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Speaker 1: This podcast is recorded on gadigal Land, Always Was, Always

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Speaker 1: Will be Aboriginal Land.

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Speaker 2: Today's episode with Lucinda Price discusses her book All I

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Speaker 2: Ever Wanted Was to Be Hot and topics including disordered eating,

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Speaker 2: body image, and mental health. If this episode may be

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Speaker 2: potentially distressing to you, please skip this one and take

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Speaker 2: care of yourself. If you're struggling, please reach out for help.

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Speaker 2: We've popped some free resources to access in the description

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Speaker 2: of today's episode. We love you chicks and let's get

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Speaker 2: into it. Hey cheeks, I'm Zal and I'm ow And

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Speaker 2: this is two Broke Chicks, the show that shares life

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Speaker 2: lessons and tips.

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Speaker 1: To help make you a rich in life.

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Speaker 2: And today we are joined by writer, comedian ceo and

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Speaker 2: now author of a published book, Loose Enter Price, I

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Speaker 2: gay for Room.

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Speaker 3: Hello Sal, Hello, I'll Holly. Guys, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: We're going to be chatting all about your brand new book,

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Speaker 2: All They Ever Wanted Was to Be Hot, which drops

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Speaker 2: this week at the time of recording, and we are

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Speaker 2: so excited. We both read it, we both love it.

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Speaker 2: But before we get into it, we like to start

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Speaker 2: with a life lesson of the week. I'll kick us off.

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Speaker 2: My life lesson of the week isn't really a life lesson.

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Speaker 2: It's just something that I like noticed over the weekend.

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Speaker 2: But I've also been noticing on TikTok, especially over the

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Speaker 2: last few weeks. So at the time of recording, it

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Speaker 2: was Father's Day on the weekend, and a lot of

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Speaker 2: people are posting like hot photos of their dads, like

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Speaker 2: their dads when they were young, like in the nineties.

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Speaker 2: And then there was also that trend on TikTok of

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Speaker 2: people being like my dad used to say he was

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Speaker 2: a heartbreaker, and then they show like a montage of

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Speaker 2: all of these hot photos of their dads, And I

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Speaker 2: just wanted to open up the conversation how do we

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Speaker 2: feel about it, because I have conflicted feelings about the

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Speaker 2: hot dad movement.

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Speaker 4: Well, I always found it weird, Like years go, I

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Speaker 4: posted on my on my Instagram people always post for

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Speaker 4: as their parents when they're hot, like he's a foot

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Speaker 4: of my parents when they were like not looking hot,

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Speaker 4: like mom's like smoking a darry and like, oh like this,

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Speaker 4: and then Dad's got a condom on his head. I'm like,

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Speaker 4: let's not wise showing your parents when they look not

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Speaker 4: the hottest ever. Look you know what I mean, because

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Speaker 4: I do find it. There's some weird like I don't

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Speaker 4: know if it's Freudian thing going on there, but it's like,

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Speaker 4: we saw what you're doing.

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Speaker 1: I'm neither four Again, it's difficult terrain for you to navigate.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what lesson I drew from that, but

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Speaker 2: I had feelings about it.

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Speaker 3: Clearly, I don't know it's a safe space.

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Speaker 1: I'm so torn.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I can unpack this in therapy.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Like if you find your parents hot, is that weird?

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Speaker 2: She's like, uh clear my three class.

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Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, anyway, lesson of the week is I'm

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Speaker 5: not going to send anyone into a downward spiral of

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Speaker 5: con blading life.

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Speaker 3: So no, I like it.

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Speaker 1: It's good.

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Speaker 3: I do give it up.

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Speaker 1: But I haven't infected wisdom.

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Speaker 5: Tooth and it's a lot for me to go through.

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Speaker 5: It's been very upsetting.

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Speaker 1: I am also the biggest hypochondriac.

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Speaker 5: But the whole weekend friends were going out or like

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Speaker 5: messaging me, and I like couldn't go. But the whole

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Speaker 5: weekend I think I had like three friends message.

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Speaker 1: And check in and say how are you feeling?

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Speaker 5: Let me know if you need anything. And then when

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Speaker 5: they all went out, they sent me messages and they

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Speaker 5: were like like hippo gee, I hope you're feeling better.

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Speaker 3: We miss you.

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Speaker 5: And it just made me really think about how like

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Speaker 5: those are just the friends that you should have, Like

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Speaker 5: if you know you don't want to go to something,

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Speaker 5: or you can't go to something, or you're not feeling well,

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Speaker 5: the friends that check in and they make you feel

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Speaker 5: like miss that.

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Speaker 3: Like, I think you.

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Speaker 1: Need to find friends like that.

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Speaker 5: That is like the top tier standard of Like I

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Speaker 5: don't expect friends to check in every weekend and be

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Speaker 5: like babying me. And I don't think that's like a

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Speaker 5: standard to set because you know, everyone has their own

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Speaker 5: lives and it's really busy. But I just think like

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Speaker 5: that was a moment that I was like, ah, I

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Speaker 5: love my friends.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that's nice.

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Speaker 2: I think either like try and find friends like that,

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Speaker 2: or it's a nice reminder to like do that for you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's the other thing that I was going

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Speaker 1: to say to do that more. Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 3: Getting Earnest on the pod about it's kind of like

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Speaker 3: related to the Instagram dad thing.

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Speaker 4: Do you guys know that meme, which is like they

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Speaker 4: don't they know you're pretty, they just don't want you.

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Speaker 3: Guys seen that?

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Speaker 4: Okay, so you know when you like someone and you

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Speaker 4: start posting thirsty stuff on your story to get their attention.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like they know you're pretty, they just don't

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Speaker 3: want you. Like we need to hear that.

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Speaker 1: That hurt my feeling. Yeah, that's actually such a good

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Speaker 1: reminder though.

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Speaker 3: It's like nobody, like, you don't have to be posting

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Speaker 3: the thirsty things. They know what you look like. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: they just don't want you, and that's fine.

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Speaker 1: That is free. Yeah, I do like it's at first.

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Speaker 2: It's a bit like AWI, but I'm like, do you

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Speaker 2: know it hurts more than like that little gut punch

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Speaker 2: we just got hearing that is like searching through your

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Speaker 2: story like looking for the person and seeing that they

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Speaker 2: either haven't seen it because you're clearly not even popping

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Speaker 2: up in a high priority splot on the out, or

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Speaker 2: they've seen it and they just haven't even reacted to it.

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Speaker 2: Like that hurts more so like posts the thirsty or

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Speaker 2: like sexy selfie but for yourself? Yeah, or do you

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Speaker 2: know who are the real like MVPs when it comes

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Speaker 2: to that your girlfriends like, they're the ones who helped

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Speaker 2: you pick which photo.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I will react to it. Yeah, I love it.

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Speaker 1: Pose it for yourself and for them. Love that. Okay,

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Speaker 1: shall we get into the EP.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let's go.

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Speaker 2: It's a very exciting week because your debut book, All

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Speaker 2: I Ever Wanted Was to Be Hot, dropped on the

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Speaker 2: third of September. And for the chicks who haven't come

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Speaker 2: across it yet, can you give us a little rundown

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Speaker 2: of what we can expect?

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Speaker 4: So All I Ever Wanted Was to Be Hot is

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Speaker 4: part personal experience, part I guess investigation of the early

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Speaker 4: two thousands and the time that we grew up in.

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Speaker 4: And I use my personal experience as like the launching

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Speaker 4: pad to then put context around it. So it's kind

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Speaker 4: of like the seed of it. And then we've built

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Speaker 4: context around it through looking at Victoria's Secret Angels, the

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Speaker 4: Playboy Bunnies, things we were taught in school. I look

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Speaker 4: a lot into nostalgia and the shows that we grew

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Speaker 4: up watching, and which was really fun to do because

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Speaker 4: I was like, oh, I love these things as a kid.

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Speaker 4: Oh now let's look at it from this lens. Oh,

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Speaker 4: that's interesting because I can see how I it's like,

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Speaker 4: this is kind of off topic. But sometimes I go

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Speaker 4: back and watch Austin Powers and I'm like, oh my god,

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Speaker 4: I've jacked my whole like style style of comedy.

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Speaker 3: Things I find funny things I say, all.

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Speaker 4: From this show, Like that really imprints on you the

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Speaker 4: things that you watch early on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like that's my whole personality and that's us with

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Speaker 2: the granch.

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Speaker 3: Yeah really help, Oh the chicks all that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true, we are here, see what I mean?

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Speaker 1: What was the process like writing it for you then?

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Speaker 2: Because you do have a journalism background and that shows

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Speaker 2: by you know, how beautiful you write, but also the

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Speaker 2: level of research and investigation and.

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Speaker 3: The interviews that you do.

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Speaker 2: But what was it like, I suppose reliving some of

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Speaker 2: those more vulnerable moments and dissecting those as well.

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Speaker 4: Well. I read you guys' book and I felt the

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Speaker 4: same about the journalists thing. I'm like, oh, okay, you

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Speaker 4: can really tell, Like it is funny how you can't tell.

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Speaker 4: I guess when you've done commons degree giving a debt.

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Speaker 3: Yeah see, I loved your book as well. Thank you.

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Speaker 3: It's like a warm hug, thank you.

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Speaker 4: The process well, like anything that felt nothing was really

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Speaker 4: like too rough for me. I don't think it was

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Speaker 4: just more exciting because I'd already gone through I talk

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Speaker 4: about having an eating disorder in the book, and to

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Speaker 4: have gone through that, I'd already done kind of like

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Speaker 4: a lot of the facing the hard parts of it

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Speaker 4: because a lot of it is reflecting and then having

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Speaker 4: to rejig the way you look at things. Kind of

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Speaker 4: done that whole process. So looking back, it wasn't that difficult.

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Speaker 4: I guess there's like other things that I wrote about

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Speaker 4: in the books that were a bit more difficult because

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Speaker 4: I'd never put them into words, Like there's things that

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Speaker 4: surprise you. You're like, oh, I didn't think I would

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Speaker 4: feel like a certain way about that, but I feel

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Speaker 4: I feel a certain way about that. And then it's

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Speaker 4: funny having people, like doing interviews or speaking to people

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Speaker 4: about the book. The things that they pick out as

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Speaker 4: what would have been hard isn't hard, But the things

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Speaker 4: that they just think was normal. I was like, oh, Colin,

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Speaker 4: you're not asking about that thing that felt really vulnerable

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Speaker 4: and that I didn't want to keep in there, but

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Speaker 4: I kept in there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I think it's interesting because even reading it. It is

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Speaker 5: like a self reflective book to read, Like when you're

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Speaker 5: reading it as yourself, it's you can you know, feel

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Speaker 5: you you can feel like as if you were literally

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Speaker 5: a person inside this book talking to me as the reader,

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Speaker 5: which is amazing because it feels like such a safe place,

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Speaker 5: but it's also exactly what you're saying that when you're

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Speaker 5: reading it, you can you can feel yourself thinking about

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Speaker 5: how it applies to yourself and the things.

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Speaker 1: That you've been through.

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Speaker 5: One of my favorite things was that the title wasn't

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Speaker 5: actually going to be the title, No.

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Speaker 3: Not at all.

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Speaker 4: It's yeah, it was gonna be perfect candidate, which I'm

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Speaker 4: just like, I don't even know how to say candidate

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Speaker 4: properly far out like, thank Heaven's I dodged that bullet

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Speaker 4: because it would be a completely different, Like I'm always

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Speaker 4: also thinking about the kind of press that I'm doing for,

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Speaker 4: it would be completely different at least with the title.

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Speaker 3: Now you kind of know what you're getting. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I came up with that title because when I was

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Speaker 4: probably like halfway through writing the book, I was like, Fuck,

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Speaker 4: there's this thing that I keep coming back to, which

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Speaker 4: is that actually all I ever wanted was to be hot.

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Speaker 4: And I've thought that for a long time, and it

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Speaker 4: wasn't until kind of like this age that I thought

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Speaker 4: maybe that is weird or it's something that it always

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Speaker 4: felt like, Oh, that sounds really like depraved and vain

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Speaker 4: and like kind of fucked up. But then I'm like, wait,

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Speaker 4: everything that we do is kind of about that, Like

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Speaker 4: why are we on Instagram guys? Because we want to

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Speaker 4: be fucking hot?

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Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I don't know. I just found it.

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Speaker 4: It was free and doing that title because I think,

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Speaker 4: on the one hand, I instantly feel worried that people

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Speaker 4: are going to.

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Speaker 3: Think I'm really vain, but then it's kind of like.

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Speaker 4: The unspoken thing that a lot of people feel that way,

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Speaker 4: and just the statistics show that I'm not alone. So

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Speaker 4: I put my hand up and say, all ever wanted

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Speaker 4: just to be hot?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? For sure?

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Speaker 2: And I think the first chapter really talks about that

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Speaker 2: and like one of your earliest experiences learning that hotness

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Speaker 2: is a source of power, especially for women, And then

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Speaker 2: the end of the book you tie that in again

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Speaker 2: and I guess your relationship with that concept now, So

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Speaker 2: what is your relationship with that power dynamic? And what

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Speaker 2: are some sources of power that you pull from now

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Speaker 2: instead of being hot.

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Speaker 4: I guess the way that I look at it when

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Speaker 4: I was younger, is it I definitely felt like I

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Speaker 4: didn't have access to the spaces that I've always wanted.

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Speaker 4: Now I do like I always wanted to do this

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Speaker 4: job alway, knew exactly what I wanted to do, always

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Speaker 4: wanted to write a book. I just wanted to be

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Speaker 4: a presenter when I was a little girl, like I

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Speaker 4: wanted to be row live.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I can see you hosting what.

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Speaker 3: I would like feel jealous of, Like.

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Speaker 4: Fuck, I so wanted to do your job, like anyway

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Speaker 4: love rope, He's another blueprint. So I think when I

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Speaker 4: was younger, like any kind of like attractiveness that I

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Speaker 4: had that was my calling card, like going to clubs

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Speaker 4: young and like talking to guys, feeling like I could

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Speaker 4: have access to spaces through men, like I think that's

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Speaker 4: and I think so I would definitely like play to

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Speaker 4: a very stereotypical male gaze as a young girl, which

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Speaker 4: I think like a lot of us do. I find

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Speaker 4: it funny now whenever I go to this shopping center

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Speaker 4: and I see little late teeny bopper thirteen year old girls,

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Speaker 4: and I still wear the same things that we wore,

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Speaker 4: which is like the roll down track.

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Speaker 3: He's a little crop top.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there's like a uniform that you initiates you into

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Speaker 4: being like a.

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Speaker 3: Little girl, a little woman girl.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, for many years it was kind of like

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Speaker 4: the I say, it's like what I thought a thirteen

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Speaker 4: year old boy.

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Speaker 3: Would think is a gorgeous woman.

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Speaker 4: Is what I always tried to be, which was quite

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Speaker 4: restrictive at change the way that I would like behave, eat, exercise,

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Speaker 4: do certain like procedures, even all the way down to.

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Speaker 3: Like like laser hair removal.

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Speaker 4: You know, I look back now and I think, oh,

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Speaker 4: did I need to laser every single hair of my body?

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Speaker 4: Not sure, but we've done it now and there's no

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Speaker 4: turning back. So I guess I had this very like homogeneous, homogenized,

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Speaker 4: like one set beauty standard, and if I didn't look

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Speaker 4: good or if I didn't feel good, I wasn't sure

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Speaker 4: where I would get my power from.

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Speaker 3: Whereas now I think, because I.

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Speaker 4: Have a lot of agency with work and agency with

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Speaker 4: my friends, I feel like I've got heaps of friends

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Speaker 4: and the happy job, my happy home life in my apartment,

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Speaker 4: that's less necessary.

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Speaker 3: I still like to feel.

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Speaker 4: Like I look good, like I've put a full beat

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Speaker 4: on today, I've got my little tiny tank top on,

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Speaker 4: and like I still like feeling good and looking good

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Speaker 4: in a very particular way.

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Speaker 3: But it's not everything makes sense.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, the self worth doesn't come from that, not how

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Speaker 5: we look it comes from And that's like that quote.

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Speaker 5: That's like, you know, when you die, people won't say, oh,

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Speaker 5: you know, she had a flat tummy or her hair

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Speaker 5: was really pretty. So they'll say she had a great laugh,

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Speaker 5: or she was always there when you needed her. And

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Speaker 5: it's like that that reminder and that's where your power

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Speaker 5: comes from, which it's really really hard to pull away from,

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Speaker 5: especially for the fact that you know, we live in

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Speaker 5: society and you do.

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Speaker 3: Explore this in the book as well about how.

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Speaker 5: If you know the pretty privilege right, and you know,

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Speaker 5: we then set up in a way that it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 5: well I'm not pretty, so I'll do something about it,

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Speaker 5: whether it's you know, a procedure or dyeing your hair

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Speaker 5: or dressing a certain way. But then it's a secret

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Speaker 5: because you're shamed for it. So like, what is that

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Speaker 5: balance of and how do you feel about that balance

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Speaker 5: of Like Okay, well, you know, I will do this

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Speaker 5: so that I'm pretty, but then I can't tell anyone

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Speaker 5: because I'm shamed for it, and it's like a lose

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Speaker 5: lose battle.

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Speaker 3: Exhaustingly, Yeah, you feel like a fraud, I.

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Speaker 4: Think, yeah, yeah, that's That's probably what I found hardest

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Speaker 4: to write about in the book is anything to do

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Speaker 4: with plastic surgery, because I felt that shame and I

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Speaker 4: felt like I didn't want anyone to know what I

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Speaker 4: looked like before, like from the age of eleven onwards.

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Speaker 4: I couldn't like share any baby photos, but like on

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Speaker 4: Instagram and stuff, I put a photo of me when

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Speaker 4: I'm five because the little nose is like yeah, but

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Speaker 4: so yeah, there's a lot of kind of like and

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Speaker 4: I still get emotion, like not emotional, but I still

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Speaker 4: get a bit affected now and people say, oh, can

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Speaker 4: I see a nose before? I'm like, well, I'm still

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Speaker 4: that girl inside, so I don't want you to see

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Speaker 4: it and say, oh, yeah, fuck, that was pretty bad

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Speaker 4: or you know, it wasn't even bad. It's not really

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Speaker 4: like your decision to tell me that.

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Speaker 1: There's just nothing productive that comes from that.

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Speaker 4: Really exactly exactly, and get I get the curiosity. People

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Speaker 4: always love her before and after. There's a whole industry

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Speaker 4: built on it. But yeah, that still affects me. So

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Speaker 4: I think, to your point, like there's a little bit

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Speaker 4: inside you that feels I still feel ashamed of it,

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Speaker 4: and I still feel shameed that like I am naturally

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Speaker 4: don't look the way that I look now, hmm.

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Speaker 5: But like that's the thing that I hate as well.

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Speaker 5: But it's also very very normal and very relatable because

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Speaker 5: it's like it's like you are, you know, you've got

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Speaker 5: this power and you've got this.

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Speaker 1: Pretty privilege if you're hot, but you're not.

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Speaker 3: Supposed to want to be hot.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, fully, you're not supposed to allow like you don't

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Speaker 5: want to be hot, you just have to be hot,

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Speaker 5: But if you do anything about it, then that's cheating

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Speaker 5: and it doesn't count.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is like it's a fine line, and

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Speaker 2: I guess like reconciling with that and like the shame

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Speaker 2: and whatnot that we feel around it, it's just like

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Speaker 2: I don't know what the answer is, and I don't

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Speaker 2: think any of us have the answer, but I think

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Speaker 2: even just talking about it is hopefully helpful for people

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Speaker 2: out there to like, you know, feel less shame around

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Speaker 2: it and know that it's like a really normal thing

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Speaker 2: to feel conflicted.

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Speaker 3: About these things.

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Speaker 2: And throughout the book, as you mentioned, you do talk

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Speaker 2: a lot about you know, like societal pressures on how

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Speaker 2: we look, but then also like how the role of

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Speaker 2: genetics can play into it, or even you know, like

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Speaker 2: nature verse nurture, like how we're brought up like shout out.

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Speaker 3: To the armor mum chapter and all of that.

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Speaker 2: But then you also talk about how these things and

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Speaker 2: our relationship with these things can be changed or unlearned.

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Speaker 2: So what is something that people can do after listening

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Speaker 2: to this episode or after reading your book to unlearn

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Speaker 2: even one of these things?

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Speaker 4: Yes, I love this is what I love about your podcast.

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Speaker 4: Hey takeaways?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we need the hat.

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Speaker 3: The Instagram is popping definitely, even in the last year. I've

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Speaker 3: just seen the girls. The girlies are on one. That

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Speaker 3: means every time you come from my feet, actually like

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Speaker 3: I learned something and I like it. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: That's really ned. I'm proud to know you.

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Speaker 1: Really impressive right back at you.

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Speaker 4: Well, So my action will takeaway would be, if I

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Speaker 4: could be so bold to suggest one would be that

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Speaker 4: what I found when I was recovering from an eating

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Speaker 4: disorder and my body was changing rapidly and I completely

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Speaker 4: changed the way that my body looked was following women

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Speaker 4: with the same body shape as me. That sounds like

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Speaker 4: we've heard it all before, we've heard like d like

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Speaker 4: whatever the figh your feed, but it fully makes a difference,

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Speaker 4: like having someone who was like wearing cool clothes and

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Speaker 4: being confident. And for me, you know, the people that

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Speaker 4: I followed, they still looked kind of like sexy, like

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Speaker 4: they still had sex appeal, which I needed to see.

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Speaker 4: You know, the book is about you shouldn't have to

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Speaker 4: look a certain way to like be I guess, like

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Speaker 4: liberated and make your decisions and date and do all

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Speaker 4: this stuff. But when you had when I placed so

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Speaker 4: much emphasis on myself looking a certain way and feeling

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Speaker 4: like I was only desirable a certain way, when I

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Speaker 4: came out of that scene, that you can still be

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Speaker 4: desirable at all different shapes and sizes and it is

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Speaker 4: about your like funkiness, I say, me and my friend

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Speaker 4: call it funkiness, like it's about you like spunk and

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Speaker 4: like yeah, charisma, it goes a long way. I will say,

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Speaker 4: it's easier and I look at this in the book,

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Speaker 4: like it is easier for men to not be conventionally

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Speaker 4: attractive and to still have that spunk.

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Speaker 3: That's what where we expect.

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Speaker 5: Well, that's like the rat boy frog boy like that,

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Speaker 5: or how like ugly hot is for men.

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Speaker 3: It must be nice, Yeah, it would be good.

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Speaker 4: But diversifying the people that you follow and finding people

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Speaker 4: who the other thing is like the mid sized influencers

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Speaker 4: like that or wasn't a thing when we were like

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Speaker 4: teenage girls. But now I look at it and I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: like you actually can wear like a little miniskirt or

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Speaker 4: this or that.

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Speaker 2: I do think that that is a good It is

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Speaker 2: a good tip to follow people who look like you

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Speaker 2: or just don't look like the stereotypical standard of beauty

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Speaker 2: and seeing how they style things or and you know,

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Speaker 2: I also think they don't have to be like, you know,

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Speaker 2: waving a flag of like body positivity, or they don't

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Speaker 2: have to be an advocate, but they just exist.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my powerful bit when they just exist. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: One of the things that I always felt difficult to navigate,

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Speaker 5: and it wasn't necessarily something I was consciously realizing, was

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Speaker 5: when I was following brands, and the brands didn't necessarily

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Speaker 5: ever repost or post with bodies that, you know, any

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Speaker 5: sort of body, but any sort of body diversity or

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Speaker 5: like having a big bust. I was like, I'm and

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Speaker 5: the thing that would go on my head would be, oh,

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Speaker 5: I can never wear that, Like I can never wear that.

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Speaker 5: I can never wear that. And I didn't realize how

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Speaker 5: often that was happening until I like made the realization

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Speaker 5: and started like unfollowing because I was like, all it's

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Speaker 5: doing is acting as a reminder of like what I'm not.

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Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean like you have to like you know, boycott,

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Speaker 1: never shop there or whatever.

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Speaker 5: But if there's something that's coming up as a negative

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Speaker 5: part or something that's telling you you're less then or not,

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Speaker 5: something that's also something to like filter out.

441
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:50,640
Speaker 3: One hundred yeah.

442
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,240
Speaker 5: Ye, So you spoke a lot about the Victorious Secret

443
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,200
Speaker 5: Show and Victoria's Secret Models, which was a throw back.

444
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,320
Speaker 1: I haven't thought about that in a long long time.

445
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,359
Speaker 5: But it was also when we were growing up, Like

446
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,520
Speaker 5: it was like a Christmas thing.

447
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, Like you knew like summer.

448
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,119
Speaker 5: Was coming and it was like Christmas time because the

449
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,640
Speaker 5: Victoria's Secret Show was happening. Ye, the show was canceled

450
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,719
Speaker 5: six years ago and this year it's coming back.

451
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 1: What do you think about that?

452
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 4: Obviously, yeah, I'm not across the fact that it's coming back.

453
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,480
Speaker 4: I'm like, let fenty have its time, like fenty is

454
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 4: where it's at. I remember seeing my first fenty show

455
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,439
Speaker 4: on the TV and being like, wow, like this is

456
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 4: how I should have felt watching a lingerie show like

457
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,960
Speaker 4: it made me want to go and buy every single underwear,

458
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 4: like because I had complete body diversity, gender diversity, people

459
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 4: were pregnant, like they had everything and kind of like

460
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 4: what we were saying about seeing the same lingerie and

461
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 4: all different bodies, It's like, oh, okay, now I can wear that.

462
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 4: So I think something like that should continue because that

463
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,639
Speaker 4: was very It didn't feel like that had any gaze on.

464
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 4: It felt like it was through the lens of like

465
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,439
Speaker 4: dance and like all this stuff that's ephemeral and like

466
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 4: not so much. You look good, you look don't you

467
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 4: don't look good? So, yeah, Victoria's Secret coming back. I'm like,

468
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 4: I don't know what the audience will be, Like, I

469
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,520
Speaker 4: guess the CEO and stuff would say, you know, this

470
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 4: is a show about fantasy, that's why we don't have

471
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 4: anyone who's not a size XYZ, you know, so and

472
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,919
Speaker 4: then their sales have gone down, so I'd feel like

473
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 4: the ship has sailed with Victoria's secret, to be honest,

474
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,160
Speaker 4: be interesting to see if people get around it.

475
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 3: But it was such a moment in time, and.

476
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 4: It really like, I really think it has a lot

477
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,679
Speaker 4: of blood on its hands, a lot of blood on

478
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,639
Speaker 4: its hands, because all I'd remember doing is going to

479
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,400
Speaker 4: my room afterwards, taking all my clothes off and going.

480
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,440
Speaker 3: Back and forward in the mirror and being like, I'm

481
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 3: not good enough.

482
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 2: All like the articles about how they like, what they

483
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 2: eat and what they do to train, like before the shows,

484
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 2: and like the different messages that were being sent via

485
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 2: that because it either was like they were on a

486
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 2: really restrictive diet or you know, on a juice cleanse

487
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 2: or something for seventy two hours beforehand, or they'd be like, oh,

488
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,400
Speaker 2: like I don't really, I just eat normal.

489
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 1: A whole pizza, and it's like, yeah, fucking.

490
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,159
Speaker 3: Real, Yeah, they kind of can't win.

491
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

492
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,400
Speaker 5: And I think that's also a lot of behind the scenes,

493
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 5: you know, media training and pr messaging that was pushed

494
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 5: on people and it's.

495
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 1: Just I agree.

496
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 5: I think I'm very interested from like a curiosity perspective to.

497
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 1: See what that like, that change is going to be.

498
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: But I agree, I think it's like, just.

499
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 3: Take a step back.

500
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 2: You had your time, yeah, exactly like you had your moment,

501
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 2: you had your time in the sun.

502
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 3: You completely fucked it.

503
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 1: Let's just leave it.

504
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 2: Another thing we wanted to talk about that you do

505
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 2: reference as a movement a few times throughout the book

506
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 2: is body neutrality. And I think a lot of us

507
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 2: heard about body positivity in the last ten years, but

508
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 2: neutrality is something or being body neutral is something that's

509
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 2: a bit more of a newer term or concept. So

510
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 2: we wanted to know, like, what are your thoughts on that,

511
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 2: and whether or not we should be embracing that as well.

512
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 4: Yes, I think we should all be embracing body neutrality

513
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,679
Speaker 4: if that's what we want and that's what makes us

514
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,719
Speaker 4: feel empowered. I know that when I was had an

515
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 4: eating disorder, when I was coming out of that, everything

516
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 4: was about my body. Any comment anyone made was diabolical

517
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 4: to me. I was totally and utterly wrapped up in

518
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 4: my body, both during the eating disorder and also coming

519
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 4: out of it, and so a concept like body neutrality

520
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 4: gave me a lot of license to step out of

521
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,159
Speaker 4: that and to be like, oh no, there is a

522
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 4: whole thing. You know, this is a movement, like this

523
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 4: is something that people practice and it works for them,

524
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 4: which is essentially just like not placing so much emphasis

525
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,199
Speaker 4: on the way you look and rather looking at the

526
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 4: way you feel and not feeling like I think when

527
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 4: body positivity started, it was radical and I think it

528
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 4: was helpful, but like so many things, I guess it

529
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 4: also became a bit of like a so what we're

530
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,159
Speaker 4: meant to love our bodies when society is telling us

531
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 4: to hate them?

532
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 3: Like that's a lot to put on an individual. It

533
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 3: also can feel quite far away, Yes, so far away.

534
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 3: Even body neutrality, I think can feel really far away.

535
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 3: It did for me.

536
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 4: And then I got to body neutrality and I'm like, oh, okay,

537
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 4: this feels really good. I think you can tell that

538
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 4: you're making progress when you start looking at other people

539
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 4: in a neutral way. And know, when I was unwell,

540
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 4: i'd look at all people on the street and have

541
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 4: like really judged them or really compare myself to them,

542
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 4: depending on where they were on the scale. And then

543
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 4: when I kind of started embracing body neutrality, I was like, Ah,

544
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 4: it's actually so nice not judging other people, because when you'

545
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 4: judging other people, it's in reference to yourself always.

546
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I understand.

547
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that ties in quite interestingly to how

548
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 5: you discussed about compliments and the way we not only

549
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 5: talk to ourselves about our looks, but the way that

550
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 5: we talk to other people people about them.

551
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 3: Yeah.

552
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 4: When I first started losing weight, I had a restricted

553
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 4: eating disorder. When I first started losing weight, I didn't

554
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 4: have any weight to lose, not that anyone ever does,

555
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 4: but like it very quickly became obviously a problem. But

556
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 4: I got so many compliments, like people be like, oh

557
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 4: my god, body like fire emoji, like what do you do?

558
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 4: I have behaviors in the office that I worked in,

559
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 4: them were very clearly problematic, Like it was very clear

560
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 4: that I had an eating disorder for anyone who would

561
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 4: have had one. And again the compliments kept coming, like

562
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 4: how do you eat the same thing every day?

563
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 3: Like where do you get your willpower from?

564
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 4: It was all about willpower and me kind of being

565
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 4: holier than they are, and I already felt that way.

566
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 4: So like all these things were confirming it and well

567
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 4: meaning people like people didn't mean to kind of like

568
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 4: no one knew what I was going through internally, but

569
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 4: I noticed as well, even when I go shopping and stuff,

570
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 4: it'd always be because I did, haven't it's unusual to

571
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 4: be underweight to the point where you haven't eating disorder.

572
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 4: I think some people are so tapped themselves that they're thinking, oh, well,

573
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 4: they look good though, because that is the you know,

574
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 4: skinnier and skinnier is better as better as better, because

575
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 4: it is something that is hard to maintain and get. Yeah,

576
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 4: and I know before I had a restrictive being disorder,

577
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 4: before I was very unwell, I kind of looked at

578
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 4: women who were struggling with anorexia and I'd be be like,

579
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 4: oh that that'd bit must be nice, you know, Like

580
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 4: I was, I was still tapped, even though for a

581
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 4: lot it took me a long time to get to

582
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 4: the point where I was one of those women. I'd

583
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 4: totally look at them and be like, oh, no, that

584
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 4: looks like I'd love that. Like maybe I wouldn't go

585
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 4: that far, but like it'd be kind of lit like

586
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 4: having a full on box.

587
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 3: Gap, Like had these real tapped thoughts.

588
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 4: So I think if someone loses weight, I never comment

589
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 4: on it. There's still sometimes like a desire because you

590
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 4: want to be like, oh, like you look different, like

591
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 4: what is it? Or have you changed your hair? Or

592
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 4: do you do this or do that? But yeah, my

593
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 4: idea now is to not comment on anything that people

594
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 4: can't change. So I don't comment on like height or weight,

595
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 4: or you're breast size, your bum size, especially things yeah,

596
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 4: that have some kind of like sexual connotation, because I

597
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 4: found that, like people always comment about my boobs. It's

598
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 4: just a thing, and like so many times it's well

599
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 4: meaning and like no one's trying to like hurt my

600
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 4: feelings because having be boobs isn't necessarily a bad thing.

601
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 3: It's seen as a good thing, right, But.

602
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 4: I found that whenever someone would comment on my boobs,

603
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 4: it'd make it'd pull me out of myself and again

604
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 4: it's taking me out of that body neutrality place where

605
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, I'm in the world and you're perceiving

606
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 4: me that way.

607
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 3: I wasn't even thinking about that today. What else are

608
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 3: you thinking about?

609
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 4: So if you're kind of like a ruminator or an overthinker,

610
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 4: and you'd be around people who are ruminators all overthinkers,

611
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 4: like every little thing affects can affect someone, even hair. Sometimes,

612
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 4: like I wanted to say to you, I really love

613
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 4: your hair because I'm on my hair growth journey, but

614
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 4: I stop myself because I'm like, well, I don't know,

615
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 4: you know, think about this. So maybe you really like

616
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 4: your hair today, but maybe you only feel good when

617
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 4: it looks a certain way, or maybe you had hair

618
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 4: issues before. Like I try to be super sensitive conscious,

619
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 4: but I think it can take people going through something

620
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 4: like a neat disorder to understand how that impacts people.

621
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 3: Because my stil just think, oh, I'm giving me a compliment.

622
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, but you know, I do think, I think, and

623
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 5: I've been trying to do similarly the same thing where

624
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 5: you don't compliment someone on their looks. But whenever I've

625
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 5: really made a conscious choice to compliment someone on something

626
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 5: that was like that was really funny or like I

627
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 5: had so much fun with you today, whatever, it is,

628
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 5: like you see people light up so much more when

629
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 5: you compliment their soul rather than their physical, Like it

630
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 5: is just the way that you see And I think

631
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 5: that is like the best way to maybe teach yourself

632
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 5: out of.

633
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: Doing that because it is a bit of a habit.

634
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: I think a thing to try and like train.

635
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 5: Yourself out of it is to think of the compliment

636
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 5: that's more about the person, Yeah, because it is kind

637
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 5: of hard to not do that, Like it is a

638
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 5: bit of a training thing.

639
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, or think you think about, Yeah, what are the

640
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 4: best compliments you've ever gotten and how they make you feel?

641
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: I love that, Yeah, yeah for sure.

642
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 3: And you know what rings true?

643
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 4: And I think the other thing with looks or even

644
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 4: anything physical is that it changes over time. And so

645
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 4: if you're complimented early on, like oh, wow, you're so beautiful,

646
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 4: You're so beautiful, You're so beautiful, what happens when you

647
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 4: are no longer beautiful in the way that you would

648
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 4: compliment on Like imagine that four from Grace so true?

649
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. I think there was another part.

650
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 2: That I thought was really insightful and also like sometimes

651
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 2: made me feel quite sad at points, was you talk

652
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 2: a lot about how the people in your life who

653
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: love you, like your mum or your friends, and how

654
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 2: they tried to broach the conversation when you were going

655
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 2: through what you were going through, and how it can

656
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 2: be really awkward and people don't know how to ask

657
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 2: like are you okay? Or do it in a way

658
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 2: that's actually helpful and isn't going to offend anybody or

659
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 2: like push somebody away, I think is another thing. So

660
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 2: do you have any advice on anyone who wants to

661
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 2: broach this conversation with a loved one about you know,

662
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 2: their mental health or perhaps their relationship with their body

663
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 2: in a way that is going to be effective And

664
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 2: I know that it's going to be different for everyone.

665
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's such a good question because it's that's probably

666
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,239
Speaker 4: the hardest thing that I Like, I've got friends who

667
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 4: are definitely going through things which I struggle.

668
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 3: To bring up with them, and they're.

669
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 4: In positions that I was before, and I still don't

670
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 4: And even though I've gone through it and they know

671
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 4: they've seen me go through it, I still struggle to

672
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 4: put the words to it and ask them the right questions.

673
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 3: It's really hard. And I remember when I was.

674
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,479
Speaker 4: Unwell, people would reach out to me, Like I had

675
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 4: a friend who I wasn't super close with, but I

676
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 4: had been previously, and I took some video of myself

677
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 4: in the mirror and she was like, are you okay

678
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 4: or something, and it just it just like pissed me

679
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 4: off because the other thing is like my type of

680
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 4: eating disorder, everything would piss me off.

681
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 3: I was angry all the time.

682
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 4: And so you've got to be if you're going to

683
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 4: be the person who's going to say something, you've got

684
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 4: to be.

685
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 3: Prepared to like be bitten.

686
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, but sometimes you do have to take the step

687
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 4: and be the person because eventually when the person comes

688
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 4: out of it, I think they'll see that you had

689
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 4: the best intentions. But I think there are some things

690
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 4: you can do, like Butterfly Foundation and Inside Out Institute

691
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 4: of Being Disorders have good guidelines for this kind of thing.

692
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 4: But going off my gut feeling, I would avoid saying

693
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 4: things like, oh, you look really different or you look

694
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 4: like you've lost a lot of weight, because for someone

695
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 4: who's sick, that can be a real compliment and it

696
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,719
Speaker 4: can just encourage them to go further. And also just

697
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 4: that's often one very particular symptom someone could be going through,

698
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 4: like a binge eating disorder, and you can't you don't

699
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 4: see them on a Sunday because they're at home all day,

700
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 4: you know, engaging the behavior, and.

701
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 3: So it isn't visible.

702
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 4: I guess the thing to focus on is maybe you

703
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 4: haven't really been yourself, like I feel like you're a

704
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 4: bit vacant talking about how they were before verse now

705
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 4: and not guilty of it, being like, oh, I feel

706
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 4: like we haven't laughed in a long time, or like

707
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 4: is there something you want to do that would be

708
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 4: fun for you? Because I think as well, your priorities

709
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 4: can narrow socially when you have an eating disorder, don't

710
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 4: want to go out and eat with people, or struggle

711
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 4: to stay with people for long amounts of time because

712
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 4: you're tired. So I guess asking the questions about themselves,

713
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 4: but also knowing when to back away and not make

714
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 4: them feel targeted. Like there are a few instances in

715
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 4: the book where I talk about how friends would make

716
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 4: comments and they would upset me. They probably shouldn't have

717
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 4: upset me because they were very small. I gave the

718
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 4: book to one of my friends. I went and visited

719
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 4: her recently. She sent me this really beautiful Whatsapped message

720
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 4: after being like, Cindy, like, I didn't know you were

721
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 4: going through this thing. I didn't mean what I said,

722
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 4: like we were really young, Like I didn't know what

723
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 4: to say, and I just felt like being like to her.

724
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 4: I hope I don't read this book and think that

725
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 4: I'm blaming you at all. It's just I'm talking about

726
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 4: the way I thought back then, and I was tapped.

727
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 4: I think it's also like if you're so, if you're

728
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 4: a friend who said something that hasn't gone well with

729
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 4: someone who's going through it, just know as well.

730
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 3: I think they'll come around.

731
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 4: Like me and this friend that's like brought us to

732
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 4: a new level of bonding where I feel bad about

733
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 4: the way I behaved more than she should, and we

734
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 4: now can come together and talk about it. But yeah,

735
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 4: it's definitely hard. I still struggle even though I've gone

736
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 4: through it.

737
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: I think that's really great advice.

738
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 5: So I think that's really helpful of you know, taking

739
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 5: it out of again the physical and making it more

740
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 5: about you know, we haven't laughed in a really long time,

741
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 5: or I really want to spend more time.

742
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: With you and you know, we don't see you as much,

743
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: and making it more about that.

744
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 4: I'd avoid saying we've all been talking about it, make

745
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 4: it so it's yeah.

746
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's hurt form because.

747
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: Let's be real, like everyone feel like we're like we're

748
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 2: worried about you like we've been I've been talking with

749
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 2: so and so and.

750
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: So and so, and we're all worried about you.

751
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 2: I think that kind of group mentality in that situation,

752
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 2: because you already feel.

753
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 5: So isolated, you already feel like everyone's looking at you. Yeah,

754
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 5: so that's like a confirmation of worst fears. Yeah, basically, yeah,

755
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 5: exactly it it's like, all cool, So everyone was looking

756
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 5: at me and thinking bad things about me, and it's

757
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 5: probably going to push someone further away.

758
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

759
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 2: At the end of the book, I think you tie

760
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 2: it all together really beautifully where you bring us back

761
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 2: to where you were as a child, and I think

762
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 2: you know, you point out that many of us are

763
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: our own worst critic and we think of ourselves really,

764
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 2: really harshly, even as young children. And I wanted to

765
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: read out one of my favorite parts in the book,

766
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 2: which is in the final chapter.

767
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 3: So excuse me.

768
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: For quoting yourself at you.

769
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 2: I used to look at the girl I was when

770
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:33,240
Speaker 2: Don'tcha was released and feel embarrassed. The more I challenge

771
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 2: myself and my beliefs as I became an adult, the

772
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 2: more I could look back at this girl and.

773
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: Find her cute.

774
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: I look at her and I want to tell her

775
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 2: that I'm sorry for being embarrassed by her, and that

776
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 2: obviously struck a chord with me, and I think it's

777
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 2: going to strike a chord with a lot of people

778
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: who will relate to that. But how important was it

779
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 2: to connect with your inner child during your recovery to

780
00:34:58,719 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 2: get to where you are today?

781
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was everything.

782
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 4: I think that's like the final piece of the puzzle,

783
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 4: being able to be like, oh, and that's what this

784
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 4: book's been really helpful with.

785
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 3: Is Yeah, it's a shame thing.

786
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 4: Like I did have a lot of shame about that

787
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 4: little girl, and you know, the first time someone commented

788
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 4: on my appearance and about my nose and I'd never

789
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 4: thought about it, and then oh no, no, it's hanging

790
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 4: over my head and I'm not the way that I

791
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 4: want to look.

792
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 3: And that's like a really important thing.

793
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 4: So being able to like look at photos of yourself

794
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 4: and not be embarrassed and not want to hide them,

795
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 4: that that was like half me to write as well.

796
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 4: That was an emotional sentence to write because I was like,

797
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 4: it is it is even hard to say that you're embarrassed,

798
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 4: Like that feeling of embarrassment over someone that you were

799
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 4: that you are. It's about accepting yourself now through the

800
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 4: little child. And I think like a lot of therapy

801
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 4: talks about you and a child and like talking to

802
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 4: it nicely because yeah, that person still yeah.

803
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that's what I mean.

804
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 4: When people ask to see my nose before, I'm like, well,

805
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 4: you're not allowed to be mean to that little girl.

806
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 3: I am and I don't anymore.

807
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 4: So I'm not going to let you look at the

808
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 4: photo of me before and tell me that it looks

809
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 4: a certain way because I'm still that person. And I

810
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 4: think sometimes that's hard for people to wrap their heads around. Maybe,

811
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 4: but yeah, I think like being able to because you

812
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 4: still remember the feeling of what it was like to

813
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 4: first not accept yourself. And I think because you can

814
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 4: feel that it is something that you can change, like

815
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 4: you can stay with you, but it can influence you

816
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 4: to not perpetuate that, like not be nice to children

817
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 4: and like realize that they're taking things on. You know,

818
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 4: just because someone's ten or eleven doesn't mean shit's.

819
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 3: Flowing off their back, like ye, yeah.

820
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 4: They're smart children smart. So yeah, I'm glad you liked

821
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 4: that bit.

822
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 3: Yeah it was beautiful Oh.

823
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 4: I don't know if I really answer that question, but

824
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 4: you made me emotional.

825
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: No, I think you definitely did.

826
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 2: And I think it's just a nice reminder for people

827
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: if they are, you know, being hard on themselves or

828
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 2: being their own worst critic, whether it's physically or emotionally

829
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 2: or mentally, to think of yourself as a child and

830
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 2: be like, it's a reminder that you're doing life for

831
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 2: the first time and you're still that person. And that

832
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 2: person was like innocent and pure and had good intentions

833
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 2: and just wanted to like be happy, and like you

834
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 2: can still be that person.

835
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 3: So yeah, it was beautiful.

836
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 5: I think there's going to be so so many takeaways

837
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 5: that people can get from this book. So I also

838
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 5: just want to thank you for writing it, because this

839
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 5: would have been a lot for someone to do and

840
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 5: it's very very incredible of you. But I want to

841
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 5: know what's your one takeaway that you really want people

842
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 5: to take away from your book.

843
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 4: Yes, my one takeaway is that thinking about food all

844
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 4: the time is not normal. It shouldn't be normal. It's

845
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 4: a prison. Know that you're in a prison if you're

846
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 4: thinking mut all the time. I think that everyone is

847
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 4: capable of going back to the way that they ate

848
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 4: when they're a child. I know that eating issues can

849
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 4: happen for people from a very very early age, but

850
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 4: I think looking into idea like, your body's so smart.

851
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 4: It knows what setway you meant to be. It knows

852
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 4: how much it needs to eat. Someone to struggle with

853
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 4: being eating And that was probably one of the hardest

854
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 4: things for me because it was very physical and it

855
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 4: was this problem that I couldn't work out. I was like,

856
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 4: I can't stop thinking about food.

857
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 3: I can't. And I'm like, I'm not going to go

858
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 3: back to being a kid where I don't think about it.

859
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 4: I've already opened Pandora's box. I'm never going to be

860
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 4: able to get that back. So my biggest takeaway, and

861
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 4: the biggest message that I hope at least one person

862
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 4: takes away from the book, is that it is possible

863
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 4: to not diet. It might You might have one hundred

864
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 4: percent of the people in your orbit will be dieting.

865
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 4: It's one way or another, watching what they eat, not

866
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 4: eating certain things, and that's their prerogative. That everyone's entitled

867
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 4: to eat what they do and don't want. So I guess, yeah,

868
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 4: the biggest takeaway would be know that dieting doesn't have

869
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 4: to be normal, and just know that. Like I'm someone

870
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 4: who was a hardcore dieter, and I don't think about

871
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 4: food at all anymore.

872
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 3: It's crazy. I think that's very unusual. I don't think

873
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 3: it should be on your usual.

874
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 4: But every day I wake up and I'm going to

875
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 4: brag about it, like I'm sorry, but it's amazing.

876
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 3: We've done the work. Yeah, I wake up and I

877
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 3: don't I just think what am I gonna eat today?

878
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 3: I don't even know. I don't care.

879
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 4: I'll just eat when I'm hungry. I'll eat whatever's there,

880
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,760
Speaker 4: might feel like something super healthy, might feel like whatever

881
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:17,879
Speaker 4: is in front of me. But I've got other things

882
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 4: to think about.

883
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 3: That's beautiful. Thank you so much. It's amazing.

884
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 2: We finish all of our episodes with guests with the

885
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 2: same question, and that is, what's your biggest life lesson

886
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 2: you've learned so far?

887
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 3: Mine is that a smile is everything. Oh it's beautiful,

888
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 3: I really mean it. It feels spiritual.

889
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 4: I'm not really a spiritual person, but like when you

890
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 4: walk past someone on the street and you smile, like

891
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 4: lights something up in my heart.

892
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 3: I can't even describe.

893
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 4: It's like a little something like very very deep, just

894
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 4: gets a little warmth around it.

895
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 3: It's a sparkling. There's something in it.

896
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 4: Guys, there's something spiritual about smiling. It sounds so naough

897
00:39:58,160 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 4: and so like I wish we could ald baker Ca

898
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 4: and eat it together.

899
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 3: But you know what I mean, just have a lot

900
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 3: of feelings.

901
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, someone young, a little baby, an old person, and

902
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 4: you just smile, and that's just like.

903
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 3: It's the best for me.

904
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 5: I'm done, Like, yes, yeah, I love especially when it's

905
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 5: a stranger.

906
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 4: Yes, we have no business smiling each other. We don't

907
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 4: want anything from each other, and we're just smiling and beautiful.

908
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 5: I would love for this to be everyone's takeaway, like

909
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 5: on Today that you listen to this episode, smile at

910
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 5: a stranger.

911
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's seriously special.

912
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 4: And even if they don't smile back, they've clocked it,

913
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 4: and a few more smiles and they'll start, Yeah, you're won.

914
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: Smile for them to start smiling at other people.

915
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, beautiful. I'm going to go a.

916
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: Smile at everyone like a mannic smile at the same time.

917
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

918
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 2: Fully, for anybody who doesn't already follow you, where can

919
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 2: they find you.

920
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 3: And of course where can people find the book?

921
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 4: Yes, so you can follow me at rooms Instagram that's

922
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 4: where I'm most vocal. That's rooms with three o's. And

923
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 4: then you can get my book wherever you get books.

924
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 4: I think it'd be at the airport bw all. Your

925
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 4: indie retailers have really gotten behind it, which is great.

926
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 3: So you just see it. It's yellow with a pink

927
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 3: writing all over. Wanted us to be hot, gorgeous. We'll

928
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 3: call links in the show now of course, get the

929
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 3: chicks around it.

930
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely well, thank you so much for coming on again.

931
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: I don't think we need to repeat it, but it

932
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: was an absolute pleasure.

933
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 3: The book is wonderful.

934
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: You should be so proud.

935
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 3: And thanks to you chicks for having us in the

936
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 3: ear holes. We love to be here.

937
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,959
Speaker 1: And thank you to MK made for making today's episode happen.

938
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 3: Love it.

939
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: Bye Chicky, Bye Chicks