1 00:00:03,900 --> 00:00:06,930 Jennifer Duke: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Jennifer 2 00:00:06,930 --> 00:00:12,030 Jennifer Duke: Duke. Right now everybody's talking about AI. The conversation ranges 3 00:00:12,030 --> 00:00:15,270 Jennifer Duke: from the global challenges over regulation, right through to how 4 00:00:15,270 --> 00:00:19,169 Jennifer Duke: businesses can best use the technology to improve productivity, but 5 00:00:19,170 --> 00:00:22,350 Jennifer Duke: clearly they want to do it safely. New research from 6 00:00:22,350 --> 00:00:25,919 Jennifer Duke: global small business platform Xero shows that 80% of small 7 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,179 Jennifer Duke: businesses are concerned that AI development and adoption is outpacing 8 00:00:30,179 --> 00:00:35,009 Jennifer Duke: regulation. James Bergin is the Executive General Manager - Technology, Strategy & 9 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,940 Jennifer Duke: Integration at Xero. He appeared last week at Xerocon, which 10 00:00:38,940 --> 00:00:42,479 Jennifer Duke: featured plenty of discussion about AI. Xero is a great 11 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:45,360 Jennifer Duke: supporter of this podcast. James, welcome to Fear and Greed. 12 00:00:46,020 --> 00:00:46,350 James Bergin: Oh, thanks, Jen, it's great to be here. 13 00:00:47,940 --> 00:00:51,598 Jennifer Duke: So that statistic is pretty remarkable. 80% of small businesses 14 00:00:51,598 --> 00:00:55,770 Jennifer Duke: are worried that AI development and adoption is outpacing regulation. 15 00:00:56,220 --> 00:00:59,130 Jennifer Duke: It shows just how quickly this technology has developed, doesn't it? 16 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,280 James Bergin: Absolutely. Yeah, it really does. It was quite an interesting 17 00:01:02,429 --> 00:01:05,490 James Bergin: stat to see coming through from the research, particularly because 18 00:01:05,490 --> 00:01:08,940 James Bergin: we still saw some positivity from small businesses in terms 19 00:01:08,940 --> 00:01:11,549 James Bergin: of wanting to explore the space, but just how fast 20 00:01:11,549 --> 00:01:14,729 James Bergin: it's moving and how quick it's moving. And particularly, even 21 00:01:14,730 --> 00:01:16,530 James Bergin: if you just think the last six to nine months 22 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,620 James Bergin: how much the average person on the street is thinking 23 00:01:19,620 --> 00:01:21,389 James Bergin: about AI, probably a lot more this year than they 24 00:01:21,389 --> 00:01:21,989 James Bergin: were last year. 25 00:01:22,679 --> 00:01:24,690 Jennifer Duke: Even my parents are now talking to me about it. 26 00:01:26,340 --> 00:01:29,039 Jennifer Duke: Always a good sign that it's popular. So your Future 27 00:01:29,039 --> 00:01:32,640 Jennifer Duke: Focus AI Research surveyed more than 3, 000 small business 28 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:37,170 Jennifer Duke: owners from Australia, Canada, the US, UK, New Zealand, and Singapore. 29 00:01:37,650 --> 00:01:39,359 Jennifer Duke: What in particular are they concerned about? 30 00:01:40,380 --> 00:01:42,360 James Bergin: There's a number of things that rose to the top 31 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,089 James Bergin: of their concerns. One of the big ones was sensitive 32 00:01:45,089 --> 00:01:48,299 James Bergin: information disclosure. So this is where, especially when you're using some 33 00:01:48,299 --> 00:01:50,700 James Bergin: of the public- facing tools, there's a bit of concern about, " 34 00:01:51,060 --> 00:01:52,890 James Bergin: Am I sharing information which is going to then be 35 00:01:52,890 --> 00:01:54,990 James Bergin: used to train some of these models? How is it 36 00:01:54,990 --> 00:01:56,790 James Bergin: going to be used? How are others going to access 37 00:01:56,790 --> 00:01:59,819 James Bergin: it?" Right up there with that concern was data privacy 38 00:01:59,820 --> 00:02:02,670 James Bergin: in general, so just violations of the data privacy concerns. 39 00:02:03,089 --> 00:02:04,860 James Bergin: And then I think a big one that's not just 40 00:02:04,889 --> 00:02:07,080 James Bergin: for small businesses but is in the economy in general, 41 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,260 James Bergin: is this question, should we say, around worker displacement. And 42 00:02:10,260 --> 00:02:13,350 James Bergin: are we going to see jobs disappear or how much 43 00:02:13,350 --> 00:02:15,599 James Bergin: does that happen when new jobs are being created? And 44 00:02:15,599 --> 00:02:18,030 James Bergin: there's a lot of uncertainty in that space. 45 00:02:18,630 --> 00:02:21,809 Jennifer Duke: Definitely. And your research also found that many businesses are 46 00:02:21,809 --> 00:02:24,960 Jennifer Duke: trying to stay ahead of the curve on AI. 32% 47 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,900 Jennifer Duke: are experimenting with AI tools. How are they managing their 48 00:02:27,900 --> 00:02:29,070 Jennifer Duke: risks at the same time? 49 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,460 James Bergin: Yeah, it's good question. Something actually that I was actually 50 00:02:32,460 --> 00:02:35,370 James Bergin: talking to a number of accountants and bookkeepers about this 51 00:02:35,370 --> 00:02:37,409 James Bergin: when we were at Xerocon the other week, just trying 52 00:02:37,410 --> 00:02:39,810 James Bergin: to see what they were seeing from their clients. And 53 00:02:39,810 --> 00:02:43,290 James Bergin: I think it ranges quite widely in terms of how 54 00:02:43,290 --> 00:02:46,679 James Bergin: people are. So we say tentatively experimenting in some cases, 55 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,840 James Bergin: and in some cases they're thrown themselves at it. One 56 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:50,580 James Bergin: of the things we talked about was being really, really 57 00:02:50,580 --> 00:02:53,758 James Bergin: clear around which data you're using when you are involved 58 00:02:53,758 --> 00:02:55,950 James Bergin: in some of these tools. At Xero we have our 59 00:02:55,950 --> 00:02:58,590 James Bergin: responsible data usage commitments. We use those to really guide 60 00:02:58,619 --> 00:03:01,380 James Bergin: all the work that we do in this space. And while 61 00:03:01,380 --> 00:03:05,130 James Bergin: small businesses might not have the equivalent commitments, having something 62 00:03:05,130 --> 00:03:06,419 James Bergin: that really guides them to go, " Well, hang on a 63 00:03:06,419 --> 00:03:09,599 James Bergin: second. Is this data that I'm using for this, is 64 00:03:09,599 --> 00:03:12,209 James Bergin: that actually sensitive? Do I know exactly where it's going? 65 00:03:12,210 --> 00:03:14,190 James Bergin: Do I know how it's being used?" These are questions 66 00:03:14,190 --> 00:03:16,350 James Bergin: that are really worth asking at the outset so that 67 00:03:16,350 --> 00:03:19,410 James Bergin: you don't find yourself a little bit tangled up later on. 68 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,100 Jennifer Duke: Are you finding that the businesses are making the mistakes 69 00:03:23,100 --> 00:03:25,380 Jennifer Duke: though, even though obviously you're trying to communicate with them, 70 00:03:25,380 --> 00:03:27,360 Jennifer Duke: are they taking unnecessary risks right now? 71 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,179 James Bergin: I don't know if it's unnecessary risks or if it's 72 00:03:30,179 --> 00:03:33,089 James Bergin: inadvertent risk. I think that sometimes people just don't ask 73 00:03:33,089 --> 00:03:36,060 James Bergin: maybe two or three questions of them themselves ahead of 74 00:03:36,119 --> 00:03:38,520 James Bergin: the action. Especially if you think about some of the 75 00:03:38,670 --> 00:03:42,000 James Bergin: public tools that have really captured the imagination of everyone 76 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,740 James Bergin: out there. It's just very easy to run into them and go, "Oh, look, 77 00:03:44,309 --> 00:03:45,510 James Bergin: this is great and I can use it for this 78 00:03:45,510 --> 00:03:46,950 James Bergin: and I can use it for this." And so I 79 00:03:46,950 --> 00:03:50,099 James Bergin: think it's just trying to really think about it in 80 00:03:50,099 --> 00:03:53,010 James Bergin: the context of what will happen if. What would happen 81 00:03:53,070 --> 00:03:54,690 James Bergin: if I use this or if I share this or 82 00:03:54,690 --> 00:03:57,030 James Bergin: if someone else had access to it. And so it's 83 00:03:57,030 --> 00:04:00,090 James Bergin: different for every small business obviously, because they have different 84 00:04:00,090 --> 00:04:02,010 James Bergin: data that they have to look after and protect as 85 00:04:02,010 --> 00:04:04,380 James Bergin: well. So there's no blanket rule. It's more a matter 86 00:04:04,380 --> 00:04:06,179 James Bergin: of trying to find what the new common sense is 87 00:04:06,179 --> 00:04:07,320 James Bergin: in this crazy new world. 88 00:04:07,889 --> 00:04:09,629 Jennifer Duke: Stay with me, James. We'll be back in a minute. 89 00:04:09,629 --> 00:04:20,160 Jennifer Duke: I am talking to James Bergin from Xero. And obviously there's a 90 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,620 Jennifer Duke: lot of priorities for businesses at the moment, but where 91 00:04:22,620 --> 00:04:25,290 Jennifer Duke: does AI rank as a priority for small businesses? 92 00:04:26,099 --> 00:04:28,650 James Bergin: We definitely saw that it was quite high, quite high 93 00:04:29,070 --> 00:04:32,460 James Bergin: as an area for exploration. It was up there. A 94 00:04:32,460 --> 00:04:34,500 James Bergin: lot of it does depend on the industry that the 95 00:04:34,500 --> 00:04:37,770 James Bergin: small business is operating in as well. There are some 96 00:04:37,890 --> 00:04:39,960 James Bergin: industries where it's a little bit more closer to the 97 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,049 James Bergin: surface, shall we say, than in others. But definitely exploring 98 00:04:43,049 --> 00:04:46,618 James Bergin: and experimenting was, in our survey anyway, ranked very highly, 99 00:04:46,709 --> 00:04:48,029 James Bergin: and that was pretty much across the board. 100 00:04:48,029 --> 00:04:50,010 Jennifer Duke: Were you surprised by that? 101 00:04:50,550 --> 00:04:52,859 James Bergin: I don't know if I was surprised, mainly because there's 102 00:04:52,860 --> 00:04:56,070 James Bergin: been so much coverage of this. And we talked a 103 00:04:56,070 --> 00:04:59,940 James Bergin: little bit at Xerocon about the classic Hype Cycle. If 104 00:04:59,940 --> 00:05:01,859 James Bergin: you take Gartner's Hype Cycle and you see where these 105 00:05:01,860 --> 00:05:05,279 James Bergin: technologies are, and particularly when they're close to that what 106 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,589 James Bergin: they call the peak of inflated expectations. It's called that 107 00:05:07,589 --> 00:05:09,360 James Bergin: for a reason. And I think that a lot of people 108 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:11,880 James Bergin: get very excited about it. I think seeing that small 109 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,809 James Bergin: businesses were on both hands, that they were concerned that 110 00:05:15,809 --> 00:05:18,689 James Bergin: the development was moving faster than regulation and in many 111 00:05:18,690 --> 00:05:21,299 James Bergin: cases calling for regulation. And on the other end, they're 112 00:05:21,299 --> 00:05:24,660 James Bergin: still actively experimenting and investing in these tools and dedicating 113 00:05:24,660 --> 00:05:28,320 James Bergin: time to using them. So it's almost like small businesses 114 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:32,010 James Bergin: are reflecting what I think most consumers are reflecting, which is, " 115 00:05:32,220 --> 00:05:35,368 James Bergin: This is interesting, these new technologies are unlocking new capabilities. 116 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,768 James Bergin: Can they help me solve new problems, or can they 117 00:05:37,770 --> 00:05:40,139 James Bergin: help me solve old problems in new ways?" And I 118 00:05:40,139 --> 00:05:42,540 James Bergin: think they're wrestling with that same, " Oh, how do we 119 00:05:42,540 --> 00:05:44,640 James Bergin: do that?" And at the same time, " Oh, it's a bit scary. I'm 120 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,560 James Bergin: not quite sure how it all works." And that's where 121 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,960 James Bergin: we've seen quite a lot of demand towards Xero for 122 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,409 James Bergin: helping with education and awareness and helping understand how these 123 00:05:52,410 --> 00:05:54,270 James Bergin: technologies work and how best to use them. 124 00:05:55,170 --> 00:05:57,928 Jennifer Duke: What are some of those tools available for businesses to 125 00:05:57,928 --> 00:06:01,259 Jennifer Duke: educate themselves, and how does Xero come into that picture? 126 00:06:02,490 --> 00:06:06,120 James Bergin: We launched a thing called Future Focus, which is pretty self-explanatory. 127 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,479 James Bergin: We focus on the future. And we did this last year 128 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,839 James Bergin: and started to cover a number of emerging technologies. If 129 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,839 James Bergin: you think about some of the cryptocurrencies and blockchain, some of 130 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,440 James Bergin: those ones, through to digital payments and obviously artificial intelligence. 131 00:06:19,860 --> 00:06:21,930 James Bergin: And so we've continued to create a number of those 132 00:06:21,990 --> 00:06:25,770 James Bergin: videos and blogs and just creating content that isn't selling 133 00:06:25,770 --> 00:06:27,330 James Bergin: a concept or a product per se, it's more a 134 00:06:27,330 --> 00:06:29,849 James Bergin: matter of explaining it from our perspective. And then we've 135 00:06:29,849 --> 00:06:32,729 James Bergin: continued to build on that. So as part of Xerocon 136 00:06:32,730 --> 00:06:35,820 James Bergin: we published a Future Focus guide, well, AI guide, for 137 00:06:35,820 --> 00:06:38,368 James Bergin: accountants and bookkeepers, to help them navigate the impact of 138 00:06:38,370 --> 00:06:41,370 James Bergin: AI on their practices and their clients. And we've continued 139 00:06:41,370 --> 00:06:44,190 James Bergin: to create content wherever we can really, just trying to 140 00:06:44,610 --> 00:06:46,830 James Bergin: leverage some of the expertise that we have in- house 141 00:06:46,830 --> 00:06:49,260 James Bergin: because we've got some incredibly smart people who work for us. 142 00:06:49,559 --> 00:06:52,139 James Bergin: And they're very generous with their time, and they're more 143 00:06:52,139 --> 00:06:54,779 James Bergin: than happy to share their expertise with our customers and 144 00:06:54,779 --> 00:06:55,260 James Bergin: our community. 145 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,380 Jennifer Duke: And last week, also at Xerocon, there was a lot 146 00:06:58,380 --> 00:07:01,500 Jennifer Duke: of talk about how Xero's incorporating AI into its own 147 00:07:01,500 --> 00:07:03,748 Jennifer Duke: platform. Can you take me through how that works, what 148 00:07:03,750 --> 00:07:06,299 Jennifer Duke: it looks like, and what kind of difference it makes 149 00:07:06,300 --> 00:07:07,500 Jennifer Duke: to how businesses can operate? 150 00:07:08,549 --> 00:07:10,199 James Bergin: Yeah, sure. I mean, one of the things that's interesting 151 00:07:10,199 --> 00:07:13,200 James Bergin: about AI is it's not actually a new technology, it's 152 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,110 James Bergin: been around in one form or another for decades now. 153 00:07:16,380 --> 00:07:19,230 James Bergin: Obviously in the last, say, 12 to 18 months there's 154 00:07:19,230 --> 00:07:21,990 James Bergin: been a lot of exploration of generative AI in particular. 155 00:07:22,530 --> 00:07:24,750 James Bergin: And so what we talked about at Xerocon is the fact 156 00:07:24,750 --> 00:07:27,599 James Bergin: that we've got AI powering a number of our core products, 157 00:07:27,599 --> 00:07:29,729 James Bergin: have been there for a while. We talked about some 158 00:07:29,730 --> 00:07:32,910 James Bergin: enhancements that we're putting in place. For example, our bank 159 00:07:32,910 --> 00:07:36,030 James Bergin: reconciliation process, we've just enhanced the AI so that it 160 00:07:36,030 --> 00:07:39,120 James Bergin: will populate new contacts that aren't already in the business's 161 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,460 James Bergin: contact list, so we'll be able to infer that. Or 162 00:07:41,460 --> 00:07:44,129 James Bergin: we've made some changes to our short- term cashflow forecasting, 163 00:07:44,190 --> 00:07:48,420 James Bergin: which will now include predictions for regular, repeated invoices and 164 00:07:48,450 --> 00:07:50,820 James Bergin: invoice and bill payments. So it's taking some of these 165 00:07:50,820 --> 00:07:54,390 James Bergin: capabilities that we've already had in-market and then tweaked the 166 00:07:54,390 --> 00:07:56,550 James Bergin: AI or continue to evolve it so that it has 167 00:07:56,550 --> 00:07:59,279 James Bergin: more capabilities. And then we're also looking at some of 168 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,559 James Bergin: the generative AI and looking at how we can experiment 169 00:08:01,559 --> 00:08:03,660 James Bergin: with that. And we use that word deliberately because it 170 00:08:03,660 --> 00:08:06,420 James Bergin: is an experiment. It is looking at things like, for example, 171 00:08:06,809 --> 00:08:10,680 James Bergin: Xero Central, which is our help database that helps customers 172 00:08:10,830 --> 00:08:13,020 James Bergin: understand how to use the product. Is there ways where 173 00:08:13,020 --> 00:08:16,949 James Bergin: we can use some of the conversational capabilities that come 174 00:08:16,950 --> 00:08:20,099 James Bergin: from generative AI tools to deliver a better customer experience, 175 00:08:20,099 --> 00:08:23,399 James Bergin: when it comes to ... Instead of a search returning content, 176 00:08:23,459 --> 00:08:25,890 James Bergin: which is what the current AI provides, what about if 177 00:08:25,890 --> 00:08:28,680 James Bergin: a question returns an answer, which is more where we 178 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,040 James Bergin: are thinking about with these generative AI experiments. So really, 179 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,620 James Bergin: AI is not new, it's not new to us, but 180 00:08:34,620 --> 00:08:36,540 James Bergin: what we're continuing to do is to think about it in 181 00:08:36,660 --> 00:08:39,270 James Bergin: the context of the problems we're trying to solve for customers. 182 00:08:39,570 --> 00:08:41,819 James Bergin: And do these capabilities enable that in a new way. 183 00:08:42,749 --> 00:08:45,090 Jennifer Duke: Can you give me some examples of the types of 184 00:08:45,090 --> 00:08:47,250 Jennifer Duke: businesses and types of customers that you're getting a lot 185 00:08:47,250 --> 00:08:49,890 Jennifer Duke: of interest from. I mean, particular sectors, perhaps? 186 00:08:50,460 --> 00:08:52,559 James Bergin: I don't know if there's a particular sector that comes 187 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,080 James Bergin: to the top of mind. I think it's more we're 188 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,809 James Bergin: seeing a lot of interest ... If you think about industries 189 00:08:57,809 --> 00:09:00,268 James Bergin: that are focused on content creation, then obviously they are 190 00:09:00,300 --> 00:09:03,390 James Bergin: more interested in generative AI in particular because of the 191 00:09:03,390 --> 00:09:06,870 James Bergin: nature of the AI is that it's very driven towards 192 00:09:06,870 --> 00:09:09,630 James Bergin: creating content, generating content. So I think some of those 193 00:09:09,630 --> 00:09:12,150 James Bergin: that are operating in those sectors are quite interested about, " 194 00:09:12,150 --> 00:09:15,059 James Bergin: What does this mean for me if I'm a digital 195 00:09:15,059 --> 00:09:17,250 James Bergin: marketing agency or if I'm a digital artist, what does 196 00:09:17,250 --> 00:09:19,230 James Bergin: that mean when I'm using a tool ... When someone else 197 00:09:19,230 --> 00:09:22,260 James Bergin: can create an image using a tool that doesn't use 198 00:09:22,260 --> 00:09:24,390 James Bergin: me?" So I think there's some of those industries where 199 00:09:24,390 --> 00:09:28,050 James Bergin: the generative AI in particular is more, as I say, 200 00:09:28,050 --> 00:09:30,389 James Bergin: close to the surface. I think for the rest of 201 00:09:30,389 --> 00:09:32,549 James Bergin: the industries it was more a matter of all of 202 00:09:32,549 --> 00:09:34,529 James Bergin: them are asking, " Well, what does this mean for me? 203 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,470 James Bergin: What does this mean if I'm more driven around calculations 204 00:09:37,470 --> 00:09:40,078 James Bergin: and insight? Does that mean that generative AI, with it's 205 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:45,030 James Bergin: sometimes, shall we say, creative responses to questions, is that 206 00:09:45,030 --> 00:09:46,500 James Bergin: something that I need to be worried about? Is it 207 00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:48,929 James Bergin: something that I need to be leveraging?" Accountants and bookkeepers 208 00:09:48,929 --> 00:09:51,509 James Bergin: themselves are asking questions about what this means when it 209 00:09:51,509 --> 00:09:54,029 James Bergin: comes to some of the insights that they provide. And 210 00:09:54,029 --> 00:09:56,400 James Bergin: we talk about at Xero, our vision is to be 211 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,860 James Bergin: one of the most trusted and insightful, or the most 212 00:09:58,860 --> 00:10:02,189 James Bergin: trusted and insightful small business platform. And in doing that 213 00:10:02,250 --> 00:10:05,099 James Bergin: we have to have a balance between the insights and 214 00:10:05,099 --> 00:10:07,139 James Bergin: how we provide the right insights at the right time, 215 00:10:07,710 --> 00:10:10,469 James Bergin: and the trust. So how do you ensure that those 216 00:10:10,469 --> 00:10:12,780 James Bergin: are insights you can trust? And I think that's something 217 00:10:12,780 --> 00:10:15,300 James Bergin: that's quite emerged from a number of different industries. It's 218 00:10:15,300 --> 00:10:18,000 James Bergin: not really a particular sector, but it's more saying, yes, 219 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,030 James Bergin: that balance of insight and trust is what they're looking for. 220 00:10:21,690 --> 00:10:24,389 Jennifer Duke: And that trust element is obviously very critical. And it 221 00:10:24,389 --> 00:10:28,049 Jennifer Duke: sounds like Xero's being incredibly thoughtful about the integration of 222 00:10:28,379 --> 00:10:31,739 Jennifer Duke: AI in different technologies. Is that part of the way that 223 00:10:32,100 --> 00:10:34,440 Jennifer Duke: businesses can mitigate that risk? Is it being careful about 224 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:35,939 Jennifer Duke: the partners that they choose to work with? 225 00:10:36,660 --> 00:10:39,120 James Bergin: I mean, I think so, absolutely. I think that being 226 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:43,170 James Bergin: clear on what is underpinning the decisions that are being 227 00:10:43,170 --> 00:10:46,679 James Bergin: made by the partners, the organisations, the platforms that small 228 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,220 James Bergin: businesses use, is a really important question to ask. And 229 00:10:50,220 --> 00:10:52,559 James Bergin: I think if you look in our context, we are 230 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,140 James Bergin: really having that vision of being the most trusted and 231 00:10:55,140 --> 00:10:57,420 James Bergin: insightful at the top. And then, as I mentioned before, 232 00:10:57,420 --> 00:11:01,500 James Bergin: our responsible data usage commitments. These aren't just phrases. These 233 00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:03,870 James Bergin: are things that are really at the core, the principles 234 00:11:03,900 --> 00:11:07,140 James Bergin: of how we make the decisions for deploying the technology 235 00:11:07,140 --> 00:11:09,000 James Bergin: that we're using. So we are very public about that, 236 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,790 James Bergin: we say, " Here are our responsible data usage commitments. This 237 00:11:11,790 --> 00:11:14,069 James Bergin: is what we're holding ourselves to." And I think that 238 00:11:14,130 --> 00:11:17,940 James Bergin: that's something that, for all small businesses to consider, when 239 00:11:17,940 --> 00:11:20,130 James Bergin: they're thinking about using a platform. Especially when we go 240 00:11:20,130 --> 00:11:23,429 James Bergin: back to those risks, those concerns that they highlighted in 241 00:11:23,429 --> 00:11:25,530 James Bergin: the survey back to us, if they're worried about sensitive 242 00:11:25,530 --> 00:11:28,858 James Bergin: information disclosure or they're worried about data privacy, these are 243 00:11:28,860 --> 00:11:31,740 James Bergin: things which it's important to ask of the tools and 244 00:11:31,740 --> 00:11:33,689 James Bergin: the platforms that they're using as well. So yeah, I 245 00:11:33,690 --> 00:11:34,800 James Bergin: do think it's very, very important. 246 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:37,590 Jennifer Duke: I think that's excellent. James, thank you so much for 247 00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:38,640 Jennifer Duke: talking to Fear and Greed. 248 00:11:39,270 --> 00:11:40,920 James Bergin: My pleasure, Jennifer. Thanks very much for having me. 249 00:11:41,670 --> 00:11:45,510 Jennifer Duke: And that was James Bergin, Executive General Manager - Technology, Strategy & 250 00:11:45,510 --> 00:11:48,660 Jennifer Duke: Integration at Xero, which is a supporter of this podcast. 251 00:11:49,110 --> 00:11:51,450 Jennifer Duke: This is The Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join us 252 00:11:51,510 --> 00:11:53,940 Jennifer Duke: every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, 253 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:58,139 Jennifer Duke: Australia's best business podcast. I'm Jennifer Duke, Economics Correspondent for 254 00:11:58,139 --> 00:12:00,718 Jennifer Duke: Capital Brief, and filling in for Sean Aylmer. Have a 255 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:01,260 Jennifer Duke: great day.