WEBVTT - Summer series: in conversation with Amanda Keller 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:09.600 Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About Mastella Podcast. 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:13.000 I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your host, and this year I have 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:15.079 had the privilege of sitting down with some of the 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:18.760 biggest names in the country. Because when Estralia's celebrities are 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:21.400 ready to talk, they come to Something to Talk About. 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:24.800 We're continuing to publish across the summer break and we'll 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:27.880 be back with a brand new episode on January twelfth. 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:30.600 In the meantime, each day for the next two weeks, 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.360 we'll be revisiting some of your favorite episodes from the 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:35.720 past year. And I'm happy to report that there have 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:38.800 been a lot of popular episodes, but out of the 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:41.960 fifty we released in twenty twenty four, we've narrowed it 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:46.320 down to ten conversations to revisit over the summer break. Today, 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:49.760 you'll hear from self confessed overshare Amanda Kella in an 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:53.680 emotional interview that brought both her and me to tears 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:56.920 when we spoke in June. Amanda opened up about how 0:00:57.040 --> 0:00:59.360 life has changed for her and her family since her 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.560 husband of twin twenty five years was diagnosed with Parkinson's 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:07.479 disease in twenty seventeen. Amanda didn't sugarcoat things. She gave 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:10.600 an honest account of the struggles, the small wins, and 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:13.880 the radical acceptance she's learnt to harness along the way. 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:16.319 I think there's a lot we can all learn from 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:21.560 this insightful conversation with Amanda. Amanda Keller, welcome to something 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:22.240 to talk about. 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:23.760 I'm thrilled to be here. Hello. 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:27.440 I wanted to open our conversation by asking about something 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:31.720 that is really quite poignant. You revealed last year that 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:36.400 your husband Harlee, had been diagnosed with Parkinson's around six 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.000 years earlier. Do you mind if I start by as 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:41.720 not at all, how you're all doing, how you're doing, 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:44.240 of course, how Harley's doing in your two sons. 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:46.520 I've bought a tissue just in case, because every time 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:48.560 I talk about it, sometimes I'm fine, and sometimes it 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:54.240 gets a bit overwhelming. Look, Harley's quite remarkable. He's so 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:59.360 pragmatic with this. He just gets on with it. And 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:04.520 I've gone through a phase of being angry because I'd 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:07.160 say things like, oh, come on, stand upright, or your voice. 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:08.960 You know, I knew what was it, he'd been diagnosed. 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:11.960 I knew what was going on, but I found it 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:14.560 hard to accept it all and I just feel now 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:17.640 I'm very much on the path of acceptance, or that 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:21.680 radical acceptance as we speak about. Some days that's a 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.240 phrase that I'm trying to live and other days I 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:28.040 do feel it. But we're both on the same page now. 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:31.000 I think for a while I was kind of fighting it. 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:37.480 And as I said, Harley is quite remarkable in his 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:40.600 approach to this, and because of that, the boys just 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:42.480 get on with it. To our sons, it's hard for 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:44.120 them because I don't live at home anymore, and I 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:45.119 see Harley every day. 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:47.000 And was my son's. 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:49.240 Twenty first birthday, and I got very emotional talking on 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:51.120 air about how it felt to be going to that 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:54.400 without him, and how he is normally the archivist of 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:56.520 our lives and he would have done the audio visuals 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:58.160 and he would have done a speech and all of this. 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:00.720 I just felt wrong that I was going without him. 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:05.200 And then not long into the evening, my friend said, 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:11.880 has here, and as a surprise, he'd organized with a 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:15.400 friend and a driver to get him there. And I 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:17.480 still feel very emotional about it because I thought he 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:19.600 I know how hard it was for him to do that, 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:23.519 but how amazing that he did, how amazing that he did, 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:27.120 and in that moment, I think the love I had 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:30.320 for him and for our family. I just thought, he's 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.160 still him, and he is still him, and the other 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.360 physical things are going on around it, but the heart 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:36.960 of him is still him, and the brain of him 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.840 is still him, and it was a great reminder. So 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:41.840 some other people were shock because I hadn't seen him 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:44.920 for a while, but I was just so proud that 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:48.640 he was vanity free. He'd thought it's too important for 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:49.960 me to be here, and the rest of it just 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:50.520 didn't matter. 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:53.880 Did your son Jack whose twenty first birthday did he know? 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:55.320 No, none of us was coming. 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:59.240 None of us knew, and so it was a wonderful 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:01.640 rush for all us to have him there. So Harley 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:03.400 stayed for about an hour, was there for the speeches, 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:05.440 and friends come up to say hello to him, and 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:07.480 then he went home, and then you know, the dancing 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:11.280 and the rest of it continued. But it was so important, 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:15.400 and I'm so grateful that he appreciate the importance. And 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:17.320 also the fact he didn't tell me he was coming 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:19.360 kind of gave me a night off because I would 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:20.880 have tried to. That's my problem is I try and 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.880 micromanage everything and make everything all right for everybody, and 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.280 this isn't going to be all right for everybody. So 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:31.800 I'm exhausting myself. So the fact that I could turn 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:33.640 up without having to think about how he was going 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.640 to get there made my night so much easier too. 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.320 What an amazing twenty first. 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:42.560 Birthday gift, you know it absolutely And for him to say, 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:43.760 how could I not be here? 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:45.679 That will stay with Jack forever. 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:50.120 I think every time there's a diagnosis in a family, 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:53.640 whatever it is, everyone is often on a really steep 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:57.360 learning curve, especially if it is something that you might 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:00.840 not necessarily have even thought very much about or known 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:04.440 very much about. Has it been, to put it mildly, 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.640 an incredibly steep learning curve for. 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:11.680 You, interestingly only through living through it. Harley's a big 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:14.359 science head, so he knew the science, he knew the story, 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:19.160 but he chose not to be doctor Google. And some 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.760 friends at the beginning were saying, hey, here's some remedies 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.080 I've seen, and it was showing people at the very 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:25.800 tail end, and so he thought, I don't want those 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.400 images in my head, so neither of us. I've remained 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:32.240 quite pollannerish on this in that I haven't deep dived 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:35.240 on the medical story. I'm living it as it happens, 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:39.599 and part of that is choosing to be naive, almost 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.480 like taking the easy way out, because if you're going 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:44.800 to I don't know what preparedness does for you, apart 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:49.240 from panic you so probably to my detriment, because maybe 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:52.440 I should have been more prepared, but I'm learning as 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:54.920 we go, and neither of us need to know more 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:55.720 than that as we go. 0:05:56.000 --> 0:06:00.400 Absolutely, Gosh, can I just object to the words easy 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:00.960 way out? 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:02.760 There's no easy way out? 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:05.560 But I know what I'm like, and I'd be prone 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:10.200 to overthinking and panic and trying to fix things so 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:13.160 out of my control. And I saw a great woman. 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.680 I see this fantastic woman. She's a kinesiologist, but she's 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:18.720 a fabulous therapist. And she said to me very early on, 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:23.400 you're in a boat beside Harley. You can't paddle his boat, 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.400 and you take his agency away by trying to. Because 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:28.599 we'd had a similar conversation when my son left home 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:31.200 and I still want to cry about that too. She said, 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:33.840 you have to let his boat go, and I said can. 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:35.320 I'd be in the back of the boat, and she said, 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:37.160 you can be in the back of the boat, but 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:41.240 it's his, it's his shining light that's navigating it. And 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:43.160 it's kind of similar with Harley in a way that 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:46.440 I know I'm trying to I'm trying to make everything 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:49.839 right for everybody, and A, you can't because you'll exhaust yourself, 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.160 but B that's not what's right for everybody. 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:54.480 So it is that radical acceptance. 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:56.400 Thing of I'm in a boat alongside and she said 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:57.880 to me, maybe all you have to do is to 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:02.279 love him, and psychological that makes so much sense, and 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:06.200 that's harder to live by sometimes, but that's there the 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.720 thoughts I have in my head of trying to be 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:14.200 alongside him and not be in his face and just 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.040 let him deal it with the grace that he is. 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:20.320 I think you've just given voice to and experience. So 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:24.680 many people would relate to, Amanda, because that's I think. 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.520 While we use the word helpless, isn't it when somebody 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:30.120 we know is dealing with something that we can't make 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.600 better for them? And it is part of what is 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:37.680 so difficult, so difficult, these situations in life that are 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:38.600 beyond our control. 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:41.080 And I feel like I being selfish in not trying 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:43.920 to in today and not fixing it for him? Is 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.320 it okay just to be? And of course it is, 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:50.080 and he'd prefer that. So taking a step back for 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:51.960 all of us is something I'm trying to do. 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:53.880 Can I ask you a little bit? 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.480 Are you and Harley being married for a very long time? 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:57.720 Twenty four years? Yesterday? 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:01.440 Oh? Congratulations, thirty four years? And that is an amazing 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:05.800 innings And every relationship, every long term relationship, every marriage 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:10.960 has its chapters, seasons eras as Taylor Swift will probably 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:12.600 call it. I'm sure we'll hear a song about that 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:16.480 thirty four years from now. I imagine the different things 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:18.440 that you and Harley have been through, like a lot 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:22.080 of couples that you have children, you know, struggles with 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.960 creating a family. You know, they're struggling with infertility. Then 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:28.880 you've got young children, You've got periods where you're both 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.760 dealing with chaos at work or great times at work, 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.079 extreme busyness. I want to ask you a little bit. 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.240 As you mentioned, your boys aren't living at home now, 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:40.480 you know, the empty nest, this particular situation, what you 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:44.520 have navigated this past six years together with his diagnosis, 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:49.760 is that something that has forged the partnership even more. 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:52.800 And as a second part of that question, do you 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:56.400 think it's something that you could have survived thirty four 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:58.800 years ago, thirty years ago, twenty. 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:01.680 Four years ago. Found the card the other day as 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:03.079 a postcard. 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:06.040 Of two older people asleep in deck chairs with their 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:09.839 mouths might open on a cruise. And it must have 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:11.840 been very early in our relationship. I remember it used 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:14.199 to be on our window sill and as before we 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:17.800 got married, and I said, here is mister and missus 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:21.120 Harley Oliver, forty years from now at the old People's Home. 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:23.800 I'll love you forever beyond two thousand, because we met 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.320 it beyond two thousand, and I suddenly thought, we're at 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:29.480 thirty four years. You click your fingers and you're there. 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.240 And I take great pride. I don't want to be 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:35.160 too weepy, but I take great pride in what we've navigated. 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:38.839 And I do think in a way a friend of 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:43.640 mine used the word there's a certain exquisite nature to 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.480 the love when it's like this, an exquisite in the 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:48.040 way it can be painful to life. You've got to 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:50.560 lose tooth and you're pressing. It's an exquisite pain, but 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:52.120 an exquisite love. 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:54.200 And I'm really. 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:56.400 Proud of how we are, well not always how I 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:58.320 try and navigate it with him, how we are doing 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:01.000 this as a team, and the fact that we are 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:01.480 a team. 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:06.000 And so we said, Yestad on our anniversary, we said, aren't. 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:09.320 We lucky that despite all the rest of it, the 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.360 nut of love is still there? And there probably have 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:15.360 been times when you're too busy to actually think about that, 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:21.200 whereas we've really had to choose that, and I know 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:23.880 it is a choice, and I don't always express it. 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:27.640 I can be impatient and cranky and all those things 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.960 with it, but the nut of it is, I'm very 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:35.680 conscious that we are leaning in to who we are 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:39.400 now and leaning into all that this experience throws at us, 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:43.520 which isn't all terrible. There's an absolute tightness between us now, 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:47.240 and I'm sort of experiencing all of it. 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:52.160 Speaking of exquisite love, which was a beautiful phrase that 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:55.720 you just used exquisite pain to mentioned your sons. So 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:58.280 of course, Jack, as we just talked about, turned twenty 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:01.559 one recently and Liam is twenty three just last week. 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:03.800 So the empty nest syndrome I don't know what we're 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:05.880 calling it. In twenty twenty four, you may have a 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:09.440 much more modern take on it. How are you and 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:11.600 Harley feeling about that side of things? 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.920 You know, I think the preparing for it and the 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:17.480 imagining of it is worse than the reality of it. 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:22.360 Liam left to go to new University in Newcastle four 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:26.800 years ago, and I found that hard, really hard. And 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:32.880 then Jack he went to live on campus but in Sydney, 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:35.840 and I thought I'd never get used to it. But 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:38.439 Jack's a party animal, and so meeting up at four 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:41.120 in the morning and him getting home at two kind 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.800 of had a slight clash to it. So to my shock, 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:48.200 I found that it was okay. I found that it 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:51.559 was okay. They're both now in Sydney. They don't, as 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:53.679 I said, they don't live at home, but I see 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:55.800 a lot more of Liam than I used to, and 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.400 Jack makes a real effort to and talk most days, 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:03.560 so I feel okay with it in a way I 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.200 never pictured. The boys went to a school where they 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.440 had an experience in year nine where they go away 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:11.800 for a whole term half a year. 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:12.280 Pretty much. 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:16.480 I think it was they have an outdoors education for 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:19.240 six months it's a long time. It's a long time, 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:21.839 and it's when they're in year nine. So how old 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:23.560 are you in year nine? Thirteen forteen. 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:26.160 So my oldest son's in year nine, he's about to 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:27.240 turn fifteen, yees. 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.920 And I found that so challenging because it's the first 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:33.000 time I had to put myself second to what was 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:39.000 good for them. And they were allowed to make phone calls. 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:42.080 There's no email, they had to write letters home, and 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:44.160 whether they having a good time or a bad time, 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:45.360 you weren't in charge. 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:46.760 And I thought it was quite profound. 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:50.400 Because the whole point of it was that as helicopter parents, 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.720 suddenly the kids could prove themselves with each other and 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:56.240 start to look for camaraderie in each other and strength 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.560 that wasn't to do with your parents' perception of you. 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:01.920 I found it quite profound the experience that they had. 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.560 But I found that really hard. And that's one because 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:09.200 they believe there is so little when they go, So 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:11.920 I found that hard. And then the dreading. I thought 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:14.320 it'd be those emotions again when they actually left home, 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:16.960 but by the time they did, I was kind of 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.520 ready for it, and now I'm so used to it. 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:21.840 And now I can just go to bed early. I 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:24.000 don't have to think about it anyone. You know, Harley's okay, 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:28.079 I'm okay the end. So it's shockingly it's okay. 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:30.680 My boys are turning thirteen and fifteen. 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:33.080 You can't imagine when they're that age. You can't imagine 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:34.960 a moment where they're not in your care. 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:37.720 Absolutely, when you said six months, I know though I 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.720 was six months, because even a night feels like it's 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:41.120 so hard. 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:43.400 And I always embarrassed Liam because I cry every time 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:46.360 I tell this story. But at one point we were 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:48.880 climbing up you have to the parents go and do 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.200 hikes with the kids a couple of times during that 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:56.280 and they're really hard going hikes. And at one point. 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:57.600 Lim said, I'll help you get to the top here, 0:13:58.320 --> 0:13:59.520 and I had a flash too. 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.120 Was very first day of school. We're at the top 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:03.520 of the stairs. He said, I don't think I can 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:04.880 do it, and I said, come on, I'll help you out, 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:07.800 and I suddenly it was in a blink of an eye, 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:12.599 which swapped and he was my guide. And that's the 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.440 whole point of that whole experience. And I had it 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.040 in that sentence, just amazing. 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:20.320 Trying to teary through all of that. 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:24.960 Obviously, it's at that moment where they over take you 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:25.600 in height. 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:27.040 Isn't that weird too? 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:30.240 That is weird because we express love for a small boy, 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:35.080 your children not being weird, but you know, cuddles and kisses, 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:41.200 and suddenly when they're men, it's a very different physical dynamic. 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:43.920 But the first time he's in a restaurant, I thought, oh, 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.000 the waiters come behind me and it was Liam and 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:48.360 I was so shocked that it was my thirteen year 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:49.320 old who was taller than me. 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.640 I got such a shock. And then that just keeps going, 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:53.360 going and going. 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.000 I listened recently to a voice message that one of 0:14:57.040 --> 0:14:59.840 my sons had left, and I picked it up, and 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.120 have you ever had anything like this? He said, Oh, hi, Mom, 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:09.000 And I'm listening thinking who is this man? It wasn't 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.680 that boy's voice. So my younger boy, who's still twelve, 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.880 sounds very different. That's another moment in terms of mom. 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:19.200 And I've always tried to be gracious and accept all 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:23.960 those moments. But also I lost my mom twenty years ago, 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.280 and I want to say to her because I just 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:28.880 left home, didn't look back, and I thought, did she 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:30.920 feel like this and how I want to say, gee, 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:34.040 I'm sorry I was so ungracious, you know, And because 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:35.760 I thought my life began when I left time, I thought, 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.320 how dare my son's lives be beginning after me? 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:39.120 How can that be? 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:43.240 So I try and remind myself to be gracious, and 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.160 if they don't return with text or something, I think, gee, 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.160 you know we went overseas and never kept in touch. 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.120 Yeah, it's so funny, isn't it looking back at those 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:55.920 moments and seeing it through that lens when you talk about, 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.240 you know, telling embarrassing stories. A lot of people parents 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:04.480 are now navigating the oversharing on social media. Conversation for you, Amanda, 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:07.400 you've worked in FM radio for a long time. Obviously 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.840 you're one half of Jonesy and Amanda the Breakfast Show 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.920 in Sydney, but you've worked for really all of their lives. 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.720 Were there moments in the pre social media era when 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:20.760 they were growing up where there were stories that you're 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:24.760 telling me because everyone knows how that FM, particularly radio, 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.680 for their moments where you got pushback from them during 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:28.240 that time. 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.000 It's so interesting because that's exactly what it is. You 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:34.480 mind your own life for moments to talk about that 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:35.800 might that other people are going. 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:38.120 Through as well. When the kids were little, you. 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:40.400 Could say anything because they didn't know and didn't care. 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:44.120 But I did become aware that you have to give 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:46.840 some thought to other people hearing these stories. And there's 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.600 one in particular where and here I am telling it again. 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.920 But Jack's older now, and who cares. I hope he doesn't. 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.000 But I was going through a school bag and there 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:57.360 was one hundred sandwiches just squashed in the bottom. Week 0:16:57.400 --> 0:16:58.960 after we you just smashed them all in the bottom. 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:00.920 I took them all, put them on the table and 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:02.720 I took a photo and I said I should put 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:06.000 this on social media. He said, oh, please don't. And 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.960 I hate myself that I didn't. But I spoke about 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:12.880 it on air the next day and Harley said he 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.280 was driving Jack to school and Jack just put his 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:19.159 head against the back of the seat and closed his eyes. 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.320 And when I heard that, I just sobbed and sobbed 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:24.679 and sobbed, and I thought he deserves to grow up 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:29.000 in a house where he is safe from public scrutiny 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:32.919 in any way. I just felt so terrible, So I 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:35.040 knew he wanted he was learning guitar. I knew he 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:37.639 wanted this little I think it was a ukulele. No 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.679 one bought him a ukulele put on his bed. But 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:43.120 the best thing of all of this was not trying 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:47.679 to buy his acceptance, which was stupid. What happened was 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:50.159 when he came home from school. I just said, I 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:52.800 am so sorry, Please forgive me. I have no right 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:55.479 to speak about you in a way that doesn't make 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:57.760 you comfortable. And he said, that's okay, I don't mind. 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:01.080 Before he went upstairs and said Ily brought him at present, 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:06.160 so he'd said it was okay before he saw I'd 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.439 bribed him. But that was such a valuable lesson to me. 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.040 And now I will say, do you mind if I 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:13.800 talk about this? Do you mind if I say this 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.320 before I talk about stuff about them? 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.080 And how did the ukulele go? I realized that it 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:23.480 was not necessary in the end, because the good conversation, 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:25.320 which of course is what all of us learn, isn't it, 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:27.320 as parents, the best moment. So when you can go 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.160 I'm really sorry, I stuffed up. 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:31.080 I'm stuffed up. 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:32.879 I'm such an important things. 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:33.199 That's it. 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:35.119 I mean not to be cliched about it. But that's 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:37.800 such a gift, isn't it for a parent to give 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:39.040 a child, I think. 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:42.159 And for them also to forgive you rather than I 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:43.240 just would have held a grudge. 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:44.520 I was as such a grudge holder. 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:48.480 If my mother ever admitted any moment of weakness or guilt, 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:50.840 I would have just been surly about it, which he said, Oh, 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:51.639 that's okay, and that was the. 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:52.040 End of it. 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:55.800 Coming up, Amanda opens up about her new podcast and 0:18:55.880 --> 0:19:01.240 her multiple work husbands. Amanda, you're now also hosting a 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:05.560 podcast Double a Chattery with your best friend Anita McGregor, 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:10.119 where you talk about quote smart, dumb, topical things. I 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.280 love this because I don't know what your observations are 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:15.879 as somebody that's obviously been a consumer of media like 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:17.560 all of us your whole life, and then worked in 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:20.920 the media for a long time. Is that these conversations 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:25.000 about the serious and the trivial, the light and the shade, 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.240 as they used to call it, still call it a 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:30.840 newspaper world, is something that almost every woman I know 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:33.600 does in their own conversation. You can be talking about 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:37.680 really heavy, intense things, and then a few minutes later 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:41.040