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Speaker 1: I'll good a team. I hope you're bloody terrific. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to This is a little bit of a revisit of

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Speaker 1: one of my all time probably in my top ten

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Speaker 1: fifteen hundred plus episodes. This guy Mark Randolph, the man

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Speaker 1: who co created Netflix. I loved him. I loved this

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Speaker 1: conversation with him. It happened just over three years ago,

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Speaker 1: May two, twenty twenty one. As I record, it's May twelve,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, and I'd really enjoyed my time with him.

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Speaker 1: Having spoken to a lot of famous people over the years,

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Speaker 1: a lot of rich people, a lot of high profile people,

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Speaker 1: a lot of successful people. Some people do things like

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Speaker 1: this podcast or interviews because there's some kind of commercial

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Speaker 1: advantage or they're required to by their publisher, and with Mark,

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Speaker 1: there was none of that. He definitely did not need

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Speaker 1: to talk to me. Of all of the meat your

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Speaker 1: platforms that he has been on through his journey and

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Speaker 1: over time, way bigger, way better than me, he definitely

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Speaker 1: didn't need to talk to me. But I love the

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Speaker 1: fact that he was so engaged, so real, so interested

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Speaker 1: in me, the bloody shitkicker from Latro Valley. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I look back on this as one of my fondest

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Speaker 1: memories on my typ journey. Anyway, here we go, a

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Speaker 1: bit of a blast from the past, Mark, Randolph and

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Speaker 1: Me waxing lyrical. Enjoy your day, enjoy the chat, and

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Speaker 1: I hope you have a great week. Good eight team,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to another installment of the You Project. Hello, Tiffany

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Speaker 1: and Cook.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, harps Or.

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Speaker 1: You've outdone yourself this week, haven't you haven't. I just

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Speaker 1: when you said to me, I got the bloke who

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Speaker 1: started Netflix, I went, no, you haven't, and you sent

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Speaker 1: me his name, and I went, I actually went and

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Speaker 1: googled Mark because I thought she just got She just

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Speaker 1: got a bloke who knows the bloke who started Netflix.

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Speaker 1: She didn't get the actual dude or one of the

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Speaker 1: co founders. But you did, you did, so Hello Mark,

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Speaker 1: Thank you for thanks for joining us on the humble

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Speaker 1: little You Project in the land down under.

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Speaker 2: Gregg, it's a pleasure to be with you, and I'm

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Speaker 2: glad to if that you managed to track me down.

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Speaker 1: How many uzzy podcasts have you done? Will this be

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Speaker 1: number one or number twenty seven?

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Speaker 2: Somewhere in between the two? I actually I say, don't

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Speaker 2: take this the wrong way, but I'll say yes to

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Speaker 2: almost any Australian podcast. I'm really come on, Mark, come on, Mark,

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Speaker 2: make me say it's a little bit special. No, it's true.

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Speaker 2: But then again I said no because I was booked

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Speaker 2: for all of twenty twenty one. But Tiff talked me

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Speaker 2: into it. It was hard to actually get me to

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Speaker 2: say yes no. But I don't know. I have this

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Speaker 2: affection for Australia and it's people, so I'm always happy.

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Speaker 2: How about this disproportionate yes is for a million podcasts

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Speaker 2: rather than what comes in from the rest of the world.

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Speaker 1: How many, Well we appreciate that. How many podcast chats

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Speaker 1: would you do? Awake give a taike.

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Speaker 2: Right now? As you probably know, I'm kind of working

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Speaker 2: on promoting my own podcast, and so I'm doing a

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Speaker 2: lot more than I might normally do. I'd say I'm

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Speaker 2: probably doing three or four a week now. It's good listening.

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Speaker 2: What is it one point eight million podcasts in the world.

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Speaker 2: I've got a way to go. I'm chewing away at

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Speaker 2: it slowly.

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Speaker 1: Well, you're doing all right. Well, we we ranked from

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Speaker 1: a global pool yesterday. We ranked second with our last episode,

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Speaker 1: so we were very happy with that. So but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it's one point one point and on. I

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Speaker 1: think you and I I've probably got a way to

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Speaker 1: go before we give Rogan any trouble.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely true. Listen, one thing, I don't know where I'm

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Speaker 2: going to stack up when you actually released this, but

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Speaker 2: I'm going to be somewhere in the four hundredth plus episode.

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Speaker 2: I've just got to say that's pretty oppressive. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I just released episode eight today, so I've got a

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Speaker 2: long way to go to have your consistency. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm not very clever, but I'm really really consistent

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Speaker 1: and I'm really stubborn. But you know that's funny because

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about that stuff. I heard you

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Speaker 1: chatting with Tom Bill, you on what's it impact theory

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Speaker 1: or I actually watched you and you know, when we're

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Speaker 1: when we're creating a business or an idea, or developing

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Speaker 1: a service or a brand, or taking something from a

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Speaker 1: cognitive you know, construct a potential something and turning it

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Speaker 1: into something. I heard you talking about. It's interesting because

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Speaker 1: I thought, I don't know how much Mark and I

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Speaker 1: are going to have in common. Then I heard you

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Speaker 1: talk and I went almost everything in common because I'm

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Speaker 1: always talking about people's inability to start or lack of

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Speaker 1: willingness to start, and then sometimes when we do start,

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Speaker 1: depending on what the endeavor it is. Endeavor is whether

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Speaker 1: it's losing weight or changing a habit or behavior, or

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Speaker 1: building a brand or business. You know, invariably a lot

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Speaker 1: of people stop not long after they started. But it

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Speaker 1: seems that there's that being able to persevere and get

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable and keep getting uncomfortable and being okay with you know,

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Speaker 1: less than ideal outcomes all the time is part of

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Speaker 1: success as an entrepreneur and in business in general.

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Speaker 2: I completely agree. In fact, you know when one of

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Speaker 2: the most common questions people ask is what are these

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Speaker 2: common attributes that define successful entrepreneurs? And I go, it's

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Speaker 2: not magic. It's not like you have to have computer

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Speaker 2: science degree or have some master's in business. The best

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Speaker 2: entrepreneurs have a predisposition to action. You know, they they do,

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Speaker 2: they start, they take the idea out of their head

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Speaker 2: and figure out some way to collide it with reality.

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Speaker 2: But because you're doing something that no one else says

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Speaker 2: done before, usually it's extremely unlikely you're going to get

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Speaker 2: at rate the first try. So you have to couple

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Speaker 2: that predisposition to action, with persistence, with the willingness to

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Speaker 2: say I'm going to keep on trying. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: try different ways. It may take me one hundred tries,

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Speaker 2: but eventually I'm going to figure this out. It's absolutely

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Speaker 2: you've got to start, but you also have to keep going.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's in the doing and the falling

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Speaker 1: down and the getting up and the stuffing up and

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Speaker 1: the you know, light bulbs and the awareness. It's in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the journey that the real education happens.

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Speaker 1: And we talk about education and academia, you know in

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Speaker 1: Australia and the States, and you know it's held in

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Speaker 1: very high regard, as it should be. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like I know, for me, where I've really developed

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Speaker 1: and learned on a fundamental of this is how people work.

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Speaker 1: This is how business works, this is how human in

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Speaker 1: behave you guys is a wife from academia. It's been

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the process, you know.

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Speaker 2: It's it's it's a combination of the two. You're absolutely right.

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Speaker 2: It's foolish to embark on something without getting some degree

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Speaker 2: of insight into how it's been done well before. But

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Speaker 2: it's equally foolish to thank that substitute for doing it. Uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was going to use I was going

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Speaker 2: to use a goll for a tennis analogy, but I'll

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Speaker 2: use a footy analogy. You know, you watch the We

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Speaker 2: watch these guys play and they do that thing where

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Speaker 2: they're running on the field and every I don't know,

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Speaker 2: ten twenty meters they have to bounce the ball and

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Speaker 2: of course it's this oblong shape. And you can get

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Speaker 2: someone to show you the right way to do it.

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Speaker 2: You can watch a YouTube video and the right way

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Speaker 2: to bounce a footy. But if you think that's going

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Speaker 2: to help you bounce a footy, you're out of your mind.

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Speaker 2: You have to go out and you've got to run

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Speaker 2: laps around the field the hundreds and hundreds of times

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Speaker 2: before you can do that consist. And that is absolutely

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Speaker 2: the same thing with entrepreneurial skill. Sure read up, sure

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Speaker 2: take some classes, major in it in school, whatever floats

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Speaker 2: your boat, But fundamentally, the way you're going to really

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Speaker 2: learn how to do these things is to actually get

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Speaker 2: out and do them. And that's the trick is figure

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Speaker 2: out some way to start applying these skills when you're young,

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Speaker 2: or when you're in a low risk circumstance, or when

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Speaker 2: you're not having your mortgage and your car payments and

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Speaker 2: your kids private school tuition dependent on it.

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Speaker 1: It's so like one, congratulations on giving an IFL or

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Speaker 1: a footy as you call it, which is an analogy.

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Speaker 1: That's bloody beautiful metaphor slid in early in the show

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Speaker 1: by the American. That's great, that's very adaptable. Pay attention

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Speaker 1: t if that's called IQ I was was I going

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Speaker 1: to say, yeah, just that ability?

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Speaker 2: I really three with that one, didn't I.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, dude's just talking about that's a amazing that's amazing.

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Speaker 1: But it is that that willingness to be able to

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Speaker 1: you know, do do? I mean everyone starts as a

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Speaker 1: white belt. I always say that my listeners are sick

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Speaker 1: of it. But what if it's business or it's literally

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Speaker 1: Brazilian jiu jitsu, or it's bouncing a footy, running, or

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Speaker 1: it's it's you know, starting at the gym for the

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Speaker 1: first time. Everyone's a white belt, and you can't become

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Speaker 1: a black belt without doing the work and doing the

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Speaker 1: tests and enduring and surviving and getting hurt and getting

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable and falling down and getting a blood nose, and

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Speaker 1: and you know this is where resilience and strength and

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Speaker 1: awareness and understanding and skill develops. Like you didn't start

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Speaker 1: Netflix as it is now. That was nothing like I'm

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Speaker 1: sure the original idea or the genesis of from where

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Speaker 1: it came.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a somewhat different thing, which we should we

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Speaker 2: should explore that as well, which is a critical piece

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Speaker 2: of it. But in terms of the sense of learning,

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Speaker 2: this learning to bounce the footy is that Netflix was

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Speaker 2: my sixth startup. I mean I was in late thirties,

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Speaker 2: and in fact, I started learning these entrepreneurial skills when

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Speaker 2: I was probably six or seven years old, you know,

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Speaker 2: when I was selling seeds door to door. So it's

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Speaker 2: these all these skills are not It isn't like you go,

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Speaker 2: I want to be an entrepreneur, all right. I had

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Speaker 2: to learn how to go in and pitch a VC

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Speaker 2: for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars or a million,

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Speaker 2: which is what you see them doing on Shark Tank

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Speaker 2: or what you read about in the books or seeing

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Speaker 2: the movies. But if you try and have that be

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Speaker 2: your very first attempt, of course you're going to fall

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Speaker 2: flat in your face. You've got to start off gradually.

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Speaker 2: You've got to start off with simpler things. You've got

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Speaker 2: to scale your aspirations to your ability level at the beginning,

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Speaker 2: and then to jump into your Other point is you've

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Speaker 2: got to recognize that what I think is going to

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Speaker 2: work is wrong. That the more time I try and

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Speaker 2: toss this idea around my head, because I don't want

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Speaker 2: to start and fail, I've got to get it right.

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Speaker 2: You are never going to start going to figure it out.

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Speaker 2: You're just going to have this perfectly formed, beautiful idea

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Speaker 2: in your head, which the minute it collides with reality

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Speaker 2: is going to instantly tell you what a waste of

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Speaker 2: time it was solving these problems in a vacuum.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking, I was listing earlier this morning, which

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Speaker 1: was pretty early because it's only seven o'clock now, But

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Speaker 1: I was at the I was at the cafe, shout

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Speaker 1: out to the Hamptons, drinking my coffee as I do,

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Speaker 1: and I was watching you and Tom, and I was

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Speaker 1: thinking something that had never dawned on me, is that entrepreneurship,

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Speaker 1: developing a business, creating something from nothing, It's actually quite

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Speaker 1: a scientific process, which I'd never thought, because you come

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Speaker 1: up with an idea or a hypothesis, a construct. Then

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Speaker 1: you try something, you create a plan around how you're

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Speaker 1: going to test that. Then you do something, then you

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Speaker 1: get some data, then you evaluate the data, then you reassess,

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Speaker 1: and then you go again. I mean it's really in

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Speaker 1: some ways it's very analytical, scientific, methodical process.

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Speaker 2: Well so says the PhD candidate over here, but.

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Speaker 1: There's a bit of cree itvity as well, thank you.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly the point I was going to make is

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Speaker 2: that it's this combination, which is why I love it

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Speaker 2: so much. It's a combination of art and science because

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Speaker 2: you have this tremendous ability to know, down to the

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Speaker 2: fourteenth decimal point whether the red envelope is better than

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Speaker 2: the blue envelope. But it does not tell you for

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Speaker 2: a second that you should be testing envelope color, and

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Speaker 2: if you should be testing envelope color, it doesn't tell

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Speaker 2: you why you should test red versus blue, versus green

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Speaker 2: versus pink. So it requires this combination of things. But fundamentally,

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Speaker 2: you're right, there is a playbook, and the playbook is

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Speaker 2: this process of test repeat learn test, test learn, repeat,

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Speaker 2: test learn repeat. You know, and you alluded to that

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Speaker 2: very beginning, and this was you know, when we were

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Speaker 2: start before we started Netflix. It certainly wasn't even Netflix.

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Speaker 2: When my business partner, Read Hastings and I were trying

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Speaker 2: to figure out what was the next business we were

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Speaker 2: going to start, we had a million different crazy ideas

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Speaker 2: and anything we came up with was going to have

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Speaker 2: to pass the test of was there an element of

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Speaker 2: reality to it? And the only way to figure that

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Speaker 2: out was to collide it with reality. And so, for example,

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Speaker 2: this is back in nineteen ninety seven, and this crazy

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Speaker 2: idea that we had was not streaming video. The crazy

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Speaker 2: idea was can we do video rental by mail? Can

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Speaker 2: we do what Blockbuster? Which I believe they had in

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Speaker 2: Australia as well, So we do that idea. It was

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Speaker 2: a terrible idea, and it was largely a terrible idea.

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Speaker 2: One of the six hundred reasons it was a terrible

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Speaker 2: idea was that in nineteen ninety seven video came on

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Speaker 2: the VHS cassettes. I mean, tiff for those of you

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Speaker 2: of you your generation, you know, it's this big, square,

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Speaker 2: plastic thing that a movie came on. I know that's

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Speaker 2: hard to envision, but certainly it was not something you

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Speaker 2: were going to be able to mail to somebody's house,

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Speaker 2: which was part of the idea. But here's the entrepreneurial

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Speaker 2: thing is that one day Reid brought up that he'd

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Speaker 2: heard about this technology called the DVD, which was this thin,

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Speaker 2: little flat piece of plastic that a movie could come on.

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Speaker 2: And so the idea came up, this might actually now

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Speaker 2: allow us to do video rental by mail, because mail

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Speaker 2: and give me a plastic we could use the post office.

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Speaker 2: So rather than saying, oh, what a great idea, and

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Speaker 2: then begin imagining this future, we said, we've got to

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Speaker 2: validate this, so quick test. Turn the car around. We're

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Speaker 2: commuting to work when this idea popped into our heads

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Speaker 2: and turn the car around, and immediately said, let's validate

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Speaker 2: whether at least the fundamental premise and can I mail

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Speaker 2: a disc to somebody and have it arrive at their

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Speaker 2: house unbroken? And went to try and buy a DVD

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Speaker 2: and couldn't find that, and decides to substitute a CD,

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Speaker 2: a music CD, and mail the CD to Read's house

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Speaker 2: and found out in less than twenty four hours that yes, indeed,

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Speaker 2: you can mail a CD to someone and it gets

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Speaker 2: to their house quickly and it gets to their house unbroken,

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Speaker 2: and most importantly for our purposes, it got there for

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Speaker 2: the price of a postage stamp. And it's that process,

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Speaker 2: one time after another after another after another that ultimately

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Speaker 2: is leads you on this twisting, turning route that you

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Speaker 2: never anticipated, hopefully to the goal of any entrepreneur, which

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Speaker 2: is the repeatable, scalable business model.

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Speaker 1: And when did you get kind of close to what

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Speaker 1: Netflix is today? When were you starting to approach the

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Speaker 1: model that looks block Now.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a really interesting question because in some ways

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Speaker 2: it requires you to find what is Netflix today? And yeah, cool,

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Speaker 2: I was a cryptic answer, wasn't it. No? But it's

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Speaker 2: we mentioned before about what a terrible idea this video

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Speaker 2: rental my mail was, and it was, and everybody told me,

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Speaker 2: was very helpfully telling me what a terrible idea it was.

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Speaker 2: You know, the book is called That'll Never Work, and

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Speaker 2: the podcast is called That'll Never Work. It's because that's

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Speaker 2: was drilled into me over and over again, that this

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Speaker 2: stupid idea will never work.

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Speaker 1: Such a good name for a podcast, by the way, Oh,

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Speaker 1: thank you very well promote that anyway, But that is

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Speaker 1: a great name.

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Speaker 2: But listen. It came from you know, listen, you hear

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Speaker 2: it enough, you go, okay, I'm going to use that one.

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Speaker 2: But people said it was a bad idea for two reasons,

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Speaker 2: and one was the Blockbuster. Why on earth's anybody gonna

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Speaker 2: rent by mail when you can throw a rock and

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Speaker 2: hit a Blockbuster?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The other one was that it's digital medium. Eventually people

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Speaker 2: are going to be downloading or streaming. We weren't sure which,

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Speaker 2: so they were both right. We knew that Blockbuster would

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Speaker 2: be a big impediment. We also knew it was inevitable

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Speaker 2: that people would be downloading or streaming. So this is

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Speaker 2: the important part, which is that we knew we had

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Speaker 2: to build a company which wasn't all about DBDs because

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Speaker 2: eventually that would go away. But we also could not

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Speaker 2: build a business all about streaming because it was impossible.

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Speaker 2: There was no content, The infrastructure wasn't there, digital rights

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Speaker 2: managements weren't robust enough, and so if we had come

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Speaker 2: out with a streaming company, then we would have gone

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Speaker 2: out of business. So we had to say, how do

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Speaker 2: you position this? That it works now, but that every

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Speaker 2: piece of equity we build in our customer relationship, everything

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Speaker 2: we learn about what they like and don't like will

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Speaker 2: be applicable when the world changes. And so way back then,

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Speaker 2: we decided this was not going to be DVD company.

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Speaker 2: It was not a streaming company. It was a company

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Speaker 2: that was going to help you discover great stories. And

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Speaker 2: this leads me full circle to your question, and how

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Speaker 2: has a business model changed? It's never changed. On day one,

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Speaker 2: it was how do we help you discover great stories.

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Speaker 2: At the beginning, of course you discover great stories because

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Speaker 2: we had every DBD available. And then eventually we help

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Speaker 2: you discover great stories by creating deep content and eventually

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Speaker 2: helping you find more clever ways to discover it and

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Speaker 2: then taste algorithms to predict it. And then as it

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Speaker 2: got more convenient to find different ways to deliver it

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Speaker 2: to you, we did that. But at the core, at

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Speaker 2: the heart of Netflix, what drove every decision about what

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Speaker 2: should we prioritize was help you discover great stories. And

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Speaker 2: so that's never gone away, and people look at what's

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Speaker 2: happening now. Of course, every content company in the world

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Speaker 2: recognizing that this streaming business is kind of the way

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Speaker 2: to consume content, and Netflix has this huge lead. And

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Speaker 2: it's not just because We've been streaming since two thousand

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Speaker 2: and seven, so have you know what thirteen fourteen years

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Speaker 2: had started. But because we've been establishing this direct relationship

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Speaker 2: with the customer founded on discovering great stories since nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety eight. And that's a really, really hard thing for

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Speaker 2: companies which have always delivered their content by sending a

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Speaker 2: real to someone who just plays it in a darkened

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Speaker 2: box for people they don't know.

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Speaker 1: And the beauty of Netflix is, you know, there are

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Speaker 1: billions of people who have a pre existing relationship with

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Speaker 1: Netflix and you know, know what they're getting, and you

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Speaker 1: know that makes a massive difference. Do you think that?

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Speaker 2: Do you think that?

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Speaker 1: I mean sometimes I think some people perceive entrepreneurship is

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Speaker 1: that it needs to be big and grand. It needs

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Speaker 1: to be Netflix, It needs to be nicke, it needs

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Speaker 1: to be whatever. But you know, you can have a

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Speaker 1: lawn mowing round and be entrepreneurial, right.

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Speaker 2: Oh absolutely. You know, I think one of the great

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Speaker 2: disservices that we've all done in talking about entrepreneurship is

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Speaker 2: glorifying it in some ways for the wrong reasons. That

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Speaker 2: people think the reason to do this is to become

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Speaker 2: rich and famous and wealthier, it's like acting. The odds

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Speaker 2: of that happening are infinitesimal. But if you're doing it

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Speaker 2: for the excitement, if you're doing it for the fact

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Speaker 2: that you get to do things different every day, you

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Speaker 2: get to solve really interesting problems with really smart people. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you can do that at any scale. You could do

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Speaker 2: that with how do I make my long wine business

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Speaker 2: more successful? How do I find new customers? How do

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Speaker 2: I do this in a way that those other guys

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Speaker 2: aren't doing it? Yeah, that's what That's what motivates me.

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Speaker 2: That's what I think is the secret source of entrepreneurship,

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Speaker 2: not the scale. And by aspiring to only think that

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Speaker 2: scale counts, you'll God, that's it's like saying you don't

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Speaker 2: climb it. There's a dumb analogy. You don't climb Everest.

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Speaker 2: By just climbing, you start. You're starting in the foothills

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Speaker 2: and it takes months. And listen, starting a big company,

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Speaker 2: you can't aspire to be Nike or Netflix. And maybe

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Speaker 2: if you are Apple or AT and T and you've

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Speaker 2: got maybe a couple of billion dollars sitting around, then

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Speaker 2: you have some incredibly talented people, one hundreds of thousands

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Speaker 2: of them but no, you got to pick a niche.

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Speaker 2: You got to pick something small. You got to pick

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Speaker 2: something that you can handle. You got to pick something

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Speaker 2: that's within your realm. But if you're clever, you pick

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Speaker 2: one that if I get this right, the things I

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Speaker 2: focused on will allow me to take the next step.

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Speaker 2: And if I get that right, in other words, if

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Speaker 2: I can mow my neighborhood's lawns correctly in this good way,

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Speaker 2: there's two more neighborhoods next door. Wouldn't that be incredible?

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Speaker 2: And now all of a sudden, you're doing three neighborhoods.

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Speaker 2: You go, gosh, I wonder if I could do this

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Speaker 2: whole half the city, if I did trucks and this,

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Speaker 2: And then you go, maybe I could do a second city,

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Speaker 2: and you know, and then eventually you can become the

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Speaker 2: nationwide lawn care service. But if you start out when

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Speaker 2: you're mowing two people's lawns, you'll be with You're going, oh,

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Speaker 2: I need to invest in a fleet of trucks, and

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Speaker 2: how do I move the fuel from here to there?

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Speaker 2: And you know what a waste of time to solve

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Speaker 2: those problems? Just more one person's line better than the

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Speaker 2: guy who was doing it before and focus on that

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Speaker 2: for a while.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. I set up my first business,

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Speaker 1: which was a screenprinting business, obviously one person business, when

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Speaker 1: I was nineteen, and I set up my first my

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Speaker 1: first gym, in when I was twenty six, which clearly

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Speaker 1: was four years ago. What are you laughing about, hey,

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Speaker 1: steady steady on Netflix? Boy, don't laugh too hard. So

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Speaker 1: but my main driver and I didn't even think, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm becoming entrepreneurial or I'm you know, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: develop this brand or business or service that's going to dominate.

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Speaker 1: And we ended up and we didn't, certainly not Netflix.

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Speaker 1: But I had four gyms and I employed five hundred

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Speaker 1: trainers over twenty five years, and we went quite well,

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Speaker 1: and we had a really good brand in the fitness industry.

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Speaker 1: But my main driver mark was I don't want a boss.

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Speaker 1: I just didn't want to work for somebody. That was

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Speaker 1: my motivation was pursue it. To your earlier comment, your

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Speaker 1: honor was I just want to work when I want

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Speaker 1: to work and do what I want to do. I'm

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Speaker 1: not lazy, I'm actually quite driven, but I don't want

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Speaker 1: to spend half my day doing things that I hate

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Speaker 1: or things that people want me to do that I

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Speaker 1: actually think are inefficient. And so from when I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, really twenty early twenties, I spent my life

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Speaker 1: trying to strategize around how I could not have a

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Speaker 1: job for most of my life and the last time

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Speaker 1: I had a job was thirty one years ago. So

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Speaker 1: and of course I wanted to make a few bucks

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Speaker 1: and have a good lifestyle and all of that, but

432
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,399
Speaker 1: for me, it was very much about just being able

433
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: to develop the things I wanted the way that I wanted.

434
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I call that the need to do want to

435
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 2: do ratio, and you're never in my opinion, it's really

436
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,479
Speaker 2: really impossible to build a life where you can only

437
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 2: do what you want unless what you want to do

438
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,959
Speaker 2: is live in a van behind the seven to eleven.

439
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 1: But shout out to our listeners who.

440
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 2: But for most people, everything is some combination of what

441
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 2: I need to do and what I want to do.

442
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 2: And if you can construct the life for most of

443
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 2: it is what I want to do, then that you're

444
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 2: doing pretty well. But you know, it is for me

445
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 2: that my motivations were not necessarily that. For me, it

446
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 2: was more this compulsive thing that I couldn't help myself.

447
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 2: I just was always seeing the flaws in the world

448
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 2: that I would intuitively go, there's got to be a

449
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 2: better way to do that, and then even worse, felt

450
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 2: I had to rush in and do them. And luckily

451
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 2: for me, I've always found that whole process fascinating. Of

452
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 2: trying to solve these problems that no one's really been

453
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 2: able to solve before. That's the fun part for me,

454
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 2: and I'm incredibly fortunate that that actually does pay a

455
00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 2: living wage. Otherwise, you know that aforementioned Van seven eleven

456
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 2: that could be you. It would have been a big

457
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 2: part of my future and past.

458
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: Do you ever think about how you think? Do you

459
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: have an awareness of the way that you perceive life

460
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 1: in the world and the way that internal you, your

461
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 1: internal that internal world of Mark intersects and interacts with

462
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: your external world. Obviously, I'm fascinated with the way that

463
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,959
Speaker 1: people process life and situations. And you know, there's an

464
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: area of research called metacognition, which is essentially thinking about thinking.

465
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: Do you ever think about how you think?

466
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 2: I do now, but only because I was forced to

467
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 2: think about it. In other words, what happens is the

468
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 2: lesson is, for example, when you want to teach somebody something,

469
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 2: you sometimes have to go, how do I I know

470
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 2: I'm good at this, but how do I communicate what

471
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 2: it is I'm actually good at? And it requires you

472
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 2: to go back and really think, how do I break

473
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,199
Speaker 2: this down? What am I doing? And how am I

474
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 2: a is what I'm doing different than what other people

475
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 2: are doing. We're maybe not successful at this, and so

476
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 2: I have to And so now, of course I do

477
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 2: recognize when I'm doing these things, but it took me

478
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 2: a long time to begin going what does disting? What

479
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 2: are the common denominators that allow people to have crazy

480
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 2: ideas eventually turn those into reality? What are those steps

481
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: when I you know, I wrote the book I wrote

482
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 2: That Will Never Work about those early years of Netflix.

483
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 2: I wrote it sixteen years after I left Netflix, and

484
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 2: it took me that long because you sometimes need that

485
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 2: distance to really recognize how much of this was what

486
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 2: I did, how much of this was just lucky, how

487
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 2: much of it was my contribution, and how much of

488
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 2: what did I do wrong? What could I And that's

489
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 2: a combination of being able to look back honestly but

490
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 2: also being able to think about it more clearly. So

491
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 2: there's some things I do think about as I'm doing

492
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 2: them to discipline myself, but quite frankly, less on the

493
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,360
Speaker 2: entrepreneurial side and more on the balance side, more on

494
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,959
Speaker 2: how do I keep my life in balance that I

495
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,360
Speaker 2: think about all the time, and I think about how

496
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 2: I think about it, and the actual entrepreneurial stuff is

497
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 2: less analytically driven.

498
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: So two things out of that for me, thank you

499
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: that that was great. I love that. See the thing

500
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: with you, listen to me telling you about you, Mark, Listen,

501
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you. I hope you're paying attention, but

502
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 1: you do. You probably do a lot of things organically, naturally, intuitively,

503
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 1: instinctively because you have this is you, this is your

504
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: nature or this is you know, you do a lot

505
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 1: of stuff and have done a lot of stuff that way.

506
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: And it's not that there's no strategy or thinking or planning.

507
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 1: But as you said, then you arrive down the track

508
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: and one day you're fifty or whatever, you're sixty, and

509
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: you're thinking about, oh, how do I actually how do

510
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: I break that down so I can teach someone? So

511
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: you know, like one of the things that I do

512
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 1: is I teach I train speakers to speak because I

513
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,239
Speaker 1: corporate speaking. I do a lot of it, and then

514
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: when I first started teaching them how to speak, I go,

515
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: I don't even know how I do it because there's

516
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: no strategy. Like I invariably get up with no notes

517
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: and talk for an hour or two hours and I'm

518
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: in flow and I love it and it's fun and

519
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: there's no nerves. It's just joy and I create an experience.

520
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: But I've never I never planned that, So then when

521
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: I had to teach someone how to replicate a version

522
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: of that, it took me forever to figure out what

523
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: I actually do. And maybe that's the chill is teaching

524
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: others to, I guess, strategically do what you naturally do.

525
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't that interesting? I think that the parallels are

526
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 2: exactly the same as that I The entrepreneurial thing is

527
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: that the just starting, the persistence, the continuing to try

528
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 2: things and not falling in love with my ideas, the focus,

529
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 2: the triage, those are all things that kind of came

530
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 2: just naturally to me based on who I was. A

531
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 2: lot of the cultural things that are going into every

532
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 2: company I've started that have kind of driven the Netflix

533
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: culture came from not me designing them but from just

534
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 2: being who I am. And it is only after the

535
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: fact when you look back, when you're trying to say,

536
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: how do you begin to be helpful to pay it forward?

537
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 2: How do you help give real advice which is not

538
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 2: just bs to other entrepreneurs. Do you say, I've got

539
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 2: to go figure this, really think through what am I doing?

540
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 2: How am I approaching this? And then the hard part

541
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 2: is then how do I coax someone into being able

542
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 2: to do that? And sometimes that's tricky. The whole the

543
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 2: thing we've talked about multiple times today, which is that

544
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 2: just starting that taking that risk. You can say it

545
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: all you want, you know, you can put it up

546
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 2: on the Instagram, quote panels all you want, but fundamentally,

547
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 2: it's against people's human nature to want to do something

548
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,719
Speaker 2: which has the risk of them looking stupid and think

549
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 2: that's a hard thing.

550
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: And we're enamored, especially in Australia and I'm pretty sure

551
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: it's in the States. I've been there for a few times.

552
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: We're enamored with the idea of personal growth and personal development,

553
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: and we love quotes, and we love mantras, and we

554
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: love posting things on the bathroom mirror, and we love

555
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: sunsets and puppies with nice quotes, but you know, like

556
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: the reality is that life and business and relationships and

557
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: developing things is just sometimes it sucks, and it's messy,

558
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: and it's uncomfortable, it's unfamiliar, it's uncertain, it's hard, it's

559
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: you know, and sometimes it's glorious and awesome. But you know,

560
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: this is getting people to step out of their holding

561
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,959
Speaker 1: patent or their groundhog diet and into the unknown, the unfamiliar,

562
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: the uncertain, and the uncomfortable. That's the challenge. It's not

563
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: that they don't have the ability. I don't think.

564
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a you're absolutely right. It's a critical piece

565
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 2: of it. And in this more latter part of my

566
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 2: life where I've kind of realized my purpose is more

567
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 2: trying to pay this forward, which is trying to unlock

568
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 2: other people to take everyone who has these great ideas

569
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: or believes they're great ideas and wants to make them real.

570
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 2: Is I've realized that you can't just deliver the platitudes.

571
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: You have to then teach by example. I suppose, yeah,

572
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 2: I mean I'll give you us a quick example, you know,

573
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: for and again, I know we can talk about this

574
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: a little bit later in the pod. But you know

575
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 2: I'm on the podcast I'm doing, I'm that will never

576
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 2: work podcast. I'm not interviewing celebrity entrepreneurs. I'm not interviewing

577
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 2: people do that way better than I do. What my

578
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 2: podcast is is sessions of me mentoring unknowns, early stage

579
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 2: entrepreneurs who are stuck, who are trying to take their idea,

580
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 2: get it out of their head, who are trying to

581
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: turn their side also into a real business, or trying

582
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 2: to hit the real business next level. But what I'm

583
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 2: doing really is saying I could put on Instagram the

584
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 2: trick is, you know, to quickly, cheaply and easily clyde

585
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 2: your idea with reality. Well, good for me. But what

586
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 2: I'll do in the podcast is then walk someone through

587
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 2: how how in my particular circumstance do I think that through?

588
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 2: How do I isolate the one component which is really

589
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 2: the puzzle and figure out a clever way to try that,

590
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 2: And hopefully by having people listen to me doing that,

591
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 2: to walk someone through to help them discover how to

592
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 2: make that step, and not just with turning ead into reality,

593
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 2: but for all the other little principles of entrepreneurship it's

594
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 2: coaching people and any people listen in, I hope is

595
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 2: the valuable piece of what I'm doing.

596
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: That is, as we would say in Australia, Mate, that's

597
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: a bloody brilliant idea, right, So that's I mean, I

598
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: love that because that is unique, and that is you

599
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: knowing that you have the ability to sit you don't

600
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: know what's coming, you don't know what they're going to say,

601
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: there's no prep, you can't get ready. And I love

602
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: the fact that you know in real time you're sitting

603
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: there and coaching somebody and whoever you're coaching. You know.

604
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: There's that other podcast that I like by Guy Raz

605
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: called How I Built This? Have you been on there?

606
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 2: I haven't because I haven't. I've been interviewed by Guy before.

607
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 2: He's amazing. Yeah, you're right, it's a different thing.

608
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: I love the way that he deconstructs people's lives and

609
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: journeys and businesses. And for me, I could be listening

610
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: to the most random story that of somebody built some

611
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: online lady selling shoes to the world, and I'm like,

612
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: I see myself in that online shoe business. I don't

613
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: know why, but it's not about the shoes. Or the

614
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: online or the lady or necessarily, but just the challenges

615
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: and the stories and the experiences and the lessons and

616
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: I think you know you doing that is an amazing Well,

617
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 1: let's plug it now. Anyway, we'll do it anyway. In

618
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: our show notes. But the podcast is called that will

619
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: Never Work? How many episodes?

620
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 2: You know?

621
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: What's that?

622
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 2: Tea? Is?

623
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: That will never work?

624
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 2: Not that will never work? That subscribed?

625
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: That will never work? How many shows deep are you?

626
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 2: We just released episode eight today, so and I'm only

627
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 2: doing it. They only committed every two weeks for an

628
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 2: hour to try and as I learn this new medium.

629
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,879
Speaker 1: Hey, listen to me, champlift your game. Do one a week?

630
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 1: Come on, get serious like you're either in or out?

631
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: Come on.

632
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're absolutely right, And so I think we are.

633
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 2: Once we get into the next next season, which is soon,

634
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: we'll accelerate a little bit. You know, I have an excuse,

635
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 2: and this is kind of lame, do you mind? Not really,

636
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 2: but I'm going to tell you what it is. Anyway.

637
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 2: It's that my whole principle is that I don't wait

638
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 2: until I understand something before I do it. I go,

639
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 2: I'll learn what I can, but then the way I'm

640
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 2: going to learn is just by making my mistakes in public.

641
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 2: And so I'm making my mistakes in public, which is

642
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 2: that I'm basically learning not just how to how to

643
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 2: do this, not just technically, but what's the right way

644
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 2: to speak to people? These things actually come through and

645
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 2: mean something to somebody, Then how do you promote them,

646
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 2: how do you publish them? How do you engage with

647
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: all these little pieces? And having a slower velocity allows

648
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 2: me to learn from my mistakes at a reasonable pace

649
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 2: without me having to be seven by twenty four on it.

650
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 2: There is my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

651
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, you rationalize it however you want, Champs, I'm not

652
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: boning it, but you know, a story and well outarticulated,

653
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: but nah, thank you.

654
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 2: Hey.

655
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: It seems to me that for a lot of people,

656
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: as we've spoken about a bit already, that the getting

657
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: started part is the challenge, and it would think so

658
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: I think that probably that's around fear a lot. So

659
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: for people that are listening to this mark who are thinking,

660
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: I've literally had an idea for one, two, five, ten years,

661
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: or an intention, or I've had the same conversation about

662
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 1: the same thing and I know there's no magic formula,

663
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: but just speak to us a bit about getting started

664
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: if you're scared, and a way to you know, not

665
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: overcome that. But I don't think we ever overcome fear,

666
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 1: but we navigate fear. What are your thoughts around that?

667
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: It is the single biggest impediment between people being successful

668
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 2: entrepreneurs is not that they run out of money, or

669
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 2: not that they make a technical mistique. It's because they

670
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 2: never start. And I've heard every single possible excuse for

671
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 2: why I can't start. I can't raise money, can't find

672
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: a co founder, need my computer science degree, you have

673
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 2: to graduate whatever, I've heard them all, can't quit my

674
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 2: day job. And what makes a great entrepreneur is not

675
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 2: how good their ideas are. It really isn't. It's how

676
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 2: clever they can be about figuring out quick and cheap

677
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 2: and easy ways to try them. And so, in the interest,

678
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 2: let me give you an example of what I mean

679
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 2: by how to break that model, because the way to

680
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 2: do it is to figure out I do not need

681
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 2: to do all the things I think. I don't need

682
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 2: to raise money, I don't need to build an app,

683
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 2: I don't need to hire people. I don't need to

684
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 2: quit my job. All right, here's an example. This is

685
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 2: a young woman, she was still in university university students,

686
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 2: and she goes, Mark, have this great idea. It's going

687
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 2: to be peer to peer clothing rental. Basically, I have

688
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 2: a closet full of clothes I never wear. I know

689
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 2: all my friends do. It'd be great to build a

690
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 2: bar every one's clothes and we could do. I go, oh,

691
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 2: great idea, maybe, and she goes, what's the problem And

692
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 2: she goes, well, I need to raise money because I

693
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 2: need to build an app and I need to hire

694
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 2: someone to help me code this, and blah blah blah.

695
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 2: And I go whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's stop right there.

696
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 2: I go, do you have a piece of paper? And

697
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 2: she goes, yes, of course, piece of paper. Guys, you

698
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 2: do have a sharpie, you know, the magic marker. She

699
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 2: goes yeah, And I go, okay, write in the paper.

700
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 2: Want to borrow my clothes? Please knock and I want

701
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 2: you to tape that to your dorm room door right now.

702
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 2: And we're going to find out in the next twenty

703
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 2: four hours. A fundamental piece of your idea, which is

704
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 2: does anybody care and if nobody knocks, Well, you've learned

705
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 2: something really valuable right there, and you learned it with

706
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 2: a piece of paper and a magic marker, and you

707
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 2: learned it right now. But let's say someone knocks. That's fantastic.

708
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 2: Then you're going to learn about problems with Well, they're

709
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,839
Speaker 2: in a different size, or they didn't like anything. Well,

710
00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 2: then you've learned that. But what if they do and

711
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 2: they take things. Now you're going to learn how you

712
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,720
Speaker 2: feel when your favorite blouse comes back stained or torn.

713
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 2: Or you're gonna learn about, oh, I never factor in

714
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 2: the cost that everything has got to go to the

715
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 2: dry cleaner or or or you're going to begin that

716
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 2: process of discovery about whether your idea is a good

717
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 2: one or not. You're going to do that by having

718
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 2: collided it with the reality. Now, this is not repeatable,

719
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,919
Speaker 2: this is not scalable. You can't do everything using three

720
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 2: by five cards out of your dorm room. But you

721
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 2: sure as hell can do that for the next few months,

722
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 2: and then you're gonna know. And then rather than when

723
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 2: you're trying to convince someone to join you or a

724
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 2: loan you money, it's not going to be imagine if

725
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: you will, it's gonna be Oh my gosh, I'm going

726
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 2: out of my mind. I'm processing six hundred and thirty

727
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 2: rentals every single weekend, and I'm doing it all with

728
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 2: three by five cards, And I need to figure out

729
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 2: a way to automate this, and I need to figure

730
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 2: out a way that's powerful, that's comp And you've learned

731
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 2: that your idea is a good one or not. And

732
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 2: most likely, though those things I just described, you're going

733
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 2: to bump into something you didn't expect, you didn't discover,

734
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 2: and then comes the persistence part. You'll go, wow, no

735
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 2: one knocked. Well, what are you going to do about it? Wow?

736
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 2: The stuff's coming back stained and you're torn? What am

737
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 2: I going to do about it? How am I going

738
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 2: to modify this that it might actually work? So when

739
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 2: someone is stuck, I'm going if you're stuck because you

740
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 2: can't envision, how am I going to build an app?

741
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 2: And how am I going to leave my job to

742
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 2: do this? When I have car payments or you're not,

743
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 2: You're going to do things quickly and cheaply and easily

744
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: on the side in your spare time, in a way

745
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 2: that if it doesn't work figuratively, what you've lost is

746
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 2: a piece of paper and some tape because you've put

747
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 2: it in your dorm room and it didn't work, or

748
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 2: whatever it takes to try this. And I can give

749
00:40:55,040 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 2: you dozens of examples of every time someone says I

750
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 2: had this idea, there's no way for me to validate

751
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 2: this idea other than actually doing it, and they go,

752
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 2: you're wrong. There's always a way to validate your idea

753
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 2: without actually doing it.

754
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: I love that. I started in the fitness industry over

755
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: here in eighty two and in eighty six, so thirty

756
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: five years ago, I started training my first client one

757
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 1: on one, as in personal training, and there were no trainers,

758
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 1: and I remember thinking, oh, this is handy because this

759
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: guy's is This guy's paying me one hundred bucks a

760
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: week for three workouts, so thirty three dollars ish hour,

761
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 1: which for me was like a million dollars, and I

762
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: think my alley rate on the gym floor was ten

763
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: or eleven dollars. And originally I thought, oh, well, this

764
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: is great. This is an extra hundred dollars a week

765
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: which essentially improves my wage by twenty percent or something.

766
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 1: And then I got another guy, and I had two

767
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: guys paying hard I'm like, wow, this could this could

768
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: be a thing and one of my challenge and it

769
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: just kind of expanded, like it was almost an accidental business.

770
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,760
Speaker 1: I just happened to be not bad at training people

771
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: and not bad at being cheeky and creating, developing rapport

772
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,760
Speaker 1: and communicating and you know, the two or three skills

773
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 1: that I had collided and turned into this thing. But

774
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: I remember initially mark feeling almost guilty that I was

775
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: making for me amazing money back then, and I almost no,

776
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: I didn't almost. I probably still a bit of this

777
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: to the day. I felt unworthy and I felt somewhat

778
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 1: fraudulent because I thought, well, no, my default setting was

779
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: I'm worth ten or eleven or twelve dollars an hour.

780
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: That was my default cognitive default setting for whatever reason.

781
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: And then when I started to make more money, and

782
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:56,760
Speaker 1: then I got busier, and then the next twelve months

783
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 1: it went somewhat crazy where I had a waiting list

784
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: because I was actually managing a gym at the same time.

785
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 1: I was twenty three, so I had a fifty hour week,

786
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: full time management role managing a gym. Plus I had

787
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,280
Speaker 1: this side hustle which was becoming bigger than the main job,

788
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: and it's you know, for my biggest problem was and

789
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: probably still is. Might not seem like it, but my

790
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: own bullshit, you know, my own confidence, like constantly fighting that.

791
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: And I feel like a lot of people have this

792
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 1: mark where they they know that they've got potential and ability,

793
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: but that feeling of being a fraud or not good

794
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: enough that's an ever present challenge. Has that ever existed

795
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:43,879
Speaker 1: for you?

796
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 2: Oh? Of course, especially when you're doing things without really

797
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 2: thinking about them. You go, why is someone asking me

798
00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 2: this question? Why are they looking to me? So absolutely?

799
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 2: But you know, i'd argue, and I'll use your specific example.

800
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 2: You didn't sit there at your fifty hour a week

801
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 2: management job dreaming and going, gosh, wouldn't it be cool

802
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 2: if I had this individual training business boy? It could

803
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 2: make me five times the money, and I need my

804
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 2: own gym and I'll have to get my own equipment.

805
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 2: And then yeah, then you're going, I can't do that.

806
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 2: That's not how you did it. You just had one

807
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 2: guy on the side and whoa, he's going to pay

808
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 2: me this. That gave you the confidence to go, now

809
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 2: I can do three guys, and then five, and then

810
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 2: pretty soon you're going, Wow, I think there's enough business

811
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 2: here that I can quit my day job and do

812
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 2: this full time. And that is it does not require

813
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:55,879
Speaker 2: this I'm a superman leap it requires I. Wow, it's

814
00:44:55,880 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 2: actually working. But I agree. I still, you know, I

815
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 2: still have those feelings of you know, even though I'll

816
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 2: come on to a show like this and I'll go

817
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 2: are talking to me, I'm like, I'm like, nobody, come on,

818
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 2: I mean, no, I reckon. It's a cognitive dissonance thing,

819
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 2: because of course, you know, I can tell myself my

820
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 2: own success, and I can tell myself you've won the

821
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 2: lottery multiple times, and that's more than just odds, and

822
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 2: so I go, I got it. I guess I know something.

823
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 2: Still I don't see myself that way. Just it's a

824
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 2: very odd, odd feeling.

825
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,439
Speaker 1: I think those things that I've spoken about this a lot,

826
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: the ability that we have to consciously or you know,

827
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: intellectually understand something. Oh well, I must be quite good

828
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: at what I do. I've built Netflix and a bunch

829
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 1: of other things, and I've succeeded repeatedly, and I've fallen

830
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:00,439
Speaker 1: down and gotten back up. But you know, your track

831
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 1: record is amazing. But that knowledge and that intellect can

832
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 1: coexist with the feeling of I'm not that special, you know,

833
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 1: and that's for me.

834
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 2: I have a present, and you know it is for

835
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 2: me too. And in fact, it's interesting that you talk

836
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 2: about the Guy Raj Show before how I built this,

837
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 2: because one of the things that's wonderful about that is

838
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 2: him showing that a lot of these people who built very,

839
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 2: very reputable, huge companies had all kinds of failures and

840
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 2: all kinds of moments where this almost never worked. And

841
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 2: in many ways, the reason that I wanted to write

842
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 2: that that one ever worked book was to show people

843
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 2: that I am not a superman, that I made a

844
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,320
Speaker 2: lot of mistakes, there was a whole bunch of times

845
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 2: when this almost didn't work, that there was other ingredients

846
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 2: that went into making it successful, that it's not all.

847
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 2: It's not one of those books where every chapter is

848
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 2: chapter one, look how amazing I am, and number two

849
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 2: look with the spectacular decision I did, And number three

850
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 2: is look how clever I was? Not the case at all.

851
00:46:58,160 --> 00:46:59,839
Speaker 2: You know, you got a warts.

852
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: And all, aheah, you must do you get You probably

853
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 1: don't spend that do you spend any time looking at

854
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: social media or do you avoid that.

855
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 2: I avoid it, but it's weird because I participate in it,

856
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 2: and so it's like they never get high in your

857
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,359
Speaker 2: own supply, I guess is the answer. So I need

858
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 2: to constantly be really careful, and man, I can feel

859
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 2: it happening. You know, it's engineered to be addictive, and

860
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 2: it's whether you're a content creator or a content consumer

861
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 2: is no different. You watch the follower counts go up,

862
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 2: and you just want to keep hitting refreshed and you're

863
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 2: hitting a little lever and getting a little mouse pellet

864
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 2: and it's a it's a hard one.

865
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: I'm already thinking about how many people are going to

866
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,280
Speaker 1: listen to this conversation because we've got you. I'm excited

867
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: about I'm all about the numbers prob on the title life.

868
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:04,359
Speaker 2: It's okay, So my my weakness is TikTok I really? Yeah?

869
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 1: But are you twelve years old? What's going on?

870
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't know what it is. It's just something

871
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 2: about the fact I'll sit there and just kind of

872
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:15,439
Speaker 2: hit the lever over and over again. But at least

873
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 2: I can recognize, you know, you like.

874
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 1: Those rats in that study with you know, they had

875
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 1: the cocaine water up one end or whatever it was,

876
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 1: remember that study.

877
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. Well that's what I mean. It's like

878
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 2: I tell myself, it's okay, you can handle this. You

879
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 2: are a when to stop.

880
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, how's that working out for you? I just quickly,

881
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: we know you've got to go. And we really love

882
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: talking to you and know that you didn't need to

883
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:48,359
Speaker 1: do this, so we appreciate it. How you spoke momentarily

884
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 1: about life balance. You know, and you're still obviously still young,

885
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: young enough to work and young enough to produce and

886
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: create and keep learning and adapting and evolving and all

887
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: those cool things. But what does life balance look like

888
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: for you? You know, how much work, how much non work,

889
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 1: how much socializing? I don't know what is that? What

890
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: is that? How does that work for you?

891
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 2: I think it's one of the luckiest things for me

892
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 2: was that I figured a lot of those things out

893
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 2: really early. I mean early enough that I could do

894
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 2: something about it. Probably in my late twenties early thirties.

895
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 2: I was already starting to recognize what I needed to create,

896
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 2: what I felt was this full, full life. And it's

897
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 2: those components haven't really changed since then. And there's there's

898
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,760
Speaker 2: three of them. So for me, it's it's almost equal thirds.

899
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 2: Certainly I love the work. Obviously I in a position

900
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,280
Speaker 2: I don't need to do it for a living anymore.

901
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 2: But the things that motivated me to become an entrepreneur

902
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 2: have never gone away, regardless of the economic success I've

903
00:49:58,120 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 2: had from some of them, which is that I love

904
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 2: that process of solving problems. I love sitting on the

905
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 2: table with smart people, and I still get to do that.

906
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 2: I get to do it now more as a mentor.

907
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 2: I get to do it now with the podcast and

908
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 2: the other ways that I try and pay it forward.

909
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 2: But I try and make sure I limit that to

910
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 2: about a third of a week, and I really pay

911
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 2: a lot of attention to the ratio between want to

912
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 2: do and need to do. Listen, when we have team

913
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 2: people who are helping you, you have to do a

914
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 2: lot of stuff that you may not be want to do,

915
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 2: but you want to make sure you don't lose sight

916
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 2: of the things you want to do, and that's in

917
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 2: the work environment. So that's a big piece of it.

918
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 2: That's one part. But again I limit it, which is

919
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 2: one of the reasons why TIF had to fight so

920
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 2: hard to find the time to put us together is

921
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 2: because I limit I only do it for two days

922
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:47,720
Speaker 2: a week, and I crunch everything into those two days,

923
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 2: which means it's hard. Okay. Number two is I'm married.

924
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 2: I been married for a long time. I have three kids,

925
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 2: and I vowed a long long time ago that I

926
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 2: did not want to be an entrepreneur who is on

927
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,839
Speaker 2: their sixth company but also on their sixth life, and

928
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:11,760
Speaker 2: more importantly recognized in my late twenties that that would

929
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 2: not happen if the family and wife were the afterthoughts.

930
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,720
Speaker 2: That those are the things that I got to after

931
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 2: I focused on the business, that I had to make

932
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 2: that a big rock in my life, big enough that

933
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 2: everything else fit around it. And that's never stopped happening.

934
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 2: And so that whole piece of my wife, my family,

935
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 2: my friends, having time for all of them is a

936
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 2: big piece of it. So that's another third. But there's

937
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 2: a third piece, which is that I'm really passionate about

938
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 2: the outdoors about this is a very Australian thing, but

939
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 2: just being outside, you know, I surf, I ski, I

940
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 2: mountain bike, I climb, I kayak. Anything that involves being

941
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 2: outdoors with the potential chain of hospitalization count me in

942
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 2: and Unfortunately, though, I did not pick a hobby like

943
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 2: stamp collecting or chess. I picked something that requires frequently

944
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 2: getting on three planes in a row to go to

945
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 2: some place way up in northern Alaska and then spend

946
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:23,399
Speaker 2: ten days kayaking the Schoolerness River. And you cannot fit

947
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 2: that in between your eleven o'clock conference call on your

948
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 2: two o'clock meeting. You have to if you want those

949
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 2: things to happen, you have to make sure you construct

950
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 2: a life carefully to let that happen. So, when I

951
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 2: said your earlier question, do I think about how I think?

952
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,919
Speaker 2: I'm always evaluating that. I evaluate it in every week.

953
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 2: I evaluate them every month, I evaluate it in every year,

954
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 2: Which is, how do I do if I feel it

955
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 2: getting out of balance? Either getting out of balance because

956
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 2: I'm working too much and it's taking away on fine,

957
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 2: someone goes, let's go for a mountain bike ride and

958
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 2: I can't go. I ask myself, why, how? What am

959
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 2: I am? I prioritizing anything incorrectly? Here? Have I structured

960
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 2: something in a way that's preventing this from happening? And

961
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 2: I have to work that does not come as naturally

962
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:18,359
Speaker 2: to me as the entrepreneurship stuff. But the funny thing,

963
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 2: and this is the you know, we talked, We ruminated

964
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,839
Speaker 2: about success and about how I feel that so many

965
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 2: entrepreneurs are motivated by these wrong things. But I've certainly

966
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 2: had success from this one perspective which I have had.

967
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 2: You know, I've started pariering seven companies, and you know,

968
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 2: two of them are multi billion dollar companies, so unbelievably

969
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:44,840
Speaker 2: wonderful and lucky. But the thing that I'm proudest of

970
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 2: is not that. The thing I'm proudest of is doing

971
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 2: those things while staying married, while growing up with my

972
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 2: kids knowing me and liking me, I hope, and having

973
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 2: a chance to do the things that make me whole,

974
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 2: which is you know, the backcountry skiing and all those

975
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 2: things that that success have.

976
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 1: There you be so successful and balanced and make all

977
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 1: that dough and be a good human being, and stayed married.

978
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:11,400
Speaker 1: I think it was nine to eighty seven you got married.

979
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: I read thirty four years, three kids, geology undergrad degrees. Here,

980
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: what's that about? And he didn't even bloody do it.

981
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 1: It didn't bloody do anything with rocks. What's that about?

982
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you find them climber. Well, it is it's

983
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 2: basically that in school read I would see that the

984
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 2: geology majors, and they'd all be coming back from this

985
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 2: field trip. They're only piling out of the van and

986
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 2: they'd spent the whole weekend or a whole couple of

987
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:41,399
Speaker 2: days up in some incredibly beautiful mountain thing. And I went,

988
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 2: that sounds like the major for me. But it was

989
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 2: always about that I had had zero interest. Not there's

990
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 2: anything wrong with it in being a petrochemical engineer, being

991
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 2: a oil field worker or something like that.

992
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,399
Speaker 1: No, thank you, Ah, yeah, I'm with you. I could

993
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 1: ask you so many, got so many all things I

994
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 1: want to talk about, but I realize I can't, so

995
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 1: tiffle book in for twenty twenty six for our second

996
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,840
Speaker 1: conversation when I think that's your next opening.

997
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 2: Every four hundred, every four hundred of your episodes, book

998
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:15,800
Speaker 2: me on what As a matter of course, Okay, you've.

999
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 1: Just trippled my workload.

1000
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 2: He's going to roll out twenty seven a week now.

1001
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: Exactly right. You get on you, you bring your a game. Tif. Hey, Mark,

1002
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 1: we appreciate you so tell people just once again, for

1003
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 1: the people who have been slumbering through this the name

1004
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: of the podcast the name of the book and where

1005
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:35,799
Speaker 1: they can connect with you, and so on.

1006
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 2: So certainly the book is that will never work, as

1007
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 2: is the podcast that will never work, and both of

1008
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 2: them are available wherever you find whatever you're looking for,

1009
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,319
Speaker 2: and of course for all things Mark Randolph. If you

1010
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 2: don't have the time span, the pretension span for a

1011
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,240
Speaker 2: thirty minute podcast, you can get everything sliced and diced

1012
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:57,760
Speaker 2: into whatever sized nuggets you can digest at Mark Randolph

1013
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 2: dot com or all the various social media outlets that

1014
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 2: I am duty bound to keep posting content too.

1015
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 1: Of course, you are you, bloody champion. Thank you so

1016
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 1: much if you can stay on the cool after we

1017
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,840
Speaker 1: saw enough. Thanks for being on the show, Mike.

1018
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 2: Creg a pleasure being with you. This was really fun.

1019
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 2: And Tiff, thank you for coordinating all this. Both of

1020
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 2: us know none of this would happen without you. Thank you.

1021
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 1: It's exactly right. Thanks Tiff, Thanks hops, love you gots everyone,

1022
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:28,959
Speaker 1: See you next time.