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Speaker 1: But we're starting the morning with a couple of guests

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Speaker 1: in the studio, Senator Jackie Lambee and former Senator Rex Patrick.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you both.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Good morning.

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Speaker 1: So, Rex Patrick, you're running as a Senate candidate under

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Speaker 1: the Jackie Lambye network banner in the upcoming federal poll

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Speaker 1: former political colleagues. Obviously in the Senate, you share some

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Speaker 1: of the same values you served as a senator from

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Speaker 1: twenty seventeen to twenty twenty two as part of the

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Speaker 1: Nick Xenophon. Why Jackie Lambee, is this just a way

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Speaker 1: to get in an easy way as opposed to running

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Speaker 1: as you did last time as an independent.

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Look, it is very difficult to run as an independent.

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Speaker 2: You do have to get a lot of votes to

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Speaker 2: get a seat in the Senate. But look, I've been

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Speaker 2: standing back looking at what's been happening in Canberra and

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Speaker 2: I'm quite disappointed. The choices in moving forward are not great.

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Speaker 2: And just the ability to go in with a small

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Speaker 2: party where there's the only faction that will be in

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Speaker 2: the Jackie Lamby network. In terms of me and her

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Speaker 2: is that she's army and I'm navy. But look, you

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Speaker 2: know I tell people and often people are really shocked

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Speaker 2: by this. I just talk I talk about in the

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Speaker 2: past when I used to walk into the Senate chamber

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Speaker 2: to vote, I'd sometimes be sitting with the Liberals. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: I'd be sitting with Labor, and I'd say to my colleagues,

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Speaker 2: what are your voting on? Do you know what we're

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Speaker 2: voting on? And they'd just shake the head and say no,

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Speaker 2: they did not know. They'd walk into the chamber and

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Speaker 2: they'd look to see whether Whip was sitting and they'd

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Speaker 2: either sit on the yes or no side, depending on

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Speaker 2: where the Whip was. Where As an independent, as a

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Speaker 2: small party, you know exactly what you're voting for. You

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Speaker 2: vote for your constituents, not for your party, all right,

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Speaker 2: Jackie lamby y Rix Patrick.

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Speaker 4: For me, I think with Rex because he's just a

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Speaker 4: great performer, that's bottom line. He puts the ols in,

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Speaker 4: he works his butt off, and bottom line is he's

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Speaker 4: basically like a phantom senator anyway, because if he gave

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Speaker 4: me any more of his time of data so Rex

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Speaker 4: does a lot for me in the background and helping

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Speaker 4: me out. Otherwise I can tell you now I wouldn't

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Speaker 4: wouldn't be able to perform at the level on performing

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Speaker 4: if Rex wasn't beside me, because the work that he

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Speaker 4: does on the sidelines is phenomenal, so that is very helpful.

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Speaker 4: So it's just like getting back up there. We are

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Speaker 4: truly independent. We sit in the center. We have to

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Speaker 4: look at every piece of legislation, we have to go

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Speaker 4: through all that. This is nothing unusual for Rex and I.

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Speaker 4: We've known each other for years and quite frankly, South

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Speaker 4: Australia is an independent and if I can, if I

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Speaker 4: can give him my face to use to run beside

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Speaker 4: him to get him up, then I'm going to do

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Speaker 4: that because I believe that is the best thing that

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Speaker 4: we could do.

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Speaker 1: For the nation. Well, you both have the strong military backgrounds.

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Speaker 1: Is that a factor? Was that really important to you?

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Speaker 1: That he is ex Navy?

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Speaker 4: Well let's worry about the X Navy thing. But I

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Speaker 4: just think we do have very similar values. Obviously, we

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Speaker 4: have served, we know the expectations, we know we know

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Speaker 4: what is expected to be done, and quite frankly, it's

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Speaker 4: about the loyalty and all that sort of stuff and

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Speaker 4: the trust and everything. It's already there.

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Speaker 1: Okay, aucas where do you sit on that?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Some with where Rex does I just think it's an

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Speaker 4: absolute waste of money. We've already spent billions of dollars

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Speaker 4: and we've got nothing to see for. We've got nothing

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Speaker 4: in front of us to see for that money. And

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Speaker 4: I also believe that by the time they are built,

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Speaker 4: that's if it ever occurs, they're just going to be absolute.

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Speaker 4: I just don't think they're going to be They're not

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Speaker 4: going to be functional enough for where we're going in

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Speaker 4: twenty years time. I just think it's absolutely ridiculous. The

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Speaker 4: wars are fought these days with missiles and drones, and

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Speaker 4: that's where we should be heading, not towards spending billions

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Speaker 4: of dollars on something that is just not going to

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Speaker 4: be is not going to be functional against everybody else's

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Speaker 4: equipment out there around the world.

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Speaker 1: But the secrecy of a sub operating quietly and efficiently

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Speaker 1: and gathering information and intel underwater, invisible hopefully and not

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Speaker 1: appearing on radars, that surely is a huge asset in

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Speaker 1: its own right. So I'll jump in as that's a

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Speaker 1: former submarine perform sub marina. Look, submarines do provide great capability,

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Speaker 1: and that includes in peacetime and are a good deterrent

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Speaker 1: but you don't put all of your eggs in one basket,

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Speaker 1: and that's what.

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Speaker 2: We're seeing here. We're seeing the ADF being sapped of

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Speaker 2: money in order to have this one capability. And my

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Speaker 2: big fear is that we'll get to twenty thirty five,

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Speaker 2: the US will not give us a submarine because they

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Speaker 2: simply are not able to build enough to meet their

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Speaker 2: requirements and ours, and that's going to leave us in

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Speaker 2: a really awful place. We should be looking at perhaps

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Speaker 2: spending thirty billion dollars on twenty off the shelf submarines

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Speaker 2: built here in South Australia, and that's a build that

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Speaker 2: could start in the next couple of years. The important

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Speaker 2: thing we need for South Australia is someone who understands

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Speaker 2: the space, keeping a really close eye on what's happening

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Speaker 2: here to make sure that South Austrainian industry prospers, that

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Speaker 2: they would get a defense force that is highly capable.

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Speaker 2: At the moment, this is a national security folly, three

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Speaker 2: hundred and sixty eight billion dollars for submarines that will arrive,

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Speaker 2: in my view, well after its intended purpose. It's like

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Speaker 2: getting a really good football team putting a really good

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Speaker 2: football team together after the Grand Final.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Rex, you're taking a gamble joining the Jackie Lamby

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Speaker 1: network because you'd be very well aware. The elections in

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Speaker 1: Tasmania some six months ago, three Jackie Lambie candidates were

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Speaker 1: elected to state parliament. Two have since walked out of

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Speaker 1: the party. Just can't work with Jackie. You're taking a risk. Well,

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Speaker 1: look the answer to that is no. I'll just very

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Speaker 1: briefly talk about Tasmania. Jackie gave three people a chance

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Speaker 1: that they would never have had getting into the Tasmanian Parliament. Now,

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Speaker 1: unfortunately what's happened is they didn't have a mentor someone

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Speaker 1: close to them that could guide them Jackie and well

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Speaker 1: Jackie had responsibilities in the Senate and the problem is

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Speaker 1: that two of them got word by the Liberal Party

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Speaker 1: dinners all those sorts of things, and you know, it's

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Speaker 1: really hard sometimes to.

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Speaker 2: Not be sort of seduced by power. And that's in

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Speaker 2: my view what has happened here. Now that's not going

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Speaker 2: to happen in the federal space. I'm very experienced in

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Speaker 2: the Senate. Jackie's very experienced in the Senate. Her other

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Speaker 2: candidate's a wise older characters. We don't think we'll end

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Speaker 2: up with the same problem. We know we can work together.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so if a split comes, I mean you'll end

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Speaker 1: up as an independent again, I suppose.

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Speaker 2: Well again, I'm not contemplating that, but you back to

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Speaker 2: the Tasmanian thing. Just you can't keep the bastards on

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Speaker 2: us if you're want of the bastards.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Jackie Lambi, if I could ask you, and you've

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Speaker 1: been obviously with your background, very strong in the defense space.

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Speaker 1: The ADF Royal Commission has come out one hundred and

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Speaker 1: twenty two recommendations for change you hopefully they're going to

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Speaker 1: be implemented.

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Speaker 4: Not after the antics of the last two weeks. It

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Speaker 4: really nearly brings tears to my eyes. Actually it's just

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Speaker 4: been a really long ten days up there. But when

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Speaker 4: you know that AID any of those recommendations are about

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Speaker 4: the military justice system, and the first thing that you

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Speaker 4: do this week is you try and move a report

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Speaker 4: of the Royal Commissioner's website when quite frankly, that report

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Speaker 4: is nothing that we haven't already heard, and the first

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Speaker 4: thing you do is try and remove that and cover

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Speaker 4: that up. I don't think that is a good look

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Speaker 4: for the government, and quite Frankly, I, like many other

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Speaker 4: veterans out there, are going what the hell you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm starting to feel to the point where is why

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Speaker 4: do we all have to go through that angst again,

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Speaker 4: tell our stories, drag our families through it. And the

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Speaker 4: first thing that they do is that they want to

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Speaker 4: cover up a report that was already on the Royal

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Speaker 4: Commissioner's website.

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Speaker 1: So this was a report, for people who don't know,

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Speaker 1: a report that was published allegedly inadvertently and was then removed.

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Speaker 1: You'd taken screenshots of it in the meantime and have

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Speaker 1: published it. Anyway, it's then reappeared. Should it have been

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Speaker 1: published in the first place.

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Speaker 4: It was published in the first place because the Royal

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Speaker 4: Commissioners wanted it published. So you can hear what you

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Speaker 4: can listen to the Governor of the day. You know,

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Speaker 4: it was made very quite clear it was ready for publication,

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Speaker 4: that was written on the original document that was put

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Speaker 4: up there on that website. So well, like I said,

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Speaker 4: there's nothing that we didn't already know that it was

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Speaker 4: in that report. And the first thing they want to

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Speaker 4: do is they want to cover up and once again

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Speaker 4: nobody's held responsible. Why is Inspector General still sitting there.

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Speaker 4: You know, why was his time extended when we knew

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Speaker 4: he was doing a bad job anyway?

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: So I think that if they're going to really give

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Speaker 4: us some hope, then some heads need to roll, and

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Speaker 4: those heads the very top of the brass. It's time

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Speaker 4: for them to leave. So go and tell them to leave,

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Speaker 4: or sack them, but show us that you mean business.

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Speaker 2: Can I just say or something? In relation to these documents,

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Speaker 2: Jackie saw access through a Senate order. I sought access

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Speaker 2: through an FOI, and both instances the government said, we're

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Speaker 2: not going to release this until such time as we've

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Speaker 2: considered it and made decisions. That's not how democracy works.

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Speaker 2: People are allowed to be engaged and involved in democracy.

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Speaker 2: The government shouldn't be presenting citizens with a fatal complain, Jackie.

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Speaker 1: Is it about culture in the ADF that needs to change?

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Speaker 3: Is that?

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Speaker 1: Essentially? It is that the biggest issue.

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Speaker 4: It is the culture. It is shocking culture in there.

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Speaker 4: They are a law within themselves, they police themselves, they

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Speaker 4: deal with themselves. They're an institution and this is the problem,

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Speaker 4: and they don't want to take responsibility that, you know,

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Speaker 4: the fish, what is it the fish what's from the

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Speaker 4: head down. You know, until they clear out that top eschelon,

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Speaker 4: nothing is going to change. And quite frankly, when you

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Speaker 4: can see that you've heard all these raw commission recommendations

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Speaker 4: come through, We've run through this three years, and these

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Speaker 4: people still think at the top that they're capable of

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Speaker 4: being there and haven't seen that they've been part of

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Speaker 4: the problem and haven't resigned. I think that says it all.

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Speaker 1: How do you ensure then if they do resign, if

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Speaker 1: they're sacked, whatever happens, commission's not renewed, the next lot

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Speaker 1: coming through don't have that same culture within them.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 4: Once again, what needs to be done here is the

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Speaker 4: Astrange Defense Force Academy ad FAR, which is pretty much

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Speaker 4: for a little rich kids there to go through. That

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Speaker 4: needs to be disbanded. Okay, it's not working. That's where

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Speaker 4: the problem starts. That's where your culture starts. Everything's given

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Speaker 4: to them on a silver platter. It has been a problem,

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Speaker 4: and there is a lot in that roll Commission evidence

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Speaker 4: that actually, if you have a look at it, probably

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Speaker 4: takes it back to that everybody should go through the

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Speaker 4: same training in the first three months and then you

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Speaker 4: through Kopuka like everyone else. Everyone starts at the bottom line,

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Speaker 4: and over the next two to five years you will

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Speaker 4: see the leaders because they will stick their heads up.

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Speaker 4: You'll see them because they'll out shine over everybody else.

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Speaker 4: That's the way it should be done.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Rix Patrick, before I know, you've got a media

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Speaker 1: conference coming up, So can I just ask You've been

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Speaker 1: opportunistic here, politically opportunistic, and you did work for Nick Xenophon,

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Speaker 1: you joined his party, you ran and stood as a senator.

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Speaker 1: You're doing the same for Jackie Lamby. It's just a

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Speaker 1: matter of just a vehicle to get into the Senate.

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Speaker 2: Actually, Jackie will tell you that for the last probably

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Speaker 2: a year or so, she's been asking me, and I've

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Speaker 2: been very very hesitant about this. I've been in a

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Speaker 2: lot of great work in the transparency space, holding government

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Speaker 2: to account separately. But now she's now twisted my arm

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Speaker 2: and look, I know, and I've thought this through very

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Speaker 2: very carefully. I know I can do something in the Senate.

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Speaker 2: I can do more in the Senate, and South Australia

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Speaker 2: does need some independent representatives. All we've got in the

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Speaker 2: Senate at the moment are Liberal Labor and Green Senators

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Speaker 2: and they often have to stick within their guardrails. South

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Speaker 2: Australian needs someone who can take on any issue for them.

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Speaker 1: Slip on your headphones. We've got Dave from Craigburn Farm

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Speaker 1: on the line. He's got questions for you on the

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Speaker 1: on super and aged care. God, Damien getay there.

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Speaker 3: Look just in support of Jackie and Rex. It's great

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Speaker 3: to see that independent voice and the work that Jackie

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Speaker 3: has done in the Senate. However, as a voter, and

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Speaker 3: of course at the next federal election, I'll be certainly

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Speaker 3: closely looking at the ballot paper to where I preference

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Speaker 3: you guys, but I'm interested to know you know, what's

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Speaker 3: your policy platform in relation to superannuation and age care.

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Speaker 3: It's good to obviously be a single issue party, but

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Speaker 3: I do think that there's there's two areas of policy

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Speaker 3: area that are pretty important, age care and superannuation.

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Speaker 4: Are you talking about the changes that they're proposing now

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Speaker 4: that you're going to pay a lot more out of

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Speaker 4: your super and the more money you have in the super.

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Speaker 3: Correct?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 4: And the other problem you have in age care is

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Speaker 4: we went through that raw commission another one and quite frankly,

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Speaker 4: hardly you need. Those recommendations have been touched, which has

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Speaker 4: been devastating. So I think I haven't seen that legislation.

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Speaker 4: I actually haven't seen that bill written up. This is

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Speaker 4: just talk that they're saying at the moment, so I

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Speaker 4: need to see what they're doing. But quite frankly, the

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Speaker 4: amount of money you have to pay to go into

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Speaker 4: age care is absolutely frightening. I'm a big one to

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Speaker 4: say that the longer we can leave you in your

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Speaker 4: homes and give you the help that you need, the

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Speaker 4: better off you are, the healthier you are, and the

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Speaker 4: longer you live.

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Speaker 2: And just to talk about a lot of the problems,

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Speaker 2: whether it's healthcare, age care, any of the social services,

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Speaker 2: money is really tight. It seems to be really tight

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Speaker 2: for things that are sort of social benefits. But then

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Speaker 2: we can spend three hundred and sixty eight billion dollars

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Speaker 2: on a grandiose submarine. There's a whole bunch of things

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Speaker 2: we can do to get more money into the coffers,

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Speaker 2: just getting the right royalties for our gas, for example,

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Speaker 2: just getting the right amount of tax being paid by multinationals,

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Speaker 2: stopping defense waste. We spent four billion dollars not buying

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Speaker 2: a submarine and that sort of thing has to stop.

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Speaker 2: And one of the problems you have, particularly in things

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Speaker 2: like defense where there's a lot of waste, the duopoly

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Speaker 2: just they just won't go there. And we've got to

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Speaker 2: start holding you, for example, defense, I'm a big support

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Speaker 2: of defense. We've got to start holding them to account

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Speaker 2: in terms of these procurement failures. We can actually get

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Speaker 2: a lot more money into the coffers that can allow

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Speaker 2: us to do a whole lot more. We just have

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Speaker 2: to be smart about it.

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Speaker 4: And I'll just say this, it's pretty crappy, isn't it

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Speaker 4: when you've been paying taxes all your life and we

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Speaker 4: just want a few years where you look at it,

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Speaker 4: look after us in age care and it's costing. You know,

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Speaker 4: it's now going to be a class thing on how

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Speaker 4: much whether or not you can afford, on what sort

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Speaker 4: of will, what sort of how you get looked after.

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Speaker 4: And I find that absolutely disgusting because this is where

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Speaker 4: we're going with age care and it is shocking.

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Speaker 1: All right, Damien, thank you for the call, Jackie. Looking

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Speaker 1: for a candidate in each state? Is that the plan? Sorry,

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Speaker 1: a candidate in each state?

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Speaker 4: No, we're only running in New South Wales, Queensland and

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Speaker 4: South Australia. So so we've got them out already. We've

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Speaker 4: got Angie Harprom we've got for Queensland, and then we've

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Speaker 4: got Glenn Colomets, which is and they're also veterans their

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Speaker 4: army though not Navy, and and give them a shot.

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Speaker 4: So Glenn Colomets is a well known lawyer out there,

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Speaker 4: does a lot of work pro bonus stuff for veterans

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Speaker 4: and and you served with the helicopters and stuff like that.

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Speaker 4: She did quite a lot of years in service. So

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Speaker 4: you know, we can only have a shot at it.

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Speaker 4: We're going to go out there and have a go.

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Speaker 1: Is that important to get veterans running? Is that the

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Speaker 1: going on there?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I think for me is that we know how it works.

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Speaker 4: You've got to you know, it's a lot of hard

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Speaker 4: work you've got to put in. We know what our

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Speaker 4: responsibilities are to our states and the nation altogether, and

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Speaker 4: I just think we do have the same values. You know,

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Speaker 4: we know how it works and we know what's expected,

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Speaker 4: and I think that's very helpful and quite frankly, it's

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Speaker 4: like Rex. It's like Rex said, we don't have a

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Speaker 4: big setup on top of the network. So I need

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Speaker 4: people that are straight off those starter blocks. Mate. They're

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Speaker 4: already in so I don't have to. I don't have

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Speaker 4: time to wrap cotton wool around them. And that's what

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Speaker 4: South Australia has with REC. Rex is going to walk

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Speaker 4: in there like you never left and just go bang.

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Speaker 4: And that's where I warn him, you know.

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Speaker 1: All right, Jackie lamby Rex Patrick, thank you for your

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Speaker 1: time this morning. Thanks so much for having election by

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Speaker 1: May next year.