Speaker 1: Okay, we're recording here, if you're recording there, Susan, how
Speaker 1: do you see the task ahead to unify, to rebuild,
Speaker 1: reach out. I guess the size and timing of it.
Speaker 1: And do you have a message for anyone who might underestimate.
Speaker 2: You, Karen, It's important that when we look ahead, we
Speaker 2: respect modern Australia, we reflect modern Australia, and we represent
Speaker 2: modern Australia.
Speaker 3: Karen Barlow is the Saturday Paper's chief political correspondent. She
Speaker 3: sat down with a new opposition leader, Susan Lee, to
Speaker 3: talk about how she plans to stitch the coalition back
Speaker 3: together after its record May three defeat. A wife from
Speaker 3: roused about the pilot the Parliament, she's spent a lifetime
Speaker 3: proving doubt is wrong.
Speaker 4: I don't mind what people think is me.
Speaker 2: My mum always used to say what people think of
Speaker 2: you as none of your business.
Speaker 4: Just get on and do your job.
Speaker 3: From Schwartz Media, I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM today.
Speaker 3: Karen Barlow will the story the Liberal Party's first female leader,
Speaker 3: who plans in opposition and whether she can turn a
Speaker 3: shadded party into a credible alternative. It's Monday, June two.
Speaker 1: Appreciating that you're here now, Will you, as leader, unlike
Speaker 1: your predecessor, continue to put yourself regularly before the Canberra
Speaker 1: Press Gallery and before a broad section.
Speaker 3: Karen, when Susan Lee you first became leader a couple
Speaker 3: of weeks ago, you asked her if she would commit
Speaker 3: to putting herself in front of a broad section of
Speaker 3: the media. This is one of the first questions she
Speaker 3: actually got as leader. What do you think? That was
Speaker 3: an important question to ask her.
Speaker 1: It's just important to get that on the record, accountability
Speaker 1: and to air ideas. Yes, I will, Sarah, And it
Speaker 1: was an important factor, not the entire factor, but an
Speaker 1: important factor in what went wrong for Peter Dutton. And
Speaker 1: you know he didn't really put himself before the Canberra
Speaker 1: Press Gallery and when it finally came to the election campaign,
Speaker 1: he was not match fit and alban Easy absolutely was
Speaker 1: and it really showed so on this absolutely she said
Speaker 1: she is going to put herself before a broad section
Speaker 1: of the media. As I asked the question, it was
Speaker 1: for transparency, accountability and just airing ideas. You have to
Speaker 1: look at the absolute debarcle of the work from Home
Speaker 1: idea for Peter Dutton and Jane Hume. It was not
Speaker 1: aired and when it finally got sort of it landed
Speaker 1: in the middle of the election campaign. It was a stinker,
Speaker 1: and they could have known beforehand that it was going
Speaker 1: to be a stinker.
Speaker 3: And now you've had a chance to speak one on
Speaker 3: one with Susan Lee, and you started by asking her
Speaker 3: whether she had a message for anyone who might underestimate her.
Speaker 3: Her answer was really interesting, can you tell me about it?
Speaker 1: So, I mean, this is Susan Lee still introducing as
Speaker 1: it has been an atypical path to politics for Susan Lee.
Speaker 1: And in talking about this question of whether she's been underestimated,
Speaker 1: she brings up not just a parliamentary career, but the
Speaker 1: career before that.
Speaker 2: Well, I've been underestimated a lot in my career. As
Speaker 2: a rouse about picking up fleeces in sharing shed in
Speaker 2: western Queensland, I was told I wouldn't be strong enough
Speaker 2: to pick up eight hundred fleeces a day and run
Speaker 2: up and down aboard of about eight sharers, and I
Speaker 2: did in forty degree heat.
Speaker 4: It was a good lesson in life.
Speaker 2: And I was probably underestimated as a female flying aeroplanes.
Speaker 2: No one thought i'd be able to get a job
Speaker 2: as a pilot, and I ended up mustering, which was
Speaker 2: flying very small aeroplanes very close to the ground, and
Speaker 2: I think people underestimated me there too, So I don't
Speaker 2: mind what people think of me.
Speaker 1: After being the rout about and the pilot helping with mustering.
Speaker 1: She's a thirty year old on the farm and she
Speaker 1: tells us that she study economics to get extra income.
Speaker 1: There's drought periods, there's difficulties on the farm, and this
Speaker 1: is something that she had to do for the family. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: she did pursue a path to Canberra, but it wasn't planned,
Speaker 1: she said.
Speaker 2: When I hooked up the caravan and headed off down
Speaker 2: the river, it was a funny experience because I expected
Speaker 2: that people would want to acknowledge my economics degree and
Speaker 2: I had a master's in tax law and accounting qualifications,
Speaker 2: and in fact they didn't want any of that. They
Speaker 2: just wanted to know that I was a person who
Speaker 2: understood what their lives were like and who was prepared
Speaker 2: to listen to them.
Speaker 3: What did she have to say about the state of
Speaker 3: politics when she arrived in Canberra in the state of
Speaker 3: the Liberal Party.
Speaker 1: When she arrived, she arrived in the John Howard years.
Speaker 1: She's two thousand and one, actually the same year that
Speaker 1: Peter Dutton came into Parliament. But she's someone who had
Speaker 1: a background on the farm with a family, and she
Speaker 1: writes and it is loki.
Speaker 2: Everyone stood up and they had you know, they had
Speaker 2: a lot to say. And I enjoyed the spirited debate
Speaker 2: between different ideas and different thoughts within our party room.
Speaker 4: In terms of being a woman in that building.
Speaker 2: Look, I had previous life experience as a woman in
Speaker 2: careers that were dominated by men, so it wasn't altogether unfamiliar.
Speaker 1: She quickly got an assistant minister's position, She moved through
Speaker 1: the rank. She has been the Minister for Health, she
Speaker 1: has been the Minister for the Environment. She's had her
Speaker 1: ups and downs, and you know this has made her
Speaker 1: the tough woman politician that she now is as leader
Speaker 1: of the Liberal Party.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if we talk a little bit about the ups
Speaker 3: and downs. In twenty seventeen, she had to resign as
Speaker 3: Health Minister after she used a taxpayer funded trip to
Speaker 3: buy an apartment on the Gold Coast. You asked her
Speaker 3: about the highs and layers of her career. Talk to
Speaker 3: me about how she's framing that now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I asked her about that in particular because it
Speaker 1: came up in the press conference when she was asked
Speaker 1: about the demotion of Jane Hume. She was the Finance
Speaker 1: spokesperson and she's gone back to the back bench.
Speaker 2: These are tough days, and having been through many days
Speaker 2: like this myself in my parliamentary career, I recognize that.
Speaker 1: But what I do want to say, so, yes, I
Speaker 1: asked her about that, and she's pointing out that she
Speaker 1: is a survivor.
Speaker 2: I've become stronger and wiser for the tough times, and
Speaker 2: having been sent to the back bench in the past,
Speaker 2: I do know what it feels like. And I want
Speaker 2: to say that one of the things I believe in
Speaker 2: having been in that Parliament for twenty five years, is
Speaker 2: it no matter where you sit, whatever seat you sit
Speaker 2: in in the House of Representatives or the Senate, my
Speaker 2: seat is better or worse than another, and you've got
Speaker 2: an opportunity to contribute, to advocate.
Speaker 1: The challenge from Angus Taylor with the leadership ballot was
Speaker 1: very very close and may become closer still with the
Speaker 1: change over the Senate at the end of June, and
Speaker 1: so there's a question of whether she's got reading space.
Speaker 1: Most observers would say she has breathing space at the moment,
Speaker 1: but that may whittle down. And so you know, this
Speaker 1: is the moment where she's been tested as the Liberal leader.
Speaker 1: She's just got through this enormous rift with the National
Speaker 1: Party and to survive that and stood up for the
Speaker 1: Liberal Party. And now she has to face down Parliament
Speaker 1: returning at the end of July.
Speaker 3: After the break. The challenge ahead for Susan Lee, Karen.
Speaker 3: Susan Lee has a huge task ahead of her to
Speaker 3: rebuild the Liberal Party. That starts with facing up to
Speaker 3: the wipeout they just suffered. How is she talking about
Speaker 3: their loss?
Speaker 1: Well, I did ask her whether she could pinpoint anything
Speaker 1: about the loss to explain it, and she said, well,
Speaker 1: you know that if I did so, that would get
Speaker 1: ahead of the review that is coming. But she did
Speaker 1: say absolutely that there was a problem with women.
Speaker 2: I always want to see more women join our party.
Speaker 2: I always want more women seeing us as the party
Speaker 2: that they would naturally choose to support.
Speaker 1: But it's widely seeing that Peter Dutton did have an
Speaker 1: issue with women voters. Susan Lee did have the portfolio
Speaker 1: of women. It's now been given to Melissa Macintosh, the
Speaker 1: Member for lindsay In out of Sydney. She's got that
Speaker 1: alongside Communications, so you know, she's really sort of putting
Speaker 1: her mark on her front bench, really highlighting this return
Speaker 1: to doing something about women.
Speaker 2: At every policy discussion where the big calls are made,
Speaker 2: I'll be sitting at that table and I'll be seeing
Speaker 2: the decisions that we make through the lens of women.
Speaker 2: So many of the women that I met during the campaign,
Speaker 2: that I stood on those polling booths and chatted to,
Speaker 2: and that I heard what they wanted to see from
Speaker 2: their political representatives.
Speaker 1: And she is really pointing out that there is a
Speaker 1: new portfolio in the field of urban Infrastructure and City
Speaker 1: that's been given to James McGrath that's seen as addressing
Speaker 1: the problem that the Liberal Party has had in urban areas.
Speaker 1: There is a new recasting going on, but we don't
Speaker 1: really know about the policies going forward because that's under review.
Speaker 3: So Caro seasonally has well and truly proved her credentials
Speaker 3: as an MP for a large rural electorate. One of
Speaker 3: the things that the Liberal Party failed to do at
Speaker 3: the last election was really retake any of the till
Speaker 3: seats into any sort of large way. What are her
Speaker 3: challenges in terms of being able to connect with urban electorates. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I asked her about whether it's a stretch for her
Speaker 1: to understand voters in urban centers, and she absolutely insisted
Speaker 1: that it's not.
Speaker 2: Lived in Melbourne and I lived in Camera as a
Speaker 2: young person, so I've lived an experienced life in the
Speaker 2: cities and sometimes I think the city country divide is overrated.
Speaker 2: And you know, we're Australians and we have the connections
Speaker 2: between ourselves, between city and country.
Speaker 1: Living in Canberra and myself Canberra is not a big city.
Speaker 1: But it is an enormous task and it's not just
Speaker 1: for her, it's for her entire party room. These members
Speaker 1: have to reach out now from there, now outer suburban
Speaker 1: seats or even regional seats and understand the cities. She
Speaker 1: insists that the party absolutely fought for the Teal seats. Again,
Speaker 1: you just have to look at Tim Wilson returned in Goldstein.
Speaker 1: Perhaps it's still endowed at this stage, Giselle Capterian in Bradfield.
Speaker 1: They did fight for those and they have to work
Speaker 1: harder at getting more back if they want any chance
Speaker 1: of returning to government.
Speaker 3: What type of coalition leader do you think Susan Lee
Speaker 3: is going to be?
Speaker 1: Well, she certainly made much about being more consultative. She
Speaker 1: has spoken to former Liberal leaders. Do you consult with
Speaker 1: former Liberal leaders Howard, Nelson, Abbott, Turnbull Morrison? Would you
Speaker 1: nominate any that you might reach out to. I know
Speaker 1: you've mentioned John Howard a few times in the space
Speaker 1: that you're in when you arrived, I've.
Speaker 2: Been in touch with all of them important former leaders
Speaker 2: of our party, and always they have wisdom to add,
Speaker 2: not just the previous leaders, but the future leaders.
Speaker 4: Can I say Karen that I might idea?
Speaker 1: But she also shifted pretty quickly to future leaders. And
Speaker 1: she is someone that says that she's always on the
Speaker 1: lookout for young women who might have a part to play,
Speaker 1: whether it's local politics or federal politics. And she sees
Speaker 1: in opposition it's not really a top down exercise. She
Speaker 1: sees it as an opportunity to listen from the grass
Speaker 1: roots up. And she likes to say that this is
Speaker 1: a very flat in terms of structure, So we'll see
Speaker 1: how that goes. Certainly, it's early days in her leadership.
Speaker 1: She's certainly doing things differently at the start. And Peter
Speaker 1: Dutton and.
Speaker 3: Why didn't she tell you about her role as opposition
Speaker 3: leader in terms of holding the government to account.
Speaker 1: This is an interesting question because you know we're all
Speaker 1: looking at Anthony Alberesi and how confident he is with
Speaker 1: this supermajority now of ninety four Labor members in the
Speaker 1: House of Representatives. Certainly, you know there's an opportunity for
Speaker 1: Labor there. But now for the Liberal Party, what is
Speaker 1: going to be the approach And certainly you can't discount
Speaker 1: the issue of gender here and how is he going
Speaker 1: to take on Susan Lee as a female leader of
Speaker 1: the Liberal Party. It will be interesting in parliament to
Speaker 1: see how that will play out. But I asked about
Speaker 1: how she's going to square up with Alberzi, and she
Speaker 1: says she's ready.
Speaker 2: I'm going to approach the Prime minister respectfully, he's been elected,
Speaker 2: he's got a strong majority, and I respect the wishes
Speaker 2: of the Australian people that he is the prime minister.
Speaker 2: So that's the first thing, and that's what every Australian
Speaker 2: would expect of me.
Speaker 1: She highlights the areas of foreign policy and national security
Speaker 1: usually areas where the coalition and labor are in lockstep.
Speaker 1: But it's going to be then interesting where there'll be
Speaker 1: points of disagreement and how Susan Lee and Anthony Albanezi
Speaker 1: will actually be able to do deals or not or
Speaker 1: change change each others forward thinking. But she says that
Speaker 1: she's up for the fight.
Speaker 3: And finally, Karen, she's taken over the leadership at the
Speaker 3: Liberal Party's darkest dep She's managed to hold the coalition
Speaker 3: together during some fractured times in her early weeks in
Speaker 3: that leadership. So what are the next big tests for seasonally?
Speaker 1: Well, I would say she's turning attention now to Parliament
Speaker 1: returning at the end of July. There'll be the process
Speaker 1: for starting the review of policies and she'll be needing
Speaker 1: to appoint with other elements of a party who is
Speaker 1: going to lead the review of this devastating election loss.
Speaker 1: There's question marks over whether the polster for the Liberal
Speaker 1: Party that failed them so miserably will continue. Certainly that's
Speaker 1: not for Susan Lee to decide, but that's in her space.
Speaker 1: And there is the question mark about, you know, the
Speaker 1: future of some of the people in the Federal division.
Speaker 1: The leaders there, people like Andrew Hurst, whether they're going
Speaker 1: to continue in their jobs because honestly, it's been such
Speaker 1: a thumping loss for the Liberal Party and something has
Speaker 1: to change.
Speaker 3: I don't interviewer to ask Karen, thank you so much
Speaker 3: for your time, Thank you so much. Also in the
Speaker 3: news today, Prime Minister Anthony Alberizi has pushed back against
Speaker 3: the US call to drastically boost defense spending, saying Asustralia
Speaker 3: will determine our own defense policy and has already committed
Speaker 3: an extra ten billion in defense spending over the next
Speaker 3: four years. The comments come as Donald Trump announced a
Speaker 3: doubling of tariffs and steel and aluminum I move Albanez
Speaker 3: he calls an act of economic self harm. And Russia
Speaker 3: has launched a new wave of air assaults on Kiev,
Speaker 3: with drone and missile attacks killing at least two people,
Speaker 3: including a nine year old girl. Evacuations have been ordered
Speaker 3: in more than two hundred settlements in Ukraine's Sumi region
Speaker 3: as officials warn of potential new Russian offensive. You've been
Speaker 3: listening to seven am. We'll be back tomorrow.