WEBVTT - #2037 The Toddler Milk Scam - David Gillespie 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:01.160 I get a team. 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:03.720 It's the project. That's you at s Glespo, It's Harps, 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:07.240 it's Cookie. It's that time of the fortnight where the 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:10.480 great man from the Banana State, the Sunshine State drops 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:12.959 by and just bloody blows us away with his great, 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:19.040 big fucking brain and his questionable attitude. Loves TIF, hates me, 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:23.599 tolerates me anyway. That's the price. That's the price we pay. 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:29.320 We'll start with the world famous international, well traveled speaker 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:31.200 that is TIF. Cook will say a low to her, 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:32.960 the one with all the issues. 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:37.360 Hello Cookie, plenty of issues, but hello, Hello, Craig Anthony. 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:40.479 Harper, issues for days and you and I did a 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:44.760 podcast yesterday and there was one funny bit that we 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:48.199 had to leave out because of the potential lawsuits that 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:51.159 would have come our way. I did mention that it 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:56.040 was a zinger, and you sorry, David, I'll be thirteen seconds. 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:58.160 You did want to know what the zing? Can you 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:01.560 just confirm to the listeners that it was, in fact, hilaris, I. 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:04.959 Would like it was an absolute zinger. 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:09.240 Indeed, we'll tell David when we finished. We'll tell David. 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.680 Yeah, you better, Bloody will tell me. Yeah, it's been 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:17.039 going on about it. It's sad that political correctness is 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:20.000 a thing, because gee, it was good. Yeah. 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:21.880 Yeah, we were having fun and I was on a 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:24.000 bit of a role. I was already right at the 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:27.679 fucking edge. I was just I was just at the 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:32.160 edge of what is probably okay. And there was one 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:34.600 that was just would have been the icing on the 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:42.200 politically incorrect cake. Ah, But for some unknown reason, I 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:46.160 showed great restraint and but I'll share it with you. 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:48.120 But it would have been a fucking killer. But I 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:50.160 would have got a few emails. But anyway, I didn't. 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:51.840 How are you, David? 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:54.200 Yeah, all right, for a Wednesday? 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.240 What's going what's going on? Why are we doing it? 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.920 This at seven o'clock. Not that I'm not grateful. I'm 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.760 always grateful. Did you have a date earlier or something? 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:07.160 It's no, no, no, I just I have to it's boring. 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:09.560 I won't bore you with it. I had something else 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:10.880 on that had to be done. 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:16.120 Your actual job. Get in the road of this fullshit. 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:21.120 That's all right, Yeah, but this is Yeah. I thought 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:22.640 we might have a bit of a chat today about 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:23.680 baby food. What do you reckon? 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:28.680 Yeah, well, it's somebody told me about it earlier today? 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:32.880 Did you read David's article on formula is a formula? 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.920 Baby food formula? And then I went to try to 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.400 find it, and I definitely went to the wrong place, 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:40.960 and I thought it must be an old one, but 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:41.280 it's not. 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:46.840 You wrote it today, the Great baby food Scam. That's 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:48.200 not your title, that's mine. 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:53.359 Tell us, Okay. So we briefly talked about this a 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:55.520 little while ago when we talked about I think it 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:57.160 might have been been the last time, and we talked 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:01.359 about the immunity advantages for breast fee eating mothers, so 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:06.040 the immunity advantage that's given to their children, and I 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:07.919 think you asked right at the end of it about 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:11.600 you know, what what does this mean for women who 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.239 can't breastfeed and so on, And we talk briefly about 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:18.720 the fact that the very much the preferred thing is 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:23.320 that women breastfeed if they possibly can, preferably for twelve. 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:27.280 Th sorry, also my bad. We're talking about reduced incidents 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:31.520 of certain or potential correlations with disease were lower for 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:34.720 women who breastfeed first, that's right, yeah, yeah. 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:41.280 And for their children as well. So they're undoubted, undoubted 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:45.560 advantages to breastfeeding, and so you know, reiterate once again, 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:49.160 if women can possibly breastfeed, then A they should do it, 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:50.360 and b they should do it for as long as 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:53.480 they can, preferably twelve months. I know twelve months is 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:57.560 to be asked, but if you can at all manage it, 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:01.120 then it's the advantages not only for the baby, which 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:04.360 are huge, but also for the mother significant as well. Now, 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:07.280 because of that, the World Health Organization in nineteen ninety 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:13.200 two major pronouncement that said that essentially and also asked 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:17.680 formula manufacturers as a result of some quite nasty marketing 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:20.839 techniques that were going on, particularly with Nesle in Africa, 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:23.400 where they were just basically encouraging women who are quite 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:27.080 capable of breastfeeding to use formula using god knows what 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:33.159 water that they found to mix with it and obviously 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:37.279 processed by the mother's body and then delivered. Is much much, 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:41.279 much safer in those circumstances than mixing milk powder with 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:45.480 water where the waters of dubious origin. So there were 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.360 some big scandals about that. World Health Organization ninety ninety 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.480 two came to a historic agreement with a lot of 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:55.880 the world's formula manufacturers and came out with a statement 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:59.719 that said rest is best basically, and everyone's going to 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.839 agree that, and a lot of the manufacturers said that 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:05.160 they would put things to that effect on their websites 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:08.040 and put out press releases to that effect and make 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:13.880 sure that they didn't encourage women to use formula during 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:20.479 the first twelve months. Now, how that translated into Australian 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:24.080 law is quite interesting because what happened here is the 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:29.760 ahable C, who are our regulator for competition, basically had 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.360 a gentleman's agreement with the big Australian manufacturers that they 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:40.320 would not advertise formula. So what's called infant formula or 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.279 stage is one and two, which is six months and 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:44.960 twelve months the first six months and then follow on 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:48.840 which is the twelve months. They wouldn't advertise that in 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:53.320 the Australian market. And while that the Australian Competition Commission 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.479 would normally be against people agreeing not to advertise things 0:05:56.560 --> 0:06:00.600 because that's anti competitive and they want people to compete, 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:04.760 they felt that the benefit of this, in accordance with 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:09.400 the World Health Organization's pronouncement, was was worth the effect 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.240 on competition, and so they had this gentleman's agreement with 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.880 all the big manufacturers, we're okay with you agreeing not 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:17.880 to advertise this, and we in fact want you to 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:22.560 not advertise this. And that was the way it's been 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:26.200 for the last thirty years, where the big manufacturers have said, 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:30.239 we are not going to advertise formula because we don't 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:36.599 want to talk people out of breastfeeding, except there's been 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.000 a loophole you could drive a truck through in this, 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:43.360 which is there was absolutely nothing to stop them doing 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:47.960 exactly what they did do, which was create essentially sugar milk, 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:54.279 call it Stage three formula, branded exactly the same as 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:56.240 the Stage one and two that they were not going 0:06:56.240 --> 0:07:00.080 to advertise, and then advertise the hell out of it. 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:04.760 So what they did was say, yeah, yeah, we agree, 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:06.720 we're not going to advertise formula. We're not going to 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:09.800 go out and compete with breastfeeding, not going to do that, 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:14.040 all perfectly fine, and they haven't. They haven't advertised infant formula. 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:20.040 What they have advertised heavily is tins of staff that 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:26.320 look identical and I mean identical to that those formulas 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:32.640 and said, but we'll advertise that, ah, but it's not this, 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:37.040 it's not we're not advertising the infant formula. We're advertising 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:41.880 toddler milk. Now, toddler milk is skim milk plus sugar. Okay, 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:47.760 has zero nutritional benefit whatsoever. But it's advertised heavily on 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:52.440 television anywhere you want to look, and it is also 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:54.960 branded exactly the same. So is what does someone do 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:56.760 when they go to the supermarket and they see the 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:59.560 tins there and there's the infant formula and the toleert milk, 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.320 and it all looks it's exactly the same. Yeah, they 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:05.320 go ahead and buy the infant formula, thinking, oh, all 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:07.880 these health benefits blah blah blah that they're talking about, 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:11.960 that's fine. And so effectively what they've done is create 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:17.680 a half billion dollar industry out of doing what they 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:22.520 promised not to do. And this year the A Trible 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:26.880 C said enough's enough, mate, enough's enough. We're not going 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:30.600 with this anymore. Okay, you're not abiding by the spirit 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:34.120 of the agreement. It's over. Our handshake deal is out 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.560 the window. So the A Triple C said that earlier 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:40.760 this year, and the federal government has said, yeah, we agree, 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:44.240 we're going to We're actually going to it's no longer voluntary. 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:46.840 We're going to introduce laws that stop you doing this. 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:51.839 Can I just interject for one secon because I'm a 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:55.240 sixty year old man who knows fuck all about toddlers. 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:57.880 Is a toddler like two years plus? 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:02.359 Is that at all? What they agreed not to advertise 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:06.600 too was anything under one because the stuff fed to 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:10.040 children under the age of one is very very heavily regulated, 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:14.120 so you can't fill it with sugar. It's got to 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:19.239 be exact formula within exact ranges, so it's very heavily regulated, 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:22.800 particularly in Australia, and they agreed they wouldn't advertise that 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.600 because it's meant to be an alternative to breastfeeding only 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:32.040 when breastfeeding is not possible, so they didn't. They haven't 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:33.920 advertised with that, But what they do is they call 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:37.800 it so formulas are broken up into what's called stage 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.080 one and stage two. Stage one is the first six 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:43.320 months has a very particular formula associated with it. Stage 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:46.360 two is what's called supplemental feeding, which is by six 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:49.960 months the child should be having some solids, and so 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:54.319 the formula that has fed to them changes to give 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:56.640 them different things in the second six months. So that's 0:09:56.679 --> 0:10:00.360 Stage two formula. Now, what the food companies did is 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.960 invent something that didn't exist, and they've branded it as 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:07.640 Stage three formula, and what that means is from twelve 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:10.720 months onwards, and then also from Stage four formula, which 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:14.560 I think is from eighteen months or two years on now. 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:19.040 Stage three and four formula are sugar and skim milk powder. Okay, 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:22.200 they're not formula at all, but you wouldn't know that 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:24.679 from looking at them. So if you have a look 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.160 at the article that I've read, I've actually put up 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:31.680 some comparative shots of one of the brands and I 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:34.600 just picked one at random, at the optimal, which is 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:37.800 one that's sold in Australia. I've put their Stage one 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:40.160 and their Stage three side by side, and I defy 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:43.839 you aside from the one and the three to tell 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:50.400 the difference. Right, they're identical, So the branding, the marketing, 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.400 it's all identical. And that's the bit that the A 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:57.280 Trip will see has a problem with. Yes, they're saying 0:10:57.360 --> 0:10:59.600 this is not the spirit of what we agreed. You 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:05.520 are effectively advertising because you're using identical branding, and the 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:08.440 government has agreed with them and said yes, that's not 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:10.760 on we you know, the gentleman's agreements out the door. 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:12.520 We're going to legislate and you're not going to win. 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:16.439 When is this going to be enforced, like when it's. 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:20.960 Well yes, well you know, in the fullness of time, Craig. 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:24.520 Oh, you sounded like a lawyer. 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:29.960 Then yeah, they're gonna They're gonna do it. The Age 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:35.120 will See made its decision early this year. The government 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:39.360 has said it's within their legislative time frame. I'm not 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:42.080 sure what that means. It hasn't happened yet, let's just 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:47.000 say that, but there's intent there now. The reason I 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:50.600 even looked at this now, besides our excellent conversation earlier 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:54.320 about it, was there's a case. It's made some big 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.719 waves in the United States. Well, two cases in the 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.960 United States that made some big ways. One that fail 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:04.920 held dramatically, and it's interesting for why it failed, which 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:08.320 was a case of a person suing a big food 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:13.520 essentially suing the big food manufacturers for his diabetes. So 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:17.400 had diabetes, got diabetes from the age of sixteen, type 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:21.959 two diabetes, and suing the food manufacturers and saying you 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:26.160 cause this, so it's like cigarette smoking. Therefore you owe 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:28.600 me for the health tream. 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:32.439 Of particular manufacture, any particular manufacturers. 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:34.920 Or and that's the problem right there. Good old Judge 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:39.920 Harper on the bench has has nailed it immediately, nailed 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:42.800 it immediately. Why his lawyers didn't nail it immediately is 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.640 beyond me. The case. So the two in particular that 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:50.440 he sued were Craft and Heinz, I think, but there 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:54.520 were others joined as well, so the case was Martinez 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:57.520 versus Craft, heins. Of course I put the link in 0:12:57.559 --> 0:12:59.880 the in the article for anyone who wants to read lawcue. 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:05.480 And it was being billed as really the first of 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.719 the sort of like big tobacco type cases. You know, 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:12.480 the punter you know, smoked all their lives, dying of 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.319 lung cancer. This is the same thing, but with type 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:19.319 two diabetes and FATI liver disease. So he's nineteen, he's 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:22.480 had diabetes since he was sixteen, he says, and he's 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:27.080 suing them and saying, you people cause this. The judge 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:32.079 dismissed it for the reasons you would have guessed first, 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:36.880 what exactly was it that caused this? You know, he's 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:41.120 saying he's got eleven defendants, Craft, Heinz, Coca, Cola, PepsiCo, 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:46.040 et cetera, one hundred of their brands, Oreo's, Ritz, Gerber Chocolates, 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:49.040 et cetera in the United States. So it didn't name, 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.960 it didn't nail a specific product or even a specific 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:56.440 ingredient in the product that was supposed to have caused 0:13:56.440 --> 0:14:03.120 his diabetes. And also, who you know, there's loads of 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:07.160 potential defendants making loads of products. And this was the 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:09.840 big problem with a lot of the early cigarette cases 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:13.400 in the sixties and seventies is people would say, I'm seventy, 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:17.000 I'm dying of lung cancer. The smokes caused it, and 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:20.160 courts would say, well, maybe you're right, but which smokes? 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:26.000 Did you smoke the same cigarettes your entire life? You know, No, 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:28.120 I didn't. I changed from that brand to that brand 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:30.600 of that brand. I smoke whatever I could get. Well, 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:32.960 there you go. Your case is toast. And that's what's 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:36.400 happened here as well, which is establishing causation what it's 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:41.040 called in law, is really difficult where you can't say 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:46.280 for certain was it that person's product that caused this disease. Now, 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.320 the science is really clear that if you consume vast 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.480 amounts of sugar over an extended period of time, you 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:57.800 will likely contract type two diabetes, fatterly liver disease, hard disease, 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:02.760 a whole raft of things. Okay, but sugar is in everything, 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.640 So who are you going to tool if you're going 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:10.280 to go after them. Much more likely to succeed are 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:15.920 cases where you've got a really controlled food environment. So 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:20.480 for example, if you're in the baby, yes, or we'll 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:22.880 get to the baby. But in the military, for example, 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.280 if you've been in the military since the age of eighteen, 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:28.720 you've been there thirty years, they've been feeding you everything 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:33.240 that you eat, then they are probably responsible for anything 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:35.880 that is caused as a result of whatever you eat. 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.040 At least there you've got a defendant. Now, there might 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:40.840 be lots of different manufacturers, but at the end of 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:42.560 the day, it was the military that was telling you 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:44.240 what to eat and in serving it and putting it 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:47.400 in front of you. So potentially, or in an institution, 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:51.040 in a hospital, or in an asylum or something like that, 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.600 where your food supply is entirely controlled, the other place is, 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:59.280 as you correctly identify Judge Harper, if you're a baby, 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.400 we had a lot of life before your only source 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.400 of nutrition is the thing that's being supplied out of 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:12.680 a tin. Yes, so that's potentially an interesting cause of action. 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:17.240 And to test that, there's another case in the United 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:22.080 States that's just kicked off called Castro and Laboratories, where 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:26.880 Castro is suing the makers of a baby formula in 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:28.040 the United States. 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:32.640 What condition did the kid get? Like, what's the malaise? 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:34.640 What's the ah? 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:38.920 Now? See alleged lawyer es, well, they didn't go that 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.240 way at all. That's a trap for young players, right. 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:45.680 They saw what happened with Martinez and they said, no, no, 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:49.440 we're not after that at all. What we are after 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:55.480 is misrepresentation. You represented to us that this was infant 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.040 formula and that it was safe and healthy. But your 0:16:58.080 --> 0:16:59.960 product is twenty three percent sugar. 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:05.680 Yes, surely that was identified on the packaging though, because 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:06.600 that's a requirement. 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.359 Sure. I don't know if you've ever looked at a 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:13.200 baby formula package, but it does identify lots of things 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:17.399 on it. In fact, there's security and obscurity. There's about 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:22.040 a thousand things identified between the vitamins and the minerals 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:23.720 and the breaking down of the certain types of facts 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:26.119 and so on and so forth, and so forth, I defy 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:29.760 any normal person to read all that fine print and 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:31.879 come to the conclusion that this isn't something that they 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:34.400 should feed to their child. And besides all of that, 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:37.840 people know in the back of their mind, even if 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:40.639 they're not studying the law, they have a suspicion the 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:48.920 baby food is probably heavily regulated. Yeah, and they think that, Well, 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:51.960 I keep on feeding my child this thing that looks 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:54.000 exactly the same as the thing that I know I've 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:55.920 been feeding them in stage one and two, and they 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:57.919 tell me I should buy Stage three and feed it 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:01.320 to them. But what I'm actually feeding them is a 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:03.920 chocolate milkshake. By the time I get to stage three, 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:08.040 they're saying, there's the problem. Yes, there's the problem. 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:11.520 Yeah. I mean that what I was going to say too, 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:15.159 is like broadly, you know, zooming out from the micro 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.199 of baby food and formula to the macro of just 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:23.359 food in general. Like the reason that the nutritional information 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:25.359 is on the back down the bottom in the right 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:29.119 hand corner, and it's a size two font is because 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.320 they don't want us to pay attention to it. 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:33.679 It's there because they're required to put it there. It 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:36.360 wouldn't be there if they weren't correct. 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:40.440 Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And so okay, so 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:45.960 what's happening with this case with the misreddentation. 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:49.879 That one's still about hasn't made it to court yet. 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:53.840 In the United States, much more likely to succeed because 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:58.840 there they're not relying on this question about did your 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:03.520 product cause this disease? They're going they're going sort of 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:07.000 like the I guess what was the buggy was the 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:12.080 what were those famous outlaws? It Bugsy Malone and the 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:17.480 bugs alone and anyway, well, one of those famous outlaws 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:20.600 probably was bugs Malone. I've forgotten now chief will have 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:22.160 it before we even get to the end of the sentence. 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:26.000 There were ones they didn't get him on shooting people 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:30.200 and killing people and being an outlaw and taxation and 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:31.560 that's the one al Capone. 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:34.639 They got him on tax Yeah, tax fraud. 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.000 Yeah, So here is it's a little reminiscent of that. 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:41.359 You know, maybe they go down on misrepresentation, not on 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:46.040 the thing that actually happened. In Australia, we don't even 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:47.960 have to rely on that because we've got a regulator 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:53.359 saying we're done, this is deceptive conduct. We want legislation 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:57.760 that stops this happening. We're still a step further though, 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:01.000 before we can start saying and your product has caused 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:03.200 this disease, and you owe me a lot of money, 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.440 but at least in terms of deceptive marketing, there may 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:11.520 be some damages there if this case succeed in the 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:14.119 United States. Where we need to get to though, is 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:16.880 where it got to with the tobacco legislation in the end, 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:20.399 which is it didn't. There were a couple of cases 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:24.040 that did succeed because the person could prove that this 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:26.919 was the only brand of cigarette they had to ever smoked, 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:31.439 so they could prove I have smoked your cigarettes and 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:36.720 nothing else my entire life, and they succeeded. Unfortunately, often 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:40.800 they died before they did succeed. So there are states succeeded. 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:46.440 But where the big money cases came in the tobacco 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:50.720 litigation in the United States was when the state attorney 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:54.320 generals took the cases on behalf of their health systems. 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:58.840 So they said, our health system has to pay for 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:04.440 the consequences of you selling a product which causes disease. Yeah, 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.159 so you owe us money for the cost of doing that. 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:11.880 Those are the cases that succeeded in the tobacco wars, 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:14.960 and they're likely to be the cases that succeed here too. 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:18.159 Is it Ultimately we are going to have governments saying 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:23.359 you are selling a product that causes disease and that 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:25.960 we have to pick up the tab for you owe 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:28.000 us money. Wow. 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.959 Like, I'm just thinking, I'm actually googling right now how 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:35.880 much sugar in Last time I looked at neutra grain, 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:37.919 I'm just thinking, it's not It's not a big stretch 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:40.800 to go to cereals, is it. Like last time I 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:43.520 looked at something like neutragrain, it was like thirty six 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:48.560 grams of sugar per hundred Like yeah, I mean, I 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:50.680 mean you've done You've done all the cereals and stuff 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:53.639 I know with your research. But does that just open 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:57.040 a door for people then to because you know, the 0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:01.240 breakfast of champions, like all these Olympians who are selling 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:03.360 this stuff kind. 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:06.959 Of well it is, I mean, And there's problematic advertising 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:09.320 right now with I think it's one of the cocoa 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:16.960 pops one with that comedian doing it, where advertising high 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:20.159 sugar cereal on the basis that it's full of energy 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:22.920 or full of protein, and what they mean is it's 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:26.640 full of sugar and we've put some protein in it 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:29.760 because otherwise we've got nothing to sell it. So we 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:31.720 can't say this is a high sugar cereal. So we'll 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:34.359 call it a high protein cereal or a high energy cereal. 0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:38.600 But there's nothing good about breakfast real, nothing good about 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:42.439 breakfast cereal. You know, if you ask me, well, what 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:44.320 breakfast cereal should I eat, I'd say, well, don't eat 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:46.960 any breakfast cereal, but if you must, if you feel 0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:49.320 it you can't get through the morning without a breakfast cereal, 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:51.600 then wheatbix is pretty much the only option. 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:55.960 Yeah. Yeah, it's got minimal sugar and it's like. 0:22:56.040 --> 0:22:58.040 Well, it's got no added sugar in it. So it's 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:01.600 about two grams per hundred so, you know, which is 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:06.680 basically the sugar content of wheat. So it's that's fine. 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:11.200 But everything else is just loaded with sugar. I mean, 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:14.200 even corn flakes, which you wouldn't most people wouldn't identify 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:18.240 as containing much sugar. Most people add sugar to it. 0:23:18.359 --> 0:23:21.440 You know, even cornflakes is ten percent sugar, and that's 0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:24.240 really really low as far as breakfast reals go. Most 0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:26.520 of them are twenty twenty five thirty thirty five percent 0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:28.919 sugar because no one would eat that cardboard without all 0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:31.000 the sugar in it, honestly one percent. 0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:33.959 What happens. So let's say with this one, with the 0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:39.600 you know, the misrepresentation around the formula or the toddler's 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:44.720 food or whatever it is. What let's say they win 0:23:44.800 --> 0:23:46.960 that case and they win a whole heap of dough. 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:50.720 Does that then mean people start coming out of the woodwork. 0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:51.640 Does that mean. 0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:55.960 That that that company has to do a complete one? 0:23:56.000 --> 0:23:59.000 Are they're probably going to do one eighty already, But like, 0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:02.480 what are some of the consequences of that litigation? 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:07.119 Well, I suspect if they succeed besides them getting money, 0:24:07.359 --> 0:24:08.960