Speaker 1: From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.
Speaker 1: It's Friday, August seven, twenty twenty six. A United States
Speaker 1: military base in Western Australia. The Australians revealing today plans
Speaker 1: are well advanced to stand up a Navy presence of
Speaker 1: two than three hundred American personnel to support the aucas
Speaker 1: nuclear submarine deal. Ben Packham has the exclusive right now
Speaker 1: at the Australian dot com dot au. More than fifty
Speaker 1: four thousand people who are not citizens of Australia have
Speaker 1: used the federal government's five percent housing deposit scheme. Permanent
Speaker 1: residents are eligible for the scheme, designed to support first
Speaker 1: home buyers into property even if they own houses overseas,
Speaker 1: Emotions are running high at the Bondai Beach Massacre Royal Commission,
Speaker 1: with accusations of grand standing and the pursuit of clickbait,
Speaker 1: and even the commissioners getting fired up today how one
Speaker 1: Jewish leader found himself being cross examined about the actions
Speaker 1: of Israel at a forum many thought would be about
Speaker 1: easing tensions rather than inflaming them. Our reporter Bimini Plessa
Speaker 1: is here in just a moment It's nearly three years
Speaker 1: since the October nine, twenty twenty three protest on the
Speaker 1: steps of the Opera House, but the anger is still reverberating, not.
Speaker 2: Reality, because you had protesters proudly screaming if the Jews
Speaker 2: where the Jews. One individual screamed out, I'm going to
Speaker 2: kill them all. There were flares being thrown at the police,
Speaker 2: there were flags being burnt. It was a scene of
Speaker 2: international disgrace and infamy. It's amongst the clearest examples of
Speaker 2: anti Symberism we've seen over the past few years.
Speaker 1: David Ossip is a thirty four year old lawyer and
Speaker 1: former local politician who works at an energy company. He's
Speaker 1: recently got married and welcomed a first baby, and for
Speaker 1: the past four years he's been president of the Jewish
Speaker 1: Board of Deputies, an umbrella body with representatives elected by
Speaker 1: Jewish hospitals, schools, synagogues and community organizations. That's made Ossip
Speaker 1: one of the Australian Jewish community's most visible public faces,
Speaker 1: and this week he found himself being cross examined about
Speaker 1: the actions of the State of Israel.
Speaker 3: You understood, didn't you, and you appreciated the Palestinian Australians
Speaker 3: were likewise filled with deep fear with respect to what
Speaker 3: the future held for those in the occupied territory.
Speaker 2: Look, I'm not the best place to opine on what
Speaker 2: Palistinian Australians were feelings.
Speaker 1: Definitely, this exchange is from the Royal Commission into Anti
Speaker 1: Semitism and Social Cohesion, and covering the story is our
Speaker 1: reporter Bivini Plessa.
Speaker 4: When protesters decided to rally on that October nine, when
Speaker 4: the Opera House was to be let up in the
Speaker 4: colors of the Israeli flag, the Jewish community was rattled.
Speaker 4: They were upset. And then when language like fuck the
Speaker 4: Jews was heard at that protest and Israeli flags were burned,
Speaker 4: he said that was almost salt in the wound, or
Speaker 4: that it stole the chance for the local community to
Speaker 4: go to the Opera House and see those colors and
Speaker 4: mourn those lost in the attack.
Speaker 1: Also was in the witness box to give evidence about
Speaker 1: public protests and police responses.
Speaker 4: Tuesday was a little bit different because David also wasn't
Speaker 4: necessarily talking about his personal experience or the general concept
Speaker 4: of anti Semitism, and because it was about these protests
Speaker 4: and specific groups namely Palestine Action Group and the Australian
Speaker 4: Palestine Advocacy Network. They were in the limelight per se,
Speaker 4: and so their lawyers were given leave to cross examine
Speaker 4: David Ossip, and so they were able to ask him
Speaker 4: about all the evidence he'd submitted and the qualms he
Speaker 4: had with those protests.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was Dominic Toomey sc, the lawyer for the
Speaker 1: Palestine Action Group, that's the group that's been organizing the
Speaker 1: big city protests that have been going on really since
Speaker 1: October seven. And then Ragni matur sc she's the lawyer
Speaker 1: for the Australian Palestine Advocacy Network, an associated about different group,
Speaker 1: and they've been given leave by the Royal Commissioner to
Speaker 1: cross examine David Ossip on two parts of his statement.
Speaker 1: Why what about those parts? Were controversial parts of it
Speaker 1: that were specifically discussed in that cross examination were David
Speaker 1: Ossip asserted that the.
Speaker 4: Protest at the Opera House on October nine was planned
Speaker 4: to go ahead before Israel ever launched a a response
Speaker 4: to the October seven attack, and so that was definitely
Speaker 4: put to him in that hearing. In that cross examination,
Speaker 4: he definitely doubled down on that assertion. But As those
Speaker 4: questions were being put to him, he was asked about
Speaker 4: certain air strikes that the IDF supposedly launched against Gaza,
Speaker 4: and he sort of stopped the questioning and said, I
Speaker 4: don't really understand why on a day when we're focusing
Speaker 4: on anti Semitism in Australia and protests that impacted Sydney's
Speaker 4: Jewish community, why are we getting caught up, in his words,
Speaker 4: the minutia of a foreign military's actions.
Speaker 1: This goes right to the heart of this very hot
Speaker 1: debate that's been going on between advocates for the Palestinian
Speaker 1: community and for the Jewish community in Sydney, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: This is the issue.
Speaker 4: Why was a.
Speaker 1: Protest held at the Opera House where there were chants
Speaker 1: alligedly of where's the Jews? Or fuck the Jews or
Speaker 1: maybe even guess the Jews? When Israel hadn't done anything
Speaker 1: that David Ossop's point, Israel had not yet responded.
Speaker 5: I want to suggest to you that you have seen
Speaker 5: nothing that has emanated from the organizers of the rally,
Speaker 5: namely the Palestine Action Group, which would suggest in any
Speaker 5: way that the rally was being convened to celebrate those
Speaker 5: despicable attacks.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately for the organizers. When you hold an event, you're
Speaker 2: responsible for what takes place at that event.
Speaker 1: Roima Tour took him to statements that had been made
Speaker 1: by the IDF, by the Government of Israel, by Benjamin
Speaker 1: Etnia who in which it was clear that they were
Speaker 1: going to launch offensive action against Gaza, even that power
Speaker 1: and water supplies had been cut off to the Gaza strip.
Speaker 3: The following day he declared war. And it's that statement,
Speaker 3: mister Ossit do you agree that it does not align
Speaker 3: with your assertion in paragraph.
Speaker 2: If no, I stand by my assertion completely. As I've
Speaker 2: told you before.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a legitimate field for debate. What
Speaker 1: was Israel going to do? Was it legitimate for Palestinian
Speaker 1: people or their supporters to be angry or upset about that?
Speaker 1: The issue is was it okay for this to be
Speaker 1: happening at the Royal Commission? Right?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, So David Ossip's real qualm and what other
Speaker 4: Jewish leaders have since chimed in on is this whole
Speaker 4: hearing block. It was one day. There was one day
Speaker 4: dedicated to protests and their impact on the local Jewish community.
Speaker 4: And so David Ossip and others were pretty frustrated that
Speaker 4: on that hearing, on that day, the focus was trying
Speaker 4: to be shifted towards Israeli military conduct.
Speaker 1: This exchange between Alsuper and Mature quickly made its way
Speaker 1: to social media, and Alex Riftin, the co Chief Executive
Speaker 1: of the Executive Council of Australian Jury, spoke to you
Speaker 1: about it. What did he say?
Speaker 4: He basically said that he was appalled at the lawyer's
Speaker 4: line of questioning. He felt like the Jewish community was
Speaker 4: given a chance to discuss why they were upset to
Speaker 4: see those protests happen here and how it affected them here,
Speaker 4: and so he took it far enough to say that
Speaker 4: the lawyers shouldn't have been questioning David Ossip, but the
Speaker 4: protesters should have been the one being probed on why
Speaker 4: they did hold those protests.
Speaker 1: Then and then Virginia Bill fired back the next days.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So Wednesday mornings hearing after opening statements went pretty quickly,
Speaker 4: Virginia Bell stopped the hearing and said that she disagreed
Speaker 4: because Alex's words were that the hearing was hijacked and
Speaker 4: the focus was steered away. Virginia Bell said it was
Speaker 4: not hijacked. And the line of questioning was fair enough
Speaker 4: because it was pointing to factual parts of mister Ossip's statement.
Speaker 1: He's David also being cross examined by Dominic Toomey sc
Speaker 1: Council for the Palestine Action.
Speaker 5: Group, addressing assertions that you have had and asking you
Speaker 5: whether you are aware of contrary fact that is that, indeed,
Speaker 5: on the seventh of October, air strikes had been commenced
Speaker 5: by the Israel Defense Force on the Gaza Street.
Speaker 2: I think I'm happy to address that again, but I
Speaker 2: think this line of questioning is very instructive.
Speaker 6: Mister Ossip. If the line of questioning falls outside matters
Speaker 6: that are properly before me, I will rule the question inadmissible.
Speaker 6: I have not made that.
Speaker 2: Rule absolute Comissioner. I fully respect that.
Speaker 1: David Alsop is a tough guy. I mean, he is
Speaker 1: out there in the public domain all the time, putting
Speaker 1: his point of view very forcefully. He's clearly someone who
Speaker 1: can hold his own in and debate. He held his
Speaker 1: own in the cross examination right, although there were objections
Speaker 1: from some of the other lawyers. Do you think he
Speaker 1: needed to be defended by Alex and needed to have
Speaker 1: it turn into a dispute with the commissioner.
Speaker 4: That's a fair question. I think it was clear in
Speaker 4: the hearing that he was pretty solid. You know, he
Speaker 4: didn't seem rattled by the questions he was there were
Speaker 4: being put to him. He did have things to say
Speaker 4: about them and question their relevance, but he seemed pretty
Speaker 4: sure of himself and his answers. I think the reason
Speaker 4: that someone like Alex and also the father of Matilda Bee,
Speaker 4: the ten year old girl who was killed at Bondai,
Speaker 4: he also chimed in with very similar frustrations about that
Speaker 4: focus being redirected. I think those came in from a
Speaker 4: place of being representatives of a Jewish community who lost people,
Speaker 4: and seeing a hearing that they felt was a chance
Speaker 4: to probe the social fracturing that led to that sort
Speaker 4: of conflict or that incident in December, they felt frustrated
Speaker 4: and aggrieved almost that the limelight was taken away there
Speaker 4: or attempted to be. And so I don't necessarily think
Speaker 4: someone like Alex was chiming in to defend David Ossip,
Speaker 4: but more so as a representative of a community that
Speaker 4: felt like the focus was shifted away on a day
Speaker 4: when it should have been here.
Speaker 1: It's called the Royal Commission into Anti Semitism and Social
Speaker 1: Cohesion in that order, I think there are some people
Speaker 1: in the community who would prefer it to be focusing
Speaker 1: also on Islamophobia and discrimination against Muslim people, or maybe
Speaker 1: on the conflict more generally. The Jewish community, by and large,
Speaker 1: I think regards as a bit of a truth telling process, though.
Speaker 4: Don't they on that islamophobia point. When Virginia Bell stopped
Speaker 4: the hearing on Wednesday to discuss this, she pointed out
Speaker 4: that the Council for Apan running Mature had been hit
Speaker 4: with a barrage of emails in the less than twenty
Speaker 4: four hours since that hearing until Wednesday that were, in
Speaker 4: her words, like vile, abusive, islamophobic language. And she really
Speaker 4: did make a point to say, in the same way
Speaker 4: that people like David Ossop who get up and discuss
Speaker 4: how anti Semitism has impacted Jewish community, no one who
Speaker 4: is Muslim or even representing a group that might be
Speaker 4: affiliated with Muslim people should be targeted by Islamophobia. So
Speaker 4: that has been touched on in the commission.
Speaker 6: It doesn't reflect well on those who make either anti
Speaker 6: Semitic or islamophobic attacks on the interests that they seek
Speaker 6: to promote. I'll say no more about that.
Speaker 1: The hearings have been now going for three months and
Speaker 1: the point of a Royal Commission is to deliver a
Speaker 1: report and some recommendations to the government. But really I
Speaker 1: think the point of a Royal Commission is the public hearings.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is where Virginia Bell can make her impact.
Speaker 1: I know they're being very closely watched around Australia, getting
Speaker 1: great numbers I think for the Royal Commission on their website.
Speaker 1: But it's an important debate to be having. Where is
Speaker 1: it going now?
Speaker 4: In the past few months, we've heard a lot about
Speaker 4: the impact of anti Semitism, but recently we've turned our
Speaker 4: focus towards what's driving those attitudes and extremism generally. So
Speaker 4: Sarah Meger from the University of Melbourne spoke on Thursday
Speaker 4: about how deeply ingrained misogyny is in a lot of
Speaker 4: variations of hate, including anti Semitism.
Speaker 1: That's interesting, isn't it. We hear a lot about Andrew
Speaker 1: Tait and kind of the manisphere, but I've never heard
Speaker 1: it linked directly to anti Semitism.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was interesting because she did in her testimony
Speaker 4: touch on the fact that students in schools have been
Speaker 4: known to be influenced by figures like Andrew Tate. She
Speaker 4: even mentioned instances of teen boys making rape jokes on campus.
Speaker 4: But what was interesting was the way she said misogyny
Speaker 4: is identifiable in almost every kind of hate that researchers
Speaker 4: see coming up in Australia. She also said negative attitudes
Speaker 4: or violent attitudes towards women were kind of key indicators
Speaker 4: that a young individual might have violent tendencies or might
Speaker 4: be prone to finding an interest in extremist ideologies in Australia.
Speaker 1: One very masculine movement is the neo Nazis in Australia.
Speaker 1: They did a very memorable protest out of the front
Speaker 1: of New Southalest Parliament late in twenty twenty five. That
Speaker 1: was when a whole bank of them stood in black
Speaker 1: clothing holding up a sign saying abolish the Jewish Lobby.
Speaker 1: The government was clearly shocked and kind of scrambled to
Speaker 1: change the law after that. What have we heard about
Speaker 1: that protest?
Speaker 4: So that protest did form part of Tuesday's hearing when
Speaker 4: we were looking into protests generally. A representative from New
Speaker 4: South Wales Police said that the higher ups simply did
Speaker 4: not know the protest was coming. So even though there
Speaker 4: was a Form one submission from the White Australia Group,
Speaker 4: which is quite notorious, that literally said that these sixty
Speaker 4: men were going to hold a banner saying abolish the
Speaker 4: Jewish Lobby, that wasn't mentioned to senior police or the
Speaker 4: state government. So it wasn't until the few hours less
Speaker 4: than twenty four hours before that protest that key figures
Speaker 4: in the state government and the police actually knew it
Speaker 4: was coming.
Speaker 1: That protest left a lot of Jewish people feeling afraid
Speaker 1: and shocked, especially as you know you mentioned the Form
Speaker 1: one in New South Wales, like in most lial democracies,
Speaker 1: the police's job is to approve and then manage protests.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so even though the police, these people do have
Speaker 4: a right to protest, so the police just have to
Speaker 4: manage that safely. But what the Commission heard on Tuesday
Speaker 4: is that there was an intention to inform the Jewish
Speaker 4: community that this protest was coming, that these things might
Speaker 4: be said that they may want to steer clear or
Speaker 4: at least just have a heads up, But due to
Speaker 4: a breakdown in communication, that notification never happened. So community
Speaker 4: representatives were not told and Jewish people were really caught
Speaker 4: off guard by such an extreme protest directed pretty clearly
Speaker 4: at them.
Speaker 1: Well, Ber, thank you very much.
Speaker 4: Thanks having me.
Speaker 1: Buni Plesa is a reporter with The Australian. You can
Speaker 1: check out our coverage of the Royal Commission live at
Speaker 1: the Australian dot com dot a u