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Speaker 1: We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land

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Speaker 1: on which this podcast was produced, the Galligle people of

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Speaker 1: the orination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present.

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Speaker 1: This episode contains discussion of suicide. If this raises any

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Speaker 1: issues for you, support is available through the links and

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Speaker 1: phone numbers in the show notes.

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Speaker 2: It's nineteen eighty two and we're in New Mexico.

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Speaker 3: Six year old Jeb Carlis is in the back of

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Speaker 3: his aunt's car watching birds soaring above. He announces, when

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Speaker 3: I get older, I'm going to do that. His aunt

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Speaker 3: explains that when he gets older, he realized that humans

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Speaker 3: can't fly. Jeb will go on to dedicate the next

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Speaker 3: forty two years of his life to human flight, from

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Speaker 3: major feats like the Eiffel Tower to the Golden Gate Bridge.

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Speaker 3: Jeb is compelled and propelled by fear, but he isn't

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Speaker 3: afraid of death.

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Speaker 2: He expects it.

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Speaker 3: I'm at Middleton and this is head Game today, one

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Speaker 3: of the world's greatest base jumpers on pushing this human

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Speaker 3: body to its absolute limits. Jeb calls, it's an absolute

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Speaker 3: pleasure to have you on my podcast.

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Speaker 2: Head Game Now.

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Speaker 3: Jeb spends more time in the air than he does

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Speaker 3: with his feet firmly on the ground. He is one

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Speaker 3: of the world's greatest base jumpers. Jeb, how are you, mate?

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Speaker 4: I am doing spectacular. This whole being a live thing

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Speaker 4: is super super awesome, you know what.

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Speaker 2: I love that, mate.

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Speaker 3: I've got that gratitude as well with some of the

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Speaker 3: experiences that you've been through. You know, just waking up,

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Speaker 3: taking that deep breath, being able to open your eyes

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Speaker 3: is you know, we're hugely grateful for that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I don't think people understand how rad it is

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Speaker 4: to not be dead like this. Being a live stuff

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Speaker 4: is super cool, and being dead is super lame. I mean,

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Speaker 4: OR had so many friends who died like twenty years ago,

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Speaker 4: and I look at the last twenty years and just go, man,

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Speaker 4: you guys missed out on such cool shit. Life is

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Speaker 4: so amazing. And it's weird because when you're younger, you

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Speaker 4: don't seem to appreciate like what life really is. You know,

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Speaker 4: it's strange. You have to kind of live long enough

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Speaker 4: for life to kind of teach you like how to

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Speaker 4: actually live it. It's strange. It's a weird experience. But

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Speaker 4: I feel really grateful now where I didn't when I

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Speaker 4: was younger, which is strange.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right though, mate. You know, you go through

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Speaker 3: these life experiences, you know, especially with yourself. You know,

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Speaker 3: you go to these heights of fear, you scrape the

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Speaker 3: bowl when it comes to treading that line of life

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Speaker 3: and death, you know, And that comes through, obviously, experience,

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Speaker 3: it comes through getting out there, It comes through committing

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Speaker 3: to life and committing to yourself. And that's what I

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Speaker 3: love about you, mate. I love that your attitude. You

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Speaker 3: had this I'm going to prove you wrong. Attitude from

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Speaker 3: the age of six, when you were in the car

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Speaker 3: with your aunt, right, take me back to that moment.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. So it's funny because when I was kid, I

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Speaker 4: had a lot of dreams and I was very unrealistic

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Speaker 4: about a lot of things. I had a very active imagination,

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Speaker 4: and you know, I had a lot of adults tell

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Speaker 4: me that my you know, imagination was unrealistic, and you know,

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Speaker 4: they may have been right. It may have been very unrealistic.

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Speaker 4: But as it turns out, I was sitting in the

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Speaker 4: backseat of my aunt's car. I was looking out the winder.

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Speaker 4: I was like six years old, and I remember seeing

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Speaker 4: birds standing on a telephone pole, like on the wire,

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Speaker 4: and I remember them jumping off and opening their wings

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Speaker 4: and starting to fly, and I remember going like, you know,

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Speaker 4: when I get older, I'm doing that, you know. And

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Speaker 4: my aunt, you know, kind of looked out the window

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Speaker 4: and saw what I was looking at, and she's just like, oh,

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Speaker 4: you know, you're really young. But when you get older,

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Speaker 4: you're gonna realize that's just not physically possible. And it's

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Speaker 4: interesting because now looking back, it's really fascinating when people

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Speaker 4: tell you you can't do something right, when they're saying

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Speaker 4: you can't do this or you can't do that, really

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Speaker 4: what they're saying is I can't do it. What they're

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Speaker 4: telling you is something that they're incapable of. And it's

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Speaker 4: really interesting because when you say you want to do something,

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Speaker 4: you know, they don't know what you're capable of. They

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Speaker 4: don't know who you are, they don't know what you

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Speaker 4: can do, but they do know who they are. They

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Speaker 4: do know what they can do.

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Speaker 3: And they don't know what goes on in here right

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Speaker 3: exactly what it was ticking in the back of your head.

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Speaker 4: And and they they try to place their limits on you.

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Speaker 4: And that's when they're telling you. When anyone tells you

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Speaker 4: you can't do something, really they're saying they can't do it.

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Speaker 4: And it's a fascinating thing because you know, at the

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Speaker 4: time I was young, I don't understand that I'm just

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Speaker 4: being told I can't do something. And I even then,

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Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, whatever, maybe you can't, but I'm

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Speaker 4: going to you know, And that was just my personality.

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Speaker 4: That's the kind of person I was, even as a

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Speaker 4: little little kid. But it's interesting because you know, I

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Speaker 4: had my first near death experience when I was six,

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Speaker 4: and it told me free that it's complicated, you know,

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Speaker 4: I was. My parents were art dealers when I was

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Speaker 4: a child, and they used to travel to foreign countries

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Speaker 4: like India, Nepal, Pakistan, and at five, we went on

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Speaker 4: a year long trip through India and Nepal, and when

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Speaker 4: I was in New Delhi, India, I got like, I

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Speaker 4: think we're like towards the end of the trip, so

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Speaker 4: I turned. I went from five and turned six while

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Speaker 4: it was in India, and I got something called the

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Speaker 4: Deli belly, which is like a really aggressive form of

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Speaker 4: a mubic dysentery and it, you know, I my parents

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Speaker 4: took me to a doctor who told them I was

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Speaker 4: going to die, that he could do nothing for me,

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Speaker 4: and that I was not going to make it. I'd

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Speaker 4: already lost over a third of my body weight and

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Speaker 4: I was already in a really bad way. Amoebic dysentery

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Speaker 4: and New Delhi is really bad. Like it's super serious.

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Speaker 4: It's a it's seriously the worst place you can get it,

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Speaker 4: one of the worst, and it's serious for an adult,

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Speaker 4: but for a child, you know, a five six year

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Speaker 4: old kid, it's super serious. And and like I said,

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Speaker 4: the first doctor they took me to who told them

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Speaker 4: I was going to die, like they're like, there's nothing

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Speaker 4: we can do. And they didn't like that. Obviously my

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Speaker 4: parents like, okay, second opinion on that one. You know,

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Speaker 4: obviously they were not going So they took me to

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Speaker 4: another doctor and and this was a more western doctor,

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Speaker 4: and they said, you know, they're, well, this bad. We're

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Speaker 4: not going to pretend like it isn't, you know, but

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Speaker 4: we're gonna do what we can do. And I didn't

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Speaker 4: end up dying, but I did go through three months

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Speaker 4: of serious hallucinations and like like serious problems. I mean,

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Speaker 4: it was it wasn't a joke and I remember it

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Speaker 4: like I can still remember going through the suffering. And

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Speaker 4: it's weird because after that I realized that I was

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Speaker 4: going to die. I just knew it. I mean, it's coming.

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Speaker 4: Death is coming for me.

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Speaker 3: And it was strange, but not in that moment you

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Speaker 3: just thought, well, actually, we're we're mortal.

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Speaker 2: You know, we die, We're die.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it's when I understood death was coming, right, not

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Speaker 4: that right this act. I survived this, but it's going

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Speaker 4: to happen. And I think that, you know, a lot

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Speaker 4: of people think that, you know, the transition from childhood

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Speaker 4: to adulthood, you know, is some age. I don't think so.

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Speaker 4: I think that the transition from child to adult is

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Speaker 4: understanding death. And I've met ninety year olds who still

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Speaker 4: don't understand death, and as far as I'm concerned, they're

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Speaker 4: still children. You know. I've also met, like you've met

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Speaker 4: kids who have experienced near death experiences and understand death,

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Speaker 4: and they are, in my opinion, adults. You know, once

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Speaker 4: you once you truly grasp what death is, and once

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Speaker 4: you truly accept that it's coming for you, you grow up.

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Speaker 4: You know, you become you understand it's you're forced to

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Speaker 4: grow up well. And it's and it's a philosophical understanding

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Speaker 4: because once you truly grasp death, and you truly grasp

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Speaker 4: it's coming to an end, all of a sudden, the

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Speaker 4: little bit of time you get to exist matters so

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Speaker 4: much more. All of a sudden, every moment becomes so

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Speaker 4: crucially important to you because you realize they're limited. You know,

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Speaker 4: so at six years old, to understand that my life

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Speaker 4: was limited and I only had a little bit of

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Speaker 4: time to get shit done, it made me, all of

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Speaker 4: a sudden, become much more focused on getting shit done.

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Speaker 3: And also that you wanted to fly as well. You know,

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Speaker 3: you wanted to get stuff done, you wanted to fly

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Speaker 3: like a bird.

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Speaker 4: And then you know, that actually came later because because

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Speaker 4: what happened unfortunately at that point when my aunt told me,

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Speaker 4: you know, that's not possible, at that moment, I was

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Speaker 4: already like I can do anything. Nothing, it's stop me, right.

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Speaker 4: But what's interesting is as a child, and I don't

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Speaker 4: think adults do this on purpose. I don't think it's

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Speaker 4: but adults do try to teach children how to live

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Speaker 4: in this world and how to exist, and they try

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Speaker 4: to teach you how to be realistic and how to

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Speaker 4: exist right. And I think in that process they have

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Speaker 4: a tendency to crush dreams and kind of kick dreams

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Speaker 4: out of you and kind of make you conform and

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Speaker 4: fit into a mold that they think you need to

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Speaker 4: exist on this planet and succeed in the future. And

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Speaker 4: it's not I don't think they're being it's not a

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Speaker 4: negative thing. They're not trying to do something bad to you.

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Speaker 4: They're actually trying to help you without really realizing that

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Speaker 4: what they're actually doing is kind of breaking your.

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Speaker 2: Limiting and limiting you as well and limiting you.

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Speaker 3: I always say that when parents say, oh, be careful,

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Speaker 3: watch out when you do, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

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Speaker 2: Let them find out that ship up, let them graze

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Speaker 2: any let them get back up.

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Speaker 4: That you have to you have to experience pain, You

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Speaker 4: have to struggle, you have to fail. These are important.

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Speaker 4: Let me put this way. You're gonna learn a lot

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Speaker 4: more from failing at doing something then you will from succeeding.

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Speaker 4: You know. So, if your parents are just making you

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Speaker 4: succeed all the time, you're not learning anything. You have

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Speaker 4: to fail at stuff. You have to fall down, you

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Speaker 4: have to break bones. You have to get hurt, you

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Speaker 4: have to like, you know, run in that race and lose,

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Speaker 4: you know, and this has to happen to you because

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Speaker 4: that's what helps you learn something right. And so what

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Speaker 4: happened to me is through my like younger years, like

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Speaker 4: grade school years and then early teens, I had been

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Speaker 4: so heavily broken by just the society in which I

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Speaker 4: lived and by the people who I was around. They

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Speaker 4: just kind of crushed me into the dirt, to the

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Speaker 4: point where I no longer remember any of the dreams

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Speaker 4: I had. I no longer had dreams, I no longer

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Speaker 4: had desires, I no longer wanted anything.

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Speaker 3: And do you remember being in the headspace do you

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Speaker 3: remember going from this young sort of I'm.

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Speaker 2: Happy to be alive. I want of the two.

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Speaker 3: God, this is quite you know, I'm being quite suppressed here,

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Speaker 3: I'm being quite limited.

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Speaker 2: I can't really do this.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I remember it, but I can't relate to that

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Speaker 4: person anymore. But what I can say is I remember

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Speaker 4: going through an incredibly dark period where I no longer

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Speaker 4: wanted anything, I no longer cared about anything, and I

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Speaker 4: became incredibly suicidal, like like I didn't.

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Speaker 2: Like it was a season.

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Speaker 4: Oh, this was between like twelve to to nineteen, Like

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Speaker 4: twelve to eighteen was where it got really strong. It

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Speaker 4: was at its worst at around sixteen sixteen was like

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Speaker 4: its most like acute. And if I hadn't found base

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Speaker 4: jumping at that moment in my life, I don't think

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Speaker 4: I would have survived. And what happened to me is

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Speaker 4: I was in a kind of a darkened state, really

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Speaker 4: bad place, and I was sitting on a couch, flicking

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Speaker 4: through endless television channels, you know, nothing, not caring about anything,

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Speaker 4: and all of a sudden, something came on the television

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Speaker 4: that just instantly just caught my attention, and it was

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Speaker 4: a man standing on the edge of a cliff, you know,

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Speaker 4: just standing there. And I remember going huh, like instantly,

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Speaker 4: what's that guy doing? And I was saying, like, looks

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Speaker 4: back at the camera, he sticks his tongue out, and

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Speaker 4: then he jumps off the cliff into a gainer, and

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Speaker 4: all of a sudden, that image from childhood kind of

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Speaker 4: flushed back in that dream of like flying all of

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Speaker 4: a sudden, like was kind of reignited, and as I

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Speaker 4: saw him, like, oh my god, I've been lied to

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Speaker 4: my entire life. That's what I was talking about. People

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Speaker 4: are doing it like that's that's exactly what I was

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Speaker 4: talking about. And this sense of like it felt almost

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Speaker 4: like electricity, like I could feel the hair standing on end.

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Speaker 4: I became like super like excited, and I'm like, that's it.

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Speaker 4: That's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do that for

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Speaker 4: the rest of my life until it kills me period.

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Speaker 4: I will never stop. I will do whatever it takes.

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Speaker 4: That's it. That's what I'm doing. So why I say

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Speaker 4: base jumping saved my life is because you know, you

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Speaker 4: go through like peaks and valleys with depression, like you

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Speaker 4: kind of come out of it and you'll be kind

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Speaker 4: of okay, and then you drop back into it and

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Speaker 4: you kind of come back out and you drop back

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Speaker 4: in and during that period for the next two years

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Speaker 4: in mile because you can't just start base jumping. It

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Speaker 4: doesn't work like that. You know, as a sixteen year old,

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Speaker 4: you know, I would I call every drop zone like

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Speaker 4: I want to base jump, and they just like laughed, like, ah.

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Speaker 2: I can.

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Speaker 3: I quickly take you back to that moment that you

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Speaker 3: saw that bass jumper, when you initially saw that person

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Speaker 3: standing on the edge of a cliff. Did it get

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Speaker 3: your attention because he was stood on the edge of

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Speaker 3: a cliff just about to jump, or was it when

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Speaker 3: he jumped off the cliff and the parachute opened and

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Speaker 3: then he jumped off, and did it sort of take

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Speaker 3: you back to that moment where you're like, I want

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Speaker 3: to fly, you know, well, actually we'll actually call that.

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Speaker 4: I think it's it's layered, and it's actually interesting you

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Speaker 4: asked that question, because no one's ever asked that. I

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Speaker 4: saw it as a very perfect activity from my mindset

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Speaker 4: as a sixteen year old depressed child, right, which was,

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Speaker 4: if I did it, then I would do something that

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Speaker 4: very few human beings on this planet are willing to

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Speaker 4: do because they're so terrified of dying, right, Like I

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Speaker 4: wasn't worried about the death part, right, so I felt

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Speaker 4: like I could excel and push it to another level.

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Speaker 4: The best way I can describe it is imagine me

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Speaker 4: trapped in a dark cave, right with no light. You're

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Speaker 4: in darkness, there is no possibility of anything. And then

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Speaker 4: all of a sudden, what base jumping became was this

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Speaker 4: little tiny light off in the distance, right, and I

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Speaker 4: could see this light. Now that I was like, well,

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Speaker 4: let's go towards the light, like what is that? And

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Speaker 4: that was base jumping for me, right and on that

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Speaker 4: journey towards that light because it takes time. You can't

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Speaker 4: just get there like You're gonna have to go climb

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Speaker 4: those little hills and climb those little mountains and claw

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Speaker 4: your way towards the light. And what would happen is

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Speaker 4: every now and then during that process because it took me.

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Speaker 4: I didn't get to do my first skuydive until I

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Speaker 4: was eighteen. I didn't get to do my first base

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Speaker 4: jump un till I was twenty one. So we're talking about,

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Speaker 4: you know, five years of time for me to even

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Speaker 4: get to the place where I could do a base jump.

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Speaker 3: But was that focus for you? Was that a drive?

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Speaker 3: Was that something that kept you ultimately kept you alive?

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Speaker 4: It's more than that, because let's just say, you know,

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Speaker 4: in sixteen, that's when I was at my darkest period,

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Speaker 4: but it was still pretty dark through seventeen through eighteen.

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Speaker 4: It wasn't like I was a big, happy, smiley person

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Speaker 4: just because I found purpose. You know, It's more than that.

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Speaker 4: So what would happen is I would get into these

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Speaker 4: really dark places, and what stopped me from doing it

303
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Speaker 4: was all of a sudden, I'd be like on the

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Speaker 4: edge and I'd like, no, don't waste it. Like, if

305
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Speaker 4: you're gonna kill yourself anyway, do something with your death,

306
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Speaker 4: you know, you go base jumping, like get that goal.

307
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Speaker 4: And that's what made me hang on during those really

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Speaker 4: dark periods where things just felt like they were crushing

309
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Speaker 4: me and I just felt like what's the point and

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Speaker 4: like life just seems so utterly pointless. And then in

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Speaker 4: the process of training right because you like I said,

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Speaker 4: it takes time. You have to do you know, one

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Speaker 4: hundred and fifty to two hundred skydivees before you can

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Speaker 4: even begin base jumping, right and to get there, you know,

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Speaker 4: And at the time, I didn't have a lot of money.

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Speaker 4: I worked at a movie theater as a projectionist, you know,

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Speaker 4: making you know, minimum wage, which was like three twenty

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Speaker 4: five at an hour at the time. You know, yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's nothing. So you know, I would save up money,

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Speaker 4: go do a skydive. Save up money, go to a skydive.

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Speaker 4: So it took me almost let's see, it was from

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Speaker 4: eighteen to twenty one to basically get my license, which

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Speaker 4: you know, most people can do that in a couple

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Speaker 4: of weekends, but I didn't have the money, so I

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Speaker 4: had like literally save up jump, save up jump. So

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Speaker 4: it took a long time, which was good. It was

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Speaker 4: actually good for me because by the time I got

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Speaker 4: to base jumping, I didn't want to die anymore. All

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Speaker 4: of a sudden, by the time, you know, at twenty one,

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Speaker 4: I wasn't suicidal anymore. I'd become super happy. I'd met

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Speaker 4: a bunch of people who I enjoyed their company. I

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Speaker 4: found people who are like minded. I started making friends,

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Speaker 4: and it started in the community, well community, and more

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Speaker 4: than that, I just I get the purpose. Like I mean,

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Speaker 4: I think that's what most people like. They're like, oh,

336
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,400
Speaker 4: you know, whatever is John Lennon, Like, you know, meaning

337
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,080
Speaker 4: of life is being happy? You know, No, not really,

338
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Speaker 4: the meaning of life is purpose. You have to have

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Speaker 4: a reason to be here, a reason to eat eat,

340
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,160
Speaker 4: eat food, drink water, breathe oxygen, a reason to exist.

341
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Speaker 4: There has to be a reason. You need some kind

342
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,720
Speaker 4: of purpose. You need meaning, right and then once you

343
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,240
Speaker 4: have meaning and you have purpose, then that gives you

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Speaker 4: the drive to go out there and do that purpose,

345
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Speaker 4: do what that is and in the process of striving,

346
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,440
Speaker 4: especially if it's a difficult thing, if it's a scary thing,

347
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Speaker 4: if it's something that can like break you and kill

348
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,680
Speaker 4: you and do horrible, awful things to you. For some reason,

349
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:15,920
Speaker 4: that struggle is what brings happiness. By succeeding and overcoming

350
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:20,040
Speaker 4: those obstacles and doing things really difficult and literally facing

351
00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:21,800
Speaker 4: stuff that you don't know if you can do it.

352
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,040
Speaker 4: You're like, I don't know if I have what it

353
00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,600
Speaker 4: takes to make this happen, right, And then you do it,

354
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,880
Speaker 4: and you're like, and that sense of accomplishment, that sense

355
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,359
Speaker 4: of doing something really difficult and really painful and something

356
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,960
Speaker 4: that was really hard, right, and you struggled to get there.

357
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Speaker 4: That accomplishment then brings happiness. Happiness is like a byproduct,

358
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Speaker 4: like a really nice byproduct of accomplishing a difficult task.

359
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,760
Speaker 4: That's really what it comes from. People don't understand. You

360
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,200
Speaker 4: can't be at peak happiness one hundred percent of the time,

361
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,040
Speaker 4: otherwise it's not peak happiness anymore. It just becomes normal.

362
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,119
Speaker 4: So then you get to base jumping and you start

363
00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:03,720
Speaker 4: doing what it is and you start, you know, experiencing horrific,

364
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:08,439
Speaker 4: horrendous shit like things that. I mean, dude, by this

365
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,200
Speaker 4: way is as dangerous as you think. Base jumping is

366
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Speaker 4: as dangerous as people assume they have no clue. It

367
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,240
Speaker 4: is lethal and scary on a level that is impossible

368
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,920
Speaker 4: to comprehend, and like it. I've done a lot of

369
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,959
Speaker 4: dangerous stuff in my life. I ride motorcycles, I climb,

370
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,000
Speaker 4: surf big waves, dive with sharks, you know, I do

371
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,640
Speaker 4: all this stuff. I skydiving. And what you learn when

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00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,000
Speaker 4: you start doing these more dangerous activities is there actually

373
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,639
Speaker 4: not that bad. You know, with the right training and

374
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,040
Speaker 4: the right preparation, you can actually do them in a

375
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,680
Speaker 4: relatively safe way, right where they're no longer this like

376
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:43,680
Speaker 4: horror show where you're like scared all the time, where

377
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,320
Speaker 4: it actually becomes enjoyable and fun. Base jumping is the

378
00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,719
Speaker 4: first thing that I got into that is not only

379
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Speaker 4: every bit as scary and dangerous as I thought it was,

380
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,600
Speaker 4: but after a decade of doing it, you're like, oh

381
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Speaker 4: my god, I had no idea like this.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes the best route, mate, Sometimes the naive is the

383
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:04,280
Speaker 3: best route.

384
00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:09,000
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, It's it's so bad that I cannot even

385
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,919
Speaker 4: describe it to you. It's it's impossible, Like I have

386
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:17,720
Speaker 4: seen things that I could never have imagined. I've experienced things,

387
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:22,159
Speaker 4: I've I've felt pain on levels that are I didn't

388
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:30,200
Speaker 4: think were possible. It is an absolutely terrifying sport.

389
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Speaker 3: Take me back to that very first and not base jump.

390
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,560
Speaker 3: That very first time you were in the air, looking

391
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,520
Speaker 3: out the door and thinking, well, this is this is it?

392
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:45,679
Speaker 3: How did you manage that?

393
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:46,040
Speaker 2: Fear?

394
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:50,040
Speaker 4: Fear is a process, okay, and anyone who lifts weights

395
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,440
Speaker 4: or works out in a gym, it's a very similar process. Right.

396
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,479
Speaker 4: So let's say your goal, right, my goal was base jumping, right,

397
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 4: that's what I wanted to do. You can't just do that.

398
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 4: If you do, the fear will overwhelm you and you

399
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:03,600
Speaker 4: will die. It's kind of like being in a gym

400
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,200
Speaker 4: AND's like my goal is to bench press three hundred pounds. Yeah,

401
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,680
Speaker 4: go okay, Yeah, you'll literally just crush yourself and you'll die.

402
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:11,679
Speaker 4: I mean literally, the first day you can't even get

403
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:12,920
Speaker 4: the weight off the rat grey.

404
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 2: Time is out back.

405
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,360
Speaker 4: The stude's gonna crush himself, right, because you have to prepare,

406
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,960
Speaker 4: and fear is the same thing. Right, You'll start with

407
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,640
Speaker 4: the bar forty five pounds, right, then you'll put ten

408
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,800
Speaker 4: pounders on and then you'll slowly, over time start adding weight,

409
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,199
Speaker 4: adding weight, adding weight, and you'll just keep pushing and

410
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 4: pushing until eventually, over enough time, with enough reps, with

411
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,360
Speaker 4: enough experience, you'll be able to push that three hundred pounds.

412
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 4: Fear is the same way fear. You don't just start,

413
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,840
Speaker 4: you know, by jumping off the Eiffel Tower and doing

414
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,240
Speaker 4: a double reverse flip. Right, that's not how it starts.

415
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 4: It starts with a tandem skydive. Right. You go do

416
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 4: a tam so you're hooked to an instructor. You get

417
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,719
Speaker 4: he's in charge of everything. All you have to do

418
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,440
Speaker 4: is go for the ride. You get to have the

419
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 4: experience of what it's like to be in the plane,

420
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 4: look out the door, step out of an air craft

421
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,160
Speaker 4: of twelve thousand feet, be in free fall. You know,

422
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 4: then you're not You don't have to worry about controlling

423
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,479
Speaker 4: the parachute. So that gives you your first sense of fear,

424
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 4: of like, oh, this is what this is? Okay, I suppose.

425
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:16,919
Speaker 3: It's like exposure taking the layers off. Yeah, exposure, exposure, repetition, repetition, right.

426
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 4: Well, you know it's funny because you hear the term

427
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 4: desensitization like it's a negative thing, right, you'll hear that

428
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 4: all the time, like desinsinization. In America they use it

429
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 4: as this like negative term. But in all honesty, that

430
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 4: is the process of overcoming fear. You have to desensitize.

431
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,120
Speaker 4: That's it's an absolute necessity if you're if you're gonna

432
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 4: fight in a ring, or you're gonna do anything, you

433
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,199
Speaker 4: have to learn how to cope with that fear. And

434
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 4: that comes from desensitizing yourself to it. It actually makes

435
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 4: you stronger. And and that's what fear is. Fear is

436
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 4: you expose yourself to small fear in the beginning that

437
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 4: isn't actually dangerous, right, It's just things that scare you

438
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 4: but won't actually hurt you. That's the first fear you

439
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,280
Speaker 4: deal with, the fears that won't actually inflict physical harm

440
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 4: to you, but just give you that sensation of fear.

441
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 2: Take me back to your first base jump jemp.

442
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 4: You know that's not a good one to take you

443
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 4: back to you because my first one didn't scare me

444
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:12,120
Speaker 4: that much. See, the base jumps are funny because there

445
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 4: are base jumps Like now I can do base jumps

446
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 4: that I don't even get my heart rate doesn't even

447
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 4: go up like I can do base jumps. R. I

448
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,159
Speaker 4: just step off and it's just and and I do

449
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,199
Speaker 4: a gainer and it's just like, I don't even my

450
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 4: heart rate doesn't even change.

451
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 3: Right.

452
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 4: So there are bass jumps that are totally chill, totally mellow.

453
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,880
Speaker 4: Then there are bass jumps that are so goddamn horrifying

454
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,639
Speaker 4: that literally my entire body is shaking. I'm on the

455
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 4: verge of throwing up. I'm literally about to literally collapse

456
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 4: under my own skin. I've been on base jumps where

457
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 4: I've started crying.

458
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 2: Take me back to an example of that.

459
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 3: When was the first time that you felt that when

460
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,439
Speaker 3: because you said your first one was comfortable, when's the

461
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 3: first When was your first one where you were like whoa, whoa.

462
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 4: There was a little three hundred foot in Tena that

463
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 4: was about forty five minutes from my house in Malibu,

464
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 4: and the the the antenna was on a little hill

465
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 4: in came Rio, right off the one oh one freeway,

466
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 4: and I used to drive by it. And it was

467
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 4: very early in my base jumping, like I had just started.

468
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 4: I had like, I think five base jumps. I think

469
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 4: this was gonna be my sixth jump. All my other

470
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 4: base jumps were off this really high bridge. I considered

471
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,680
Speaker 4: it to be safe. I felt comfortable there. It didn't

472
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 4: it for some reason. Yes, it was scary, but it

473
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 4: wasn't like life altering or life changing. And actually it

474
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,199
Speaker 4: almost let me down a little bit, like I was.

475
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 4: I was like, man, I was expecting this to be

476
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 4: a little bit more like. It just didn't seem I'm like,

477
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 4: I thought this was gonna be a lot like more

478
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 4: like life altering is what I thought. But it wasn't.

479
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 4: It was kind of scary, but it wasn't like you know,

480
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,919
Speaker 4: this one. So I find this little antenna, like always

481
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 4: kind of looking at it, and I'm like, I wonder

482
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 4: if that's tall enough. But I always thought it was

483
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 4: like seventy five feet tall. Looked like this tiny little

484
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 4: thing on this hill. I'm like, that's not high enough.

485
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 2: Whatever.

486
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 4: Anyways, I had a buddy who's a pilot who had

487
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 4: an aeronautical chart, And the aeronautical chart tells you how

488
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 4: tall every building is, how tall every antenna is. It

489
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 4: tells you all obstacles that you could potentially hit with aircraft.

490
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,959
Speaker 4: So he had an aeronautical chart of the camera rio area,

491
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 4: and I'm like, hey, I wonder how high that antenna is.

492
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 4: So I got his aeronautical chart. I found the antenna

493
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 4: and it said three hundred feet and I was like,

494
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 4: holy shit, that's like you can base jump that. That's

495
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 4: high enough, like just high enough, but it's high enough.

496
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 4: Like I'm like, I'm gonna go base jump that, you.

497
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 2: Know, just high enough. Yeah, Well it wasn't high enough.

498
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 4: But this is the thing, I know more now than

499
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 4: I did then, Right, So you have to understand a

500
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 4: lot of this has to do with timing, and it

501
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 4: has to do with with education, It has to do

502
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 4: with preparation, it has to do with training. So what

503
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 4: happened is at the time I had gone through a

504
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 4: little course from a group called Basic Research, which were

505
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 4: the first group who was training base jumpers. And my instructors,

506
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 4: I had two of them. One was Todd Shoeboth and

507
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 4: Anne Helliwell, and I called up Annie and I said, hey,

508
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 4: you know, I found this antenna and I had gone

509
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 4: there and I'd scouted it out and I'd figured out

510
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 4: exactly how high I could jump from. I couldn't jump

511
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 4: from the top because there was antenna stuff. So I

512
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 4: had to jump from under the antenna stuff, so it

513
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 4: was like two hundred and sixty feet, so you know,

514
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 4: I needed some information. I was told never to like

515
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 4: free fall under three hundred feet, that I needed to

516
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 4: use a static line. Blah blah blah. It's all complicated. Shit.

517
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 4: I don't want to get too into that because it's

518
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 4: too complicated. But I called her to ask her a

519
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 4: very simple, like technical question, and the question was, Hey,

520
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 4: if I use a forty eight inch pilot shoot and

521
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 4: I do a go and throw, how long will it

522
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 4: take my parachute open? And she's like, whoa, whoa, whoa,

523
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 4: what are you trying to jump off of? And I'm like, oh,

524
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,479
Speaker 4: it's a three hundred foot antenna And I was explained.

525
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 4: She's like whoa wait, okay and antenna shaul. Does it

526
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 4: have guy wires or is it free standing? And I'm like,

527
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 4: it has guy wires. She's like, okay, don't jump that.

528
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 4: It's like straight up, I'm telling you right now, if

529
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 4: you jump an antenna that low that has guy wires

530
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 4: and you get a ninety left or right, you're going

531
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 4: to die. Like that's it. It's going to kill you.

532
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 4: Do not jump that antenna. It's a bad jump. Just

533
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 4: don't even go anywhere near it. And I'm like, Okay,

534
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 4: that's really great information. That's not what I asked you.

535
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 4: The question is if I do a going through with

536
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 4: a forty eight inch pilot, shoot, how long will it

537
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 4: take my parachute open? And she's like, Jeb, shall do

538
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 4: not jump that. She'll you are not ready for something

539
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 4: like that. And she's like, and when you do get

540
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 4: ready for something like that, you won't jump it because

541
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 4: you'll know better. She's like, so don't go jump that.

542
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 4: And I'm like, how long will it take my parachute open?

543
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 4: She's like, Jeb, probably about one hundred and fifty feet.

544
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 4: I'm like, perfect click, and I'm like, that's it. One

545
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty feet. I'm jumping for two hundred and sixty.

546
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 4: That gives me around what ninety feet to land. I'm good,

547
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 4: I'm gonna do this, right. I end up going out there.

548
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 4: So it's it's complicated. It's such a complicated story. But

549
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 4: at the time, I was living in my parents' guest house, right,

550
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 4: So that's you know, that's kind of how I was

551
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 4: able to like survive. I would work, make my money

552
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 4: go do that, and I didn't have rent because I

553
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 4: was leaving my parents' guest house. I was leaving to

554
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:50,959
Speaker 4: go do this jump, and my mom saw me with

555
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 4: my rig. She knew I only had five base trimps.

556
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 4: I was obviously just knew, and she's like, what is

557
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 4: there to jump around here? So she sees me getting

558
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 4: in my car with my rig and she's like hey,

559
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 4: she runs out. She liked, what are you doing. I'm like, oh,

560
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 4: I found this three hundred foot antenna. I'm gonna go

561
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 4: base jump in She's like, whoa, whoa, exaid, what are

562
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 4: you talking about? She had listened to me long enough,

563
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 4: like you know, you're talking to your parents, You're like

564
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 4: telling them and explaining things to them. So she understood

565
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 4: just enough to know that that was a really bad

566
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 4: idea at my skill level. Right that I was not

567
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 4: that she knew the lower things were the more dangerous.

568
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 4: It was that that's three hundred feet. That's really low.

569
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 4: And she's like, no, jeb, I don't I don't think

570
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 4: that's a good idea. And I'm like, yeah, well I'm

571
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 4: doing it. And she's like, Okay, I've never told you

572
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 4: not to do anything in your life. You know, I've

573
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 4: always supported you in everything. So I'm telling you right now,

574
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 4: if you do this, you need to find a new

575
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 4: place to live. That's how serious this is. And I'm like, okay,

576
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 4: you do what you need to do. I'm gonna do

577
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 4: what I need to do. And I just got in

578
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 4: my car and left. I'm like, if I have to

579
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 4: move out, I'll move out. I don't care. Nothing's gonna

580
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 4: stop me from doing this, right. I called when I

581
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,479
Speaker 4: called my best buddy at the time, and I said, Hey,

582
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go jump this three hundred foot antenna. I'd

583
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 4: like you to come and do ground crew for me

584
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 4: in case I break a leg or get hurt, so

585
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 4: I have someone to call the you know, call help,

586
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 4: right And he responded with I'm not gonna come watch

587
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 4: you kill yourself, Jeb Zaul. If you're doing this, you're

588
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 4: doing this on your own. You're gonna do this by yourself.

589
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 4: I Am not gonna come there. And I'm like, okay,

590
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 4: that's fine. Then I do it alone, you know, And

591
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,199
Speaker 4: I'm like, there's nothing that's gonna stop me from doing this.

592
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 4: That's it.

593
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 3: I'm going, Well, something is in you ahead, Jeb, is

594
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 3: it is it very very hard to extract it is

595
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 3: it is?

596
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 2: Do you have to do it to get it done?

597
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 2: To take it off?

598
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 4: The answer to that is no. But what I will

599
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 4: say is, at this particular moment, in this particular jump,

600
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 4: this was something I had to do because at this

601
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 4: point I didn't feel like a base jumper yet the

602
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 4: jump that I had done didn't really do anything for me.

603
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 4: I needed to see, you know what, can I do this?

604
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 4: Am I capable of pushing through genuine horror?

605
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 2: Like?

606
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 4: Can I do this? Is? I knew what the dangers were.

607
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 4: I I got what everyone was saying. It wasn't like

608
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 4: I was being delusional. I understood I needed to do this.

609
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 4: So I get there. It's like I would have to

610
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 4: wait till dark because it's obviously the one oh one,

611
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 4: so you don't want to be seen climbing it, so

612
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 4: it has to be pitch black. It was a new moon,

613
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 4: so it was a pitch goddamn black. I get to

614
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 4: the hill like around eleven o'clock at night, and what

615
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 4: was interesting is I had scouted it the week before,

616
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 4: but the week before it was really cold. Tonight was

617
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 4: actually a nice, warm night, like it was spring, like

618
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 4: the temperature was just starting to change, and I start

619
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 4: walking up the hill and it's pitch black. I can't

620
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 4: turn lights on because I don't want people seeing me

621
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 4: going up the hill. And all of a sudden, I

622
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 4: just hear this sound of it's a fucking rattlesnake, and

623
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 4: it's like right next to me, dude, and I'm like,

624
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 4: oh shit.

625
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 2: I cat signs of them.

626
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 4: I'm like, ah fuck. And I was when I was

627
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 4: a little kid. I used to catch rattle snakes for fun,

628
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 4: so I knew how dangerous they are. And you definitely

629
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 4: don't want to be around rattlesnakes in the dark when

630
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 4: you can't see them. And I'm like, oh shit. So

631
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 4: I kind of like grope around looking for a stick,

632
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 4: and I find like a stick and I kind of

633
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,479
Speaker 4: push it out in front of myself as I'm walking.

634
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 4: And as I'm walking, dude, it's like just a chain reaction.

635
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 4: There are hundreds of rattlesnakes. They are fucking everywhere. And

636
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 4: this hillside has one road and around the road is

637
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 4: filled with cactus, so it's all cactus. So when I

638
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 4: jump this thing, I have to land on this road

639
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 4: in the dark, covered in fucking rattlesnakes, and around it

640
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 4: are cactus everywhere. So I'm just like, this is insane,

641
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 4: Like what am I doing? That's actually not what I

642
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 4: was saying. Well, it's funny as I was tricking myself

643
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 4: into doing it. So what I was saying is I'm

644
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 4: not doing this. So I'm walking up. I'm like, I'm

645
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 4: just gonna walk up there and I'm just gonna go

646
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 4: take a look. That's all I was doing, right, So

647
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 4: I'm walking, walking, walking, and I'm like pushing rattlesnakes out

648
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 4: of way, and I'm like they just keep going off.

649
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 4: I get to the fence, which is a razor wire fence.

650
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 4: I take a jacket, throw it over the razor wire,

651
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 4: climb over the road wire, get into the antenna. The

652
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 4: antenna is so tiny, it's three hundred feet so it

653
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 4: has one light in the middle and one light on top,

654
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 4: and the actual ladder's on the outside. So I'm climbing

655
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 4: on the outside of an antenna doing this with no protection.

656
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 4: You fall, you die, you know, And I'm just climbing

657
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 4: this ladder and as I'm climbing, I'm just like, I

658
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 4: am not going to do this, Like this is not happening,

659
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 4: like I Am not doing this. As I keep moving

660
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 4: and as I'm going further, my heart is literally beating

661
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 4: in my chest in a way that it's impossible to

662
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 4: describe it because it actually feels like it's moving up

663
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 4: and into my throat, like it's actually trying to Yeah,

664
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 4: it's like my heart's trying to escape out my mouth

665
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 4: like it wants it doesn't want anything to do with this.

666
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 4: It wants to get away from me. It's like, what

667
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 4: are you doing? And the horror in fear gets more

668
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 4: and more intense because i know I'm gonna do it,

669
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,239
Speaker 4: even though I'm telling myself, no, I'm not gonna do this.

670
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 4: I'm gonna wait, I'm not gonna do this. I get

671
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 4: to the two hundred and sixty foot mark. The antenna's

672
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 4: shaped like a like an a, and I get inside

673
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 4: the antenna and I'm sitting on one bar with my

674
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 4: feet on the other two and I'm looking down. I

675
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 4: can see through the antenna all the way to the ground,

676
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 4: but it's really dark, it's like super pitch black, and

677
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 4: I'm sitting there. I'm kind of like looking out and

678
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 4: it's totally calm, not a breath of air, literally zero wind,

679
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 4: and I'm looking down the freeway and I just see

680
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 4: cars just snaking off in both directions, and it was

681
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 4: so surrealistic, Like it's so surreal it's hard to even

682
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 4: your mind goes into the super strange place because I'm

683
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 4: sitting inside an antenna three like to well, two hundred

684
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 4: and sixty feet off the ground, just watching cars pitch black.

685
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 4: I can't see the road I'm supposed to land on.

686
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 4: I can't see shit. And I'm just like and I

687
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 4: start telling myself, like, you know, I'm not ready for this.

688
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 4: You know, maybe after I do, you know, I go Norway,

689
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 4: I do some big jumps, maybe I'll get ready for

690
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 4: this and I'll come back. I'm not doing this. As

691
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 4: I'm telling myself that I get my pilot shoot out,

692
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 4: and I'm like starting to get my pilot shoot ready,

693
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,239
Speaker 4: and I'm like, there's no way I'm doing this. As

694
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 4: I slide out the antenna and I'm like hanging out

695
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 4: and I'm like looking down and right then I'm like,

696
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 4: I am not going to do this. As I push off,

697
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 4: and I remember pushing off And this has only happened

698
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 4: to me a couple times in my life, and usually

699
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 4: it's during accidents. This is the only time I've ever

700
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 4: had this happen when it wasn't an accident. And what

701
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 4: happened is I push off and I throw the pilot

702
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 4: choote and then everything freezes. Time just stops, like everything's

703
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 4: just and it's literally time all of a sudden just

704
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 4: distorts and starts stretching, and all of a sudden, seconds

705
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 4: are stretched into what feel like minutes, Like it's the

706
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 4: most bizarre experience when all of a sudden, time just goes.

707
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 3: God, and it's in that moment, isn't it, in that

708
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 3: pacific moment. It's not moments, it's not moments.

709
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 4: It's that moment. And what I'm doing is I'm just

710
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 4: frozen and I'm looking down, and all of a sudden,

711
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 4: I can feel the hair standing up on the back

712
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 4: of my neck. I can feel the air literally touching

713
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,959
Speaker 4: my skin. I can all of a sudden look down

714
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 4: and I can see like I was pitch black, I

715
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 4: couldn't see shit. And now all of a sudden, I

716
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 4: see the razor wire fence, I can see the road,

717
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 4: I can see the cactuses. All of a sudden, I'm

718
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,720
Speaker 4: like my senses all of a sudden became super hyper aware,

719
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 4: and as I'm looking down, I see the little red

720
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 4: light that marks the center of the antenna. Now I'm

721
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 4: just watching it slowly start coming, and all of a sudden,

722
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 4: I pass the little red light that marks the middle.

723
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 4: And as I pass that light, my brain all of

724
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 4: a sudden does these like really quick calculations and it's like,

725
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 4: wait a minute, You've just gone more than half the antenna.

726
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 4: Your parachute hasn't opened yet, You've gone more than one

727
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty feet. Oh shit, you're going in like

728
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 4: uh oh. And I remember seeing the razor wire fence

729
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 4: which was going to be my impact point, and I

730
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 4: see it coming and I'm like, oh shit. And I

731
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 4: remember bringing my hands up and by bracing for impacts

732
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 4: like I'm gonna be like, okay, I'm hitting this friggin

733
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,879
Speaker 4: like razor wire fence. So I bring my arms up,

734
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 4: and right as I do this, I hear this sound

735
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 4: of velcrow going and what that is is at the

736
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 4: back of the shrivel flap of my parachute. It goes,

737
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,720
Speaker 4: and then all of a sudden, my parachute opens. Dude.

738
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 4: It felt like someone had taken me and placed me

739
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 4: against a brick wall and took a baseball bat and

740
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 4: just hit me in the chest with it as hard

741
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 4: as they could and literally just like boom. And the

742
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 4: impact of opening was so strong that it almost knocked

743
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 4: me unconscious. And I'm like cool, and I'm like holy shit,

744
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 4: And all of a sudden, I'm so low. I don't

745
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,800
Speaker 4: have time to grab toggles. I just grab one rear riser.

746
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 4: I'm turning as I impact the asphalt of the road,

747
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 4: and I bounce off the asphalt sideways. So I hit

748
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 4: the asphalt, bounce, and I'm laying in the grass and

749
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 4: I remember my entire body just vibrating, and then I

750
00:35:55,560 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 4: remember like standing up and I could see everything and

751
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 4: I can actually hear little insects crawling in the grass,

752
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 4: I mean, and I was so oh dude, I was

753
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 4: connected and wired to the reality and the universe in

754
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 4: which I existed in a way that I've never felt.

755
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 4: I mean, it was so powerful, and all of a sudden,

756
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 4: I'm like, that's it. I'm a base jumper.

757
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:31,439
Speaker 3: Now you went to South Africa tabletop, you jump off,

758
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 3: you injure yourself and then you think to yourself, right,

759
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 3: I'm going to go back there and then.

760
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 2: You mess yourself up. You fuck yourself up even more.

761
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 3: Take me through that mindset that you had and what

762
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 3: actually happened on that day.

763
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 4: Well, needless to say, I've been almost killed twice in

764
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 4: South Africa. The first time was jumping off a three

765
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 4: hundred foot waterfall where I broke my back in three places,

766
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,399
Speaker 4: all my ribs, left foot, right knee. I was eating

767
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 4: live by animals for three hours where I waited for rescue.

768
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 4: Rescue took nine hours. Spent six weeks laying in a

769
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 4: South African hospital on my back broken, completely shattered.

770
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 2: How how did that happen?

771
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 4: I mean, there are a lot of things. It's I

772
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,919
Speaker 4: messed up. I was new. I only had forty base jumps.

773
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 4: It was in nineteen ninety nine, like I had just

774
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,879
Speaker 4: I was in the very early stages. Basically, It's funny

775
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 4: because it was the beginning of my career, and my

776
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 4: career ended with the career ending injury, Like there was

777
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 4: an injury that should have stopped me from base jumping,

778
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 4: like any normal sane human would would have been like, Okay,

779
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 4: that's it, I'm done with this. And the doctor even

780
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 4: said he walks into the you know when I'm in

781
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 4: the emergency room and I'm in he comes in. He's like, oh,

782
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 4: I bet you're never gonna do that again. And I'm

783
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 4: just like, uh, actually, the only two things in the

784
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 4: world are going to prevent me from base jumping or

785
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 4: quadriplegia or death. Anything short of that, I'm gonna keep jumping.

786
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 4: And he just looked at me and he's like, whoa,

787
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 4: He's all right, Well, I guess you'll keep jumping then,

788
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 4: you know. But that that, at that stage in my life,

789
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 4: there was just nothing. I mean, I didn't care. The

790
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 4: only reason I was getting better, the reason I went

791
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 4: to rehab, the reason I worked out and fixed my

792
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 4: back and fixed the injuries, was so I could jump again.

793
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 4: That's all I cared about. That's all there was. So

794
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 4: that was, you know, in ninety nine nine, And then

795
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 4: the one you're talking about was in twoenty and twelve.

796
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 4: I was filming for Real Sports on HBO. At that

797
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 4: stage was like thirteen fourteen years. I'd already been earning

798
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 4: a living as a base jumper. I'd already done countless documentaries,

799
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 4: I'd already done countless TV shows, and now I was

800
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 4: already filming and I'm doing a show now for real

801
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 4: sports now.

802
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 3: And this is why it's so interesting this one, because

803
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 3: you know you you experienced your the top of your game.

804
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 3: You're at the top of the game, and this is

805
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:30,720
Speaker 3: why I just want to know about your headspace.

806
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:31,240
Speaker 2: Was it?

807
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,760
Speaker 3: Was it never by you? Did you go in over confident?

808
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 3: Did you go in you know? Did ego get in

809
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 3: the way?

810
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 2: Did you know? Do you know what I mean? This

811
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: is why it's so interesting that moment.

812
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 4: The reality of the situation is all those things come

813
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 4: to play. But really, at the end of the day,

814
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 4: it's simpler than that. The real reality is is wingstue

815
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 4: proximity flying has very small margins for error, and when

816
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 4: you make mistakes, the mistakes are very serious. Usually the

817
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 4: mistake's equal death. Like if you mess up while proximity

818
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 4: flying in a wingsuit, you will most likely die. And unfortunately,

819
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 4: I'm a human being, and human beings make mistakes. And

820
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 4: that's one of the reasons why base jumping and especially

821
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 4: wingsuit proximity flying are so dangerous. Because you are a

822
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 4: human You're gonna make a mistake and when you do

823
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 4: in this sport, it's gonna be serious. That's all there

824
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 4: is to it. And the best way to put it is, yes,

825
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 4: we can go through the list of mistakes, but I'm

826
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 4: a human being. I messed up. I impacted flat solid granite.

827
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 4: You know, I was flying at an angle. But the

828
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 4: people keep arguing if it's granite or you know, cape stone,

829
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 4: whatever it is, it's flat solid rock, right flats a

830
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 4: lot of rock. I impact it over termed at one hundred

831
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 4: and twenty plus miles an hour. Okay, I hit it

832
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 4: terminal velocity, which to bounce off flat rock at terminal

833
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 4: velocity is not a survivable accident. You will die like

834
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 4: I had a get ripped in half doing this exact

835
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 4: same thing. So you know, I impacted, And when I

836
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 4: hit I knew I was gonna die like it was

837
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 4: an unsurvivd It was so strange because I'm coming in.

838
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 4: I've set up a target. It's a balloon coming in

839
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,479
Speaker 4: to hit the target. I think I'm good. Everything looks

840
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,879
Speaker 4: fine from my perspective, and everything's looking okay, and I'm

841
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 4: coming from my target and I hit my target. But

842
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,399
Speaker 4: as I hit my target, all of a sudden, I'm

843
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 4: tumbling and I can feel my legs are crushed. And

844
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 4: I didn't even realize I was gonna impact until after

845
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 4: I impacted, and all of a sudden, I'm tumbling and

846
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 4: my legs are crushed and I can feel them crushed.

847
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 4: Like I'm like, my legs are gone, like I don't

848
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 4: have legs. I'm like, I'm destroyed. I'm gonna die. Like

849
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 4: there's I realized instantly I just went in. I just

850
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 4: impacted flat rock at terminal. I mean I was I

851
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 4: was building speed, like I was going as fast as

852
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 4: I could go, and I'm like, I'm dead. There's no

853
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 4: way I can live. And my brain instantly split into

854
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 4: two separate places, you know, And this is where time

855
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 4: distortion happens again, where time just goes and stretches out.

856
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 4: But this time the time distortion was even more bizarre

857
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,959
Speaker 4: because my brain went two different places. So one part

858
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 4: of my brain was doing calculations. It was all math.

859
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 4: It's like, okay, you're tumbling, regain control. So I'm regaining

860
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,720
Speaker 4: control with a broken wingsuit, destroyed body, and I'm still

861
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 4: I have to fly over a series of three ledges

862
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 4: or die. So my body goes into just automatic Okay,

863
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 4: what do you need to do to survive? And it's

864
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 4: just that's all being calculated. Okay, ledge, you gotta get

865
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 4: over that ledge. Okay, there's no lege. You gotta get

866
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 4: over that ledge. Oh you gotta get over that ledge.

867
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 4: You gotta You don't have the altitude to pull, and

868
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,879
Speaker 4: my brain is just doing this, and then another part

869
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 4: of my brain is having a philosophical conversation with me,

870
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:52,280
Speaker 4: and it's just like, huh, well, you're dead. It's unsurvivable.

871
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 4: You just impacted flat rock at terminal. You can't survive.

872
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 4: It's unsurvivable. You're going to die. So question is, how

873
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 4: do you want to die? Do you want it to

874
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:08,800
Speaker 4: be slow, agonizing and painful or do you want to

875
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 4: be quick? Those are your two choices, But you're gonna die.

876
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 4: So I could either pull and land and slowly bleed

877
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 4: to death while I'm waiting for a rescue, which I

878
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 4: know from experience being part of quite a few of them,

879
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 4: that if they send a chopper, it's probably forty five minutes,

880
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 4: maybe an hour, is how long it will take for

881
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 4: them to get me off that mountain. I will be

882
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 4: dead probably within seconds, minutes, maybe a half hour if

883
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 4: I'm lucky, depending on the damage to my legs. But

884
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 4: I was sure that they were completely shattered and destroyed,

885
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 4: and I was gonna bleed out almost certainly. So I'm like, huh,

886
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 4: I can suffer for maybe a half an hour and die,

887
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 4: or I could just not open go head first and

888
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 4: just be done with it. And it was an incredibly

889
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 4: difficult decision to make. It'd be like somebody coming to

890
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 4: you and having a gun and saying I'm gonna shoot

891
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 4: you in the head or the stomach. You get to

892
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 4: die one way. You want to suffer, you want to

893
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 4: be quick, and you have to make the decision. Am

894
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 4: I gonna suffer through this? Or am I just gonna

895
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 4: make it be finished? Because I'm not gonna live. And

896
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 4: what's interesting is that the part of my brain doing

897
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 4: all the calculations all of a sudden is like, Okay,

898
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 4: I cleared the third ledge. I had as much altitude

899
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 4: as I was ever gonna have. It's like you pull

900
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 4: now or you die. This is the moment. And the

901
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 4: part of my brain that was kind of thinking about

902
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 4: this is like, well, you know, let's see how much

903
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 4: time you can get. You know, if it's one minute,

904
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 4: I want it. If it's two minutes, I want it,

905
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 4: If it's ten minutes, I want I don't even care

906
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 4: if it's suffering in pain. I just want time. All

907
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 4: of a sudden, I realized the only thing that actually

908
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 4: matters in life is time. That's it. As long as

909
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:53,280
Speaker 4: you're alive, anything can happen, anything's possible. But the second

910
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 4: you're dead, that's it. It's the end of all possibilities.

911
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 4: It's finished for you. So I decided, you know what,

912
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 4: ye I want the time. So I pulled and I

913
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 4: had a second and a half canopy ride with line

914
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 4: twists impacted a second time, broke myself some more, and

915
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 4: then I laid there suffering in pain. And it was

916
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 4: like one hundred and twenty degrees that day. I was

917
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 4: like breaking records for heat, and I'm covered in black

918
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 4: and I'm being cooked alive, and I was white. My

919
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 4: legs were broken open and a blood was everywhere, and

920
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 4: it was just it was It was so painful and

921
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 4: so horrible. But I will say this, you know, going

922
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,879
Speaker 4: from a suicidal teen right who didn't want to be here,

923
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 4: who then went through that experience and chose life, you know,

924
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 4: and that type of situation, it's absolutely fascinating to me.

925
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 4: And I feel blessed. I feel very fortunate that I

926
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 4: got to a place in my life where I was

927
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 4: so content and so happy and understood that life is

928
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 4: what matters. That time you get, that little time you

929
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 4: get to exist is what means something. And you know,

930
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 4: if you're suffering, if you're in a dark place, just realize, dude,

931
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 4: hang on. You never know. You know, as long as

932
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 4: you're alive, there's the possibility of better things. But the

933
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,280
Speaker 4: second it's over, it's over, man, and it's over forever.

934
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:19,399
Speaker 2: You know, you get that, you said it. As long

935
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 2: as you've got that time, you know, give you a

936
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: possible all time.

937
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 3: Because that's where the opportunities possibilities can come from.

938
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 2: Right.

939
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that, mate, I love that. Well listen,

940
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 3: what a note to finish up on, Jeb. I love

941
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 3: your en it. I could feel your energy through the screen. Honestly,

942
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 3: it's very rare that you get that of experience that

943
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 3: with a few people, and you're one of them. You know,

944
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 3: you've hyped me up for the day now, which is

945
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 3: always good. It was great, It was great, Jeb, listen,

946
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 3: quick one just to quickly end up on what's the

947
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 3: next jump for you?

948
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 4: Honestly, dude, my life I could never jump again and

949
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 4: be content at this stage. I'm just a happy human

950
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 4: being who wakes up every morning stoke to be alive.

951
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 4: Anytime I'll go back. You can buy myself without a

952
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 4: bedpan is a freaking epic day.

953
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 3: So well, listen mate, love that. Thanks so much, Jeb,

954
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 3: you're a gentleman.

955
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 4: Thanks buddy.

956
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 3: My guest today was Jeb Carless. You can find out

957
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 3: more about Jeb's story in his book Memoirs from the Edge.

958
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 3: I link the details in the show notes. Thanks for

959
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 3: listening to this conversation. I hope you found jeb story

960
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:34,399
Speaker 3: as fascinating as I did.

961
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 2: I'm at Middleton. See you again next time.