WEBVTT - Sussan Ley: ‘I’ve been underestimated a lot’

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, we're recording here, if you're recording there, Susan, how

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<v Speaker 1>do you see the task ahead to unify, to rebuild,

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<v Speaker 1>reach out. I guess the size and timing of it.

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<v Speaker 1>And do you have a message for anyone who might underestimate.

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<v Speaker 2>You, Karen, It's important that when we look ahead, we

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<v Speaker 2>respect modern Australia, we reflect modern Australia, and we represent

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<v Speaker 2>modern Australia.

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<v Speaker 3>Karen Barlow is the Saturday Paper's chief political correspondent. She

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<v Speaker 3>sat down with a new opposition leader, Susan Lee, to

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<v Speaker 3>talk about how she plans to stitch the coalition back

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<v Speaker 3>together after its record May three defeat. A wife from

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<v Speaker 3>roused about the pilot the Parliament, she's spent a lifetime

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<v Speaker 3>proving doubt is wrong.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't mind what people think is me.

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<v Speaker 2>My mum always used to say what people think of

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<v Speaker 2>you as none of your business.

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<v Speaker 4>Just get on and do your job.

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<v Speaker 3>From Schwartz Media, I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM today.

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<v Speaker 3>Karen Barlow will the story the Liberal Party's first female leader,

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<v Speaker 3>who plans in opposition and whether she can turn a

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<v Speaker 3>shadded party into a credible alternative. It's Monday, June two.

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<v Speaker 1>Appreciating that you're here now, Will you, as leader, unlike

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<v Speaker 1>your predecessor, continue to put yourself regularly before the Canberra

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<v Speaker 1>Press Gallery and before a broad section.

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<v Speaker 3>Karen, when Susan Lee you first became leader a couple

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<v Speaker 3>of weeks ago, you asked her if she would commit

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<v Speaker 3>to putting herself in front of a broad section of

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<v Speaker 3>the media. This is one of the first questions she

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<v Speaker 3>actually got as leader. What do you think? That was

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<v Speaker 3>an important question to ask her.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just important to get that on the record, accountability

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<v Speaker 1>and to air ideas. Yes, I will, Sarah, And it

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<v Speaker 1>was an important factor, not the entire factor, but an

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<v Speaker 1>important factor in what went wrong for Peter Dutton. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know he didn't really put himself before the Canberra

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<v Speaker 1>Press Gallery and when it finally came to the election campaign,

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<v Speaker 1>he was not match fit and alban Easy absolutely was

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<v Speaker 1>and it really showed so on this absolutely she said

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<v Speaker 1>she is going to put herself before a broad section

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<v Speaker 1>of the media. As I asked the question, it was

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<v Speaker 1>for transparency, accountability and just airing ideas. You have to

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<v Speaker 1>look at the absolute debarcle of the work from Home

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<v Speaker 1>idea for Peter Dutton and Jane Hume. It was not

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<v Speaker 1>aired and when it finally got sort of it landed

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<v Speaker 1>in the middle of the election campaign. It was a stinker,

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<v Speaker 1>and they could have known beforehand that it was going

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<v Speaker 1>to be a stinker.

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<v Speaker 3>And now you've had a chance to speak one on

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<v Speaker 3>one with Susan Lee, and you started by asking her

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<v Speaker 3>whether she had a message for anyone who might underestimate her.

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<v Speaker 3>Her answer was really interesting, can you tell me about it?

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<v Speaker 1>So, I mean, this is Susan Lee still introducing as

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<v Speaker 1>it has been an atypical path to politics for Susan Lee.

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<v Speaker 1>And in talking about this question of whether she's been underestimated,

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<v Speaker 1>she brings up not just a parliamentary career, but the

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<v Speaker 1>career before that.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I've been underestimated a lot in my career. As

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<v Speaker 2>a rouse about picking up fleeces in sharing shed in

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<v Speaker 2>western Queensland, I was told I wouldn't be strong enough

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<v Speaker 2>to pick up eight hundred fleeces a day and run

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<v Speaker 2>up and down aboard of about eight sharers, and I

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<v Speaker 2>did in forty degree heat.

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<v Speaker 4>It was a good lesson in life.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was probably underestimated as a female flying aeroplanes.

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<v Speaker 2>No one thought i'd be able to get a job

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<v Speaker 2>as a pilot, and I ended up mustering, which was

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<v Speaker 2>flying very small aeroplanes very close to the ground, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think people underestimated me there too, So I don't

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<v Speaker 2>mind what people think of me.

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<v Speaker 1>After being the rout about and the pilot helping with mustering.

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<v Speaker 1>She's a thirty year old on the farm and she

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<v Speaker 1>tells us that she study economics to get extra income.

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<v Speaker 1>There's drought periods, there's difficulties on the farm, and this

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<v Speaker 1>is something that she had to do for the family. Ultimately,

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<v Speaker 1>she did pursue a path to Canberra, but it wasn't planned,

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<v Speaker 1>she said.

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<v Speaker 2>When I hooked up the caravan and headed off down

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<v Speaker 2>the river, it was a funny experience because I expected

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<v Speaker 2>that people would want to acknowledge my economics degree and

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<v Speaker 2>I had a master's in tax law and accounting qualifications,

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<v Speaker 2>and in fact they didn't want any of that. They

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<v Speaker 2>just wanted to know that I was a person who

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<v Speaker 2>understood what their lives were like and who was prepared

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<v Speaker 2>to listen to them.

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<v Speaker 3>What did she have to say about the state of

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<v Speaker 3>politics when she arrived in Canberra in the state of

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<v Speaker 3>the Liberal Party.

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<v Speaker 1>When she arrived, she arrived in the John Howard years.

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<v Speaker 1>She's two thousand and one, actually the same year that

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<v Speaker 1>Peter Dutton came into Parliament. But she's someone who had

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<v Speaker 1>a background on the farm with a family, and she

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<v Speaker 1>writes and it is loki.

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<v Speaker 2>Everyone stood up and they had you know, they had

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<v Speaker 2>a lot to say. And I enjoyed the spirited debate

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<v Speaker 2>between different ideas and different thoughts within our party room.

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<v Speaker 4>In terms of being a woman in that building.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, I had previous life experience as a woman in

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<v Speaker 2>careers that were dominated by men, so it wasn't altogether unfamiliar.

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<v Speaker 1>She quickly got an assistant minister's position, She moved through

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<v Speaker 1>the rank. She has been the Minister for Health, she

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<v Speaker 1>has been the Minister for the Environment. She's had her

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<v Speaker 1>ups and downs, and you know this has made her

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<v Speaker 1>the tough woman politician that she now is as leader

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<v Speaker 1>of the Liberal Party.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, if we talk a little bit about the ups

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<v Speaker 3>and downs. In twenty seventeen, she had to resign as

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<v Speaker 3>Health Minister after she used a taxpayer funded trip to

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<v Speaker 3>buy an apartment on the Gold Coast. You asked her

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<v Speaker 3>about the highs and layers of her career. Talk to

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<v Speaker 3>me about how she's framing that now.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I asked her about that in particular because it

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<v Speaker 1>came up in the press conference when she was asked

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<v Speaker 1>about the demotion of Jane Hume. She was the Finance

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<v Speaker 1>spokesperson and she's gone back to the back bench.

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<v Speaker 2>These are tough days, and having been through many days

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<v Speaker 2>like this myself in my parliamentary career, I recognize that.

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<v Speaker 1>But what I do want to say, so, yes, I

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<v Speaker 1>asked her about that, and she's pointing out that she

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<v Speaker 1>is a survivor.

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<v Speaker 2>I've become stronger and wiser for the tough times, and

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<v Speaker 2>having been sent to the back bench in the past,

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<v Speaker 2>I do know what it feels like. And I want

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<v Speaker 2>to say that one of the things I believe in

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<v Speaker 2>having been in that Parliament for twenty five years, is

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<v Speaker 2>it no matter where you sit, whatever seat you sit

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<v Speaker 2>in in the House of Representatives or the Senate, my

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<v Speaker 2>seat is better or worse than another, and you've got

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<v Speaker 2>an opportunity to contribute, to advocate.

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<v Speaker 1>The challenge from Angus Taylor with the leadership ballot was

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<v Speaker 1>very very close and may become closer still with the

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<v Speaker 1>change over the Senate at the end of June, and

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<v Speaker 1>so there's a question of whether she's got reading space.

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<v Speaker 1>Most observers would say she has breathing space at the moment,

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<v Speaker 1>but that may whittle down. And so you know, this

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<v Speaker 1>is the moment where she's been tested as the Liberal leader.

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<v Speaker 1>She's just got through this enormous rift with the National

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<v Speaker 1>Party and to survive that and stood up for the

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<v Speaker 1>Liberal Party. And now she has to face down Parliament

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<v Speaker 1>returning at the end of July.

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<v Speaker 3>After the break. The challenge ahead for Susan Lee, Karen.

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<v Speaker 3>Susan Lee has a huge task ahead of her to

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<v Speaker 3>rebuild the Liberal Party. That starts with facing up to

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<v Speaker 3>the wipeout they just suffered. How is she talking about

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<v Speaker 3>their loss?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I did ask her whether she could pinpoint anything

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<v Speaker 1>about the loss to explain it, and she said, well,

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<v Speaker 1>you know that if I did so, that would get

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<v Speaker 1>ahead of the review that is coming. But she did

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<v Speaker 1>say absolutely that there was a problem with women.

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<v Speaker 2>I always want to see more women join our party.

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<v Speaker 2>I always want more women seeing us as the party

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<v Speaker 2>that they would naturally choose to support.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's widely seeing that Peter Dutton did have an

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<v Speaker 1>issue with women voters. Susan Lee did have the portfolio

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<v Speaker 1>of women. It's now been given to Melissa Macintosh, the

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<v Speaker 1>Member for lindsay In out of Sydney. She's got that

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<v Speaker 1>alongside Communications, so you know, she's really sort of putting

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<v Speaker 1>her mark on her front bench, really highlighting this return

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<v Speaker 1>to doing something about women.

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<v Speaker 2>At every policy discussion where the big calls are made,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll be sitting at that table and I'll be seeing

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<v Speaker 2>the decisions that we make through the lens of women.

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<v Speaker 2>So many of the women that I met during the campaign,

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<v Speaker 2>that I stood on those polling booths and chatted to,

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<v Speaker 2>and that I heard what they wanted to see from

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<v Speaker 2>their political representatives.

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<v Speaker 1>And she is really pointing out that there is a

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<v Speaker 1>new portfolio in the field of urban Infrastructure and City

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<v Speaker 1>that's been given to James McGrath that's seen as addressing

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<v Speaker 1>the problem that the Liberal Party has had in urban areas.

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<v Speaker 1>There is a new recasting going on, but we don't

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<v Speaker 1>really know about the policies going forward because that's under review.

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<v Speaker 3>So Caro seasonally has well and truly proved her credentials

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<v Speaker 3>as an MP for a large rural electorate. One of

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<v Speaker 3>the things that the Liberal Party failed to do at

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<v Speaker 3>the last election was really retake any of the till

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<v Speaker 3>seats into any sort of large way. What are her

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<v Speaker 3>challenges in terms of being able to connect with urban electorates. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I asked her about whether it's a stretch for her

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<v Speaker 1>to understand voters in urban centers, and she absolutely insisted

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<v Speaker 1>that it's not.

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<v Speaker 2>Lived in Melbourne and I lived in Camera as a

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<v Speaker 2>young person, so I've lived an experienced life in the

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<v Speaker 2>cities and sometimes I think the city country divide is overrated.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, we're Australians and we have the connections

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<v Speaker 2>between ourselves, between city and country.

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<v Speaker 1>Living in Canberra and myself Canberra is not a big city.

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<v Speaker 1>But it is an enormous task and it's not just

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<v Speaker 1>for her, it's for her entire party room. These members

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<v Speaker 1>have to reach out now from there, now outer suburban

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<v Speaker 1>seats or even regional seats and understand the cities. She

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<v Speaker 1>insists that the party absolutely fought for the Teal seats. Again,

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<v Speaker 1>you just have to look at Tim Wilson returned in Goldstein.

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<v Speaker 1>Perhaps it's still endowed at this stage, Giselle Capterian in Bradfield.

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<v Speaker 1>They did fight for those and they have to work

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<v Speaker 1>harder at getting more back if they want any chance

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<v Speaker 1>of returning to government.

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<v Speaker 3>What type of coalition leader do you think Susan Lee

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<v Speaker 3>is going to be?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, she certainly made much about being more consultative. She

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<v Speaker 1>has spoken to former Liberal leaders. Do you consult with

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<v Speaker 1>former Liberal leaders Howard, Nelson, Abbott, Turnbull Morrison? Would you

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<v Speaker 1>nominate any that you might reach out to. I know

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<v Speaker 1>you've mentioned John Howard a few times in the space

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<v Speaker 1>that you're in when you arrived, I've.

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<v Speaker 2>Been in touch with all of them important former leaders

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<v Speaker 2>of our party, and always they have wisdom to add,

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<v Speaker 2>not just the previous leaders, but the future leaders.

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<v Speaker 4>Can I say Karen that I might idea?

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<v Speaker 1>But she also shifted pretty quickly to future leaders. And

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<v Speaker 1>she is someone that says that she's always on the

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<v Speaker 1>lookout for young women who might have a part to play,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it's local politics or federal politics. And she sees

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<v Speaker 1>in opposition it's not really a top down exercise. She

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<v Speaker 1>sees it as an opportunity to listen from the grass

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<v Speaker 1>roots up. And she likes to say that this is

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<v Speaker 1>a very flat in terms of structure, So we'll see

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<v Speaker 1>how that goes. Certainly, it's early days in her leadership.

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<v Speaker 1>She's certainly doing things differently at the start. And Peter

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<v Speaker 1>Dutton and.

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<v Speaker 3>Why didn't she tell you about her role as opposition

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<v Speaker 3>leader in terms of holding the government to account.

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<v Speaker 1>This is an interesting question because you know we're all

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<v Speaker 1>looking at Anthony Alberesi and how confident he is with

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<v Speaker 1>this supermajority now of ninety four Labor members in the

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<v Speaker 1>House of Representatives. Certainly, you know there's an opportunity for

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<v Speaker 1>Labor there. But now for the Liberal Party, what is

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<v Speaker 1>going to be the approach And certainly you can't discount

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<v Speaker 1>the issue of gender here and how is he going

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<v Speaker 1>to take on Susan Lee as a female leader of

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<v Speaker 1>the Liberal Party. It will be interesting in parliament to

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<v Speaker 1>see how that will play out. But I asked about

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<v Speaker 1>how she's going to square up with Alberzi, and she

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<v Speaker 1>says she's ready.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to approach the Prime minister respectfully, he's been elected,

0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:53.880
<v Speaker 2>he's got a strong majority, and I respect the wishes

0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.720
<v Speaker 2>of the Australian people that he is the prime minister.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's the first thing, and that's what every Australian

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<v Speaker 2>would expect of me.

0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:04.040
<v Speaker 1>She highlights the areas of foreign policy and national security

0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:08.319
<v Speaker 1>usually areas where the coalition and labor are in lockstep.

0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:12.040
<v Speaker 1>But it's going to be then interesting where there'll be

0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:16.640
<v Speaker 1>points of disagreement and how Susan Lee and Anthony Albanezi

0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:20.920
<v Speaker 1>will actually be able to do deals or not or

0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:25.520
<v Speaker 1>change change each others forward thinking. But she says that

0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:26.560
<v Speaker 1>she's up for the fight.

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<v Speaker 3>And finally, Karen, she's taken over the leadership at the

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<v Speaker 3>Liberal Party's darkest dep She's managed to hold the coalition

0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.440
<v Speaker 3>together during some fractured times in her early weeks in

0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:41.120
<v Speaker 3>that leadership. So what are the next big tests for seasonally?

0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:46.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, I would say she's turning attention now to Parliament

0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:50.480
<v Speaker 1>returning at the end of July. There'll be the process

0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:54.959
<v Speaker 1>for starting the review of policies and she'll be needing

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<v Speaker 1>to appoint with other elements of a party who is

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<v Speaker 1>going to lead the review of this devastating election loss.

0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:06.840
<v Speaker 1>There's question marks over whether the polster for the Liberal

0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Party that failed them so miserably will continue. Certainly that's

0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.880
<v Speaker 1>not for Susan Lee to decide, but that's in her space.

0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.760
<v Speaker 1>And there is the question mark about, you know, the

0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:21.480
<v Speaker 1>future of some of the people in the Federal division.

0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:24.920
<v Speaker 1>The leaders there, people like Andrew Hurst, whether they're going

0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:28.680
<v Speaker 1>to continue in their jobs because honestly, it's been such

0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:32.320
<v Speaker 1>a thumping loss for the Liberal Party and something has

0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:33.840
<v Speaker 1>to change.

0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:36.960
<v Speaker 3>I don't interviewer to ask Karen, thank you so much

0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:52.120
<v Speaker 3>for your time, Thank you so much. Also in the

0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.920
<v Speaker 3>news today, Prime Minister Anthony Alberizi has pushed back against

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<v Speaker 3>the US call to drastically boost defense spending, saying Asustralia

0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.520
<v Speaker 3>will determine our own defense policy and has already committed

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<v Speaker 3>an extra ten billion in defense spending over the next

0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.920
<v Speaker 3>four years. The comments come as Donald Trump announced a

0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.880
<v Speaker 3>doubling of tariffs and steel and aluminum I move Albanez

0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:17.880
<v Speaker 3>he calls an act of economic self harm. And Russia

0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.160
<v Speaker 3>has launched a new wave of air assaults on Kiev,

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<v Speaker 3>with drone and missile attacks killing at least two people,

0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.880
<v Speaker 3>including a nine year old girl. Evacuations have been ordered

0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.920
<v Speaker 3>in more than two hundred settlements in Ukraine's Sumi region

0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:35.480
<v Speaker 3>as officials warn of potential new Russian offensive. You've been

0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.440
<v Speaker 3>listening to seven am. We'll be back tomorrow.