 00:08:08,150 --> 00:08:11,520 John Stensholt: it this year. It's good for when I talk to the banks about expanding 160 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,180 John Stensholt: or whatever." Because I mean, would you believe it gives them 161 00:08:14,180 --> 00:08:16,410 John Stensholt: a bit of credibility or a bit of public notoriety? 162 00:08:16,870 --> 00:08:19,350 Sean Aylmer: What about James Packer? 15 years ago, when you started, 163 00:08:19,350 --> 00:08:22,480 Sean Aylmer: the Packers would've always been in that top echelon, the 164 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,170 Sean Aylmer: top three or four or five. Where are the Packers now? 165 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,610 John Stensholt: I mean, James is about 4. 2 billion. Right? I 166 00:08:29,610 --> 00:08:31,960 John Stensholt: mean, some of it has been split with his sister, 167 00:08:32,140 --> 00:08:34,410 John Stensholt: obviously in recent years, but it is still less than 168 00:08:34,410 --> 00:08:38,410 John Stensholt: what the family inherited. He was number 21 on the 169 00:08:38,410 --> 00:08:40,100 John Stensholt: list. So you're right. If you would've said that a 170 00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:42,540 John Stensholt: Packer would've fallen out of the top 20, I don't 171 00:08:42,540 --> 00:08:45,890 John Stensholt: think anyone would've believed you back then. I mean, Kerry Packer 172 00:08:45,890 --> 00:08:49,000 John Stensholt: was the richest person in Australia for pretty much most 173 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,079 John Stensholt: of the eighties, all of the nineties and a little bit 174 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:55,740 John Stensholt: of the two thousands. James is obviously hoping to and about to sell out 175 00:08:55,740 --> 00:08:58,910 John Stensholt: of Crown Resorts and really will keep an extremely low 176 00:08:58,910 --> 00:09:01,679 John Stensholt: profile. Look, he still probably knows what he's worth though. 177 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:07,891 John Stensholt: So, there'll be interesting background chats, I suspect in the future, about where he should be on The List. 178 00:09:07,891 --> 00:09:10,869 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. I suppose that's it. There are a lot of background chats guys on, in your business, John. Just talking to people 179 00:09:11,470 --> 00:09:12,929 Sean Aylmer: about how rich they are, but I'm sure they don't 180 00:09:12,929 --> 00:09:13,191 Sean Aylmer: actually want to be public about it. 181 00:09:13,191 --> 00:09:17,790 John Stensholt: That's right. Not all of the chats, Sean as you know, take place on 182 00:09:17,790 --> 00:09:18,840 John Stensholt: super yachts, I'll point out. 183 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,280 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Now look, a few things I want to talk about, your NFTs and the 184 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:26,550 Sean Aylmer: philanthropic aspect of it. But I do just want to 185 00:09:26,550 --> 00:09:30,189 Sean Aylmer: mention Len Ainsworth, 98 years old, still on it. And 186 00:09:30,190 --> 00:09:32,590 Sean Aylmer: then at the other end of the spectrum is Nick 187 00:09:32,590 --> 00:09:36,270 Sean Aylmer: Molnar from Afterpay. Pretty cool that we have such a 188 00:09:36,340 --> 00:09:38,180 Sean Aylmer: range of ages on The List, John. 189 00:09:38,530 --> 00:09:42,319 John Stensholt: Yeah. I think the technology boom has really changed that. Hasn't it? I mean, it 190 00:09:42,590 --> 00:09:46,679 John Stensholt: used to take 20, 30, 40 years to become a billionaire. Now, 191 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,309 John Stensholt: you can do it by your early thirties at the latest. 192 00:09:49,309 --> 00:09:52,100 John Stensholt: I mean, even before that. Right? So yeah, it does show 193 00:09:52,100 --> 00:09:54,490 John Stensholt: you how the world's changed and how Australia's changed with it. 194 00:09:54,500 --> 00:09:59,980 John Stensholt: But the range of experiences, I mean Len, his old 195 00:09:59,980 --> 00:10:03,520 John Stensholt: poker machines manufacturing factory was being blown up with gelignite 196 00:10:03,860 --> 00:10:07,300 John Stensholt: way before Nick Molnar born. So, these people have had a 197 00:10:07,300 --> 00:10:10,839 John Stensholt: lot of experiences in their lives. You just see what 198 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,260 John Stensholt: the tech guys are going through now, too. They're doing a lot, very quickly. 199 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,030 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Now The List also reveals the top 25 donors, 200 00:10:17,030 --> 00:10:19,739 Sean Aylmer: Andrew Forrest and Frank Lowy are numbers one and two, 201 00:10:19,740 --> 00:10:25,070 Sean Aylmer: donating $ 109, 000, 051 million respectively. Is that a lot 202 00:10:25,070 --> 00:10:27,540 Sean Aylmer: of money to be donating, given that they're billionaires? 203 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:29,679 John Stensholt: Oh, well look, it depends on how much, I guess 204 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:33,179 John Stensholt: liquid cash they've got. Look, in proportional terms, I think 205 00:10:33,179 --> 00:10:36,530 John Stensholt: there's clearly still room for improvement. There's no doubt about 206 00:10:36,530 --> 00:10:40,079 John Stensholt: that. I mean, Andrew Forrest has put a good two 207 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,650 John Stensholt: and a half, almost $ 3 billion into his philanthropic foundation. He's 208 00:10:43,650 --> 00:10:47,050 John Stensholt: still worth 30. So, that's probably 10% of what he's 209 00:10:47,050 --> 00:10:49,200 John Stensholt: worth. Yeah, look. I mean, a lot of it's paper 210 00:10:49,210 --> 00:10:52,240 John Stensholt: wealth too, so you've got to get that to crystallize 211 00:10:52,309 --> 00:10:54,370 John Stensholt: it, then to actually give it away. Look, I think that they are 212 00:10:55,050 --> 00:10:57,710 John Stensholt: doing some very interesting things at earlier ages now. The 213 00:10:57,710 --> 00:11:00,770 John Stensholt: tech sector, I think in particular, leads that way. Canva's 214 00:11:00,770 --> 00:11:03,130 John Stensholt: Melanie Perkins and Cliff Obrecht have talked about giving most 215 00:11:03,179 --> 00:11:06,860 John Stensholt: of their fortune away. Richard White at WiseTech, he's a 216 00:11:07,150 --> 00:11:10,890 John Stensholt: fascinating guy. He's just put $ 50 million into his foundation, 217 00:11:10,890 --> 00:11:14,650 John Stensholt: to start STEM education programs in high schools. He says 218 00:11:14,770 --> 00:11:18,179 John Stensholt: the future is getting people educated better, to take into 219 00:11:18,179 --> 00:11:20,559 John Stensholt: account the big tech boom. So look, I mean, that 220 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,439 John Stensholt: is not just giving money away and letting someone else 221 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,130 John Stensholt: look after it. I think that he's combining his business 222 00:11:26,230 --> 00:11:30,240 John Stensholt: acumen with some altruistic purposes. I think that's a really 223 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,020 John Stensholt: interesting way of doing it. He wants other people to 224 00:11:32,020 --> 00:11:34,199 John Stensholt: join in. He doesn't want the glory for himself. He 225 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:35,840 John Stensholt: wants other people to put money into it too. 226 00:11:36,510 --> 00:11:39,600 Sean Aylmer: He is actually specifically a really fascinating person. He's on 227 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:40,839 Sean Aylmer: The list, John, is he? 228 00:11:41,429 --> 00:11:44,810 John Stensholt: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Richard's a billionaire. He's made three odd 229 00:11:45,179 --> 00:11:49,090 John Stensholt: billion dollars from software, that moves all the logistics around 230 00:11:49,090 --> 00:11:51,589 John Stensholt: the world. I mean, he deals with governments. He deals 231 00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:53,849 John Stensholt: with all sorts of ports, this, that and the other. He 232 00:11:53,850 --> 00:11:56,670 John Stensholt: knows everyone around the world. Again, just from Sydney. 233 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,280 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, incredible. Well, so this year, you've commissioned artworks of 234 00:12:00,300 --> 00:12:02,860 Sean Aylmer: 25 people featuring on The List. They're going to be 235 00:12:02,860 --> 00:12:07,530 Sean Aylmer: auctioned as non- fungible tokens, NFTs, a favorite topic on 236 00:12:07,530 --> 00:12:10,709 Sean Aylmer: Fear and Greed. We've spent many times dissecting how much 237 00:12:10,710 --> 00:12:13,910 Sean Aylmer: an NFT is worth here, John. Now, all money is 238 00:12:13,910 --> 00:12:17,240 Sean Aylmer: being raised for the Vinnie's Flood Appeal. I think it's 239 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,309 Sean Aylmer: wonderful that The List itself and The Australian is doing 240 00:12:20,309 --> 00:12:22,050 Sean Aylmer: something altruistic with it. 241 00:12:22,670 --> 00:12:24,760 John Stensholt: I think it's going to be really fascinating to see 242 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:29,150 John Stensholt: what happens, I mean, with these sort of endeavors and also 243 00:12:29,460 --> 00:12:32,840 John Stensholt: the auctioneering, I suppose. We'd like the billionaires, the rich 244 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,439 John Stensholt: people, their friends, family, grandkids, whoever knows what they're doing 245 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,959 John Stensholt: in the crypto world, to bid against each other. You're 246 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:40,250 John Stensholt: right. It is for a good purpose. 247 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,030 Sean Aylmer: Do you reckon Len Ainsworth will be bidding? 248 00:12:42,530 --> 00:12:44,179 John Stensholt: I reckon Len's got a few family members that would 249 00:12:44,179 --> 00:12:46,840 John Stensholt: have a look. I hope so. 250 00:12:47,309 --> 00:12:50,580 Sean Aylmer: Actually, I mean, it'll be interesting to see whether the individuals themselves 251 00:12:50,580 --> 00:12:54,469 Sean Aylmer: or family members, as you say, actually buy the NFTs. 252 00:12:55,090 --> 00:12:57,210 John Stensholt: Well, they might buy to take it off the market 253 00:12:57,210 --> 00:13:00,490 John Stensholt: and so no one else has it. I think they might 254 00:13:00,890 --> 00:13:02,730 John Stensholt: like to reflect on themselves too, digitally. 255 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,100 Sean Aylmer: John, it is a fantastic list, as always has been, 256 00:13:06,100 --> 00:13:08,280 Sean Aylmer: when you've put them together over the 15 years or 257 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,240 Sean Aylmer: so. Thank you very much for coming on this morning 258 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:12,310 Sean Aylmer: and talking to us on Fear and Greed. 259 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:13,310 John Stensholt: Pleasure, Sean. 260 00:13:14,050 --> 00:13:17,420 Sean Aylmer: That was John Stensholt, editor of The List, Australia's Richest 261 00:13:17,500 --> 00:13:20,809 Sean Aylmer: 250. This is a Fear and Greed daily interview. Join 262 00:13:20,809 --> 00:13:22,960 Sean Aylmer: us every morning for the full episode of Fear and 263 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:27,030 Sean Aylmer: Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy 264 00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:27,179 Sean Aylmer: your day.