Speaker 1: I'm Ruby Jones and you are listening to seven AM.
Speaker 1: One of the big stories of the twenty twenty five
Speaker 1: election campaign was the wipeout of the Australian Greens in
Speaker 1: a stunning defeat. They lost three out of their four
Speaker 1: Lower House MPs, including their leader Adam Bant. It left
Speaker 1: the party with big questions about why they weren't growing
Speaker 1: at a time when young people are more progressive than ever. Now,
Speaker 1: more than six months out from the election and under
Speaker 1: the leadership of Larisa Waters, there are signs of where
Speaker 1: the Greens want to go next. Today Quicky columnist Rachel
Speaker 1: Withers on whether the Greens can clawback support or if
Speaker 1: they've taken the wrong message from their defeat. It's Tuesday,
Speaker 1: December thirty. Rachel, thank you for speaking with me. Let's
Speaker 1: go back to the start of the year. Before the election,
Speaker 1: the Greens had their largest presence in Parliament ever, four MPs,
Speaker 1: twelve Senators, and they were predicting even more wins. They
Speaker 1: were riding high. So what was the Greens strategy heading
Speaker 1: into the election.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had their eye on quite a number of seats,
Speaker 2: but five lower House seats. Specifically was mcmar and Wells
Speaker 2: in Melbourne, Richmond and New South Wales and Stirt in Perth.
Speaker 2: And so they were on these really intense ground games,
Speaker 2: different depending on the seat, but all kind of modeled
Speaker 2: on the Max channel of Atha strategy that he used
Speaker 2: to wid Griffith knocking on like every door. They didn't
Speaker 2: end up succeeding in any of them. None of the
Speaker 2: swings are enough to win an extra seat, and they,
Speaker 2: as we know, lost three of the existing four.
Speaker 3: The seat of Melbourne an extraordinary result here.
Speaker 2: It's projected now that Adam Band has now lost that seat.
Speaker 4: The Green's got the highest vote in Melbourne, but one nation.
Speaker 5: And liberal preferences will get Labor over the line.
Speaker 2: They were running really high on the anti Trump sentiment,
Speaker 2: which they thought was going to benefit them. I would
Speaker 2: say it actually ended up hurting them in the long
Speaker 2: run because people flocked back to Labor I think. And
Speaker 2: there are a lot of areas where Labour's rote went
Speaker 2: up and the Greens went down because they wanted to
Speaker 2: go with the safer option.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned Max Chandler MafA. He obviously lost his
Speaker 1: seat in the election, and he had this reputation while
Speaker 1: he was very fiery, particularly when it came to talking
Speaker 1: about housing, he was the Greens housing spokesperson.
Speaker 3: The government is trying to pull the wool over your
Speaker 3: eyes and crush your hope that they're capable of doing
Speaker 3: anything real or substantial to tackle the housing crisis.
Speaker 2: I mean, how do.
Speaker 1: You think now the Greens reflecting on his style of politicking.
Speaker 2: I think it's always up for interpretation, but the Greens
Speaker 2: do seem to have slightly internalized the interpretation that that
Speaker 2: was too bolshy and obstructive. Labor was big on labeling
Speaker 2: the Greens as blockers.
Speaker 3: What absolute nonsense from the members, absolute nonsense, the leader
Speaker 3: of a political pay that stopped climate action the last
Speaker 3: time we were in government. On this side of the.
Speaker 2: House, they were pointing out in the election campaign that
Speaker 2: the Greens had voted with the Liberals on housing things
Speaker 2: like that, and so I think there was this argument
Speaker 2: that Max Channelmaker had been too obstructionist. I think it's
Speaker 2: also important to remember, though, that a lot of people
Speaker 2: still did vote for the Greens and very much approved
Speaker 2: of what the Greens were doing with those balance of
Speaker 2: power Senate seats, and the Greens actually did maintain the
Speaker 2: same presence in the Senate until, of course, they lost
Speaker 2: her into clocks two Labor.
Speaker 4: In the first couple of weeks, Western Australian Senator Derinda
Speaker 4: Cox has defected from the Greens to join the Labor Party.
Speaker 4: What you can't do from the cross benches make change,
Speaker 4: and being in the government and alongside the wonderful team
Speaker 4: that the Prime Minister has, you are able to make change.
Speaker 1: And this idea that the Greens were obstructionist, obviously Labor
Speaker 1: pushed that very hard. To what extent do you think
Speaker 1: that hurt them?
Speaker 2: With the view that actually the Greens aren't really made
Speaker 2: for the House. It's really hard to win lower House
Speaker 2: seats if you're not a major party. The Senate is
Speaker 2: where they hold the balance of power. It's where they
Speaker 2: get the votes. And it didn't hurt them that much
Speaker 2: in the Senate where they actually now hold the full
Speaker 2: balance of power. The government can now pass legislation with
Speaker 2: the Greens or with the coalition and that's it. So
Speaker 2: I don't actually think it hurt them that much in
Speaker 2: terms of their power in Parliament, which remains exactly the same,
Speaker 2: if not a little bit stronger.
Speaker 1: Okay, what about their strategy then of moving well beyond
Speaker 1: climate and environment and trying to tackle things like the
Speaker 1: cost of living, particularly housing, which we've mentioned gaza. What
Speaker 1: lessons do you think they've taken from having gone to
Speaker 1: the election with this kind of broad suite of areas
Speaker 1: that they wanted to try and push for change.
Speaker 2: I mean, they haven't backed away from any of those
Speaker 2: positions in terms of policy, but they're certainly not talking
Speaker 2: about them as much as they were. Some of that
Speaker 2: comes down to the fax Max Chaneler Maythor is not
Speaker 2: there anymore and he was the one doing all the
Speaker 2: talking along with the former leader Adam Bant. So I
Speaker 2: think you've got Larisa Waters, who's much more on the
Speaker 2: climate side of things now leading things. But I am
Speaker 2: quite aware that none of their positions have actually changed
Speaker 2: on those issues like gaza, like housing, like the cost
Speaker 2: of living. It's just that the emphasis has changed a
Speaker 2: little bit. I think.
Speaker 1: Coming up, where is Larisa Waters going to take the
Speaker 1: Australian Greens. Well, let's talk a bit about Larissa Waters.
Speaker 1: So Waters has been leader since the staffed the election.
Speaker 1: She took over obviously from Adam Bant, who'd been in
Speaker 1: the job of five years until losing his seat. So
Speaker 1: as you have watched her, what have you noticed about
Speaker 1: her approach?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say she's definitely taking a slightly more
Speaker 2: conciliatory top towards Labor.
Speaker 5: We want the Labor Party to be bold and we
Speaker 5: want to help them to fix the problems that people
Speaker 5: are facing. We will be firm but constructive because this
Speaker 5: isn't about politicians, this is about the people that need
Speaker 5: our help.
Speaker 2: But she has really leaned into rhetoric about we are
Speaker 2: here to get shit done, we are here to get
Speaker 2: things past. I mean she says the words get shited done.
Speaker 2: That's not me paraphrasing. She loves that phrase. She said
Speaker 2: it in some of her opening interviews.
Speaker 5: People elected us to get shit done, and that's what
Speaker 5: we intend to do.
Speaker 2: She's not disavowing what was going on before, but I
Speaker 2: think Labor is much more willing to work with her
Speaker 2: to get shit done. So it does feel like a
Speaker 2: bit of a shift. We've seen Labor and the Greens
Speaker 2: working together already on the environment legislation, which let's remember
Speaker 2: Sarah Hanson Young was working perfectly nicely with former Environment
Speaker 2: Minister Tony Fobisecon. But this time we're actually seeing success
Speaker 2: and we're actually seeing agreements being struck, and Labor and
Speaker 2: the Greens kind of talk quite nicely about each other
Speaker 2: in public.
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit more about that deal. So
Speaker 1: the Greens got some concessions, so protections of native forests,
Speaker 1: preventing fast track approvals for colon gas, a.
Speaker 2: Few other things.
Speaker 1: But I mean, overall, I mean, how significant is it
Speaker 1: that this went through? And also what should we take
Speaker 1: from the way that the Greens and labor worked together
Speaker 1: and the way they spoke about each other throughout this process.
Speaker 6: I want to thank those people who participated in good
Speaker 6: faith negotiations, including the Senators Waders and Hanson Young who've
Speaker 6: negotiated in good faith.
Speaker 2: I think there is a lot of people who are
Speaker 2: disappointed that this went through in the way that it did.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of Green's diehards would have actually
Speaker 2: liked to see them push harder and push for more.
Speaker 2: My interpretation from the rhetoric that was coming out, especially
Speaker 2: from Anthony Albineasy, was they put the things they wanted
Speaker 2: on the table, we had our life, they accepted them,
Speaker 2: and then we found the midpoint. And to me, that's
Speaker 2: actually how these negotiations should work. I often used to
Speaker 2: think in the last Parliament when housing took years and
Speaker 2: years to get through, is like, you're going to get
Speaker 2: there in the end. Just do it quickly, Just establish
Speaker 2: where your red lines are, both be fair to each
Speaker 2: other based on the percentage of the vote that you have,
Speaker 2: and just get it done. Everybody can argue they should
Speaker 2: have been more given or more taken, but at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, I think that's how we want
Speaker 2: our center left and left wing party in the Senate
Speaker 2: to work together.
Speaker 1: What did you make of the fact that Anthony Albernezi,
Speaker 1: who is well known for his dislike of the Greens,
Speaker 1: at the end of all of this calling the party mature.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was in part a dig at
Speaker 2: the coalition who were not behaving maturely apparently they couldn't
Speaker 2: even get their demands down on paper. But it also
Speaker 2: felt like a bit of a dig at Max Channel
Speaker 2: maythan Adam Bant implying that they had not been mature
Speaker 2: in the past. I think Labor themselves were acting a
Speaker 2: little bit more mature. For one, we didn't hear any
Speaker 2: Greens political party from Labor. They love to call the
Speaker 2: Greens the Greens political party when they're not getting along.
Speaker 2: But I also think the fact that labor came to
Speaker 2: the table and was willing to negotiate quickly and fairly,
Speaker 2: according to some was also a mark of maturity from
Speaker 2: labor that we don't often see. The thing that is
Speaker 2: forgotten is at the end of the day, labor and
Speaker 2: the Greens can only strike a deal if labor is
Speaker 2: also willing to strike one, and sometimes they're just not
Speaker 2: willing to work with the Greens at all. So in
Speaker 2: this case they were both a bit mature, and I
Speaker 2: guess I'd like to see more of it.
Speaker 1: Is there anything we lose though by having a quieter
Speaker 1: and more cooperative Greens.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I think as we saw with the housing
Speaker 2: build which stretched on and on, I'd say they got
Speaker 2: more in the end of that negotiation. I think in
Speaker 2: this case, with the climate trigger in particular, which is
Speaker 2: what environmental groups really wanted from this, they recognized that
Speaker 2: they weren't going to get it. Labor is not particularly
Speaker 2: strong on this stuff, and so at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, I think they can choose to negotiate with
Speaker 2: labor or let labor go to the coalition and produce
Speaker 2: something much worse.
Speaker 1: And how should we be thinking about the Greens and
Speaker 1: their popularity at this moment in time. I mean, I
Speaker 1: know there were a lot of factors that led into
Speaker 1: the election result, but you know, regardless, they're certainly less vocal.
Speaker 1: They're not growing in popularity at this moment in time,
Speaker 1: despite young people, young women in particular, becoming more progressive.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that they are picking up heaps and
Speaker 2: heaps of the young vote, and heaps of women in particular.
Speaker 2: The gap between women and men in the Australian election
Speaker 2: study voting for the Greens was amazing. It's like eighteen
Speaker 2: per set of women are now voting for the Greens.
Speaker 2: They're to eight per set of men. At the same time,
Speaker 2: you've got other groups aging out of voting for the
Speaker 2: Greens Jen and X a lot of them have turned
Speaker 2: to labor have kind of decided that sort of more
Speaker 2: center left policy is where they want to be. So
Speaker 2: there's churn of the generations at the same time. Yes,
Speaker 2: with the state of the world right now, the state
Speaker 2: of the climate, state of the economy, stay, with inequality,
Speaker 2: the state of housing, you would think that the Greens
Speaker 2: would be doing better than they are you would think
Speaker 2: that this was their year to win, But I do
Speaker 2: think they are a balance power in the Senate and
Speaker 2: unless a third party rises up to replace them, they're
Speaker 2: going to be there for a very long time. And
Speaker 2: so I don't think it really matters if they grow
Speaker 2: that much, and especially if the Coalition remains a basket
Speaker 2: case in the Senate.
Speaker 1: And so what do you think their biggest challenge is then,
Speaker 1: for the rest of this term.
Speaker 2: I think trying to have an impact and trying to
Speaker 2: be recognized for anything, because at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: people vote for them if they think that they're delivering.
Speaker 2: I was thinking before this about what wins they've had
Speaker 2: this year. They have helped Labor pass things like it's
Speaker 2: hex steps cut, but they wanted that to go further.
Speaker 2: It was going to pass with or without them, so
Speaker 2: they just had to fall in line. Same with the
Speaker 2: super changes. They would really like Labor to go further
Speaker 2: on those changes to high superannuation balances, but Labour's walking
Speaker 2: away from it and there doesn't seem to be anything
Speaker 2: the Greens can do when Labor are feeling cowardly.
Speaker 1: So Rachel, we've spoken about how the Greens have become
Speaker 1: less visible on some of those big social issues, you know,
Speaker 1: things like the cost of housing, of education, the cost
Speaker 1: of living in general. Do you think that moving away
Speaker 1: from tackling bigger social issues will end up hurting them more,
Speaker 1: particularly among younger voters.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think issues like that are what is
Speaker 2: driving the younger generation to vote for them, the young
Speaker 2: people who are completely locked out of the economy and
Speaker 2: housing market we've created. And I think if another party
Speaker 2: offers similar or better solutions on those matters, things like
Speaker 2: the Victorian Socialists, they might start to see those voters
Speaker 2: move away from them. And those are the voters that
Speaker 2: are actually sticking with right now.
Speaker 1: Rachel, thank you so much for your type.
Speaker 7: Thank you Ruby, thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: Tomorrow on seven am, I'm bringing you an interview with
Speaker 1: one of the authors behind one of my favorite books
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty five. Chloe Hooper, along with her friends
Speaker 1: and colleagues Sarah Krasnystein and Helen Ghana, spent much of
Speaker 1: the year reporting from the town of Morwell as the
Speaker 1: triple murder trial of Aaron Patterson unfolded. These three incredible
Speaker 1: writers were drawn not just to the story, but also
Speaker 1: to trying to understand what the country's fascination with this
Speaker 1: crime says about us all. What followed is the mushroom tapes,
Speaker 1: conversations on a triple murder, a book that wrestles with
Speaker 1: ideas about power, money, marriage and murder. My conversation with
Speaker 1: Chloe Hooper will be in your feed tomorrow.
Speaker 7: Catch you then,